>>147118010
For one thing Scourge despite deliberately being a loser could actually be a threat to characters like Sonic, Shadow and the rest of the cast while Surge got jobbed by a bucket and some lose screws. Surge does have a more distinct design but Scourge being a recolor kind of adds to how ultimately he still can't escape being a worse version of Sonic deep down no matter how much he tries to make himself distinct. Also no offense but how did you misspell his name as Scourage? that's not even a word.

>>147118010
Scourge is meta commentary on Sonic copies. Surge is just another waifubait character to draw attention

>>147118201
>misspell his name as Scourage?
Cause I'm a retarded failure

But to the points you made yeah scourge really maybe recolored sonic but it kind of fit his vibe of being a strong loser. He basically is still talented because he's sonic but he's such a loser after you peel back his initial feats and it made him a fun villain to see then be defeated.

Surge really failed because she was never truly allowed to be evil or intimidating and now she's already basically good. Not even full on anti hero as it's implied she wants to be loved and adored. unlike someone like shadow who just does what he thinks is best not caring about being loved. She also is a jobber and a massive crybaby we could count the number of panels she cried in her runs or was scared. For a main rival of sonic her being so bitched down by clutch and scared of sonic is pathetic. Makes her feel like just a fake tough girl who's secretly scared of everything which is interesting character but poor villain.
>>147118317
This too fact surge is getting so much love on twitter feels like bs. Just because people must defend females like the lanolin defenders, and because female mobian so ooooooooooouuuuuuuhhhhhhh. Also if surge was a male people would hate him call him the lamest sonic rival.

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>>147118010
Surge is cuter and more bullyable

>>147118317
This. Scourge is Anti-Sonic in chronology but is basically a a separate character in writing. And "Incredibly written by Ian Flynn" for Surge lmao

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>>147118010
>can't spell
>OP image looks like it was written by a 12 year old
>very blatant stealth IDW vs Archie thread
Get the fuck out

>>147118665
Don't be so hard on yourself, Scourage sounds like a good 80's cartoon villain. Also yeah Surge just feels to inconsistent and unclear on what they want her to be or do to feel like a proper villain, anti-hero or wether she's a sympathetic villain or a rival especially when they have her not just curbstomp a schmuck like Clutch. Honestly Mimic has done a better job at being a standout villain and with a more interesting design/personality. Still a shame just as Scourge in Archie was gonna have more to do after his zone prison break that he got exiled from continuity since would've been fun to see him either become a bigger threats or for his personality flaws bite him big time.

>>147118692
True sad the jobber/bulliable/sub surge memes were just that memes. I remember as I was the guy that started some of them. An then they became real and I was lowkey heart broken as surge had such a insane fall off. Like the artist that made the piece you posted was part of the last surge thread because she was so popular she was having weekly threads with new art and greens. By the end of her run she was dead in the water.

>>147118783
Well easy way to get hundred or so replies suppose for OP, wonder if same talking points, resident schizo with his babbling buzzwords/same images to "accentuate" his asylum wall smears or shockingly if anything actually fun to talk about happens in thread.

>>147118758
Indeed also yeah is it just me or should that be "Incredibly well written" firstly but also literally what is even surge's arc???

>Mind broke slave for starline, made to be evil and kill sonic
>Breaks free still wants to kill sonic and says how sonic isn't a real hero
>Proceeds to decide to be a hero to prove sonic and starline wrong
>Immediately flip flops to I will kill everyone because the world didn't want me
>Then jobs in a fight verse sonic who tries to help her and explains his ideology
>Says she'll kill eggman, two mins later spares eggman the thing she chastised sonic for
>Gets power boost but goes crazy and gets bullied by ghost of starline
>Attacks innocence in a town gets scared by whisper shivers in terror behind a mailbox until she realizes she has hacks specifically for whisper a character with no powers
>Jumps a broken leg sonic still gets speed blitzed and trips on screws and gets bucket'd
>Saved by kit after tails beats her, cries in corner like pussy about how shit her life is even though no one is actively pursuing her before she crashes out

>Acts tough and tries to kill eggman
>Eggman and metal fight her acts tough and talks shit gets messed up by eggman who's just a guy
>Sonic shows up surge instantly pisses her pants and runs away and literally sobs in the fetal position in a dark corner
>Proceeds to stop crying on a dime, and tries to act tough and cool again as if she didn't just cry and run
>Fights sonic and metal with a massive power boost, sonic is trying to calm her down and talk her down
>Crashes out almost kills them both

>Comes back gets bullied by a nobody oc with no powers
>Tries to mess with sonic about destroying thing he loves, tells her he'd beat the living shit out of her if she did literally sweats in fear like a pussy
>Suddenly wants to be a hero
>Clutch shuts her down once
>Cries and mind breaks for a whole chapter
>Makes kit do the plan and does basically nothing
>Fights clutch and struggles
>redeemed?

>>147118783
It's even worse, the image is actually from twitter. I'm a fool anon I have failed you all

>very blatant stealth IDW vs Archie thread
Nah just two characters I like, or with surge want to like. I'm still giving IDW a shot and know archie wasn't perfect either.

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>>147118010
Agreed, OP.

Scourge is a pathetic loser who is intentionally written as such. He's a whiny punk-ass bully, but he has incredible super-speed and can throw down if he has to. It's kinda like the Reverse-Flash, who is a pathetic Facebook stalker in his daily life, but has such incredible Speed Force powers that he can really fuck shit up and ruin people's lives when he feels like it.

Surge, on the other hand, is unintentionally pathetic. The writers want her to be this cocky punk villainess with a tragic backstory, but it never works because she only ever wins against Whisper and Metal Sonic and jobs like a moron whenever she actually fights Sonic. It's also painfully obvious that she's meant to be sympathetic and redeemable, what with all the scenes of her wanting to be a hero and crying privately about her trauma.

Frankly, I think Jet the Hawk is a better green rival for Sonic than Surge is. He's genuinely an arrogant thieving asshole, even if he's not really out to kill anybody.

>>147118864
Thanks but really idk how I fucked that up lol.

An yeah with surge she fails as she's like a "jack of all trades, master of none". She basically flip flops between punk badass arrogant bully girl (which most artist and writers focus on in art, though it is ironically her least common trait) She then goes to crying victim and please why is everyone mean to me. Now she wants to be a hero and loved and nice to kids but then is doing crazy dangerous stuff like attacking sonic just to get clutch also doing the big reveal which led to the self destruct thing.

Oh yeah power scaling of surge is depressing, she never truly beat sonic. The one time he seriously fought her he dog walked her and only got hit once. Then she gets bullied by clutch and while sonic can dodge his attacks and bullets. Surge is getting hit by them implying she's slower than sonic by a wide margin, and needed to be saved by him also note she was fighting clutch with kit. Implying her and kit are struggling with a guy sonic was beating up and a guy with "NO POWERS!!!". In trying to make clutch look cool they made surge look worse.

I was sad nothing came of the zone prison break, besides prison bitch scourge memes and jokes. Guess it just wasn't in the cards for him to get another arc.

>>147118981
Jet also gets points for being a bird, any character who isn't a mammal, rodent or marsupial gets automatic thumbs up points from me

>>147119030
Funny enough that last point reminds me of some neat Joeadok art where he essentially did what if Scourge had Secret Rings or Black Knight with him and his world.

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>>147118981
Scourge being intimidating at first then being revealed to be just a brat sonic was a good villain break down. Like his bs joker stuff of "one bad day and you'll be me" and sonic correcting him like "dude you're just a bitch". I kind of loved it as usually that one bad day is treated genuinely but in this it's reversed to all it takes is a bit of human decency and you'd be me. nice flip and show of how scourge is just a loser once his bravado and powers are broken down. But he was allowed to be a true villain as well

It's 100% unintentional and sadly worked on some since I see tons of surge simps. Like people acting like her super "over charge" move was cool when it knocked her out and didn't beat anyone but a normie like clutch. She really is trying to do it all also her being redeemed is so weird as she's barely been in more than maybe 14 issues and she's already good basically.

An yeah 100% I loved jet in this new arc as he basically is what a fun rival should be. Like showing off he's not a hero but not complete trash either but not like sonic. Like when they are racing to save people and helping others but jet ask for money or praise basically a bit of the ego of archie sonic in my opinion. But then when the place is falling apart jet says "Naw I ain't gonna die over it I've done enough", but sonic wants to do more. Shows off both of their unique versions of heroism and differences. Honestly re write this rider arc to be about Jet and it's instantly better. As surge's parts were a drag.

>>147118010
Surge is more interesting because Evil Sonic is kind of fucking retarded. They're both based on Ashura the HEdgehog, a visual glitch so it makes sense there'd be some similarity

>>147118010
I hate Shadow and Silver, so no one can ever convince me that Scourge is a good character.
Metal is the only well made "evil sonic".

>>147119060
Do you have the comic anon???

>>147119192
Metal was but they don't do anything with Metal anymore kind of hope sonic 4 will do something cool with the concept.

But really metal peaked years ago, and hasn't been given any good focus in a while

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>>147119194
Oh it wasn't a full comic, just some fanart by the best Sonic fan artists named Joeadok, essentially Anti-Sharah is at fault for the curse that is at risk of killing Scourge in this and Scourge is probably just trying to take over Anti-Avalon in this version.

>>147119128
>Like his bs joker stuff of "one bad day and you'll be me" and sonic correcting him like "dude you're just a bitch". I kind of loved it as usually that one bad day is treated genuinely but in this it's reversed to all it takes is a bit of human decency and you'd be me
Yeah, that was great. He's not just a petty bully and a coward, but his edgelord ideals are completely torn down and exposed as the hogwash they are.

>But he was allowed to be a true villain as well
That's the most crucial part. Surge never gets the chance to beat the shit out of Sonic's friends, or conquer anything, or be a big bad final boss. Even when she has the Dynamo Cage she eventually just blows a fuse right as she's about to fry Sonic. I know powerlevel-faggotry can go way too far, but villains need to at least have some level of menace.

>I see tons of surge simps.
IDW fans are the most uncritical boobs on the planet. I really think they must just be 14 year-olds who are fooled by the great art, because there's no other explanation for why they love it so much.

>But then when the place is falling apart jet says "Naw I ain't gonna die over it I've done enough", but sonic wants to do more. Shows off both of their unique versions of heroism and differences. Honestly re write this rider arc to be about Jet and it's instantly better.
That's a great point, I hadn't thought of that. A whole arc contrasting Jet and Sonic would be great, but instead we have to focus on the stupid crying OCs. IDW wastes another cool concept, as usual.

>>147118010
I like Surge because for some reason artists give her a huge ass.

I liked Hedgehog Havoc more than any story featuring Surge so Scourge wins

Scourge despite having pathetic qualities, is still cool imo. Looks cool and does cool things
People say design wise isn't good but Idk if i can agree. Yeah he has a basic reverse colors but he's reverse sonic. His attire is COOL AS HELL and I wont hear otherwise. Evil Sonic would be a punk and looking at Scourge fits well. Spaz honestly cooked with his new look with it having a sort of timeless quality. Just my thoughts on Scourge.
>>147119271
I love his stuff so much.

>>147119367
Joeadok is a real one cause he also likes Mordred Hood like I do. Also yeah there's probably small tweaks to make Scourge more unique like quill length or more black in his quills but as you say his design does work since Flash's most iconic villain just is him but more nasty looking with the opposite colour scheme so it works for Scourge, plus unlike Surge he gets a super slick Super Form with the purple and the black n red eyes.

>>147119410
His form is an inversion of his color like Sonic's which is nice. Those scary eyes are just a result of his chaos emeralds when you think about it. But yes, Joe is a real one, and you're lucky your favorite is also his.

>>147119438
Aye shame we never got a moment of Super Sonic vs Super Scourge. Though I'm also now thinking that Scourge's version of Sonic Frontier's would be pretty fun. Also yeah is pretty neat, love how expressive he makes him in art plus balances pics that flesh him out/add backstory to him with goofy antics or just looking like a smug snek.

>>147118010

It's Scourage the Cowardly Hog!

