ITT: Iconic and classic comics that actually suck
>>146419861Could have posted Secret Wars.
>>146419861This is bait but I agree with you. This cover is the only good thing about this comic.
>>146419861It was good when Perez was drawing it.
Byrne was pretty good, but fuck me was it pure tedium.>>146419861I lost all interest when George Perez left.
I did not care for either of them
>>146419861I cant make head nor tail of this smeared shit art.
>>146419861Probably the most overrated X-Men run of all time. Even Whedon's Astonishing wasn't that bad in comparison to it.
>>146419861I thought it was pretty good but the buildup to it in Silver Surfer was better than the actual event
>>146419949I think that Claremont's writing combined with every single person who knows what the X-Men are knowing the story makes the experience really underwhelming
>>146420479>the most overrated X-Men run of all timeThat's Claremont's run.
>>146419861I probably read this one at least 10 years too late to enjoy it.
This peesa shit.
>>146420608Claremont's run is the only good X-men run, idiot. >>146419949Attention span deficiency.
>>146420781does anyone actually like this comic? feels like everyone hates this one because of character assassination
>>146420781>>146420834I love Identity Crisis. It was one of the first things I read from DC, having grown up reading primarily just Marvel.
>It's just a list of Events
>>146419949I have always hated the Dark Phoenix arc and especially hate how literally nearly every X-Men adaptation for some reason eventually feels the need to adapt Dark Phoenix in some way eventually. It's also the only single character trait they bother to give Jean anymore and her entire purpose in adaptations is almost always just to eventually build up to Dark Phoenix.X-Men '97 was refreshing just for being set in a continuity where they already dealt with Dark Phoenix back in the original cartoon so they could just fucking do something, anything else with the character for once. It's also just not that interesting of an arc to be honest.
There's so many overrated Batman ones that only became popular fir being considered edgy at the time. This one's one of the gayest.
>>146421606This one too is trash.
>>146421484Is Spider-Man just the Sonic the Hedgehog of Comics? Constantly getting a bunch of variant OC "do not steal" characters? "The message of Into the Spiderverse is that ANYONE can be Spider-Man!". Dude shut up I can work all my life to the utmost I ain't gonna be swinging around New York,You don't see this type of shit with Batman traveling through multiverses or whatever meeting other Batmans. I'm preparing myself to get proven wrong by some obscure comic somewhere but IT DOESN'T HAPPEN OFTEN OKAY.
>>146421629Let's not forget this one either.
>>146421606>>146421639Whaaaaaaaaat, Batman year one is awesome, the only thing I didn’t like about the long Halloween was that after the mid way point it does drag on a little too long and Harvey’s wife helping with the killings didn’t make too much sense to me, it’s almost like Loeb didn’t even know who the killer actually was at the end. I’m still new to comics though
>>146419861Infinity Gauntlet is the best comic series ever published, in my opinion.
>>146419861I liked the build up more than the actual event.
>>146419861I think it's good, but definitely overrated. Thanos Quest is way more entertaining. Pic related is garbage and I'll never understand what people see in it
>no mention of Civil War yetThe poster child for this thread
>>146422454I'd of rather had a Serpent Society film then the MCU tackle that overdone character assassinating wank
>>146421639That's a great comic.>>146422329I have to agree. Denny is just not a good writer, though I respect his tenure in comics.
>>146422454never read it
>>146422329>Pic related is garbageYeah nah
>>146421635Yes but like the Sans AU cosmology Spiderverse makes it work and integrated into the story it's telling. It is what it is. I think the concept is cringy in conception but it can make it consistent with its own story
>posting every revered comic: the thread
>>146422471>. Denny is just not a good writer,He's one of the few bronze age writers I can stand because he doesn't feel like an insular fanboy who doesn't speak to real people. a lot of 70's and 80's big two books, even when technically good, just feel unreadable to me because the writers are so lost in the sauce of comic universe world building. Roy Thomas is sort of peak for that, which is strange to me because his Conan writing is very tight. but then he does superhero stuff and it just feels tailor made to obsessive nerds.
