https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/oct/26/fandom-has-toxified-the-world-watchmen-author-alan-moore-on-superheroes-comicsgate-and-trumphttps://archive.is/okYw8>‘Fandom has toxified the world’: Watchmen author Alan Moore on superheroes, Comicsgate and Trump>Enthusiasm can be a productive force for good, but our culture has rapidly become a fan-based landscape that the rest of us are merely living in>About a decade ago, I ventured my opinion that the adult multitudes queueing for superhero movies were potentially an indicator of emotional arrest, which could have worrying political and social implications. Since at that time Brexit, Donald Trump and fascist populism hadn’t happened yet, my evidently crazy diatribe was largely met with outrage from the fan community, some of whom angrily demanded I be extradited to the US and made to stand trial for my crimes against superhumanity – which I felt didn’t necessarily disprove my allegations.>Ten years on, let me make my position clear: I believe that fandom is a wonderful and vital organ of contemporary culture, without which that culture ultimately stagnates, atrophies and dies. At the same time, I’m sure that fandom is sometimes a grotesque blight that poisons the society surrounding it with its mean-spirited obsessions and ridiculous, unearned sense of entitlement. Perhaps this statement still requires some breaking down.
>>146107248>Concerning the word “fan”, I first encountered this contraction of “fanatic” during childhood, in a television documentary on the phenomenon. All I remember is the weary spouse of a woman devoted to the late Jim Reeves, sitting in a family home that had become a mausoleum of memorabilia, and mournfully accepting that his wife had only married him because his name happened to be James Reeves. Soon after that, the word passed into common usage, although only in the milder sense of somebody quite liking something, and without the connotations of a person listening to Distant Drums on endless replay with the curtains drawn, or a cultist running wild-eyed from the treeline waving a machete. “Fan”, then, meant merely “enthusiast”, but sounded less Edwardian.>Quite liking comics, aged 14 I thus became a comics fan with my discovery of British fandom, which was then still gummy-eyed and fresh out of the egg. The first convention I attended in London, in the basement rooms of a Southampton Row hotel in 1969, was tiny and inspiring. The attenders barely totalled a three-digit number, almost all of them some few years short of legal drinking age. The comics companies, having no monetary interest in a handful of penniless teenagers, went blissfully unrepresented, and the only industry celebrity that I recall was the sublime and sweetly unassuming genius Frank Bellamy, passing Dan Dare or Garth originals around, appearing wonderstruck that anyone had heard of him. The only thing uniting the assembly was its passion for an undervalued storytelling medium and, for the record, the consensus verdict of the gathered 15-year-old cognoscenti was that costumed musclemen were the main obstacle preventing adult audiences from taking comics seriously.
>>146107257>Of that hardly-a-hundred schoolkids, office boys and junior librarians, the great majority were actively involved in their pursuit, publishing or contributing to a variety of – for the most part – poorly duplicated fanzines, or else going on to work professionally in the field, such as Kevin O’Neill, Steve Moore, Steve Parkhouse or Jim Baikie, all of whom were downstairs at the Waverley hotel that weekend, keen to elevate the medium that they loved, rather than passively complain about whichever title or creator had particularly let them down that month. Of course, this was the 1960s and the same amateur energy seemed to be everywhere, spawning an underground press, Arts Lab publications and a messy, marvellous array of poetry or music fanzines that were the material fabric of that era’s counterculture; flimsy pamphlets as important and innovative today as they were then, although considerably more expensive, trust me.>Soon thereafter, caught up in the rush of adolescent life, I drifted out of touch with comic books and their attendant fandom, only returning eight years later when I was commencing work as a professional in that fondly remembered field, to find it greatly altered. Bigger, more commercial, and although there were still interesting fanzines and some fine, committed people, I detected the beginnings of a tendency to fetishise a work’s creator rather than simply appreciate the work itself, as if artists and writers were themselves part of the costumed entertainment. Never having sought a pop celebrity relationship with readers, I withdrew by stages from the social side of comics, acquiring my standing as a furious, unfathomable hermit in the process. And when I looked back, after an internet and some few decades, fandom was a very different animal.
>>146107273>An older animal for one thing, with a median age in its late 40s, fed, presumably, by a nostalgia that its energetic predecessor was too young to suffer from. And while the vulgar comic story was originally proffered solely to the working classes, soaring retail prices had precluded any audience save the more affluent; had gentrified a previously bustling and lively cultural slum neighbourhood. This boost in fandom’s age and status possibly explains its current sense of privilege, its tendency to carp and cavil rather than contribute or create. I speak only of comics fandom here, but have gained the impression that this reflexive belligerence – most usually from middle-aged white male conservatives – is now a part of many fan communities. My 14-year-old grandson tells me older Pokémon aficionados can display the same febrile disgruntlement. Is this a case of those unwilling to outgrow childhood enthusiasms, possibly because these anchor them to happier and less complex times, who now feel they should be sole arbiters of their pursuit?>There are, of course, entirely benign fandoms, networks of cooperative individuals who quite like the same thing, can chat with others sharing the same pastime and, importantly, provide support for one another in difficult times. These healthy subcultures, however, are less likely to impact on society in the same way that the more strident and presumptuous fandoms have managed. Unnervingly rapidly, our culture has become a fan-based landscape that the rest of us are merely living in. Our entertainments may be cancelled prematurely through an adverse fan reaction, and we may endure largely misogynist crusades such as Gamergate or Comicsgate from those who think “gate” means “conspiracy”, and that Nixon’s disgrace was predicated on a plot involving water, but this is hardly the full extent to which fan attitudes have toxified the world surrounding us, most obviously in our politics.
>>146107248>Alan MooreTriggering /co/ 101.
>>146107284>Elections that decide the fate of millions are conducted in an atmosphere more suited to evictions on I’m a Celebrity …, in which contestants who are insufficiently amusing are removed from office. Saleability, not substance, is the issue. Those who vote for Donald Trump or Boris Johnson seem less moved by policy or prior accomplishment than by how much they’ve enjoyed the performances on The Apprentice or Have I Got News for You. And throughout the UK, we’re now familiar with what a Stephen Yaxley-Lennon fan convention looks like.>An enthusiasm that is fertile and productive can enrich life and society, just as displacing personal frustrations into venomous tirades about your boyhood hobby can devalue them. Quite liking something is OK. You don’t need the machete or the megaphone.>Candidly, for my part, readers would have always been more than sufficient.
>>146107248He's always right
>begins bitching about fandom>somehow turns it into a trump thingok
>>146107248You can't take a man seriously who has a long beard. You know he stinks and has disgusting sexual fetishes.
>>146107248Reminder Alan Moore was pro-IRA until the Irish started rioting over Muslims stabbing grade schoolers.
>>146107346Source?
>>146107287I think a lot of people on /co/ would agree with him in many places in this article.>This boost in fandom’s age and status possibly explains its current sense of privilege, its tendency to carp and cavil rather than contribute or create.
>>146107325I mean it is just his general belief, albeit from a left wing perspective, that culture is going to shit and driving everything down with it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMvl6G80DUQ
>>146107248Extremely based as always. Moore understands that the average person is a retard.>>146107369Doesn't matter because most people on /co/mblr fall for the kiwifarms psyops.
>>146107248>b-b-blame the straight white guys and call them chuds!!!There hasn’t been a decent media property in 15 years because of women, non-whites and gays and this dude blames the people that haven’t been pandered to in well over a decade for that fact. I’m so sick of this fat cock gobbling cuckold.
>>146107248>>146107257>>146107273>>146107284Didn't read, why should I care
>>146107248Wake me up when he pens and makes good on a suicide note.
>believes in magic and worships a snakeopinion discarded
>>146107369>its tendency to carp and cavilDude talks like a fag pseud
>all these posters proving him right again
>>146107487https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8P8WXXT1DMAlan Moore is taking the piss most of the time and the fact that people don't get the joke is funny too.
>>146107495>chad says picrel >holy fucking based redpilled kino>fedora neckbearded fat dude says the same thing>wow what a loser
>>146107518One of my favourite videos.
>>146107518everything that comes out of this faggot’s mouth is cringe
>>146107287Every single time.
>>146107248fandom is extremely high estrogen and gay
>>146107610post your fedora collection
>>146107248>fandom>toxic>comicsgate>trumpHoly buzzwords Batman, we’re still only at the url!
>>146107610I have always hated the word "fandom" and how it sounds. I think the focus on the "white male conservative" side ignores how much tumblr and its effects really ruined culture.Media isn't being ruined by the conservatives, it is the fanfic writer who wrote about Supernatural brothers' fucking each other who now has influence.
>>146107526Even when "chad" says it, he's showing he's not chad on the inside, but also a fag fedora pseud. Real chad is watching football or something.
>>146107632Ignoring the title and ignoring the ending, the middle is pretty solid in my opinion.
>>146107325>begins bitching about how fandom turns people into emotionally stunted manchildren who mindlessly worship famous people for superfluous reasons>turns it into a trump thingmakes sense to me
>>146107248>>146107257>>146107273>>146107284>>146107300He's rightHe's fucking right
I just find it ironic that Alan Moore pretty much aligns with most of what people here believe, that culture is on the decline in a way, commercialisation and other problems. Only he just doesn't complain about wokeness. And that's why people dislike him.
He's seriously blaming fandom culture for the rise of the far right when fandom culture is predominantly left leaning?I know /co/ might not believe this, but by and large it's not the fucking comic book and video game nerds voting for Trump.
>>146107730He's more angry at culture being on the decline.
>>146107758I think it is more a "culture is dumbing down and people are getting dumb" rant that pretty much everyone on the right also believes.
>>146107284>Alan Moore learning about GEWUNERs from his grandson Kino
>>146107776>GEWUNERs?
>>146107720Most Trump supporters are blue collar workers.
>>146107758In V for Vendetta, Moore predicted fascists and corporations would unite in the future. In real life, it was progressivists and corporations. He is probably bitter about this and in denial about it, as most leftists are when confronted with proof they were wrong.
>>146107803>it was progressivists and corporations.Corporations using some language to pretend they are on the right side of history doesn't make them progressive.
>>146107826If it quacks like a duck
>>146107838So when lefties say trump is fascist he is?
>>146107846If it quacks like a duck
>>146107679He associates conservatism with 40 year old Pokemon fans and blames them for Trump.
The fact that Moore is so obsessed with politics proves to me that he's not really into the occult anymore.He allowed his brain to rot. It's kinda sad, really.
>>146107826>Corporations using some language to pretend they are on the right side of history doesn't make them progressive./co/umblr crying don’t noticed it’s Corporations shilling transgenderism and BLM propaganda.
>>146107892He released a new occult book this month.>The most acclaimed writer in comics history, Alan Moore, joins his late mentor Steve Moore (no relation) for one last graphic grimoire: a sprawling and stunning introduction to magic in all its timeless forms, brought to life by five wondrous and whimsical artists.
>>146107907Lobbying groups did that to HR departments in big corporations. It doesn't mean that those corporations are all left wing when most of what they do isn't that at all. And plenty of corporations do the opposite. Deciding all corporations act one way is retarded.
>>146107248>>146107284When I think of toxic fandom, I think of tumblr users and other SJWs that have an unrivaled unhealthy obsession with fictional characters. No one else bases their own identity around fandom as much as these leftists do. To the point they insist that their favorite fictional characters be made brown or queer, just like them, and they spend who knows how long writing trash fan-fiction that is just their own self-indulgence. They inevitably start demanding their fanfics be made canon. And when the creator eventually has to push back (JK Rowling on trannies for example), this leads to mass hysteria and freak outs among toxic lefties. Of course, they just forsake the creator and stick with their toxic fanfic subculture, they don’t ever learn to move on.It is primarily right-leaning people who form the healthy subcultures Moore is referring to. When corporations ruin an IP with the intention of angering the fanbase, of course they will speak out about the intended insult, but will otherwise go about their day and may eventually even lose interest in the fandom. The only people who make reacting to woke media a part of their life are youtubers and other influencers, because it’s their job.
