so why does Batman need contingency plans again?
>>146438295To not undermine the dignity of the other heroes.
>>146438295to let them think he needs to try hard
>>146438295So batfags can feel like their boy contributes something to the JL other than money
>>146438262Powerscale obsessed retards should have their hands chopped off, their eyes gouged out, and their tongues cut off so they can never write anything ever.
>>146438262Wait, how did he KO Wonder Woman? She can take a punch from Superman.
>>146439556>superman should die to a normal gun!!!Fuck yourself retard
>>146440246>SOIPERMAN SHOULD JUGGLE PLANETS ON HIS PINKY AND FLY FASTER THAN LIGHT AND TANK AN ATOMIC BOMB AND AND AND ANDNo, you kill yourself.
>>146440535He's done all those things, so yeah, he should.
Reminder that Joker and Batman could easily kill anyone on the planet if they wanted.
>>146440560Cut your tongue off and shove your hands into a garbage disposal so I don't have to suffer your retarded opinions ever again.
Batman (without prep) could hold his own against Reverse Flash for over a minute.
>>146440884DC isn't DBZ. Power levels don't exist in DC. Anyone can be a threat to anyone else.
>>146438262They do though, the literal first page of Superman describes how much more powerful than regular people he is.What you might actually be asking is why it isn't coherent and there's 2 reasons.a)its nearly impossible to do with so much material out thereb)most are retards like >>146439556 who think they're "above" that. And it'll get worse as more people raised by the Internet get to comics.
>>146440979Dragon Ball didn't invent differences in power.literally super hero comics are way older than it.
>>146438262I swore this was a page in ASBAR, would I would understand because it's perfectly scaled to not Batman but the GODDAMN Batman, but I guess it's not
>>146440979Truth
>>146441141>Dragon Ball didn't invent differences in power.No. But it perfected it.
>>146440863Suck my unwashed hairy dick, batfag.
>>146440884I don't understand. How did Batman stab him with batarang if nothing can touch Reverse Flash while he's doing the shimmy?
>>146441499I don't even like Batman that much, you retard. It's you superwankers that won't shut the fuck up about powerlevels bullshit and shit up every discussion because you can't stand it when your guy doesn't win everything in five seconds and crushes solar systems between his asscheks or some inane retarded bullshit like that.
Nothing beats Tom King.
>>146441521you can't read or something?
>>146441521his batarang's are also made out of Slowthefuckdownium which ignored the shimmy
>>146438262Do superheroes really just stand around and quip at each other or monologue? Do they wait for each other to finish?
>>146438262That would have looked real bad for Batman if Diana was actually just a regular woman, trying to run past him to get a weapon. Lol, look at her in the final panel, it looks like she's doing that weird, stiff-limbed writhing people do when they suffer brain injury during a knockout. Batman: She didn't want me in the medical bay. I'm going back to Gotham...can someone tell her I'm sorry about breaking her jaw in 2 places, and the orbital fracture?
>>146441647Etiquette. They wait once it's started, or they try to start and end the fight before the banter begins.
>>146441687Out of character, it would more likeBatman: “Grmmble Thrmmble Hero this City needs when it picks itself up, but not the one it deserves when it falls” *punches her again*
>>146441647You ain't seen nothing yet.
>>146438262It's not really important in a regular stories and the crossovers where is would be important always take a backseat to popularity or the writer's wants.
>>146438262Powerscaling isn't just unrealistic, but also a very uncreative way to write fights.
>>146441498>bigger number wins lolIt just simplified it to the absolute max, power levels are easy to understand, but also boring and unrealistic.
>>146441498>>146443259Ironically Dragon Ball first introduced powerlevels just so they could say “look this lower powerlevel character still beat up the higher one isn’t that cool?”
>>146438262>takes out wonder woman in one hit>takes out cheetah in one hitAt least he's consistent.
>>146438262Because they don't have to. It's that simple. No one gives a shit that Batman punches out super-people so long as its interesting.>>146443279I think Kinnukiman was the first with chojin power ratings.
Ah yes, I see. Not-/dbg/.
>>146438262Powerscaling is for low iq's who can't into fiction and think it's real.
>>146443609OH NO?
>>146443279To be fair, it was never actually true. Goku and Piccolo both increase their power levels whenever they used their signature techniques. It was more so that a single power level reading doesn't tell you everything about an opponent.But as soon as you get past Frieza everyone knows how to sense ki to some extent, so power levels went out the window and the characters no longer have that as an ace in the hole. It kinda comes back in reverse with the Androids and is partially invoked for God Ki.