>>146419861Ah, yes, the zoomies are out of school again, aren't they?
>>146419861What was bad about it? Thought this was real good.
avengers the crossing from the 90's had great art but was boring, ultimates was meh, secret wars 2 was odd, justice league 1-180 was meh, maybe like 5 or 6 comics I remember but not neccessary to read, a lot of old comics are meh, but I appreciate the simpler art in them for reading fast so I tend to like them anyway, I'm more into art and classic stories so i like stuff from the 80's 90's and some newer stuff but only a few writers, like I often regret buying 90's omnibus over 70's and 80's omnibus, i just buy them for the art
>>146421484Neither iconic nor classic. Not even a single cohesive story.
>>146421639Came to the thread to post this.
>>146419880Lmao which one
>>146423116It's bad, anon. O'Neil is a hack.
>>146421635>You don't see this type of shit with Batman traveling through multiverses or whatever meeting other Batmans.Brave and the Bold did this in like the last 5 minutes of an episode, where Owlman has him on the backfoot, so he steals his universe hopping device to grab a small army of other Batmen to beat him up. Then they make a ~10 second cameo in a later episode, but that's about it.
>>146421639batman year one is just: a tinely veiled James gordon year one
>>146424036Both.
>>146421635What about Dark Nights or Archive of Worlds?
>>146419861Waste of good art.
>>146419861Fuck off, Cap has a great line with Thanos that the FAGGOT MOVIE didn't include!!!!!
>>146419861>>146421606>>146421629>>146421639>>146422329What a disgusting idea I have to share this board with all these plebs.
>>146421635Batman doesn't need to leave his home world to find a whole bunch of Batmen.
>>146423997You have a weird understanding of "revered"
>>146424141>O'Neil is a hack.Why?
>>146421635batman has the batfamily but that's far more tasteful
Agreed. Infinity Gauntlet is literally just 150 pages of "Look how cool my OC-I mean Thanos is"
>>146419861
>>146419861Thanos Quest was the real iconic one. Infinity is marred by event slop, but the visuals are god tier an and excellent sendoff to early marvel cosmic.
>>146428350>Stilted and awkward dialogue even by old standards>Shoe horned politics usually of the retarded variety>Stories are usually anticlimactic if they can even build momentumHe's created some decent characters though and his Batman, Spider-Man, and Daredevil are alright, but pic related is another all time stinker.
I fucking hate cerebus
>Guaranteed replies
>>146428736Great cartooning, but ultimately not very interesting.>>146429208Visually, it's terrific, especially later on. You could learn a thing or two if you want to become a creator. But writing-wise, it's a mess.
>>146428386Nothing about the Batfamily is good.
>>146428736Suck isn't the right word, It's okay at best
This made me start reading X-Men and Marvel
>>146429985Peak Jim Lee.
>>146419898Completely agree. Also Adam Warlock is just lame. I hate MCU but infinity war movie is better than the actual source material. Endgame however is garbage
>>146429985Wrong thread?
>>146429837the costumes are pretty good
>>146430728Cass would work as a solo vigilante in an alternate Gotham or another city with her night-gaunt costume. Not in a family.Dick was better as Dickbats. His black and blue costume is neat, but he's not very cool as Nightwing.Jason was good for one crucial reappearance as Red Hood, but Winick fucked it all up.
>>146421629>>146421639I can't believe there are people out there who unironically hate these comics. Do you retards even like comic books?
>>146419949This. But also DoFP is kinda mid, I feel.
>>146420479Morrison is a huge hack.>>146421484I think the reason I fell out of reading my comics for so long was solely this event.
>>146431038It's probably bait.
