Why is he so divisive now? He used to be considered a god by Sonic fans.
Archie died. Now his legion of tasteless barely literate dicksuckers are no longer there to shield him from real criticism
>>146138501Because he was only ever good at fixing up other people's messes. Writing his own content he falls very short, and since he's now a "loremaster" and writing games the whole franchise is suffering from his presence.
>>146138501Because his filthy gaijin hands are all over glorious nipon Sonic lore that has remained consistent and without flaw since the 90s.
Sallyfags. The second you stop pandering to them they lose their shit.
Majority of critiques I see of him on this site are valid but a lot of you fuckers don't know how to stop overexaggerating your shit to the point where actual issues get drowned out by shitposting.
>>146139087>Majority of critiques I see of him on this site are validCan you summarize them? Because I can only think of maybe two legitimate complaints and even then one of them isn't much of a complaint.
>>146138501He was hailed for not being Penders. That's all he was good at.Now that Penders is completely out of everyone's minds (outside of some hyper fixated autist here and there), his flaws are very blatant.Also Stanley was never good either.
>>146138501He always sucked as a writer, he only ever coasted by through being a small fish in an even smaller pond. He was mostly harmless when he had his own little sandbox in the corner to play with, but now that he has his grubby little fingers in every current Sonic project, his shortcomings are painfully apparent.>>146138818>Because he was only ever good at fixing up other people's messes. I wouldn't even argue that. Like, sure his work may look half-decent compared to the likes of Penders, but his work in a vacuum doesn't really "fix" anything. He mostly just overhauled it all and tacked on as many references to other Sonic media as he could. But even then his attempts at course correction ended up being questionable in their own right, like how he regressed Charmy into a child through literal brain damage. Or how he wanted to retcon the Orca from SA1 into an anthropomorphic antagonist.
>>146139214I liked the orca
>>146139214Tangle isn't a lesbian. She loves Mobian Jackal Men.
>>146138501I think he basically needs an editor. The further he went up the chain in the Sonic franchise, the worse his writing got. Evan Stanley is also pretty shit as well.>>146139125>>146139214Naw, he could actually write some fun stuff in Archie. There was retarded shit like Charmy or the Orca thing, but he also wrote some good arcs like Shadow Fall or the Finitevus stories.>>146139087The retarded Ian-haters tend to do that. Tailscel in particular acts like someone's forcing him to join every thread about Archie at gunpoint. You also get the idiot Shadowfags who're mad that Ian made Shadow a GUN agent even though he was one in 06 and SEGA only later retconned him into being a freelancer.
>>146138837
>>146139109If you're asking about Ian in general, it's generally agreed that his (and Stanley's) work on IDW is pretty shit.>overlong arcs like Zombots (19 issues) or the first Surge & Kit arc (7 issues and a mini)>lack of menacing villains other than Eggman (Clutch and Mimic are both powerless, Starline's a prancing homo, Surge and Kit are jobbers)>focusing too much on the OCs like Tangle, Whisper, and Belle, especially since the latter two spend all their time crying about their tragic backstories>issues about boring shit like camping trips, or Sonic giving Surge a guided tour of the Restoration HQ>too many callbacks and references to song lyricsIf you mean Archie, the main critiques of Ian's run are:>the Tails/Fiona slap>Charmy getting brain-damaged>the Megaman crossovers>the postboot being one long arc
>>146139286>Tangle isn't a lesbian.Sure she isn't.
>>146139300Can someone please explain to me what “the finitevus stories” are?The only 2 stories i recall him having any major involvement in were Knuckles’ universe special, which was good, and the enerjak story which was almost entirely just knuckles doing everything and finitevus in the background going “well i let him turn into enerjak so it’s all my plan!” But that wasn’t good, it was just a rehash of Penders’ enerjak story but with knuckles wearing the mask instead of dimitri. Feels like people mostly like it not because the plot or action was amazing but just because it’s fanservice giving knuckles the fancier 4th superform.Everything otside of those 2 he’s either cameoing (eggman bombing the echidnas) or going “this is all part of my keikaku which you will never see actually do anything or even know what it is before the reboot”
>>146139351Whisper looks like Impjak
>>146139351
>>146139347overlong arcs, coupled with too-short arcs, were a big pacing problem in archie too. Nobody wanted to waste so much time on chasing after mecha sally, yet Ian wanted it to last 3 years longer than it already did. Other examples too like the moebius shit just being the ff standing around twiddling their thumbs while only the hedgehogs get to do anything and crippling rotor then giving him a supersuit then still not letting him do shit
>>146138501“Sonic fans” in regards to ian used to just be archienic self-inserters and sally waifufags, most often both. If it jacks off Sonic and ships him with Sally, they would clap like seals. Now sally’s not around to give Ian her protective waifu aura, his terrible writing cannot stand on its own
>>146139406And game fans are a lot more critical than archiefags. Or at least they used to be before they slurped up that false-advertisement halfbaked atrocity called frontiers.
>>146139347Overlong arcs are such a persistent industry wide problem and I don't think it's fair to attribute it to any one franchise, let alone any one writer.
I liked most of his Archie workHis IDW work is mostly boringFrontiers was shitThe Sonic Gens rewrites were shitShadow Gens was pretty good
Tails
>>146139369It was mainly those two, but I liked how Finitevus was portrayed as a serious threat. He was the only villain that didn't wind up being Eggman's bitch, and he had some Chaos powers and stuff that let his bark match his bite.>knuckles doing everything and finitevus in the background going “well i let him turn into enerjak so it’s all my plan!Well yeah, but Finitevus brainwashed him into sharing his ideals, so everything Knux did was what Finitevus wanted him to do. He was basically Finitevus' puppet.>it was just a rehash of Penders’ enerjak story but with knuckles wearing the mask instead of dimitri.How is it a rehash of the Penders Enerjak story? Knuxerjak fucks up the dingos, the echidnas, and pretty much everyone else in the comic and it ends in a big duel with Super Sonic and Locke's sacrifice. The Penders Enerjak stories had Dimitri beating up Knux over and over until either the fire ants saved him or Mammoth Mogul showed up to steal his Chaos powers.
>>146139427Dc and Marvel are a whole different ballpark to sonic the hedgehog, they actually have some profit out of selling a whole storyline collection like Court of Owls or Knightfall. Ian has noone to pass the blame, his failings as a writer are his own fault.
>>146139484Okay but TMNT IDW has the same issue.
>>146139491Two bad writers then. I assume neither of them are being forced to write overly long arcs, Sonic volumes don’t even group themselves by story arcs they just collect a random few based on size that don’t have any big conclusion
>>146139498>Two bad writers then.Like six.This is just an industry wide problem man, seriously. Flynn is NOT special in regards to being shit at pacing.
>>146139300>Evan Stanley is also pretty shit as well.I feel like she's closer to the image of what fanboys project Ian as than Ian himself. She started off by being put into an exceptionally shitty situation, with her debut as head writer being right after the Metal Virus. Genuinely how the hell is ANYONE supposed to follow up on that dumpster fire? If she continued to follow up on the tone and melodrama that MV brought, then she risks the book becoming even more monotonous and stale. She went the opposite direction for a while, which didn't really work either, but it only highlights how much of a lose-lose scenario it was. Ian left her with a total shitshow and basically told her to "clean it up, janny!". And he does this every single time he comes back to the book. Issue 50 was even worse in that regard.
>>146139347>lack of menacing villains other than EggmanAlso Eggman himself is just really poorly characterized. He feels schizophrenic and inconsistent, where he ping-pongs between "goofy joke villain from the games" and "literal Satan from SatAM". It's clear Ian wants to do the latter, but tends to fall back on the former, either because of Sega or because the SatAM levels of villainy tends to cause more writing issues than it's worth.
>>146139491TMNT IDW is a whole different beast entirely. It's issues have little to do with arc length and more to do with the content in said arcs being borderline unreadable garbage.
>>146138501i blame sega's constant prodding and pokingremember, a lot of his work sofar goes thru a lot of checks an' balances by higher-ups in the biz, and they often have full say on things,for better or worse
>>146139351HUMAN MEN
>>146139557>Genuinely how the hell is ANYONE supposed to follow up on that dumpster fire?honestly ye, i feel the MV stuff would've been better in archie's more dramatic, spider-man-esque 'tone of comicit happening so early didn't help either
>>146139578Ian writes Eggman as an evil manchild. Evan writes him as a goofy villain that likes to cause trouble from time to time.
>>146139613It was a left over funny enough for the Archie reboot, it was what Maw the Thyclaine was hinted to be experimenting with based on Eggman figuring out a replacement for roboticization
>>146138501Because there are retards who don't like anything
>>146139613>it happening so early didn't help eitherYeah, Metal Virus is an Endgame-tier arc dropped into the second damn storyline of the book. I just don't get how Ian would think anyone could get invested in a world that isn't even well established being thrown into turmoil.
I don't get why he gets shit eitherI haven't played or read much of Frontiers or the IDW comics, but what I have seem from them seems like a gigantic improvement over the writing of almost anything in the series since SA2. The franchise has struggled to take it's own continuity and characters seriously for almost 20 years now, and Flynn fixes that and people bitch about it?Also I just watched Dark Beginnings and it's absolute fucking peak, and I say that as somebody who isn't a zoomer hypebeast and hasn't been satisfied with almost anything in the series in, again, 20 years. Unironically probably the single best thing in the franchise and it's insane to me how all aspects of it are just firing on all cylinders. Even Shadow and Rouge's VAs (which I normally detest) do a pretty damn good job, Shadow is finally written like early 2000s shadow again, the use of past locations and continuity nods like the broken moon and the Egyptian egg base are all excellent, etc.>>146139214What specific continuity references do people think are bad?
>>146138501Because his writing is shit, meaningless fanservice and "I clapped when I saw it" references.The only reason he's celebrated so much because he "fixed" Archie, after Ken Penders. An easy task considering Ken Penders is Ken Penders.Now that he's on his own, it's easy to see how shit his writing really is.
>>146139723The comic does take place after Forces that had Sonic imprisoned and tortured for months, Eggman taking over 99% of the world, wiping out GUN, and hundreds of casualties thanks to Knuckles. The letdown is that Ian cut back because people complained it was too long so he stuck with smaller arcs and Evan Stanley took over and she wasn't interested in those kinds of stories. Metal Virus is still the most popular arc to the point that MV Sonic got a toy years later. It may sound like a low bar but people were obsessed with the story. It could've been done much better. Just cut the Deadly Six and end it at that point.
>>146139727I wouldn't be surprised if the people that love Shadow's interactions with everyone in Generations are the same people that blame Ian for everything they don't like in the same game. They probably think Rouge's costume tweaks are his fault. That's how gamefags are. They eat up slop from Japan but as soon as they find out someone not part of Sonic Team is writing then it's shit and that person is the worst but only the parts they don't like and Ian had nothing to do with the writing they do like.
>>146139727>I haven't played or read much of Frontiers or the IDW comicsA bit weird to defend something you've never even touched.>Also I just watched Dark Beginnings and it's absolute fucking peakThey have good action and choreography, but could you tell me what story was actually being told with them? Because that's the primary issue here, his writing is vapid as hell and doesn't even try to say anything with the franchise outside of shitty meta-commentary. I could tell you what most Sonic games are trying to go for on a thematic level, but when it comes to Ian's work it's a total blank. He just doesn't have anything to offer as a writer.>>146139772Except I didn't particularly care for Shadow's story, nor do I think Ian's responsible for Rogue being censored. Shadow's campaign retconned a ton of shit just for it to work, like Maria having gone to Earth instead of living her whole life on the ARK and forgetting what Earth was even like.None of that excuses the utterly abysmal dialogue on Ian's end, or his blatant attempts at whitewashing Amy.
>>146139214>Or how he wanted to retcon the Orca from SA1 into an anthropomorphic antagonistI prefer a real orca but what? He's not the orca from SA1. That was only in an off panel for laughs.
I mean despite his good points and his many fallings I can never truly hate him since he made one of my all time fave Sonic characters
>>146139815The Amy changes to me seem more like a thing some people in the top want to do. It's clear as day, they want to stay away from Amy have any bad perception. And her chasing Sonic led to a lot of that whether fans of her will admit it or not. They want her to be more appealing to a wider audience.
>>146139892I'm sure there's someone higher up pushing for it as well, but Ian is definitely part of it. He has made it clear on multiple occasions how he doesn't like the female Sonic cast, much less Amy herself. He even tried to get rid of her crush on Sonic entirely in Fronters:https://x.com/3Caramelg122/status/1803596182255739118
>>146140003God I feel so bad for Tangle. Whisper fucking ruined her character forever.
>>146138501>He used to be considered a god by Sonic fans. cap
>>146138501Sonic fans are known to be ungrateful little shits.
>>146142275isn't that of any franchise?
>>146138501I swear Ian Flynn was a black nerdWho the hell am I thinking of?
>>146139214>like how he regressed Charmy into a child through literal brain damagesounds based>Or how he wanted to retcon the Orca from SA1 into an anthropomorphic antagonist.Ultra MEGA based!!!!
>>146142797daniel barnes, the writer of scrapnik island who seethes at wypipo
>>146140033Yeah, I never thought Tangle was Character of the Year or anything like that, but she deserved more than to be Whisper's eternal babysitter.
>>146138501Turns out being "better than Penders" was damning with faint praise.
>>146142856Those names seem backwards to me. Daniel Barnes sounds like a white dude who quotes youtube video game reviews verbatim as a personality.
>>146138501His go to is always some smark reference, which is fine in comics but now that he's writing for video games appealing to the autists in the franchise just comes off lameYes, I know Sonic, autists, haha but like realistically these games also have to be for regular fans too
f
>>146138501Ian stopped being new and interesting. Really this is true for most writers, but with Ian it's just more apparent because he's only a decent writer rather than a great writer. After Penders left Ian was a considerable breath of fresh air and people appreciated his little nods to the fanbase and the series history. Whilst there were some grumblers they were mostly bores who were concerned about their favourite character being written 'wrong' which happens in every franchise, but for the most part Ian was considered great. However after writing for over a decade now his writing foibles and style have become well-worn and well-known, there aren't any surprises really left and the little references now elicit an eye-roll more than smile like they used to. As I said this happens to all writers at a certain point when they've been exposed to the public for so many years.