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>>147119271
Idk why but scourge as the knight and dealing with the little genie girl is kino. Oh everyone is anti as well just thought it was scourge in the place of the games.
>>147119294
Really was fun to see as I said most have the moment of the hero like wow he's right. But instead sonic calls him out on that just being a excuse he needs to make himself feel better for being a dick. A nice reverse on the usual concept where the hero acts like it's valid

No no, I get it like people were mad at the powerlevel faggotry in early surge threads. But really can't make me feel intimidating when she basically can only beat the equivalent of a normie with a gun when she has her direct counter i.e the cage being able to absorb whisper's wisp. Then she jobbed to metal in base then kit came in and she won via jumping. Then metal was back up only 2 issues later and then was doing well against her with the cage. She really got the cage just to be where honestly base surge should always be at. Now she's so weak her doing a little lightning blast tires her out and the blast doesn't work on the eggbot and only stuns sonic for a few secs then he runs off and saves the day implying it did no long lasting damage. Like surge is a example of why you need a bit of powerlevel discussion as her being called a sonic "rival/clone" is disrespectful to sonic honestly. She's so freaking weak and has more negative feats than true feats. Like being hit by clutches bullets and struggling to catch him while sonic instantly grabbed him. It really also fact her biggest crash out was electrocuting sonic and attacking a city block.

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>>147119294
True like lanolin simps, I get she "has potential" but she is the worst of the ocs besides for clutch. She's literally the definition of a plant, she is only in the series because of ABT being head artist. Also fact he forced her in like every other restorationationist issue in the bg he even once did a zoom in shot of her for no reason to focus on her design.

Yep really idk what the obsession with the crying ocs is, or the diamond cutters like I care so little. I only like whisper and she was ruined because of tangle being to nice they are ok together but whenever they are together it's obvious they are just gfs but it makes them feel a bit like ruby and sapphire not true characters together. An yeah really also reminds me of how notice that apparently no female oc is evil lol.

>>147119471
Does that pretty much with everything he touches. mordred was fun in his brief time and i can see the lasting impression he got.

>>147119505
Aye I'm more a fan of Preboot Mordred where though he was a cunning non action villain, he was also a more aggresive and slimy bastard who's smugness would crumble into rage as soon as he lost the advantage. I think they made him to cowardly in the reboot but he's still fun in his pragmatism, scheming and his motives while being the one Egg Boss who's constantly in over his head, I just like the more serious and competent version from Chaotix Quest myself.

>>147118010
Scourge is actually a more realistic villain who has an oddly more reasonable backstory and existential fears.
Surge is just a trainwreck of edgy mellow drama that Scourge was fortunate enough to avoid away from, as well for his Fionna Fox waifu.

Ian Flynn’s plan to make Scourge lose Fionna and join in with Edgy Silver as. Edgy Shadow was really really stupid, and it misses the point of Scourge trying have friends that Sonic never had to avoid being another Sonic.

>>147118010
Even if she is a shitty character, everything in the image is true.

>>147119490
The fact Clutch was more confident dealing with super powered foes than Surge ever was should be a massive red flag for her character.

>>147119490
Yeah having it be Sharah cursing him so he has to reluctantly help would add an interesting twist to the dynamic, I could see it being a case where Erazor is instead Repairer Djinn who's trying to fix the world but can only sloppily merge or fuse elements of the world to keep it alive so Dinosaur Jungle and Skeleton Dome is instead like a Fossil Fortress or Pirate Storm and Night Palace is Pirate Palace and so on. Also yeah Surge just feels like much of the problem with IDW not really being good at making characters feel strong or powerful except in bursts or specific moments which harbors a lot of inconsistency.

>>147119556
No. It proves the point that a weak and feeble concept can be far more fruitful than the concept that seems far better than it.

>>147119532
They went with more cowardly because LOL SNAKES ARE JUST COWARDS thing. I noticed that change when reading and can say I do like his preboot self more. Kinda sucks we didn't see Rob fight him because of that penders drama. Sad to see. Just funny how a section of mobius is just old timey robin hood based stuff.

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>>147119559
True also so sad as again, Clutch was so fucking lame to me. They tried to force him to be intimidating and cool all those panels of him raging and saying he'll take care of the heroes made me kek. His whole arc made no sense, he showed his face to amy's protege/friend all it would take is this for him to fail
>Amy: How's being the leader going jewels
>Jewel: Oh hey, amy just got out of a meeting with the President of clean sweep, think his name is Clutch
>Amy: WHAT!!!
>Heroes go and beat the shit out of clutch

They had to make everything work perfectly for his plan to work, and worse they made surge look more pathetic like that sweating panel.
>>147119570
Hmmm does sound interesting, idk why just like concept of more villainous mc and poor girl having to deal with him. But this also fun seeing her be evil as well. Heh some good reverse is pretty fun concept indeed

Yep, also the fact they seem to not like the game characters. Like eggperial city where they kept trying to push the diamond cutters but the best part was getting to see the game characters hang out. Every time they cut away from the game characters to show tangle crying about hurting whispers feeling then lanolin depressed about being a bad leader I rolled my eyes like jesus christ get back to the good parts. Eggperial wasn't even peak or anything but god I forgot how rare it is to see more than maybe 3 of the main game character together for longer than maybe 1 to 2 issues. so getting to see them all hang out and interact and bounce off each other made me realize how little IDW focuses on them some times.

>>147119584
yeah a shame as I like snakes a lot, I don't even mind when there's evil ones since villains are really fun characters but agreed, like in Preboot he was still fucked over but it fit since he was dealing with like 8 heroes at once, he still got cool moments like dodging the arrow even if it exploded after and him being willing to be hands on despite not being a physical fighter was more impressive. Also yeah him never getting to face Rob was a giant shame since the banter would've been fun and even could've teased Mordred perhaps targeting Amy as an attempt to get at him through her that also goes wrong for him. Even if I like Hood miles more then Amy, she would cause big problems for the cobruh. I do like how the reboot makes where he dwells Avalon which also draws in Black Knight stuff which adds to there just being section of mobius dedicated to good ol english legends in modern day, actually I'm thinking Antoine would've made a good foe for Mordred also considering the shared homeland plus showcasing the frenchman's growth when up against a guy he would've scarpered from in his youth.

>>147118010
Who cares, they're both awful for different reasons.

>>147119943
What reasons would that be? It's easy to say a thing is just awful without backing up your viewpoint

>>147119956
Scourge is just "bad Sonic" and has nothing original to his name.

Surge meanwhile is nothing but wasted potential who despite all her build up has accomplished nothing, is a perpetual loser and is only kept alive because IDW mistakes her crackshipping popularity with actual success.

>>147119975
Thank you for elaborating, I like when people do that. I mostly agree even if I like the writing for Scourge, he isn't remotely original.

>>147118908
>Crashes out almost kills them both
You are being very generous, everyone left walking except her.

>>147118010
Did you guys paid Penders to post Scourge images in the thread?

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>>147118010
Scourge is cool because he's 90s, like Sonic. Surge sucks outside of porn, because she's Bille Eilish, which has no fucking place in Sonic.

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>>147118981
jobbers and fakers deserve to suffer.

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>sonic: "so... surge, have you given up yet?"
>Surge: "grr... fu-fuck you!"
>sonic: "good, it wouldn't be fun if you gave up so soon"

>>147118010
Scourge is cool because he's just an irredeemable asshole and he'll stay as asshole, no friendship bullshit.

>>147118010
Ok but what if Surge got scourges wins? Also is there any fanart of her wearing his getup?

>>147118010
>sharp teeth
>pleasant color scheme that matches her blue electric powers in a cool way while making a "super" form a no brainer
>punk motif matches her powers
>electric powers that replicate Sonic's speed while being distinct in their own way
>Tenrec because fake hedgehog
>a fucking loser because she's a shitty bootleg
>based on a glitch alongside with her Tails and Eggman counterparts
Surge was the one time I gave a damn about the Sonic comics.

>>147118010
>Surge
>Incredibly well written
She lost a fight to a fucking bucket. During an arc that was named "Overpowered".

>>147118010
>respected writer
Lol.
They both suck in different ways. Scourge is an edgelord from that era while Surge is a Steven Universe character wannabe, both bad decisions for Sonic. I agree Surge is less cringe and if given to competent writers could be fixed, but it doesn’t make her good.
The wording also makes it clear this person is a Flynn fan and Penders hater, so they have a clear bias and shouldn’t make comparisons. I doubt they even read a comic with Scourge in it, they just saw pics on Twitter that their social media circle shared and made an opinion based on that

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>>147120098
True that's another massive flaw of surge, her best moves leave her unable to fight or unconscious. The other still being able to move or alive meaning she can't claim the victory. Like her "super cool" over charge move it literally only damages a normal mobian i.e clutch but we are supposed to act like it's so great. But surge has to retreat because she can't fight anymore or move really as she's being carried by kit.

>>147120128
metal sonic deserves better, his life is an existential nightmare.

>>147121262
Aren't both Surge and Scourge Flynn's creations? I'm pretty sure Penders just made Evil Sonic.

I really want Surge in the games c'mon!
I'm just tired of Sonic and his cock suckers.
It's been since SONIC BOOM since we had any new character added to the playable ones.

We have all the comics characters but noooo Sega just gave us KOROCKS and Loli 2B. Fuck Sega Japan FR.

>>147120846
I agree but what they did with her outways the peak design. She really was beloved even here on /co/ for about a whole year until her first official arc ended. I remember seeing it in real time and it was heart breaking

>initial leak of design-everyone discussed it and started simping
>Her first cameo in the forest fire scene-people thought she'd fight amy because girl v girl
>Imposter syndrome starts- surge literally gets her own personal schizo and tons of debates about if she'll be good or not
>Imposter syndrome conclusion-people still love surge and can't wait to see what's next for her

>Start of overpowered arc-people are literally getting hyped for surge v sonic fight
>Surge vs sonic chapter- still most talked about chapter to date from sonic's holier than thou speech to sonic having a actual fairly equal fight even if surge is losing.
>Surge comes back- still has some hype assuming she'll use the cage to beat the crap out of sonic this time
>The bucket chapter- it was all downhill from here, surge stocks were at a all time low from here on out.
>Surge vs eggman-memed to hell, and the foot on ass scene and then her running and crying too
>Surge schizoing out and almost dying chapter- memed and around the time the surge hyped fully died down from weekly threads to nothing for months at a time.

Surge sparked so much interest in idw, I started idw because I was hyped for a new sonic villain and she has been nothing but a disappointment.

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>>147118010
It's not even a contest.

>>147121926

Yes

>>147118010
I think both are fine, but I do like Scourge's character a bit more, the dilemma that this is "Sonic but he's evil" is an interesting conflict, he represents Sonic's potential in all the worst ways possible that goes beyond superficial contrasts from every single other rival and I think overcoming something like that in this series specifically is pretty cool, Surge is just kinda annoying at best, she doesn't come off as a threat like Scourge to me, but I do still like her, I think I'd like her more if there wasn't that dilemma of "I can be sonic better than you can" & flipflops between good & bad
>>147121926
>Aren't both Surge and Scourge Flynn's creations? I'm pretty sure Penders just made Evil Sonic.
There was some sort of technicality that made it so that Penders owns Scourge specifically BECAUSE he made evil Sonic, I'm not sure of the specifics but I do remember for sure he rebranded him to be a "speed devil" or something, it's very retarded but that's how things end up I guess
>>147121960
>Loli 2B
Thank you sega, I love you sega, give me more loli sonic characters sega

>>147118010
I don't remember diddly shit on Scourge but I'll take Surge any day and add what I want to her.

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>>147122042
Someone is venting their sexual frustration on this panel.

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>>147122225

Scourge is a parody of the overly edgy "X the Hedgehog" Sonic recolors that was everywhere in the late 2000s.
Surge is an actual character, also she's hot as fuck.

>>147122225
What the fuck is her problem?
She should just go to the "created as a clone of Sonic the Hedgehog to become the ultimate being" support club if that's the one thing she's hung up about. There's probably an entire town full of them by this point.

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>>147118010
Sonic as a franchise is carried almost entirely by just how good Sonic's design is. Surge's design is genuinely fantastic, regardless of writing. In a series propped up by character design, the better the design, the further you go, simple as.

>>147118010
Surge will never be popular. In fact she's the proof that the Dead Internet Theory is real, she feels like an AI shitpost taken too seriously.