>>146419861>>146419880bad opinions.>>146421639>>146421606terrible opinions.>>146422329>>146422471if you don't like Denny O'Neil you have dogshit taste
>>146421639Hey, fuck you
>>146420781You can add 99% of all DC Crisis events here
>>146429985>the claw implantsI miss them so much, bros...
>>146432271If you like O'Neil's Question run, YOU have dogshit taste.
>>146422470I know this a comic thread but the Civil War movie is such dogshit. The Avengers are torn apart by infighting in both Avengers movies. The team was never shown to be functional so why do I care that they're at war with each other? It is so retarded but people eat it up.>>146421591Personally, I love the Dark Phoenix saga but the 90s show is the only time it was done right. The arc needs breathing room, Jean needs to be Phoenix for a good period of time. Also pretty much nothing embraces the weird BDSM crap or the aliens.
>>146429196>>146433007Found the Halfag angry at O'Neil because he made his self-insert racist
>>146428386>>146429837I'm not a fan of the "Batfamily" but at least there it is clearly shown that Batman is the head honcho. He's the focus and everyone else is just a sidekick or someone working under him.All these Spider-Man variants just serve to undermine the importance of the original Peter Parker. Miles isn't looking to be part of some "Spiderfamily". No they insist he IS Spider-Man. Editorial wants him to replace Spider-Man the same way Samuel L Jackson Nick Fury replaced the original WWII vet one.If you're doing multi-verse shit then you need a hook for why we should care about your character over all the other clones/variants. Even Rick and Morty threw out some half-assed "HE'S THE RICKEST RICK!" explanation to it's audience to explain why you should care for that Rick over all the others.
Did a lot more harm than good in the long run
>>146419861And somehow the Netflix show managed to suck even harder.
>>146433320>HalfagNope. I'm the second anon.
>>146419880I can agree with that.Mostly everyone in that story was mean o horny or both.It got better in the back half when Doom asserted himself as the protagonist
>>146419861Marvel events have always sucked ass but this is as good as it gets.>>146426639Anon, they are like 4 or more events named like that.
>>146419951Final Crisis amounted to nothing but that was not Grant Morrison fault.Infinite Crisis is whatever but it will be forever vindicated for leading to Sinestro Corps, Legion of 3 Worlds and 52>>146420781How is that Iconic? It was the laughing stock of the comic community back then and it is still shit now.
>>146420781
>>146433320GL/GA is legitimately bad though.
A modern classic (it's shit)
>>146433444The thing with the Batfamily is they started canabalizing each other. Like Tim originally was the techy family member with even Oracle asking him for computer help but as time went on computers became Oracle's thing so Tim became the detective which meant Dick had to be less capable in that field. Also since Jason is the angsty asshole outsider, we saw Dick become an overtly cheerful himbo even though he used to be the asshole who pushed back against Bruce.
>>146434038I really l like Flashpoint as a standalone Barry story but it really sucks as a finale to the post-Crisis era.
>>146429985This era of X-Men was strange. Asian dudes were making entire comics and then John Byrne put words in the bubbles. I'm sure like Kingdom Come it was done all "Marvel method" with a lot of communication and collaboration but some parts of Portacio's UXM would give a scripter nothing to work with. But Jim Lee is one of the top selling artists of all of comics with the top selling single issue ever (X-Men vol. 2 #1.) The first 3 issues of X-Men wers like canon to us because they were easy to get in those packs they'd sell at stores. 4&5 weren't because they were sort of sought after (not super rare but $15 in the mid-90s.)
>>146433460The only good ALIAS is the Jeniffer Garner TV show during the first 3 seasons
>>146433456>Did a lot more harmDoesn't matter. How does it stand on it's own?
>>146433657>Anon, they are like 4 or more events named like that.No, just two. The others are different (Secret War, Secret Wars II, Secret Wars III).
>>146419861This thread is just: I don't like a popular comic that most people like.
>>146424141>>146429196Epitaph for a Hero alone already makes it one of the better runs in cape comics
>>146434735Was Secret War actually an event? I thought it was just a mini.