>>146107986Let me rephrase it then: he lost the plot.Those who've seen beyond the veil are no longer bound by the false dichotomies of politics. So he's either grifting on politics or grifting on magic.
>>146108044>It is primarily right-leaning people who form the healthy subculturesNot particularly. CGers are all grifting cunts making really bad takes on 90s books.
>>146107344>stinks>has disgusting sexual fetishes>posting this on /co/Seems like his takes are going to be had in good company!
>>146107731>Only he just doesn't complain about wokeness. And that's why people dislike him.Disingenuous to act like he doesn’t take it a step further and start imagining a false reality in which all the people destroying yet consuming media are somehow trump voters and brexit fans
>>146108215Do you think the MCU has been positive for society, culture, movies, cinema? I mean taking it a step further to say infantilization of culture has had an effect on things is somewhat true.
>>146108200>bad takes on 90s booksSuch as?
>>146107772Yes and yet the problem is he’s blaming the people saying that the same thing he believes for it all. It’s bizarre and completely divorced from reality.
>>146108044>but will otherwise go about their day and may eventually even lose interest in the fandomThis is the funniest thing I have read in ages. /co/ is endless whining and never moving on.
>>146108230He's probably talking about Eric and Rippaverse shit.
>>146107986>overpriced piece of shit rather than affordable or even published for free online Awfully commercial and capitalist of him
>>146108229>Do you think the MCU has been positive for society, culture, movies, cinema? Yes, and yet i also KNOW the people they’ve been pandering the most to for the last ten years are left leaning so I don’t understand his stance here.
>>146107257>Concerning the word “fan”, I first encountered this contraction of “fanatic” during childhoodThis sort of shit smacks of a retard trying to sound intellectual.>hey did you know fed is short for federal? Shut this hairy has-been up already, he wrote one or two decent things and he's disappeared up his own asshole ever since.
>>146108229What does the woke as MCU have to do with trump?
>>146108240/co/ isn’t the average fan. /co/ is basically a tumblr colony and is left leaning.
>>146108229The MCU and its fanbase is primarily left-wing so what does that have to do with Trump and Brexit?
I just disagree with Alan Moore's assessment of culture. I don't think we are on this big decline. The people of yesteryear were not necessarily making decisions on politics in any greater way than we do now (like his reality TV dig). And the working class culture of the past he romanticises was not so great either or necessarily any deeper than shit we have now.The true problem of now is that their is no definable cultural zeitgeist he enjoyed as a kid because we have constant fast moving content in every flavour and every direction. It is simply impossible to rectify it because we humans are not adapted to it.Ultimately, Moore comes across as any other cultural moaner in a way.
>>146108293>/co/ is basically a tumblr colony and is left leaning.This is almost as dumb as what moore is sayingI’d actually say /co/ is pretty evenly split. Certainly more so than much of 4chan. But at the same time to claim it’s left leaning is purely autistic. Not even during the shill/marketer-driven “/co/ is love” period was that true.
>>146108292Alan Moore talks about the influence and effect of the popularity of superheroes in culture. >I ventured my opinion that the adult multitudes queueing for superhero movies were potentially an indicator of emotional arrestMaybe groups of adults not growing up and taking responsibilities are to blame for all the current issues.
>>146108303>I don't think we are on this big declineThat’s the one thing he notes that anybody with half a brain should agree with. I mean you’d have to be a teenager or grown ass man who’s never watched a film made before 2005 to disagree with that.
>>146108324I’ll ask again, what does the woke ass MCU have to do with trump voters who don’t watch woke ass MCU shit?
>>146108324>groups of adults not growing up and taking responsibilities are to blame for all the current issuesYeah, leftists.
>>146107248Buzzwordy headline aside, it's a solid critique. People would be better off engaging more in amateur spaces than passively consuming and reacting to whatever polished corporate turd gets churned out. It's hilarious that his grandson is running into those kinds of disgruntled 40 something year olds in Pokemon fan spaces. Gives me flashbacks to that fat neckbeard who flew to Japan to dunk on kids at a Pokemon tcg tournament.This piece also reminds me that Frederic Wertham, the infamous boogeyman of comic books, eventually changed his mind on comics but specifically in context of fanzines. I think there's an underlying thread there in the differences between the positive fandoms Moore identifies and the toxic ones.
>>146108318There are always threads about gay shipping and tumblr “friendship” cartoons at any given time. Yes, it’s a colony.
>>146108351>People would be better off engaging more in amateur spaces than passively consuming and reacting to whatever polished corporate turd gets churned out.I’d argue the cult of the amateur is actually what has hastened the decline in media quality.
>>146108335In the golden age of hollywood, b-reel films were mass produced: comedies, westerns, romance films and musicals. They were not of any great quality. Time distills stuff down to the good or what people are nostalgic for whilst no one remembers what the great films of those older times played against at the cinema. This constant feeling of dread, that the sky is falling, that civilization is collapsing, is precisely the self fulfilling prophecy that causes societies to fall. The past culture looks so great because we are seeing it filtered through so many layers where the great towers above the bad. So much media back then was created that has been lost or ignored. Nowadays this effect is ten times worse simply because the internet allows everyday people to upload their useless data and crap. It doesn't mean good culture isn't being made, it means that it is much harder to distill it. The problem with people like Alan Moore is he doesn't acknowledge that this is the true problem. Whining about cultural decline doesn't help us navigate the issues of the modern world preventing us from exploring decent culture.
>>146108360There are just as many people calling them faggots or calling out woke media.
Alan Moore is an old cynical loser and he has been for 40 years
>>146108391You’re comparing modern high budget media to intentionally low budget b-movies and you’re expecting to be taken seriously?
>>146108348>>146108349Why do so many people moan that the MCU became woke post -Endgame? Maybe because those people watching it weren't lefties.
>>146108420That wasn't my point at all. What didn't you get?I am saying that in the past there was mass produced media but that 90% of it is forgotten for various reasons and when we view the past we see the 10% of stuff that was great, talked about and remembered. So our view of the past is via this perspective, when you look at good movies from a specific decade, you are not looking at the complete picture of what is produced.This skews us into believing that the past culture is better because we are comparing that 10% to the modern unfiltered picture.
>>146108427People were complaining about it well before endgame though. And I would argue most trump and brexit voters haven’t seen more than 1 or 2 MCU films. I know that’s tough for your leftist ass to understand though since you likely never speak to real life people.
>>146108456>So our view of the past is via this perspective, when you look at good movies from a specific decade, you are not looking at the complete picture of what is produced.>This skews us into believing that the past culture is better because we are comparing that 10% to the modern unfiltered picture.Exactly what I said, you’re comparing the b-movies time forgot to high budget movies that suck dick and imagining you’re making an intelligent point.
>>146108460Not even a lefty, but nice try. Most of the grifting whining manbabies are culture warriors upset the MCU went woke, aka proving that the MCU was loved by plenty of right wing manchildren too.
>>146108475See now you’re not talking about the same people moore was talking about though. You’re just ranting about people you dislike.
>>146108474Are you just baiting me at this point? I am saying that we don't view the full cultural picture of the past in our assessment of it. The point was about, is culture in decline or not. People think old = good and new = bad precisely because they are comparing a thin slither of good old stuff filtered by society over time with the masses of unfiltered present stuff. It isn't a fair comparison.
>>146108484Moore literally said the same thing.
>>146108507>People think old = good and new = bad precisely because they are comparing a thin slither of good old stuff filtered by society over time with the masses of unfiltered present stuff. It isn't a fair comparison.It’s absolutely fair to compare high budget projects to high budget projects. Nobody is talking about low budget lifetime movies when they talk about cultural decline. They’re talking about bug budget blockbusters.
>>146108507It is a Moore thread, it is ALL bait.
>>146108524Anon, we are talking about how Alan Moore thinks culture is in decline. I don't know why you have got it in your head this is about "high budget projects" when it never was. Bizarre. You're talking about something completely different.
>>146108427Mate, you can go to any Marvel fan forum, subreddit, whatever, and it's going to be predominantly left wing people. There is no right wing fandom.Moore is clearly basing his opinions on second-hand accounts, he clearly does not actually interact with these groups. He thinks gaming fandoms are all Gamergators. Meanwhile, large sites like Resetera ban you for even implying you support Trump.
>>146108560What are comicsgaters then?
>>146108539What I said is as clear as possible, Moore spoke of fandoms, big budget projects have fandoms not small budgets. So address this specifically or I accept your concession:>Nobody is talking about low budget lifetime movies when they talk about cultural decline. They’re talking about bug budget blockbusters
>>146108572A few hundred losers online. Meanwhile 70 million people voted for trump lol
>>146108581A lot of stuff has fandoms. When people are talking about cultural decline they are talking about ALL of culture. Like Moore complained about Harry Potter etc: >>146107406It is difficult to properly assess and compare the culture of the past with the culture of now precisely because the online effect of how much context is being made now. That is the true issue underlying the problems we have. We have no cultural zeitgeist and no filter mechanism. The past has an in-built filter to it.Moore is complaining about how culture is all infantalised now which leads to poor outcomes in politics. But plenty of the people in the past did not necessarily have a better understanding of culture or politics than they do now. Hence I think Moore is wrong.
>>146108572They don't even read comics, how can they be part of the comic fandom?
>>146108642>Moore is complaining about how culture is all infantalised now which leads to poor outcomes in politics. But plenty of the people in the past did not necessarily have a better understanding of culture or politics than they do now. Hence I think Moore is wrong.And he’s insane to think left leaning media is even consumed by most of the millions of people who voted for trump in the last two elections. I’d argue what he should be complaining about instead when it comes to trump is the decentralization and democratization of media. Yet that would make him sound less progressive and liberal.
>>146107284Nothing he said is wrong.
>>146108646They identify as part of the fandom
>>146107284>There are, of course, entirely benign fandoms, networks of cooperative individuals who quite like the same thing, can chat with others sharing the same pastime and, importantly, provide support for one another in difficult times. These healthy subcultures, however, are less likely to impact on society in the same way that the more strident and presumptuous fandoms have managed. Unnervingly rapidly, our culture has become a fan-based landscape that the rest of us are merely living in.This is just vocal minorities having a larger say than silent majorities.
>>146108831How can you blame “premature” cancelling of failed media on people who didn’t like and didn’t watch something? How can he lament the “premature cancelling” of media without, himself, being some small portion of an infantilized fandom? He’s completely divorced from reality.
>>146108857I’d argue the media is failing because it’s trying to reach vocal minorities rather than vocal majorities.
>>146108890Nta, I don't think he is divorced from reality, it is just general culture wars dross and generalisations. The shit you hear from anons all the time. Funnily enough it reminds me a bit of this guy:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/01/gamergate-alt-right-hate-trumpHe runs a boardgame youtube show (small potatoes in views but does have influence in that sphere) and one of his collaborators is married to a woman involved with GamerGate. Just the same thing that these pockets of pop culture somehow actually have a huge impact on politics. People constantly want to connect x culturally thing with y bad outcome. People on the left and right do it all the time.
>>146108896Sure but my line of thinking was that in a way we have always had this problem politically, it isn't "new" like Moore seems to be suggesting. Vocal minorities have always pushed their points over others.
>>146108890Media used to be made in a different way. Media found its audience. It was given a chance to start. Now everything gets cancelled fast, sometimes before it even launches.
>>146108937You seem to have misread what I said. Let me make it clear:By trying to pander to queers, POC and left leaning people they are setting themselves up for failure. The rest of the people lamenting that don’t have anything to do with the eventual failure.
>>146108951No I understood what you meant completely, I was simply saying something different. I believe Moore is just complaining about shit that has always existed, just in different ways.
>>146108950When the audience you want doesn’t exist in numbers high enough to recoup cost it will always fail. And also things have been getting cancelled based on pilots and short orders for decades so it’s not new… AT ALL.
>>146108926>ust the same thing that these pockets of pop culture somehow actually have a huge impact on politicsI don’t think that’s measurably true. I do think the media being divisive has an effect on people’s state of mind though, sure.
>>146108987>I don’t think that’s measurably true.That's what I was saying.