I think they do to some extent but it is all vagueries and can be tossed aside if it gets in the way of the narrative. It only becomes an issue if it breaks the audience's suspension of disbelief, but even that only becomes an issue if it goes on for several issues or something like that.
>>146440884He went easy on Reverse Flash
>>146440884>>146443738True. In the Batman who Laughs timeline when he stops holding back he murdered Reverse Flash and every villain on earth
>>146443675Yeah it was kino when the Androids reversed it. The heroes had become as reliant on ki sensing as Freeza and his men had on their scouters.
>>146441141>>146443259>S-someone strong defeating someone weaker is unrealistic and makes no sense!Retards.
>>146441521phase iron nigga
>>146443821Why are you replying to >>146441141? I never said the differences are stupid, I said they existed. I agree with you.>>146443259Its always "bigger number wins", they just don't give you the numbers because they already show the win. Its not a DB thing at all. DB just used numbers.>power levels are easy to understandThey are but most people do not get them.> but also boring and unrealisticYou can beat everyone in MMA in a fight can't you?
>>146444676Go back.
>>146438262>gas that makes straight people fall down
>>146438262if the artist was better he could have choreographed it in a way where batman hit ww with a strike to a nerve cluster that might incapacitate her instead of just a punch that she could shrug offit would still be a stretch but at least it would seem more justifiable
>>146438262Batman has been consistently powerscaled to be the most powerful JL member for a while now. I don't see the problem.
>>146441805i hate it when writers do that shitjust shut the fuck up and let the action happen
>>146441647They should have waited around even longer and been more cautious instead of rushing in against the most powerful man in the universe. Maybe he could have exposed a weak point or something during that.
>>146443279That was Z, and that dumb shit led to fights no longer being determined by skill but by who could build up the most power. In dragon ball, it didn't matter how strong you were, you could lose to a technique you didn't understand or defend against, no matter how weak or basic it was. I really hope Dragon Ball gets back to that, maybe with Daima.
>>146446036That was literally never true. Roshi's training was just putting weights on Goku and Krillin so they could out strength and speed their opponents and he didn't teach them a single technique.
>>146441740Damn. Battered and...Bruce'd.
>>146441805I swear to God comics writers are too damn wordy sometimes. All that had time to be said in those 2 panels was "Gotcha!".
>>146446087or just a 3rd frame where he says all that shit while on top of her. and then a 4th panel where they fuck
>>146446056To an extent. Roshi just did that shit to get the kids strong enough to hang with the adult opponents he knew they would be facing. Skill and techniques still ruled the day, not who could hit who with the biggest ki blasts.
>>146441521Basic logic. Reverse Flash is moving back and forth to keep himself out of phase so attacks pass through him. But he isn't falling into the floor and getting sucked to the center of the earth. That means his feet, at the very least, need to be in phase when he is touching the ground to push against it. Otherwise he would take one step and immediately fall forward like he had put his foot in a hole. So his feet, or at least the bottom of them, is the one part of himself that he cannot afford to keep out of phase. That makes it a weak point that Batman can hurt. For the above not to work, Reverse Flash would need to be able to float/fly to keep himself from falling through the ground. Since that isn't one of his powers, he cannot be *completely* out of phase without falling into the center of the earth. Unless, when you are out of phase, gravity ignores you which would be COOL but clearly isn't how his powers work or it would be super obvious with him moon bouncing everywhere.
>>146446131Still not true. You are nostalgic for something that never happened. I'd say the only time that technique and skill kind of mattered was actually the Z section during Goku's fight with Freeza before he went Super Saiyan and tried various things to combat the much stronger Freeza (a character that had no real combat experience and couldn't sense ki) to make up for his shortcomings. So please, point to some fights where techniques and skills ruled the day in OG DB.
>>146446036>That was ZIt was there since the beggining. You see differences in power when Goku beats the bandit in chapter 2 and there's even official power levels for pre-Z characters. What Z did was just giving you numbers to express what you would see anyways. Remove the numbers and the plot is the same.Read the manga instead of parroting tfs takes.
>>146446219>You are nostalgic for something that never happened. this. 99% of "OG db was better" takes are basically this.
>>146446300OG DB is good, but just not for that reason secondaries seem to mention.
>>146446219>So please, point to some fights where techniques and skills ruled the day in OG DB.Roshi vs GokuYamcha vs TienGoku vs Tien. Both fightsGoku vs Piccolo Daimao, Piccolo jr.
