>>145516312
For the older stuff, Arcade. He was just a dude who constructed elaborate death traps. Kind of by definition he had the heroes at his mercy, so why not just kill them? Fun for one or two adventures, I guess.
Stryker, and any of the anti-Mutant factions that don't have anything going for them besides bigotry. I like the Sentinels because their arc usually involves how dangerous and uncontrollable they are, and how "protect humans from mutants" is an incredibly malleable concept. But if it's just a bunch of jerks, maybe with some laser guns or a Mutant cure, I don't care about them. They aren't compelling because they're so clearly supposed to be wrong, and rarely have any nuance to their personalities or goals.
Over at DC, Lady Shiva, but mostly because she got wanked all to hell in the 80s. I'm a big fan of the Question, and I thought it would have been cool if Vic never actually beats her physically or truly outwits her, but at some point "figures her out", and is decidedly unimpressed.

>>145516564
I came into this thread specifically to say Arcade. I hate when this little shit sneaks into one of the books I'm reading. Who keeps pushing him?

>>145516595
I suspect he's kind of fun to write. Like you just come up with the most off-the-wall trap for the hero to be in, and have a sneering creep taunting them the whole time. Don't worry about how the hero gets put in the trap, that's just how the story starts.
Contrast that with, I dunno, the Chameleon, who's only real skill is being super good at disguises. You can still write awesome stories about him, but he can't really just start punching Wolverine in the head

>>145516614
Chameleon is an ex-spy, right?
I was always in favor of letting Captain America to borrow him like Daredevil did Kingpin.
It'd be also be more fair powerlevel-wise.

>>145516621
I can't type, kek.
What lack of sleep does to a man.

>>145516312
Fabian Cortez

>>145516632
>>145516621
That's a good pairing, yeah. Not sure if they ever fought, but Cap (and maybe Black Widow) trying to stop the Chameleon from pulling off some masterful scheme with a lot of misdirection could be really cool.

Bullseye

Would anyone still be interested in that rogue royale I had in mind?

File: Toad_(Mortimer_Toynbee_).png (93 KB, 391x244)

93 KB PNG

Every time they bring him back, its pretty much just to humiliate him again

>>145516674
Spider-man and Captain America could have some fun swapping things like rouges gallery's especially with Spider-man having history with Cobra plus Captain America having to deal with Kraven or Chameleon would be dope and Black Cat/Diamondback are similar characters so be interesting seeing how they'd get on with each other's heroic flames.

If you know of my interactions in these threads then The Hood, Mephisto and Morlun are some of my can't stands of most significance.

>>145516312
Mephisto actually needs to fuck off and die, he's literally the most retarded plot device, he's not even an interesting character in any way shape or form, his only point of existence is that whenever he shows up it means editorial is about to do some seriously retarded shit that will piss off the readers, and this isn't even new, his entire existence has been like this since day one.

>>145517264
One argument for Mephisto's existence is that if he didn't exist, Marvel's editorial would've probably dragged someone like Dormammu through the mud as their stand-in.
And I love Dormammu so I'd rather not have that happen.

>>145517289
it's not even funny how effortlessly cooler and more interesting Dormammu is as a villain, his design is fucking great and his gameplay in MVC3 and Infinite is dope, only good thing from Mephisto is Blackheart.

>>145516312
The Hood used to be interesting, his concept would not have lasted long of course but it was interesting.

File: Aaron_Nicholson_%28Earth-(...).jpg (243 KB, 892x864)

243 KB JPG

The Answer. God, I hate this piece of shit. There's basically no writing this character well with his "I have the power to use whatever power I want" ability.
>>145516312
Maybe it's just his proximity to characters I DO like, but I can't see hating Silvermane.
>>>145516564
>>145516595
The first comic I consciously recall ever reading in my life was the arc where Arcade had the X-Men in his death trap for the first time.
>>145516897
Cap fought Scorpion quite a bit early in his career. iirc, didn't Spidey only fight him twice before we went over to Cap for a bit?

>>145517715
that's happened a few times with Spidey's villains since Scorpion also fought Carol Danvers while Rhino was a Hulk villain for a while and Sandman was a Fantastic Four fiend for a bit. Though Spider-man also pinched Cobra from Cap few times in past/present and Boomerang was a Hulk villain before becoming a mainstay of his. Funny it seems most comic writers actually forget what the Answer's powers are and just have him show in the background at most.

>>145517782
>Scorpion also fought Carol Danvers

>Be Scorpion
>"I'm gonna kill J Jonah Jameson!"
>His photographer turns into Spider-Man and beats you up
>"Ok, take two. I'll get Jameson this time"
>His editor of women's magazine turns into Ms Marvel and beats you up
>"Th-third times a charm, Jameson"
>He's in a job interview with a new cartoonist...who turns into Captain America and beats you up

>>145517878
when you put it like that it's kinda fucking hilarious. By time 4 Jameson's gonna beat him himself with the Spider-slayer tech I swear lmao

>>145516312
I thought the first tombstone "arc" in wells Spider-Man or really just that one issue with Spidey tied up on the train tracks then he breaks free and wrecks all the henchmen's shit that issue was kinda cool imo. But then the book became the tombstone show which was meh and then gang war happened which oh my god no one cares. But I wasn't mad at that one issue

>>145518139
honestly current Wells has the special ability to suck all appeal or identity from any character when he writes them, woman especially. Odd cause he wrote a decent Shocker and Hydro-man years back and his Doctor Octopus year one comic I actually quite liked.

>>145517289
Dormammu already got dragged through the mud when he lost to GALACTUS
IN HIS OWN DIMENSION

>>145518172
Nah, that's the writers putting respect where it's due. Galactus isn't a jobber despite his current track record in Marvel. He's meant to be the end all be all in Marvel comics. Not lose to some random baddie of the month.
(I tend to believe when Galactus loses like that he's just really hungry so his powers wane.
Losing to the power cosmic isn't inherently shameful.

File: file.png (593 KB, 658x470)

593 KB PNG

>>145516312
Horde Culture is one of the worst villain teams Marvel has ever come up with, and that's saying a lot.

>>145518203
I don't have a problem with Dormammu losing to Galactus, but having it happen in his own dimension is just...damn.

>>145518216
the fucking bingo brigade over here, what's their schtick?

>>145518229
They've a team of genius botanists (Horde Culture being a pun on Horticulture) and use plant-based technology. The "twist" is that they're a bunch of bad-tempered grannies.

>>145518216
>Whored Culture

>>145518235
so they are a great concept immediately made into fucking shit by a twist/execution?

File: file.png (3.09 MB, 2063x1803)

3.09 MB PNG

>>145518248
I wouldn't call it a great concept, but yeah. They function entirely on the powers of shit writing and plot armor.

File: Black_Mask_0005_webp_92.jpg (744 KB, 1024x1437)

744 KB JPG

>>145516312
Black Mask, full stop. The guy just lost all reason for existing after the 90s. The one big attempt to reinvent him will always be an artifact of DC's descent into grim and gritty in the 00s. Any appearance since has either been stale and pointless, or a tasteless call back to War Games. Dude's in the same hole with Dr. Light, where they're simultaneously a joke and a pariah.

File: wcVgvE0.jpg (1.24 MB, 1924x2876)

1.24 MB JPG

>>145518217
Dormammu is only the master of one dimension, the Dark Dimension. Galactus himself is just on a whole other level set apart from Dormammu I'm afraid, for in the universe Galactus stands alone.

>>145518265
I may give the X-men flack but being beat by a grannie is just disrespectful to Cyclops here

File: galactus-trying-to-unders(...).jpg (158 KB, 640x960)

158 KB JPG

>>145518217
>>145518290
Even death herself calls him her equal

File: ds6vT.jpg (116 KB, 536x790)

116 KB JPG

>>145518300
>>145518217
For Galactus staves off the Entropic decay of the universe itself as he absorbs the lives of aging planets so no energy will be lost as he'll give his life to create the universe. He essentially recycles the materials. Like cosmically Galactus is fucking INSANELY important.
>>145518269
I love Black Mask but I totally understand what you mean. He's usually a torturing sadist piece of shit.

I do not care for Bullseye

>>145518290
yeah but it's HIS place

File: GalactusColor.jpg (368 KB, 1500x2277)

368 KB JPG

>>145519994
Yeah but the power cosmic straight up is busted as fuck. Even an eldritch demon god like Dormammu can be outclassed when you run hands against HIM.

