Stephanie Brown was at her best when she was just Spoiler.She can still be part of the Bat-Family, but she doesn't have to be "the other Batgirl".
>>146134617I liked Steph as Robin and Batgirl but you can’t beat her as Spoiler. Also, Steph’s character declined the more she revolved around Tim.
*gets Steph knocked up*
>>146134617I miss this costume.
>>146135549But will he take responsability?
>>146136093He'd probably do it and try to be the father figure he and Steph didn't get growing up.
>>146135549Imagine is Jason turned out to be the guy who knocked Steph up during No Man’s Land.
>>146136275Bruce probably would have thrown Jason's ass out on the curb.
>>146135549Dick or Jason shoulda gotten someone knocked uo by now. Gotta carry Bruce's legacy.
>>146136131That'd be their happy ending.
>>146136385Dick is the type of loser who treats his dog as a child. Jason probably has a mulatto child running around in Gotham after banging some random waitress.
>>146136459Jason really is carrying on Bruce's legacy.
>>146136478You think Bruce and Jason would ever bond over the time they both got raped by Talia?
>>146136360Well Bruce wouldn’t have known Jason was alive at the time and Steph wouldn’t have known who he was.
>>146136653Oh okay I get what you’re saying: in that case, things would have played similarly as they did in NML, only Jason never shows up until UTRH, so Steph assumes he probably went missing or died in the gang wars. Then when he does show up as Red Hood, Steph realizes she got knocked up by the second Robin.
>>146136487>both have a moment of not talkin about it with beer.>both are most likley thinkin of that evil booty >both are still keeping quiet about thier mommy issues.
>>146136836>”This isn’t the first the time I got fucked over by a mother figure. First time it was literal.”
>>146134617The sad part is that actual Steph fans know this for a fact, but the vocal self-inserters on social media throw a fit when she doesn't have a mantle she didn't need in the first place.
>>146136487Didn't Talia try to rape Tim as well?
>>146136972he could make it a third time.
>>146136995I get that Batgirl is a bigger name with bigger importance overall, but that doesn't mean Steph should be that, it's like saying she should be Wonder Woman because it's a more important identity, ideally, Steph should make a name for herself with her own identity that is unique to her, being Batgirl, specially now that Cass is back as the main Batgirl, just makes her seem like the "lesser Batgirl".
>>146137033>specially now that Cass is back as the main Batgirl, just makes her seem like the "lesser Batgirl".Editorial do it on purpose. They don’t want Steph to get over, they want Cass to be their star.
>>146134617Why would you post this without a spoiler warning???
>>146137107Being a blonde white girl character at DC right now is negative.I'm glad they're at least using Cass instead of making up a whole new character for the diversity push at least.
>>146137018While Steph sleeps after they have sex, Jason cries a little.
>>146137257Not you too, she says, worried that jason is ALSO going to be a fucking fruit.
>>146137269He puts her at ease when he tells her it’s because of how much he hates his father figure.
In this thread, will Tim regain his lost respect?No.
>>146137177I like all these characters minus the Green Arrows ones.
>>146137568She died because editorial wanted her to die. Simple as. Could've easily wrote her surviving and being just as competent as the others, which she becomes anyway.
>>146137568Hey retard, these aren’t real people. Ask the editors why they did her character dirty.
I miss her. I know she’s not gone, but I miss her.
Fun fact: both Jason and Steph’s former love interests are both gay now!
Just imagine>Live action Red Hood movie>Lower budget vigilante flick>Not connected to the DCEU>Standalone story. No setup for other movies.>Steph's the love interest.>No Batgirl. Just Spoiler.>Cluemaster's in.>Only other hero that exists (so far) is Batman.>As far as the movie's concerned, Jason was the only Robin.
>>146137744>Steph's the love interest.Already it's terrible.
>>146137895Nah, it’s kino.
>>146137599Did we have another Solemini driveby?
>>146136487Like, at the same time?How'd that work? Did she DV them or was Dick in the pink and Jason in the stink?
>>146137107Cass can be the star, just don't throw Steph under the bus for it.
One of Steph's best looks
Bump
>>146137107Which is kind of amazing, considering how editorial spent burying any Batgirl who wasn't Barbara.
>>146136995>>146137033As much fun as Steph's original run as Batgirl was, the actual fans seem more concerned with just keeping her around than with having her be Batgirl. It feels like she just got co-opted by the people who wanted Babs to not be Batgirl and were really angry about her, mostly Cassfags and Nightwing/Starfire shippers. There'll probably be less demand now Cassfags are getting what they want.People who actually like her are mostly fine with her being Spoiler.
I wonder how it feels to kiss a fully masked girl
Steph = pink nipplesCass = brown nipplesSteph > Cass
>>146138935> just don't throw Steph under the bus for it.Someone post that panel of Bruce and Cass at Jason’s grave where they shit on both Steph and Jason.
>>146140006DC isn’t a mono entity, basically all the people who dislikedCass are long gone except Jim Lee, who’s actually drawing her a bit more now.
>>146134617I think part of the problem is that Gotham itself is so completely considered "bat territory" that any cape that stays there for a prolonged period of time becomes a bat character by association. I think the only character to ever avoid this was Hitman, and that was probably because the character died.
>>146141670>basically all the people who dislikedCass are long gone except Jim LeeThey just brought Jeph Loeb back.Lee and Loeb were some of the most influential haters too, them leaving Cass out of Hush is what started the trend of DC not treating her as a real character.
>>146141670God I wish Tomasi was still in DC. Dude wrote a damn good GLC and kept the Cassfags in check
>>146141731Peter Tomasi should be killed for what he's done.
>>146141774For Making GL good for the first time in thirty years?
>>146141798You know what I'm talking about. He deserves death. Him and all like him.
>>146141866No I don’t know know what you’re talking about
>>146141705Loeb isn’t an editor and I doubt he’ll be there as regularly as he was in the early 2000s. The current bateditorial are clearly Cass fans and Loeb will be off doing his own thing. The only reason Hush empowered Cass erasure is because the editorial that came in after Dennis O’Neil saw Cass as a white elephant left by the previous tenants and didn’t want her
>>146138186It happened on separate occasions, and she banged Jason when he was like 17.
>>146136995>>146137033I know people feel she doesn't need it, but her becoming Batgirl did feel like a big break for her and progression for a character who kept getting knocked back for years.I want to be hopeful she can make it as Spoiler again, but I have my doubts.
>>146136275Even Jason wasn't dead by then he would have been in a coma.Which adds a whole lot more questions.
>>146143377Nice pic
How would you guys react what if DC announced that Steph and Jason were retiring and they would not be getting any more appearances?
>>146143449reference to this page.L'il Steph a cute
>>146143479>house on fire>no parents around>saved by a future StephYeah I’m calling it kino
>>146143577>mom left the oven on before going out for her meds again huh?>yep>Don't worry kid, we've got chicken nugget happy meal money now,our treat>Can we get two? I can make that last the week>And an apple pie
>>146144078>Hey kid, hold on to this card.>Tim Drake and Dean?>These are bad people, do not be their girlfriends. Okay, I have to go to the future. Bye!
>>146144558>Why doesn't Dean have a last name?>We never got it. Anyway, when you're 14 you're gonna think he's cool because he has tattoos and can drive. Don't go into his car, 30 seconds can have repercussions for 9 months.
>>146144862Then six months after this, Steph wakes up screaming to herself wondering why she didn’t include the Gotham Powerball numbers.
>>146143479I want to punt her.
>>146145937>t. Tim
>>146141690People forget that there’s more to New Jersey than just Bludhaven and Gotham, but Jason has dibs on Gotham because he as actually born in it.
>>146141690Etrigan and Alan Scott also called Gotham home at one point, among others.
>"Steph, please take me back. I made a big fucking mistake. Bernard, he... well he's into sick shit and I've checked with ten plastic surgeons, and they tell me there's no chance in hell my ass is going back to normal. Please Steph, I know you're mad at me but I want to get back. I'm was a fool and-is that Jason on the other end? Steph? Steph? FUCK!"
>>146143392>he would have been in a coma.Easy retcon. He was awake, fucked Steph and No Man's Land and Under the Hood took place very close together.