>>146138501He's writing for a much larger audience now, obviously the games are more popular than the comics would ever be. But I think his run on Archie Sonic was just simply better too. It wasn't perfect, just had higher peaks, especially around the turn of the 2010s (Moebius and Iron Dominion arcs). And alongside that there was Sonic Universe, which can probably be considered the best Sonic comic with how consistently enjoyable those shorter arcs were. I think the only misstep there was 30 Years Later, which even then felt like a story that's just "whatever", than one that is actually shit. Reboot is a lesser version of his run on Pre-boot, consistently enjoyable but didn't hit the same highs and lows. IDW started promising in its first couple of arcs but has turned into "monthly Sonic filler" after Metal Virus ended, and any new interesting ideas they bring in like Belle or Surge just kind of flop. It's a book that just exists now, disappointing.
he keeps repeating his shit, look at sonadow gens, both rewrite and the side story spin their wheels to oblivion without natural development with shadow running on a treadmill through the entire thing
>>146144965To be fair I think a lot of that is SEGA's fault, I know 'mandates' is a bit of a meme at this point but they can't (and there's no reason for them to do so) allow some outsider write a meaningful conclusion for Shadow or any other character of theirs. So reiterating the same lesson of 'Humanity good. Shadow friend of all children etc' is all you can do. The best Ian can do is write interesting things for Shadow to do and experience.
>>146138501I don’t know who this faggot is and I don’t care who he is
Can't fat-shame or call people "crazy" anymore.
>>146145038At a certain point you just have to admit that, even if you do think Ian's a good writer, is just a poor fit for the franchise. If he can't work around restrictions to make something good, then why is he even here? He'd be better off taking his talents elsewhere, all he's doing now is flailing miserably and producing subpar crap.
>>146145093Cared enough to respond
>>146145886I never thought much of him to be honest.
>>146145136>Can't fat-shame or call people "crazy" anymore.That's not on Ian though. As a hired writer he's subject to the same rules everyone else is that they are only just recently backing down onhttps://itcommunity.stanford.edu/news/update-elimination-harmful-language-initiative-stanfords-it-community
>>146147645So they are, but officially they can't confirm it because Sega. Got it.
>>146146559He's in charge of rewrites. Anything he chooses to change from a preexisting game is on him
>>146138501Sonic fans need different someone to hate and he the latest victim.
>>146147694Yeah, downplaying SonAmy is on him. Changing "crazy" to "eccentric" isn't.
>>146145136Remember when Mario use to be fat.
>>146138501Think his overall problem for comics at least is he restarted the comics from scratch 3 times. By number 3 he had no history to go on, was locked down into a certain time frame by Sega, and had even more rules than before. His IDW run probably would have been better off going the route of standalone adventures rather than trying to continue a massive lore saga like archie, but we see his results.Games just seem like an exercise in whining. Plots and lore were never super strong and adding a few references to past adventures doesn't suddenly ruin or improve it.
>>146147729Yes it is, it's a preexisting game that is still being sold, he can either change it or leave it as it already is on the market
>>146147787>Think his overall problem for comics at least is he restarted the comics from scratch 3 times. By number 3 he had no history to go on, was locked down into a certain time frame by Sega, and had even more rules than before.And not only were his flaws repeated all three times, but became even worse over time as editorial let him off the leash compared to Pellerito, and he was able to use "but le mandates :^)" to excuse overlong story arcs and OC glut.
This guys reviews of Sonic comics ran concurrently with Archie until the latter half of reboot. It goes from issue 18 to 267. The interesting thing is that he sings the praises of when Ian got things right and points out flaws as well. He seems to know what he's talking about but some of his takes are pretty weird. It is very balanced and had both good (and from what I've seen lots of bad) to say about Penders. Remember, back then Penders wasn't as hated as he was nowadays, so that may have explained the charitability given to his stories. Still the reviews say that the comic was pretty bad at some point before Ian came on.My personal opinion is that Ian is decent but nothing special, he has his flaws but I'll praise him when he gets it right. Lob criticism his way but don't forget how heavily he improved preboot, it was genuinely impressive. It went from bad to at least decent very fast. You know what forget it, I love his preboot stuff so much. It may objectively be flawed in some regards but Ian's writing style fit so much better with that than the games or game based comics. I loved what preboot set out to do, and even if it wasn't perfect that is not the enemy of good. I loved the setting and characters and the style so much. Yes I am very biased.https://www.andrews.edu/~drazen/archives.html
IDW was in a similar place to where Archie was before Ian came on. Spinning its wheels somewhat aimlessly and not really building towards anything, without a real long term planm then the riders arc changed that I guess, with what's happening to the restoration.
>>146148702>>146148220I agree with you guys. Ian started out very promising and delivered on some very fun stuff, but ultimately his flaws as a writer paradoxically got WORSE as he went on. I guess he's just one of those guys who desperately needs an editor.>Remember, back then Penders wasn't as hated as he was nowadays, so that may have explained the charitability given to his stories.Indeed, it's only recently that fans have re-evaluated Penders' work and seen how fucked up it is. I even remember old Locke-fangirls writing fics about Wynmacher turning out to be an evil bastard back in the 2000s when I was a kid.
>>146149756>but ultimately his flaws as a writer paradoxically got WORSE as he went on. I guess he's just one of those guys who desperately needs an editor.Pellerito seriously deserves more credit for turning the ship around. Actually so does Yardley because his art, while not perfect, was way closer to something you'd expect from Sonic than the art before him.
>>146138501>Why is he so divisive now?He's mainstream now.
>>146139557>Ian left her with a total shitshow and basically told her to "clean it up, janny!".Leadership shouldn't have given the head writer job to someone else in the middle of his story then.
>>146149816Ian's writing in general has always been carried by the amazing artists/animators he was lucky enough to be straddled with. Even now that's still true, with Ian getting most of the credit for shit he had the least involvement with, as seen >>146139727.
>>146139347>or the first Surge & Kit arc (7 issues and a mini)Ian only wrote the mini and 50. Evan dragged that out with the weird headgear detour.
>>146145886>If he can't work around restrictions to make something goodDark Beginnings was good though.
>>146147801Except it;s not on the market. SxSG is the only official version now.
>>146149816You're right. According to the Sonic Wiki, the last issue Pellerito was the editor on was #215: https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Archie_Sonic_the_Hedgehog_Issue_215Make sense, because that was just after the Iron Dominion arc and where we started to get into the Mecha-Sally/King Naugus mega-arc. I didn't hate everything about that arc (Geoffrey was actually more likeable as a villain than as Penders' OC), but it was where the arcs started getting overlong and where Ian started going downhill as a writer.
>>146149845>Even now that's still true, with Ian getting most of the credit for shit he had the least involvement withYou think he had nothing to do with Dark Beginnings?
>>146149876I thought Iron Dominion was bad though?
>>146149885What, do you think he personally animated every damn frame of that series, choreographed every moment of the fight scenes, and orchestrated the entire soundtrack itself? Fucking listen to yourself for more than five seconds. At most he came up with the basic scenario and dialogue, neither of which were the actual highlights of the series.
>>146149888Eh, I thought it was okay. Not the greatest arc ever, but a standard adventure arc. The Iron Queen is a decent villainess, and the fantasy-Asian settings were fun.
Is Ian like George Lucas in that he needs someone to rein him in? If he was well he also has the problem of not being super original in his stories either.
>>146149910>the framework for all the events and actions taken and dialogue animated don't matter Yeah sure anon, this is totally not you trying to underplay the importance of writing because you want to seethe about Ian.
>>146149920>he needs someone to rein him in?You guys keep saying this but he always has editors, from IDW to SoJ. He's never had no oversight.
What do you think of Ian taking the Archie comic in a more action oriented direction immediately after he started. Was this good or bad.
>>146149950Well, it was supposed to be an action comic.
>>146138501Hearing him whine about how the games Sonic was "like the people that bullied him" so he need to make him more bland made me become one of his haters.
Holy fucking shit who the heck is writing the Sonic Wiki. Nearly had a brain spasm just reading about the newest issueSpoilers just in cause cause I'm not a monster
>>146149920That's a good comparison. They both did a lot of their best work with their editors, but without them they churned out crap like IDW and the Prequels.I'm not sure that bringing back an editor to reign Flynn in would solve everything, though. We saw Daniel Barnes work with the same editors as Ian and he turned out Scrapnik Island, which was a much better story than anything Ian's put out in a while.Ian's also said some odd things that make me think he's out-of-touch with what IDW needs: >>146140003>"Eggman's the main villain, so we don't need another major villain!"I mean, that's just totally ridiculous and goes against what makes adventure stories fun. Every superhero ever has had multiple villains. Even other video game icons like Mario and Link have had side-villains like Vaati or Majora's Mask or King Boo.George Lucas might be able to churn out something interesting with an editor reigning him in, but with IDW I think it's Ian that needs replacing. Dude's way off-base.
>>146149942They are too loose nowadays. Pellerito, though he did bad things himself, really kept him in line and prevented him from making too long arcs. His best works were always in shorter chunks. Pellerito also seemed to prevent him from making his dialogue too long and having characters talk a bit much, Mecha Sally was really him at his worst when it comes to characters talking too much. Thankfully he learned after that. Pellerito deserves more credit I guess, and Ian shouldn't get all the credit for the good parts of the comic.
>>146150061>but with IDW I think it's Ian that needs replacingHe got replaced years ago.
>>146148702>>146149756It's not so much that old fans re-evaluated Penders' work, it's that new fans came into the picture.The comic was its own little beast back then, almost completely divorced from the games, and likewise the small online fandom was more into Satam than the games. There wasn't much overlap between the comic fans and the game fans, and in fact there used to be much flamewarring between the two on the old Sega forums.The old readers back then would look at something like pic related and think it's perfectly fine (no seriously, I checked, Dan Drazen rated this issue a 10/10 on art) because it's their main frame of reference for what Sonic even is. Meanwhile, younger fans who got into Sonic with the Adventure games and Sonic X and shit would look at this and go "what the fuck is this shit".And Archie was well aware of this, it's largely why Ian and Tracy were hired in the first place. Penders' lawsuit didn't make his work less popular so much as it just made older fans less willing to defend it.
>>146150001>who the heck is writing the Sonic Wiki14 year-old autists. The people who write those fandom Wikis are spergs beyond imagining. They're the kind of people who post shit in the "Trivia" sections about how "Volvagia from Zelda may be a reference to Smaug from The Hobbit because they're both fire-breathing dragons," rather than realizing that fire-breathing dragons are just common fantasy villains. Or "This character makes fun of another character for wearing glasses! The same actor would later wear glasses in another completely different role!"
>>146150089>His best works were always in shorter chunks.25YL and House of Cards
>>146150105Right, my bad. Replacing with someone who wants to write fun adventure arcs, then.
>>146138501I've never read Archie so I wouldn't know if it works for or against my theory but I think he's stuck in a position where a lot of his ideas are kinda too high-concept (not, like, too smart or something, just too extensive) for Sonic's current stateI've heard people say some specific issues of IDW feel like he's trying to just write a book (the one where Eggman and Tails talk about Starline after his death being a key example) and when you get into the more general issues like OC bloat or arc disparity or whatever I think you could solve it by 'give him more room to write words', at least in the current eraCurrent 4-issue arcs will be pretty simple without much of a goal, but they'll be pretty fun or at least neat - the one with Knuckles + Chaotix vs the Babylon Rogues split up with Cream's family isn't anything huge and really only exists as setup for more important stories, but it's fun and gives us some good cast varietyCurrent 6-to-8 issue arcs are shooting too high and not hitting any of the markers. Surge and Kit's first main arc felt kinda like it was dicking around for a bit and wasted some of its opportunities like a Metal + Sonic team-up or showing off Kit trying to actively be a 'good guy' (a Sonic syncophant)I don't want to say 'make each arc take longer' (NO METAL VIRUS LENGTH EVER AGAIN) but I do think you could get more out of something in the 9-to-10 range. I think the current arc in particular could've done with an extra issue or two to make each of its elements burn better/more meaningfully (more Rogues/race content, better showcase of Jewel or the Chaotix going through their stories, maybe another Eggman showing, really just enough so it doesn't feel like it's running through all its ideas at mach speed and wasting all of them)idk though, they might be in a 'they don't want idw to turn into archie again so they're trying to keep the end results of stories limited' situation which burns a hole in any solution i could come up with
>>146150124His best works were in shorter chunks, but not all shorter chunks were his best works
>>146139815>like Maria having gone to Earth instead of living her whole life on the ARK and forgetting what Earth was even like.Admittedly I haven't played SA2 since 2003 but when/where was it established that Maria had no memories of Earth?
>>146150149Those 2 were Mike's decisions.
>>146142797Different Ian?You might be thinking of Ian Jones-Quartey, the animator behind OK K.O.! Let's Be Heroessince he's also a sonic superfan to the point of getting to make that reference heavy crossover episode.
>>146150188I doubt making them longer would’ve fixed them, the premises were bad
>>146138501>by Sonic fans.Just you dumb secondaries.
>>146150202The major complaint for both was the pacing and plot. Mike wanted King Shadow but also wanted it done in 2 issues so Shadow has to get punked by Knuckles' kid. Mike didn't want to skip HoC and he also wanted Sonic vs Tails to be the selling point, but also wanted it to end in 2 issues which led to everyone being schizo and jumping to murdering each other.
>>146147645That profile pic seems oddly familiar...
>>146138501>a god by non canon Sonic fans.Fixed
>>146150136Got cut off by char count but also wanted to note there's the alternative solution of just locking him down to shorter stories that each do one or two specific things but I feel like that'd run the opposite risk of 'it feels like they've been doing fucking nothing forever'. He CAN do fun and important shorter stories when they're shown to matter - I don't know what general consensus is, but I think Bad Guys is genuinely a really fun read that keeps a good length, gets the story moving, and even gives the OCs room to earn their keep - but I feel like it's telling that those are when they're miniseries and when they're main series they're shit like Zeti Huntwhich reminds me i should also clarify that when talking about the earlier arcs i meant in a general sense, not for ian specifically, i don't keep up with individual writers for each issue since i'm not that attached to the comics but i think evan and ian have pretty similar issues and ian's name gets plastered onto the complaints more since he has more history with them
>>146150226Well i suppose hypothetically spending more time on them could’ve gave them opportunity to fix some stuff then. But imo if the idea or writer is bad then more issues would just make the problem even worse. Could go either way
>>146139286That's a guy
>>146149925>the framework for all the events and actions takenI didn't know Ian was the director of the whole thing. Please stop talking, you're embarrassing yourself.