Doom when written terribly

File: Lord_Templar_(Tremont)_(E(...).jpg (349 KB, 756x1140)

349 KB JPG

Got an obscure one for you. And honestly, I haven't reread these issues since they first came out so maybe I'd like him more, but at the time the Busiek/Perez run was on going, I remember finding Templar (and the whole Pagan/Triune Understanding) shit really tedious.

>>145516312
Judas Traveler and The Jackal

>>145516312
Dr Psycho, specifically the Rucka era
Black Adam and Sinestro during the Johns era, including ALL Johns OC's
Nu52 Darkseid is fucking cringe
Always hated Loki
Magneto has become a meaningless muppet who should just be retired for a good decade or two
Stagnant batvillains - Killer Croc, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, Man-Bat, Court of Owls, Bane

>>145518265
Fuck me that's atrocious.

>>145516312
>>The Hood

I got back into comics right when Bendis was taking over and made the Hood a big deal for a few years. I guess I missed his introduction because all of a sudden this guy was everywhere and sitting in the same rooms as the Kingpin or even Dr. Doom and I was like "who the fuck is this guy"? I wasn't even clear what his deal is, he had a magic cape and shoes? Then he seemed to just disappear after a while.

>>145516564
>Kind of by definition he had the heroes at his mercy, so why not just kill them?

Batman villains get around this with the answer "because they're crazy".

>>145518300
>>145518346
Could Galactus possibly DESTROY a whole universe?

>>145516621
>It'd be also be more fair powerlevel-wise.

Is Chameleon just a normal man outside of his shapeshifting? He's not really a match for Cap physically. And weirdly Red Skull already uses the disguise angle a lot.

>>145520956
With Arcade, isn't he canonically doing it for shits and giggles? Like, I recall something in his origin that like regular Joe's getting put in murderworld was no fun because they always lost and died and he wanted some real entertainment. I don't think he genuinely cares if hes successful in killing them or not, it's the journey, not the destination.

>>145517715
>the Answer's experimentation with powers accidentally opens a rift to the DC universe
>the Question has to take him down

Crossover writes itself.

>>145518300
She was just being nice.

>>145521037
Pretty much, but then we got Avengers Arena where he suddenly decided to kill off a bunch teen heroes just to prove that he could win if he really wanted to (and it didn't help that the Battle Royale rip-off The Hunger Games was big around that point).

>>145518235
Don’t underestimate evil grannies.

>>145520975
>He's not really a match for Cap physically.
And Cap is not a match for Spiderman physically. Which means that Chameleon is really out of his league against Spidey.

>>145516312
Kingpin for me.

File: 4d2664959ddf917ed6c6e30ef(...).jpg (81 KB, 400x543)

81 KB JPG

>>145521320
You think mere power levels matter to the Chameleon? He SCOFFS at your physical capabilities

>>145516564
Arcade made his money as a legit assassin. Murderworld is essentially a retirement hobby for him where he gets to throw people against elaborate deathtraps for fun.

>>145516312
Dr. Doom, miss me with that gay shit.

>>145521853
Wasn't he also a believer in fair play and would gladly let them go free if they win with no hard feelings? Far cry from
>I'll target children, that will show them I'm not a loser
Arena and its consequences were a disaster for the Arcade character.

>>145521894
I can't recall his first tussle with Spidey, but I know that's exactly how his first encounter with the X-Men went.

>>145521074
She called him Husband, an honor she wouldn't even give Thanos lol

File: 2023-10-14_02_03_19-Window.png (954 KB, 1527x749)

954 KB PNG

>>145516312
Great thread, OP. It's a common issue that doesn't get brought up a lot, fun to discuss.

This might be personal bias after a particularly shit story, but Thomas Wayne as a villain after Tom King's Batman. I have no idea how you fucking read Flashpoint and saw fan reaction to it, and then thought making him a fucking dick who tries to kill everyone his son loves to ??? was a good idea. Hate it if he pops up anymore. Worst part is you can't even ignore it, even though most writers/story seem to have, because it had to be canon because it killed Alfred. Also, most applications of Bane in general. He was originally incredible and has great potential, but generally is either frustratingly "all according to keikaku" with bad writing, or a stupid brute for no reason.

Carnage. Any of the symbiotes really, but especially him. He used to be fun in the hyper-edgy era, and as a foil to Venom/Spidey, or a way to up stakes/upset a situation. Now he's just got a convoluted backstory which only five symbiote autists can even track at this point, completely overblown stakes/story as a result, and is just pointlessly violent whenever applied.

Also, agree OP. Tombstone is somehow very frustrating now. Used to be okay, remembered him from the cartoon. Then, for some fucking reason, he got pushed hard. I have no idea why or what the special appeal is, but he's bland as hell, then pushed as like "HE'S SUPER COMPETENT AND BRUTAL AND ALWAYS STEPS AHEAD!", which is both stale and had no precedent. And then for some fucking reason, ASM kept repeating itself and bringing him back for repeat arcs separated by months and months to do it over again whenever it wasn't shitting something else up, and it wore real thin real quick. Can't believe he's apparently Wells' husbando and how he's ending his dysentery splatter of a run.

>>145518172
Galactus should trump dormammu?
I know we've had about 20 years of dumpstering the guy by shit writers, but Galactus is the real fucking deal

>>145516427
>the Smell My Finger Club

>>145522437
Dormammu is his own dimension

Galactus is just Some Tourist there

>>145518405
Yeah, he should be like, a putz. It's hard to take things seriously when he throws like a toothpick and characters like Spider-Man and Daredevil should see it coming and be able to catch it pretty easily
Like it doesn't matter if it's on target if you can interrupt the path or are fast enough to just not be there

>>145520970
100%.
He would not, but he could easily just make a nullifier. Motherfucker isn't just a giant hungry hippo, he's also the greatest scientist of the last universe. Fucking Surfer can make a black hole!

>>145522502
Bullseye is just Boomerang but totally serious, we swear!

>>145522533
Holy FUCK...

>>145521853
>>145521894
Wasn't it also stated that Arcade often traps superheroes because somebody's paying him to keep them out of the way for a while while important evil plans/heists are going on?

>>145522502
If we're doing this, I do not care for Bullseye's design.
It's the most uninspired and uninteresting capeshit villain design imaginable.

>>145522622
Yeah, sometimes. Like the aforementioned X-Men encounter was because Juggernaut and Black Tom Cassidy paid him to have a go at them. He was actually in the midst of plotting his round two with Spider-Man at the time

File: Trapstr_%28Earth-616%29_f(...).jpg (37 KB, 250x375)

37 KB JPG

>>145522639
If we're shitting on characters over design now, goddamn, I hate this bitch

>>145521568
The fuck is the Chameleon going to do to Hulk? His only move is something like pretending to be Betty and faking her suicide in front of Hulk to fuck with Hulk's mind.

>>145522282
Well they were never married so why would she?

>>145522290
>Carnage. Any of the symbiotes really, but especially him. He used to be fun in the hyper-edgy era, and as a foil to Venom/Spidey, or a way to up stakes/upset a situation. Now he's just got a convoluted backstory which only five symbiote autists can even track at this point, completely overblown stakes/story as a result, and is just pointlessly violent whenever applied.

Honestly this goes for all of the symbiotes including Venom at this point. He started out fun, and the Agent Venom version was neat, but now it's all dumb multiversal bullshit and it sucks. Why does everything have to end up there? Can't Venom just be an alien being with a grudge against Peter/Spidey bonded to a human with a grudge against Peter/Spidey?

>>145523026
That's because Thanos is a simp while Galactus simply is, his sheer magnificence of his aura and power attracts bitches to the point he created Galacta

>>145516427
this. so much fucking this

we might as well add literally every character from wolverine & the x-men except warbird

>>145521894
>Wasn't he also a believer in fair play and would gladly let them go free if they win with no hard feelings?
in his imagination. people who actually won legitimately just had the win condition changed

>>145518172
Galactus is older than the universe.

>>145518217
A dimension is just one of many that exists within the astral plane which together with reality and some other places make up 616

Galactus is top dog of 616 proper. There's little dormammu can do against that.

>>145523236
>Galactus is top dog of 616 proper.

That's absolutely canonically not true.

>>145523255
On sheer individual power nothing beats him.

Only two instances, excluding the shitty modern comics, has been Thanos with the literal keys to reality, and Annihilus in some decades/centuries old plan to get back at the material part of the universe, which was still a stupid idea because there's literally nothing annihilus could have thrown at galactus that wouldn't have been literally atomized.

>but this ewing/post late 00s comic
never happened.