Scourge was shit. Surge is just okay, but still miles better.

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>Surge
>created to kill sonic
>becomes a schizophrenic vagabond with BPD who ricochets between craving praise and needing to burn the world down
>Breezie
>created to kill sonic
>moves on, recognizes that true power is tied to resources, and becomes a media tycoon who maneuvered her way into being worth half the planet

The answer is clear

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Surge is made for breaking and being broken.

>>147122468
Based actually

>>147122116
Surge has better porn tho

So she won by default

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>>147122468
True

>>147122648
Add in all her crying

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I could never get far enough into Archie to get to the part where he became "Scourge" (he was still just another Sonic withna buker jacket and shades), but Surge is a character who I associate with extreme regret and wasted potential. Solid motif and design, even an okay backstory.
But her active role in the comic is so disappointing. You'd think she'd be a serious rival and threat, even if Sonic will ultimately thwart her (I get it, he's the hero). But instead she goes from hyped up to just feeling like the writer's humiliation and degradation fetish, given a pair of legs.
First she see seems to a renegade with her own agency, outwardly expressing that she only sees Starline as a tool who will outlive his use. Then a handful of chapters later and she apparently had some sort of abusive father figure tulpa of Starline embedded into her psyche through brainwashing.
She's introduced as Starline's ultimate anti-Sonic weapon. But then she needs help to even avoid getting her ass beat by Eggman's old anti-Sonic weapon.
She seems like she's a contender for one of the strongest active players in the story at first but then they need to give her a temporary pseudo-super power up to even get close to givung her a leg up on an injured Sonic. One that disappears forever once she fails to seal the deal, too.
And just like that, we're apparently done actually using her as an antagonist. Now our spunky punching bag wants to be a goodguy. And the first thing they do with her "hero" role is have her get completely humiliated by ANOTHER male OC villain, as if the Starline tulpa wasn't enough. It keeps coming back to her being torn down and made to seem smaller and smaller. But it's not even satisfying to get watch because if you look at her actual character history, she was never in a high place to begin with.
I see that green bitch now and just feel second hand embarrassment. I'm not sure if it's more for the character herself or the people writing her.

>>147118010
>Sonic recolor
>Ken Penders’ shitty OC
>Incredibly written character by Ian Flynn
>Rapist
This reads like someone whose only knowledge of Archie Sonic came from no context panels being shared around and a game of internet telephone by people who didn’t read it either. And seeing how young the original OP is, I wouldn’t be surprised. There’s a subset of Ian Flynn fans who don’t even know about his contributions to Archie, they think it was all written and drawn by Penders

>>147122753
That's the face she makes when I stick it in her pooper

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>Aura merchant

>>147119490
>She really got the cage just to be where honestly base surge should always be at.
This is how I feel too.
But not only was it a power-up, unlike super forms it was written to stop existing after it's initial use. I don't get what they were thinking.

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>>147122661
I found the pic in the archive so I don't have the original, but I added two more faces.
I don't care for her crying faces so I didn't add any.

Surge feels like the teardown and redemption of a character who barely had history as a villain in the first place. So I don't really understand the point.

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Okay but counterpoint, Surge with her hair down is really pretty

>>147123149
>Screen Shot 2025-01-14 at 12.32.04 PM.png
Is that eastern standard time?

>>147121598
Well he is getting a full movie by 2027

>>147123193
Yep, that's now (well, 10 minutes ago) on EST.

>>147122116
>>147118010
>they have no similarities
Do these motherfuckers really think Flynn made a green punk rival to Sonic with similar sounding name to the last one by pure accident? She is totally meant to be aping off him, even if she’s different. And they both suck.

>>147122363
I like the idea of Surge but I feel like this is objectively true for this character. Like 90% of the people who talk about "liking" the character just have a humiliation kink. And it's hard for me to believe that many people with that kink would go out of their way to dogpile on some niche spin-off character with low visibility.

>>147123257

They're both based off the same Sonic 2 glitch.

>>147123278
Oh, the one that gave Sonic shark teeth?

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>>147123291

No, green fur and a black forehead.

>>147123257
>Do these motherfuckers really think Flynn made a green punk rival to Sonic twice by pure accident? She is totally meant to be aping off him, even if she’s different. And they both suck.
ftfy

>>147123278
Surge is just a generic Shattered Mirror/evil twin style Sonic that they made green to make him more identifiable.

>>147123345
surge is literally modelled off the asura glitch, kit & the platypus guy are also based on pallet glitches for blue tails & white chaotix knuckles respectively

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Why do IDW and Archie retards act like they aren't eating from the same pile, shat out by the same people?

>>147118010
Scourge sucked as Anti-Sonic but I loved how Ian developed him into a loser. For all of his power and for all that he had done, he was just a pathetic guy with daddy issues who couldn’t get a true bearing on who he was. In the end, just ended up as a prison bitch, got broken out by his crew who was going to ditch him anyway, then got wiped from existence. His story was a really good loser story.

As for Surge… I just don’t find her that interesting anymore. I really wish they didn’t just shove the plot line about her’s and Kit’s programming down the chute just like that. It does make sense for them to want to feel like heroes and want to be beloved by many due to their programming, yet they still tolerate the existence of Sonic and Tails. Why did that change? All we really got for an answer is “just because”. I really wish that the story challenged this more. Like, why not a story arc where Shadow gets involved where at first he decides he’s going to beat the shit out of Surge and Kit but then realizes that they are also victims of mind fuckery. Why doesn’t the comic go further into their trauma of being forcibly transformed into what they are now? This all just feels like untapped potential that got wasted, which is a reoccurring theme in IDW as a whole .

>>147123388
>shadow gets involved
that would have been cool as a fellow bioengineered weapon

>>147123388
>>147123414
Putting her next to Shadow just makes it more obvious she's not a particularly fresh idea and they are probably avoiding it because they realize this.

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>>147118010
scourge and it's not even close

>>147123513
Even DeviantArt slop is nicer to look at than this monstrosity

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>>147123376
Genuine autism

>Ian Flynn try not to create characters out of game glitches challenge impossible
Dr. Starline is based on the wechidna glitch from Knuckles Chaotix, Surge is based on the Ashura glitch from Sonic 2 and Kit on blue Tails glitch.

Well, how would (You) fix Surge The Tenrec?

>>147123049
Yep also it drove her crazy and was slowly burning her out too. An she still was slower than sonic and didn't have enough power to kill him. Also remember her base was beaten by idw metal who's a insane level jobber too. Not even neo metal either.

Really surge is slowly becoming just another oc who's slightly stronger than average. Unlike scourge who only could be beaten by top dogs, I could realistically believe surge loses to anyone.

>Cream beat up surge when she tried to steal her lunch money
eh I can believe it
>Surge gets caught by tangle and her tail
probably
>Surge gets sniped by whisper
100% likely

She feels to weak to be a "rival" for sonic, jet is a rival but more competitive and isn't meant to be super strong. But surge is set up as having his bio data and being trained to surpass and kill him.
>>147123060
It wasn't for the like but the fact she jobs and cries a lot for a new character who's supposed to be a cool punk rock asshole.
>>147123147
This, she was barely a villain and spent even less time as a rival. Now she'll just be another goodie probably join the diamond cutters which is a whole other can of worms. But she was meant to be a rival genetically made to be all of sonic's worse qualities or exaggerated because they were built in by a guy that didn't understand sonic or tails, why kit is submissive and useless without commands and surge is a schizo brat. Starline only got the surface level of their personalities.

>>147123833
Is she even necessary? I'd rather they bring back jet or johnny or something, she's basically meat metal sonic that becomes lesser sonic.

So, I guess my answer to that is do something that doesn't revolve around her inferiority complex over sonic, blaze is cool for example because she's basically another alternative female sonic, but she has her own motives & it's genuinely exciting when those motives butt head with sonic's.

>>147123376
You must be over 18 to be on 4chan

>>147123912
Always loved Johnny's design, wish he had more history.

>>147123936
This genuinely might be a bot response.

>>147123833
>Firstly make her initally stronger, or play on her regen more. Basically make her a majin buu/cell, so around same strength as now but she never stays down.
>Surge is a brat sadist, but she can give it out but can't take it. Making her a great rival for sonic as she's strong when she's on the front end but as a fight/war goes on she slowly gets more punked out. Basically she's not used to losing or getting back what she gives, both in banter or in physical damage
>Surge is irredeemable, she isn't some victim. She was someone that just wanted powers to be cool or to do whatever she wants. Her personality is mixed with sonic but the evil/sadist is mostly just innately surge
>She doesn't care about sonic being a "true hero" she just uses it as a excuse to belittle him and blames others for all her problems but is the true asshole
>Surge bullies kit and uses him more effectively she knows he's smart so purposefully negs him to keep him from realizing she needs him more than he needs her
>Kit is still stronger than surge but they are better at combo moves and surge uses his smarts and skills to get wins

Just a few ideas to make surge better, both character wise and for fun stuff like combo moves and fixing slight metas like victim surge. I might be basic but I prefer just villain surge

>>147118010
Didn't the same guy write the bulk of the parts of these character's stories that people actually like?

>>147123872
The compilation image is just a bunch of her cute faces, if you want an image of her crying instead of being cute you're free to make it yourself, scans are easy to find online and you would be able to make the picture in higher quallity.
The imagine right now is shrunken since the presumed full size image can't fit within 4chan's file limit, then I pasted some more shrunken down images on top of it.
If you want to make a compilation of her crying to illustrate how much you dislike her it won't take much effort anyways so you might as well do it yourself.

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>>147123257
>really think Flynn made
The meme literally calls him a Penders OC, they don't think Flynn made Scourge (his redesign and name) at all. And from the way they word the bullet point about Flynn on Surge's side, they probably don't know that he wrote Scourge's stories too lol
>>147123755
There was also Thrash, based off the little Sonic/Knuckles transition sprite on the Sonic & Knuckles title screen

>>147119622
What even was Clutch's plan? I know he wanted to get one over on the Restoration, but why?
Eggman is both of their enemies and in fighting only leads to loss of profit on Clutch's end, even if he doesn't like cleaning up the entire mess and just wants the salvage and honest partnership would probably serve his interests better.
He should be trying to ursurp control over the Restoration using trust, not using trust to fuck them over. Even if they still revealed the same information about him he could have argued it's better then Eggman winning, because it is.

>>147124138
Idk honestly he was just stupid, as you said I brought this up every thread but his plan was retarded. He used eggman parts and sold them, he already was getting paid. The restoration were using him why fuck that up. Like he says a true villain stays in the background as he sets up plan to keep the chaotic off his trail then makes a massive sweepstake race. Also makes fun of eggman, like was it just ego??? Because he was better off freely getting rid of eggman stuff then reselling it on the DL and making back and using the restoration as a shield from eggman. He'd still be villian/bad guy but more neutral, but instead he decided to make enemies of everyone at once?

Well thing is his goal of usurping was dumb that's a lot of extra stress, as the restoration fights eggman. So if he took them over it'd go from him salvaging to him having to run a army to beat eggman just to get the pieces it'd be more of a profit loss and even more stress to keep up his front. It was best to work as a independent contractor like he was but instead he tried to take everything over for no reason?
>>147124026
Eh I'm too lazy also I didn't care that much just assumed you were posting surge fail faces, as you replied to a guy talking about beaten and bullied surge. So I was like oh you forgot all the times she was crying, also isn't that cute??? But to each their own I'm slowly becoming less of a surge fan ask me back in the day I just might do it but now idk she loses her aura with every issue.

Lol wasn't about dislike just thought they fit the initial requirements

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>>147118908
Surge last chapter: I am YOUR fault. Starline? Eggman? Sure, theyre part of this and theyll get theirs, but it really comes down to YOU. If you had just taken them out, i wouldnt have been made!

Meanwhile Surge this chapter just proves to be a hypocrite. And yeah ofc you cant kill off eggman, but if the goal is to have eggman be aware of her existence, but also give surge the dynamo cage and have her be elsewhere, then you just gotta do a whole scene re-write. because there really is no reason as to why surge doesnt just do it right now. And by not doing it she comes off as a hypocrite and i no longer care for what you stand for and cant feel sorry for you. cause youve proven that when given the chance, you didnt do it either

>>147118010
Scourge, and it’s not even close. And how is having a shitty redemption arc a positive point?