>>146146933This, the next guy who would have taken Starlin's job would have had Jason back in action.
>>146143377It would be good progression but only if Cass died for good/became Batwoman or something, it made some sense back when Cass was in Hong Kong or something, but not anymore.For as long as Cass, and even Babs, still have a claim for the Batgirl mantle, it's not good for Steph to also have it.
>>146147265>Cass becomes BatWOMAN>Steph becomes BatGIRLSteph still can't win.
>>146147519She doesn't have to be a bat at all, let her be Spoiler dammit.
>>146134617I miss Steph's dirtbike
>>146147580She also had that car in Robins
I miss it when Batman comics were street-level shenanigans. It feels like the last few years have been really stupid.
>>146140115If DiDio were to be believed anyway, Steph wound up some "process of elimination" choice since he didn't want Bette, Wendy, or Misfit as Batgirl.
>>146148585I want to explore that man's twisted mind. He has so many bad ideas but he's so damn confident in them.
>>146134617Was Spoiler at her best when Black Mask had her battered ample teen body strung up in his torture room?
No DiDio.
If I was DiDio, I would have had Jason save Steph and faking her death to show her the pain of losing another Robin. Never liked how they had to assassinate Leslie Thompkins'.
>>146148954That would've been better in hindsight.
>>146150127Damn, I meant Batman, to show Batman the pain of losing another Robin. God, 2005 onward to 2008 was such a terrible time read Batman comics if you actually cared about the cast.
>>146150189I got it by context lol. An arc where Jason saves Steph and uses her as a bit of a pawn while Steph is torn between seeing things Jason's way and realizing how far he's going and wanting to do well by Batman, and Jason trying to make her realize how close to death she came.
>>146150189Jason was already back by the time Hush happened. War Games ended right before Under the Hood, so it's plausible for Jason to have saved her.
>>146151203UTH also has Jason at war with Black Mask, so it adds another level that he'd be targeting him
>>146134617Correct.Cassfans won.
>>146151341Which is good, because she's the best Batgirl.
>>146151341At being redditors.
Remember that time the Riddler was living in her house with his lesbians?
>>146150759Could've been a good substitute for the Mia story, and you'd erase the whole shit flinging between Bat and Arrow fans over that.
>>146148954Need some Winick for Steph to get on this for a DTV idea one day.War Games adaptation with twist.
>>146152122Could be a great prequel to Under the Red Hood.
>>146151717Eeeh
>>146151717She’s not even the second best.
>>146148954Why do you think Denny O'Neil was livid over DiDio's diddling trying to sabotage his bat line?Remember that they had Catwoman raped in a ditch unconscious as a fuck you towards the old man, also the entire jim gordon retirement being he and the editorial calling out DC on sabotage and going scott free because of the higher ups aka HARRAS.
>>146154068Wtf Catwoman got raped?
>>146148954Leslie Thompkins was such an important character to humanize Bruce and she never recovered from that bullshit.
>>146154167Yeah, her last comic after denny left the batman editorial has her shot, falling off a building into a trash bin and implied to be raped by the homeless and mooks below since her clothes were ripped.And that led to that shitty revival where modern catwoman was born and people curses DC til this day.
>>146154203And then they threw the old costume in the trash.Irony is the goggle costume only really caught on when they made it as sexualized as the purple one anyway.
Anyone go back to the Arkham games and realized that they’re kinda boring because the plot is Batman is grimacing all the time and barely talks to anyone?
>>146154281I hate 2000's DC from the bottom of my soul for all of the edgelord shit that happened after JLA Avengers since Identity Crisis was after it.
>>146154281Was anyone really attached to the purple costume anyway? It's really boring.
>>146154412Jim Balant was, I assume.
>>146154429The genius creative visionary who brought us Tarot.
>>146154429Glad Jim didn’t give her tacky heels
>>146154412It was probably Catwoman's most popular era, so yes
>>146151717I really like Cass as a character, but the hardline insistence that' she's best Batgirl almost has the same energy as "Die Hard is a Christmas movie!" or things like Weapon Brown that take cutesy characters and make them badass(yes I know Weapon Brown is a parody.)Like, see this cute thing? What if it was BADASS!?Cass herself is a great character, but the Batgirl mantle will always default to being a cute girl in a traditionally cute/sexy batsuit to most people. Cass being a badass fighter in a scary/erotic batsuit will always seem out of place. Even if she's arguably the best to wear the mantle.
>>146154412If it seems boring, it's only because it seems like a basic costume- but it was the first real hybrid of all the prior Catwoman costumes in comics. Catwoman had only really started wearing a cowled catsuit a few years before with Year One, and it was the whiskered, gray, big eared costume. Her classic, GA costume had the cowl and the purple but was a dress.Then in the 60's she had some catsuits, but with domino masksTaking the iconic Catwoman mask, making it a full body suit, it partly comes from Batman Returns but Jim Balent's take managed to take that idea and make it work homaging her comic looks.
>>146154335Early 2000s was when the gay shit started to creep in with Rucka’s Batwoman
>>146155009that was more mid-late but he was lezzing it up with Montoya by then
>>146154809At least Cass stands out and has her own unique spin on Batgirl. It's weird that this argument is never applied to Damian, who's intentionally an inversion of the "optimistic bright sidekick" archetype that Robin exemplifies.
>>146155351Rughy. got the lesbians confused.
>>146155383>her own unique spin on BatgirlYeah but I think it's a spin that wasn't needed for the mantle.>It's weird that this argument is never applied to Damian,I feel the same way about him honestly. Morrison never intended it to be permanent, and him as a little edgy Robin is doomed to either repeat the same cycles, or have the edges polished off anyway.
>>146154809Casa worked better as Orphan than Batgirl.
>>146155505Fair enough, but I think one of the reasons Steph doesn't really have any staying power as Batgirl is because she's too similar to the popular perception of Babs. Why write a Stephgirl story or adapt Stephgirl when Babsgirl fills the same role and is more recognizable? Cass on the other hand has a more unique take on Batgirl, like it or not.
>>146155769Cass fans hate that identity
>>146156142>Why write a Stephgirl story or adapt Stephgirl when Babsgirl fills the same role and is more recognizable? This is the same reason why Dick will never leave the shadow of the Titans. Why waste this arc on Dick when Batman could make better use of it.
>>146156142Becuase Babsgirl is a copy on Stephgirl. Or did yall forget who came first or that dc has a habit of stripping traits from others to put them on more brand heavy characters?
>>146156142Steph’s main Batgirl stories are her being mentored by Babs, teaming up with Damian as the new Batgirl and Robin, and her father manipulating things behind the scenes to get to her. None are really stories fitting for Babsgirl since they play heavy on her being a legacy and having some different relations than Babs has
>>146156310Of what story?
>>146157046Court of Owls was originally a DickBats book, then became a Bruce one.
>>146156258They do, a lot
>>146137177Just let Steph be bisexual, and then DC will put her out more again..
>>146158483Terrible idea, shithead.
>>146158483Making Steph bi creates the peril that some asshole writer will pair her with fan-favorite Harper Rowe.
>>146159021They’ll never make Steph bi because they know making so many characters within one book screams bad news.
>>146159056>they know making so many characters within one book screams bad news.I seriously doubt the Bat Office has that kind of self-awareness these days.
>>146159093If they weren’t, then why isn’t Dick by yet? He’s more popular than Steph.
>>146141731>kept the Cassfags in checkHow did he do that? Do Cass fans hate Stephanie?
What's up with Huntress these days? Why do Stephanie threads feel so focused on Jason as well?
>>146159347>How did he do that? But not making her the center of the world.
>>146158483Honestly making Tim and Steph bi4bi would've been a million times better than making Tim bisexual for Bernard.
>>146159456> Why do Stephanie threads feel so focused on Jason as well?/co/‘s new favorite Batship now that Tim is gay.
>>146159591The Eggplant Avenger
>>146159591Peak character design.
>>146155383Cass has a lot more going for her in the "defies expectations" category from the perspective of characterization. Damian was created to defy expectations of Robin as an archetype and serve as a foil to Dick so he's fairly one note character-wise.
Has Steph ever confronted Black Mask post-return?