Galactus is him, the peak of the almighty tiger force itseld.

>>145518265
Based granny
Fuck muties

>>145518265
Why is Scott such a jobber?

>>145516312
Maybe it’s because I wasn’t reading comics during his debut and the ensuing mystery, but Hobgoblin. These days, it seems that Kingsley’s shtick is just “Taskmaster, but also a goblin”

I don’t think I’ve ever seen so much Galactus dick sucking on this board.

Not that I’m complaining, I love the guy.

>>145523726
Reads perfectly in Dracula flow, 10/10

>>145523074
Agreed 100% and even said as much. It's a symptom of any permanently-serialized, neverending thing to have issues with bloated stakes, but this interests me absolutely zero. And the current writers seem to love it. I don't think I've seen much of an audience for it, either, but Marvel sure as shit is running it down a while now.

>>145524243
Most of it is nice design and him being cool in the animated series (no matter how much that makes the creator seethe).
I do like Macendale and wish comics brought him back leaned more into his military/CIA background.

>>145523391
They happened anon
They did happen

File: fantastic-four-262-009.jpg (193 KB, 698x1024)

193 KB JPG

>>145524282
He's just really fucking cool lmao

File: gbrio64hhlq51.jpg (268 KB, 1080x1440)

268 KB JPG

>>145518216
>>145518229

>>145525055
Accurate lmao

Mojo for me. Just get that fucker as far away as possible

>>145525055
I am choosing to believe that Shaw is not stifling a laugh, but holding his nose because the old woman is right.
Wash yourself, you stank ass hoe

>>145518203
Galactus's thing is he's wildly inconsistent because of how and why Marvel Cosmic is a fucking mess due to writers only caring about and obsessing over the Phoenix Force, Celestials, and Galan, who are the minor leagues of Marvel Cosmic [vs the Kree and such, who are the little league in this metaphor, and the actual died in the wool Abstract-Abstracts, who are the big leagues] and end up constantly getting retconned and jerked around because they want to have a big space thing happen but those are the only characters they know or care about.

Structurally, Mephisto getting shit turned around on him by Galactus in the specific way he did it works and it's a good comparison to Galan's similar conflict with Agamotto, where Galactus had no clue what the fuck he was dealing with and tried something similar to far worse results, but it's kind of a quagmire because much like Galactus, Mephisto is also a quagmire of nebulous shit because the Hell Lords are like that.

>>145522437
NTA but not really. Galactus is a relatively big deal but he and Dormammu honestly occupy roughly the same bracket of "nebulously stronger than a Hell Lord, weaker than an Elder God or near equivalent" in terms of the kind of "You're fucked" they bring to the table, and classic Strange deals with them in a similar context for a reason, just that unlike Dormammu, Galactus can be talked down or into leaving if you can manage it though.

Dormammu on his own is a bit weaker than a hungry Galan, but in the Dark Dimension you really want like, Full fed Galactus or the like.

>>145518300
That wasn't even true back then. So many random bullshit kludges have been attempted to frame X or Y "thing you know" cosmic character as death's equal and it's part of why Marvel Cosmic is such a fucking disaster.

>>145523391
Agamotto had to be talked out of killing him over being mildly annoyed at him by the rest of the Vishant. Galactus at his absolute best tops out at "A very real but moderate threat to the likes of the Elder Gods/Big Boy Abstracts" but that's under some pretty specific circumstances and he isn't getting close to the actual, "I'm functionally a deus ex machina for deus ex machina" big dicks like the the Demiurge Primordial or ToA.

>>145518172
Reminder that Dormammu lost to magik in limbo while HE was lord of limbo

Maximus boltagon. I like him but give him a rest he has been redeemed like eight times. The inhumans lack a proper rogues gallery because writers keep using him and he doesn't carry the kind of iconic status to warrant being the go to. You could easily slip someone anyone in.

>>145525619
>Galactus at his absolute best tops out at "A very real but moderate threat to the likes of the Elder Gods/Big Boy Abstracts"
depends on whether you adhere to the quasar/starlin canon where abstracts only act through avatars

>elder gods
up until knull an elder god wasn't anywhere on the power scale of galactus and the celestials, elder gods where tied to planets in pretty much all their instances and galactus casually turns planets into potato mush so they are easier to digest. Even with Gorr this was still true. Only recently have Elder Gods become cosmic tier with Knull, and even then the smiling retard of darkness got his shit pushed in at the celestial scale.

>vishanti
what issue? with that said, technically the vishanti shit higher than their ass lets them, because they all originate from earth

File: MIH_Maximus_Domestic.jpg (937 KB, 1944x2880)

937 KB JPG

>>145526092

I absolutely despise skrulls

>>145526247
This but Kree.

>>145516312
I like Spidey crime lords though. Wells however can't write them worth a damn

File: shiar00.jpg (56 KB, 393x497)

56 KB JPG

>>145526247
>>145526293

I'd like to add Shi-ar to the list

>>145526247
is it the chins or something else?

>>145526115
Doc Strange, Sorcerer Supreme V1 #43.

That said, the Elder Gods were a big deal well before Knull, who isn't actually an Elder God, they just got used way fucking less. The actual, for real Elder Gods are unique to Earth, created by the Demiurge who, in very short hand, is basically a magic ToA who gets used way, way fucking less.

Story goes that something about the character's permissions are weird internally because when the fag writing Wiccan tried to make him out to be a Demiurge tier big deal he was told to cut it the fuck out and pump the breaks hard.

Anyway the Elder Gods of Earth are generally placed as being the "big four" comparable to whichever set of Abstracts they've decided are in that niche today with a bit less jobbing due to exposure. One of them forms 1/3rd of the Vishanti with her son, Agamotto, and Hoggath, another is Chthon who bluntly makes everyone short of Knull in terms of "magic big bad" look like a chump prior to being forced to job to Scarlet Witch briefly for movie clout. He's generally framed as the strongest/2nd strongest depending on the writer and is literally responsible for almost everything wrong with evil magic in every universe, has been for awhile, as well as some shit like the Hunger Gospel that isn't even strictly magic.

Meanwhile, Set's a multiversal constant who went toe to toe with Atum back in the day for a few million years. If Chthon isn't the one with the most raw power, Set is.

The Main Four, Gaia, Oshtur, Set, and Chthon also created the four cornerstones of creation a long ass time back, all kinds of gonzo shit. It's just that of them, Set and Chthon manages to basically lock their own asses out of the main reality to avoid Atum going absolutely apeshit, Oshtur is a flake who fucked off to wander through space and then shack up with Hoggath, and Gaia is super non-interventionist so they really just didn't get used all that.

>>145526115
I mean Galactus isn't even a "real" abstract. later writers forget it a lot but he's a "Cosmic Entity", a classification that includes the Abstracts but is a bit broader. He has a function in the universe, yeah, and he's able to get things like M-Bodies, but he's common across universes, not near omnipresent, lorewise at least like say, Death.

He HAS a purpose not *is* that purpose, I guess you could say, which tends to be roughly the line between Abstracts and just "stupidly powerful cosmic entities." and is basically the only thing that's managed to stay roughly consistent about him.

>>145526247
>>145526293
>>145526466
REMOVE SPACE

>>145526668
Unironicly this the only good space species were all the minor ones and stuff that got killed off by the Annihilation Wave.

>>145526668
REMOVE COSMIC

>>145526466
by shit ar girls give me boners

>>145526685
Tbh yeah, Cosmic is kind of a mess. They really should have sat down with the last big event and cleaned it the fuck up. Celestials need unfucked because they're on their like 30th fucking retcon wank cycle, Death is still floating in a weird limbo of "who even is her opposite" because the writers finally just made Life and then refused to use her, while the Phoenix force keeps trying to insist it HAS an opposite but there's like 30 fucking claimants to that thrown and instead of fixing it X-fag writers have started just making the problem fucking worse lately, etc.

Marvel Cosmic is a disaster.

>>145526537
yeah, most people forgot know but early doc strange lore was mostly separate from marvel lore. If you read the whole comic you'll find a lot of egregious claims that never really got picked up by anyone in the 70s and 80s.

The "idea" of elder gods is basically fanon built off 3 forgotten pages of doc strange issues that got traction in the late 90s thanks to pirate scanning + internet forums spreading Deep Marvel Lore around. If you asked Starlin', the Silver Surfer writers or anyone doing magic shit in the 80s they wouldn't even know Elder Gods were a thing unlike say, Abstracts or the Elders of the universe (who used to be way more cosmick-y than their current iterations).