>>146139815>A bit weird to defend something you've never even touched.Obviously, I can't comment on it with full confidence since I haven't seen everything in Frontiers or read all of the IDW issues, but what pages/chapters and cutscenes I have seen from them have vastly better characterization and a sense of continuity then anything else I've seen from the series since SA2.> but could you tell me what story was actually being told with them?Yes?Even disregarding what I know from the context of having played SA2, Heroes, Shadow, and 06, the Dark Beginnings shorts clearly establish the following even for total newcomers- Shadow's bond with Maria, and by contrast that Abe/The GUN Commander having formerly hated him- That something happened on the Ark that led to her death (though the specifics will probably be murky for people not familar with SA2/StH since his memory jumps around quite a bit in the first episode) - That after the Ark incident, GUN kept shadow in stasis for 50 years- That Shadow was made from the Black Arms- That Shadow thinks the Black arms has returned and needs to get to the ark- That Shadow now has people he can trust like Maria said, in Rouge, Omega, and even the GUN CommanderAnd on top of that, if you do know the series, it also does shit like show Emerl's presence which was only alluded to in Battle on GBA, it shows the destroyed moon after the events of SA2, Shadow has the yellow emerald he gives to sonic in Generations and Rouge references Sonic's birthday in that game, it shows Eggman's egypt base from SA2 because that's the place he knows used to have a shuttle transport, there's the StH boss they fight in Episode 3 and the Heroes Eggmans Robots in Episode 2, etc.
>>146150336He wrote the scenario, the characters, their dialogues and action. Keep coping.
>>146138501He's still treated as a god. Anytime you have a complaint with one of his stories, someone jumps in saying that it was actually SOMEONE ELSE's fault (mandates, editors, etc.) I can't think of a single time someone pointed out an issue with any of Ian's work and was met with a "yeah, that one's on Ian".So either Ian must really be a godly writer, or people (including Ian himself) REALLY like using convenient scapegoats to give him a pass.
>>146150107Did Satam fans have lower standards than SegaSonic fans or something? Different expectations on what Sonic should and can be. Preboot and Satam apparently were seen as the mainline Sonic in America between after 3&K and Adventures release, for at least a majority of the online Sonic community.
Is Black Doom's involvement with Shadow's creation just poorly translated or is it really that stupid?Even back when the Shadow solo game was released, I thought it was stupid to involve an alien demon in his origin, considering Sonic didn't need alien blood to use the Chaos Emeralds. But even so, I still just assumed it meant that Shadow started out as a normal member of Sonic's cartoon hedgehog species and was simply enhanced with Black Doom's blood, I didn't actually think the implication was that Gerald tried to clone a scaly Quake monster and somehow ended up with a hedgehog.
>>146150540>I can't think of a single time someone pointed out an issue with any of Ian's work and was met with a "yeah, that one's on Ian".Charmy
>>146150742Not Ian's fault! He had to make Archie Charmy line up with game Charmy somehow!
>>146150757Yes, but it was his decision to do it with brain damage.
>>146147645Why even bother wrghting this trash? We both know this unofficial official lesbian crap is a ploy to keep middle eastern and Chinese fans happy. I doubt Ian means it. Pretty sure Ian is obligated to say this by the faggot Twitter mob
>>146150742The only reason his sychophants don't bother defending it because it's the only time Ian actually owned up to one of his fuckups. Like, not even IAN would defend that shit.
>>146150346>but what pages/chapters and cutscenes I have seen from them have vastly better characterization and a sense of continuity then anything else I've seen from the series since SA2.Then you haven't seen very much of it, then. IDW is especially awful in terms of Sonic's characterization, I refuse to believe you've seen shit like the "Big Oof" page or pic related and think that's good character writing.>Even disregarding what I know from the context of having played SA2, Heroes, Shadow, and 06, the Dark Beginnings shorts clearly establish the following even for total newcomersYou say a lot of stuff here, but none of that constitutes an actual story. At best it's a clip show episode of a cartoon, bringing up previous episodes as filler. Sure, you can argue DB serves as a way to being newcomers up to speed, but that doesn't change it not having much of a story to tell on its own.>it also does shit like....Literally how does any of that matter? Does it compliment the (nonexistent) themes Dark Beginnings was going for, or is it just shameless fanservice done as a way to jingle keys to the audience? Rhetorical question, it's very obviously the latter, because that's all Ian is capable of.
>>146138501Because the jerkoff sessions started getting too cult and his writing started to degrade.
>>146139109NTA but>Reliance on pandering to fandomA lot of stuff is said or exists purely to make invested readers clap from recognizing things. It leaves new readers and the people who don't like callbacks lacking stuff to care about a lot of the time.>Copy-Paste ScriptsA lot of Ian's stories extend their length by using a template script and then swapping characters or locations. This isn't bad in concept, but the stories don't really diverge based on these variables, so you get the same thing over and over.>Hype over SubstanceHe tends to focus on building hype for future events over making self contained stories engaging. The payoff is rarely worth the individual issues being pretty boring.>Dialogue is iffyCharacters not only don't talk much like their game selves, but they also sound alike. Way more characters share syntax than they should. Especially with a kids' series full of simple characters, distinct voices help give texture to the cast.>Aimless storiesA lot of Ian's stuff doesn't really have a point it wants to make or a theme it would like to explore. Usually it's just "stuff happening." The stories that aren't like this are way better.>Character agencySide characters generally don't do shit in Ian's stories. At best they'll "fight robots," but that just means striking cool poses in the background while nothing important happens. It makes the cast feel redundant.
>>146151443>OnlyNah, he's admitted he messed up on a couple other things.
>>146150705The real answer is that Shadow isn't even a hedgehog, he just looks like one.
>>146150408The story is the weakest part of the whole thing. It's cool because there's good fight scenes and music.
>>146150136>>146150255I understand where you're coming from, but he doesn't need more issues to fill. He needs to knuckle down and actually condense his work. Revision is part of the writing process and this dude's sloppy.You do not need 10 issues to tell a Sonic story.
>Old Comics had boomers in charge>Female characters suck, never do shit>Generally just kind of sexist>New writers are millennials who want to do better>New female characters are toxic lesbians, no good stupid punks, submissive pencil pushers and generic noncharacters because feminine traits are apparently bad>Somehow feels more sexist
>>146142766True, but Sonic fans are a whole other breed.
>>146152563The fact this is still a complaint just goes to show you guys aren't reading anything of his.
>>146153689>Anon 1: "I think he needs more space.">Anon 2 (Me): "No, when he writes long things it doesn't actually benefit from that. He needs to condense his ideas.">Anon 3 (You): "Uhm, he doesn't do that anymore! You don't read his stuff!"Do you need me to run you through this or do you get how this is a nonsequiter?
>>146153775You and multiple others here still go on about long arcs when the last one was years ago. The condensing has already been done. Get new material already.
>>146152549It's cool because the writing facilitates the actions scenes and fits the music. Keep coping.
>>146152523like what
>>146153804>You and multiple others here still go on about long arcs when the last one was years ago. Oh, you actually are retarded. Here, let me help you.Anon was saying Ian would probably benefit from tackling longer stories that fit the scope of his ambitions, like 9 or 10 issues.I said no, more space isn't necessary for the kinds of stories Ian wants to tell. His issue is how he revises (or possibly doesn't) his scripts. The suggested length is way more than what's necessary.Notice how that isn't saying "Ian is writing long arcs and that's bad"? Or do you still not get it?
>>146138501Silverfags have turned against him for how he writes Silver as a braindead polite "cinnamon roll" when Silver is supposed to be a rude and aggressive character. Ian basically admitted to never paying attention to anything Silver has ever said or done when he said this.>Q: Did you know that Silver speaks and acts very rudely in Japanese? Him crossing his legs when he sits is supposed to be a disrespectful gesture there.Ian: And he doesn't act rude or disrespectful in any other media or in any other way throughout the history of the franchise, so I believe that is a narrow reading of some of his tells.
>>146153884>And he doesn't act rude or disrespectful in any other media or in any other way throughout the history of the franchiseWhere the hell does Silver show up aside from the games and the comics he and his friends write???People are a bit overzealous on this, he's still kind of polite, but the boyish immaturity and directness is absolutely intentional. He's Trunks. More polite on the surface than most and has a kind heart, but kind of a jerk when it comes to small details.
>>146147645He should say Sonic and Tails are gay using the same reasoning it would be funny
>>146152302That pic is never going to be the gotcha you wish it was.
>>146154155I don't think he wrote it well, but 50 was very clearly supposed to show that Surge has a warped point of view. People not getting that is insane.
>Circles half the Sonic>"Sigh. Ian was never good twice on monday."Sonic fans seem to be fucking terrible. Between Sonic fans and former Archie writers, I'm siding with Sega. Sonic is an evergreen IP. Mandate the ever loving fuck out of him.
>>146154201People get it.It’s because Surge is right, and protecting Eggman no matter his victims because “muh oppression of freedom” is dumb as fuck no matter how self-righteously you paint your pretentious hedgehog-stuThe writer of this shit is as dumb as your “media literacy”-tier shilling
>>146154241The thing is Sonic never has protected Eggman in the games. He doesn’t outright try to kill him, but it doesn’t necessarily try to save him either.
>>146154241>It’s because Surge is rightSurge is targeting Sonic instead of taking on Eggman to off him. She goes on about how letting Eggman live ruined her life but then she just leaves to focus on Sonic. All her ranting is just her trying to justify her built-in hatred for Sonic.
>>146154241>People get it.A ton of people online really don't and think the writers hate Sonic. I said I think it's done poorly, but the issue is clearly meant to be Surge's point of view, not an actual condemnation of Sonic.>“media literacy”-tier shillingThat sure is a bunch of buzzwords.I'm just saying a lot of people seem to miss the point. Saying they fucked up is different from not understanding the intent.
I never liked Archie Sonic despite being the kind of cringe fucker who's been wearing Sonic T-shirts since before Adventure came out. It never represented the world or aesthetic of Sonic to me. I never wanted that style to infect the games. I'd take cliche anime bullshit like what we got in 06 over a fucking soap opera break up a scene like what Ian gave us in Frontiers
The sonic comics are a literal mistake, you have retards who read that shit but don't even interact with the actual source material/franchise, creating a subset of fans who are fans of glorified fanfiction.Sega should just axe the whole thing and do it themselves if they want to keep that sort of media around, else just focus on animated shorts and the movies.
>>146138501Some sonic fans can't control their autism and go into chris chan tier rants when it comes to Ian Flynn, complaining about references in an anniversary is one of the dumbest things the fandom has done
>>146154393>complaining about references in an anniversary (game)Yeah that's dumb.>Complaining about pointless rewrites that are somehow worse than the already bad script.It's silly to get heated about it, but this is pretty reasonable.
>>146154377The fact that they miraculously let IDW opt out of Year of Shadow promotion, even though literally everything else Sonic has committed to it, makes me think Sega genuinely doesn't care about the comic anymore and it's just running out a contract at this point.I don't think they are still writing based off plot lines loosely tied to the aftermath of Forces because they want to, I think Sega literally won't give them the okay to work with anything new. Even the Fang mini only SEEMED like Superstars promotion, it wasn't actually tied to the story or unique elements of the game.
>>146154377How has so much information get lost to time. The reason why there's a split between comics fans pre IDW and games fans is because the comics were an outgrowth of the Satam TV show from the 90s and the comics fanbase were fans of that. In the time between 3&k and Adventure, the primary online fanbase of Sonic were Satam/Archie fans, they dominated the early internet back in the day. I am a big fan of both as well as the games. The games became the primary Sonic again with Adventure games and Sonic X. I wonder if it was a mistake because I really like Satam and Archie, but fundamentally its something different than what the games go for. It has not much in common with the games. If there was a different reality where all the Archie And Satam stuff belonged to a separate franchise, maybe that wouldve been better but let's he honest till Ian came around, the slump the comic was in was carried by the branding.
>>146154489If I am an idiot correct me on this though
>>146154351>break up sceneIs that what you thought it was?
>>146154656That's literally what Ian intended it as, if you go by his podcast.He considered Amy and Sonic's game of cat and mouse to be "antagonizing" (his words) so he wanted to end it with that scene.
>>146154695That still wouldn't make it a break up scene since you have to be in a relationship to break up.
>>146154728That's part of why it sucks. Amy is talking to Sonic like he would give a shit about them "moving apart" in that scene, despite Sonic consistently, deliberately keeping her at a distance in the games prior. It feels like he's writing the conclusion to a scenario he created in his head.
>>146152649I dunno, I still think pre reboot Archie Rouge was insanity. She was like a retarded strawman for femme fetalles.Most other female characters felt accidentally sexist out of ignorance, with her it felt like someone was writing all the bad interactions that had with women in the past, into a character.
>>146154956I didn't read pre-reboot archie so now I'm real curious, what made Rouge so insane?
>>146155060She was literally so obsessed with gems she was willing to end the world over it.
>>146139727>I haven't played or read much of Frontiers or the IDW comics, butLmao.
>>146155089People on the internet now are so obsessed with trying to seem impartial, that they end up just looking like people who shouldn't be contributing to a discussion in the first place.
>>146138501>He used to be considered a god by Sonic fans.You mean, by Archie fans.The fact is that before he was a big fish in a small pond, once he got involved in the games he had a lot more of himself to prove to an audience 100 times bigger than he previously had and who have not consumed his previous work. He's also the Pontaff replacement and people fucking hated Pontaff (even though they were just doing their jobs) and were hyper critical of them because the series was no longer doing what they wanted. They are scrutinizing him with the same lens because he is actually doing the same job technically - writing the games the way Sega ask him to do.There is also the issue of the fact that game characterization and comic characterization can be really at odds with each other and his primary influence is the comics - he's always preferred Archie above all else and he doesn't shy away from that either. The problem is he does seem to have a warped lens on his interpretation on many characters and has outright said he thinks they need to be "fixed". Game fans don't necessarily have this opinion so it's jarring for someone to step in with ideas that are at odds with a lot of long time fans.I personally don't care for his writing though he's obviously better than Pontaff, anyone who thinks otherwise is insane. I think the shit writing has just made the fanbase insane and the die hard fans are sick of holding out for a return to form.Ultimately though this is a Sonic Team issue, not an Ian Flynn issue. The Team is rotted, filled with legacy hires who would never make it in any other studio and at this point Sonic Team needs to have someone who knows what they're doing to actually take charge of this, unfortunately Ian is not that person.Aside from all of that though, he is way way way too involved in the fanbase. He clearly enjoys the attention and says a lot of stupid shit without knowing how to shut the fuck up, so I think that gets under people's skin as well.
>>146154489Anon, the comics are a burger thing, while a big chunk of sonic fans in America could be divided by the comics and the games. In the rest of the world, no one knew about them or cared about them. In no timeline, the comics or the cartoon have ever actually been the actual franchise.
>>146155181Sounds like Sega needs to weed archiefags out, that shit is not and will never be the actual Sonic
>>146155236Archie is literally the only version of Sonic Ian cared about. For game information he checks fan wikis.
>>146155271Is that why he seems to randomly forget which version of a character he is writing?
>>146154489>The games became the primary Sonic againThe games have never not been the primary source. What you wrote is written from a very American perspective within the American fandom bubble, the vast majority of Sonic fans at that time would have never consumed anything except the games.
