I'm interested in seeing your takes, /co/ - you had to create a series that incorporated one major element from each incarnation of TMNT - be it a character dynamic, who's on what side, origins, atmospheric beats like City at War gang messes, etc, what would you take? Conversely, what's one failing from each series you'd want to avoid? Additionally, what ground do you think hasn't been covered by the franchise yet that might be fun to flesh out?
>>147132269Probably not a popular opinion considering the rest of the consistency mess regarding IDW's character writing, but I think they were onto something regarding pairing Karai with Bebop & Rocksteady. I think they made surprising foils to each other as Shredder's underlings. I wouldn't mind seeing another crack at that with another writer wasn't Tom Waltz/Sophie Campbell/soon-to-be Jason Aaron.
>>147132269Probably just tmnt 2003 but in higher def
>>147132269To give Rise of TMNT any one thing to its credit (besides animation, its only unambiguous saving grace), it did try something new with Raphael. But trying to skip to a non-Leo turtle becoming leader without an arc about it was a mistake. They need to do setup if they want to try that again.
>>147132269I kind of want a new cartoon or movie to use the IDW reincarnated ninja souls idea
my ideal tmnt would be them going up against the mutation of the weekthat and the foot, international crime, urban legends, and aliens.
>>147132269>Additionally, what ground do you think hasn't been covered by the franchise yet that might be fun to flesh out?They tried evil Casey, so how about an evil April? Might help the writers figure out how to justify her existence in the narrative in the long term, something a lot TMNTs struggle with.
>>147132269I'd just make TMNT 2003 but remove all the mystic bullshit elements and end it at season 4.
>>147132269Just have April be a hot white chick againWe have had 2 black Aprils and they both belong in the trash bin
>>147132269Splinter is Hamato Yoshi from the 87 cartoon. It works so much better in every way.
They're black coded so they should live in the hood and love fat asses.
>>147132269Remove AprilRemove KaraiRemove Hun
>>147132269One of the biggest problems with every TMNT is, four is too many when Leo and Raph are pretty much the same character. Their conflicts over who should be leader are never interesting and always feel like they go on for way too long, just fold them into one turtle. Give Donatello the sais since they're a complicated weapon and he's the smart nerdy one.
>>147133891The problem isn't that Raph and Leo are the same, but that Raph has too much personality and Leo has too little and yet every single person working on a TMNT series wants to do a Raph and Leo rivalry where Raph simultaneously wants to call the shots and run away because he's a big angry toddler who doesn't actually have a reason for wanting to lead. It's not like he wants power or respect or authority. It's just a tired cliche that's been overdone so many times that people expect it to be part of every TMNT story.
>>147133850Those are the only 2 girls of note in the franchise though. Who are we gonna rely on for fanservice, trying to redesign Venus again?
>>147134099mona lisa
>>147134099Why do we need femoids in a male-oriented franchise again?>muh fappingI want action and violence, whores only distract from that.
>>1471322692003 Tmnt but no Utrom Shredder and less flip flapping on Karai
>>147132533IDW does a lot of things right and either fucks them up horribly or squanders them entirely. Somehow, Bebop and Rocksteady are as close to perfect as they've ever been in any TMNT series ever in the IDW run.
>>147132269I enjoyed the 2012 iteration best. God dynamic, we got a distinction between Raph and Leo as well as Leonardo actually being a character. Their Mikey was annoying but he had his moments Not to mention some of the best choreography since the 90s movies I’d have cut out the April/Donnie shit though.
>>147134639It's another example of TMNT getting some things right and fucking up others. Like>Fantastic Splinter who isn't pushing some pacifist bullshit>April and all her utrom DNA bullshit drags the entire show down for entire seasons
>>147135010https://youtu.be/OOx869TPPUE?si=jFA0Gan6OHcO48WgThis quote will live in my head forever
>>147135069So this Splinter watched Roadhouse?
>>147135082And Drunken Masterhttps://youtu.be/5rwFKYjAA5I?feature=shared
>>147132269Go back to the classic, the edge and the colorless.
>>147132269i think an full length anime is what i'd love to see next. tonally like the 90s film balancing comedy campness and really dark themes.
>>147135104I wish I liked the rest of the show more, because it really does have some amazing stuff going for it. Just buried between some bad ideas.
>>147136148Anime stylized or made by Japanese?
>>147136148After Edgerunners, I'd love to see Trigger do a TMNT mini-series.