>>146446436>https://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/databook/All of these are coherent with the daizenshuu numbers.For Goku vs Ten 1(you saying Tien says everything) and Goku vs Piccolo Daimaoh its literally stated they have the same level, which is the exact thing the youtuber you took this from noticed without someone spouting numbers at them.
>>146446555>All of these are coherent with the daizenshuu numbersI'm not reading that fan fiction.
>>146446589Enjoy being mad at something that didn't happen then.
>>146446596What didn't happen are those made up numbers.
>>146446678So no one won or lost those fights I guess.
>>146446436>Goku vs Tien 2The whole fight is just Goku no selling Tien's techniques and then beating him up lmao
>>146446707Be kind, he didn't read it.
>>146443821I bet you expected Goliath to beat David.
>>146446699>Piccolo Daimao stronger than Kami(fucking lol)>Nappa that weak despite standing his ground against Base Goku.>Raditz 1500 for some dumb reason when Nappa clearly says that he had 1200>Piccolo 3500 even though Gohan was stronger than him with a power level of 2800>ChiChi that high>Krillin from namek with a power level of 75.000 out of fucking nowhere>Nail 4200Nice fan fiction you got here, faggot.
>>146446707>>146446715Goku learned to read his opponents movements without using his eyes, figure out the weaknesses of his techniques and defeated Ten with the taiyoken. That's called using technique and strategy without brute force. But thanks for exposing yourself as retards.
Why does no one complain about all those times Captain America slaps above his pay grade? Seems like only Batman and T'challa get shit.
>>146446960T'challa gets shit for putting cosmic beings in headlocks, it's not the same thing at all
>>146446960Captain America usually only slaps above his pay grade for brief fleeting moments and when he does fight above it, it's because he has caught them on the back foot in some way. Pic related his him telling Thanos to suck his dick before immediately jobbing to a backhand, for example
>>146446960No one reads Cap and complainers are all secondaries
>>146446847The facts those fights were won or lost already proves the "numbers happened".There being inconsistencies in official sources is a different matter altogether, everyone knows everything other than daizenshuu is wrong.>>146446903Anon, if you read that fight instead of skimming through it to prove a point, you'd notice that Ten literally says that speed, literally a mesurable thing, is important; and tries to outdo Goku with it.>>146446960pay grade? are you a power scaler?
>>146447122The point was that technique and strategy matters in the OG Dragon Ball and that's how it was. And about Goku vs Ten 2: nobody said power or speed didn't matter in those fights, they just aren't everything.
>>146438295He doesn't. In the 50s he was fighting David Lynch monsters with batarangsOnly retards think he was ever street level.The best part of Post Crisis was the Alan Grant Breyfogle stuff, not the wannabe SVU shit that followed. To respond to that Morrison thread from the other day
>>146438262So how did he put down J'onn?And also wouldn't punching Diana's jaw just break every bone in his fist?
>>146447226>nobody said power or speed didn't matter in those fightsSaying pre-Z had no power levels or that "numbers didn't happen" IS saying that.>they just aren't everything.The only times where they don't define a fight are when its comical like Krillin vs Bacterian.Otherwise its just lower scale Z.
>>146438262It's not just a matter of powerscale, it's just why the fuck do Batman writers have to be like this? Why do they bring their small dick energy with them into team books and simply MUST have Batman beat the shit out of his friends and teammates all the damn time? This happens too often now, they for some reason need to constantly reassure themselves that their favorite hero can beat up everyone else's favorite hero over and over and over again.
>>146447271If you read the book, he doesn't. Only powerset Batman hasn't really dealt with before.They have a "real recognize real" moment, and Jon lets Batman go.
>>146440979Except you have people who actually have totally invulnerable skin so there is no amount of punching and kicking that is going to mean shit to them. It's not a powerlevel minimum to reach for it, it's just a solid fact of those characters. No batarang made from anything is going to do anything but bounce off Superman or Wonder Woman.
>>146447292Batdad's just trying to keep the fuckin' lights on, but you superpowered kids keep punching holes in the universe.How many trillions of trillions has Flash killed? How about the Guardians? Fuck em. Humans doing peak human shit is what saves the world, not aliens or amazons or atlanteans.
>>146447322So Superman never bleeds?
>>146441805I'm assuming he just slowly floated down over a period of like 3 minutes.
>>146447098plenty people read Cap, it's just he's not gotten the same overbearing omnipresence and bias Batman has since he's DC's top seller while Captain America is popular but not company puts all their faith and focus popular.