>>146155181>Game fans don't necessarily have this opinionOh come on. The characters being broken, treated as cheerleaders, losing their development, etc. have been complaints for years. There's a reason people kept hyping Movie Knuckles as fixing him.
>>146155236Bring back Pontaff
>>146139578He’s goofy when interacting with the game cast but menacing when interacting with OCs.
>>146151443>>146150540>>146150245>>146150222>>146138514Why do you people act like nobody ever criticizes Ian and everyone dickrides him? The kindest things I've seen people say in this thread are "I liked his Archie work, even if IDW is shit," which is an admission that his latest work has sucked.Sonicfags on Twitter love to dickride IDW, but Twitterfags are barely human, you shouldn't bother listening to them.
>>146154307That issue was never meant to have an unreliable narrator. We are never led to believe that everything we see is somehow warped from Surge’s point of view. Sonic just starts acting like a dickhead to a clearly mentally ill girl just to force drama.
>>146154956I consider Ian "new". We're talking boomers vs millennials.And yeah, Ian didn't get Rouge at all. I argue he still doesn't, it's just not as bad now. The idea that she was outright malicious, liked bullying girls and being a "manstealer" was fucking weird.
>>146155481This place is the exception, and it was still mostly dickriding until about 2020. And now we're swinging to the other extreme again.
>>146155298Which is why the vast majority of the international fandom would have moved on pre adventures. No games of note, no other media, plenty of other games to capture attention. Were international sonic fans going crazy over 3d blast and Sonic R?
>>146155558The Rouge thing was bizarre. It’s not even a case like Tails or Knuckles where other writers took the character in weird directions and had to follow them for the sake of continuity. Every previous writer understood Rouge was an anti-hero, even Penders. There was no reason for Ian to make Rouge cruel enough to want to destroy Blaze’s world.
>>146155609It wasn't really that strange to just be into one game for like five years back then. Most people weren't totally acclimated to the regular commitment of buying regular releases during the 16 bit home council era. A lot of people had like a handful of favorites then rented everything else.
>>146155638lol wait I always assumed this shit was late Penders, not Ian. Why don't people talk about this more?
>>146155638I think you're too focused on a single story. He clearly meant it as her not considering the consequences at first, he just did it poorly. I think the stuff with her and Julie-Su early on was the weird part.
>>146155672Because Rouge barely ever appeared in the preboot, even if she sucked when she did.
>>146155699That makes it even stranger though.Like, here's this character from the games who only shows up on a rare occasion, and this is the impression I want the comic version of her to leave on people.Rouge expositing about the circumstances of the Ark and Shadow at the end of SA2 clearly placed her as a level headed person, not a psycho bitch.
>>146155481>why do people think everyone dickrides him>excluding the one site that does lolbut for real even outside of that site, most people basically give Ian and Evan tons of praise for IDW. Like that other anon said, this place has been the exception
>>146155749Seems like a lot of youtube videos are turning on him now.
>>146155481Essentially the only people who talk about him by name, like him. Most people who dislike the Sonic comics couldn't be bothered to know who wrote them, and probably don't even know Ian is on the games now.
>>146155746People don't think much about the Sonic comics, if they read them at all: case in point, you making a big deal about this right now from second hand info. You probably wouldn't even register this if someone else didn't say it first.There's plenty of politically questionable stuff in Ian's work, but I'm not gonna get into it if bandwagoners like you are just going to take what I say as fact and use it to smear the guy.
>>146155749I've seen some criticism on Ian and Evan on Reddit as well. The difference is the people over there are able to present it without sounding like middle school outcasts
>>146155793Only one I can recall that did that was some video made by this guy https://youtu.be/7xrNSwiTnlA?si=eM6nSpe8aQtUIGQB
>>146155829There's a couple people on here and social media who explain things well and treat the creators fairly. They're just swarmed on all sides by weird pro and anti cultists.
>>146155811That's fair, but I was under the impression that other fans actually read his work, so it seems weird that him butchering a playable character is less important than him trying to insert lesbian OCs and failing.
>>146155864Again, look at yourself. You haven't read his work, yet here you are trying to create bullshit.Just read the books and talk about your own opinions, like damn.
I didn't even knew who the fuck Ian was until I saw a video on why Ken Penders is such a faggot. The guy who made video started dick sucking Ian so hard that I just automatically hated him on the spot. Is every western writer for Sonic just a bunch of cuck faggots?
>>146155884You're essentially telling me they aren't worth my time, then saying I need to read them.Either way I'm not really interested in the comics, I just think it's fascinating that a current writer for the games treated a popular game character this way and no one even seems aware.
>>146155901Everyone who sticks around for more than 8 years, yeah. Normal people move on to new gigs by then.
>>146155937>You're essentially telling me they aren't worth my timeNobody said this.Are you stupid or a schizo?>I'm not actually interested in... comics.Yeah, I can tell. Fuck off, drama whore. I'm not writing your YouTube ragebait essay for you.
>>146154489You're only kind of right. Back then, the fanbase that stuck with the comics past issue 50 were pretty much a totally separate fanbase from people into the games. They were into totally different characters, (any game characters being written totally differently), and had totally different lore and storylines associated with them. And only a handful of fans were actually into both to even cross reference them. It want until Archie had to start integrating Adventure stuff in the Dreamcast era, that the fanbases really integrated again, but there was still a very clear us vs them situation.
>>146155847Nah there’s also these.https://youtu.be/PjHUmrfCdDA?si=pBsLqECcSIOnJl9Xhttps://youtu.be/6jPMTUvylms?si=QV9uTpjP57NqdU0NLots of Frontiers reviews don’t like his writing either.
>>146155951Bro, even if I read the comics, it wouldn't be the old Archie shit. That stuff only exists as a trivial oddity at this point. You're way to stuck in your own bubble.
>>146154489>In the time between 3&k and Adventure, the primary online fanbase of Sonic were Satam/Archie fans, they dominated the early internet back in the day.I blame that on the Saturn era having no mainline Sonic games.
>>146155951>People don't think much about the Sonic comics, if they read them at allIsn't exactly a glowing endorsement.
Ian might actually have improved in Some ways since the Archie days. Though he still keeps having the same flaws and problems as he did back then. I wonder if people actually like Ian's stuff in a vacuum or if they like his stuff in Archie better because of the foundation he built off of. It was kind of a mess when he came on but far from unsalvageable and had lots of cool lore characters an interesting set up. His flaws just became more apparent in IDW since he didn't have as stringent editors to hold him back from him making mistakes. His success on Archie was due to many factors, not just him alone.Or maybe he is just stagnated or something. Make an argument in either direction.
>>146156184>I wonder if people actually like Ian's stuff in a vacuum or if they like his stuff in Archie better because of the foundation he built off of.It's the latter. Early Ian stuff was essentially just him gleefully playing with Pender's toys because he was clearly a fan himself. People are talking about how he initially treated Rouge. I'm pretty sure that had a lot to do with him seeing her role in the games as a threat to Pender's dynamics with the Echidnas. So he placed her firmly as an antagonizing character.
>>146156176That's a statement on readers, not the comics.
>>146156094>Goes on a comic book board.>"Broooo, this book is like...ten years old? Who would ever read that?"Fuck off, tourist.
>>146156261No one recommends pre reboot Archie, even oldfag Archie fans.
>>146156184I like his good stories and would still like them if they weren't Sonic. His work was genuinely better early on because he was a bright eyed kid just doing stuff. He's way too cautious and wallpapers over his own work too much these days.
>>146156297>"My favorite e celeb didn't endorse this, so I shouldn't engage with it."If you want to talk about comic books, you should probably read them first. If you want people who actually read those books to shovel facts your way so you can gossip about shit you didn't even read, you should probably fuck off.
>>146156327No one endorses it period. There is no audience going up to bat this pre Archie. Most of the Ian fans here probably haven't even read it all, because it's a genuine slog to read. Pender's stuff isn't funny bad, it's just boring.
>>146156356>Transitions from "bro I would never read it lmao" to "actually this book was objectively terrible"You're a dramafag farming for shit to whine about for attention on social media. Piss off.
>>146138501Ian got his fame from being the guy who saved the Archie Sonic comics, and while I don't disagree that his work was a massive improvement over what came before, he was writing for a fundamentally different version of Sonic and his world, one that had a ton of stuff set in place that he just had to work with. But with IDW he's was forced to create stuff on his own in a world that was, for the most part, a blank slate and for a version of Sonic and friends who were supposed to be canon.For a large number of people (myself included) the cracks started to show very quickly. You can blame the mandates, but without actually knowing what all those are, we can't do anything but attribute the problems to Ian, problems like IDW's world being shallow as all hell compared to Archie, with a far smaller pool of characters (some see that as a plus, I don't) that and barely a named locations that stands out from one another. Story lines that by and large feel like filler or don't really match the feel of game Sonic. Characters like Sonic not matching up with how he's portrayed in the games and having a BS morality that didn't originally exist characters like Knuckles barely showing up at all.Its only worse for the games where he is actually shaping canon now, and while I'm fine with him doing stuff like expanding on information left out like Abraham Tower's name, its how his writing is changing the characters that is largely the issue there.tl;dr He was good for Archie because it was mess, but now that he's writing canon stuff he's writing isn't up to snuff anymore.
>>146156375Retard, this is a public anonymous image board. Do you really think you can just tell people they need to read pre reboot Archie Sonic, in a thread with Archie Sonic fans, and not expect anyone to chime in? You are hopeless.
>>146156327>>"My favorite e celeb didn't endorse this, so I shouldn't engage with it."Who is?
>>146138501>>146156383>but now that he's writing canon stuffreminder that so far Shadow Generations is the only one of his scripts that actually made it into a Japanese release.not Sonic Generations, Shadow Generations. Sonic Generations' script was left unchanged in Japan.
>>146156659I mean, even then his there are several dialogue changes to his script in Shadow Generations.
I read one of Ian’s terrible archie comics once. Now I have cancer
>>146156659They edited out Sonic holding out his hand to stop Amy from sexually assaultimg him in the Generations cutscene, so his sentiment is clearly reaching overseas.
>>146156416>It's not me I swear I just detailed the conversation for no reason!Nobody even said "you should read this book," just that you should read shit if you want to talk about it. As if that's unreasonable. Get the fuck over yourself.
>>146156814Sure thing, pal.
you're upset with ken, you're upset with ian, the fuck do you people want?
>>146156826Glad you agree that reading books if you want to discuss them is a reasonable suggestion. I was worried you were going to be a petty fag about this.
>>146156814>No one said you have to read pre reboot Archie, you just have to read it to talk about Archie Sonic at all.
>>146156845>you just have to read it to talk about Archie Sonic at all.Quote the person who said that.
>>146156842>You're saying you dislike TWO things??>You can do that???
>>146156857
>>146156872Okay, let's inspect the post.>>you just have to read it to talk about Archie Sonic at all.>Quote the person who said that.Nope. No statement that you need to do this. Weird. It's almost like nobody ever said that and you're just a schizoid jumping at shadows.
>>146156843That guy was openly asking about Archie Rouge, you're making it sound like he was pretending to know about a comic he didn't read.
>>146156892>That guy was openly asking about Archie RougeNo he wasn't. He was asking why people weren't making a big deal out of it and starting drama online about it. He isn't actually interested in the comics, just about creating drama using books he hasn't even read. You're supposed to tell people like that to fuck off. It doesn't add anything to discussion and will just lead to them parroting whatever you say to harass people.
>>146156934I guess I don't understand how him reading the comics prior would make that a less problematic question. That would be bating regardless right?
>>146156967I'm implying that if he actually wanted to talk about the comics instead of flame Ian (even if it ended with anon shitting on him), he'd be asking about the story and how people reacted to it, not why it isn't the same as [current drama]. If someone wants to learn about shit or discuss books, that's one thing, but this guy clearly isn't here for that, so he should fuck off.
>>146156990I'm pretty sure a lot of people who read Ian's comics still would like to "flame" him.
>>146157025There's a big difference between being critical and being a dramawhore jackass with a bone to pick. I don't like him as a writer either, but I've seen a lot of my criticisms on /co/ get retrofitted elsewhere to bully kids and harass creators instead of giving them actual feedback. It sucks. Criticize the man if you feel that way, but don't lift someone else's opinions from shit you haven't even experienced just to bother people.
>>146156842See>>146156236The line between them is much more blurry than people seen to realize.If Ian didn't have to deal with mandates, IDW probably wouldn't be trying to approximate mobius (animal civilians only) and the freedom fighters (the resiste-, I mean restoration), he'd probably just use Pender's favorite toys again.
>>146157076>I've seen a lot of my criticisms on /co/ get retrofitted elsewhere to bully kids and harass creators instead of giving them actual feedback.Huh? Are you someone in particular?
>>146155940Ian tried to move on. His mega man mega flopped, nintendo rejected him, and his OC heroes bit the dust hard.
>>146157190No, I'm some nobody who's seen his text literally copy pasted on other sites like seven times now. It's annoying.
>>146157395He tried to move on way, way too late. It's why he couldn't leave.
>>146154288Exactly, which makes the whole No-Kill dilemma contrived and artificial. Sonic literally has to be OOC just for this plot point to function.>>146154307>A ton of people online really don't and think the writers hate Sonic.Anon, the writers spend most of their time in IDW complaining about the status quo the entire series runs on. There's so many pages where you have characters lean on the fourth wall to whine about trite it all is, can you really blame people for assuming IDW is fueled by bitterness after seeing this exact shit on MULTIPLE occasions?
>>146157480All of those were like 3-4 years after he started and would have flopped regardless of when he tried.
>>146139300>I think he basically needs an editor. This. He needs a wrangler like most writers have, but I think Ian is too proud to really have one (also like most writers). While they existed during his Archie days and even on IDW, I barely hear them mentioned outside of that Paul Kaminski guy who wanted a second Sonic/Megaman crossover and wanted Team Dark killed off in it before fucking off to DC. Ian probably thinks Sega is enough they're just the typical corp overview, not actual assistance in his writing and story direction.
>>146157395It’s sad watching him desperately trying to get that personal project of his going. How many years has it been now?
>>146157620What are you talking about? Far as I know he has resided himself to Sega. Archie gave his OC heroes a shot and Ninty has no reason to change its mind anytime soon.
>>146157635That Drogune comic be and Adam Bryce Thomas have been trying to gain hype for since forever.
People may disagree with me, but I think Ian's best work was the legal mess that was Endangered Species arc from Archie. I liked the eerie, mysterious, and tense tone it was given because loads of characters had to be wiped from the story. It also showed how far Thrash's grudge went, but he wasn't really an evil guy. It was the most alien Ian story because of a massive compromise and tiptoeing.