>>147119271
Need to see Lightspine Scourge.

>>147123833

Drop the whole redemption/trauma angle and just have her (and Kit) be a chaotic neutral entity that does whatever she wants, essentially twisting Redeemnics speech out of spite. Whatever good she causes isn’t out of wanting to be adored but because of equally petty reasons (I.e. stopping a badnik attack not because she wants to help but because they were going to destroy a restaurant she frequently steals food from). Rough and Tumble 2.0, essentially.

>>147119297
She’s flat, so the only real option to with her is to make her bottom heavy.

>>147119410
And it’s literally Coldsteel the Hedgehog.

>>147119490
>Help me out, Kit. This is a cripple we’re up against.

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>>147123513

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Heya I made a 45sec clips video as why Lara Jill Miller would make a great Surge voice. Hope you enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxGHigDVYGg&ab_channel=AuraMasterRio

>>147124676
This is quite true, she really does shit on sonic but refuses to do the one thing she equates to ruining hers and others lives sparing the villain. Also she then proceeds to not want to be killed/bullied by everyone but she specifically said she wanted to be the villain and destroy the world. She'd be cooler if she was a suicidal villain that is just like "eh I'm a asshole so kill me" basically forcing sonic to kill someone even if circumstantial. Instead she gets spared and proves sonic right that by sparing people he can help them be better, but it's not portrayed that way as surge still hates sonic and his nature which makes her seem stupid.
>>147124895
This made me kek harder than it should have because it really is true. Kit has a better track record than the "sonic" clone, she might as well be clone of amy as she basically slowly proves to be inferior to most of the sonic main team.

>>147125037
Self promoting what a fucking loser ok you kind of got me with the shouting "let's go bubbles" part what show that from?

>>147118981
Yeah it feels like the lead writers Ian and Evan were both going in different directions for Surge's character leaving her confused and kind of meandering.
Heck they don't even address the fact she's a stupid idiot jobber in universe so it feels entirely unintentional, unlike with Scourge where him being pathetic with a facade is the point.

>>147118010
Scourge is a simply the better character to read. Surge is just your typical "whoa is me, I was wrong by the world" villain who is basically assured a redemption and is currently in the middle of it. Scourge is a villain, but he's fun. He likes being a dick and his overconfidence makes his defeats as enjoyable. Surge can be fun, but only when she's not crying or seething because she feels wronged by someone.

>>147125037
Pretty good fit but I imagine Surge sounding older.

>>147125081
Judging by the rat fink girl, it's from the CN show OK KO.

>>147125068
>>147124676
I think Surge would just be better if she was just portrayed having a grudge against Sonic, Eggman, and Starline and trying to kill them all.

No faux-deep crap about how her life revolves around Sonic, no "IF WE DON'T HAVE A PAST, THEY DON'T GET A FUTURE!!" or whatever. She just hates Starline for making her into a freak, Eggman for inspiring Starline, and Sonic for failing to stop them both. The simplest backstories are usually the best ones, IMO.

Like have her be the Red Hood to Sonic's Batman.

>>147125158
Yeah I'd say older but not full on mommy dom like a lot of va's do for her. She's supposedly a bit younger than sonic so she might actually sound like a slightly older fink
>>147125158
Also I don't think so I watched ok ko don't remember her watching ppg. Assumed it was the other girl

>>147125037
That actually fits, Ngl. Especially when she is yelling

>>147125250
True her immediately going from I want to be a hero the world deserves to fuck sonic and his friends to trying to kill people in a town was all over the place.

Really is best as it makes sonic in the wrong as he has to live with the fact he unintentionally made surge. Gives her a point to stand on and maybe just show how she hurts others along the way to her goals. An still I'm pro her being sonics first "kill" where to keep from making more surge's or harming more people he's forced to put surge down/stop holding back and no more redemption as she's to far gone.

That sounds a bit cool even if I prefer no anti hero surge, but probably just the redemption arc jading me to it.

>>147123755
Ian is not original. He blatantly copies from another source.

>>147125583
It's just a color pallet, calm down son.

>>147125579
>hat sounds a bit cool even if I prefer no anti hero surge, but probably just the redemption arc jading me to it.
Yeah, that's probably the best option for Surge. Have her be a sort of Red Hood to Sonic, but then have him be forced kill her as you suggest. Shadow already had a big redemption arc, and it's not like Sonic really needs any more rivals.

>>147126062
It's an inherent problem with speedsters in media, speed is always rivaled by speed. I don't need more rivals, but the IDW cast is still pretty frustratingly small.

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I insist, Surge should have been Sonic's number one fan.

>>147123367
Scourge and Finitevus are also based off of Asura and Wechnia

>>147126143
Based headcanon the embarrassment from Surge would be wonderful.

>>147126062
True, she'd always be remembered too bet their'd be tons of if surge lived aus and surge spared aus etc. People would petition for a surge revival.
>>147126097
Yee, really and it's hard to make a opposite to speed and especially hard to make them fun. Like flash has the turtle but turtle is so unheard of most don't even know he exist. It's all zoom, reverse flash, paradox, speed demon,inertia etc. It's hard to make a super strong or super smart person realistically beat flash because he thinks in planck time.
>>147126143
God sad their isn't more of this art/concept, remember their being a really good green about how surge went from this to surge but it's from like 2 years ago so it's probably lost to time.

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>>147126143
Also, more tits!

>>147126143
I really hate the fact people think Surge is actually a successful character just because shippers have deluded themselves into thinking she's in love with Sonic or Amy.

>>147126337
It really says something that Surge has gotten into the mobile phone games while Kit hasn't.

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>Aura merchant
What?

being a sonicuck is a mental illness

>>147126444
Trips of truth.

>>147126309
The true reason she went through the experiments was to be more appealing to her hero.
>>147126337
I'm not delusional but I like the ship art. only really surgamy shippers/yuri fags simp for her. Most surge fans are yurifags that try to potray her and lanolin as well written and super cool. like I've seen many try to make surge look so cool and dominant when she cried at least once every other issue she's been in. I like her best as just a bulliable/tsundere cringe fail villain. As it's the only way to enjoy her without getting depressed by how she actually is in the series. But I know it's just fanon, and she's sadly poorly written

>>147126337
Most people I see just think she's really neat in concept, and she has a sick design. I don't know what your metric for "successful character" is beyond popularity, and she shot up the ranks.

>>147126444
obsessively fixating on things you don't like is also a mental illness in the first world

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>>147118010
They both pale against Seelkadoom.

>>147126463
>bulliable/tsundere cringe fail villain
You are a man of culture and taste my friend, at least some people can appreciate the good things about her instead of lesbian headcanon.

>>147126504
>I don't know what your metric for "successful character" is beyond popularity

Actually being used more than she warrants because she's just not going anywhere.

If she was, say, reduced to near-vegetative after the cage overloaded and Kit escaped with her and the plot would have been to repair her mind and possibly restore some of her memories, that could have been interesting, but the next time she appeared she was perfectly fine, and things just don't get any better. You can have all the potential in the world but it doesn't mean jack shit if you haven't actually done anything worthwhile, and Surge sure as hell hasn't. I'm through giving her any chances because I just don't trust IDW to have competent writing.

>>147126540
Thank yee, and really like I like surgamy but hate the fans/creators. They tend to make sure super dominant and cool which is whatever but then they always hard defend her as if her character can do no wrong. Like when people said her redemption was dumb remember tons of schizos jumping on them saying how "actually" surge is a sweet little baby and was never truly a villain just a victim. I prefer pretending surge is just a coward or pushover a bit like a lamer scourge lol.

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>>147123388
>>147123414
>>147123429
Shadow and Surge mentorship would be good. Not only do you have someone to put that bitch in line, you can also strip Shadow from the jerkass mode he's been in all of IDW. Now that Sonic 3 released, it's the perfect time to cut that act out.

>>147126585
Yeah Surge Amy is cute, but Surge herself is a girl failure and not terribly impressive. Although I think both are kind of true, she's a victim of Starline and she definitely has a point somewhere in her aimless grudge against Sonic and Eggman, but she's also a pathetic asshole who self sabotages.
But the narrative never really acknowledges that which is the problem I have with the writing, Scourge is pathetic but his story is about him being pathetic. While Surge just feels like she's written with a lot of stuff taken for granted.

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Scourge is superior because he actually accomplishes stuff. He's a credible threat and a fun joke at the same time. The only reason anyone pretends to like Surge is because she's a chick.

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>>147126647
She has his DNA, so why not.
Besides she and every other Sonic rival has something like that in similar, maybe Gemerl could help her chill out?

>>147126539
now that's a name I've not heard in a long time, this shit was my jam in primary school, completely ate up Seelkadoom as a cool new Sonic villain until Nazo stole the spotlight. Got a soft spot for them both as works of passionate Sonic fans ramping up the shonen tone.

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Surge if she was a good character
Captcha: 0KJAP

>>147118010
Surge is somehow more of a pathetic loser than Scourge and not in a fun or interesting way, it's just fucking weird.

>>147126893
how is it that every woman kubo draws comes out looking like a 10/10 sex queen

>>147126753
>She has his DNA, so why not.
Does that make all three of them their dads

>>147126984
Yes, Sonic is a deadbeat but Shadow is too responsible to abandon his daughter.
That is he he knew Surge was his daughter.

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>>147127001
This only makes the concept of Shadow as a father figure more appealing.
But either they or SEGA will be too cowardly to do it.

>>147122980
>>147126383
Essentially, a character who stands around looking cool but constantly jobs. Like Piccolo in any DBZ movie

>>147127051
That's funny because Piccolo is the one who got the best performance in any of the Z movies. Everyone else jobs even harder.

>>147126753
>Metal Sonic
He doesn't have biological components.

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>>147127201
Suge is a zombot as well remember and a cybernetic skeleton? So she probably has some of metal sonic integrated into her as well.

>>147127201
Metal Sonic copied Sonic and Shadow's DNA in Heroes and Starline used that information from Metal Sonic's code on Surge, is the point there

>>147126753
every time Starline talks about the Staus Quo or derisively about the cast/setting I want him slammed into asphalt even more.

>>147118010
Scourage the Scouwardly Hog

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Will this ever leak?

>>147126753
Killing this guy off was such a misstep. He's the only remotely interesting IDW character.

>>147127370
I think Mimic is neat but he's also the only IDW character I really think is neat

>>147127506
Just reminded me there's this one black girl on twitter who thirsts over Clutch for some reason.

>>147127260
I just don't get what's even the point of that, it accomplishes nothing. It feels more like the bitter ramblings of a writer that clearly wants to do ANYTHING else but write Sonic, so they're speaking through the character to get on their soapbox. Never once does it feel like these fourth wall leaning moments are orgnaic observations by the characters, nor does it come across as a joke like how Sonic Boom handled it. It's just so cynical.

>>147127534
she should do better frankly, Clutch is so damn lame. Like he's the kind of mob guy that gets killed off to establishes the REAL cool mafia villain but that actual cool villain never comes.

>>147118010
You bring this shit from twitter? I saw pastel flag account defending IDW hard

>>147127580
Ian’s a hack who can’t write, and Sonic fans are low iq manchildren and consoomers who will clap for cheap references with no substance.
So Ian just puts in some surface-level meta commentary, has them reference a song or a reddit meme or say “the sonic cycle”, and hey presto the fandom claps like seals. Same with the sonic and the chipmunks movies.

>>147127580
it’s not cynical since he presents Starline as a dumb loser who eggman btfos and same with surge when Sonic gives his dumb speech calling himself a hero and her a villain and she’s not even allowed to counterargue sonic’s pure cognitive dissonance even though it’d be easy as fuck in actual prose

>>147127580
it annoys me almost as much as the talks of Sonic not killing people in the comic since I hate that topic enough as is already and frankly it doesn't fit since Sonic though willing to make allies from foes with some moderate success when warranted and not murderous has no problem leaving Eggman to die in constant games or not worrying he might kill him in several boss fights like Rush, 3 n Knuckles or Forces, has killed Erazor/had intent to kill Arthur even if it turned out wasn't a real person and ultimately it's stupid to blame him when the problem is just that Dr Eggman is built different, he'd somehow survive even if Sonic or Shadow tried to kill him. It's also just not something they'll have Sonic do, fuck the third film that just came out handled the topic and idea so much better in a few scenes compared to several issues that it's not even funny.