>>146159093I don't think Gotham War is a good example because the whole thing ends with Bruce being 100% correct and Selina dangerously out-of-touch and myopic. They're either cynically self-aware or so lacking in self-awareness that it loops back around into looking like self-awareness.
>>146160396>They're either cynically self-aware or so lacking in self-awareness that it loops back around into looking like self-awareness.It's literally a coin toss. These are the same editors who let Tom Taylor paint Dick Grayson as le heccin wholesome billionaire who donated all his money to save Bludhaven while at the same time making Dick look like a moron with no self-awareness for dedicating a statue to his butler in the poorest most corrupt city in New Jersey.
>>146159456>Why do Stephanie threads feel so focused on Jason as well?Because she isn't a popular or successful enough character on her own and needs others to prop her up. Now that Tim became a homo her fanboys are desperate for her to latch onto Jason in order for her to stay relevant.
>>146159456>Why do Stephanie threads feel so focused on Jason as well?Probably because Steph and Jason are the most interesting members of the team.
>>146160212not really but she is fighting him on this page.
>>146134617Her being "allowed" to be Batgirl always struck me as a bit patronizing.
>>146160904>Her being "allowed" to be Batgirl always struck me as a bit patronizing.Bruce, Dick, Babs, Tim, Damian, and Cass; are all patronizing.
Best girl
When is the next solicitation coming out?
You guys still like him, right?
>>146161459It's been 20 long years...
Out of all Batfams, I only care about Steph, Jason and Tim. And they happened to be the one DC cares about less.
>>146162667I like Jason in theory, not so much in execution.
>>146163092That how everyone likes him. The comics are that bad.
>>146163092My ideal portrayal of Jason and his morals would be with him looking like a horrible person next to most heroes, but like a saint next to most villains, he shouldn't go too far in either direction, and both sides should generally not like how he does things.
>>146134617Any Steph reading recs?
>>146163478They went too hard on making murderous in Red Hood. How the hell do you settle into the Batfam after that?
>>146163631*Jason
>>146160904>>146160936Was he in the wrong?
>>146163819Geoff Johns ripped this off in Three Jokers.
>>146163819Jean for being an schizo, Babs and the rest of the Batfam for thinking a schizo would suddenly fall in line.
>>146163880Jean was never NOT going to be schizo since he was brainwashed as a child and Batman really didn't want to figure out how fucking ingrained that shit was.
>>146163979Reminds of the time Bruce said fuck it, and buried Jason and his mom together without actually solving Jason’s murder. Or that time he kept a brainwashed child as his attack dog and dresses her up as Batgirl. Bruce is terrible at his job honestly.
>>146163819>what no nerd girl pussy does to a mf
>>146160493That would depend on in-universe reactions. Dick's OG solo run had him barely knowing how normal people function on a daily basis because he was removed from the details of living on your own at the start, so him trying to do good by handing out money while failing to realize the terrible optics of installing a statue of your former butler isn't necessarily an editorial issue. >>146160904The main drawback of her Batgirl run is that it goes hard on presenting Steph as a completely worthless burden who only deserves to be considered a person because they allowed her to slap a bat logo on her chest. It was 1000% in line with Didio's directive that Steph's pre-War Games history and canon be replaced with her as an incompetent retard who deserved to get brutally murdered.>>146163631>Bruce, you've got Katana on your Christmas card list.
>>146164026Or cult-nun pussy.
>>146164023There are a lot of issues with how Bruce handled Cass, but that's a completely false statement regarding Cass' situation or her relation to the Batfamily.
>>146164123Don’t care, don’t like Cass!
Man what’s the point of Tim now that Damian exists
>>146164380He's the gay one.
>>146164382We already have a lesbian and a half lesbian with Batwoman and Harper Row.
>>146164443Tim is the male gay one.
>>146164380>>146164382Even without the gay thing he's still the most different male Robin.
>>146164380Tim's the Robin who knows how to function as a regular person. Dick buys up neighborhoods, installs Mexican-Korean fusion food trucks and thinks it will solve poverty, Jason is the guy who loudly insists that packet mayo and expired saltines is a perfectly adequate dinner, and Damian resorts to violence after namedropping his mom and dad don't get him his way.
>>146160493>Dick Grayson as le heccin wholesome billionaireHow is Dick a billionaire?
>>146164791He's the first in line to Bruce's fortune.but also Alfred has a lot of money and left it in his will.Back in the 90's Bruce basically told him that he was due for the inheritance in case of anything when Dick was LARPing as a broke dude. this was when jason was dead and Tim's dad was alive. It was all going to him.
>>146165110Why wouldn't the inheritance be split equally amongst Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian? And if Alfred has a lot of money why would he work as a servant?
>>146163478>would be with him looking like a horrible person next to most heroesExcept most people would be A-OK with him and praise him, making the heroes look like preachy moralfags that nobody sane can relate to. Like the reverse of Superman Legacy. You're gonna have people look at that and keep on thinking Superman's the lamest character ever.
>>146164023>buried Jason and his mom togetherThe bitch that got him killed in the first place, and smiled with glee when it happened?
>>146165267The idea was first put forth, like I said, when Dick was was the only known, living heir. Now it’d be split, but it’s still splitting billionsAlfred had money in stock. He was clearly too devoted to Bruce to leave for long, I don’t think he had material desire for money or leisure.
>>146165267You've got to specify the time period you're talking about because the context will change. Right now you could make a strong assumption that Dick and Damian would get an inheritance, but it's questionable if Tim would get anything despite his parents being dead because he's a legal adult who presumably already got insurance payouts and inheritance from his parents, if Cass would get anything because her adoption by Bruce isn't confirmed canon, or if he'd be comfortable giving Jason anything due to their differences.
>>146163880The Batfamily's a fucking cult. They take Batman's schizo no-kill rule to heart when HE only has it because he'd go on an insane killing spree if he took a life. The others are sane enough to not have the problem, yet they still abide by those dumbass rules and hate on those that don't. Jason looks way cooler in comparison.
>>146163849I remember when she fucking snitched on Jason for killing one of the Jokers.
>>146164760>Tim's the Robin who knows how to function as a regular personMy ass. Dude's a rich kid. He don't know shit about being normal.
>>146165321His dad wasn’t THAT rich
>>146165341Still upper class though. Just enough for the lower classes to still be alien to him.
>>146165321Tim's family was nouveau riche and only wealthy for a brief portion of his life. By 14 he was firmly in the middle class.
>>146165349>By 14 he was firmly in the middle class.Still privileged.
>>146165366You know, Steph, maybe if you let him stick it in your ass once or twice he wouldn't have dumped you for Twinkerbell.
>>146165383That hole's reserved for Jason.
>>146165306Bruce adopted Tim and Dick is a legal adult as well. The issue isn't really about divvying up the inheritance but rather how DC is constantly making Dick a bigger Mary Sue than he already is.
>>146165419How does Dick having an inheritance make him a Mary Sue?
>>146165573Learn some reading comprehension, my guy.
>>146165347He is went to public school
>had a maid>lived in a brownstone (cried about it too because only poor people live in brownstones)>had subscriptions to gay art magazines >actually grew up with mommy and daddy>hates Shepard’s pieTim Drake was literally built to get violently murdered in the streets by guys like Jason.
>>146161459He really should get a new identity already.
>>146164760Jason is the only guy where was actually homeless and turned to crime to provide for himself. He’d be the guy who can actually point out the flaws in Gotham’s social services.
>>146166319What did Steph even see in Tim? Dude seems like the type of guy she'd avoid.
>>146166477Tim is the “safe choice” guy and the only person after Bruce and Babs she could trust… until he dumped and ghosted her because his love of penis was stronger.
>>146166477He’s nice. Bad boys screwed her over literally and figuratively
>>146166477What did he see in her? Why would a smart guy from a rich family go for a girl with below average intelligence from the trailer park who got knocked up as a teen?
>>146167158Big tits and fat ass.
>>146164084You then get those who believe Bryan Q. Miller was also pushing some anti-Latina, white savior narrative of how it's okay to fuck up at whatever you do as long as you're blonde and have big tits and everybody will love you.