>>146139578>Implying SatAM Robotnik didn't have goofy moments.
>>146157731There is a difference between a villain who must be threatening but has some goofy moments and a villain who half the time acts like the antichrist and half the time acts like a simple mischief-maker who does the occasional evil deed.
>>146155318What I meant is that they don't see eye to eye with his specific criticisms, I'm well aware that the writing in the games are in complete shambles since probably after Unleashed. I could go in to specifics but what comes to mind off the top of my head is him basically saying he doesn't understand Amy, Shadow, Blaze or Silver and admitted he pretty much doesn't know how to write them or he thinks they should be changed, I remember him even using the word fix at one point. The point is that's at large with the opinions of the game fanbase, who view the characters primarily as their 2000's selves and are basically waiting for those depictions to return. He had a lot of freedom in the comics that allowed alternative characterizations more freely, so it's almost like he's transplanting that which is not what game fans want. So for him to have a different idea for their characterization, and instead of actually using the characters, he kind of doesn't know what he's doing (because he views this as an inherent fault with the original depiction of the characters themselves/his perception of them is blurred from the comics) rubs a lot of people the wrong way - especially when as you say, people have been complaining about them being cheerleaders for the best part of a decade, now they finally see some use after all this time and they don't necessarily feel like themselves.Don't misunderstand, I don't hate him myself or anything and I think to blame him for this is wrong. As I said before this is a Sega/Sonic Team issue, they themselves at this point don't even understand their own characters and have totally lost the reigns on this IP. But that's why the fanbase is so feral about Ian, in general the fandom is just angry at the state of everything and they're taking it out on who they can point to the easiest (Pontaff, Ian, etc).
>>146157677Adam's drawn half of it this year. It should be ready by next summer.I'm really worried about the script.
>>146157612>not actual assistance in his writing and story direction.They actually provided this on Shadow Generations. Guess what: it ended up pretty good.
>>146138501>>146138514 This picture explains it perfectly, Ian even responded to it
>>146155181I think they should just bring Maekawa back, but I think he would cost more than Ian and I'm sure as hell Sega doesn't want to pay anyone extra since they're notorious cheap-asses, especially when it comes to Sonic.
>>146156236>Early Ian stuff was essentially just him gleefully playing with Pender's toysBy slaughtering most of them?
>>146138501>He used to be considered a god by Sonic fans.He used to be considered a god by ARCHIE Sonic fans, who dominated discourse online for a while. Now that he's having to deal with the wider fandom, there's naturally just going to be more people around to disagree with that.
>>146157612>I barely hear them mentioned outside of that Paul Kaminski guyBecause he had the worst ideas.
>>146157766>what comes to mind off the top of my head is him basically saying he doesn't understand Amy, Shadow, Blaze or Silver and admitted he pretty much doesn't know how to write them or he thinks they should be changed>I could go in to specificsOh please do, I would love to know where you got this from.
>>146155901I remember that.Straight up quote from the video word for word:>"The prevailing narrative on Flynn's work was that he was a huge Sonic fan, so he's able to make great Sonic comics, but lots of super fans have tried writing their favorite properties and the results can be disastrous, but Flynn is not just an uber fan, Flynn is a WRITER. He's a lover of the english language, of literature, of theater. When I spoke to Flynn, he was polished and professional, he knows when to hit a sound bite or make a joke, but when we talked about writing and the works he loves, he rambled passionately and all sorts of interesting directions. I don't know if I've ever spoken with someone who lights up talking about the poetry of e.e.cummings to then raves about Rob Liefeld and X-Cutioner's Song in the same conversation, who celebrates the mass entertainment value of Shakespeare and Fullmetal Alchemist at the same time, who raves about the worldbuilding in Vonnegut and Stephen King's Dark Tower. He can reconcile high art and low art, craft and fandom, and THAT is what makes him perfect for Sonic."I bet even Ian would cringe at that as well. Part of me thinks the guy was low-key taking the piss saying all that.
>>146157830That anon was right though? That list has gotten even longer by now. He's now the narrative director for Rivals of Aether. I never understood how this screenshot is a gotcha.
>>146156804That was apparently disliked by Sonic Team way before Ian wrote the games. The japanese fans of Sonic also found the scene mean.
>>146157859Karl Bollers wrote that story. Locke's the only notable Penders character that bit the dust under Ian.
>>146157927It's Rick and Morty copypasta tier.
>>146157976And Ian continued the tradition by destroying even more civilizations of people.
>>146157835Well that's the issue isn't it, all the talent such as Maekawa left Sonic Team and only the legacy hires like Kishimoto and Iizuka who are too shitty to work on anything else are left. That's why they outsource everything to the west because no one there is good enough to write the stories outside of outlining scenarios now. I think there's a real self of ego with the current staff, they didn't seem thrilled about Mania doing so well and it speaks volumes they never brought the Mania team back. Even Maekawa mentioned in the last few years he'd love to come back and work on Sonic and yet crickets.I really feel like the whole franchise needs a refresh with a new team and a strong leader who can take control properly because it'll just never get better like this. You know what, I'll give Ian credit, he at least cares about Sonic and he obviously can only do so much based on the confines of what Sonic Team will allow. I actually wish people put as much effort in trying to get rid of the shitty staff who really need to get booted out as they did for Ian - but as I said, he's an easier target.>>146157914I'm fairly certain the specific thing about fixing was on deviantart back in the day, I remember reading it on his journal I believe? Though perhaps it was a transcribe of an interview and not on his account, being honest you're asking me to remember random snippets of things I've seen over the past 15 years and I'm not here to really argue about pedantics or smear him or anything like that, personally I don't care much, I'm just trying to point out why he's attracting so much hate and where they are coming from. Me personally I think it's over the top and people exaggerate what start out as fair criticisms, but that's also why he should retreat from interacting with fans so much, you're basically inviting them to do this to you.
>>146157830Good to see he is branched out and not married to Sonic products. If nobody else is complaning about his work, then this "problem" seems to be a sonic fandom one.
>>146158018>I'm not here to really argue about pedantics or smear him or anything like thatSpreading misinformation does exactly that so I don't believe you.
>>146158018>he at least cares about Sonic Archie Sonic to be exact.
>>146158045Nobody complains about his other work because nobody cares about it.
>>146156236>I'm pretty sure that had a lot to do with him seeing her role in the games as a threat to Pender's dynamics with the Echidnas.Schizo takes like this are why I browse these threads.
>>146157945Ian we know it's you dude
>>146157945You forgot to put Indivisible in your resume, Ian. What's wrong? Afraid it might make such a dire list look even worse?
>>146157830I love how he put the ARMS comic in there. The shit didn't even come out, probably because even Nintendo knew it was bad.
>>146158047I mean I'm fairly sure I've seen people recently blow up about that Amy stuff, but he's been open about that since back in the day so it's not exactly new lol. I don't interact much with the fandom these days and just enjoy the games from afar, so idk if you want to go trawl through content to find it be my guest, otherwise I don't really mind that you don't believe me to be honest, they're not even my complaints it's what the fanbase themselves are annoyed about so shrug.>>146158056He clearly loves Archie but I know he cares about the franchise being good overall. His heart is in the right place and I think he is trying? But yeah he definitely loves the Sonic that is Archie Sonic first and foremost. He's at least better than Pontaff who really held no affection for the series at all.
>>146158139
>>146158139>Actually looked this up.>It's true.My brothers in Christ, how does this man even have fans? Was his Archie run just THAT good?
>>146158202Love or hate, Sonic fans are only ones anal enough to call him out. Anything non sonic on that list either failed or was blip on radar with worse writers.
>>146158167>otherwise I don't really mind that you don't believe me to be honest, they're not even my complaintsExcept you're not talking about complaints, you're making statements about what he said himself. Those are entirely two separate things. Also stop with this wishy-washy shit. You say you don't interact with the fandom but apparently know what the fandom's opinions are on things to write paragraphs about.
>>146158202Sonic fans have no taste and will gobble up the most putrid shit on earth (archie) and call it "peak on gahh bruh"All these years later and they're still the idiots of the fictional fandom world
>>146158167>He's at least better than Pontaff We can't keep liking him purely because he's "better than the other guy". It's like saying we diluted the bottle of piss with water, so it's good.to drink, even though there is still piss in there.
>>146158234>We can't keep liking him purely because he's "better than the other guy".Still works for Maekawa.
>>146158167Archie Sonic is a literal cancer, any retard who likes that trash should not be near the games. SEGA needs to clean the house and get rid of all the Archie and comicfags and get people who like the actual franchise, the fucking games.
>>146155695That was my problem with it too. Especially his fucking Chaotix run immediately afterwards was trash thanks to him ruining Rouge to try and forcefully ship her with knuckles.
>>146158248I think people want Surge, Jewel, Lanolin, and Belle to be lesbians at this point.
>>146158241Who was Maekawa "better than" when he was writing?
>>146158242>X character wasn't like this in Archie, they have to change them in the real version now now now!Agreed. Archie and its defenders are faggots and should never be allowed to ruin the games
>>146158252What Chaotix run?
>>146158261Anybody else. People keep calling for him to return because he's better than anyone else after him.
>>146158271the storyline immediately after the sonic/fiona birthday, where knuckles and the chaotix and julie and rouge are all doing their own thing. very forgettable but another example of ian shitting on rouge's character because he wanted her to be knuckles' trophy
>>146158242>and get people who like the actual franchise, the fucking games.Like Pontaff.
Sonic should have writing like Teen Titans Go
>>146158257Surge is probably a dykeJewel wants to fuck TangleLanolin is abusive and angry all the time so she's a prime lesbo exampleBelle I keep forgetting exists
>>146158286>the storyline immediately after the sonic/fiona birthday, where knuckles and the chaotix and julie and rouge are all doing their own thingThere was no storyline like that.
>>146158293We got that alreadyAnd it was pretty good
>>146158286He clearly doesn't like Rouge because of her sex appeal. The Sonic movie guy Jeff Fowler feels the same way.
>>146147787>>146147787>His IDW run probably would have been better off going the route of standalone adventures rather than trying to continue a massive lore saga like archie, but we see his results.He would never do that, though. And that's not mandates or editorial, it's himself. His Classic stories show he CAN write these characters better, he CAN make them have shorter fun adventures, he just doesn't want to. To him, Modern Sonic has to be something like Claremont X-Men, like Archie was, and he'll do as close as he can to that and when not allowed to he'll go get paid on his podcast to complain about it
>>146158286>because he wanted her to be knuckles' trophyWait, I'm confused. I thought he hated Rouge because she was a threat to Penders' echidna dynamics?
>>146158220Anon, you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Are you one of those people who just has to keep going until they feel they've gotten the last word in or something? There isn't even anything to argue about, if you want to argue with the fanbase about why they seethe about him then twitter is over there. I'm not here to prove anything, I'm a long time fan who's just shooting the shit and reminiscing about a franchise I used to like on a Vietnamese basket weaving forum, so don't take it so personally kek.>>146158234I mean I have criticisms about him as well and he's definitely not who I would pick to be the writer. It's just I have to be fair here and at least recognize that he cares and he's trying even if he doesn't quite meet the mark (for various reasons). My beef is with who actually holds the power rather than him, he's a small fry in comparison.
>>146157713Definitely out of his comfort zone, yeah.>>146157830>Ian even responded to itDid some dilshit drag this out in front of him?
Maekawa was better but Ian was not bad. Sure Ian had a few stinkers but that's on a long running series, hardly comparable. I wish Archie still existed like it did in preboot and the games were still written by the Japanese. That would've been the best compromise and people would be happy (who Ami kidding fans of the games would still shit on the comics and demand for them to be like the games while comics fans would gas up it and say that the comics should replace the games storys). Actually instead maybe its just a grass is greener on other side situation. Archie is peak and so is Satam. I will always remember it even if Sega seems to wants fans to forget about them. Sonic Team only cares about stuff they had a direct hand in and everything else is treatment like its worthless. That's kind of sad.
>>146158305yes there was. it was that plot when ian brought back renfield (the villain who was like clutch but even lamer)
>>146158365>Anon, you're arguing for the sake of arguing.I'm calling you for spreading misinformation which just furthers fuels these ridiculous extreme takes in discourse. I don't care what you call it.
>>146158363Rouge had never even spoken to Knuckles until Ian made her appear out of nowhere and forced a cringy love triangle between her and Julie because he wanted Knuckles to have two bitches on his dick. Previous writers made her do her own thing just stealing things, if she was a "threat" it's because Ian was a faggy shipper
>>146157927No, he just wanted to generate clicks and people were praising Ian at the time. He was running around pestering influencers to watch and comment on his videos. Dude's a snake.
>>146158389He didn't write that story, stupid. That's a Romy Chacon (Justin Gabrie) story.
>>146158380Its not weird for people to not care about stuff they didn't make. Why should they care?
archie in general is just very cancerous. I really disliked how badly it protrayed half the game cast
>>146158242>>146158471archie sonic is so bad it gave me cancer
>>146138501Only because he was better than who came before him. Now he's got nobody to deflect his mediocrity onto.
I like how Ian writes Zavok and the Deadly Six. That's it. I think they're one of the few characters he's able to grasp.
>>146158498The most boring generic characters ever, what is there to GET!?
Archie is good on its own but a poor adaptation of the games. I like how it handled some aspects of its storytelling better than the games did. No, this isn't because Archie fans hate the games, its because they were good as its own thing. I liked Archie because it was different, and it was really fleshed out and detailed, whereas the games take a very different approach. Both have their strengths in their own way.
>>146158317At least Fowler respects the character, or at the very least fans of her, enough to simply not use her. That's a far better alternative than to censor or destroy her character outright out of some weird puritan vendetta.
When people say he's better than penders it's mostly that he had a much, much better artist on hand than penders did, which makes the stories look better. When I look at their writing only it's almost indistinguishable between eachother, except that Penders creates more new characters and Ian just reuses them.Gallagher mogs both
>>146158389>it was that plot when ian brought back renfieldOh that, that was like half an issue. It wasn't a storyline.
>>146138501Doesn't make a difference. He's got steady income as long as this spastic fanbase exists.
>>146158522>its because they were good as its own thingArchie is dogshit though so that's not true.
>>146158535doubtful, he has admitted he only does the podcast because he needs it to pay rentinshallah he will die poor and alone on a state-funded smelly hospital bed
>>146158411>Rouge had never even spoken to Knuckles until Ian made her appear out of nowhere
>>146158498Ian made Zavok tolerable by turning him into a generic Klingon. Penders would be proud.
>>146158526>When people say he's better than penders it's mostly that he had a much, much better artist on hand than penders did, which makes the stories look better.No one wants to admit this because it essentially means admitting to being tricked, but it's fucking real.