>>147127627
if Sonic fans are such consoomers then how come they are bitching about the cheap references and can't even agree on what they like since it's such a wide array of differing viewpoints or can't even agree on what Sonic should be like?

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>>147122355
I NEED THE SOURCE FOR THIS I CAN'T FIND THIS SHIT ANYWHERE. WHO DREW THIS?

>>147127725
That’s the thing: they aren’t. It’s as easy to get sucked in to an anti-hugbox of criticism as it is a hugbox of coddling, irl the majority of sonicfags now absolutely suck Frontiers’ dick. The classic v modern v archie rivalry of old has diffused as well, now everyone is pathetic and kinda sad and desperate to hype uo the generic homogenised slop that sega produces in movies and comics and games alike

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>>147127732
https://x.com/Ilikestuffdoyou/status/1800934732026544510
I just cropped out the one Surge for the sake of the post, but the whole page is super cute

>>147127770
It seems more like you have a specific idea of Sonic fans to reinforce your own negative feelings since I see plenty of people bitch about Frontiers, IDW or whatever. Frankly for every positive doubling down you'll see an equal negative double down, like frankly you can't label the whole Sonic fandom as one thing or viewpoint since it's so massive and has it's own branches of either japanese purists, adaption preference, games only matter, only specific games matter, Classic vs modern and many others such as people that just like all Sonic uncritically as you've probably seen yourself or people that view it all extremely critically except for specific examples that match what they feel should be Sonic.

>>147127802
I love this guy's art style so much, especially how he does Marvel gals or his oc villains.

>>147127833
My idea’s based just in how numerically common they are. And unfortunately if you count the number of vocal people who are actually critical of the games or want them to be in a certain direction, vs the low iq social media mob who look at sonic on an ipad and type in all caps “AYO DIS SHIT BE COOKIN PEAK BRUH”, nowadays the latter outnumber the former 1000 to 1.
The sonic fandom now, by vast majority, clap for anything.

>>147127892
suppose years of the 2010's hyper negative fixation on Sonic jaded a lot of people to feel the need to be overly positive and low effort in praise. It's not healthy suppose if actual issues or flaws need to be pointed out or fixed but that's just a big issue with how much social media has devolved and how people interact or use it. Though I tend to just look at fanworks in regards to Sonic and only check fandom discussion on here or pluschan now and then.

>>147127802
thanks king, appreciate it

>>147127654
That doesn't make it any better though. It's not like Eggman beating up Starline is being used as a rebuttal to say "See, the status quo is AWESOME! We should never change it!". No, it's a very blatant admission of defeat. They can't do anything because big bad corporate is keeping the writers from doing whatever they want, so shut up and stop questioning the very things the writers themselves set up in the first place.

It only exasperates the cynical and bitter nature of these fourth wall leans.

I can't believe that Clutch is STILL the focus of the next few issues. It maybe wouldn't have been so so bad if he was better than he is. Rough and Tumble are okay. Then next, they'll do the Zeti but admittedly they haven't shown up in a while but still. I wish Sonic had like a huge pool of baddies like Marvel does for some characters in canon.

>>147128006
not to be that guy but Archie was great for giving Sonic a massive rogues gallery of villains of differing power scale, tone or allegiance on top of a lot of fun personalities and designs or animal choices. The games have some potential with it but Fang/Bean/Bark are classic exclusive alongside the hardboiled heavies, the Deadly Six are ass, the Black Arms are extinct, Infinite who could be salvaged as a character is ambiguously alive/dead and frankly it's insane how lacking in animal/mobian/sonic worldian/anthro characters as villains the games have.

>>147128056
Yeah, i know. The canon ones are slim pickings. Like there's way more good guys than bad guys which also leads to that feeling.

>>147118010
Be cause Scrouge is cringe as fuck

>>147127227
>Suge is a zombot as well remember and a cybernetic skeleton

She doesn't have the cybernetic exoskeleton, that's a leftover part of the original plan where Surge and Kit were androids because Android 17 and 18 lol right, which Sega wouldn't allow.

>>147128080
Honestly I wish sega would also try using more interesting animals like reptiles/bugs/sea animals for characters also. Hell if did a game with the ocean as a setting would be a fun shift for Sonic having to deal with that and maybe rely on allies more plus could introduce a whole assortment of sea themed foes based on sharks, orca's, leopard seals, angler fish, sea kraits and much more, like fans get really creative with these animals when making characters. I think sega should dial from robot/god villains for a bit to give more mobian style recurring villains or even some one shots that have potential to make returns like Black Doom did, like he's corny but I still think he was a fun villain that brought something different the two appearances he got in the games.

>>147118010
>I believe Scourage was more consistent as villain
This is true, but consistently shit doesn't mean better.

>>147128086
When IDW gets cancelled and they reboot again the third lame green sonic should be called Scrooge this time
He’s very rich and has three annoying grandnephews and he can swim in coins

>>147128125
They stick with mammals a lot because they're probably easier to cartoon than those other types of life. It's nice we got someone like Mimic but I don't expect more water creatures anytime soon, much less for bad guys.

>>147127051
Piccolo is actually useful in the movies though, why did you specify that.
Like, main series Piccolo is much closer to what you described.

>>147128224
Yeah a shame but wishful thinking, honestly 80% of my bias to Mimic is his animal choice and design. I love octopus and having one on the setting is nice, they even got the detail of them being beaked right which was nice. Wish they'd give him more abilities though like perhaps ink stuff, using his suction cups more or squeezing through spaces as long as he can drag his weapon through to.

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>>147128105
All these facts are mentioned back-to-back on pages of Impostor Syndrome, despite how contradictory some of them may seem, and at the very least ABT seems to treat them as if they are canon for what that's worth.

>>147128139
Sergio
He's a film director with cartoonish amounts of money and a willingness to make deathtraps that look like movie sets and film people trying to escape them alive.

Like Westworld, but a little less Blade Runner and a little more Mad Mod.

>>147128369
>squeezing through spaces
Has he actually done this yet? I don't know if he did.

>>147128416
I don't think he has but imagine like him pursuing Whisper and her having to make sure there's no gaps to squeeze in so he can ambush her or being the explanation how he hasn't been jailed since he just slips out of any prison or bindings literally. Just passing through bars, ventilation, cuffs and so on. Hell could use it to also explain how he doesn't immediately get pasted by the superpowered cast since it lets blows be softened on his bizarre octopus body.

>>147128139
>When IDW gets cancelled

Should happen, but never will.

>>147128508
That would be cool, and it's funny to think that's a problem to deal with when any bad octopus mobian. They can slip by so easily

>>147123755
honestly? since they cant truly change the status quo, i would like surge to realize that its doomed to repeat itself, so shes becomes a more cynical version of sonic. she relishes on the fact that, unlike sonic, shes truly free to do everything because she has no responsibilities(besides finding out who she was before losing her memories) and can appear as an ally, rival or enemy depending of how she feels. its the same idea of "sonic if he took the easy way" but put on a character that can actually escape being in the shadow of sonic.

>>147125583
but enough about Sonic Team...

>>147128564
sorry, meant >>147123833

>>147128564
>i would like surge to realize that its doomed to repeat itself,

That was part of her whole "plan" shortly after discovering the truth behind what Starline did to them. It didn't really go anywhere.

>>147128583
they tried to make her try to break the cycle and then just do nothing. i prefer if they went the path of surge and kit actually realizing they have no actual reason to continue starlines purpose. they could even make it a fun twist that surges reason to never intervene is because it keeps "the status quo". dunno, i find it funny the idea of surge just not caring about every event and only appearing to have fun or kill time, wether sonic wins or not, she doesnt care because it will go back to the status quo regardless.

>>147128561
Octopus prison would just be a big plastic orb filled with water they have to monitor and have a tight one way hatch to dump food in.

>>147126663
Yeah but you accept she's a failure they refuse to accept that part lol. She really is fun in concept but is all over the place in reality, they either need to focus on the victim part or the villain part or the redemption part or sonic hate. But they try to do it all at once while also pretending she's some giga stacy villain that realistically can compete with sonics other rivals.

Yep, also scourge is op and only pathetic when his power/domination is stripped from him. Like how he tends to cling to his ego that everyone is as bad as him but he drags that out of most and sonic even calls this out as him being a coping loser. But he's also op and can take on most of the heavy hitters of archie, scourge is sonic after all. Yeah true really I say more all over the place and them banking on her being cute which I guess they were right looking at how hard twitter fans defend her if she's critiqued even a little
>>147126750
Yep exactly what I was saying above. He was a actual threat and only a joke in hindsight as really scourge at first felt like this overwhelming evil sonic then the reveal he's basically a needy brat that has daddy issues makes everything we thought was cool so fucking lame. But Surge has never beaten or done well against a main game character or anyone, her one dub is against metal with a power boost and with a 2v1, then the other is whisper who just uses a wispon and surge was losing at first and then realized "oh wait I have the device to absorb her wisp" literally needed a perfect counter to beat a normal mobian with a gun. She further proves to be gun level by being hurt by clutch and being shot by him. Surge literally will never beat the jobber allegations and it will get worse as she is a hero/anti hero meaning she'll have more negative feats.

>>147128105
Nah the skeleton is canon and the zombo regen, but they just made them cyborgs instead of home grown. As Sega didn't like the idea of home grown mobians too dark, though thought of two kids cut open and ripped apart and genetically modified to make way for better genes and cybernetics seems more fucked.

>>147118010
There's more fanart of Surge fucking Lanolin, so I'm pretty sure she wins by default.

>>147128676
>the skeleton is canon

You don't know that.

>>147128700
....what?

>>147128709
Ian said this in the same podcast he confirmed sega didn't want to do them being full on genetically made.

>>147128795
That's fair since makes Gerald more impressive that he created a lifeform such as Shadow when even guys like Starline couldn't do that with 50 years of technological advancement.

>>147118010
You're tryiatgsfndcb nbbbbbbbbbbb

>>147128755
If you fuck Lanolin you Lanowin

>>147128676
>thought of two kids cut open and ripped apart and genetically modified to make way for better genes and cybernetics seems more fucked.

Especially when you take in account the fact that they kept dying during training and being brought back to life. Among other things, it was implied that Surge was vertically bisected by a giant sawblade.

>>147129022
they could do a funny meta-story of leftover surge clones wanting to one up the original surge with even more weirder designs, all being led by a surge with cool shades who "came before".

>>147128966
This guy gets it.

>>147129022
Jesus forget that little detail, but yeah she really doesn't lean enough into the whole "oh wait I'm fucking immortal"
>>147128829
Think that's probably the reason as while surge and kit are shit compared to shadow. It still does undermine his insane accomplishment even if just failed knock offs
>>147129108
Lol idk why that sounds hilarious a mob of jobbers trying to prove they are less of a jobber than the queen jobber.

Also weird no one talks about how they might pull a cell in the future since we saw some bio material in starline's lab. So really instead of surge clones maybe a cell type shows up in the future since they are made based on 18 and 17

>>147129532
now that you mention it, it could be funny if we see surge and kit survive a lot of phisical damage only to be revealed that they can heal it but they forget about it. could make a "tails is inmortal" reference with that.

>>147129532
Yeah, Zombots already adapt to shit, Black Arms have all sorts of weird powers, Sonic himself is a mystery, not to mention how including pieces of Metal Overlord will interact with all of that.
I could 100% see a Cell/Majin-a-like appearing later, or maybe something like another spare android that focused more on the Black Arms/Shadow aspect which isn't followed up on.

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Given that Starline turned out to be a wash, it'd be cool to use Imperator Ix as his replacement in something else. Dude has an actual connection to Knuckles too.