>>145526687
Fuck yeah shitter girls

>>145526684
I like the Megans and the Betans from the Godzilla Marvel comic.

>>145526735
Cosmic didn't exist until Starlin' Warlock and Silver Surfer Vol. 3. Before that Marvel ayys existed all as standalone

File: 0000.png (773 KB, 549x497)

773 KB PNG

>>145526782
das rite

File: Chitauri_11.jpg (352 KB, 1024x944)

352 KB JPG

>>145526247
>>145526293
>>145526466

I'll do you all one better

>>145517914
Nah, it'd be like this.

>superheroes keep showing up at the Bugle, I'll ambush Jameson at the doctor's office!
>his doctor turns into Thor and beats you up

>>145526775
It's also partially writers not really paying attention to the difference between "Elder Gods" and "Gods who are older, Elder even." diluting the identity. Which is admittedly pretty true to the Lovecraft inspiration where Great Old Ones, Elder Gods, Outer Gods, Old Gods, etc bleed together from worshippers and cultists and so on not keeping a strong hold on knowledge of how specific those terms may be, but it's also obnoxious.

>>145526862
They're pretty much Skrulls, so they fall under the first anon's umbrella.
>Ultimates uses Chitauri as a stand-in for Skrulls because, I dunno, I guess Skrulls are not edgy enough for Millar or something who knows.
>Chitauri are used in MCU and heavily revamped
>MCU Chitauri are brought into the comics
This feels like some kind of incestuous breeding.

>>145526735
I really prefer street-level shit and drama over any cosmic saga bullshit. The powerlevel scaling go out of bounds and it's very difficult to adjust the heroes after that.

>>145526971
Scorpions fucked if he tries to attack him at his barber lol

>>145527000
at least MCU/616 Chitauri have a unique look/aesthetic and I like that they have big flying snake monsters.....but where the woman at?

>>145517715
>The first comic I consciously recall ever reading in my life was the arc where Arcade had the X-Men in his death trap for the first time.
For me it's the one where he caught Spider-Man and Captain Britain.

>>145527011
It's why I kinda prefer magic, aside from being less prone to escalation over the years, the inclusion of wonky magical rules and such means that it can run the gamut with less trouble. Not *no* trouble but it means there's room for Blade to fight Vampire Gangbangers or The God of Vampires without either being too jarring because the later can have a special weakness or something without it being too contrived narratively, or Blade getting like a special anti-vampire sword or something from the vatican or wherever. It's just a bit more malleable in "plausibility" to my experience.

James Gordon Jr
Everything about this shitter requires reducing the heroes and their secondaries to blithering idiots just waiting to get dabbed on. His whole schtick is just taking a shit in the regular dynamics of the feature and declaring it the most clever thing. Fucking insufferable, and can't wait for Joker to inevitably make a punchline out of him.

>>145518265
so the Trapster could beat Cyclops by this logic then lmao

>>145522917
I genuinely hope the syndicate boots her ass for a better member.

>>145524282
MVC3 was probably the last time he was treated as a big deal

>>145527314
Yes. Cyclops has weaknesses like needing to breathe air.

>>145527345
I'd be happy for the syndicate to just disband at this point. It's served its purpose.

>>145527365
ah, a weakness not exploited by many villains oddly, Hydro-man would be more effective if he remembered that.

>>145527395
if they did disband, it has to be the messiest, hateful, no fixing bitch fight break up possible

>>145523139
yeah Warbird was surprisingly OK, she even made Kid Gladiator's parts seem not totally awful

honestly I could do without ever hearing from most of the X-Men's ever-expanding cast of non-characters and shitty ciphers, but I guess if I had to pick one it'd be Quentin Quire, the aged and out of touch boomer's idea of what an edgy teen was 20 years ago

he's like Dennis the Menace with psychic powers and a vague implied threat of rape, I hate him

>>145527365
>funeral for Cyclops
>Namor flies down in his panties, hasn't even shaved, looks a little drunk
>jumps into the grave and rips off the coffin lid
>"So, it's true then."
>leaps out, urinates into the grave
>"You were good at geometry, Summers, but no natural leader of nations, and you couldn't breathe water. Imperius Rex!"
>flies away

Mostly just characters who get wanked into oblivion for me

>Deathstroke
>Prometheus
>Onomatopoeia
>Carnage

Also any redundant Evil Speedsters for the Flash, each flash should have their own Anti Flash and that's it. Godspeed did not need to exist and anyone who saids otherwise is wrong

Also overall I'm sick of Harly Quinn, at least keep her off the Suicide Squad

>>145523391
Cry more, Bitchlactus is canonically mid-tier on the cosmic scale. Even Franklin Richards made him his bitch.

File: 5b71qs8r2u281.jpg (187 KB, 1063x1169)

187 KB JPG

Sentinels are complete jobbers that can get destroyed by Jubilee of all people, but I'm supposed to believe they wiped out all mutants in one future?

>>145528718
They look neat even if they have been crept as hell out.

File: Tri-Sentinel.jpg (253 KB, 759x656)

253 KB JPG

>>145528718
Id add an addendum and exclude the Tri-Sentinel. I mean, look at this guy! And he kinda seems outside the X wheelhouse like the rest anyway...he was made by Loki to fight Spider-Man, right?

>>145527011
Isn't the beauty of a shared universe that you can have both? Some characters work on a grand cosmic scale and some work on a street scale and that's fine.

>>145528718
them killing other non-mutant hero's is what I have skepticism with and show's the X-men sides sorta detachment to the greater marvel universe in both meanings of greater.

A recurring theme in this thread is

>character/concept that was cool at first but over the years has been warped and expanded so much they suck now

>>145529081
It was Kang/Ultron/whatever behind the everyone else and the Sentinels just did cleanup work.

>>145529348
I love the Kang copypasta explaining why he never goes near X-men stuff. Also yeah Ultron overriding/utilising the Sentinels just makes sense.

Symbiotes in general

>>145522917
She looks so zoomer it's painful

>>145526537
Knull is an Elder God?

>>145527314
The Trapster has the power set to beat almost anyone besides people who can turn gaseous or immaterial. He defeated the Silver Surfer once.

>>145530869
I know he almost killed Deadpool and had a revamp in the early 2000's with the ninja look and the gloves where he was more competent but beating Silver Surfer?

>>145530562
If your name is not William Baker or Morrie Bench, you put on a goddamn costume if you wanna do supervillainy.

>>145531045
it'd be funny if she and the og Trapster are in a situation that leads to her dying cause she didn't wear an actual supervillain costume.

>>145530603
No he's not. Read anon's post.again. Knull suffers from a common fuck up in Marvel where writers call a "God who's supposed to be older than the norm" an Elder God without realizing that "Elder God" is a specific title in Marvel, not a generic one.

Anon only mentioned him because he was responding to someone else who made the mistake and suggested that prior to Knull the EGs weren't on the scale of Galactus/The Celestials, which is a wrong assumption on a number of levels because canonically they no diff Galactus or the Celestials, and Knull isn't an EG to begin with so bringing him up at all was incorrect, because the Elder Gods are born of the Demiurge on Earth.

>>145516427
I loved the Hellfire Brats. It gave an opportunity to shake up the same old Hellfire club of the same group of people doing the same old "Bondage and Mask Club" crap. No, let's apply their infinite money and Sentinel development to something that we should have! We need human sized Senny robots walking around in the streets, Senny pizza delivery, HF Club brats fighting X men and New mutants for youtube views.
"You just want to see White princess fighting Kitty Pride." "I want to see White Princess putting Ilanna in a headlock, mudwrestling various Cuckoos, and whichever rank the tech guy was selling cerebro knockoffs to the Facial Recognition law departments."
"Alexa, summon Sentinels."

>Who's my "not this idiot again"?
Dracula. Not the classic Dracula as was just shown in Annihilation 2099, but the snow-white skin, long white hair, poncy prince of darkness Dracula. That's not the big D, that's an elf with a fake driver's license. If they're going to use the name, then don't make him a generic vampire goon.

>>145518216
I like that the writers are using some good sci-fi and inventive weapons when writing Horde' culture. Adding up some of their stuff, they could have made their own Krakoa before there was a Krakoa. But beyond that, HC has no reason being in the battlefield. They're more of a boardroom villain, but the writers need constant action to make up for lackluster writing.