>>146447355Marvel has a lot of popular heroes, some are just more popular than others.DC has wrapped their entire brand identity around Superman and Batman (and, occasionally, begrudgingly wonder woman) to the point that none of its other characters in its universe are ever anything more than sidekicks. Green lantern or the Flash may be on the Justice League, but DC will NEVER put them on the same pedestal as its favorite children.
>>146446960Marvel will at least admit that Cap is superpowered. DC still has this odd thing about never ever bending on that and always claiming Bruce is just really skilled and eats lots of vitamins. Also Cap's indestructible shield is the big heavy lifter that lets him survive against guys that should paste him.
>>146447401Only really an issue if you don't concede the Battech angle. Comparing him to Cap when you should be comparing him to Hank Pym
>>146446960Cap and T'Calla are both superpowered and they have gimmicky things that help them survive against super beings.Batman never uses any of the stuff he steals off villains and is supposed to be just a really highly trained normal guy in regular ol tights.If he did have some gimmicks he kept at all times like Nth Metal in his cape, Amazonium knuckles in his gloves, his costume is made from Kryptonian cloth, etc then maybe yeah I can see him slapping down J'onn and Arthur in a plain ol fight.
>>146447396it's a shame since honestly my fave heroes in DC are the ones outside the big 3 like Plastic Man, Red Tornado, Aquaman and Metamorpho for example. Honestly when it comes to Batman, the stuff I like besides the animated content is when it lets these other characters get spotlight.
>>146447278>The only times where they don't define a fight are when its comical like Krillin vs Bacterian.I just listed you a couple of fights where that's not the case.
>>146447292Also Bruce's whole contingencies plan seem to be very lethal and permanent. Why do writers have him making plans to kill heroes, but he never ever kills a villain and stops anyone else from trying to kill a villain?
>>146447426Pym Particles are just built different, Honestly the fact he hasn't got a run where he's just handling the Giant Monster's of Marvel is a shame since would be a bit like Ultraman of the whole science fiction adventure mixed with kaiju movie antics.
>>146447322Spoken like a true MCUfag tourist that has never read a book before
>>146447426It would work better if Batman was using tech in more of his fights. Most Batman comics still want you to believe that the only things Batman brings to a fight are batarangs, smoke bombs, and a grappling hook. He only uses things like powered armor on special occasions, when really there is little reasons not to do that sort of shit all the time. When Bruce busts out impressive tech, its always a one-time only plot device that solves the immediately relevant story problem and then disappears to never be mentioned again, unless it is to become something the villains steal/turns evil in the future.
>>146441548>superman can't be superhuman because... he just can't okay??Cry some more fagbitch, postmodern goblins like you are getting mulched
>>146447355Cap also doesn't spend half his crossover appearances beating up other heroes. There are no writers with a chip on their shoulder that want to constantly remind every reader that Cap can totally kill Thor if he wants to, has killed Thor a couple times in other crossover events. beats up Thor once or twice a year, and might just do it again next month!Batman seems to consistently have this air of >I can totally beat my friends up!and writers tend to have him doing that a lot.
>>146447450Yep. I also think its in Marvel's favor that it has more big name superhero teams that can afford to spread the love around. It has the Avengers, sure, but it also has the X-men and the Fantastic 4 and the Guardians of the Galaxy and a bunch of others. All of which get their time to shine as being a big deal.DC pretty much just has the Justice League, and no one else is ever allowed to be on their level. The Justice League holds the divine mandate that none may challenge, and any other teamup that exists int he world is explicitly lesser than the Justice League. It is suffocating.
comics don't powerscale because the world is not ready to know how hard plastic man shits on everyone else.
Nothing wrong with Bruce having contingencies, the problem is the writes not coming up with good ones.
>>146447489when they start having Batman behave like a superhero the twitter normies cry out because he's not being the dejected vengeful loser just like them.Truest incarnation of the character in media is the 66 show, followed by the Schumacher movies.
>>146447500hell when written well Captain America is all about how much he values his allies, what he thinks their strengths are and how much he respects other heroes. Hell in Gruenwald's run he was even nice and understanding to most of the villains that aren't Hydra adjacent. The worst Batman stuff has him just feel like a resentful asshole to them, Brave and the Bold was good at making him a straight man but also clearly someone who likes and enjoys working with other heroes.