>>147129557
True, really weird they forgot it since they both died in their initial comic. Kit assuming once his pack is off he dies/goes thanatosis, and surge falls like a few 1000 feet and gets crushed by tons of debris and metal. Hard to not realize you are immortal, and yeah that'd be funny though hard to reference.
>>147129571
Jesus that sounds like a fucking demon, basically all the best parts of everything. Be ironic if he's like cell forreal and just better version of surge. Remember cell was a after thought and made because editor said 18 and 17 were to boring to be the main threat. Basically they realize with surge being good theirs no true new villain that can touch sonic

Even funnier if the"Cell" is a female and is basically just them making good surge. Making her a vindictive uncaring monster that has both sonics speed, shadows black arm bs transformations regen and overlords bio data adaptation. Basically a true threat to sonic, and merciless. Imagine how fast surge would fall off/be forgotten if a female cell perfect hybrid was made and she actually can beat or keep up with sonic.

>>147129639
could even play into jokes and maker her powers be ghost-based cuz knuckles fears ghosts.

>>147129571
A horrible bio monster that becomes more mobian as it absorbs Kit, Surge or strong character temporarily is way to cool an idea for IDW not to fumble

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>>147129639
>>147129716
It'd be interesting if Surge herself was the "Cell"/Bio-Monster. Like maybe she goes off her rocker enough that she absorbs Kit and Metal Sonic or some shit and becomes a horrible monstrosity. Be a nice subversion of the obvious redemption arc they're setting her up for.

On the other hand, she has a knack for fucking up and jobbing even with power-ups. Look at the Dynamo Cage.

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>>147129532
>>>147129022 (You)
>Jesus forget that little detail, but yeah she really doesn't lean enough into the whole "oh wait I'm fucking immortal"

I think they were too traumatized by watching a lot of footage of them repeatedly dying in horrible ways to really think about the upside of the situation.

>>147129807

Also her expression in that top image kinda suggests that she'd already been killed by the trap in front of her once before and was happy that she avoided it this time.

>>147129787
Suppose be one hell of a way to kill her off to have her become a Metal Overlord esque monster form or perhaps afterwards be completely factory reset with no memory if she survives as a tragic fate but also one that lets her rebuild into a normal life with a foster family maybe.

>>147129807
god this panel really made me pissed that they didnt went with dumb cocky girlfailure surge. she has almost no neuron on that head, so adorable.

>>147129926

That was like six hundred deaths before the current Surge; Starline only wiped most of her memory each time, not all of it.

>>147129952
i will forgive ian flynn and idw if they decide to go with the "surge was a sonic fan who wanted to be like her hero and the events of forces made her try to become one by any means" backstory. it adds a perfect tragedy that a girl with potential ended up as the nerve-bomb jobber that is surge. could even explain why her actions look like shes trying too hard, she kinda is because she subsconsciously still has the same mindset of her past self.

>>147129626
Sega isn't allowing that can of worms to be opened

>>147129807
>traumatized
>presented as silly gags

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>>147130153

That's how Starline saw that footage; annoying failures that were mildly amusing but still educational.

They saw things differently.

>>147129687
Lol ghost mobian/main villian could be interesting play on science somehow makes supernatural powers and the fact eggman is pure tech and sciences they'd be supernatural and chaos stuff.
>>147129716
True lowkey I joked about making it a female to be the actual good surge but better to make it male because if it was female they'd make it a crying lesbian jobber. Only male ocs are allowed to be evil and even rough and tumble got redeemed even if soft redeemed.
>>147129787
No! sorry anon, surge has fumbled to much anon them doing that would just be cringe lowkey as they've already redeemed her and did crazied surge early so it'd be like they change her whole personality for the umpthtenth time and it will be lame because we know how inconsistent she is also once you lose your villain aura it's over. Surge has lost to much to ever be truly intimidating it's a numbers game, and her ratio is already in the red.

Indeed lol
>>147129807
Why'd you put (you) ??? lol

I mean true still more like, they worry but they are literally immortal how can you be scared and bullied when you know you win the battle of attrition
>>147129827
Could just be well not dying lol, plus seems he erased the memories unless maybe the trauma became to much so he started erasing the memories later on.
>>147129839
From evil monster goddess, to mind broke amnesic sundress good girl. Idk if that'd be a great conclusion or just depressing

>>147129626
I'm surprised at how better this character design is when rendered in 3D.

Too bad the Nocturnus are no longer an option.

>>147130266
Funny how much this aged like milk considering Sonic on a broken leg made Surge look like a bozo

>>147129626
This guy was fucking awesome and it's criminal he can't be used again. He would've made a great recurring villain.

>>147130266
Remember kids this is a edit and would never happen kek.
>>147130317
Indeed they specifically made it a random mobian template we now know why, surge is only tough on normies and they can't have guns either lol

>>147130317
who cares it doesn't have to follow the comic canon and sonic immunity won't allow him to lose.

>>147130397
White Echidna is just a recipe for great villain design considering Dr Finitevus and also Dr Zachary are top tier to.

>>147130433
I know just funny since people clown on Infinite but he unironically has a better success rate as a villain then her, honestly wish SEGA would bring him back to use better and let him reach hys potential as a character.

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>Introduced as super-elite ultra badass
>Always loses fights and needs to be rescued
>Tries to act "hard" but always cracks under the slightest bit of pushback
>Emotionally weak
She had potential but turned out so fucking boring. I don't mind her having trauma but can you at least let her actually do SOMETHING successfully at least once? She's broken down and cried like 5 times now and anytime she almost did something cool it immediately got undone a page later. And now Tangle is attached to her at the hip so she's stuck on therapist duty all the time.

It seems like they're trying to make the writing more "mature" with her but it's so overdone that it has the opposite effect and it feels like a juvenile attempt at being deep.

>>147130560
She's even more ruined than Surge is. At least Surge got a few shots in on Clutch and Sonic during the latest arc.

>>147130382
>Biblically accurate Surgamy

>>147130382
Man, the tan arms really do cause some dissonance when the characters are depicted with actual shoulders. But if they don't have them, it's too much solid color, I can't land on which is better.
Also damn, is Rouge really just hairless everywhere but her face?

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Personally, I always felt it would be better to just have Surge be a Tangle rival, outside of the fact that out of all the IDW OCs, outside of porn, Tangle and Surge were essentially top billers with Whisper being the second top out of the three. Kit has not been doing great, despite his good qualities and the time before Evan fucked that up But beyond that, since her direction shift was inevitable, I see the next best option of being a matter of contesting Philosophies: one more founded around sonic's belifs down to blind trust, one that's out right about surpassing those ideals while taking steps Sonic refuses. Whisper sits very close inbetween as she was and still technically is a person willing to kill if driven to it like back in the metal virus so the only difference beyween her and Surge is the latter is or at least was far more radical about how things should be.

Another fact is that Tangle is pretty much aimless to date, she has no real arc and her purpose was just to be as free as sonic for adventures, both she and surge are just different female sonics but one didn't get any speed and is supposed to be at odds with him. Outside of the fact that even Kit would do better as his own full villain at this point, I see the idea of Surge being a the Shadow to knuckles of the OCs is kinda more than what amounted to Ian saying he wanted her to stay a villain and then Evan went around to go for a redemption arc, leading to a mass contradiction of what the fuck her point was on some form of high ground of any kind.

Then there's the fact Sonic doesn't really need an extra rival even now since Shadow is still top dog and metal sonic still hasn't been put to dirt yet or just perma subbed out for Neo Metal.

Then again there's also the fact that More or less Surge rounds out the dynamic of alternative hero better and that frees whisper from having to play so safe with roles if all 3 from a new team at this point

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>>147130560
I still love Whisper.

>>147130560
She was better before tangle, her and tangle are at their worst together. Whisper was the only oc I actually liked, tangle felt like to much of a fan girl and autist but she's at her worst ruining whisper.

Yeah she really does get this weird pg deep vibe, where they keep moving it back to just crying and being weak. The ocs lowkey have no true wins outside of power of friendship moments and against jobbers like rough and tumble.
>>147130813
Actually you aren't wrong, she'd work better for the ocs as she's basically closest to them in terms of strength. An you aren't wrong the reason I dislike tangle is she has no real arc, made even worse with her ship that's quasi canon and lanolin being the new pushed oc with her leader bs. Tangle has gotten better as they've toned down the autismo and super hyper vibe but still not great as she has no real backstory or character arc. Like she's in every arc but is still just a random girl that gained powers/had powers and works with sonic cause she wanted to be like him. She literally felt like a fan of day one and even now has a fan oc development she got a gf who's the edgy damaged girl, she is part of the main cast though she really isn't that strong or competent etc.

Yeah these aren't bad ideas, or facts as really they both are basically just idw's version of not sonic traits to the max. I still say the biggest problem is how to really make that switch and really do we care enough to give tangle a rival.

>>147118317
>Scourge is meta commentary on Sonic copies.
This is true but Surge is basically no different in that regard, in fact it's even more deliberate and in your face with her because at least Scourge had some history as evil Sonic to round out his character whereas Surge was born to be the most Sonic-copy copy of Sonic from the beginning.

I do wonder what anyone sees in either of these characters. While I appreciate Scourge's narrative presence, carrying some of the best stories in Archie, as a person he's equal parts pathetic and despicable. Surge is much the same, except narratively speaking she's also been a non-factor ever since her proper introduction. Being indoctrinated and floating in a test tube was literally more compelling than anything she's done since.

My only explanation is that they're just objects of lust. The bad boy, the bad bitch. But I'm open to changing my mind if I've overlooked something about these characters.

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>>147118908
What it was probably meant to be was a subversion of the rival-to-friend pipeline where she spergs out, gets beaten, but instead of taking the high road she decides to stick to the life she was forced into and still dedicate herself to defeating Sonic even after it being made clear to her how she could improve her life and move on, so like a tragic irony sort of thing. She'd probably show up from time ti time and cause problems for the heroes at inopportune moments and/or use different methods to get an edge over Sonic like with her cuck cage. Then Evan got a hold of her and subverted the pipeline a different way, by making something other than Sonic the catalyst for her change and making her not one of Sonic's friends after deciding to be good.

>>147119030
Not to mention that despite wanting to be a hero now, she blasts Sonic then leaves everyone on the ship for dead instead of staying and helping. They can't even get her latest character arc consistent.

>>147131051
Seems like Ian wrote imposter syndrome then around 50 or 51 evan took over. I think based on podcast Ian meant to do full on villain as he said they have enough friends and good guys and not enough villains. But really either way pretty poorly done.

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>>147130979
I originally wanted to add something but held off since it's mainly just something I noted, back in the first issues Tangle was fairly district about something interesting to me: She comes across a sonic fan club and immediately tries to get the kids to make it a Tangle fan club, the punchline was that she showed off and failed to take out a badnik and sonic showed up and beat it instead, but the moment to me rang as a forgotten detail: Tangle didn't want to be sonic and wasn't even as much of a fan girl as people often insist, she wanted to be her own adventurer or someone seen as just as cool or better.

Out of all the things they've done with her I always felt the idea of her trying to become a superior hero or someone as popular and admired as sonic would have been even an inch of an arc for her and with how surge is going the idea of the two starting some sort of rivalry over becoming heroes to be seen as better than sonic actually feels like it would set them on a path that means they could go do more on their own with Whisper in tow rather than being stuck like how Tangle and whisper ended up after the mini series where for a long span of time both just vanished from the story, Whisper was supposed to be tracking down Mimic and Tangle was technically supposed to be working for the restoration but also possibly choosing to go after her to follow along and help, a large plot that ended up falling though once surge showed up since suddenly whisper was now back to working for the restoration with little explanation. Tangle not having an arc ends as both good and bad since it means she can go be anywhere but at the same time it means she is never really tied to anything.

Another issue comes down to Tangle's powers not being all that flashy and often underused as a total of 2 times does she do more than punch or grab with it(Once during supper she uses it for a panel as a propeller to swim faster, and once during the city arc to make a full wheel)

>>147119128
I appreciated this Scourge moment too because "one bad day" is where this argument usually ends and the character accepts that they're that close to losing themselves or they make some vague platitude friendship and justice comment or something, while Sonic here takes Scourge's exact logic and throws it right back in his face. It's also a nice example of how to write Sonic expositing his personality without going overboard because it's concise and warranted for the situation.

>>147119203
>kind of hope sonic 4 will do something cool with the concept.
It did, it gave him a theme song that fits him better than Stardust Speedway.