>>146424011Spider-Verse is "iconic" in that it's basically subsumed Spdier-Man as a brand and he's gone from friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man to Friendly Multiverse Spider-Man #19014.
>>146435079Spider-Verse is probably the poster child for running a well liked concept into the ground. Everyone loves a good spidey Elseworld/What If and crossing them over was novel the first time but now it's just too much. Plus too many of them have spilled over into the main continuity.
>>146429196>>146434028FWIW, Neal Adams basically had final day in the writing.
>>146435000>one of the better runs in cape comicsThat's really fucking sad.
>>146419949>$0.40 USThe average X-Men comic, today is $20 USD
>>146436145>That's really fucking sad.Well yeah, that's cape comics for you
>>146428004The only really good comic is Year One, but most of the others don't belong in this thread.
>>146434038The problem with any of these event comics is that they are barely a story at all, because they are built to hijack a bunch of other series where all the interesting shit happens.
>>146431685The future sequences with the Sentinels is good.The Brotherhood of Evil fight during the present is dogshit.
>>146421639>>146428736No, dude.
>>146435213He shouldn't have. He's an artist.
>>146419861>ctrl+f "Death of Superman">0 resultswell you've all got shit taste>>146419880any of thembut they were always bad
>>146420479Whedon's Astonishing is light years better than Ellis's Astonishingit's not even a bad run, it has some of the problems that are common to all X-Men titles now but they do at least act heroically, have a clearly defined enemy and a plot with stakes
>>146420781>Rags Moraleshypercrisis is real
>>146419861This is pure garbage.
>>146436154the cost of wood pulp more than tripled between 1970 and 1980, which affected paper prices and printing costs heavily; all comic book publishers saw year on year increases in median price until the mid 1980s and (as the pulp prices continued to climb) even after that; the value of a dollar went up by over a dollar (meaning what you could have bought for a dollar in 1970 would cost you $2.12 in 1980)a huge part of that print cost problem is that people were using less paper generally, so less forestry for paper mills happened, and less paper was produced and the cost of paper went up as a result; the average Marvel comic was 35c in 1978 and 50c in 1981; even accounting for inflation, pulp prices - the unprocessed raw material for all paper - were 60% higher in 1980 than they had been a decade earlier, and while things have normalized a little since they're still about 30% higher relative to 1970
>>146433460How?>>146434063That's why you got an animated movie and even the snyderverse tried to adapt it
>>146419861>>146419949Most of the thread is just event comics that sold well because they were pushed as "important" but for the most part they're at best controversial, a lot of people recognized them as bad comics... except for these two. They're regarded as amazing and they're both awful.
>>146420479Pure dogshit.
>>146438085How what? Why out of everything posted here it's this shit you take the issue with?The comic is utter juvenile trash that has nothing to it beyond Bendis trying to be shocking and edgy. (OMG LOOK)The show is a corny Lifetime-tier slop written by idiots for idiots with a very weak and overall pathetic villain who only lasts as long as he does because every single character is a total idiot making the most retarded decisions possible. Somehow the general public got psyopped into thinking this asshole is such a great villain.
>>146438910*(OMG LOOK AT CHARACTERS SWEARING, HAVING SEX, MASTURBATING, SHITTING, TALKING ABOUT RAPING CORPSES. ARE YOU SHOCKED YET READER?)
>>146420479I usually like Morrison, but this sucked.
>>146437484Yes, dude
>>146419861nobody says what's wrong with it
>Wolfman/Perez New Teen Titans>Johns' Teen Titans>The Long Halloween>Dark Victory>The Dark Knight Returns>Hush>most "classic" Batman stories desuAnd I like Morrison's JLA but it's pretty overrated. Like it's good and one of the better JL runs (which isn't saying much since most JL runs are mediocre at best and complete ass at worst) but the stories and characterizations aren't anything special. Kyle and Wally's friendship development is probably the most notable characterization in that run.