>>14610895190% of media creators are either leftists or liberals. You get a few conservatives like Frank Miller, but they aren’t nearly as common. The difference is that liberals can only write identity politics because they don’t have any strong held fiscal beliefs (like the cowboy bebop Netflix showrunners, who said they don’t believe the setting is a dystopia because it’s so diverse). Now leftist stories on the other hand are more often about one of two things. The first being a poor guy saving the world from evil corrupt powerful/wealthy people. The second being dark stories where the hero is incapable of dismantling the systems of power that oppress them. Leftist stories are always about how the powerful use their power against the poor. Some stories are just way more hamfisted with their messaging.
>>146107248Ten years ago, I thought he was a retard, but I get what he's talking about now. The guys you see wearing Punisher shirts are bootlickers who suck off cops. The whole thing about super heroes is supposed to be >good actors in corrupt system trying to make a changeBut for the most part you just see bodycam footage of cops choking people to death or shooting them in the face cuz they're black. And then you've got comic nerds who justify them.
>>146109023Miller isn’t a conservative at all though. I didn’t read any further than that. It’s not even debatable he’s not even right leaning.
>>146109023>Now leftist stories on the other hand are more often about one of two things. The first being a poor guy saving the world from evil corrupt powerful/wealthy people. The second being dark stories where the hero is incapable of dismantling the systems of power that oppress them.What are right wing stories about, in comparison?
>>146108987Most writers are going to write about things they care about, and the things they care about often overlap with controversial topics. Most successful artists didn’t learn to make media exclusively because they thought it’d be fun. They do it because they feel like they have information that they absolutely need to share.
>>146108695>And he’s insane to think left leaning media is even consumed by most of the millions of people who voted for trump in the last two elections.Inevitably it is, I don't think the majority of trump voters have never watched or entirely avoid media made by left leaning people. Most of them were likely not even thinking of the politics of the movie makers for the longest time. They paid their ticket to watch Marvel movies same reason anyone else did- they were summer blockbusters meant to be casually watched.
>>146109045Writers don’t make media, producers and publishers do.
>>146109048>I don't think the majority of trump voters have never watched or entirely avoid media made by left leaning people>have never Would be true>routinely Would be untrue. Feels like you don’t actually talk to many conservatives let alone trump voters. These are the type of people who don’t watch fox because it sold trump out after the last election.
>>146108950>Now everything gets cancelled fast, sometimes before it even launches.Entertainment has just been devalued to such an extreme extent because you can just watch a Youtuber talk shit for free (well at the cost of your data and watching ads) and a Youtuber seems more appealing because people are bereft of real life relationships and want something parasocial. At least the Youtuber might talk about something you're interested in unlike your peers all being pulled in fifty directions culturally.Big franchises fail because they refuse to adhere to the archetypical big mythical story way of doing things combined with changing up just enough to be interesting.Fanfic writing from tumblr has infected every part of pop culture and really caused all the issues precisely because it has no structure except for the author to treat their characters like sexual play things for gratification or it is some power fantasy along left wing political academic lines/structure.Streaming is the ultimate example of this effect, cheapening entertainment even more and appealing to more specific sub-groups ad infinitum with too large a budget. It is an impossible creative atmosphere.Blaming the fans is the wrong approach from a person like Moore because the true issue is the executives. (I also dislike people blindly blaming just "woke".) The truth is the executives, with their responsibility free golden parachutes when things go wrong, have created the modern ecosystem. They chase fads when the market is saturated (live service games are popular, the MCU is doing well). They always come too late. They allowed middle management and HR to be infected by lobbying. They throw money at problems. And a "name" a brand is their currency.We used to have writers, now we have producer led showrunners. We used to have directors, now we have studio heads. Blaming this on fans is weird, it is like blaming it blindly on woke, it is hitting the symptoms and not the disease.
>>146109084>We used to have writers, now we have producer led showrunners. We used to have directors, now we have studio heads.That’s just not even remotely true, they were always the ones fully in charge. For a brief time in the 90s american films were more indie but even then the only ones people saw were acquired by studios. That being said I do agree it makes no sense to blame fans for this and I think it’s patently absurd to act like those fans are also somehow to blame for every political view moore dislikes.
>>146107248Blaming media for what a laggard middle class, corporate greed and media driven fervor is genuinely as juvenile as it gets. That anyone thinks this is intelligent or prescient is, to me, remarkably laughable. Someone tell this smelly manchild to grow the fuck up and learn something about geopolitics and economics.
>>146109168*Blaming fandoms for what a laggard middle class, corporate greed and media driven fervor have done
>>146109035Look at 300:>Spartans are noble warriors >Persians are foreign brown hordes>Leonidas has to listen to the lecherous Jews on the top of the mountain>evil spartan takes the Jew gold>Spartans made fun of Athenians for being gay (Spartans were historically way more gay)>Spartans criticized Persians for having slaves (Spartans historically had a ton of slaves) It’s a completely reactionary piece of media
>>146109154We are talking about two different things, I am talking format. Television was mostly single stories, e.g. sitcoms. The writers wrote stories, the writers fought for rights and better pay. Yes other people were ultimately in charge, but their importance was larger. In the modern age of television, the one and done story became obsolete compared to the series, the multi season arc (even though people would rather watch The Office or Seinfeld on repeat). Showrunners became the big new way of producing a story. And think about how that turned out with shit like Game of Thrones. They often cheapened out on writing and things suffered because of it.Look at the MCU. The Marvels director said the film was "a Kevin Feige film". She directed around 1/4 of the film. Because Marvel, second unit directors do all the big scenes and action scenes and she filmed around those. She didn't have much of a say. And after she is done, reshoots are done without her. It was a Kevin Feige film. Yes, studios in the past have done this before and had this level of influence but there was still flourishes of creativity and not everyone was doing this same type of film construction. But a lot of people now copy this.That is what I meant. Writers and directors have lost some of their influence, prestige and become much more cogs in machines to a huge extent.
>>146109043Right wing stories are generally either nationalistic, individualistic, or reactionary. Like a story about a super agent saving the president from a terror attack. Or a bunch of soldiers fighting together in some foreign war. That’s not to say that liberals or leftists can’t write these stories (liberals generally fail at every kind of storytelling bf though, let’s be fair), or that conservatives can’t write a story with a more liberal or leftist setup. For an example, you can look at two cyberpunk cop anime from the 80s, Appleseed, and Angel Cop. Appleseed is about cops maintaining attempting to maintain a utopia city after a catastrophic war tore up the world. The story is about both international politics and AI. A lot of it centers around when to question power and how can a society be maintained that functions for everyone. While many of the characters themselves aren’t leftists, it’s definitely written from a leftist perspective. On the other hand, you have Angel Cop. Angel Cop is about cops in a futuristic Tokyo where the economic bubble never burst. The bad guys in this series are communist terrorists funded by Jews (seriously that’s the plot). The series goes in to little effort in trying to make you understand why there are communists in the first place (something about free will and it being peoples right to fuck over others or something). The cops are perfect moral archons and the villains are never justified. That’s a right leaning piece of media. It’s not great. That’s not to say there can’t be right leaning media that’s good. That Yellow Bastard is a conservative story that I absolutely love. There’s also tons of leftist media that’s trash.
>>146109035>In response to claims that his comics are conservative, Miller said, "I'm not a conservative. I'm a libertarian."
>>146109255>le racism!!! >h-h-he made the brown people savagesPlease shut the fuck up you faggot. How about you look at sin city with the crazy white guy killing the crooked catholic priest who’s family infected the government? How about you look at Martha Washington which would be derided as too woke these days? Or how he views the military industrial complex in daredevil. I’m so sick of you people thinking holy terror or making xerxes look effeminate and evil means he’s right leaning let alone conservative.
>>146109062If you’re talking exclusively movies, sure. For tv, the writer is the showrunner, so they have a lot more power. For books and comics, the writer has a ton of power.
>>146109312>For books and comics, the writer has a ton of power.And this is why comics suck. I know people shit on the superstar artist era but the superstar writer era and disconnect between art and story in comics is the worst. It is why most modern comics are bad. Because so many of the writers are using:>their failed screenplay>their quirky dnd campaign>their fanficMoore had really great scripts with really detailed shit for the artist to sink their teeth into. Most of the shilled writers now are absolute trash and I hate how fandom revolves around them. It isn't an artist book, it is a writers book etc.
>>146109263>but their importance was largerThat’s simply not true. The people writing the checks always, ALWAYS, have and will be more important and powerful. >Writers and directors have lost some of their influence, prestige and become much more cogs in machines to a huge extent.This just tells me you don’t know much about classic Hollywood. Films would go through multiple directors all the time because of disagreements. Kubrick only directed Spartacus because Douglas fired Anthony Mann, for instance. Producers, in this case also the star, always controlled everything.
>>146109312>For tv, the writer is the showrunnerThe showrunner has become a more producer role in recent years though, while they use cheaper teams of writers under them.
>>146109305You’re retarded if you believe an individuals beliefs have to sit on a binary. There’s a ton of reactionary right wing stuff in his comics, but a right wing person can have some lefti wing opinions, and vice versa. Like I have a doctor friend who’s very conservative, but supports universal healthcare. You’d think there would be a conflict there, but it’s sound with his worldview. Just because you politically lean to one side, doesn’t mean you can’t hold political beliefs that are outside what’s expected of you.
>>146109312>For books and comics, the writer has a ton of power.The publisher decides what is published. The writers and artist have only as much power as they’re allowed in that case.
>>146109359>You’re retarded if you believe an individuals beliefs have to sit on a binaryYet you’re the one claiming he’s a conservative/right-winger. Based on “racism”. As if people from either political affiliation can’t be racist.
>Local hobo goes on a schizo rambleNot comics or cartoons.
>>146109342I pretty much only read webcomics and manga at this point because I like it when the artist and the writer are the same person. Is the output necessarily better? No, but it’s more likely you’ll find weird interesting shit in there. The more fingers in the pot, the more the weird interesting bits get edited out for the sake of mass appeal.
>>146109082>Feels like you don’t actually talk to many conservatives let alone trump voters.Most of my family is conservative. I have a lot of friends who are, including literal boomers. They watch the same basic movies and stuff everyone else does
>>146109348>The people writing the checks always, ALWAYS, have and will be more important and powerful.I never denied that at all? I even said, yes other people were in charge in my post. But writers WERE given more prominence in the past in old TV because they were vitally needed because of how much stuff was one and done. Plenty of old writers were journeymen writers who cut their teeth in various industries such as print media. New writers tend to be cheaper, college educated with online writing experience and teams of them are used with the showrunner having more prominence nowadays.>This just tells me you don’t know much about classic HollywoodI know how prominent the old studio system was at making people as cogs in a machine, with stars signed to individual studios. But the new corporate system is extreme too and that is the point. We transitioned from one system to another to the modern system. Of course there were disagreements and other things. Again, we are talking about two different things and talking past each other.
>>146109408>But writers WERE given more prominence in the past in old TV because they were vitally needed because of how much stuff was one and done.Name 20 without google. So like within 10 minutes.
>>146109378I’m saying that the entirety of 300 is written from a right wing perspective. That’s not to say he is a bad writer at all. Hell and Back is about fucked up leftist war veterans and a mixed race couple and he handles it really well. It’s the exact same thing you get where a leftist makes something like Robocop. Cop movies and anti crime movies made back then were often made from a conservative perspective (like Death Wish). Robocop succeeds at telling a compelling cyberpunk cop story without making all the cops shitty parodies. It’s called being good at writing vs being bad at it.
>>146107803>n V for Vendetta, Moore predicted fascists and corporations would unite in the future. In real life, it was progressivists and corporations.Who are Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos supporting in the current US election, the two richest men in human history who control massive corporations
>>146109427Off the top of my head:Rod Serling, Charles Beaumont, William Asher, plenty of Twilight Zone guys, or the writer Harlan Ellison was incredibly prolific in television.To name 20 would take me a hot minute and isn't exactly proving anything or adding to the conversation.
>>146109473Ignore them. They think Joe Biden is a communist despite the fact that we still don’t have universal healthcare.