Does Amanda Waller count? I am really fucking tired of Waller.
>>145522290
>>145523074
Venom really lost me post-Flash and only slightly because I am a spurned Flashfag. That cosmic god really shit ruined the one branch of Spider-man that I have followed since I was a kid.
>>145518269
Man, I adored Dr.Light due to his appearances in the Teen Titans cartoon and the 80's Suicide Squad. I hate that he is just the rape guy now.

>>145521853
When Chris Claremont invented him, $1m a hit was enough to find something like Murderworld. In today's climate, it's like on Hulu's MODOK where the $1m price tag is merely symbolic and he put billions of dollars into Murderworld.

>>145531742
I think that having -some- Flash Tompson adventures is a good thing. Parker gets SpiderManned and anyone who gets too close gets sucked into the malestrom of pain and suffering. MJ, you need to cut your dose.
If Flash had never had any extranormal adventures then he'd be some civilian jerk with no experience to make him sound worth listening too. He'd just be one of the JJJ fans who hate Spiderman for no reason, just empty words.
JJJ has reason to hate Spidey, and is experienced enough to be a worthy character to smack talk to Spidey. It's the suffering and effort that gives weight to Flash and JJJ's anti-Spiderman side of the story.

>>145532827
Flash doesn't hate Spider-Man though. He's literally Spider-Man's biggest fan

bump

>>145518295
I think the page where they say Emma has a stinky pussy is bad too, and that page gets posted a fair bit.

>>145534133
I don't think that swearing belongs in comic books, or anything really, but the what-word your p-word is so badly written that it's like playing a crossword puzzle by voice.

>>145527639
tbf QQ is the punching bag and butt of every joke of the WATXM run

The ventriloquist/Scarface
Mad hatter
When I see the next issue in the omnibus is one of those, I audibly groan.

>>145534188
I don't mind it in more gritty and edgy stories. Like I would think a mob legbreaker speaking cleanly is silly.
Even then it could be overdone. (something like Bendis' Alias is just painful to read because Bendis thinks characters saying "fuck" and "shit" over and over is so shocking and not at all annoying.)
But if you're gonna go with half-measures like this or censoring with the epic symbol swap, then why even bother? It doesn't add anything and only comes off as desperate. "Look, we want to be edgy so bad but the publisher doesn't let us".
It's pathetic.

>>145517715
>he can only have 2 or 3 powers at best
>the trick to defeat him is to overwhelm him
there, I fixed him

>>145534331
Bendis trying to have Man Mountain Marko is. Necrophile is such edgy dumb tryhard shit that I still think in-universe it's just a rumour spread by another villain to be a dick.

>>145527013
Gargan goes after Jameson in a public washroom.
>Just as ol' JJJ's rear end lands on the rim Scorpion knocks menacingly on the stall door.
>The force of the know swings the door wide open, breaking the lock!
>The Lizard busts through the next stall over where Dr Connors was sneaking off for a dose of scaly juice.

>>145535056
>Dr Connors was sneaking off for a dose of scaly juice.
Wonders how Conners would inject the serum without an arm to inject into.
The neck or leg would do I guess. It's been so long since I saw cartoons where they even had syringes.

>>145516312
not Marvel or DC, but i'm not a big fan of Overlord from Transformers, at least in the IDW comics. i dunno if maybe he's better in some other stuff or whatever, but i wasn't a fan in stuff like Last Stand of the Wreckers or his appearance in MTMTE

>>145522290
>Thomas Wayne as a villain after Tom King's Batman
based
>Carnage.
cringe

>>145535266
Gay

>>145529123
It is indeed what happens when you overpush a character, so the thread's theme is fulfilled.

>>145516312
I've loved Tombstone since his first appearance. You just suck, OP.

File: Wolverine_Vol_2_310_Ed_Mc(...).jpg (192 KB, 572x882)

192 KB JPG

>>145516312
Sabretooth, yet another victim of overexposure, despite not actually being used that much, coupled with spoiling the mystery behind his and Logan's relationship.
He's not so bad in low doses, but the longer he shows up, the longer the writers' aversion to giving him any nuance creeps in. He doesn't even seem to genuinely enjoy being a killer anymore. He just exists to be the resident psycho who hasn't joined the X-Men full time (in the last decade) yet.

>>145528651
And on the opposite end of the spectrum, you have this guy as a victim of writers trying too hard to make him nuanced, to the point he's a shell of his former self.
It doesn't help that every adaptation appearance he has is a retread of his first appearance. He's just tiresome now.

>>145528930
>he was made by Loki to fight Spider-Man, right?
Tri-Sentinel is part of Spider-Man's rogues gallery, but he doesn't exist to fight Spider-Man. He was Loki's revenge weapon after he was defeated in the Acts of Vengeance event, his mission was to destroy a nuclear reactor and devastate the entire New York area, killing most of Marvel's heroes. He was the crisis event Spider-Man got the Captain Universe powers to prevent.

Then some idiot rebuilt him and lost control of him to the mission Loki had magically hardwired into him, and he fought Spider-Man and Nova. About 30 years later Spencer's ASM run had the Robot Master build a lot of knockoff Tri-Sentinels that were non-magical and a lot less powerful.

>>145535157
See, I liked Last Stand, and I liked his first appearance in MTMTE where he killed Rewind...but that should've been the end. He should not have returned at all after that.

>>145525055
Shaw losing his shit in the back there is just about the only moment from this dumpster fire arc of a mutant sex cult I unironically enjoyed.

>>145528718
Because it is mass not class!

>>145516312
I liked Silvermane, because: a) old coffin-dodger, b) in his 90s and in debt to keep his body running.
Lovely cyberpunk pastische.

I also liked The Hood, because he had wicked cultured and becoming the mask thing going on.
Gimp mask didn't hurt, either.

>>145536801
>liked Silvermane, because: a) old coffin-dodger, b) in his 90s and in debt to keep his body running

Silvermane is the superior "old man" villain compared to Vulture.
In another world, they might have never created Silvermane and given the "tries to magic self young, fails and then turns self into a cyborg to stay alive" schtick to Toomes, and Toomes might've actually been cool.
But they didn't, and he wasn't, and by the time Toomes DID try doing deaging shit in the 90s, it was already decades too late, he was just running story beats Silvermane hit decades prior

>>145518172
Nobody jobs to Galactus.

File: sewn6tb5v61c1.jpg (98 KB, 632x960)

98 KB JPG

>>145535157
If we're bringing up Transformers, these guys right here

>>145537258
This. Those motherfuckers single-handedly ruined Transformers discussion on this board for years.

>>145527013
Which barber has superpowers?

Doomsday just plain sucks, he sucked in Death of Superman and he lost his point of existing immediately after.

File: F0OQwfbX0AImWC1.jpg (635 KB, 1324x2048)

635 KB JPG

>>145538152

>>145538308
I remember her! I don't remember her as a barber, though. Has she even been around lately?

File: Hush_0002.jpg (153 KB, 732x1204)

153 KB JPG

I hate that normies seem to think this guy is super cool when he's another lame villain shoehorned into Batman's past.

>>145538365
it was a joke. She's Delilah, like Samson and Delilah

>>145516312
>/co/ talks a lot about underrated villains, but what about villains who just make you go "not this dipshit again" every time they appear in a story?
Arcade, Mojo, Mephisto, any crime boss villains other than Kingpin, even Owl's better when he's more street-level supervillain than mob boss. But especially Tombstone and the female Beetle after the current ASM run.

Also any X-Men villain that they're pretending is a hero, especially Magneto, Emma and Mystique.

Overuse has really taken the impact out of seeing most A-list villains as well. It's hard to get excited about seeing them come back when they're around so often.

So, /co/, who's that minor, obscure villain who hardly ever appears, but when he shows up you react with "not this guy again"?

>>145521046
So he’s basically Amazo or Super Adaptoid at that point? I dunno seems kinda pointless?

>>145537145
It happened in the fucking dark dimension

>>145538567
Oy.
Why oh why, Delilah?

>>145527701
Namor would bang Emma on Cyclops' grave before he'd fly away, but this is otherwise 100% accurate. Emma would proclaim it the best sex she ever had, and run after him for more.

>>145538769
>who's that minor, obscure villain who hardly ever appears, but when he shows up you react with "not this guy again"?

Nitro the Living Bomb.

File: 1459471996636.jpg (10 KB, 400x300)

10 KB JPG

>OOOOOOO DETECTIVE YOU WILL FUCK MY DAUGHTER

>>145539388
Since you used a DCAU picture specifically, I can't describe how much I loathe that version of Rupert Thorne.
Repulsive smug fat fuck who's the epitome of the "I'm rich I can get away with everything" bullshit with none of the entertainment value of somebody like Lex Luthor or even comics Carmine Falcone who he is a stand-in for.