Watchnen has just passed the test.
>>146440720to be honest, it is not really what if superheros existed in a real-life storyit is what if superheros existed in a XIX British Empire projected onto America by a communist whose agenda was to demoralize any opposition to the Soviet Union by demonstrating that even a godlike power doesn't allow to uphold truth and justice story
>>146419880>>146424036All of them. Duh.
>>146420479fucking the whole thing up right at the ending like twice over during one run is honestly impressive.
>>146422470Captain America 3 was never REALLY going to be "Captain America: Serpent Society". It had already widely leaked out that it was going to be Civil War, so Feige played a bait and switch game with his audience as he announced the Phase 3 MCU movies, so he could end the presentation with them all hyped up for Civil War.Looking at the Serpents in Cap 4, whether they end up getting cut or not, we'd have been better off if they never tried at all.
>>146441000trips of truth
>>146440720Watchnen maybe, but Watchmen is a god-tier comic. >>146440794Blinded by politics. That's not what it's about.
>>146441117no no this is the only way to set up Phase 5 for that Songbird/Diamondback movie
>>146441636>Songbirdgod no. leave my girl alone
>>146441728No.
>>146441451Watchmen is a good comics, but stop pretending it wasn't making a political statement. It was not subtle about it at all.
>>146433580The movie is genuinely far better then the comic
>>146443396The movie is Eightball: The Movie. The comic is just the Ghost World stories. Also, the movie is Josh character assassination. In the comic, it makes sense they'd see him as the perfect man because he actually gets them and relates to them on a human level. In the movie, he's just Chad and he's there to anger middle aged hug virgins because the women you "deserve" love him. I recommend reading the comic and watching the movie, not judging one based on the other but recognizing and appreciating that both have merit.
>>146437697Death, Funeral, and Reign/Return was a big part of my childhood and I'm not going to knock it. It's not Watchmen but it's good enough not to point at it and go "This is the biggest piece of shit ever!" Besides, the post-Knight Fall comics with AzBats were way shittier than the 4 Supermen.
>>146443249I thought it was exploring political themes, rather than just making one direct political statement.>>146440794>it is what if superheros existed in a XIX British Empire projected onto America by a communist whose agenda was to demoralize any opposition to the Soviet Union by demonstrating that even a godlike power doesn't allow to uphold truth and justice storylike this is an honestly bizarre interpretation that seems to either be someone just trying to come up with an out-there take, or the fruit of genuine political brainrot.
>>146437697>Death of Superman"Legitimately forgot it existed.Yep, it's trash.
>>146444477>it's a bizzare statement if something was bizarre, it was ending presidential term limits (which requires revoking a freaking amendment) and turning Vietnam into a State.Those were not real-life things. Those were not logical consequences of superheroes existing. That was just Moore being either political or a tryhard in making the setting more grim. Maybe he can clear it up in another Guardian piece if he intended to be political Either way, it shouldn't be classified as a what if superheros in real-life.
>>146423397>posting every revered comic: the threadand they are not wrong
>>146434063>but it really sucks as a finale to the post-Crisis eraI heard It wasn't meant to be that. It was conceived as an elseworld story
>>146444660wait, are you the one who wrote that tripe I quoted?At any rate, the 2 plot-points you mentioned are quite odd(I don't actually recall the Vietnam becoming a state part). I think he might have been consciously exaggerating how much an entity like Dr Manhattan might deform American history with those.I do think Watchmen's intended to explore what superheroes might be like if they existed, but I don't think it's slavishly committed to the idea. There's room for some looseness in it.
>>146444660>it shouldn't be classified as a what if superheros in real-life.I agree. It has too many moving parts for that singular summation.