>>146167158Being fun and understanding.He was coming off Ariana being a high maintenance mental case who raged at him for minor offenses and tried to get him to marry her at 15 and was flaky as hell.Steph was fine not knowing his identity at first and just going out and fighting crime
>>146167211>pulls out popcorn for possible /co/mblr drivebys>dis should be good
>>146167189>it's okay to fuck up at whatever you do as long as you're blonde and have big tits and everybody will love you.Yes. And?
>>146166527>ghosted herHe always did that.
>>146134617I love her because she’s a teen whore superheroine
>>146166477Everything her dad wasn't.
>>146167189>it's okay to fuck up at whatever you do as long as you're blonde and have big tits and everybody will love you.This is how Jason thinks btw
nothing better than some skintight fabric to tastefully show body definition
>>146136385Calm down Chris Redfield
I’m glad that Maps got to hang out with Cass and Steph had a date with Kyle, but I wish that Steph and Maps could have spend some time together
>>146167967Staz drew the hell out of that costume
>>146168955there's a lot of focus on her butt in this issue actually
>>146169037
>>146169075
>>146169094someone needs to rub it better
>>146169935I would say Tim because he’s used to getting sore asses but then I remember it’s for all the wrong reason.
>>146166321Given almost a decade of history, thinking DC is capable of doing right by Tim is very silly.
Imagine…
>>146170931steph pegging jason?
>>146170987Go away Tim
>>146166321What name could he even have?
>>146171265Something owl themed
>>146171312Owls are usually for bad guys, Tim ain't taking that away from the Court, he needs something that he can actually make his own.
>>146171358Wasn’t Jessica Cruz get Volthoom’s ring and become the new Power Ring at one point? That was, why can’t Tim do it? Jason did it.
>>146171393I fucking hate autocorrect piece of fucking shit
>>146171019>implying Steph doesn't bring out the strap-on on the first date
>>146171393She became Power Ring because she had that thing as a parasite, it was still bad because Volthoom was there, there's a reason she dropped that and became a regular GL.>Jason did it.Jason is anti-hero, there's more moral grayness there, Tim is completely good.Also, like I said, owls are generally bad, Tim ain't getting rid of that stigma, he needs something that he can make his own, if he's an owl people will constantly think he's with the court or something.
>>146171882The strap-on is for Tim. Jason is for Steph getting fucked boneless.
Who the fuck are you femcels that still obsess over Stephanie Brown like she was ever worth a damn?
>>146171903Okay but what about Nightwing? Dick could the idea after listening to one of Superman’s corny stories.
>>146171908.t Jason a half second before he starts wondering why Steph has the lube bottleFace it, Jasonbros, your boy is about to take a ride on her bitch breaker.
>>146171265Redbird would fit
>>146172472But that’s the name of his old car. (Which I miss dearly)
>>146171265Cardinal
>>146172520It would still fit >>146172530Cardinal is a good one.Sparrow would be a deep nod from the dc and marvel crossover
>>146172420Jason could kill her with his barehands; Tim probably could too for that matter. There is no way he'd submit to such a weak and frail creature.
>>146172520Canonically Dick and Tim are two fucking dorks who name their cars
>>146172530Why tho? How does the cardinal bird fit Tom?
>>146172607you're weirdly defensive about this.
>>146172621Jason would be pretty defensive about getting a big case of the Steph's in his brown eye.
>>146171265How about Lark?
I think predatory birds is a little too tryhard in Tim’s case.
>>146172162Dick already did that, the problem is that Tim has nothing comparable that he can use.When Dick and Jason started using Nightwing and Red Hood, those names had been long abandoned, Dick and Jason made those identities their own, Tim needs something similar.
>>146172607>Tim probably could too for that matter.>pocket BRICK, sha sha!
>>146172614I miss this era so much. Why did it take so long for Denny O’Neil to realize that Robin could have been a major player in the Batman mythos?
>>146172763that do be based do
>>146151341ngl it should be apparent to DC that the first person to bear the robin/batgirl mantle AND get their first solo title is usually the most popular, comcis-wise
>>146172780Well, that's clearly not the case because most people prefer Cass over Steph.
>>146172621And you're weirdly obsessed with women fucking guys in the ass.
>>146134617also ditto in the case of the current universe. but honestly she definitely clicked as batgirl in the post-crisis universe, even if it was more-or-less “now what do we do with this character”
>>146172768About half the fandom thought Robin was a corny throwback to the Golden Age, O'Neil included. It wasn't until the late 70s and NTT taking off that they began to realize Robin as a property was valuable enough that they needed to appeal to that side of the fanbase.
>>146172797I don’t want fans like Cassfags near Steph.
>>146172617Tim doesn't have to reinvent the wheel and become the Aqualad or the heroic Calculator, just another bird code name would be fine.
>>146172780>first person to bear the robin/batgirl mantleYou say this like Steph did anything notable as either Robin or Batgirl.She was Robin for like half a minute and only became Batgirl because DiDio threw Cass under the bus.
>>146172768People forget while Dennis didn't write Dick much in the 70's, it wasn't his idea to ship it off Dick to college and off the main bat adventures. When he did come back as editor int he late 80's, it was only a few years before they launched a Robin soloPlus the batbooks weren't doing that well before Batman 89. In the 80's they were selling like shit. 89 helped support books like Robin get made.(Irony is one could see the Robin solo as a way to keep Tim in his own yard)
>>146172851Seahawk because now he protects the Gotham waterways/marina.
Terry McGinnis is proof that modern audiences do not want their protagonists to be nerds who play nice.
>>146173073Dude Batman Beyond came out a quarter century ago.
>>146172763God I wish she did this at the diner.
>>146173073terry is a nice guy come on now
>>146165349Steph is the relatable kid out of the Bat teens. Firmly working class, divorced parent hardships, needed to work to support herself on top of college and Batgirl.Tim? Rich for a "brief portion"? "Firmly middle class"?Grew up a multimillionaire rubbing elbows with rich megacorp heirs at boarding school, had his daddy buy him a mansion when he was 13. Downgraded to a mere upper middle class brownstone when he was almost 16. Billionaire took him in at 16 and adopted him at 17. Tim suffered high middle class life for less than a year total.>>146166189>Tim went to public schoolYeah? Damian Wayne is going to public school right now. Tim went to private boarding school, then public school, then another private boarding school, then public school, then dropped out.ITT: probably that Solemeni who reaches for shallow sjw reasons to hate Steph. Go back to your Tim Tumblr blog. You're not beating the boring rich white cisgender male allegations, so campaign for a better queer boyfriend for Tim instead.>>146155383>this argument is never applied to Damian, who's intentionally an inversion of the "optimistic bright sidekick"Do you live under a rock? Fans rip Damian, Steph, and Jason for disgracing the Robin mantle all the time.Then they turn around and claim Dick didn't take the job seriously enough like Saint Tim has.>>146173073Terry has a lot of Tim's story arc beats except better because Terry is less obnoxious and sanctimonious and bougie, and more considerate of people like his mom, bro, and Bruce. He actually puts work into caring for Bruce outside of the night job, but Tim fans and Zdarsky can only pretend Tim ever did that when he actually left all that work to Alfred. Terry also consistently has more respectful relationships with women. He may not be a nerd but he's very nice.>>146173186>Batman Beyond came out a quarter century agoAnd that helps your argument for Tim?
>>146174161You didn’t have to drop a promo like that on Tim…
>>146174161Steph is completely unrelatable to most people because they didn't grow up as minor background characters in a Breaking Bad episode. Babs is the actual relatable one.
>>146174457>Babs is the actual relatable one.Lmao, that’s like saying Cass is relatable.
>>146174457Babs is relatable because she’s every manager woman who turns into a complete bitch the minute they become inconvenienced.
Ever met a character so aggressively boring?
>>146171903>Tim is completely good.And completely gay.
>>146173769Nah, he's way too cool to be that. He's a good guy, but not a nice guy.
>>146174457Most people are of the working/lower classes, dude. The economy's still very ass.
>>146175138The ass thing made him look pretty fucking lame and gay. Jason's easily the coolest out of all of them.
>>146175516but everyone on 4chan tells me they work from home and have six figure incomes and can retire at 35!