>>145539515
There's a reason the comics haven't use Rupert Thorne in literal decades.

>>145539095
After the Stamford Massacre, there should be a general uproar if he's ever allowed to run free.
Heck, I don't know if he even has any storylines after that.

>>145523191
The Marvel universe is Secret Wars + X years old, that's not that impressive.

Not to be difficult, but age doesn't automatically equal power.

>>145538365
>Has she even been around lately?

Most recent cameo she's had that I can recall was being in Swarm's Sinister Six with Squid, Killer Shrike, Trapster and 8Ball

>>145539515
that's my problem with caped crusader, you go from penguin having a fucking railgun disguised as an umbrella on a ship to fucking RUPERT THORNE
at least use black mask or something

>>145540819
Frankly I don't understand Timm's obsession with this character.

File: unnamed (3).jpg (93 KB, 309x512)

93 KB JPG

>>145539515
>>145540819
>>145540929
It's specifically because Rupert Thorne has no fans. He's a disgusting rich business man and a dirty mob tied piece of shit. Timm can do whatever he wants with him because nobody will cry NOOOO YOU CANT DO THAT WITH MUH RUPERT THORNE.

>>145541085
yeah and at the same time he's such a bland one note sleazy mob boss that no one really gives a fuck about him
most would rather have falcone if they wanted an old fashioned bad guy for batman to fight

>>145538820
Yeah and Bret jobbed to Shawn in Vancouver home turf advantage don't mean shit

>>145527639
>>145534190
remind me, does QQ die his hair, or is having pink hair part of his mutation?

>>145538227
He's now survival pressure to regular Kryptonians. He should start his own House.

>>145541516
Yeah but Falcone already has the perfect send off in the Long Halloween so it's the Kraven the Hunter issue.

>>145540792
That's an odd team.
Which Trapster, OG Pete or >>145522917?

File: unnamed (7).jpg (158 KB, 512x418)

158 KB JPG

>>145542004
I was mistaken...it's Melter, not Trapster

>>145539515
The best Rupert Thorne was in The Batman, specifically the tie-in comics where he adapts his mafia to the growing supervillain community by serving as their costumer and armorer.

>>145542141
this line-up would've honestly been great for a Superior Foes style story

File: Fabian_Cortez_%28Earth-61(...).jpg (68 KB, 472x678)

68 KB JPG

>>145516638
he is drippy tho

>>145541613
Dyed, but then he had the Five make it natural.

>>145543422
I dunno if there's enough star power for this team to carry a book like that.
MAYBE if this was the original Melter and not the Hobgoblin version, he and Swarm (being notoriously wacky concept) might stand a chance, but the rest don't really have much weight.

>>145544346
exactly why, helps flesh them out seeing as original Superior Foes most prominent members where Shocker, Boomerang and Speed Demon. Here 8-Ball, Swarm and Killer Shrike are most previously established but enough room to flesh out, delve into and also alongside the other 3 who have enough hints of history or potential for it to delve into.

>>145546145
Star power used to not matter in comic books. It was if there was enough reason to read the comic, was the main point. Adventures, pin-ups, humour, and let's be honest- sadism, were all what comic books used to live on before the "everyone must be an Avenger, or in a Batman comic" rules of today.

>>145542141
Who's the knock-off Batman?

File: killer-shrike-777x1024.png (1.52 MB, 777x1024)

1.52 MB PNG

>>145546937
Killer Shrike

>>145544133
Smug MF thinks he's too good for a codename unlike every other mutant and super.

>>145546145
>original Superior Foes most prominent members where Shocker, Boomerang and Speed Demon. Here 8-Ball, Swarm and Killer Shrike

Im gonna stand by what I said because I don't see how 8-Ball and Shrike are in the same league as Shocker and Boomerang (and maybe Demon to a lesser extent)
Shocker is Shocker, a perennial darling of comics fans, and Boomerang had just come off a well recieved tenure in Thunderbolts that gave his popularity a big boost. And those two did all the heavy lifting for the Superior Foes plot and to draw the readership.

>>145546878
shame, suppose could have a popular hero on the covers but then they just show up for a page in the actual book as a recurring joke

>>145548193
I'm mostly saying they are the most prominent and not fully even footing I say as a giant Shocker stan. 8-Ball and Killer Shrike have enough history and appearances to be worth delving into at least though bit late as 8-ball is buddies with Moon Knight and being a hero at moment which has worked for him, though Killer Shrike is very much an unsympathetic dick and you'd have to lean into that.

>>145547555
nigga got a magneto fetish as well

>>145547555
The character's name is "Fabian Cortez". He already sounds like a code name.
"I am Fabian Cortez, son of conquerors, and my brain is manly!"

>>145547555
reminds me how the Foreigner doesn't even wear a costume or anything now a days. Also fucker thought he was to good for Black Cat or Silver Sable, stupid fuck.

>>145516312
Any villain that becomes more important than the hero.

>>145538769
>Emma
Thanks for proving you don't read X-men.

>>145550709
any specific examples? cause honestly that describes way to many bad guys in recent years

File: unnamed.jpg (86 KB, 453x512)

86 KB JPG

This is a minor one but good God this dude bores me to fucking tears. I don't get why people try to act like he's Green Arrow's big arch nemesis, he's boring as shit. He's just a guy who's either slightly worse or slightly better at archery than Ollie. Atleast his son, who they killed off almost instantly, had the former friend turned enemy angle.

>>145526120
I love how he was the villain in that show because he wanted to end slavery.

Daken. No matter if he's a "hero" dinduffin or a villain in the story, he's always absolutely insufferable.
Court of Owls. The fact that they seem to have clicked with normies baffles me. They're such boring fuckers.

>>145550971
I thought the CW show of all things did a pretty good job updating him.
Then again he was more Komodo than Merlyn.

>>145546145
>>145548193
When did 8-Ball become prominent? I mean, he is now, but it's weird that such a silly billy is practically B-list but Sleepwalker is nowhere to be seen.

>>145551695
I didn't watch that but I guess a skimmed wiki article tells me they him a business guy. That's alright I guess.

>>145553078
His designs rides that fine line between goofy and looking cool that makes him really memorable. He could be a Venture Bros character.

>>145537900
Why? Never heard of them but they look cool.

>>145553078
Probably just fun to draw. He started getting alot more shine when they started just including him in more background villain crowdfiller roles, and I know if I were an artist and someone said "hey, draw more villain crowds", 8 Ball would probably be one of my go tos.

>>145550913
You pretty much said it. Though the biggest examples are Doom, Mags, Harley.

>>145553078
Because 8-ball's fucking awesome, his jet powered stick can propel manholes with the force of a missile and his arch enemy was a dream Alien. I am happy with the push he has gotten lately.

zod is by far superman's least interesting arch-enemy
he's carried by being played by terrence stamp in the movies

File: images.jpg (16 KB, 247x204)

16 KB JPG

>>145516312
I really got sick of this guy when I was till reading Marvel. I heard he was good in the recent Thor but I'd have to read Marvel again to care.

>>145554421
It is funny how Ewing actually managed to make Minotaur/Agger one of the better recent villains in his works with how unapologetically vile he is.

>>145554421
Plus he runs counter to the great Roxxon tradition of their CEO being ordinary businessmen of various shades of evil who die or step down at the end of the story/arc.

>>145554130
I'm waiting for Parasite or any of his non Zod/Luthor villains to get a film debut

Zoom
Reverse Flash
Hunter zolomon.

>>145553745
Harley Quinn is the worst cause she dragged a character I really like, Poison Ivy, into her inescapable vortex of shit.

>>145516312
No version of Tombstone will ever be able to match the one in Spectacular Spider-Man. I don't know why they keep in trying to make the comic version of him as a brute a thing, when he's objectively inferior and much lamer.

>>145520975
Cap wasn't always so explicitly superhuman until after Ultimate Marvel+MCU changed the popular perception of him.