>>146109462>is written from a right wing perspectiveThat’s a retarded assertion. It’s written from a western perspective.
>>146109406>They watch the same goyslop everyone else doesTell them to stop as it's all jew media.
>>146109474It would prove that they’re well known. If you can’t even name 20 you’re either talking about of your ass or, and this is really it, it’s not true. It’s funny you mention Serling because he was the producer of twilight zone.
>>146109305>sin city with the crazy white guy killing the crooked catholic priest who’s family infected the governmentThis was funny because IRL he would either be Jewish or Freemason. But then the comic couldn't be published.
>>146109473Bezos isnt endorsing trump, he’s supporting himself by keeping Amazon out of any hot water with a boycott due to a wapo endorsement that in the end means nothing.
>>146109462And yet you’re so focused on 300 it almost makes me think you’re Iranian and seething about it for no other reason as you ignore the examples of stories from a left wing perspective.
>>146109566>western perspectiveMeaningless term unless you’re talking about literal westerns. There’s a huge variety of political though in the west. Condensing that down into “western perspective, is retarded. “Western perspective” can only explain the most basic and superficial of storytelling tropes.
>>146109266I feel like individualism has become more leftist because the right values community, which the liberals want to destroy.And while the poor guy fighting the wealthy and corrupt >>146109023 may have once been a liberal story, today that guy would be fighting George Soros, Bill Gates, Larry Fink, etc. which would make him conservative.
>>146109629>bring up 300>reply talks about 300>reply back with 300>repeat x2>”you’re really talking about 300 a lotThat’s how a conversation works. Would you rather talk about a different piece of conservative media like Death Wish 2?
>>146107720That's why it is libtards who currently employ all these celebrities just so people will vote for 0 day abortions and even more trannies and groups everywhere. >>146107248>Alan MooreRetarded man's idea of smart, sophisticated and original
>>146109084>Fanfic writing from tumblrPop culture since 1960s.
>>146109595>It would prove that they’re well knownAh so you missed my point. I never used the word well known? I said prominent, as in, at the time they were prominent in the industry. Everything I say you misunderstand. My point was about the varying degree of influence writers had, I never said they were in charge or whatever else you think I said. You've completely missed the point? Yes, Serling was a producer but an anthology like Twilight Zone needed writers (he wrote many episodes and brought many people in as it went along). He would literally introduce episodes like this is a teleplay by x writer. Because, you know, the writers were seen as a prominent thing, like a stage play writer. Journeymen creatives who cut their teeth in many different things.You know that show Arrow that was on CW based on Green Arrow. Fun story some episodes in season 3 were literally written by practical interns. The prominence of writers in the industry has reduced while the prominence of shows having a full showrunner increased, as television shows changed format.
>>146109633>sets the Grecian/westerners as the heroes>sets the Persians/easterners as the villainsAnon are you retarded or are you just so dug in on this you’ve decided to be so disingenuous as to feign ignorance over what the term western means?There is nothing “conservative/right-wing” about that story unless your doing the faggy “right wingers hate brown people” shit.
>>146108208SU never again, loserrrrrr
>>146109692It is all fanfiction all the way down. Even Dante.
>>146109659>Would you rather talk about a different piece of conservative media like Death Wish 2?What does that have to do with Frank Miller?
>>146109639You’ve conflated liberals and leftist in your very first sentence. They’re completely different perspectives. You’re just retrofitting what you want to believe on to what these different words actually mean. Leftists would have no issue with a character killing any of the people you mention because leftism is inherently a class based perspective. Liberals on the other hand could easily write a story about the worlds nicest billionaire because liberalism is a pro corporate ideology and generally very laissez faire about things. You just get liberals pushing racial policy because they think those are the only real things the world needs to fix. You can also get right wing media about evil billionaires, sure, but they’re generally evil for some other reason than the fact that they’re a billionaire greedily collecting assets.
>>146109697You said>We used to have writers, now we have producer led showrunners. We used to have directors, now we have studio heads.I said>That’s just not even remotely true, they were always the ones fully in charge. I remain correct.
>>146109727Did you miss the nationalistic aspects entirely?>>146109748You said you got tired of 300, I offered another piece of conservative media.
>>146109772Considering their downfall is caused by fellow countrymen I think you’re imagining a more nationalistic message to the actual story just because of a trait of the main character.
>>146109765I simply reduced down a statement in a much larger post and when you questioned it I clarified in more detail what I meant. I was talking about changing formats/influence/prominence. I answered you in simple good faith, there was no correction to be had. You misunderstood what I meant, I explained, we have different views. That is how it goes sometimes.
>>146109665>Retarded man's idea of smart, sophisticated and originalI would say a child’s view. Even retards know he’s a fool.
>>146109280He’s right, he isn’t conservative, he’s retarded.
>>146109824SAY THAT TO HIS FACE
>>146109772>You said you got tired of 300, I offered another piece of conservative mediaAnon pointed out sin city, Martha Washington and daredevil and you’ve refused to admit those all have a more left wing perspective. That’s what I was pointing out. I don’t know why you’d bring up a bronson movie.
>>146109801The downfall is caused by fellow countrymen who were bribed by the Jews at the top of jew mountain.
>>146109841People getting old man
>>146107406>left wing perspective>culture is going to shit and driving everything down with itTurning culture to shit and driving everything down IS the left wing perspecitive. It's their goal. It's written down, in exact words, in the 100+ year old manifesto they follow.Never trust anyone over the age of 15 who still calls themselves a socialist. It's funny Moore talks about people being "emotionally arrested" and infantile when he is not far from the grave and still has the world view of a typical 12-year-old edgy faggot.
>>146107248Alan Moore is the most overrated comics writer (aside from Morrison) and you fags need to stop hero-worshiping him. The fact that you think everything he says deserves its own thread is proof that far too many of you are retarded.
>>146109841No, because I like his comics. If I were to see him, I’d probably just say that he has written some of the most well paced comics ever made.
>>146109854They were religious zealots bribed by Persians, a people who hate jews…Not a very right-wing view of religion there
>>146107248This entire thread is pathetic. Alan Moore is pathetic for taking this shit so seriously and you fags are pathetic for thinking what he has to say has some special weight to it.
>>146109871Well there you go then.>>146109860>tfw mortality
>>146109879No one cares, it is just a shitpost, bait thread, politics thread
>>146109659>>146109772You never addressed whether you’re Iranian btw.
>>146109879Alan Moore still makes /co/ seethe.
I honestly believe that Alan Moore is just trolling at this point. The guy has always had a sardonic wit and humour to him. You can't read that article without seeing the million culture war touchstones in your face. I think he just enjoys taking the piss out of people at this point. This thread certainly fell for it.
>>146109852Plenty of Sin City comics are conservative leaning. Like That Yellow Bastard. A good cop gets fucked over by a corrupt cop and a corrupt system because he went after a powerful man’s pedophilic son. It’s a very machismo “me against the world” noire type story. Part of what makes it conservative is that its bereft of any systemic critique. The Senator is evil only because he’s protecting his evil son and punishing Hartigan. The poverty of the setting is just taken as a given. I’m not saying that that being present is necessary, but that is something that a leftist would be way more likely to include. I’m not even saying that conservative media is inherently bad in itself. I think the sim city comics are great.
>>146109895I’m not. I’m white. If I were Iranian I’d probably say Sin City is trash because Frank Miller wrote it and I’d be mad at him for writing 300. I don’t think Sin City is trash at all and I think Frank Miller is a great comic maker.
>>146109280To a communist faggot like Moore being a libertarian is literally worse than Hitler
>>146110009I mean yeah, libertarians and communists are on the complete opposite sides of the political spectrum. Yet both authors have written characters from the opposite side of the politics spectrum that you can empathize with.
>>146107448>>146107721>>146108831>>146107248Alan Moore is a faggot Reddit crybaby and so is anyone who agrees with him. He can bitch all he wants about "cultural degredation" but he himself is a retarded hobo with all the intellectual depth of a spoon. Every opinion piece of his I read makes me respect him less.
>>146107369I completely disagree. I was a fuckup in my teens and early 20s. I finished my first book this year when I turned 36.
Ya. I ain't reading all that shit. This is a board for comic books. Not novels.
>>146110055Good for you anon
>>146108324Or maybe, just maybe it's the Jews who created their golem but it's now taking on a life of its own.
>>146109936>Moore is just trollingBullshit.His entire career is built on a medium he hates. But he's too much of a faggot to hate himself for it, so he hates everyone except himself. I don't even like capeshit but his pathetic faggotry is written all over him.
>>146107248>ridiculous, unearned sense of entitlement.>>146107257>I first encountered this contraction of “fanatic” during childhood,>mentioned unearned sense of entitlement, then feels the need to layout an anecdote of how he encountered something as a child, something usually done to stake a claim in how early someone discovered something to give a stronger impression of their standing.>>146107273>I detected the beginnings of a tendency to fetishise a work’s creator rather than simply appreciate the work itself, as if artists and writers were themselves part of the costumed entertainment.shit, he said this was 8 years after he attended a con which would put this memory in the 70s....did this guy miss the Beatles and Elvis? Fetishization of a creator vs their work coincided with accessible mass medial over the airwaves, for crying out loud.
>>146108266Leftists hate liberals. The MCU is very liberal coded. A leftist would write the end of endgame as Tony snapping his fingers and ending the concept of conflict in the universe or something.
>>146108000you are seriously being myopic. The corporations that participate had these people in place that instituted these policies, and if they didn't respond to the negative impact that correlated from their policies being enacted, then you can't make an argument that its just at the behest of a lobbying group, especially on publicly traded companies.but worst, whatever meager amount of corporations that don't participate in that don't even matter because the global companies that control debt do participate and compel the participation of all others to engage in financial services. Or didn't you know that?
>>146110100He doesn’t hate comics. He just thinks people that spend their whole lives obsessing over fictional media are losers, and he’s right.
>>146110165please explain to me how Rio Tinto, the mining corporation, is a 'woke, leftists organization'
>>146108000Corporations aren’t left wing in the slightest. They’re libertarian. They use liberal buzzwords to sell products since that’s marketable. Set any of those billionaires in front of a leftist with a gun and you have a dead billionaire. Set any of these billionaires in front of a liberal with a gun, you have the liberal and the billionaire chilling out until the billionaire gets picked up by his driver.
>>146110199They could be considered left wing in the fact that they get bailed out by the government, buys that’s more like a scam than anything. Socialism for the rich, cutthroat capitalism for the poor
>>146110177>He doesn’t hate comics.He absolutely does.
>>146110219Hating what the medium of comics is at this moment and hating the concept of comics in general are two very different things.
>>146109034>The whole thing about super heroes is supposed to be>>good actors in corrupt system trying to make a change[citation needed]
>>146110199>Corporations aren’t left wing in the slightest. They’re libertarian.Corporations love the regulatory state because it discourages and suppresses competition.
>>146110177>He just thinks people that spend their whole lives obsessing over fictional media are losers, and he’s right.he just won't admit it that to be a creator especially one thats financially successful falls under that rubrick too, which means himself as well.
>>146110211>Socialism for the rich, cutthroat capitalism for the poorSo socialism, then.
>>146110237You're talking as if the article in the OP is the only time he's ever opened his rotten-toothed gob on the subject, you retard.
>>146110242Yeah. Genuinely all superheroes are are good guys who beat bad guys. You can stitch any political or personal belief you have onto that format.
>>146110270No, I know he’s talked shit about comics before, but it’s not like he never says good things about comics or comic makers.
>>146110258>Corporations love the regulatory state because it discourages and suppresses competition.you're a fucking retard if you believe thisderegulation has been the biggest contributor to monopolization of industries. if you actually want to suppress competition, you cut deregulation and end up with the biggest company eating up their smaller competitors.see: walmart, amazon, disney
>>146110258He's right, but the only thing he's wrong about is the trend. The history of Sherlock Holmes (the original books) and how the fandom treated the books were insane.I think it's a natural consequence of art being a global thing now. It means the devoted and toxic fans can congregate together and fuel the fire.