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>>147131072
Yeah that made no sense, she just hoped sonic died I guess. But then in the fucking annual WHICH SPOILED THE ENDING OF THE ARC THAT SHE IS JUST A HERO NOW But they imply she's going around saving people and hates on people for loving sonic saying how they dick ride sonic for the ship but she does nothing to help and actually damages the ship as well and leads to the self destruct and crash because she forced clutches hand as well.

Like how can they explain this page, she really basically mad people trust sonic and not her but she abandoned everyone while even JET helps people

>>147119500
>he even once did a zoom in shot of her for no reason to focus on her design.
Didn't she have a speaking role in that issue? I would guess this is less him and more that they had already planned to make her leader of the DC at this point so they wrote that she had to have focus here as a hint to pay attention to this character because she'll be important later.

>>147119975
>Scourge is just "bad Sonic" and has nothing original to his name.
That itself doesn't make him bad though, he's well executed as both a villain and a foil to the hero which is more important than trying too hard to be new.

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>>147131152
>>147119500
Lanoin is a character that shouldn't have been made a real cast member or for that matter should have stayed in the background. A large portion of her popularity, outside of sheep titty, ABT kept drawing her and portraying a personality that just really wasn't part of her in the comic down to even currently still making whole comics that have nothing to do with the actual story and have her portrayed as much closer to Surge in a willing spite and hatred of Sonic and his ways down to one pretty much laying flat she'd prefer the chance to kill him and thinks about it often and blames him for any issues she is facing overall in life. The lanolin that comes from ABT alone is the one peple kept thinking about but the one in comic just is far form that.

Funny thing is, she comes off as a bitch both in ABT's self comics and in actual comics because she has no experience compared to everyone else yet acts like she was one of the people on the actual front lines or went through a shadow tier event. ABT writes her as the tier 1 sonic hater hat Surge wishes she could be but even for his version her reasons are as vapid as surge on just saying it's sonic's fault for not killing eggman or otherwise and that he's too busy playing with their lives.

https://x.com/AdamBryceThomas/status/1834168940462997885/photo/2

>>147122225
Both Evan and Ian have a mindbreak fetish and a despair fetish.

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>>147131092
Yep the scene is short and not like the surge equivalent which is long winded and makes sonic look like a holier than thou guy. Why many wish Archie sonic met surge because he'd be a bit merciful but get tired of her shit fast and beat her ass then call her a crybaby lol.

But again really is great as it really does make a unique play on a overused trope that many just accept as being normal. But he's right by the same logic most villains have the potential to change but instead heroes accept they could go bad which is kind of dumb in most versions, It really only works in the original i.e joker and batman as they both are two side of gotham and insanity.
>>147131118
I mean the movie anon, because it seems metal heavy. I hope neo metal is in it and some good metal character happens since eggman is dead or blown away.
>>147131090
Hmmm interesting take on it, I always saw her as a sonic fan girl but maybe you are right. Also her being more of a rookie hero who's not really ready to be game character tier but trying her best could be fun and give her some character

I kind of like idea of them being sonic one uppers but failing because well experience and skill gap. But I just am not a fan of good surge like at all, I hope they do something like have surge "kill" sonic then try to be the new hero but realize she's super under qualified or can't handle the stress like the superior spider man scene where she realizes the new villain is to strong and she can't keep the teams together so when sonic comes back she basically has to accept he's better than her and realize all her assholery and hate on him was just childish and she was just being arrogant thinking just because she's strong it makes her a hero.

Really love more versatile power use but tangle really is limited in fact she can't do much with her tail besides binding and manueverbilty

>>147131152
At this point in the comic, no. She wasn't a planned character or at least not meant to take some major role. She was just ABT's OC that he drew most often, to that end she was also turned into just Jewel's secretary for the longest and she was seen as a popular background character and ABT drew her a lot in his spare time. Whole comics, whole jokes, so eventually Ian or the other staff decided that since she was so popular she could just be an actual character and talked to ABT about how she should be done and shit like that resulting in her pretty much gaining full persistence.

Something to remember is that the art team and color team have very little to do with the core writing team as they can and sometimes will just do whatever they please like with a certain background that, as long as SEGA approves things it will fly on though

>>147123833
Have an arc that solves her and Kit, their programming is undone by the end and they're given the choice to return to their old lives, maybe not even a choice but they lose their memories as clones. Done. No more Surge and Kit and if need be, they still have their powers so some later writer can come in and try to make something interesting with them.

>>147131090
Whisper's bare shoulders...

>>147131222
>She wasn't a planned character
Comics/arcs are often planned months ahead of time so it is possible that she was planned to be important later from that point.

>>147124870
>the only real option to with her is to make her have features she doesn't have
Then why not just give her big tits, who cares

The thing about them I always thought was retarded is they're built so much better as matches against the other character. Kit would be better against Sonic since he uses water and can cover a wide area around himself and Surge works better against Tails because she can outmaneuver him and potentially fuck with his machines using electricity. The matchups they have in the story feel so forced in comparison.

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>>147131216
I see the issues on different sides: Tangle was showcased as just adventure crazy and problems with not really planning anything even early on for her small adventures near home where jewel needed to save her, making her issue less that she's not ready more she's too reckless about what she's gonna do which matches sonic but unlike him she doesn't have the speed to just get out of the situation. Meanwhile Surge has the power to match but the ego over takes the skill unlike sonic leading to her failing in much the same as well as a dependence on aid at points like back with metal sonic which is why she had kit, Starline built in the need for her to always have some weak spot needed to be covered. IT results in both being more the capable of actually being up there around him but failing due to just a massive experience difference that each could cover as a larger unit as whisper between both has all of these things but lacks the ego and power of both, far more emotionally driven far quicker than sonic.

I like their position to be a lot closer to more of what the chaotix were supposed to be: Alternative heroes, a group that could pull it off but need team work to make it all actually fall in while sonic would be a glorified one man army like he often is. Surge has been confronted more than once with the fact that she can't match sonic, at least not alone, but the idea of her sole goals becoming usurp the title of hero and actually holding some weight to it by first costing with those with marginally better rep before all 3 end up in a spot where they beat sonic to something results in a situation of the idea that it's no longer about beating him but staying even and ahead of the rest.

Surge only wants heroics to prove a point, Tangle wants it for the sake of adventure, Whisper just uses it to achieve a means to an end of finishing Mimic; One unified goal to chase the idea of heroism beyond sonic for different ends.

>>147131152
Yeah like one small bubble I believe but still doesn't warrant the page and way she's put in it as this is long before her first story. This is literally when zavok is still around so even before the bad guys and the zavok invasion that's like 3 years before diamond cutters anon.
>>147131195
Yep, this exactly and you are right most of lanolin story will stay in abt head and twitter as it doesn't fit and would waste comic time on her trauma and lame backstory. My biggest fear is Abt will one day go pender with Lanolin like pender and lara su. He'll sperg out about how Lanolin is idw kek.

Also yeah I fucking hate that comic as it makes no sense, she has never hated sonic in fact he saved her life in the first or second issue. So where does all this surge tier hate come from "he could end it all" like wtf edge lord "I'm a middle schooler and this is deep" shit is this. It feels so out of left field from her making coffee with shadow to her hating on sonic and her bs trauma with her mom. An yeah really almost wish he did this a bit where he made her the villain or unintentional dictator type. She thinks the heroes are bad and need to be controlled or monitored and slowly pushes them out then boom realizes she needed them cause normies can't out last or beat eggman with just wisp or tech as he'll just make better stuff. But really that's if I had to find a way to work with her honestly just axe her she was best as just a oc.

That she does makes her seem like the inverse of surge, a brat or bitch that hates on everyone else not noticing her own shit writing and failings like how they forgive her bs leader ship. Also fact she flipped whisper and called "Silver inexperienced/not a soldier" But while she was in sundresses begging for sonic and co to save her silver was fighting in the forces war lol. she comes in as if she is some general but is a nobody that joined during metal virus and didn't even help where does she get the balls to talk down to others.

>>147122225
Bully/abuse fetish with surge is definitely canon

>>147131252
She specifically wasn't, Ian's the one who admitted that before as he was questioned on why her or how and he explained that it was a decision that eventually just happened. Much like how Tangle and Whisper ended up as a duo after one fine mini series and the idea of them as a team just stuck because the reception was positive enough.

Surge should have sex with Shadow

I don’t know why scourge is sometimes called a parody, despite everything, he’s taken seriously as a character in the comics
>>147131034
I just like evil punk, does there also need to be a deep explanation for why I like Eggman too?

>>147126062
>and it's not like Sonic really needs any more rivals.
That was the worst part of it to me when she was first introduced, it was straight up Ian removing any sense of nuance and subtlety and just saying
>HEY GUYS YOU KNOW HOW SONIC HAS ALL THESE MIRROR MATCH RIVALS IN THE GAMES
>WELL WHAT IF I DO THAT BUT UH
>LIKE INSTEAD OF MAKING A STORY ABOUT IT, THE STORY IS JUST THE TROPE!
They keep fucking doing this and it always damages the story beyond repair, they keep taking tropes from the series and saying THIS IS A TROPE THAT HAPPENS A LOT IN THE SERIES and give themselves a big pat on the back for pointing out the obvious, completely oblivious to the fact that they've just ruined the characters for having to consciously perpetuate that trope even to the active detriment of their world. Pontaff was cringe but even they didn't do this as much.

>>147131276
I respect it but seems you really just want surge to be a hero on the diamond cutters. Which I know will happen but I'm 100% against it and probably will skip those issues as it'll mark the end of most interesting stuff til they add a real villain.

Uh not really with whisper she just a good character she's not doing it for mimic he was in prison for many of her good deeds. She more wants to kill eggman/stop him because of all the people he hurt.

I mean Idk we have a trio now and it sucks so I feel you are putting to much faith into them to make the diamond cutters good anon. But again maybe and you make some good points but just that I hate that it would make a few things canon

>No such thing as evil females when it come to new idw ocs
>Surge fully good
>Diamond cutters are here to stay
>They crybaby squad are all together

Also what would this do to kit though???

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>>147118010
Scourge is objectively better, Surge is an embarrassing waste of space who gets a pass because le girl. You know, like Amy.

Whisper ruined Tangle’s character and I don’t know if she can recover from it

>>147131316
You mean tangle ruined whisper's character?

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>>147131277
I often read her more as a situation of, from the 1 panel she had in the comic about losing shit during the fight, she wants someone else to blame. Eggman is the obvious answer but then she keeps looping it back to the idea that Sonic is allowing it simply by not always being on him, by her own logic she should hate EVERYONE or at minimum: Amy, Tails, Knuckles, the Chaotix, and Shadow as each of not most are all just as strong as sonic and a few could even take him on equal grounds yet ABT never addresses this mentality and instead fills any other comics with this idea that the comic background Lanolin is free while the new one is now bearing angst over having to be in the main fold. What originally just started as 'tired worker girl who has to deal with high energy people' turned into a character who hates the hero borderline for the sake of it.

Again, part of it also draws from the fact that for no real explained reasons, he draws her and makes her either look like a silent schizo who's hearing voices or tired from everything despite doing nothing majority of the time even compared to a character like jewel.

>>147131321
Tangle becomes a crying stand for Whisper when she’s around

>>147130560
Somehow the characters in IDW have all of their best feats offscreen

>>147131331
Yeah really someone said make Lanolin jewel's assistant or inverse it make lanolin amy's old assistant. So a mix of taking on the military side of things while jewel does the admin stuff. But her always being tired just feels like waifu bs to make her the cool tired military girl.

Also I get what you are saying she really is strange as she basically is a massive sonic hater for no reason and yeah like you said what is this comic/paneling. What does those last few mean why is she behind the panel??? like is she feeling irrelevant forgotten but why she asked for help. Makes her seem schizo as if she's a boy that cries wolf she desires to be a mc and hero and got it but realizes she is still a side character even in the main group. But again that is just interpretation we can't know as ABT has forced her into a stagnant story. So no matter his plan not much we can do and these side stories do more damage to her than good to the real fans at least that don't blindly forgive her or simp for her sheep tits. Like it makes her so weird as you said what is her thing does she hate all those with power? blame sonic hate the heroes for having powers but not doing more? what is it and why?

>>147131301
Scourge being a "parody" always sounded like an excuse to me.