>>146158522>Archie is good on its own but a poor adaptation of the games.It was never an adaptation of the games, nor intended to be one.
>>146158570It's surreal seeing a post adventure exclusive character drawn in jank old human proportioned Archie style.
>>146158526>it's mostly that he had a much, much better artist on hand than penders didMan I don't why you guys want to project this idea that pretty pictures is so mesmerizing to you that you ignore things like story and dialogue over it, but please keep it to yourself.
>>146138501A lot of his early work spun off of Penders' mess. He wrote like a fan would write; brimming with ideas and dialog. All the problems he saw with the writing, everything he could improve upon. It was great as he pushed passed all baggage, but once he was flying free, especially with the new run, it just wasn't as interesting. I know some fans of the new stuff, but that decades of lore from before was fun to connect and watch evolve with him. Without that, I personally didn't have much interest.
>>146158526>>146158582subsconsciously your brain kinda credits ian for yardley's art that for once actually looked like their adventure artif it were penders' art of them all standing around at a birthday party or cheerleading for sonic i would hate it
>>146158560Yeah, there is no way his life is set just by writing a few games. He's not even a Sega employee so he's not being paid by the hour for the position, just by contract for whatever he's hired for.
>>146158526That's the solution, we need more OCs.
>>146158526Their writing styles are very very different. The main differences I noticed is that Penders dialogue is very old school and sometimes weird whereas Ian makes the dialogue more witty and bantery or something. Like Joss Whedon thing but without bathos and a taking itself seriously in serious situations. That is already a massive difference. Second, Ian's stories are more action packed and fast paced than Penders, stuff happens more often too. The over narration and exposition stuff is gone. Ian makes the characters more distinct too. Those are the main differences I can come up with. Ken tries to make his comics deeper but didn't really succeed whereas Ian's stories are a little more shallow I feel. Ken goes to making allusions to real life atrocities and goes too far with that stuff and it is kind of offensive. Ian keeps things more fictional and doesn't really try to be deep the way Penders did. Tell me more differences/similarities.
>>146158560الله كريم the fāsiq will be struck down and laid low by the almighty as he deserves
>>146158560Even after all is said and done, Penders is still better off financially than Ian due to his rich wife.Ain't that a bitch, Flynn?
>>146158645Yeah that's what being freelance means.
>>146158365>It's just I have to be fair here and at least recognize that he cares and he's trying even if he doesn't quite meet the mark (for various reasons).Anon, at a certain point, "trying" just doesn't cut it anymore. I don't want a writer who merely "tries" but fumbles it every single time, as the head writer of an entire franchise! I want someone who actually DOES make good stories. Someone who DOES understand the characters and respects their dynamics beyond their wiki page descriptions. Someone who isn't trying to fundamentally change said characters to suit their whims. Someone who understands that, while this may be a franchise targeted at kids, that isn't an excuse to deliver subpar work.Am I really asking for a lot here?
>>146158612That's a big difference between Sega Sonic and Archie Sonic. The former introduces new concepts because of the gameplay and adventure aspect, while Archie delves more on its established lore because of the comic format.
>>146158658So why is Penders still seething about it years later?
>>146138501Thank you for making this thread. It's like witnessing a zoo of people who can't stop shitting themselves with every word.
>>146158645>>146158560He has a normie job outside of writing for Archie. His employment represents a sad state of creatives as gig economy workers even when they're lead writers for multiple projects.
>>146158663>as the head writer of an entire franchise!Since when?
>>146158658I swear, Penders' life is just being hard-carried by his lawyer wife.
>>146158603>that you ignore things like story and dialogue over itIt's specifically because I read Ian's awful story and horrible dialogue that I know the only thing carrying him was Yardley's art.
>>146158685That's what he gets for digging a hole for himself as "the sonic guy". HIs ego got to him and he spent too much time thinking of himself as the sonic loremaster and now there's no escaping
>>146158692Ian has been writing most Sonic projects nowadays.
>>146158683get ian's dick out your mouth, porky
>>146158700I enjoyed both for their own merits. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you have to come up with weird headcanons about them.
>>146158680He's completely delusional. That's what you get from the guy that wrote and illustrated Echidna breastfeeding.
>>146158722I can think of multiple he didn't write or wasn't the lead on. I think you're gassing him up too much by saying he's the head writer.
>>146158710Ian knows he has nothing outside of Sonic. It's the most consistent part of his career Penders thought he could reach higher, but didn't and had to retreat back to Sonic with his lawsuit and his Lara-Su Chronicles trash and reprinting old Archie issues.
>>146158655>>146158700Its fine to think Ian is a bad writer but Ian's and Penders writing styles are worlds apart in style. Look at my post, and tell me what you agree and disagree about it. I don't often tell people to get more media literacy as I don't have much of my own but you have a not great understanding of Archie if you think Penders and Ian's styles are similar. There's similarities but on the whole they are very different.
>>146158731I'm glad you love to eat shit, anon. But it's still shit whether you shovel it down your throat or not
>>146158663NTA but yeah you're asking for a lot. Ian is good enough like a fast food worker is good enough. I don't go to Sonic stories looking for a lot, especially fully understanding what continuity in game canon would have me believe that's in character in the moment. He can have fun with it like the others did before him. It's never going to be anything solid and it might give me heartburn, but I know the risks and I've set my expectations. It'd be cool if he were better, it'd be cool if this burger looked like the picture.
>>146158759>What "headcanons" nigger?>When people say he's better than penders it's mostly that he had a much, much better artist on hand than penders didIt's only been like 15 minutes anon
>>146158772Both Ian and Flynn babble too much.
>>146158710That's tangential from what I'm saying. Where has he displayed having a large ego?
>>146158789Nothing wrong with talking to yourself.
>>146158761Ian could definitely cut it as a screenwriter or comics writer. Nothing super exceptional but there's worse who have managed to make a career out of it.
>>146158783That's called a statement, or a claim, or a presumption, or an observationa headcanon refers to something a fan of a series imagines about the characters that doesn't appear on screen/on the pageGo outside and touch some grass, Ianblob
>>146158783I mean, that's kinda true. Would people still like Ian's writing if the comic was still drawn by Ron Lim?
>>146158655>Ian makes the characters more distinct tooIan makes every character speak utterly homogenous. This is the opposite of how Ian writesAnd while Ian doesn't make allusions to the holocaust the shit he does with the echidnas is the exact same as the cringy too-far shit Penders was always doing
>>146158818archiefags think they are cartoon characters living in a cartoon world, because they're so mentally in denial from their sad pathetic realities
>>146158801This. He has the basics, he knows how to meet a deadline. He's not great but he can get the job done.
>>146158819I liked some of Bollers stuff and the art sometimes let down his writing. But the art definitely factors into the enjoyment value a lot I'll admit. Ian was still an improvement.
>>146158683It's because Ian sucks now, so there's not enough people interested in defending him to tell the Tailscel to fuck off.>>146158772>>146158655Yeah, I don't really see the similarities between Penders and Ian. Penders has everyone talking in cornball 50s sci-fi dialogue like "You aren't animal, mineral, or vegetable!" or crappy 90s "hip" dialogue like "Hasta la vista, meestah!" and has all the cast wander through exposition dumps until something-or-other (usually not the heroes) stops the bad guy. Ian can at least write an arc where the heroes fight and defeat a bad guy, even if he does stretch it out to 19 issues or whatever.
>>146158819>Would people still like Ian's writing if the comic was still drawn by Ron Lim?I liked that Antoine story with his father passing despite the very awkward art.
>>146158818>Go outside and touch some grass>says the guy ranting about kids comics on 4chankek
>>146158905>"You aren't animal, mineral, or vegetable!"That one always gets me.
>>146158906that story was the worst. so melodramatic and cringealso kinda hilarious bunnie admits to Antoine "you don't mind that aa' fucked Sawnic behind your back sugah-plum?" but she never mentions to him that she also fucked ScourgeI might be misremembering but i think Antoine's dad even tells him to marry her anyway even though she cucked him with Sonic. Oh boy that's sure what I play a Sonic the Hedgehog game to see!
>>146158936It just shows that Penders had no idea what the fuck Shadow is supposed to be. He's a fucked-up genetic experiment, not a robot. Locke should know he's an animal.
>>146158945>Oh boy that's sure what I play a Sonic the Hedgehog game to see!Apply this statement to Ian's entire archie run
>>146158905He tries to make big epic sagas with his arcs lengths but still the best stuff he's written was 12 issues or lower in length. Mecha Sally's main problem was that it was stretched out. I really hope that plan with Neo Sally was going to be vetoed by the editors. They had bad ideas of their own but surely they could see that stretching out an arc like this even longer would be a bad idea.
>>146158957Shadow is artificial, so he technically isn't a *real* animal.
>>146158983neo sally? Do tell
>>146158989yes he is, lab grown or otherwise animal is a biological term
>>146158982Not that anon, but I never wanted Ian to write the Sonic games because them and Archie were completely different interpretations of Sonic, but peopled fooled themselves into thinking Ian's writing was universal to the franchise, not just adaptable and strengthened to one part of it.
>>146158994The deroboticized Sally after Mecha Sally ended was actually going to be a fake and the real Sally would be found much later. This sounds like a similar situation to Endgame where the Sally sonic gets out of the coffin was originally actually going to be a fake until they shortly changed their minds.So many issues for Mecha Sally was already stretching things, but going even longer was a horrible idea. This is according to Ben Bates.
>>146159047i heard of that story, didn't know the mecha sally was gonna be turned into a real girl.
>>146159047That's a rumor that Ian already debunked.
>>146158983Agreed, that's what fucked up the Zombot arc. Sonic and company vs. a Zombie apocalypse could've been a blast, but between Shadow being a retard, the melodrama (pic fucking related), and the arc stretching on for 19 issues, it was just a chore. The camping issue and Sonic giving Scourge a tour of the Restoration HQ could've easily been 3-page backup stories or something, though those could've been Evan's fault.>>146158989I guess, but Dolly the clone sheep was still a sheep.
>>146159042Sonamy isn't in the Bible, retard.
>>146159092Okay maybe there was miscommunication then between artists and writers. Where did this debunk come from?
>>146159047Ian said that wasn't true, but Ben claimed that was the story, but at the same time Ian couldn't entirely remember how he wanted it to end it, so maybe he just forgot?Ben also said the search for the real Sally was supposed to last about five years during the comic's run. That sounds crazy.
>>146138501Because the "Sonic fans" in question were always just archie-only manchildren who self-inserted as archie sonic and loved Ian's eternal harem wankfest in the comic>>146159164Case Example
>>146158781>especially fully understanding what continuity in game canon would have me believe that's in character in the moment.I'm not asking for continuity! It's fucking Sonic, continuity is a meme and the fact Ian obsesses over that that is part of why his work sucks. I just want actually fun adventures that don't take themselves too seriously, with characters that actually act like they usually do.The bar is fucking LOW, and Ian manages to dig right under it.
>>146159175sounds like Ian is embarrassed if he doesn't know his own planned ending but his coworkers remember>>146159181This. Archie had zero value if you didn't self-insert. So once archie was over and the waifus were gone suddenly all you're left with is an very incompetent and unqualified writer trying to build a comic setting from scratch
>>146159121https://web.archive.org/web/20220609203445/https://twitter.com/benbatesart/status/1247625791149617153>I have no idea where Ben got that information. That isn't remotely what I had planned. Sally would've been restored at the end of the "King Naugus Arc," around #200.
>>146159212Ian had never worked on a comic before archie, or on anything before archie. his only literary achievement was his cringy Sonic x Fiona fancomic Other M. He was standing on the shoulders of giants just reusing the shit that they built.No shit he's unqualified to start the IDW comic on his own after archie went wet-fart. He has NO EXPERIENCE doing this.
>>146159181>Ian's eternal harem wankfestIan mostly got rid of the harem shit, he fobbed Fiona off on Scourge, hooked Antoine up with Bunnie, left Mina with Ash, and barely gave Amy a moment's notice. The harem thing was during the Penders/Bollers run.
>>146159242Ian fobbed Fiona on Scourge because she is edgy Sonic, and also kept her constantly flirting and in love with regular Sonic.Penders left Mina with Ash, not Ian.Antoine was already with Bunnie because of Penders.Ian got both Amy and Sally to date Sonic.
>>146159242Yeah the only girl who he had any interest in by then was Sally. I don't know where this Ian harem stuff is coming from.
>>146159240When will people learn? never hire fans.
>>146159287Based Pontaff, come back.
>>146159299I'd take them over Ian honestly. Land on pine needles or land on rocks
>>146159287Get her fuckin' rags off.
>>146159265>Ian fobbed Fiona on Scourge because she is edgy Sonic, and also kept her constantly flirting and in love with regular Sonic.The whole point of that was she liked Scourge better than Sonic. She literally dumps Sonic for Scourge the first chance she gets. She even says she only dated Sonic because she wanted him as a substitute for Scourge.>PendersPoint still stands, whatever "romance" Mina and Bunnie had with Sonic was over by Ian's run.>Ian got both Amy and Sally to date Sonic.The Amy date was one issue, and both Amy and Sally have always canonically been in love with Sonic.
>>146159222Ian also says.https://web.archive.org/web/20200728232439/https://twitter.com/IanFlynnBKC/status/1288252501846904832>Wait...#200 was the Eggman defeat, wasn't it?>#250 then. Whatever the milestone was. It's been awhile and two reboots - cut me some slack =PSo he clearly doesn't fully remember.
>>146159222It's telling Bates deleted that tweet. He's not even sure of what he heard.
Ian made the Archie Sonic comics cool again. It felt like its tagline was inaccurate until Ian course corrected it. Ian saved the comic since it had been in a rut for a few years prior. Though 124-141 was actually decent barring a few low points. The limit scene was really an example of that though Sonic was slightly insane there and it didn't really feel fully cool. Stuff like "sonic is an WMD and Sally aims him" "sonics absorbed so much chaos energy that he is the embodiment of chaos" the quippy dialogue at times, the art, the action packed nature of his stories, the deep lore being used to full potential it was all just so awesome.
>>146159341Mecha Sally being a fake is a big plot point. That's not the same as mistaking the issue number. Don't confuse things.
>>146159337The whole point was that Scourge is Sonic but just wanked because "he doesn't hold back" and she loves Sonic so much she wanted Sonic to act edgy too when he dates her. He is literally Sonic but edgy just so Ian can constantly wank him off and call him a "multiversal king" with zero irony. And then Sonic beats Scourge up and gloats and Fiona keeps flirting with Sonic the entire run because Ian self-inserts as him>Point still standsNo, because it was over by PENDERS' run. Ian did nothing but bring it back up, Penders ended it.>The Amy date was one issue, and both Amy and Sally have always canonically been in love with Sonicand frankly with what a jackass archie sonic is to amy, she shouldn't still be in love with him, but lord knows Ian needs to pawn off every available girl onto his douchebag self-insert
>>146159343>>146159341>>146159222>>146159121This is the kinda shit that happens when you combine "telephone" with hazy memories. I used to think I'd seen one of the Bond flicks in the theaters, but then I realized I was only 3 years old when it came out.