>>146444660>ending presidential term limits (which requires revoking a freaking amendment) Nixon was always associated with that - as a young representative for California's 12th district in 1951 he was a supporter of 22A passing, and five of 26 current Amendments were passed during the course of his political career (within 20 years in fact), one while he was VP to Eisenhower and one while was president himself (26A); this isn't the fastest rate of amendments (10 were passed alongside the constitution itself) but it's as fast as 17A-21A went in the first half of the 20thC; it was just how the houses rolled that centuryNixon also took over from Eisenhower after Eisenhower's heart attack - this was prior to 25A so there was no official succession and Nixon was free to seek two full terms himself later onbut either way the idea that he'd have proposed a repeal of 22A or got that repeal isn't particularly far-fetched; 18A was only on the books for 14 years and was repealed by 21A within 288 days from proposal to ratification - fast, but not as fast as Nixon's own 26A, which was ratified in 100 days, the fastest Amendment on record>VietnamHawaii became a State because the US invaded and occupied it; it was previously a constitutional monarchy, then invaded by US and British troops after US citizens started rioting in the 1870s, then forced to sign a new constitution in the 1880s under threat of violence which disenfranchised Hawaiians, then subjected to an American-backed coup in 1893 and invaded (without resistance, because Hawaii was far from any allies it might have had and well aware the US would simply exterminate it for resisting) by US Marines; the US itself admits (via the Blount Report; Congress agreed via the Morgan Report) that the events of 1893 were an illegal US coup that installed the same people who were at that time on trial for leading the coup as government figuresHawaii was annexed regardless in 1898 and became a state in 1960
>>146446012Oh.
>>146420438The Arkham history is interesting, but the ending sucked.
>>146419861Practically all of them.
>>146446012>1960it was granted statehood over halfway through 1959 though
>>146428004Realizing this made me legit visit this place way less than I used to before 2016
>>146448818It was full of plebs long before that.
>>146421606its only good art. the story is just cut and paste godfather scenes and other movie scenes loeb has been stealing for decades. hes a fucking hack. the story just pauses month to month and continues like nothing happened for 30 days or whatever between holidays. no plot, no drastic changes. just entire year goes by and its like it all took place in afternoon. its really shitty comic for midwits. hush is same trash. all loeb comics are shit.
>>146449923>the story is just cut and paste godfather scenes and other movie scenes loeb has been stealing for decadesAlmost everyone steals shit, including non-hacks.
>>146446012Who would've thought this dumb thread would yield an interesting history little history lesson.Thanks for posting this, it was an interesting read
>>146419861The dark knight returns
>>146434809I would appreciate it more if people atleast explained why they think it's bad.even if I disagree I want to know why. Otherwise it's just bait
>>146451107That one's great.
>>146451127Here are the ones I agree with: >any eventThey never hold up. These commit the crime of diminishing a supermassive, cataclysmic battle between giants into a series of lame physical exchanges, like any other average superhero fight. There's so much strong writing, incredible art, careful planning, and great level of detail required from a clash of this magnitude that never seems to be present. Infinity Gauntlet had decent art until Perez dropped out.>Claremont's Uncanny X-MenThe most acclaimed part of Claremont's tenure on UXM is from Proteus through the Brood Saga. The captivating moments are few and far between, with a good bulk of the run dedicated to very corny characterization and a shitload of contrivances. You have all of these interesting powers that are constantly blitzed by stupid bullshit.>Identity CrisisShitty writing all around. The heavy moments are laughably over-the-top and the murder mystery >>146433836.>Fraction's HawkeyeThe snappy, cringeworthy television dialogue is unbearable. Same goes for several other writers, like Bendis.
>>146427938That hawkeye shit was the most overrated garbage i have ever read
>>146441117suppose, I just love the made up mental image of a mix of the Raid, Resevoir Dogs and Die Hard with Captain America overwhelmed by the Serpent Society with most of them being decently developed but still well done villains perhaps adapting the intial stuff with them and the Madame Viper takeover story arc.
>>146433836one day meltzer thought, "footprints on the brain", thought it was the most awesome idea ever, and constructed the whole story to make it happen whether any if of it made sense or not