>>146110258When the regulatory state is bribed, sure. The issue is that we can never come to a perfect political system because people are flawed. “Muh real capitalism”, “muh real fascism”, “muh real communism” are all inevitably doomed to fail unless you set up some inhuman sci fi bullshit to manage it all.
>>146110310Ignore the (you) that snuck in there.
>>146110297What if every year we just killed the top 5 richest men and broke down the top two biggest companies. You can have capitalism, just don’t be a fucker about it.
>>146110316When you have to bribe someone, it means they're the ones with the power.Microsoft spend nothing on bribes until the government threatened to destroy them for "unfairness". Now they pay millions and Windows takes screencaps of your desktop they totally won't give the government unless they ask.
>>146110336>gibs me dat
>>146110297People look at America, one of the places with the highest rate of monopolization and the lowest regulations and think 'we're not lowering regulations enough'. It's retarded.We're close to having our entire nation's grocery store network being controlled by two or three companies and people think cutting regulations will somehow stop them from just undercutting and killing local businesses the moment they pop up.
>>146110357> When you have to bribe someone, it means they're the ones with the power.Wrong. When someone is in your pocket, you control them. Not the other way around.
>>146110336>I wake up on New Year’s Eve to find out I’m a trillionaireAw fuck.
>>146110368Who's in control in protection rackets? The shopkeepers with the money, or the gangsters who take payment to do nothing?>if only those rich shops didn't pay those gangsters they wouldn't have mugged me
>>146110366I mean we’re just going to shift into neofeudalism. It’s just what’s going to happen. The wealthy will be the new kings, and their heirs will quarrel and assassinate each other with sci fi gizmos.
>>146110387Money is a symbol of power. The racket is still in charge. The transaction is still the same. The powerful person uses their power to leverage a weaker person’s power. Separating money and power is retarded. Money is the physical manifestation of influence. Influence is power.
>>146107248>some of whom angrily demanded I be extradited to the US and made to stand trial for my crimes against superhumanity – which I felt didn’t necessarily disprove my allegationsAlan a bunch of people just called you a bitter old faggot and you've been seething about it ever since
>>146107248Lot of his points are undercut by his incessant need to paint his detractors as extremist idiots who froth at the mouth of his every little utterance. >some of whom angrily demanded I be extradited to the US and made to stand trial for my crimes against superhumanityNo one has cared about a single thing Moore has written since Watchmen. He takes criticism so poorly that he constantly feels the need try to cast himself as a hyper-intellectual martyr. Then, when people roll their eyes at him, he feels the need to bellow and wail about the horrid treatment he's endured as an misanthropic shut-in who only comes out to tell everyone how badly he doesn't want attention.
>>146107657>I think the focus on the "white male conservative" side ignores how much tumblr and its effects really ruined culture.It's kind of hysterical that he'd have anything to say about white males of any kind, when it's actually been the shunning of that exact demographic that correlates perfectly with the nosedive in quality that has destroyed comics, cartoons, and movies so thoroughly.It wasn't a massive influx of right-leaning men who destroyed comics. They were always there and certainly didn't come running as Marvel and DC more openly and aggressively began courting the mythical "modern audience" and turned superheroes into a thing that women could append to their lack of personality to make up for their otherwise humiliatingly trashy interests in reality TV, drag queen contests, and vacuous softcore porn literature written at a 4th grade level.
>>146107248>>146107257>>146107273>>146107284>>146107300not reading all this. bro wrote capeshit and thought he was an artist.
>>146107465Way to prove him right.
>>146108215That’s not what he’s doing but it’s very telling that you misread it like that
>>146110425>money is a symbol of powerNo it isn’t retard. It’s paper to buy things with.
>>146107803>In real life, it was progressivists and corporationsThen why are progressives consistently demanding more regulation, more taxes, more accountability, etc. for corporations and more environmental protections, advocate for unions and labour rights, etc.? It is the right that keeps rejecting these ideas and politically uses its power to make sure they are always stopped either completely or make them so watered down they don’t really achieve what is intended. It is the corporations who fund right wing political campaigns to ensure they get taxed less, they get to pollute more, to not have a bigger push for green energy because the fossil fuel industry is paying them too much lobbying money to a point the race for who the world leader in the field has already been lost to China, the right is the ones who alongside corporations work to destroy unions and make labour laws worse (look at conservatives currently passing bills to lower age restrictions on CHILDREN working so that they can be used to fill jobs at dangerous job sites like in slaughterhouses).How is it possible to be so stupid and gullible that because corporations do the minimum effort to virtue signal that it always so effectively fools morons like this guy to thinking progressives and corporations are joint from the hip? Does your life seriously revolve so much around hating gay and trans people that your entire understanding of politics amounts to just thinking that everything you don’t like must be working for the polar opposite of your own political ideology?
>>146111047>no no listen to what I say I believe and stop noticing what I actually doFaggot.
>>146108044>It is primarily right-leaning people who form the healthy subcultures Moore is referring to. Yeah that totally explains this place and the entire right wing hate engine online where you have countless youtube channels whining about wokeness and one minute saying X is woke and then changing the narrative to ACHTUALLY IT’S BASED AND NOT WOKE NOW THAT IT IS POPULAR. Like when people for months kept saying Black Panther was SJW trash and would bomb and Disney was just buying empty theatres to make it look it was successful and now people here pretend that didn’t ever happen, shut up, actually Black Panther is based and red pilled because Wakanda is isolationist even though that is actually depicted as being a bad thing in the movie and has to change. Or how Super Mario was meant to be woke because right wingers kept claiming Princess Peach was a girlboss and stealw the movie from Mario. And then the movie was super successful and overnight right wingers went NO WE ALWAYS LOVED MARIO IT IS WHOLESOME AND AMAZING NOT SOULLESS SLOP.Fuck, they did this shit in Barbie by crying their asses off because it was marketed towards women and every fucking asshole online was saying it was going to flop because GO WOKE GO BROKE and even bitched about the jokes and how it oppressed men. And then it was the biggest cultural phenomenon of the year and online culture war right wingers had to come up with a new narrative that achtually it was always going to be successful nobody claimed it was going to bomb, the movie only was successful because Ryan Gosling, it shits on women so the movie is anti-feminist, etc.
>>146108474You’re making false equivalence because you can’t wrap your head around the greater point while showing complete lack of understanding of historical context of media and the parallels between today and the past that obviously is going to have certain differences due to the changes in landscape and scale but those do not at all disprove what is being said about media in the overall picture.
>>146107300He made a real point about fandom but bringing it down by bringing real world politics into it without considering the extenuating circumstances around it makes him just another problem presented by the entertainment industry as a whole rather than as a legitimate critique about it as a part of the overall problem
>>146108890Because in the past if something didn’t have good ratings or the network executive was an asshole they would cancel shit maybe five episodes into a series and fill the timeslot with reruns or another show by switching the time it would air.Today you have massive hate campaigns by aggrieved fanboys that revolve around review bombing shows and celebrating that something gets cancelled due to online hate. They don’t usually and necessarily even watch a second of it, they just hate and want it cancelled because it’s part of their identity to hate things. It isn’t enough to just not watch and be content with a show not being renewed. You actively have to push it to be cancelled so that you feel like you achieved something. It’s demented and a sign of how toxic fanfom has become.In the past people just moved on and watched something else if they didn’t like something or didn’t think it was for them. Now you just hate something without even watching it before you think every single thing in media should be pandering to you specifically like a entitled child.
>>146107826Yet that language and those actions are perfect for corporations to maintain perpetual control, interesting isn’t it?
>>146109639It’s always curious how people like this keep listing Soros and co. but never say anything about Koch brother, the Peter Thiel’s of the world, Elon Musk who is currently literally paying people millions to influence the current presidential election. It’s just parroting the NPC scripts like a robot.And for the record the left hates people like Bill Gates. If you actually pay attention to what Gates has been doing you might understand that he and his billions are doing a lot of damage, be it with his complete disaster of school reform experiment or his vaccine patent lobbying. Speak nothing of his business dealings. But I guess it’s too much to ask for people to actually know what they are talking about when you can just recycle talking points you’ve seen other people use and feel smart.
>>146109697>The prominence of writers in the industry has reduced while the prominence of shows having a full showrunner increased, as television shows changed format.This is fundamental misunderstanding of what has happened. You’re describing studios and networks deliberately undermining and destroying the position writers used to have on a show, in order to cut costs. Because executives hate writers and don’t think they have any real value. This is why they want AI to take over because they literally think you can just put in prompts and presto you get a hit show. But yes, show runners have grown more in influence and power but you know what? They are also burdened with all kinds of crap like increasingly expected to do a lot of unpaid work on a show and doing jobs that used to belong to other people. All the while they’re getting paid less, and barely any show runner outside of the handful of current “hot new name” have any real power anymore. They’re entirely replaceable. They’re mostly just glorified writers who were never taught to run a production like they used to be in the old days, and don’t actually have a lot of creative control beyond certain parameters. Because the people at the top have cut and cut and cut production teams to the bone and that is why shows are shorter, the quality has dropped…
>>146111209>In the past people just moved on and watched something else if they didn’t like something or didn’t think it was for themNah, there weare always fanboys who watched shit just to hate it to the point that several shows have characters parodying that. It's just that before they didn't have the reach social media allows them these days. Though they watch the thing they hated, even if just to nitpick it to hell. Not so different than a lot of fans these days to be honest
>>146111112YWNBAW
>>146107248>Thing is good but sometimes it can be badWoah blowing my mind, Alan
>>146107632Yeah? Comicsgate was mistake
>>146111565Heh, seething. People tired with culture war! "Woke" is an attempt to disguise bigotry!
>>146107248After all these years and Moore still makes people angry just by being right, how does he do do it?
>>146107287Its funny how /co/ seems to have forgotten that most writers are leftists.
>>146111112>Disney was just buying empty theatresthat was for Captain Marvel
>>146111975Most of /co/ are election tourists and /v/irgins who still haven't figured out why villains lose.
>>146107248Alan Moore has never written a good story
>>146112009They have been saying that for various movie they don’t like but end up doing well at the box office.
>>146112066>why villains loseSome just count on support which isn't there.
>>146110046He's right thoThe fear that white people and cishet people will become the minority is a tacit admission that minorities are currently treated poorly. Racists, transphobes and homophobes are anxious that they will get a taste of their own medicine. They can't imagine having power in numbers and not using it to harm others.
>>146112066The fact that they claim superheroes comics, a genre where jews had a lot of contributions, as their is so damn funny too.
Fuck, this thread is bait central
>>146110055What book, anon?
>>146111962>rightJesus wept
>>146112127>The fearnobody is scared of you freaks>>146112127>white people will become the minoritywhite people are already minority, 7% of planet's populationNo quality food, no clean anything in the future as % becomes smaller and smaller. Nowhere to immigrate to either. Like crabs groids will bury themeselves >cishet will become the minorityno, because cishet aka normal people are the only people who Actually procreate, too bad for you it will be shitskin "cishets" and they will be throwing from the roofs the likes of you with no whites to protect you from them>>146112127>They can't imagine having power in numbers and not using it to harm others.whites were always minority on this planet, and whites are only people who leave after themselves civilization and working progress instead of shit.
>>146111047Every regulation and tax code the left champions ends up strangling any business smaller than Walmart while subsidizing the largest companies in the world.
>>146107248>>146107257>>146107273>>146107284The manchildren with stunted development are not voting for Trump, they're hardcore leftists pretending to be rebellious while simultaneously being used by big corporations and the State.Charismatic, populist leaders have existed for ever and have absolutely nothing to do with "fandom". The fact that Trump is the ONLY candidate is actually a symptom of how broken the US system is.Also, the toxic discourse behind elections is thanks to social media rewarding the worse aspects of human behavior to boost "engagement" and maximize ad-based revenue.