>>147134067It depends on how you write it, I always viewed it as Raph associating protector with leader
>>147138379Looks like she's has it slightly cocked to the side
>>147132269>Conversely, what's one failing from each series you'd want to avoid?Villains that don't stay dead and Turtles who have massive hang-ups about permanently dealing with their enemies. They don't have to kill every purse snatcher, but IDW's insane aversion to even imprisoning their bad guys is nonsense, and Tom Waltz's obsession with redemption arcs that never manifest needs to never happen again.Shredder and the Foot being a long-term threat is good, as long as it ends with his eventual death. Krang never fully going away or dying is not. Krang and The Utroms are genuinely not that great as antagonists and the more removed from the story they can be, the better the story will be.If Karai is going to be around, she needs to be an anti-hero at best, and not given mile-thick plot armor. No one truly likes Karai so much that they want to see her do horrendously evil things and then face no consequences ever.Likewise, do something for real with April and Casey. Not just romance, specifically, but they are allies and important secondary characters. Give them something to do and firmly establish them as family to the turtles. Also, no more black April. It doesn't fucking work. It never worked. It never will work.
The biggest issue with Leo is that at best, he's just the one who has it most together and as a result has fewer quirks and idiosyncracies than the others because he has to be the responsible leader. Which is lame, but understandable. He's not really all that relatable, nor is he especially entertaining, because usually he's just the center in perhaps the worst way possible. He's defined by that role.At worst, he's a scapegoat, a strawman. In that one CGI TMNT movie, he was molded into an antagonist for Raph. The writer was clearly a massive Raphfag, and needed Leo to be the source of Raph's anger and frustrations. He's Raph's punching bag, that's his central role.In many ways, for better or for worse, Leo is basically Scott Summers. He either represents the most boring elements of leadership, or to worst elements. And his rivalry with Raph usually only really benefits Raph, but never benefits Leo. Raph tends to undergo good character development as a result of his rivalry, but Leo usually doesn't get as much out of he deal. Leo's a foil, Raph is the main character.Speaking of "main characters", there's an element where Leo is usually the turtle with the least amount of focus in films. In the first New Line film, Raph was the main character. In the second one, I can't quite recall who got the most focus but it definitely wasn't Leo. In the third, Mikey seemed to be the centerpiece. In the CGI film, it was Raph again. I haven't really seen the Bay films. Although, for what it's worth, the New Line films did make a bit of an effort to give Leo a "moment" in each. In the first, Leo was the only one who was able to wound Shredder. In the third, Leo gave that kid CPR and had a 1v1 duel with the daimyo. I think Leo having these moments is in part to make up for the fact that his weapons are a pair of swords meaning he doesn't actually get to do a whole lot in fights. Swords can only cut things, and he's not actually allowed to cut anyone.
>>147138853The problem with Leo can be summed up pretty easily: There's never been any version of the TMNT that are shown to be too irresponsible or too uncoordinated to badly need a leader. Donnie is too smart and Mikey is too easy going. Neither of them are, under normal circumstances, run off and do something that Leo would otherwise have the power to stop them from doing. That just leaves Raph occasionally being an idiot and rushing off to almost get himself killed, and he's too angry to listen to Leo or Splinter anyways, which is how he almost gets killed so many times.This means Leo's burden of responsibility and leadership often comes off as total bullshit. They trained together all their lives. They know each other and what they can do. They don't need their brother to be a nanny to them. They need a strategist who knows how to use their unique talents to their fullest potential, and then trusts them to get their jobs done. Too fucking bad that every TMNT wants to do this "Raph and Leo butt heads about who gets to be in charge" thing, every fucking time.
>>147139495Well it's because, again, it's really for Raph's benefit. Raph as a character benefits immensely from Leo being what he is. Without Leo, Raph doesn't have a target of his frustrations. Most writers favor Raph so they need Leo to uplift him.
>>147138853>In the second one, I can't quite recall who got the most focus but it definitely wasn't Leo.It was Raph again. He had that sub-plot of breaking off from the group to find the Foot hideout with Keno only to get captured.
>>147139623It still ends up as a plot contrivance and I don't know what we're supposed to get from it anymore.
>>147140244It is what it is. People tend to have a hard time breaking away from their biases. If anything, they tend to embrace them. Writers all the moreso. When a fan of the Ninja Turtles gets to write them, they'll often write what they want to see. And because their favorite turtle is Raph, it usually ends up poorly for Leo. Their feud exists for Raph's sake, because Raphfags just want to see him vent his frustrations, then grow and mature.
>>147132269More supporting mutants.
>>147134164Why can't we have both like OP's image?
>>147141161The climate of the west just isn't ready for ryona or catfights, anon. Besides, it's hard to write action with girls without going full gurl power - that's been the case even back in the 90s/2000s.
>>147138853>he's not actually allowed to cut anyonerobot mook trope (foot soldiers) safely bypasses thisthat is unless anons prefer the foot human
>>147139495>Donnie is too smartIn fact, Donnie is more of a ninja than Leo, or even Splinter. He can do a lot of non-combat but important things and he has more ways to gather intelligence. Ninja is basically a swiss army knife.