>>146447563twitter normies like you are the only, fucking ONLY ones who consoom and shill faggy manbaby slop like Adam West and Schumacher and muh Batfamily gay orgy. That's because you faggots are low test are get triggered at the slightest hint of seriousness or pathos and think he should be a gay "muh wholesum" fruitcake like yourself because that's trendy
>>146447523shame as though I'm more of a Marvel guy, DC has a great assortment of heroes, villains and character dynamics that get neglected at times. Green Lantern was the last big DC run I read besides Cassandra Cain Batgirl, Secret six and some other stuff years ago. Honestly I'd be good for reccomendations since I've been gradually checking Marvel's 70's/80's stuff which was their golden era. Marvel isn't perfect in how it treats characters considering Bendis's dirty tenure or Jason Aaron but it does feel like hero wise everyone is given some level of equal focus at the very least.
>>146447457Not really. All of those were won by the dude with the higher power level.
>>146447636eat shit gay nigga.Batman's not some pansy who can't get over his past, he's a grown ass man who leads by example and spanks women
>>146447500>Cap also doesn't spend half his crossover appearances beating up other heroes. There are no writers with a chip on their shoulder that want to constantly remind every reader that Cap can totally kill Thor if he wants to, has killed Thor a couple times in other crossover events. beats up Thor once or twice a year, and might just do it again next month!That just sounds like every Spiderman crossover, ever. And Spiderfags slurp that slop up like pigs at the trough
>>146447460>Also Bruce's whole contingencies plan seem to be very lethal and permanentsometimes I wonder how anyone is actually stupid enough to come here and post this shit.So have you just, never read ANY of the stories featuring these contingency plans? Are you just parroting the sayings of some loser marvel secondary seething about Batman on 4chins, without having read any of them at all?The entire Tower of Babel story - which was the first and only story revolving around Bruce's contingency plans - is entirely about how he designed them all to be nonlethal. Every word he writes in that book is "i COULD do A, but that would kill him, so i have instead invented B". He invents a brand new type of Kryptonite specifically because he knew if he uses Green he would kill Clark, and he doesn't want that. Fucking WHAT contingency plans are very lethal and permanent to you? You don't know! Because you never read any of this shit, you're just a retard who doesn't know the first thing he is talking about, parroting the opinions of some obese seething manbaby on the internet who was also just seething in jealousy about Batman stories he never read.
>>146447757I mean it's ether Spider-man crossover over do it or have everyone shit on him, there should be a healthy middle ground.
>>146447864>or have everyone shit on himI wish, fucking noone in crossovers ever shits on Marvel's precious self-insert. The entire universe only exists to suck his dick or get beat up and lectured by him.
>>146440884Go ahead. Set a timer and try reading the second panel in a second. >but RF is talking super fast!Okay but go ahead and read Batman's in the third panel in one second
>>146440884Reverse flash had 2 seconds to react to a melee attack and didn't.This guy would lose a fight to a street thug with a gun or even a knife. Why is he a threat again?
>>146443647>Character is shown to be able to survive a machine gun being fired at him and just says 'that tickles'>Next panel the character is knocked out in one punch>Anon thinks someone who tries to find consistency between these two "does not understand fiction."
>>146438262Powerscaling is the mix of anime power standards and capeshit featmaxing and they don't mix together well.There is a reason almost all capeshit characters are functionally street tier until they enter feating time.You cannot expect to hold together any semblance of a story or world if a character is both ftl and always treated as such and it gets worse as the number of characters and feat types increase.
>>146449872>You cannot expect to hold together any semblance of a story or world if a character is both ftl and always treated as suchSure you can, they just are an insurmountable threat to anything that is not a hard counter to them. Someone who can stop time, for example. Or a psychic who can prevent them from realizing they are in danger even as the knife goes for their throat. Any character who has an incredibly broken power, but only normal human resilience, is a puzzle to be solved. It is up to the writer to make that puzzle interesting, and the solution clever.
>>146438262Because it's retarded and takes away growth and just makes things boring.
>>146450136You can't do that because stopping time requires the action to stop it and remember when flash beat a teleporter? Character becomes god in any aspect you never lose because the character is control of all that aspect.
>>146448563Cuz he healed really fast
>>146450136Are you retarded?>Any character who has an incredibly broken power, but only normal human resilience, is a puzzle to be solved.You've already cut power standards from this situation.
>>146448593Weak points, anon. Everyone has them.Yours was feeling called out and responding while low iq.
>>146447722>Roshi vs GokuGoku was stronger and he lost>Yamcha vs TenTen won using technique, not just brute force.>Goku vs Ten. Both fightsGoku was stronger and he lost. Goku won the second fight with strategy>Goku vs Piccolo. Both fightsThey were mostly equals. Either of them could win at any time.