>>146107248>Watchmen authorper his (its/they/them) looney trooni "logic" where Stan Lee didn't "actually" create "SpoidaMain", didn't co-create shield throwing Captain America part of Avengers team , Moore Isn't "author" of Watchmen and anything besides V for Vendetta or From Hell but even then it can be a total ripoff. Entirety of Watchmen "groitness" is lifted from MOSTLY Jerry Siegel stuff as well as from things that came before Watchmen. Not only that, but there IS "Watchmen" solely because DC Comics shills it in the first place, tried make movie from it etc, from the obvious (to everyone) standpoint that they will own these characters more time than they have left completely owning Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and others.Not only that but Moore was fucked over by same type of people like Weisinger, who he not only praises but credits for creating Superman. >>146110046Absolutely correct >>146110100>His entire career is built on a medium he hatesPlain fact>>146110177>He doesn’t hate comicsMaybe he doesn't have "comics" but he absolutely hates superhero comics and superhero genre, that's why he is responsible for one of THE most damaging character assassinations of The Superhero ever made, while in the same breathe criticizing people that adapt "his" work for "inaccuracies".Not to mention that he is just unbelievably hypocritical dick and exactly the type of smelly people He "makes fun" of in all these recent interviews. Alan Moore being most clueless buffoon ever is really answers to me why exactly some Europeans weren't considered white back in the Days. >>146107759>declinefrom "people" like him it means things Are getting better. He is retard who is directly responsible for toxicity he writes/talks about.
>>146107248>FOOK OFF MILLER YOU CUNT, DA SPARTANS WERE 'OMOS! I READ IT INNA NOINTEEN SEVENTIES POP 'ISTORY BOOK I TELL YOU WOT>Mmmm yes, I WILL base my Jack the Ripper story off the most insane nonsense deboonked conspiracy theory, I read it inna nointeen seventies pop 'istory book I did
>>146108273Are you dumb??? Fan does not mean the same thing as fanatic while fed means the same thing as federal (agent). He is drawing a parallel and it's nothing deep but you think it it because you're just fucking dumb.
>>146107248I agree with everything he is saying except the right-wing part. I guess he is jaded from the watchmen fans who all try to larp as Rorschach. I would in general say most fandoms are very left leaning and majority female. The current situation with fandoms and how much they impact media is insane tho. There is a reason why much media peaked before the internet. Nowadays everything has to fucking pander to some small group that no normal adult can relate to. It's even worse in anime/manga where a small group of coomers has made 95% of all anime and some manga unwatchable/readable because of all the fucking fanservice.
>>146109342Yup I hate it. I could not care less who the author is as long as the story is good.
>>146113724Stan lee will be forgotten as soon as the nostalgia faggots die. Moore will be remembered for telling good stories that work across generations. They are not the same.
>>146113146>nobody is scared of you freaksyou do fear trans and gays people. That's why you keep creating propaganda, false narratives and support laws restricting to them. You do fear them. Otherwise you'd just live in cohesion with trans and gays people>no, because cishet aka normal people are the only people who Actually procreateAre we still doing the gay people can’t reproduce thing?Gay people don’t need to, straight people keep making new ones. :)And gay people have been able to do the necessary when they wanted kids since literally before recorded history. :)>too bad for you it will b-Taiwan and Thailand has officially legalized same-sex marriage, soon other countries will follow their step!And gee, it couldn't be because most of the people criticizing it in the western world are sick of having it shoved down their throats, and know the very, VERY bloody history of the spread of Christianity. If the taliban was in the west trying to force everyone to live under Sharia law the way the christofascists are with their religion, I bet people would be railing against it just as much. I know that makes way too much sense for "Christians" to understand though. Maybe should throw some contradictory fairy tale elements in the argument for them to take it seriously>white are minorityNo matter what the amount of white people will continue to decrease, why? Because the child of a black personality and a white person is considered black, whiteness is based on excluding as many people as possible. So yeah it will only ever decrease.>themselves civilization and working progress instead of shit.>no whites to protect you from themAh yes no country on the planet has a better record of respecting “indigenous cultures” than the UK and Spain.I wonder who it was that destabilized and stole all the resources from the places that they are complaining about?
>>146114059He should draw some rocks and go kick them.
>>146107325Have you ever read Adorno? He was a leftist that tried to illustrate the behaviors that lead to fascism, and it's a perfect microcosm for how leftists tend to pathologize everything as a part of some fascist pipeline. He seriously talked about how slamming your car door leads to the subliminal aggression that enables genocide, or how having locks on your doors enables a xenophobic, isolationist mindset, crazy shit like that.
>>146113724Holy moley, would you look at all that schizoid nonsense.
>>146107284>Our entertainments may be cancelled prematurely through an adverse fan reaction, and we may endure largely misogynist crusades such as Gamergate or ComicsgateI thought Moore was smarter than this.
>>146114197>tranny starting arguments about how hard trannies have itChances of this thread being deleted just went up 500%Stop promoting child mutilation and people will leave you alone, retard.
>>146114379It's still amusing, even 10 years on, that people think GamerGate was anything but a huge, albeit brief, boon to the personal careers of many talentless, obnoxious people who went on to convince the rest of the world that their ideology was the winning team, and while those cunts went on to produce nothing of value and fade into obscurity (especially after so many eventually realized that GG was right and most of them were psychotic grifters) every company that followed their marching orders and listened to the DEI/ESG/"Woke" bullshit found nothing but hardship, lost profits, and slipping stock value.It's actually quite amusing that someone who distrusts the media as much of Moore claims to would go and parrot the belief that rotten chuds are misrepresenting and crashing the reputation of otherwise good media. Like there's some huge crusade, rallying hundreds of millions of people around the globe to make The Marvels and Concord fail, and that it has nothing to do with those things being inherently bad, on top of being ideologically repulsive.
>>146107248Yeah man, imagine if you were asked about your rapey pal Gaiman instead of invited to bloviate/promote your dire prose works, wouldn't that be something?
>>146108229The mcu is a symptom of Hollywood’s addiction to the blockbuster. It’s like cmplaining about a crackhead constantly eating twinkies.
>>146108230He’s also pretending Comicsgate was ever a thing
>>146108572A boogeyman that weak liberals frighten themselves with
>>146114156Naw. Amazing Spider-Man is better than Moore's shit.
>>146107284>crusades such as Gamergate or Comicsgate from those who think “gate” means “conspiracy”, and that Nixon’s disgrace was predicated on a plot involving water,gonna have to give that a lol
>>146107300It's legitimately baffling that Moore is still going on about Boris Johnson when his current lead literally just said>Israel has a right to defend itself, but Iran doesn'tCome on, man.
>>146107248I never care what pedo communist says same as Miyazaki, Oshii mogs him in my book
>>146107325I was a young adult during the 2010s and I can tell you, fandom culture was a huge part of the Trump phenomenon, as well as the reaction to it. When you watched it play out in real time, it was easy to see the ideological throughline between gamergate and part of Trump's appeal, not just culturally but demonstrated in individuals I know.And I feel like that never left, and we're still living through it. Mainstream entertainment tries to score as many diversity points as it can as part of its attempt to have a broad appeal and to trigger the chuds for free marketing, and influencers professionally react with outrage at the wokeness with a regularity that feels like an assembly line. It's a symbiotic relationship that I think started in earnest with Ghostbusters 2016. But either way it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. The only sign of progress is that more and more people consider the whole thing embarrassing and not worth paying attention to.
>>146114638>talentless, obnoxious people who went on to convince the rest of the world that their ideology was the winning team,To be fair, if you convince the world your ideology is the winning team, then it actually is the winning team.
>>146111534It's still crazy to me that the pic related character was conceived in 1993.
>>146115171>Mainstream entertainment tries to score as many diversity points as it can as part of its attempt to have a broad appeallono it's for ESG payouts
>>146107300>Quite liking something is OK. You don’t need the machete or the megaphone.Damn... he really said it
>>146114156>Stan lee will be forgotten as soon as the nostalgia faggots die. Moore will be remembered for telling good stories that work across generations. They are not the same.Most of you "people" don't reproduce, meanwhile Stan Lee fans do. Two of the most famous Alan Moore things are now associated with Zack Snyder and Joel Silver adaptations of them First, and then only with comics if people care enough to actually read them, and most will drop V for Vendetta almost immediately and would never know that all people wearing Vs mask in the end is movie's adaptation instead of original idea.And without V for Vendetta Moore has : 19th century novel characters capeshit team, Silver Age Superman ripoff , Stan Lee's Marvel ripoff. Moore is literally known due to his faking fraud looney troon nostalgia meets diarrhea approach. Most won't even know that he did Spawn, New Blood and all those other eXtreme era comics. Meanwhile Stan Lee's face is will always be known because of Marvel movies and tv shows, and even DC stuff (Teen Titans Go!) and Stan Lee is The reason why anyone knows any "Alan Moore" or "Jack Kirby" and others in the first place! >>146114303Once again you can't even call me wrong so it is the only thing you are left with, empty projection.
>>146115205Only if that team actually wins. All they really accomplished is kicking off the age of consulting agency grifters preaching diversity and pronouns and that's already burning everyone involved quite badly
>>146107248"Everyone who disagrees with me is a fascist," a leftist schizo story.
>>146107369>contribute or create.like corpos do?
>>146107248Old news, Moore. We've been shitting on tribalism for years. Go back to jerking off to rape and shjt in your wizard dungeon and sniffing your oh so deep farts.
>>146115599fpbp /threadend of subject
>>146107248>populism badWhat do our defenders of democracy mean by this?
>>146111047>Then why are progressives consistently demanding more regulation, more taxes, more accountability, etc. for corporations and more environmental protections, advocate for unions and labour rights, etc.?none of these things are impervious to being implemented in a bad or hostile or scrupulous way. Speaking as though they are an automatic moral good is a non-starter in terms of convincing people of the argument.>it always so effectively fools morons like this guy to thinking progressives and corporations are joint from the hip...your lack of nuanced understanding is showing. You're having to paint the association they are pointing out as an automatic cooperative in order to have sufficient straw to stuff your argument. It doesn't have to be cooperative, it can also be predatory, parasitic, hostage capture, or it could even be circumstantial pressure beyond the 2 of them that leads to the situation of the ideological actions.>...everything you don’t like must be working for the polar opposite of your own political ideology?thats... literally what your argument has just attempted to do, by trying to make what progressives want a unidimensional good, whereby opposition is a unidemensional bad.
>>146114197>Because the child of a black personality and a white person is considered black, whiteness is based on excluding as many people as possiblehow long do you think it will stay that way?Seriously, lets say thats how it is right now, how long do you think it will be until people of non-white races begin treating mixed race like they treat whites?don't think it will happen? all you have to do is look at how the group identity treats people of its own group identity when they disagree currently. (black republican for example...)
>>146115726>Seriously, lets say thats how it is right now, how long do you think it will be until people of non-white races begin treating mixed race like they treat whites?NTA, but it already happens. Maybe not widespread, but I've seen people act like that. Even non-mixed people get that treatment that way if they're born outside, in a better country/area. The whole oreo thing with black people. I used to get that shit every time I went home to visit family in India, and its part of why I hate the country.Only a matter of time before it gets normalized on a larger scale.
>>146111534>>146115249Today this guy would be a far-leftist feminist like Movieblob and Dobson.
>>146115794of course it does, and another obvious example is Japan. but you at least understand the point, right? People who like to jump up and down with excitement and glee about how the race mixing is only going to diminish the whiteness as though the white is the source of the bad in the equation in their mind, and in the long run they don't seem to understand that it has nothing to do with whiteness and is a majority matter... and can't see far enough down the road of the consequences coming for a world view like that...
>>146109752>Liberals on the other hand could easily write a story about the worlds nicest billionaire because liberalism is a pro corporate ideology and generally very laissez faire about things. Exactly like modern conservatism, the billionaire just has to have a different dogwhistle
>>146115881Yeah, I'm agreeing with you. I was just pointing out that the shit already happens, so what you're saying its not much of a logical leap or some unthinkable scenario. It was meant to back up your post.
>>146115897>dogwhistlelmao shut up bitch.