>>147141255Probably ties into what >>147138694 said about not being able to do anything to the actual villains. Hell, 2003 Leo was only allowed to cut Shredder's head off when it turned out his entire body was a robot suit.
>>147141338I'd settle for them getting their villains arrested or taken by the EPF or something. IDW let Stockman perpetrate massive crimes against humanity, and his punishment is he gets to become a celebrity hero of New York and eventually elected as Mayor. Not arrested. Not harmed. Not even made to fear for his life if he steps out of line.
>>147133265I would prefer Leo died at some point. That can give other three brother and even Splinter some story development about how they try to overcome Leo's death and inherit some of his, whether it his sword, behavior, or his leadership.
>>147138853I feel like something Rise and 2012 did right was take cues from the 80s show where Leo can be rather loud and dramatic in his heroism which contrasts against Raph's levelheadedness and sarcasm.I don't think the problem with Leo is that he's stoic or that the rest of the Turtles aren't irresponsible enough, it's that Leo has the same problem Scott Summers has where they're both closer to the classic idea of a Hero - not so much Superman, but more like Doc Savage and The Shadow. A man in control of his emotions and capable of expressing himself without being ruled by his feelings. That sort of character is only popular when they're allowed to actually DO things and leave the audience in awe and admiration. They need to be the best person out of the cast and serve as a role model for both the other characters and the audience. They can't overshadow the rest of the cast or be invincible, however. They can still make mistakes and be human in even silly or shameful ways, really.
>>147141645To give an example:>The Shadow is a prankster and constantly pulls practical jokes on his agents and even extends this to crooks he interrogates (pretending he's cut off a criminal's leg only to reveal he's just tied it to the bed the crook is in)>Despite being able to survive all sorts of perilous adventures, The Shadow constantly gets his ass kicked in the process>He's incredibly petty and likes to be the center of attention, and will get envious or pouty if he's upstaged>Doc is a super-genius and a living Renaissance man capable of mastering anything>but he's shitty at romancing women and doesn't really get how to talk to the opposite sex>Doc occasionally brainwashes/lobotomizes crooks into becoming productive and friendly members of society, something that has backfired a handful of times
>>147132269April gets a bitchy rival in the news business that cares less about the story and more about the presentation and getting there first.
>>147132269The first 100 odd issues of the IDW book were actually really solid
>>147141497The best ending for IDW TMNT will be the turtles and some of their friends leave to the earth and go to Dimension X. Like most of the protagonist of Wuxia novel, they chose to lives in seclusion. Especially since Raph can fuifill his dream of becoming a farmer. Leo can explore things beyond combat and leadership, or continue his magic training. Let Karai and Foot Clan continue on the wrong path and eventually perish.
>>147133768Bebop is ACTUALLY black. Rocksteady is white. Fuck off and take your tumblr lingo with you.
>>147141863They really weren't, man. I've read that run 3 times and the first 50 barely hold up.
>>147133321We don't need all 4 turtles to have a past life. For me, only Donnie and Mikey is Hamato Yoshi's sons. Donnie is also a eldest son. He will be more serious and responsible than other Donnie incarnations, and he has a bit of a rivalry with Leo because Yoshi/Splinter chooses Leo as the leader. Raph is Shredder's first son. The story between him and Shredder will have more a greek tragedy and predestination.Only Leo is just a mutant turtles with no past life. He show curiosity about huamn things and like to study. But that doesn't mean he is mroe human, even Leo himself knows that he just a mutant turtle. Due to his nature, he can't fully empathize with all humans or even other mutants, outside from his family and a few human friends like April. But this is not all bad because it also makes it easy for him to see through some people's lie, especially Old Hob and Karai.
>>147141871If they hadn't completely botched every concept they introduced and then flaccid-rebooted the comic, I'd say they could have done would be to have the slightly older, slightly wiser Turtles set down roots in Mutant Town, take on apprentices, and keep up the tradition they started: Protecting the city as ninjas who strike hard and fade into the shadows, whether that means beating up muggers, gangs, or whatever supernatural shit crops up in New York.That, or I guess they could have doubled down and had the After the Bomb future happen, and they go on to found their own village, lead their clan, and just try to survive, or something. Just without the shit where all of them end up sad and alone, dead, or insane.
>>147133548>>147141854I think I like this idea
Tales had a pretty good thing going with a team of rival mutants who aren't foot clan or one-off threats... Well, they were one-off, but they got multiple episodes, so not quite Mutant of the Week fodder to sell more action figures.
>>147132269>each incarnationThat's a tall order.