>>146159379We have no idea how far these conversations went to end that arc. What Bates said was probably an off-handed idea that was quickly dismissed and forgotten.
>>146159355>Stuff like "sonic is an WMD and Sally aims him" "sonics absorbed so much chaos energy that he is the embodiment of chaos"YikesYou guys ARE adults...right? Actually it'd be less embarassing if you weren't.
>>146159405And even if that's true that would still mean it was never the intended plot, which was the point.
>>146159411Idk man its just way past cool. Ian didn't hold back and made everything so cool, no restraint. I liked that a lot.
>>146159392>He is literally Sonic but edgy just so Ian can constantly wank him off and call him a "multiversal king" with zero irony.Except when Ian's having his ass get beaten and making him a bitch crybaby.>Fiona keeps flirting with Sonic the entire run because Ian self-inserts as himBecause she's a flirty villainess, like Rouge. She's not actually into him.>Ian did nothing but bring it back upWhen? He never seriously entertained the idea that Sonic was ever going to get together with either of them.>and frankly with what a jackass archie sonic is to amy, she shouldn't still be in love with him, but lord knows Ian needs to pawn off every available girl onto his douchebag self-insertBoth characters had been written to be interested in Sonic long before Ian came onto the scene. The whole point of Amy is that she had an unreciprocated stalker crush on Sonic.
>>146159439You seem like you'd like jangling keys. I recommend watching Sword Art Online, that seems your kinda style
>>146158498I fail to see how, they somehow even less going for them under Ian then they did in Lost World.
>>146159495Both power fantasies and wish fulfillment are good, stories with substance are good too.
>>146159482The only time Ian lets anyone beat him up is Sonic so Sonic can preen to the audience about how awesome and "good" he is. The only time he's ever "a bitch baby" is when Jules threatens that Sonic will beat him up and he's scared of Sonic the eternal gary stu>She's not actually into himExcept when she is, and does not flirt with literally anyone, and flirts with Sonic more than Scourge (who is literally Sonic)>When?When Antoine's dad is dying, every time Fiona appears>Both characters had been written to be interested in Sonic long before Ian came onto the sceneAnd Ian so badly wants both of them to be dating him it seems, can't have Amy move on when she can be kissing Sonic's feet while he insults her
>>146159392>but lord knows Ian needs to pawn off every available girl onto his douchebag self-insertImagining seething so hard at Ian you want him to erase Amy's crush. Guess you got your wish though.
>>146138501oh god now you woke up the Ian defence force
>>146159530>The only time Ian lets anyone beat him up is SonicPrison arc
>>146159543If you ask me it should be 1 girl or no girl. Don't have your cake and eat it too.
>>146159561When he has a power-inhibitor collar, and as soon as he gets it off makes everyone there his bitch without even trying or struggling?What a prime example of wank.
>>146159555Trips confirm, lolEvery archie thread should expect this though, they never leave their computers
>>146159574>makes everyone there his bitch without even trying or struggling?Dude had to unleash two god level characters so him and the gang could run away.
>>146159595Dude beats up everyone in the prison one by one while gloating about how he's sonic the multiveral king hedgehog and he's the strongest character evarIan's writing on scourge and sonic would make the coldsteel guy cringe
>>146159555Holy Trips
>>146159574SatBK has plenty of wank to Sonic too yet that doesn't preclude that story from having depth meaning and substance. The game is way cool just like how Archie was.Remember, the games kind of treated Sonic like that too sometimes with Forces as well.Also Scourge is supposed to be an egotistical guy with delusions of grandeur anyways.
This is why the singular French comic is way better than archie's entire run
>>146159610>Dude beats up everyone in the prison one by oneHe beats up a bunch of mooks, no one actually a threat.>while gloating about how he's sonic the multiveral king hedgehog and he's the strongest character evarBoth proven false, something Fiona even points out to him that his title really meant nothing. The point of the whole arc was that he needed a team to stand a chance because he couldn't do shit on his own. I think you gas Scourge more than anyone else.
>>146159644Nobody has read that.
>>146159640except when the plot constantly validates him and tries to say he's right. Sonic even gloats to the Iron Dominion like "Scourge showed me if I really wanted to and le stopped holding back I could conquer the planet, you better all be scared of me hnyeh hnyeh" while effortlessly trouncing their entire army by himself and not breaking a sweatAfter a while of wanking your pet character it just gets annoying
Is keeping power levels consistent a good thing. I think Sonic ideally should be one of the strongest characters in the cast, both Archie and The games operate under that logic at least.
>>146159661He beat up every antagonist character that had appeared in the book, not a single character makes him struggle>something Fiona even points out to him that his title really meant nothingFiona "points out to him" that he beat up everyone on the planet on his own, immediately after the arc saying the entire evil FF are weak pussies who can't do anything against an evil sonic and bow to him like a godScourge and Sonic were both the shittiest characters in archie, only sonic self-inserters gobble up this dogshit
>>146159530>The only time Ian lets anyone beat him up is Sonic so Sonic can preen to the audience about how awesome and "good" he is.Because nobody else has superspeed (except Shadow, but he was off doing GUN shit) and he's Sonic's nemesis.>The only time he's ever "a bitch baby" is when Jules threatens that Sonic will beat him up and he's scared of Sonic the eternal gary stuAnd when he's a prison fart-slave. The whole point of Scourge is he's a loser faggot bully who lucked out in the superpower lottery.>Except when she is, and does not flirt with literally anyone, and flirts with Sonic more than Scourge (who is literally Sonic)She fake-flirted with Tails right before Sally gutpunched her. Sonic also goes "Just like old times, eh Fiona?" at one point and Fiona goes "You wish." Fiona also never broke into a fucking prison to save Sonic the way she did for Scourge.>When Antoine's dad is dyingSo one issue.>And Ian so badly wants both of them to be dating him it seems, can't have Amy move on when she can be kissing Sonic's feet while he insults herThe Amy date was one issue when Sally had left Sonic for Monkey Khan. Dating somebody to see if they're right for you is normal.
>>146159668I have. It's true. I recommend it to others
>>146159677It's a good thing, but you have to dramatically lower Sonic and Scourge's power levels whenever the Tailscel wants or he'll cry.
>>146159676Yeah well the first stuff still holds true. Even if Sonic is unusually powerful in this setting, that doesn't necessarily mean that the story is disqualified from having meaning and depth and stuff. Maekawa proved that.Also Ian reportedly didn't like Archie Sonic that much as he was the same type of guy that "gave him trouble back in school" paraphrased or something. I think that it was less Archie Sonic being a power fantasy self insert and more Ian just seeing Sonic that way.
>>146159706Because he's a wanked pet there to beat up every other character and wank off Sonic. He's not a real character, just a narrative tool for Ian to wank off Sonic for entire arcs at a time>The whole point of Scourge is he's a loser faggot bully who lucked out in the superpower lotteryThe "whole point of Scourge" is that Sonic's the bestest and the strongest and would beat up everyone in the world if he "le stopped holding back". Sonic himself says this out loud in two concurrent arcs>Fiona also never broke into a fucking prison to save Sonic the way she did for Scourge.That wasn't flirting with Tails, that was making Tails try to vouch for her by saying she still has good inside.Calling Sonic "handsome" and blowing kisses at Sonic is flirting>So one issue."It doesn't count because I say it doesn't!">Dating somebody to see if they're right for you is normal.Stringing along multiple characters all to wank off your self-insert, especially when your self-insert is rude and insulting to one of them, and making the other girl an outright cuck for your self-insert like that date issue, is not normal
>>146159704>He beat up every antagonist character that had appeared in the bookNo he didn't. He beat up a bunch of no-name prisoners and a few guards.>Fiona "points out to him" that he beat up everyone on the planet on his ownNo he beat up a few warlords and titled himself king just from that, he didn't beat up everyone.
>>146159725>he says, now crying because the rest of the world won't dicksuck his self-insert fur cuck fanficSonic self-inserters touch a real girl, please. If you wash they might make it past your stench
>>146159676>while effortlessly trouncing their entire army by himself and not breaking a sweatUntil the Iron King would have wrecked his shit. A character Sonic consistently has no chance with even with help.
>>146159768He beat up every character that had ever been mean to him that entire run while gloating how he's the most powerfulest character ever and no other character even stands a chance against edgy soni-i mean scourge.>No he beat up a few warlords and titled himself king just from thatand Knuckles, and the evil FF, and Geoffrey, and the king. He beat up everyone because his only purpose is to be a wank gary stu powerfantasy for a morbidly obese self-inserter with no talent to write
>>146159760>>146159737It probably isn't a self insert character. Why would someone self insert as somebody they dislike? I think he just wanked the main cast in general and the opponents like Eggman to an extent that it no longer feels like wanking. I think the idea of the combots early on being nearly invulnerable and Sonic being incapable of harming them wasn't as cool as the Egg Beater. I aslo think Sonic jobbing to Patch and getting threatened by regular guards is too far in the opposite direction. All of the major characters were treated like serious deals and exceptional in a way. Did Ian self insert as Geoffrey just because he managed to beat up all of the Freedom Fighters on his own? No.
>>146159775That's not just him, that's what EVERY archiefag is like.
>>146159817The other characters always got downplayed and made to look weak so that Sonic can look strong. Geoffrey beat up every character except for Sonic, and the evil FF's only plan to fight Sonic was to literally beg Sonic to save them like pussies
>>146159817Ian doesn't dislike Sonic, he's said Sonic is his favourite after Eggman and maybe Knuckles
Damn what "amazing" characters and stories you lost, archiebros.
>>146159854archie was beyond salvaging. We're better off now it's gone
>>146159862Gone and non-canon, so none of it was ever even part of the real sonic series
>>146159854This series in general is a cancer, archie was just the worst of it
>>146159760>The "whole point of Scourge" is that Sonic's the bestest and the strongest and would beat up everyone in the world if he "le stopped holding back". Sonic himself says this out loud in two concurrent arcsSonic and Jules also say aloud that Scourge is just a cowardly bully and a loser at heart.>That wasn't flirting with Tails, that was making Tails try to vouch for her by saying she still has good inside.She calls him "big man" and says "It would mean so much to me!" which implies she'd look on him more favorably.>Calling Sonic "handsome" and blowing kisses at Sonic is flirtingIt's as fake as the smile on a politician's face. She's given up her entire life in her own home dimension for Scourge.>"It doesn't count because I say it doesn't!"You're the one who's claiming that it's this huge issue with Ian's run. How is it a huge issue if it boils down to Sonic's two canon lovers (Amy and Sally) and MAYBE Fiona? 2-3 potential love interests for a character isn't abnormal.>Stringing along multiple characters all to wank off your self-insert, especially when your self-insert is rude and insulting to one of them, and making the other girl an outright cuck for your self-insert like that date issue, is not normalThe idea is that Amy likes him but he doesn't like her back. That's why he's rude to her; she's a creepy stalker. And how is he "cucking" anyone by dating Amy? He and Sally were broken up at that point.
I don't blame him for all of Evan's issues on IDW, but as her only cowriter her failures also weigh on him for not fixing them
>>146159881>>146159870>>146159862>>146159854>>146159821>>146159775Samefag.
>>146159832Ah whatever. If you think Sonic managing to constantly stand a chance against the Eggman is because Sonic has teenage hormones is better than embodiment of chaos stuff go suit yourself. Don't be surprised when people like it when the protagonists like Sonic and the others and Eggman are treated like big deal strong exceptional. Eggman was wanked a lot in Archie and I don't see anybody complaining about that.The games wank off Sonic and his friends compared to normal civilians. Is having characters be powerful and exceptional wanking?
>>146159775>Tails getting cucked by Fiona was the WORST THING EVER AND SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A WAR CRIME AND TAILS DESERVES VENGEANCEThe only self-inserter here is you, Tailscel.
>>146159898Jules only says Scourge is cowardly after going "IF YOU BEAT ME UP THEN SONIC'S GONNA BEAT YOU UP SO BAD!!!". Another example of pathetic constant sonicwank>She calls him "big man"You call people in bars, roadmen and people you're gonna fight "big man". That's not flirtingCalling someone "handsome" and blowing kisses at them and actually flirting is flirting. As she only did to Sonic, Ian's self-insert, and Edgy Sonic, Ian's AU of his self-insert>How is it a huge issueThe issue is you're trying to credit Ian for it. Penders got rid of the haremshit, all Ian does is bring it up again for Bunnie and Mina and make it worse for Fiona>And how is he "cucking" anyone by dating Amy?I said Amy acts like a dumb cuck the entire date issue where she's simping and being Sonic's handmaid while he dates Sally, not Sally being it
>>146139727>What specific continuity references do people think are bad?
>>146159908downplaying the other characters to make sonic look good is wanking, yes. We all had a problem with it in Forces and Frontiers and Unleashed too
>>146159938>he says, now crying that everyone doesn't praise and worship Ian's dogshit cuck comic for shitting on Tails and wanking SonicSelf-inserter behaviour. Your character getting glazed at every other characters' expense was cringy and pathetic and shit writing, no matter how much you project yourself vicariously onto him. Get a real life, in the real world
>>146159950Well Maekawa still did it several times and it was. Motherfucking awesome yeah. Kiyoko Yoshimura did that too, the two goats of Japanese Sonic writing. Making Sonic be strong and exceptional is not a bad thing it just depends on execution and the story surrounding it.Loom at Saitama he is wanked off and yet his story is a masterpiece or something.
Ah boy, now the Sonicfags are getting mad people didn't like House of CardsArchiefags can't take any criticism without blowing up. They'll worship even the shittiest stories ever
>>146159991If they read DC they'd probably be Bendis fans. Imagine them getting mad everytime if anyone says "Jon should not have been raped, timeskipped and forced to be gay"like that's somehow a bad opinion to have
>>146159862>We're better off now it's goneWhat we're getting now is IDW, and that's straight up slop compared to Universe and Reboot
>>146159997If Ian wrote that archiefags would gobble it up like pigs and say "more please daddy Ian, oink oink oink"
>>146159991>They'll worship even the shittiest stories everLike Hilda?