>>146107248Alan Moore never Miss! I forget where the quote is from, but there was youtube video that I was watching is that said something to the effect of people who "dont want politics in their books or games or movies are actually super into politics, but on some subconscious level, they know that their politics are pretty shitty or impossible to portray as not cartoonishly evil". That's why they don't like it in media. Its impossible to consume media like Star Trek or Star Wars and not notice all the good guys are open-minded, empathetic, and generally left-leaning (how hard it leans varies)Which is why Nu-Trek or ST upsets them very much
>>146115649Populism isn't about giving actual solutions, it's about telling people what they want to hear in order to empower the politician.Both left and right politicians can be populists. There are populists you like and populists you hate, because they cultivate large followings by telling you that all your problems will disappear if you just let them get rid of an entire group of people.Hitler and Netanyahu are good examples of populists.
>>146115897It also explains why they speak in euphemisms. They don't say what they want, they don't say what they dislike. They say they don't want "politics".But even just not wanting to see the things they don't want to see is also "politics."
>>146107248I know a good deal of you will have kneejerk reactions to what he's saying, but I think he has a good point overall. Even if you disagree on some of the finer points (e.g. him blaming conservatives), the overall message is quite accurate.
you amerigringos are having these kinds of threads because the election is happening 9 days, right? that's why you are all crying and pissing and sobbing at each other.
>>146115982too chicken to say it?My favorite is when right-wingers fully go up their own asses and adopt 4chan-coded language and names, like "noticer" and "fren".As if normal people don't know what they're doing, but they're too committed to the bit and to their own cowardice to let up.
>>146116031There is no euphemism, "politics" means exactly that - your dogshit political opinions that take the form of extremely dogmatic moralizing, heavy handed proselytizing, and outright grooming.
>>146115991>Its impossible to consume media like Star Trek or Star Wars and not notice all the good guys are open-minded, empathetic, and generally left-leaningYou've never watched Star Trek, have you?
>>146116127Now you're just jumping at shadows. You're too far up your own ass to realize what a transparent faggot you sound like when you trot out your gay little buzzwords and your reddit tranny circlejerk rhetoric.
>>146116128Triggered.
>>146116074Give us a break. The terminally single are always going to complain and any of us with women in our lives are either outright fighting with them or, worse, NOT having the arguments we should be having with them in the runup to the election.
>>146107248I would take his opinions more seriously if I hadn't read his recent works.
>>146116137Do you?And what exactly do right wing conservatives find appealing about Star Trek? It’s literally a post capitalist utopia build on principles of tolerance and inclusion.They love to complain about liberals cramming politics into everything but the fail to comprehend that when you’re a targeted minority, you can’t even take a piss without it being political. Get fucked
>>146115815I sometimes wonder if he's playing a character that he just never breaks out of
>>146116395It's also built on merit, hard work, racial blindness, exalts the classical works and philosophies of the classic liberal thinkers, and rejects petty tribalism and ideological zealotry. Star Trek isn't compatible with modern leftist thinking and it's fucking hilarious how hard you have to try to pretend that anything in Trek aligns with your overly emotional psychotic behavior.>fail to comprehend that when you’re a targeted minority, you can’t even take a piss without it being politicalThe collective decades of Star Trek media laugh in your face for unironically believing such childish drivel.
>>146116395They missed all that and focused only on the gun fights. Guaranteed
>>146116074Yes Paco we're fighting over who owns your ass for the next four years.
>>146116507>gun fights>Not Gorn fights.
>>146115815I think he could go to either political extreme. In fact I think the extremism is more important than which particular brand of politics it is
>>146116408lol
>>146116507You shouldn't pretend to know Trek if you're just going to say retarded things like that.
>>146115460Stan Lee fans don't reproduce genetically because their kids were sired by their wife's black boyfriend. Meanwhile, chad Moore fans reproducing purely through rape.
>>146116753He would start left wing, then after failing to gain traction in the echo chamber he'd go to the right as a "classic liberal."
>>146116824I've only ever seen it go in the opposite direction (e.g. the Amazing Atheist)
>>146107248>>146107257>>146107273>>146107284>>146107300I've picked-up some interesting patterns of thought in this. I'll comment on some of themFirstly, Alan Moore here seems to have some very peculiar thoughts on the nature of maturity and it's relation to media. He appears to denigrate certain types of entertainment and their fans on the basis that they're far too childish and stuck in the past. He (rather curiously) cites his own 15-year-old self and his friends from this period as examples to emulate, in that they disdained the old and childish nature of comics at that point and desired for their hobby to seem more "grown-up". However, I would have to agree with C. S. Lewis on this matter, and say that this is, in itself, a very juvenile impulse. He appears, both then, and today, to be overly concerned with his appearance before a group of peers (which might very well be imaginary), and desires to improve the image of himself and his interests by making them look more mature, while detesting those who did not follow suit. This is not a really mature attitude, as growth should be about adding to one's tastes rather then merely changing them. He does not gain much by simply abandoning the "costumed musclemen" type of comics, in favor of another kind. This isn't to say that to desire a more mature kind of comic is bad (it's quite good in fact), but rather to treat it as the only right way to make a comic can (and does) produce many issues which are simply awful. Indeed, this can at times be seen in Moore's own work, much of which contributed to the world of comics positively, but frequently have qualities which detract from themselves and have had a negative influence in this sphere, all in the search of maturity.
>>146116843Another interesting theme here is Moore's insistence that people who don't enjoy new comics are curmudgeons. This is somewhat surprising given the fact that he gives a long list of reasons why new comics shouldn't be any good in the same interview, largely bolstered by his own particular brand of classism. for example, see this quote here:>And while the vulgar comic story was originally proffered solely to the working classes, soaring retail prices had precluded any audience save the more affluent; had gentrified a previously bustling and lively cultural slum neighbourhood.He seems to suggest here that, as a result of economic conditions, the comic-book industry has re-orientated itself to focus on singular market: the disdained middle-age white conservative males. However, if that was the case, why are they the ones that seem to hate it's current condition the most? Why are they the first to complain, and last to laud? Is it not possible that the consumers never really changed, and that it's merely the publishers themselves that have stagnated and decayed? He doesn't seem to give this idea any consideration whatsoever, and i think it's odd that he would do so.Of course, there's the obviously absurd thesis present here as well. Most anons have already detailed how little sense this makes, so i'll cover it only briefly. Asserting that the many political woes of today can be contributed to fandom culture is putting the cart before the horse, as the causes are clearly either things which humanity has had to deal with since time immemorial, or have arisen from more recent conditions which have little to nothing to do with fandoms. His statements to the contrary show what a myopic view of the world Moore has developed, and demonstrates that he's losing touch.
>>146116858Finally, I will say this much in agreement with Moore; I agree wholeheartedly that many people have become far too passive when it comes to the enjoyment of many forms of media. They complain endlessly, but rarely do any of them attempt to make their own art and express themselves, instead waiting for someone else to do it for them. It is endlessly frustrating to view this attitude, as it only encourages the artistic bankruptcy apparent all around us
>>146115991That because they’re creatively stunted. Their worldview revolves around strict rules of heteronormativity and cisgender identity.
>>146116843>>146116858>>146116874It's easy to level the accusation that "you're not making anything, you're just complaining!". If you can provide a crew, budget and media connections then sure. Until then the average amateur creator is not going to make it to the mainstream.
>>146115991obvious bait is obvious, but i'll take a fat bite out of it anyways. When people say they don't want politics in their entertainment, they mean they don't want a chiding lecture directed at them. Something which seriously deals with political subjects is interesting, something which just talks down to the audience about why they're wrong about everything is fucking annoying, regardless of who it's coming from. It's why shit like Kamen America or America Chavez are both shit; they're so blatantly partisan and obnoxious about it that only a genuine political cultist can find them entertaining or enjoyable. Hell, the quote you posted is, in itself, a perfect example of this. Rather than seriously dealing with the objection to politics, the guy just assumes it can only arise from someone having a position he disagrees with, and dismissing it out of hand using some dumb-ass armchair psychology. It's peak Bulverism.
>>146116031>They say they don't want "politics".It's DEI now
>>146107248I'll translate from fog-breathing boomerbrain>Once upon a time I gave my out of touch shitlib opinion and someone from the US called me a faggot and now that lives rent free in my head>I hated that comicbooks were not taken seriously because the subject matter was effectively about homoerotic clowns in spandex>rather than complain on the internet that didn't exist, me and my edgy teenage peers would get drunk and go suck each other off in a basement while talking about how well our edgy comics would sell and "elevate the medium">I hate people who like things, and so those people are in my mind the thing I hate most: conservative white guys of whom I can't recognize as the most likely group to think that the industry I worked in was for gay godless retards>I'll never recognize that an ungatekept fandom dies out the same way an ungatekept country does>I'll never acknowledge "gates" are coined by morally defunct product journalist shills lumping all detractors together and calling them istaphobes in an effort to deny all criticism the exact way I am right now because I'm a fat old rape loving libtarded faggot>I wish more of the smelly brown horde would come in to rape, rob and murder our women and children while the EU fucks my whole country sideways>I am still very sorry and ashamed to have been born a white male who in moments of weakness had hetero sex with a woman who didn't abort thus decreasing the overall diversity of my country for a time, but I am sure it was all part of Glycon's plan.
>>146107248Yep that sounds like a rambling of an old man.Better question why does he care? you got grandchildren dude, play Pokemon with them or something.
>>146117650>you got grandchildren dude, play Pokemon with them or something.he is the pokemon.
>>146117650>Imagine your grandpa being Alan Moore.Poor little bastard.
>>146113146>white people are already minority, 7% of planet's populationA quick google search shows it's 16%, still very low but more than double your figure.
>>146117322Hopefully after the election all the bots, shills, and niggers will leave this site and go dormant until the next retard contents in 4 years.
>>146118086Yeah I wish it was 1999 again too.
>>146111975>Its funny how /co/ seems to have forgotten that most CURRENT writers are leftists>>146112066villains as in Ultra-Humanite an evil man inside woman's body>>146112239>The fact that they claim superheroes comics, a genre where jews had a lot of contributions, as their is so damn funny toojews =/= libtard views
>>146118086Can Trump run for third term? He is already COMPLETELY post-Crisis Lex Luthor'ed with recent assassination attempt, can we make him into Ronald Raegan/Richard Nixon from TDKR/Watchmen already?
>>146110263 >>146107248>to be a rip-offer of the greats while completely undermining said greats
>>146111975How's that going for them?
>>146118277>Can Trump run for third term?No one can. Although if he won (he won't) he'd be dumb enough to try.
>>146117045You don’t need to break into the mainstream. Most creative people never do. But they still do the work instead of wasting all their time biching.
>>146117690He draws you a comic for your birthday where Santa Claus comes down the chimney to rape and murder millions of children in the span of a single night.
>>146111975Most current writers are liberals, not leftists. Some of the older writers who have been around a while are leftists though.
>>146119275>t-t-they not actually the same!I’m so sick of you faggots doing this.
He's right. It applies a bit more to video game fans who are far more and obsessive than comic book fans.Comic fans are at the least smarter in knowing how comics are made and the talent behind them
>>146119297If you don't acknowledge the difference, you're the reason people make any sort of distinction at all.
>>146119297It's what they always do. They change the words so they can deny what they were blatantly saying or promoting seconds earlier, or they attempt to divide everything into increasingly granular categories to make you waste time arguing over definitions instead of getting to the meat of the matter. Their masters and patrons call it pilpul.
>>146118302 >>146107248>while completely undermining said greats
>>146107248>‘Fandom has toxified the world’: Watchmen author Alan Moore on superheroes, Comicsgate and TrumpWith this you know that it is not worth continuing reading.
>>146117850>A quick (((google))) search shows it's 16%, still very low but more than double your figure.>16% within marginal error, so 7% is for sure
>>146114277Kek
>>146115171You are a zoomer who does not understand what happened and you believe the explanation of the elites.
>>146111908>Comicsgate was mistakeNo, the mistake was letting the SJWs take control of the industry.
>>146120765The anti-SJWs dropped the ball, like they continue to do today. A lot of the anti-leftist sentiment comes from anger-blind, self-defeating morons, and I really, really wish that weren't the case because I despise the current progressive movement.