>>146175536>The ass thing made him look pretty fucking lame and gayI hope to God that people will realize just how fucking bad Tom Taylor's run was for Dick.
Looking up drawings of Jason by various DC artists, I realized that they, too, hate the Mortal Kombat look because a lot of their art features a variant of the helmet and jacket combo.
How do you make Tim and Bernard... cool?
>>146176201You can't. It's best to retcon the Bernard out of existence and pretend the whole thing never happened. And no one even complain about "gay erasure" or whatever because almost everyone who wanted Tim to gay wanted him to be with Conner.
>>146176484>It's best to retcon the Bernard out of existence and pretend the whole thing never happened.There is no going back. John Constantine, for example, has been a faggot since '92. He's been a faggot longer than he was straight.
Do you guys think Jason would have flopped as Red Hood in the '90s?
>>146176201Dump them in a tank of liquid nitrogen.
>>146177385I like to imagine Jason and Damian bugged the place with microphones and are laughing like hyenas when they heard this shit.
>>146134617I think Steph deserves to be a main character. Whether that's Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl, or another identity. My problem with making her Spoiler again is there's no indication that DC or fans take her seriously as a main character when she's Spoiler. If DC gives her a mini or makes her a main character in a book, I'll be happy about it. But for now, it's clear that she's being deliberately neglected, and that infuriates me.
>>146177052It would've been to soon. The idea has legs but Jason kinda benefited that people seemed to think more years went by in comic time than they actually did.The Jason fake out in Hush pretty much works on the audiences knowing it's been 14 years IRL since DITF and thinking of Jason as an adult, not a 15 year old kid.In the 90's, Jason was regularly thought of as a recently deceased teenager.
>>146177507I think it would have worked if they pulled it off in 1998. It had been a decade since his murder and O'Neil was on his way out. Also, nice timing as NML would destroy old Gotham City the following year. Also, a good time to talk about how I never liked how UTRH had Jason force an ultimatum on Bruce between him and Joker when he had Joker dead to rights and Bruce knew it.
>>146137033I agree editorial is treating her that way. I think editorial is stupid. I do acknowledge, as much as I enjoyed Batgirls, that it was not popular enough, and editorial did have to make different decisions. I just wish the decision had been "hire stronger writers with better concepts instead of a pleasant but indie team on what should have been a mainstream book.">>146137107It very much seems to be that intent. Intensely frustrating.>>146140115I do think that there's a lot of hidden agendas in the Batgirls and Robins discussions.I will admit I'm pissed that editorial is treating her as "worse Batgirl", and I would be happy if they'd just give her a comic as Spoiler, Robin, or Batgirl, that showed she was an awesome character and not just Cass's friend.>>146143377My perspective as well. But all it takes is editorial and a writer who can convince fans she's great.
>>146170224>Tim has to regress into being Robin, a role that he really should've grown out of by now>Steph has to be a second rate Batgirl, because apparently her unique identity as Spoiler isn't good enough nowDC really fucked up with those two.
>>146177468>I think Steph deserves to be a main character.I don't think she has the appeal for that to happen.
>>146144558wth do you have against Tim?
>>146148514minivan!
Sometimes I feel like I am wasting my life hoping these comics will get better. Even to this day, Steph has never recovered from 2005 and that was nearly two decades ago. Jason Todd returned nearly twenty years ago and DC is perpetually stuck in an arms race with itself to scare away his fans. I see subhumans online saying Absolute Batman, WW, and Superman have saved DC as if they haven't lived through the New52 and the last decade of DC's bullshit.
>>146155383I apply it all the time to Damian.>>146174161holy peanut butter and jelly, Batman, this man needs to chill on the Tim hate.
>>146177707she would if they gave her a strong writer and story. Just like any character.>>146177737why 2005 and not 2011? or is her Batgirl run not good in your eyes?
>>146177790It was not enough to make up for three years of silence and victim blaming.
>>146177802hmmm. Interesting.
>>146177707>I don't think she has the appeal for that to happen.I disagree immensely. She was doing the Kickass amateur hero before that was a thing. She had the quippy, flirty girl hero when Babsgirl had largely spent her time in the comics as a more mature heroine. She has some of the biggest daddy issues of the family, played with it being an a more normal suburban background. It would be EXTREMELY easy to market Steph, especially as a YA girl's character(and it shows that she does have a small but dedicated following among teen girls as is).
>>146177707>I don't think she has the appeal for that to happen.She got over in the 1990s when it was much harder to market female heroes.
>>146134617I think Steph is neat!
Tim Drake is going to stay a dimeless midget all his life.
>>146137530It does make me sad that Tim, Steph's longest love and longest friend, ally, and supporter as a superhero, is so often hated by Steph fans. He's not perfect or perfectly written, for sure, but I think he's great.
>>146178458Tim needs Steph more than Steph needs Tim. There was a time when both characters provided a benefit to one another but Tim is such a damaged character, he corrodes everyone around him. And yes, it is because of his homosexuality. Sorry, bisexuality (same difference).
>>146178514I am a die hard Steph fan. She is my favorite character in all comics. But...I have a hard time believing that Tim really needs her in terms of a fanbase, at least. He still has way, way more fans.
>>146178514You're delusional. Tim is by far a more popular and successful character than Steph, even as a homo. The only reason why she got to be as popular as she is is because of her relationship with Tim. She'd never even be a Robin or a Batgirl if it wasn't for him. Tim has done just fine without her while the same can't be said of her. She needs Tim far more than he needs her.
>>146178579>>146178597Hold out your empty hand. That’s the all benefits Tim brings these days to anyone.
>>146178647So...why did Tim's compendium stay in the top 100 DC Comics list on Amazon for months, while Steph's new Batgirl republication not seem to be able to crack the top 100? (again: Steph is my all time favorite comics character. I have four copies of her Batgirl run, including the new volume). This is an empty hand of no benefits?
>>146178658You mean the compendium that complies stories prior to Tim coming out as gay? Wow imagine that! That Tim is long gone.
>>146178597>She'd never even be a Robin or a Batgirl if it wasn't for him.Steph became a hero becaBatman inspired her to take action and stop her dad.
>>146178647The same could be said of Steph. She's largely been reduced to being Cass' sidekick or Jason's coffee girl>>146178748A generic hero, not Robin or Batgirl
>>146178837>The same could be said of Steph.You know what Steph doesn’t bring? Gayness. Steph > Tim
Anyone got the edit where Jason calls Tim the gay one and breaks his nose
>>146178967
>>146178967I have this one.
>>146178014cass looks so sexy
>>146179263>>146179337The images that defined a relationship
>>146178579Do you think Black Mask had his way with Steph’s body when he had her captured during War Games?
This is the third time you make this post, no you faggot.
>>146180346Yes definitely
>>146180346>>146180383Considering Steph was very open about the previous times when men would attempt to assault her, yet never brings up Black Mask doing it means it didn’t happen. Now fuck off.
>>146180390I think it happened. She’s just too embarrassed to bring it up.Things the same guy who fucked Catwoman’s captured sister Maggie and then fed her her murdered husband’s body.
>>146180490No, you’re just an idiot who doesn’t get the character and you get off on disrupting threads. Last response from me.
>>146179263Kek
>>146180346It’s the entire gang, not just Black Mask.
>>146178458>Steph continuously messing with Tim by stealing his snacks
You now remember that Stephanie is a vegetarian.
Rereading Midnhunter makes me wish they had the cast minus Bruce solve crimes that aren't costumed freaks attacking Gotham City.
>>146177507>The Jason fake out in HushWasn't a fake out. Jason was there and switched places with Clayface.
>>146182314I know of the retcon, but when written it was done as a fakeout when it was first publusged. And it certainly felt like Jim Lee was drawing Jason as if he'd been older than he actually would've been
>>146181993But does DC?
What batgirl enjoys sex the most?
>>146183515Cass
>>146172822Cassfags are so high alert they were paranoid Bette fucking Kane could be relevant again and wished for her death (well, she become irrelevant again after Batwoman so almost), when DiDio didn't even like her either and thought her unworthy of Batgirl.