I don't really blame modern marvel for changing him to match that expectation

>>145553301
Probably a combo of things
They were edgelord as fuck, turning into shit like electric chairs, heat chambers to melt you and big grinders to chop you up.
Whenever they showed up, you were sure to see someone you liked die.
Despite being a "Decepticon Justice Division" they were basically never shown actually exacting justice on any big name traitors like Starscream because of some autistic "we gotta follow DA LIST" and so they ignored big names, and were only allowed to go after them in flashback (where they failed to kill Shockwave), or if it was an alternate time line version (like they did kill Overlord, but not OUR Overlord because we don't have the guts to actually kill him).
And the identity reveal of their leader was pretty much "wait, who?"
And some people took issue with the leader being literally the "face" of the Decepticons because it gave him an Original The Character vibe

>>145557989
the Insomniac version of Tombstone was kinda cool

>>145556132
Insomniac wouldn't have the guts to have Darrio Agger as the new head of Roxxon in one of their games

>>145550791
It's 2024, why the hell are you still reading X-Men? You some kind of gay or something?

None of those villains named should ever have been given 'redemption' stories.

File: m0az2h49dnq91.jpg (208 KB, 1047x677)

208 KB JPG

>>145538769
Doppelganger. Granted he does look cool in that special 90s sort of way, but he's never been anything more than a mindless grunt. Not even a miniboss, but a grunt. He doesn't even have that dog mom relationship with Shriek anymore to balance him out. He's the definition of "that happened".

>>145559528
On that note, if she ever comes back properly, I don't think I want to see Shriek in any proximity to Carnage ever again. And if she's FUBAR, just destroy Demogoblin completely, leave her dead and let's just not bring her up ever again.
Fix it and do new things with her or just throw it all in the trash, one or the other.

I do not care for Carnage. Motherfucker should just stay dead. Also what's Zsasz's shtick beyond just "kill people"?

>>145558583
Why not? They don't have to go full edge on the twist, just say "evil Greek businessman who can turn into a minotaur" and then put their own spin on it.

How many kinds of Minotaurs are there in Marvel anyway?

You know who I just remembered?
Mr. Negative. Another in the long line of extremely boring "generic guy in a suit" villains that keep getting shoved down my throat because nu-Marvel thinks Slott's Spider-Man is so great and worth adapting.

>>145560604
>They took ma jarb!
...and steroids, I guess?

Ultimate Reed Richards and his becoming a villain because Sue dumped him to go be a slut. It was retarded, then Hickman gave him a stupid hat, and a stupid name and it's still stupid, and this is somehow still a thing.

>>145560966
I said as much to veer into the topic of the poor treatment of half the rogues gallery in second game

>>145564951
I don't get the vidya's obsession with Kraven killing other members of Spidey's rogues gallery.
It happened only twice, but it still happened TWICE

>>145565594
He's The Hunter and others have motif of animals.

>>145554130
I hate that it's forgotten he's Kru El's henchman, and that Kru El is the true scourge of the House of El.

>>145566141
It's in a name. Zod sounds better than Kru-El.

>>145565594
Slightly off topic, how many of the animal villains actually died in "Hunted?"

File: 1701564168088920.png (447 KB, 668x681)

447 KB PNG

>>145532827
>If Flash had never had any extranormal adventures then he'd be some civilian jerk with no experience to make him sound worth listening too. He'd just be one of the JJJ fans who hate Spiderman for no reason, just empty words.
Holy secondary...

>>145558012
What part of SUPER soldier serum mixed with Vita-Rays isn't SUPER? Cap's training is peak but he is working from a fundamentally superhuman baseline even if not by a huge amount.

>>145566527
Iguana died and stayed dead, Gibbon also had a dramatic death, Gazelle died but came back unexplained, Mandrill died but came back unexplained, Mad-dog and Bison are dead.

>>145565594
I don't get why you'd kill so many, including characters with so much potential and usability. Shocker and Scorpion especially are the ones that are the biggest shame to lose

>>145563930
Sue dumping him was more a symptom of his main issue, his universe being shit, rather than the main cause for his villainous turn. And while they are doing tangentially interesting things with The Maker, it feels like they're trying too hard to make him an evergreen villain the way Dr. Doom had been for the last longest.

>>145568461
Thanks.
Iguana and Mad Dog don't sound like too big a loss, the former being all around inferior to Lizard and Stegron and the latter because his whole villainy thing is tied pretty tight to Hellcat who never had a consistent ongoing or anything, she doesn't really need an "archenemy".
Glad Gazelle and Mandrill cheated death I like their odd ball designs.
Kind of a bummer about Gibbon and Bison. I have a soft spot for them

>>145568696
It does give Gibbon a good send off as the issue he dies in is about his whole life and him reflecting on what he's done before he passes. Constrictor's son was another that I think was implied to be a casualty but then he survived to.

>>145538467
Dini's work redeemed him in my eyes.

>>145558697
Retard

green goblin.

File: ASM147_05.jpg (133 KB, 597x585)

133 KB JPG

I've never seen anyone like Jackal

>>145568461
Gazelle from the Salem Seven, or does Marvel have another Gazelle?

>>145568509
He's just horribly overused at this point, and a constant reminder that Ultimate Marvel had run it's course well before Ultimatum but just kept going for years and years afterwards. If they wanted him to be an evergreen villain he needed a better design and a much, much better name than The Maker.

>>145568696
Every superhero needs an archenemy, no matter how unimportant they are. Marvel do periodically try to do something with Hellcat, so killing her archenemy in a Spider-Man story isn't a great idea.

>>145568881
True, people still just judge him on his first story.

>>145569223
We don't sign our posts here.

>>145569696
Jackal was great during the Clone Saga. Nobody's written him with that kind of energy since.

>>145569822
Yeah, the one from Salem Seven. Marvel only has one Gazelle

>>145516312
Morlun

File: punisher frankencastle vs(...).jpg (172 KB, 674x1024)

172 KB JPG

>>145551660
The one time I liked Daken was when he killed Frank, then he came back as Frankencastle and they had this massive brawl that took place over multiple issues.

>>145570136
In that case it was probably just someone later wanted to use the Salem Seven and didn't know she'd died, or didn't care enough to explain it. The whole team have been magically resurrected before, so we're deep into "it's magic, we don't have to explain it" territory.

>>145570137
Morlun was fine for one or two stories as Spider-Man's Doomsday, but it wasn't even making him a recurring villain that ruined him, it was tying him to Spiderverse and adding a whole group of boring OCs around him.

>>145570288
That's exactly what it sounds like.
I looked it up, because admittedly I've never read the FF issue in question, but apparently she was stabbed to death in Hunted and then just randomly showed up with no explanation in an issue where the Seven attacked the FF.

I don't mind when writers do that. Keeping the character in the mix even if inexplicable > shelving a character to uphold a throwaway death

>>145519994
Galactus is extremely powerful, and him jobbing so much makes people forget that. The combined might of the galactic empires and a good bunch of Marvel cosmic were struggling to stop the Annihilation Wave.
Galactus shows up absolutely pissed over Annihilus using him as a battery, then wipes the fuck out of the Wave, destroying a few solar systems in the process. Dormammu is powerful and even in his dimension, he's outgunned because Galactus' power is off the charts.

>>145570486
Yeah like when the tryhard loser Underworld apparently killed Slyde and Hammerhead but then they both just got better

>>145570486
>shelving a character to uphold a throwaway death
Speaking of this happening, >>145524815 has a point about poor Jason Macendale, killed because one editor hated him and kept dead ever since. Even before that some writers kept abusing him because NOT MUH. I think he's the only significant Spider-Man villain to really stay dead, even Doppelganger and Spidercide came back.

>>145570964
I think both of those guys have been seemingly killed a few times but keep coming back. In the 70s there was the Ghost Hammerhead saga, in Brand New Day era Spider-Man he got brought back from one death as a cyborg IIRC.

>>145571042
Hammerhead also got shot through the head by The Hood and Owl got killed by the schmuck to and both bounced right back

>>145570992
I’m happy 8-Ball bounced back from death though now it’s unclear what is the second one up to now or if he was the second one just playing dead but still using the mantle since that one made a big deal of hiding his face.

File: unnamed.jpg (39 KB, 307x408)

39 KB JPG

Does anyone actually like Hobgoblin?

>>145571297
He's a good foil to Norman and Harry's goblin as a pragmatic asshole

>>145571297
I do.

>>145571042
>the Ghost Hammerhead saga
kek he gets blown up in a nuclear explosion (Doc Ock was there too but he lived) and was stuck between dimensions or some shit but he was able to appear like a ghost and haunted Otto.

>>145571297
Read any Spider-Man thread here, he's got fans. A lot of Spider-Man fandom are older guys who started reading around the time of the Hobgoblin mystery in the 80s, he was the big villain of their formative years reading the books. He's pretty redundant with a Green Goblin around, being like a lesser version of Norman without all the things that make Norman so compelling, but enough people like him that Slott had to back out of killing Kingsley and retcon that it was his twin instead.