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>>147131304
>Also what would this do to kit though???
That's the point anon, Kit is the unironic perfect Villain. From back when he had a scuffle with Tails he was showcased to have the more violent mental issues as well as actual hidden powers that were promptly forgotten the moment Evan took up reins. The idea that the less stable of the two fails to agree to this whole hero shtick and goes off to fulfill what their original goal was sounds better than having him constantly just be behind surge and only an assist for her to do anything most of the time since he's also the brains of half the plans they've done so far. Surge sits closer to Shadow in my eyes of anti hero but still adjacent to at least base level justice, think sorta moon knight kinda I guess(maybe Jake mostly) and that allows her to stand closer to heroic while being as free to take any other action on the spectrum.

Whisper, to date, only plans to dome eggman as either a salty kill(like in MV after Tangle went) or as a post Mimic operation since Eggman is the last tie to what ruined their team at the end of the day. He's on the list to kill but after a long time since Sonic and most of his friends wouldn't allow it. The only reason Mimic even got to go for jail was due to Tangle talking her down because she technically believes he had at least some guilty conscious over his actions based on their conversation and the mini series, She was going to kill him when they caught him that day but was solely talked into just jailing him. She's only ever made the one attempt on eggman's life.

The current villain is still just eggman and almost always gonna be Eggman sadly as even Starline was under a bit of contract that no villain can really be smarter or better than eggman meaning you only get people like clutch and R&T as side villains for IDW.

The issue comes down to most of these characters not getting their own stories anymore and they aren't in most big stories either so they widely do nothing.

>>147131076
That's basically what happened, yeah.

>>147131321
Tangle become Whisper's literal shoulder to cry on.

>>147131122
Surge's extra finger...

>>147131195
Never liked the comic book logic of "it's the hero's fault the villain exists!" outside of maybe a few times, it's usually lazily justified and it shoves all the responsibility on some specific hero rather than giving the people who also have a problem with the villain agency and making them actually do something about the villain themselves. There's sort of an argument to be made where Sonic defended Tinker but that was back when Tinker was technically innocent, normally Sonic isn't saving Eggman from anything and in the games he pretty much always leaves him for dead.

Whisper should enter a room, find Shadow there, break down crying, and Shadow just leave because it's weird.

>>147131403
Heh must be ai.
>>147131396
I don't know if Ian's og idea would be better but at least he wanted her to stay a villain and not just another member of the crying lesbian posse.
>>147131394
True I suppose and really do want kit to get to actually do something and taking surge away would definitely help him grow.

True really would like a new villain liked the cell idea but alas that's just cause I say clear the board and kill kit and surge they are to damaged to be intimidating or useful anymore. They've been so inconsistent and all over, and they're barely 2 years old.

Also really you seem quite into hero surge but it really does bank on idw making both her but diamond cutters more interesting and fun when I'd be 1000% ok with no more diamond cutters like ever. I'd be cool with cameos like tangle and sonic and amy or whisper silver and blaze but focus on the ocs I'm so over it sadly

>>147131415
But since Sonic does not rape eggman, he comes back so he is at fault

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>>147131374
Ironically ABT doesn't seem to have as much input on her comic counterpart, seemingly more only questioned on occasion after the initial talk of how to depict her and approving what writing did get done. Whatever he's trying to say about her has always been pretty fucking unclear to me especially with how he draws old Lanolin and then once has a piece where he pretty much openly says the old smile was technically her faking it back in one of the panels where she watches sonic run off. The issue back with why fans disliked her was that even IF she had grounds to toss out accusations in that bad issue, she pretty much acted like she knew more than everyone else around her down to pretty much telling people like Whisper and Silver, both of whom were in that very war, they are fools and not given even an ounce of though that she may be wrong, she had some massive ego with no real credits and even just said shit was silver's fault from the first accident as if he were some new guy who just showed up. It just came off as weird for someone who basically just showed up, acted like a dick for every page she is shown after becoming a team member and has virtually no grounds any one that wasn't Tangle technically.

She's just a strange anomaly more often than not

>>147131416
Jobber v Jobber

>inb4 "but long running franchise won-"
Yeah yeah i've heard it, this is just thinking.

i can understand people getting upset at Sonic, but where's the people clamoring for Shadow to kill Eggman in the world? Muh eliminate big threats but still hasnt done for eggman, what a fraud!. If Lanolin or Surge were smart, they'd team up with him to kill his ass for real. Hell, Espio too, he'd be up for it.

>>147131415
Yep it's what I said about scourge end being better, as they actually flip the bs "we're not so different you and I/all it'll take is one bad day etc" All these tropey it's the heroes fault or the hero isn't so good bs and says that it's just a cope to make themselves feel validated in not being a decent person.

But with ABT it's to validate Surge's tantrum and lanolin's edgelord arc on twitter.
>>147131432
Jesus Christ, this dude really is making those old sonic comic angst deviant art comics at this point isn't he?

I feel this is true but not true as lanolin has been getting to much control for him to not be able to have some say. She's already a leader, experienced soldier, got a whole arc where she was forgiven for her incompetence. It feels like she's getting a lot of love and weird amount of focus for someone not being given some extra care.

She is she'll definitely not last even her simps are usually memed on by other sonic fans. I feel like she's the last straw for the ocs, as I think every oc after her and surge will get more scrutiny for everything because of the last two being massive flops. Also yeah that dick stuff was weird as she again started long after all of them, she was a normal girl in issue 1 or 2 but now is a "experienced soldier" who is harder than silver who literally was in the forces war for 2 years I belive and comes from a dark future where he survives on his own but she's so much better than him.

A friend of mine memes about how man if silver had been there he could have lifted the air ship, or how they threw out silver for a nobody when he could beat the entire diamond cutters in less than 10 secs. Like so weird she can talk down to someone who could turn her inside out, and her power is a fuckin wisp. I'd be like please join my team, though a good idea is like you mention reveal lanolin is scared of powers or a racist to people with super skills or the main cast because of how dangerous they are and unpredictable.

>>147131432
Yeah Lanolin is so messy. If she had some backstory like some memory that drives her to always feel like she needs to be right, that could be something since she could work towards getting over it. OCs were supposed to be the injection of character deoth the comic needed because the games characters can't be developed, but instead they're written as shallow as the games characters and written like they're being made upnas they go along with no clear plan in sight.

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>>147131424
I see it less about banking IDW does them justice and more sets what the current precedent has been: Tangle, Whisper and Surge have marked the only decent and gameplay interesting cast so far and as such are even the only ones made for both Speed battle, SRB2, and possibly Speed sim(Tangle is there at least), in the best case scenario, Tangle manages to drag the other two into more involved roles and keep their popularity high as well as keeping them as more recurring since all 3 from most points are actually good when the writers aren't busing retreading whisper crying like back during the summer issue where they were having fun or the last half of the riders arc where Whisper wasn't being a baby for a total of a few pages to almost a full issue. Things were good back in the mini series and that was kinda the honest to god last time before they became the DCs and forced in Lanolin that Tangle and Whisper were really relevant. For a multitude of issues they aren't around and aren't often even getting to do anything which is mostly a waste over half the time. Hell it's funny that before Lanolin joined and before Evan took hold, Tangle and Whisper were fine and tears where pretty much done past the whole MV arc and even the summer and annual had both just doing fun things.

The issue ends up tying back into an unnecssary third that didn't add anything to a decent dynamic and a more glaring issue of Whisper and Mimic: both are built on the grounds of both using more explicit kill weapons and being more about one taps in a comic where even blood isn't really an option so both are forced to do basically nothing for action issues. A large portion of their cool factor can't exist and stuff like even Riders moments where they do get to be cool but only for a few pages is where the issue stems: They aren't in any of the action so they can't keep having actual fun with them. Evan made Whisper suck so her Surge redemption arc could exist

>>147126893
>Fanservice woman with 0 personality
That’s even worse than current Surge.

>>147131472
>experienced soldier
That's the thing, she's literally the least experienced. In fact I'm pretty sure even Tangle is more of a veteran.
>got a whole arc where she was forgiven for her incompetence.
More like a whole page.

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>>147131472
>A friend of mine memes about how man if silver had been there he could have lifted the air ship
This one is ironically a SEGA issue, Silver is only strong in a few games and only creative in mostly 1, most of his largest cred comes from his 06 fight with Sonic but a much larger portion from Archie where he was this big player and always doing so much shit since he had his own story going on. You then have him in IDW where somehow lifting a giant hammer or stopping a fish are leaving him winded or giving most of the credit to someone else(Amy or Whisper), it also goes into why he even did that retarded lift chairs shit instead of just grabbing mimic and then running off with him while grabbing or calling whisper to jet.

Most common sense, at least for me, says that the main reason he was even used was that if Tangle was the one who he told, she'd have gotten whisper and they'd have told Lanolin all the same that she has to at least abide by letting whisper truly verify it isn't him. Because Tangle is ironically the only other character that actually knew Mimic at the time since NOBODY ever seemed to spread word that there was some shapeshifter out and about after he bolted from jail. Silver was made the butt of the moment just so they could take him off the board and force the plot along to let mimic actually stay. Better writing would have just had it be Silver and maybe Tangle since there would be less reason to believe them overall or have whisper fake giving up on it to then tell Tangle she knew what she saw and regroup with Silver later since around that point lanolin also pulls some group vote excuses on them.

The issue of Silver is just a different matter as it somehow ties right into how they use metal, always made the tool to prop up anyone else and almost never in his ONLY major form of power Neo, often just a jobber for the sake of it these days.

>>147131489
She is as she at least been protecting her town even if she was barely higher tier badnik tier at the start but she helped with neo metal and actually fought in metal virus.

I meant a arc revolving around a massive failure and dumb leader stuff then instantly forgiven

>>147131544
There is honestly no good reason for Silver to be around at all. Problems arise every second he does. Mid dude they refuse to stop using even if it's contrived.

>>147131577
Again, it's a SEGA issue, they refuse to allow the comic or otherwise to talk about his future let alone explore it out of surface visual and changed even his methods for getting to the past to being random ass portals that just show up and that the sole reason he was even still there after the MV is a portal sent him back and his ride NEVER came back after so he's been bumming in the past since then with no goals or real aims as of current.

>>147131599
I still don't think exploring his future would make him that better, but it's crazy that even how he time travels is always up to debate and confusing. What a mess.

>>147131547
show me where, when, and what she did. Because I know for a fact she did not do shit in metal virus.

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>>147131613
Exploring his future actually makes him and it have some actual weight since at these points he just shows up sometimes. Back in archie for example, his entire direction was go back and find out why the future sucks and fix it, he'd get moments of mentorship, have to do research and look for any information to get even half a clue and then he'd go back with what info he had to try and fix things. Having him show up usually meant something of possible importance as going to come to pass or that the future is still seemingly doomed by unknown forces. It would also be a bit nice since the very game that created him made his story more interesting to see as you got to see and hear about just how much of a shithole the future was meaning it felt all the more interesting to watch him at least try to fix it. Back in 06 he even specified there were people out there just living in that hellhole and he wanted to make things better for them.

In IDW, we've seen glimpse of a world that looks real fucking empty almost every time we see it, no people even in the good future and no real indication of just what was really saved here as it all still looks like a ghost town. Not even a home for Silver seen. Plus, not it's a weird side question of why the future can fluently change but he never does, nothing of his memories or life change based on his actions; He simply feels disconnected from his own timeline since he changes it on a whim and since it seems like he has no friends there doesn't really care if everyone is really back or if some people just don't exist anymore because of his actions. he future just doesn't feel like a real place

>>147131681
The future is more his present, and it's just a concept really. And how can you explore something that could change at any moment? They can give any lame excuse, but he's only around because of his creator. Idk but I think in IDW they should keep him the fuck away from Blaze. Just terrible in it's own right. Why can't be aimless just by himself?

>>147131652
I meant tangle not lanolin anon, the second part was referencing lanolin. I was agreeing tangle is more experience but she's the rookie of the idw squad. everyone else was in forces war but tangle was still getting into being a hero/adventurer but even she is better than lanolin who was a normie at the start of idw

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I'm unsure if I'm more impressed or depressed by the amount of analysis people are putting into these terrible characters from an awful comic.