>>146183515Babs.She is literally the spectacled librarian who is secretly a sex fiend stereotype.
sex with the suit and mask on
>>146183515Dick doesn’t even remember Starfire’s existence these days, so Babs must have a snatch with a crocodile grip.
Now that Secret's back, there's a missed opportunity for them to have a rematch or for the two to wind up bonding over how Tim strung them along.
>>146184117The anti-alien sentiment is strong in the Bat-Family. Bruce enforces it while not wanting anyone to point out he gets along with a Kryptonian.
Man, A Death in the Family is so fucking bad.
>>146184997Makes sense Robin Lives would be more of a steaming pile but it's all a shame
>>146185557In a better world, UTRH would be the Green Lantern Rebirth to ADITF's Emerald Twilight.
Bump :)
>>146171265Just go back to Red Robin.
Why does DC seethe at the thought of the little guys saving Gotham City?
>>146185602The Prime punch and some other thinks unfortunately are embedded in brains, as much as the movie got rid of those.
>>146188902I'm so jealous of the normies who have never read comics. Superboy Prime punch is so fucking stupid.
>>146188326Poor people bad and a suspicious and cowardly lot
>>146188902>>146188956Superboy Prime punching reality is kino.
>>146188326>>146188979>DiDio my son, carry out my will and kill the street rats.
>>146188956It's dumb but I'm not that fond of the Lazarus pit explanation because it breaks the stakes and rules of the pit. It was originally only meant to work on the very freshly deceased. Being able to drop Jason into it after a few days cheapens it. Not that the rules haven't long been ignored.
>>146189068>Didio>carrying on O'Neil's willOk now you guys are just making shit up in your heads. I get Jason fans blame O'Neil(more than Starlin for some reason), but Didio era DC(along with Bob Shreck) were tearing down shit O'Neil's era established. When O'Neil left he had a few of his editorial staff left and they were all gradually pushed out as well.
>>146189111Yeah wasn't O'Neil's will to push ninjas and the orient into everything? I mean everything I've ever read of his has some oriental kung fu shit in it. Richard Dragon, the Question, Wonder Woman, even the issues of Beware the Creeper he helped Ditko plot out when he had Tuberculosis or some shit, introduced some east asian kung fu cult.
>>146189111>more than Starlin for some reasonDenny was the editor. Dude knew that Starlin hated Robin and used him to his advantage when the marketing team demanded an explanation as to why Robin was dead.
>>146189163Yeah the entire O'Neil era was full of martial arts and ninjas. many of the writers(Moench, Dixon) and editors were fond of martial arts movies. Nightwing's editor wanted the book to be like a martial arts movie every issue. Cass is basically the parting gift of that editorial era
I like her best as Spoiler... but I'd like to see her rotate as both Robin and Batgirl on different occasions.
>>146137730Pretty sure Roy was always gay, anon.
>>146189111>When O'Neil left he had a few of his editorial staff left and they were all gradually pushed out as well.These are the same guys who let the place fall apart the minute Denny left. I hope they're drug addicts now.
>>146183791The best thing about Babs's OG origin is the fact her entire look is just a slutty Batman.FUCK all that noise about Babs looking up to Batman and wanting to be Batman so that's why she became Batgirl, give me the Babs who just wanted to show off her banging body at a party.
>>146188326DC is a company, and they have to balance keeping their smaller characters alive with making enough money to explore things.That being said, I think they could easily make a Steph series profitable by just making it good and pushing it right.
I've been out of the loop. Why so many Jason mentions?
>>146190455Because of Batgirls(the short lived title) and cuckquean shipping.
>>146190455Right after Tim broke up with Steph, Rosenberg started using her as the one Bat-Family member who was friendly with Jason, from Task Force Z to Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing to Gotham War, Steph being friendly with Jason was a constant whenever Rosenberg wrote Red Hood.Fun fact, TFZ was the first time they interacted in canon, I'm surprised it took them that long for a writer to formally make them interact.
>>146190455We like Jason in these parts. Also, Steph is the only person on the team who will look the other way while Jason kills Joker... in Minecraft.
>>146190547untrue - Steph and Jason interacted in Batman and Robin Eternal #23 - it was pretty cool, though they were clearly strangers to each other at the time.
>>146134617Strange opinion, given that she's objectively the best Batgirl. But I know that the cassfags aren't ready for that trvke.
>>146190581>we like Jason in these parts.Fucking do we though? I feel like a lot of people weren't actually paying attention to what he was saying when Judd Winnick(ugh) wrote under the red hood because I've read least him wanting to kill the joker and more him wanting Batman to kill the joker to avenge his death.
>>146190455Stephfags need a new host after DC made Tim gay.
>>146190455Because of the science.
>>146190614Judd, like the retard he is, thought he was making Bruce look like the better guy for not killing Joker. Instead, he made Bruce look like a complete fucking faggot.
>>146190593>it was pretty coolI mean, was it? I just checked the issue and it was kinda lame, Jason merely acknowledge her existence and didn't even really talk to her.That's why I count TFZ more, maybe it wasn't their first interaction, but it was their first substantial conversation, and it seems to be what really started the modern idea of Jason and Steph being friends.
>>146190455The Jason Todd/Stephanie Brown Connection is very powerful but DC doesn't acknowledge it because it would mean doing something with them and they would rather focus resources on Damian and Cass.
>>146190697Buddy how can you read the page where Jason literally has a gun to the joker's head and instead of pulling the trigger he was bitching about how Bruce didn't really love him because he didn't kill the joker when the joker killed him.That's myopic as shit, fuck the idea that Jason gets shit done.
>>146190766>Buddy how can you read the page where Jason literally has a gun to the joker's head and instead of pulling the trigger he was bitching about how Bruce didn't really love him because he didn't kill the joker when the joker killed him.This is widely agreed to be the weakest part of the story because it undercuts everything.
>>146190766>Bruce didn't really love him because he didn't kill the joker when the joker killed him.Jason was absolutely right. Bruce only cares about playing hero and beating up poor people at night.
>>146190815You know what undercuts The story? The fact that Jason was brought back to life. How can Jason think killing someone can be permanent when he himself was resurrected?
>>146190848As oppose to Jason who want to kill them. That's the weirdest thing about Jason and his fans, the assumption that he is more sympathetic to the downtrodden henchmen of Gotham.We literally see this in Gotham War where Chip had Jason side with Selina.
>>146190915>We literally see this in Gotham War where Chip had Jason side with Selina.And Gotham War was unanimously considered a piece of shit that everyone hated.
>>146190886The pits don't undercut the story, the editors undercut the pits by letting everyone and their mother get ahold of them. It's like when they try to give the Joker a supernatural element, it just becomes dumb. God, I miss Denny.
>>146190766Jason was going to pull the trigger on the Joker, but Bruce stopped him. The book makes it very apparent that Bruce IS a complete faggot for letting his retarded code let Joker live and that he failed Jason.
>>146190965A resurrection of any kind should've given Jason pause on the effectiveness of his plan, though that's assuming his plan was to kill the joker which it wasn't because it actuality it was about proving Batman wrong.
>>146191000Nah man, Jason had the Joker dead to right but he focused more on bitching Batman out so that's entirely on Jason.
>>146190915Lol look at this retard trying to compare Under the Red Hood with Gotham War.
>>146191030They're more a like than you'd think anon.
>>146191022No bro, it's still on Bruce because he stopped it from happening.
>>146191075Nah it's on Jason, he fucking had him and he wasted everyone's fucking time.
>>146191043No, they aren’t, dipshit. Jason’s plan was perfect, while Selina didn’t even have a plan.
>>146191095It's a thing called theatrics, retard. It's been a thing in comics since forever. Plus Jason giving Bruce the ultimatum is the climax of the comic and shows that Bruce has failed everyone yet again, proving Jason right.
>>146191132Jason's plan might've actually been dumber than Selina's.
>>146191202You're full of shit and you know it. What was even the theme of Gotham Wars?
>>146191231There wasn't one but Jason's plan is fucking dumb. Selina's plan could at least work as a gang, a gotham's thieves guild, but Jason's plan was to turn Gotham into a war zone.