>>146159991The number of Archiefags willing to defend House of Cards, hell, the first couple years of Ian's run on Archie, is minimal
>>146160033This thread proves otherwise. Ian should be called out for how awful his run was in Preboot
The two goats of Sonic writing Maekawa and Yoshimura made Sonic powerful and wanked him. That make their stories bad of course not. They cooked, end of story. If people are fine with Saitama then they should be fine with a powerful version of Sonic. There should be a semblence of balance and I think Archie Sonic leans a bit far in that direction but his character is heavily flawed, much more so than mainline Sonic. So it makes things more even.Besides Knuckles is Ian's favorite not Sonic.
>>146138501Archie fans have no standards and are terrible people and very low-iq in general.Now he's exposed to a wider audience and can't fall back on his old fanbase
>>146159939>Jules only says Scourge is cowardly after going "IF YOU BEAT ME UP THEN SONIC'S GONNA BEAT YOU UP SO BAD!!!". Another example of pathetic constant sonicwankExcept it was totally appropriate in that situation, because Sonic would genuinely lose his shit if Scourge hurt his dad. And the implication is that Jules is right in his assessment of Scourge being a cowardly bully, and that's why Scourge runs off crying.>You call people in bars, roadmen and people you're gonna fight "big man". That's not flirtingIt's not "flirty" to go "C'mon, big guy, give me another chance, pleeeeeeease?">As she only did to Sonic, Ian's self-insert, and Edgy Sonic, Ian's AU of his self-insertAnd when she did it to Sonic, it was fucking fake, just like when she was trying to manipulate Tails. She's a manipulative bitch, if you look at her deeds and not her words, she only likes Scourge.>Penders got rid of the haremshitMy point was that the haremshit was more a problem in the Bollers/Penders era, not the Ian run.>I said Amy acts like a dumb cuck the entire date issue where she's simping and being Sonic's handmaid while he dates Sally, not Sally being itThe whole point of the Amy character is that she's a Sonic-simp. It's like complaining that Scooby-Doo is a coward.
>>146160064>They cooked, end of storyTake your nigger speak back to twitter where you came from
>>146160049>>146159991Nobody's defending about House of Cards, Tailscel. We're just pointing out how pathetic it is that you're still mindbroken by it years later, to the point of shitting up every other Sonic thread. You gonna send Ian Flynn a few letterbombs next?
>>146160049>Ian should be CALLED OUT for writing a comic that I didn't like one time
>>146160076>Except it was totally appropriate in that situation, because Sonic would genuinely lose his shit if Scourge hurt his dadOh good, so it's not about Scourge being cowardly, it's about wanking Sonic off again like I said. Glad you proved me right>"C'mon, big guy, give me another chance, pleeeeeeease?"No it's not, not even with the emphases you inserted yourself. Calling someone handsome and blowing kisses and actually saying you're attracted to them is flirting, Ian would never let any girl flirt with Tails, only his garystu douchebag self-insert Sonic>My point was that the haremshit was more a problemthen thank you Penders for getting rid of it. So Ian could only humiliate Tails more instead of Antoine>The whole point of the Amy character is that she's a Sonic-simpIs she an Amy simp too?
>>146160113*sally simp lol
>>146160112>people should say that shit writers are shitYes?I agree
Come on Sonic is super flawed in Archie personality wise and stuff. Even the lead writer didn't like him. I think it made the comic way past cool to have these rule of cool awesome stuff happen in the story. Finally living up to the tagline after the comic used to be known as a furry soap opera. Is it wrong to like cool characters doing cool things?
>>146160096Why would anyone send him letterbombs? Allah will give Ian a painful life broken by poverty and his liberal whore wife never giving him kids so he may die alone. When he dies his final thoughts will be "I wasted my life trying to be the sonic guy"
I like how both Ken and Ian didn't use or mention Amy at all in the 20YL, 25YL and 30YL stories.Leaving suicide as the only implied future for Amy
>>146160144the comic was still a furry soap operaless of it with Bunnie but more of it with Fiona
>>146160096Saying Ian's writing is bad isn't shitting up a thread. What shits it up is that you cannot act like a functional adult when someone says Ian's writing was bad, and you go ballistic at anyone who calls it bad.So either you are defending House of Cards and saying Ian's disgusting humiliating cuck comic is good because you love eating that cuck slop. Or you're just an idiot who can't communicate your own thoughts in any rational manner and thus obfuscate that you think Ian's cuck fetish writing was shitty too.
>>146160161It became an action adventure comic with lots of fighting action and more focus on stuff people would actually want from a Sonic comic.>The soap opera is characterized by a permanent cast of actors, a continuing story, emphasis on dialogue instead of action, a slower-than-life pace, and a consistently sentimental or melodramatic treatment.This doesn't sound like Ian's run.
>>146160113>it's not about Scourge being cowardly, it's about wanking Sonic off again like I saidReread "And the implication is that Jules is right in his assessment of Scourge being a cowardly bully, and that's why Scourge runs off crying.">No it's not,It's textbook fake-tugging at his heartstrings. And since she knows he loved her, adding in "It'd mean so much to me" implies that she'll like him better if he helps her. It's manipulative flirty bullshit, just like all her flirtations with Sonic.>then thank you Penders for getting rid of it. So Ian could only humiliate Tails more instead of AntoineThen thank you for admitting that the "haremshit" was over.>Is she a Sally simp too?No, but she and Sally were always good friends. She wants others to be happy and is willing to step aside to let them be in Archie. That's why she only attacked Fiona when she realized she was two-timing Sonic with Scourge.
Personally I hated Ian's entire archie run, just his legion of buttkissers make discussing all the terrible shit in it impossible.
>>146160209I liked his creative direction way better than Penders and Bollers. I don't even think he's much different in proficiency than Bollers, his radically different vision for the comics and writing style just was a way better fit for Sonic.
>>146160049People bitch about parts of Ian's run all the time, Charmy brain damage, Tails vs Sonic and Tails crying to Fionna gets most of it.I felt like it got a good flow going for it after the set up was all done, Enerjak, Bold New Moebius, Iron Dominion, Sonic Universe starting. King Naugus arc was where things started falling apart again, especially once the interferences started happening and the eventual rugpull
>>146160200Scourge runs off because Jules threatened that Sonic will beat him up and Ian thinks everyone should be scared of his cringy gary stu self-insert hedgehog being angwy>It's textbook fake-tugging at his heartstringsbut not flirting, which is expressing existing romantic interest. Which she only does to Sonic/Evil AU Sonic and noone else.>Then thank you for admitting that the "haremshit" was over.Thank you Penders. No thanks to you, Ian>No, but she and Sally were always good friendsNo they weren't, Amy always massively resented Sally before Ian and only Ian made her buddy buddy so Sonic would have two trophy girls instead of one>That's why she only attacked Fiona when she realized she was two-timing Sonic with Scourgelol yeah i remember that. They left Tails to run off crying in a ditch over Fiona while Amy and everyone in town fawns over Sonic's arms and defending Sonic's honor. What a cringy wanked self-insert gary stu fanfic
>>146160128>>146160147>>146160192House of Cards sucked, but you never actually have anything to contribute except thinly-veiled seething over House of Cards. Acting like Ian Flynn raped your mother because of it is retarded.
>>146160192>Saying Ian's writing is bad isn't shitting up a thread. What shits it up is that you cannot act like a functional adult when someone says Ian's writing was bad, and you go ballistic at anyone who calls it bad.THANK YOU!!! Finally someone says it.
>>146160256Its annoying talking to you about this. You don't have to mock the comic like that. You can just say I don't like this and respectfully explain why. I try to do that and I don't flame anybody over not liking Archie. It just clearly isn't for you so stop thinking about this series at all.
>>146160240I'm glad people bring those up as parts they don't like, but like >>146160192 said every time they get brought up archiefags start a big shitfest because someone said it. I just don't have the energy for thatI also thought Enerjak (echidna fellation), Moebius (FF twiddles their thumbs and only the hedgehogs get to do anything) and Iron Dominion (more politicshit and Fionashit and boring Sally stretches) were crap
>>146160260Saying Ian's writing is bad is not shitposting.You being a baby over it is.
>>146160299>You don't have to mock the comic like thatYes he does. If a writer is shit they deserve to be insulted for their awful disgusting horrible comic, adn their simpms should be ostracised for the shit-eaters they are.ESPECIALLY if it is ruining pre-existing characters in an IP. Fuck Tom King, Fuck Bendis, and Fuck Ian Flynn
>>146160316>>146160336You're the one being a fucking baby. You can't comprehend that people have different tastes than you, and all your "criticisms" are seething over one arc.
>>146160260Here's my contribution:Ian's run was garbage and his Fiona fixation made archie one of the worst comics ever made in history.I'd compare it to that Beyond issue where Batman impregnated Barbara while Dick was at college, but at least Bruce died alone for that and Dick beat the shit out of him
>>146160336>adn their simpmsAre you seething so hard that you are missing the keys? That’s really pathetic bro.
>Tailscel ruins another thread with his butthurt samefaggingMust be a day ending in "Y."
>>146138501The hardcore Sonic fanbase is terminally online and autistic. They turn their self-hatred outward to the people who run the franchise they're obsessed with.As someone who just has some happy memories of playing Sonic Advance and the classic trilogy, watching the cartoons, and occasionally making making some non-OC fanart in middle school, I can't fathom how something so pure and fun could spawn something like Chris-Chan.
>>146160382>You can't comprehend that people have different tastes than youI knew you would defend House of Cards, lmaoThat you have a taste for eating hot steaming shit out of the toilet does not mean I won't call it shit. Ian's run is shit, and garbage, and the worst thing I have ever had the dishonor of reading.Tails deserved a better writer than that fat talentless pig Ian and his army of pig readers (YOU).
>>146160400this is a sonic thread, bro, you are not worth even 5 more seconds of time to spellcheck
Ian's Archie run is decent. Filled with action, fun, drama, humor, a variety of different characters and settings. It wasn't necessarily deep but it is a kids comic its allowed to just be stuff like that. Not amazing, but a big lift up from what came prior. It was way more fun for me to read than the Penders Bollers stuff. I loved the characterization of the characters, the setting, the cool factor, and of course how it all felt so big.Most of all, I just loved what it was going for, the premise of the comic itself.
>>146160403You do have the option to just accept that not everyone liked Ian's bad comic.But that's never an option with you Ianfags is it?
>>146154695god he is such a faggot
>>146158313If Boom was so good why did it get relegated to a 6AM time-slot and then cancelled?
>>146138501Sonic fans are tasteless manbabies, especially the ones who self-insert as the main characterOnce he got into the games he was exposed to the wider world, who aren't all tasteless manbabies and some of them just want something simple and good, then he serves them a plate of his shit
>>146160150I think Ian said Amy has adventures through time or something.
>>146160412I'm not defending House of Cards, you fucking retard. You constantly seethe about all of Archie and get mortally offended that someone might like it. I see plenty of garbage media, but I don't feel the need to spam every single Star Wars thread because I didn't like TLJ. The fact that you do makes you a butthurt sperg.>Tails deserved a better writer than that fat talentless pig Ian and his army of pig readers (YOU).Lol, go make a tulpa of him you pathetic simp. And keep the fuck out of the Sonic threads if you're just going to spam the same shit over and over.
>>146160460You have the option not to samefag and spam endless butthurt about "Ian's self-insert Mary Sue." I encourage you to exercise it if you don't want to be told to fuck off.
>>146160481That would be really dumb. Ian really doesn’t understand Amy’s character.
>>146160483Bad writers deserve to be called out. You shouldn't get mad people don't like House of Cards just because you self-insert as SonicI like garbage things too but I don't throw a fit if someone criticises them or rightfully calls them garbage, the way you do. Imagine getting mad because someone called The Room (2009) bad. That's you>Lol, go make a tulpa of him you pathetic simp>Sonic self-inserter literally LOVES comics where Tails is shitted on and IS INFURIATED at the idea that Tails should be treated with respectAs expected. You archie simps are disgusting shit-eaters with no rational taste
>>146160535It's not that, he's just mad because it implies Sonic shouldn't be wanked off 24/7. They only self-insert as Sonic, that's their only standard for "good", Tails treated with respect implies Sonic being wanked off was wrong
>>146160506buh-boohoohoo someone made fun of your self-insert mary sue hedgehog. You only proved me right. You're throwing a tantrum because someone criticised your cringy poorly written cerealbox mascot you project onto
>>146160477Because it filtered people who couldn't handle kino
Archiefags get upset at words on a screen.
>>146160477when has a good show ever had a good timeslot?>>146160467I know. So many instances like that
>>146160595Archiefags prove archie deserves more hate
>>146160619it deserves being forgotten. You don't stomp on a shit on the sidewalk, you get a hose and spray it down the drain
>>146160595they wouldn't survive in any other series on earth, where people are always criticising bad runs if they are bad
>>146156990>Thread about Ian>Spergs out that the topic is focused on IanMeds.
>>146160535>>146160585>>146160595>>146160619>>146160627>I have to samefag in every single Sonic thread because of a decades-old comic that dissed my husbando TailsYou're the one self-inserting as Tails, and your "callouts" of Ian are just barely-literate shit that ought to be scrawled on a serial killer's wall. Nobody's mad that you're criticising Archie, they're mad that you're a thread-derailing fucktard with nothing to add.
I feel like getting mad at anything Sonic related at this point in this is completely pointless and even counter productive. Dissapointment is what I usually expect from anything SEGA and so far I havent been dissapointed that many times.Sure there was a time things were great for the Sonic IP in general but to expect anything like this in the modern times is wisful thinking at best.
>>146160677Saying his writing is bad did not derail the thread. You getting mad people called your sonic self-insert wank fanfic - that humiliates tails amd other character to make sonic look good - bad, derailed it. It is people’s right to criticise awful books. I’m sorry you gobble up dogshit because you self-insert as sonic the hedgehog and love awful stories where tails gor humiliated and shit on so you and ian the two fat pigfucks could live vicariously through sonic, and i’m sorry because that’s fucking cringe man.
I just went on every thread on /co/ and criticised their story, none of them threw a fit. They were all very civil and intelligent actually.But someone here says Ian’s sonic-wanking run is bad, every sonic self-inserter shits their diaper and calls the police and cries like babies and destroys their own thread.
>>146160677
>>146160774Why did you post a picture of (every archienic self-inserter ever)?
Archiefags ruin yet another thread
>>146160734>>146160758>>146160774>>146160779>>146160797More samefagging from the guy that totally didn't derail the thread. I'm sorry that the decades-old comic insulted your pedophilic husbando, Tailscel. Hopefully you find a new underage child to self-insert as.
This series is pure unfiltered autism.
>>146160797Case in point: >>146160830They have no self-awareness
>>146160192>What shits it up is that you cannot act like a functional adult>So either you are defending House of Cards and saying Ian's disgusting humiliating cuck comic is good because you love eating that cuck slop. The duality of anon.