Macendale's merc villain gimmick was a lot better suited to coexisting with one of the Osborns around as Green Goblin, but we can't have nice things.

>>145571297
imo, he's one of only 5 acceptable "knock-off" villains for Spidey
>Hobgoblin
>Carnage
>Hydro-Man
>Stegron
>Scorpia
(And I'm considering a knock-off separate from a legacy. A knock-off bites someone's style but tries to act like their own thing. A legacy is using same name and design. Green Goblin 2, Beetle 3, Son of Kraven, that kinda thing)

>>145538467
I think that Hush (the Loeb story) gets more hate than it deserves. It's a 'summer blockbuster' type story that you shouldn't think about a whole lot and cares more about having cool things happen rather than a coherent plot. Sinestro Corps War and a lot of other Johns' stuff from around that time is similar and is generally pretty well liked.
Hush's appearances after the original story (Heart of Hush and Legends of the Dark Knight) were also pretty good and fleshed him out a little more than the one-noteness he had under Loeb.

>>145571297
I liked him a lot in TAS. I remembered seeing that some fag who worked at the Bugle became a new Hobgoblin which I don't like.

>>145571541
It's stood as an entry-tier Batman story for a reason, it's got one of the biggest artists in the industry drawing Batman, most of his allies and villains, it's got Batman/Catwoman shipper teasing and a new mystery villain. It drops the ball on both of those things at the end, but people generally enjoyed the ride. It was nothing longtime readers wouldn't have seen before, but it wasn't really for them in the first place.

The main problem with Hush in the original story is they teased Jason Todd as a red herring, only to deliver something less interesting, that Hush was actually the new OC childhood friend introduced near the start of the story. Since this ended up inspiring Jason Todd's later return, and later writers fleshed Hush out more, it's not as big a deal as it seemed at the time.

>>145571662
The cartoon Hobgoblin was Jason Macendale, who was the second Hobgoblin in the comics, but was the one who was active at the time the cartoon was being made. The cartoon version of him drew from elements of the first and second comic versions, in a lot of ways he was the best possible version of Hobgoblin.

The other guy you're remembering is Phil Urich, who was the short-lived hero version of Green Goblin in the mid 90s, who got randomly turned into a villain in the late 2000s and then became the new Hobgoblin for a while, then Goblin Knight, then Goblin King. Nobody really wanted him to be a villain but Marvel kept pushing it, he's since been killed by Norman Osborn and again by Normie Osborn, both as Red Goblin.

>>145571777
I'm working my way through Classic Spidey now, so maybe this will make more sense when I get to this point in the story, but Macendale was also the first Jack-o-Lantern, right? I don't get why he wouldn't just stick with the identity he crafted himself instead of just dropping it to steal someone else's.

>>145571777
>Nobody really wanted him to be a villain but Marvel kept pushing it
I still don't get why. Having a heroic Goblin is cool and he was one of the best characters in Spider-Girl.

>>145571909
In story it's because it's a "bigger" and higher profile identity. In real life it was a business decision. The behind the scenes details of the Hobgoblin mystery is a long story that's been well-documented many, many times, and without spoiling things too much for you, between several changes of writer they ended up in a situation where the only viable suspect they had was a character who'd recently been killed, and they wanted someone to take over as the new Hobgoblin immediately.

>>145571777
Was he rebooted or something? The one I am thinking of seemed to be too young to have been a hero version of Green Goblin in the 90s. He had a flaming sword and seemed like a petulant child.

>>145572115
Chalk it up to Slott being a hack who only knows how to write two types of villains: generically evil bland bad guy and equally generic cackling Joker wannabe with none of the traits that make such a villain cool or fun to read.
His Urich was the latter.

>>145572115
He was a teenager in the 90s, so he was a young man by the 2010s. Passage of time and aging of characters in comics is weird and you just have to go with it.

Fuck it, you just bothered the old wound. A bit of a ramble incoming.
Phil Urich was a teen hero who was exposed to Goblin formula and had a mask that activated his abilities. He was actually a pretty decent guy and even had Liz' approval to redeem Harry's legacy once he saved her and her son.
His stint as a hero ended when his mask got destroyed by a Sentinel IIRC.
They tried to make him evil out of nowhere in The Loners (which was also pretty fucking stupid by the way, but 2000s comics are ) for some reason.
And then comes Slott. His thought process began and ended at "Phil and Peter both have an Uncle Ben, bet I'd look real clever if I make Phil a Spider-Man villain". Like you can feel Slott the fat fuck rubbing his ego there. So now Phil is a boring bargain bin version of all the evil Goblins with nothing that's really unique about him and eventually treated like a joke because everybody understands that other evil Goblin is objectively better.

>>145572405
*every other evil Goblin

>>145547101
more like Killer SHITE

>>145570288
Spiderverse and "Spider-Totems" were a mistake.

>>145572572
How else do you make sense of Wasp's instinctual dislike of Spider-Man?

>>145572709
Jan is over-committing to her insect gimmick and truly believes wasps and spiders are natural enemies.

>>145572709
She heard him call her outfit designs bad once and uses the instinctual thing as an excuse

File: Solem_29_from_Wolverine_V(...).png (526 KB, 506x608)

526 KB PNG

>>145516312
>villains who just make you go "not this dipshit again"
Oh man I got a list
>Crossbones
>Post Avengers Arena Arcade
>Purple Man
>Screwball (almost ruined Spiderman 1 for me)
>Pre Ewing Darrio Aggar
>Impossible Man
>Hellfire Kids Klub
>Henry Gyrich (rest in piss faggot)
>Thanos
>Modern Carnage
>Solem
God Solem sucked so much and I think Percy knew it so he fucked right off early on

>>145571494
Scorpia getting a push after her top tier redesign in Evil that men do was really nice

>>145516897
>Kraven
The fact that Kraven only went up against Black Panther like maybe once is a crime it's such an obvious match up

>>145572882
I do find it interesting of all Gruenwalds villains that Crossbones is the one modern writers treat well, Madcap also got some solid treatment to.

>>145572935
yeah it does seem like an obvious matchup that'd be a lot of fun, it's like how Shocker has tried to steal vibranium twice but never got his hands on any to use in his vibro-shock or costume.

>>145522282
Remember Deadpool, the Thing and Rick Jones have all fucked Death while Thanos can never get her attention

>>145573053
I can't believe Ben and Rick both cheated on their wives like that.

File: RCO019_1623845854 (2).jpg (29 KB, 233x345)

29 KB JPG

>>145527701
>>"You were good at geometry, Summers, but no natural leader of nations, and you couldn't breathe water. Imperius Rex!"
>>flies away

>>145535992
He was used pretty damn well in Sabertooth/Xiles and Sabertooth War but I'm still kinda mad he got un-inverted. Weapon X was one of the best face turns I've ever seen

>>145570270
God the assbeating Remierder wrote and Moore drew for that little faggot was raw catharsis

>>145571494
>>Scorpia
You say that cuz you ship her with Shocker

File: Doomsday_Clock_Vol_1_5_Te(...).png (1.19 MB, 688x1044)

1.19 MB PNG

>>145516312
not sorry

File: 7233987-title.jpg (116 KB, 526x744)

116 KB JPG

>>145572405
Oh yeah I fucking HATED Phil Urich Hobgoblin looked like a tryhard little fuck with the with the wings and flaming sword and Joker personality

File: h8D374CA0.jfif.jpg (71 KB, 640x367)

71 KB JPG

>>145572970
>treat well
Lol lmao dude is a fucking jobbing faggot, constantly getting humiliated

>>145573067
Ben and Alicia were broken up at the time and Marlo IS Death right now

>>145573444
you are using Deadpool as an example though, barely anyone gets treated well there like Batroc or Trapster.

>>145573338
yes but also she's genuinely a really fun character and always a joy to see pop up in comics.

File: 26.jpg (2.06 MB, 1988x3056)

2.06 MB JPG

>>145573480
He just got his ass beat by Electra and shot by Nu-Punisher. Fucker didn't even touch her the entire fight

>>145573562
to be fair characters seem to job out to Elektra inexplicably like when Serpent Society got beat by her. Also Mysterio once tricked a bunch of people into shooting him, I recall Thunderbolts gave him powers that he lost in a fight with Cap in some river.

>>145573622
Yeah but Crossbones is THE designated jobber, the last time he's been even close to being a thread was in Bunn's Venom every other showing is him getting his ass beat. Granted what are you gonna expect from a dude who's backstory is "Nazi rapist"