>>146191252Anon, what fucking good is going to come out of making criminals into more sophisticated criminals? With a gang war, at least these fucks kill each other. Making them better at their job means a harder job for Batman and friends and easier for Gotham to turn into a war zone.
>>146191277Gamg war means innocent people caught in the crossfire, literally The Punisher's origin.
>>146191364And you don't see the risk in a sophisticated thieves guild? They're fucking criminals.
>>146191378So is being a murderer.
>>146191386That's not what I asked.
>>146191401The risk is lesser than encouraging gang warfare.
>>146191386Jason didn’t murder innocent people, but those thieves would.
>>146191416Gotham engages in gang warfare all the fucking time, it's something that the locals have grown accustomed to.
>Oh no team, Jason is chimping out again! Quick Spoiler, flash him! NOT LIKE THAT! I meant flashbangs you dummy!
>>146191491>Come on boss, the girl wonders always stop a guy in their tracks>Didn't help much with Tim>shut up!
>>146190700I liked Steph owning Scarecrow's mind game attempts, and Jason applauding her and using her as a threat to keep Scarecrow in line!I'd agree that TFZ is the first interaction of Steph and Jason as friends. But the idea of them as friends goes WAY back at least to her Batgirl run or possibly even to her time as Robin, when fans rebelled against the drumbeat of "Steph is like Jason and thus she deserves to die like he did."
Is Tim the guy they trip so the rest can escape?
There is nothing wrong with being bisexual.
I miss her :(
>>146191697same
>>146191735She gives us... hope.
>>146191744On that note...would Cass be yellow?
Guys. This was supposed to be a Steph thread.>>146190455Jason's book was the most recent significant appearance of Steph where she was a young woman with a hint of personality. Fitzmartin burned her out of Tim's life, some overzealous Cass fans are afraid she nerfs Cass by associating them as a pair of silly teen girls, and she hasn't gotten to meaningfully interact with Damian outside Elseworlds since 2011. Jason is a possible foothold for her for now, their fandoms have a good amount of overlap, but this fandom idea is just temporary until she gets better prospects.>>146189068Denny didn't want Batman to be a father at all. He didn't have a personal hate boner for the poor. Tim was 1) an employee instead of Bruce's child, and 2) formulated to appeal to 19-40 year old well-to-do men and/or their sons who bought every floppy and event. You can see the interviews on Wikipedia, etc. Denny put heart into Batman, but he also saw it as his job for the Batman brand to be successful and profitable. He wasn't a fanboy nepobaby writing Batman to force people to read his fan fiction.>>146190111Sexy show-off high-heeled Babs anon, you are the most principled person on this board. I salute your agenda and clarity of vision in every thread.>>146178658Steph has a solid setup and vibe as Batgirl, but her comic does get tangled up in some crossovers and tangents. In the long run everything suffered from the 2007-ish editorial restructuring, from which DC still hasn't recovered. If she got a webtoon or a YA graphic novel that is truly beginner friendly instead of comics-typical "beginner friendly", then she'd do well.Female characters don't benefit from 90s nostalgia fanboys or from fujos. But that doesn't mean her separate niche isn't valuable. Different market.>>146191252Good thing Jason didn't start a gang war. He ended a gang war. Gotham was on fire. Jason didn't ruin any peace.
>>146190602She ranks second on the best of charts and third in relevance.I don't understand why Stephs supposed fans want her to be just another Batgirl when she has her own unique identity.
>>146192517Easy: because they’ve been coached into thinking being Bat-anything is the equivalent of leveling up in a Batman comic and ensuring you have prestige… unless you have the title of Batwoman, then people just ignore you.
>>146192468>I salute your agenda and clarity of vision in every thread.Thank you anon, we as a people cam never forget that Babsgirl knew that she was sex on sexy legs and got flirty with it.
>>146193793Imagine this being Babs go to move for crowd control. >prison riot?>flash some ass to quit them down.
>>146193815AND I JUST KNOW that her ass would put Nightwing's bubble butt to shame.
>>146191525>>146193793>>146193815A proud Batgirl tradition.
>>146184997Is Last Crusade any better?
>>146193815Nowadays Babs just sits home all day, eating fried food.
>>146194494Anf the worse part is her ass is not even getting any fatter.
>*click click click*>pulls up 4chan*>"Alright gang, I'm going to hack the anonymous website. Wish me luck."
>>146191744In what world does Babs have GL-level willpower?
>>146192468>Steph has a solid setup and vibe as Batgirl, but her comic does get tangled up in some crossovers and tangents. In the long run everything suffered from the 2007-ish editorial restructuring, from which DC still hasn't recoveredMan nothing pissed me off more was the constant crossovers. I tried to get into nu52 but not even half a year in CROSSOVERS! EVENTS! NO MORE STORY, LOOK AT THIS!WTF thought that was a good idea?!
>>146195517>WTF thought that was a good idea?!They still haven't learned their lesson.
>>146171265
>>146195863NO
>>146195863Doesn't fit a squeaky clean bisexual lad like Timmy.
Best/favorite weapon for Steph?
>>146196057But what about bad boy Alvin Draper,eh? He's got chin scruff and wears sunglasses..at night!
>>146196090Steph is the resident nunchucku mistress of the Batfam.
>>146196098Tim has the same ability that Green Lanterns do in that no matter how many crises happens, something carries over. In his case, it's being a massive GOOF.
>>146196098Why does he wear sunglasses at night, surely it'd be easier to see without them. He must be drinking marijuana
>>146196138Mr. Sarcastic? A goof? No way!
>>146196198The wrong Robin died getting crowbarred and exploded to death.
I would NEVER eat anything Steph cooks. It would probably give me diarrhea.
>>146196517You would. She would be sad if you didn't.
>>146196517Suit yourself, I'll enjoy the store brand mac and cheese with zest of cheeseballs and slimjim bits for protein
>>146196686>I'll enjoy the store brand mac and cheese with zest of cheeseballs and slimjim bits for proteinOnly a hardened criminal could eat something like that.
>"Stephanie... why you so reckless and dumb?"
>>146196796>Only got two things from my dad. Natural blonde locks, and a bangin' recipe for prison tamales.>Want one? It's red flavored.
>>146197204This looks like it could kill Tim Drake
So whatever happened to Steph getting a higher education?
>>146197138>Cass, conjugating verbs sends you into a cold sweat
>>146197928I wish Steph gave me the cold sweats
>>146196415At least it made Jason into the coolest member of the Batfamily.
>>146198875What would Tim get out of it?
>>146199035Being dead and gay.
>>146177737Write your own stories then.
>>146198875I nominate Steph as the coolest!
>>146190886Why the point of a no-kill rule when death doesn't matter, etc... Utrh is dumb but it's not like the problems started with it.>>146190965Jason wasn't resurrected by the pits and they absolutely are a cheap and inconsistent plot tool.
>>146177052>>146177507>>146177602I've been considering this for awhile and I think Jason would've much better off coming back in the 90s. It's kind of jarring that he sat out that whole decade, he would've been perfect for it as either Robin or Red Hood. The 90s were a lot more pulpy and imaginative, a Punisher-like Jason by this era's writers and artists would've been awesome. I truly believe he came back at the wrong time. The 2000s superhero comics were ashamed of being superhero comics and tried to hard to be "realistic" and "mature" but usually came across as neither, just soulless. Winick is a very bad writer. Because of this, Jason has suffered from inconsistent characterization ever since. There isn't much room for growth for an angsty millennial (the only character Winick knows how to write) that hates superheroes in a superhero comic.
>>146199444He would have worked better as Red Hood. Tim would have had his solid run as Robin. Plus it would mean not doing the two robins at once meme that made Tim redundant.
>>146199559Jumping so quickly from 2nd Robin to 3rd Robin helped normalize there being so many Robins. It could've been a lot simpler: Dick being the standard Robin, and Jason being Robin whenever Dick is Nightwing. Nothing more is needed.Robin would've had a great run in the 1990s regardless of who it was because that was the first time DC pushed him as a solo hero. I think Jason has a more interesting backstory than Tim, certainly a lot less complicated. That's why DCAU "Tim" was really Jason.