>>146120928
>>146121055Case in point. On the same side, and fuckers won't even talk to you. How are we supposed to win?
>>146121146By stocking as many pop corn as possible and waiting.
>>146116478>rejects petty tribalism and ideological zealotry.So.. conservative? The funny thing is this is how a lot of cons view the situation. They know their party went full mask off and just started being lunatics, but rather than blame their party for being lunatics, they blame Obama for having the gall to run for President, essentially forcing the Republicans party’s hand into showing their true colors.In good ol’ republican fashion, rather than get angry at the person with a pile of skeletons in their closet, they get made at the dude who opened the door, and justify it with “well we wouldn’t have to deal with the moral issue of them being fucking nuts if you hadn’t exposed them as being fucking nuts, so know who’s the asshole?”>Star Trek isn't compatible with modern leftist thinking and it's fucking hilarious how hard you have to try to pretend that anything in Trek aligns with your overly emotional psychotic behavior.Oh my anon in denial again!Remember when Rom unionized? a Ferengi quoting Marx was amazing!Also old star trek had an entire episode dedicated to women having the right to an abortion. Like not even hidden behind allegory, but it's MODERN star trek that's gone "woke"..
>>146121146I just said you were projecting, which you were.Besides, we already won, the industry is about to die.
>>146121521you can be progressive and still "go woke", redditor.
>>146120457>Picrel>TexasAnd Texas is red state, very curious
>>146121681As I understand it, the capital of this state is progressive.
>>146121834Since when does this matter when all the state officials are Rs and the majority in the legislature are Rs? Are they stupid?
>>146116027>Populism isn't about giving actual solutions, it's about telling people what they want to hear in order to empower the politician.No, that is the definition of the elites.
>>146121975>Are they stupid?Yes
>>146116843/thread
>>146110126>the Beatles and ElvisThey had an image that was important part of their output. Not so for comic book writers.>>146116843I want to say he was more concerned with the recognition of the medium so that it could improve in quality and substance, not with appearing more adult. If that was his main concern, he would have moved onto media that was widely recognized by adults.
>>146121521>Oh my anon in denial again!>Remember when Rom unionized? a Ferengi quoting Marx was amazing!You really want to use the Ferengi quoting Marx who nearly let his brother die as your example of enlightened leftist thinking?
The problem with fandom is that you can just identify as a fan as all this stuff is products you buy (and you don't even have to buy it to call yourself a fan); there is no organisation to join or test to do. People claim the past had gatekeeping but it really didn't, not in the way or degree that people claim. What the past did have is that you had to at least physically go somewhere like a con or produce something like a fanzine, that small bit of effort at least meant they had to engage something other than themselves to show their passion. Fans of the past moaned just like fans do now, they collectively complained and did the same fan purity tests. I do just think the incessant moaning exists everywhere but with comics being a small pond it feels so concentrated and all-encompassing. Having worked in an LCS I felt that from the doom and gloomers completely antithetical to the normal people picking up books. The sky is falling attitude creates the problems as much as anything. Moore created some good works, but the industry didn't shift in any great way to properly try new or different things. I find it so difficult to talk about comics because it feels like all people want to do is talk them down and diminish them. Some people like Moore because they want their comics to be taken seriously but then also hate him for criticising the things they enjoy; so many people just have a shallow appreciation of so much stuff that they sometimes can't see beyond but I can't even hate on them since so many comics are just disposable entertainment. I just think all interests are becoming harder to talk about because the Internet, attention spans and the rest of it. The anger Moore or others sees is a result of that somewhat, but he doesn't really touch on it. Kids would chat and trade comics. Adults would chat and shoot the shit. Nowadays we just constantly get mad online and sharing our thoughts on the madness has become a pointless exercise in armchair philosophy.
>>146123050>People claim the past had gatekeeping but it really didn't, not in the way or degree that people claim.In the past there were a lot less fake fans. Comics used to be marketed towards young males and had a masculine appeal. Nowadays comics are full of faggotry, feminism, and trannies, aimed at a completely different demographic. There’s nothing in common between a fan that read Superman comics in the 90s and a “fan” that likes posting about Superman’s gay son on tumblr. The latter feels gatekept, because they know they don’t belong in the traditional fandom.
>>146114379Joke's on you, innit
>>146116705Basedly clever
>>146107353Complete bullshit. Also upthe ra
>>146118580It would have to be a corruption of an existing story, nothing original.
>>146121535>the industry is about to die>nobody can have fun and everybody hates meIs that really a W?
>>146121681I pretty sure texas intentionally misleading it for culture war and "gotcha" for white supremacists
>>146107300>An enthusiasm that is fertile and productive can enrich life and society, just as displacing personal frustrations into venomous tirades about your boyhood hobby can devalue them. Quite liking something is OK. You don’t need the machete or the megaphone.today and forever, alan moore knows the score
>>146123594>>nobody can have funSounds like a personal issue.Not my fault you guys decided to destroy all your entertainment industries for no reason.
>>146123338>In the past there were a lot less fake fans.I mean, if you were openly a fan of something, it's because you could take it. Bizarre how pretending to be crazy for something now is supposedly to give you some kind of social life "credit" even if you can't own up to it.
All the people shitting on Moore then repeating their own bullshit culture wars shit stirring generalizations are hypocrites. Just doing the same shit he is doing.
>>146123338>In the past there were a lot less fake fansThere has always been fake fans. People trying to fit in with others or thinking that it would give them something or people buying into a hobby or scene.
>>146116395>the moron thinks all right wing conservatives are racist
>>146123623what is that anime?
>>146123623>>146123795I also want to add that you said the same thing I was thinking.
>>146123338>>146123629>>146123688>fake fanscringe
>>146123795Negaposi AnglerIt's a decent show about fishing.
>>146123807You are very cringe.
>>146123688He didn't say there were no fake fans in the past, dipshit. He said there were a lot less.
>>146123669Not really. Like other anons have pointed out the majority of dudes obsessing over comic book movies and Pokemon type shit are varrying degrees of liberal yet uses trump supporters to articulate his point. He's very divorced from reality regardless of what other bullshit is spewed in this thread.
>>146115460Ask anyone the age of 15 and below who the fuck stan lee is and none will know. >>146115101Spiderman is genuinly made for retards, streetshitters and spics. Any normal human finds him lame
>>146123629Being a fan of something isn’t worthy of an award or anything, but nobody likes poser that tries to be something they’re not or claims to like something they know little of. This applies to anything, not just fandoms.And this becomes a much worse problem when companies make big changes to try appealing to this new niche audience.>>146123688Yes but it was far less of an issue back then. The only way you could learn about comics was by reading them. And there were little to no internet forums, you’d mostly interact with others fans at cons, which mainly invested people went to.Now you have “fans” that watch a youtube video essay to learn about a character, then read/write gay fan-fiction on Archive of Our Own.
>>146107248>Alan Moore makes attention whoring pseudointellectual "controversial" statements to shockjockey for some more attentionIs it a day ending with y already? Seriously why do you faggots always end up acting surprised by this he's always been a shitty hack writer coasting off of shitstirring. He'll make up whatever faggot shit he thinks will sell his brand and has been like that for longer than most of the fags on this board have been alive. When he was writing watchmen he waffled on and on constantly talking out bothsides of his mouth about it being "Apolitical" one moment and then a "critique" or attack on "insert popular political figure to attack here" the next.
>>146125737He'd be quickly dismissed if he were a shitty hack writer.
>>146125737You can actually smell the bitter seethe from this post across the internet.
>>146125956Getting grandfathered in because some faggots thought you were so original when they were 12 40 fucking years ago will do that.>>146126016You can smell the cope and total lack of an argument from this post from just about anywhere.
>>146113699There are no lefties making grifter clickbait youtube videos about their favorite media with lazy outrage and toxic entitlement. The closest is Breadtubers which typically release hour-long essays once every few months on broad topics. Not saying all bad fans are chuds, but all chuds are atrocious fans with very bad understanding of media, which is indistinguishable in the stunted entitlement factor for them to say, Videogames.
>>146107248He's a little late to the party on the whole culture is dying thing. That started with the invention of television and probably even before that.
>>146108857>There are, of course, entirely benign fandoms, networks of cooperative individuals who quite like the same thing, can chat with others sharing the same pastime and, importantly, provide support for one another in difficult times.You absolutely have to kick purposefully incendiary people out to maintain this, and that's getting harder to do.
>>146123825thank you
>>146123851>no ucringe
>>146125737this
I just blew my nose so hard it popped and this bloody flesh thing came out, now I can breathe so good I can smell colours
>>146107248>le fascistsI'm so sick of leftists calling everyone they don't like a fascist. It completely undermines any semblence of a point they may have had.
>>146126503George Orwell literally said fascism had become a meaningless term DURING WW2. Because it had already become reduced to just an insult rather than any meaningful categorisation.
>>146107248
>>146121594Problem with that statement is that chuds consider anything remotely progressive as "Woke"Heck, it doesn't even have to be progressive, it can be something as normal as women and minorites existing to offend their sensitive asses.>Video Game Woke Game List having Dave the Diver in it and listing one of the reasons as "Has a black guy"
>>146126503Yet you keep calling everyone a Marxist and/or communist.
>>146107325The man who got voted into the office in part through co-opting of the warhammer 40k fandom and its memes. The fucking "God Emperor of Mankind" candidate?How could he possibly be related talking about fandoms and their putrid influence upon workings of society?
>>146126455Ah, could be that you got polyps.You should go visit a doctor to see if you can prevent it growing back. Otherwise you might need a surgery later to remove it again, once it regrows with deeper roots.
>>146127360Go back
>>1461279764/10 bait, got me to respond
>>146127976>The man who got voted into the office in part through co-opting of the warhammer 40k fandom and its memes. The fucking "God Emperor of Mankind" candidate?How could he possibly be related talking about fandoms and their putrid influence upon workings of society?Stop trying to connect everything to your shit smeared, autistic obsession. Only you and a couple of hundred thousand other paypigs could give anything less of a shit about your silly space men with colour coded personalities, 40k literally has less less reach than the US comics market. You people really are this decade's bronies
>>146128061>>146128100Fucking grandmas on facebook were voting for the "Emperor fighting for God".Yeah, no one gave a shit, for sure.
>>146128100but... 40k is older than bronies...
>>146128170Image is from an Italian carnival in 2019, three years after Trump was elected, and clearly intended to take the piss, satire lost on Americans.>Fucking grandmas on facebook were voting for the "Emperor fighting for God".Of course they were. Screencaps or fuck off back to your containment board
>>146128193My Little Pony debuted in 1981, 40k in 88. Modern 40k fans who crib information from YouTube summaries of terrible Dan Abnett novels and sperg out about power levels and atheism are an entirely new phenomenon. t. autistic Wargamer since the early 90s who definitely has lead poisoning
>>146128236>Wargamer since the early 90s who definitely has lead poisoningDefinitely sounds like it.Also 40k is shit.
>>146128286This! I've always preferred the dragons and rectangles game and have barely touched 40k since they binned off squats at the start of third in 98
>>146128336Fantasy is shit too.Warhammer is shit.
>>146128353Yeah, but it's a sunk cost fallacy by now, and I'd much rather channel my autism into dwarfs than anything productive
>>146123807>>fake fans>cringehow can you explain this >>146120418 >>146118302 >>146113724>>146124309even less will know what the fuck Alan Moore means , let alone stuff like 1963
>>146128236Bronies were only really a thing at G4, from late 2010.
>>146128617And GW/40k exploded in popularity from around 2017, only getting bigger during lockdown, go figure.Both things had been around for decades before attracting dreadful new audiences
>>146127368But they are all marxists! That's not an insult, it's a statement of fact.
>>146127368
>>146120457>marginal errorNot sure if you're joking, typo, or actually stupid
>>146130027Notice you can never Actually Call me wrong.
>>146107784Gen 1’ers. Usually fans who have been around since the 1st generation of Pokemon. These same fans bitch about later generations despite the fact they were also children when Pokemon launched. They claim to be better, more authentic fans, since they were around from the beginning.