>>146196415Not really
Kinda sucks the steph thread seems to have been effectively hijacked.Sorry for being late.>>146178458I feel a lot of is is kinda poser fans, if that makes sense? I mean that's what this thread gets me. Hijacking a thread of a character tied so strongly just to shit on him.>>146178514Idk, you say that. Tim existed presteph with a book. Steph's appearances were largely in tim's book. Steph's dynamics are sorta built from tim. And even when steph's been removed tim stayed. Like I'm sorry but this is delusion. Even now tim appears more than steph, water you like it or not?
Have a recent steph comm.
>>146199692Tbh dcau tim was jason..because the dcau writers only liked stuff from their time. See how they handled bane, the most popular 90s batman character. And how they changed kyle's origin. And how they avoided modern characters until JLU. Just look at interviews of them being asked about characters from the time like azrael or doomsday.
>>146171265Backshot
>>146171265The Swallow
>>146195863Oh hey actually have gotten stuff with that premise. Some with steph too!>>146196057I mean the idea behind red robin was that and all. So it does fit that angle
>>146198875He is lame and doesn’t have a girlfriend because all the chicks he hooks up with leave or go gay and his only kind of family figure hates him. Gigantic friendless loser with no girl that literally nobody likes. I’d say he’s edgelord wish fulfillment but what wish does he even fulfill? Nobody wants him around and to top it off his modern look is incredibly stupid and charmless. Dead character.
>>146195863Does Tim do anything but rifle though Dick's costume drawer? How pathetic.
>He is lame and doesn’t have a girlfriend because all the chicks he hooks up with leave or go gay and his only kind of family figure hates him. Gigantic friendless loser with no girl that literally nobody likes. I’d say he’s edgelord wish fulfillment but what wish does he even fulfill? Nobody wants him around and to top it off his modern look is incredibly stupid and charmless. Dead character.
>>146171265The Pounder
>>146171265Fisting Justice
>>146199997You know you have a point Tim. I concede.
>>146171265The Krisco Kid. If you happened to be in any major city bathhouse in the mid-70s, then you know.
>>146199997Artemis was good :(.And yeah its wild how a character that had such a good look goes back to his worst.>>146199995I mean, dick's id comes from clark and jason's id from joker. It DOES follow the robin trend of taking a preexisting name
>>146199848>And how they changed kyle's origin.Because they wanted to do Hal but were told to do Kyle because he was the current GL at the time.
>>146199824Look, dude. I get that you got your nostalgia bias, but Tim just sucks ass in general. He's boring and now gay nerd. Especially nowadays with characters like Red Hood and Damian showing him up. Even Dick showed him up in adaptations by taking his costume and weapon and using them to better effect.
>>146200400Yes. They didnt like the then current characters. They made that clear time and time again. Its why they only adapted stories from the 70s-80s too.>>146200423Eh, dunno not really particularly nostalgic towards tim (this might shock you but I didn't actually start reading bat books until most of that stuff was long over). I didn't really grow up reading his comics at all. And idk, damian has his own issues as a character with repetition (shared with tim) and jason has that worst of them all, and the least amount of actually good content (which again funny because before reading comics I assumed he had the most). Adaptations choosing the robin costume with pants isn't shocking lmao. Him being composited isn't like some big argument you seem to view it as.
>>146200487Tim's got definite issues as a character (and peaked under lewis, even if the RR stuff was good), but the writing off and just strange circlejerking here about it in a thread for a character who is intrinsically tied to him and that whenever he's in a lesser position suffers massively is strange af to me. And just seems like a weird hijack, since it seems incapable of actually talking about steph. Since that'd imply having had to read tim's book (or read in general beyond just constant adaptation centric arguments)
>>146200534>but the writing off and just strange circlejerking here about it in a thread for a character who is intrinsically tied to him and that whenever he's in a lesser position suffers massively is strange af to meIt's fun.
>>146200534Are you autistic?
>>146192468I don't wholly agree that Steph/Jason friendshipping or even romance will go away if Steph gets her own book or becomes a main character in a team book again. It was a thing long before Rosenberg, and so I think it'll be a thing long after.I do hear people who I give Steph's two-volume edition to who haven't read other Batman very much that her status quo, with Dick as Batman and Damian as Robin, is kind of confusing. It does hack me off that Babs and Cass both got YA graphic novels (even if Babs's was AWFUL and Cass's was decent but had poor fight scenes and the author's ego was really obnoxious in promotion). But if we had a book like that for Steph, I think it would do wonders for Steph fandom. Though the publication of Dark Knight Detective Vol 8, with her original origin story, will probably help some. If it stays in print.>>146192517all of this is subject to change. Good stories make characters more popular and relevant.>>146193090If you think having a bat on her chest doesn't help Steph's iconography, you're insane.>>146193919It is, actually. It doesn't have the same iconic moments, but as a character piece of Bruce and Jason, it's a lot less dated.>>146195001I love VioletSyren's art!>>146195517They sell. Sadly.>>146196090three part staff is the only really unique weapon. Or gooparangs. But I like her look with the bo staff a lot.>>146197268Batman Eternal gave her a new origin and made her 17 instead of 19, so she's stuck in the same limbo Tim is with regards to her age and status quo.>>146199340same, anon, same.
>>146200767I feel like if they gave Steph a YA book it would be a fucking downer.
>>146199824it's annoying all right.The Tim haters go way, way back, though. I think some of them are Damian fans who are just jackasses (like their fave - I love Damian, but people who aspire to be like him should just stop), but Steph fandom has always had a loud corner of feminist fans who hate Tim because he's a boy who was in a romance with a girl.>>146199835Nice! Looks sort of like Phil Cho but without the weird sameface and samebody!>>146200423the more exaggerated and silly concept characters are more flashy than the "everyman" Tim, yes. That doesn't make him boring.>>146200534I gotta disagree about Lewis. Lewis Tim is fine, but he's so much of an indie music and underground comics Jon Lewis self insert it's painful. And the plotting is beyond awful. Dixon's plots are almost always like Swiss clocks - no fat, character and action in a neat package.>>146200817Well, they do like to make their YA books boringly angsty. But the Kami Garcia ones are generally good, as is Primer. And even Shadow of the Batgirl isn't really a downer. Oracle Code is. And sucks.
>>146200857Steph is the one with a downer origin story what with the assaults, druggie mom and asshole dad.
>>146200956less of a downer than Cass and Jason I think
>>146201097Cass’ origin story is like something out of an anime. Jason’s story is sad, but is nearly tied with Steph.
>>146200712Not really.>>146200857People are like that online. And yeah I've heard that, but its just so strange to me. I get disliking the relationship but the two characters are so inherently linked and all.Artist's great, did a cass and babs for me too. And civvie steph ofcEhh I think the run is just the best one. I feel it just fits well and it found a good angle to continue tim and steph post dixon I feel. Do still have a soft spot for RR too (which is also a very fun dynamic steph wise)
>>146201164And nsfwy alt
>>146201164I am still just boggled by all the people who love Lewis's run. I think he wrote some fun stuff, but overall I genuinely think they're actually bad comics in terms of plotting.
>>146201164>but the two characters are so inherently linked and all.So? If the two don't work together then they don't work together. If her working with another character's more appealing, then oh well.
>>146201209I mean they worked well togheter for all that time so its just a strange argument. Especially with someone who is the least consistent of the set.>>146201199Well I just love the characterization, that carries it.
>>146201209Also maybe, but most of that has essentially zero actual writing about steph, so it makes me think that the people arguing that just see her as a prop because she is similar to the one they want to prop up.
>>146201323A lot of folks do. I just struggle with it because what the characters are actually doing doesn't make sense to me.
>>146171265Bulge Bouncer?
>>146201361Fair
>>146171265Red x works if he cant be robin>>146195863
>>146171265Redder Robin
>>146201456Steph with freckles sexo
>>146201456Steph's Red Robin ponytail is amaze
I’m surprised we got this far
miss this game. Steph was super fun to play as.
>>146201876We always do.
>>146201972Thumbnail made me think Cass was Yukari from Persona 3.
>>146201561Right? Steph makes it work well!>>146201972Nice that artist is doing some cass/kon for me. And did an awesome timsteph pic for me already
>>146202230the two tiny robins are so cute!!!!!