Besides the obvious IRL stuff with Kangz, what went wrong for this and MCU Ant Man in general?
>>147175703Needed more ANTS
>>147175703just wasn't written to well and sorta didn't compliment the source material it was drawing from on top of being just a sloppy, boring film with effects bloat. The setting has potential and some cool visuals but the writing doesn't compliment it and frankly Psycho-man should've been the villain instead of wasting Kang.
>>147175703It was mid. Which to be fair so were the 1st 2 ant man movies. The problem is the MCU struggling to build after Endgame. The MCU D+ shows weren't hitting and Doctor Strange 2 was a miss. It suddenly fell on Quantumania to ignite interest in everything coming next. It wasn't able too.
>>147175703The first movie is a heist film.The second movie is completely forgotten.The third movie is AVENGERS LEVEL EVENT and is ultimately a non-thing. Even if the Kang actor didn't do what he did or did not do, it would have been a bloated explosion or trash, that amounted to nothing. Even if the character came back to be the next Big Bad.Thanos didn't do anything for like 20 movies.
>>147175703I think the problem is that the script was better suited for the Fantastic Four than it was for Scott Lang. People like Scott for being a relatable guy with special tools. His biggest superpower is creativity and his intellect, the improvisational thief. Quantumania doesn't really allow Lang to do that, it's all weird microverse shit with Janet being the driving force. Though it was cool seeing a marooned Kang achieve so much, and I did like the scene where all the Scott variants worked together under one simple goal to save CassieSpeaking of Kang, how are they going to write him out given everything they've set up? The Council, 2 seasons of Loki, how does Doom fit in to replace that threat?
>>147176537>Doctor Strange 2 was a missMost people still liked it.
>>147175703How am I supposed to take a guy seriously when he's getting his ass kicked by Ant-Man?
It's weirdly high concept
>>147176579The council of Kangs is shown to actually be in the palm of Dooms hand he crushes them
>>147175703It threw out all the unique stuff about the Ant-Man movies for terrible versions of the most generic stuff from the MCU.
>>147176798You know MODOK actually looked good with the protective mask
>>147175703The should’ve focused on the schizoid Antman that bitchlaps Janet.
>>147175703Boring and unironically this >>147176431 and this >>147176579>I think the problem is that the script was better suited for the Fantastic Four than it was for Scott LangMODOK was a waste too
I love Ant-Man, from comics to the MCU but one glaring problem to me in the movies was that they struggled moving past the origin story. Not something unique to them in the MCU, but I think there's something unique to Ant-Man's case.My theory is that they never figured out the right balance between the cast of characters they feature, see the thing is, the movies use characters that fall under the umbrella of the "Ant-Man corner" of the Marvel Universe and while this is fine on paper, there's some problems that come with that.The biggest example to me are the two Ant-Man themselves, since they exemplify best. Hank Pym and Scott Lang are good characters and each one could be considered the definitive Ant-Man but, they by design, are fundamentally different characters and not only that, they were never meant to co-exists in the same story or share the same corner. And that's fine, because that's what a good superhero legacy is, different enough to have a unique voice while sharing common themes.Hank is super scientists who most of his story comes from the pages of Avengers books, dealing with grander than life world ending threats while also dealing with his inner turmoil, sometimes these two coming from the same place. Scott is an ex-con single dad, looking to pay the bills, keep the neighborhood safe and spend time with his daughter. They by design inhabit different corners of the Marvel Universe so, it's natural that when they try to make these characters share a continuous story, they run into problems, especially if there's no real source material to use as a basis. It can be done well and I would say that the Ant-Man trilogy is perfect, on paper. The first movie is the origin story and first contact so the disparity is built-in to the story, the second one tries to find the balance between Scott's grounded goals along Hank's own, third one has them working as a unit and growing as characters to stop something larger than all of them.
Kinda annoyed Black Ant wasn't the foe in Ant-Man 3 nor was he considered for Thunderbolts
F A T I G U EAnt man was Guardians of the Galaxy if you took out the Galaxy and all the characters who weren't Starlord.Paul Rudd was the Adam Sandler of the MCU if being a superhero gave him increasingly less time to be Adam Sandler.Boyd Crowder wasn't even in this one. or maybe he was, who cares.
>>147176905>Black Ant and Lady Taskmaster being buddiesman, MCU Thunderbolts has such a boring lineup, like some of the characters are good on their own but it's such a dull group with no power or personality variety and just 2 supervillains on the team.
>>147176918Thunderbolts is mostly Black Widow leftovers. Fucking shame>No replacement Taskmaster despite the fact that the original was a mind controlled slave>No Abomination because apparently he reformed>No Crimson Dynamo because I guess Armor Wars is still a thing....I think>No Black Ant, because I guess we're just forgetting that Pym Particle sample that was stolenWell I guess US Agent is fine
>>147176784Ant-Man in general shares DNA with Spider-Man's street level antics and the Fantastic Four's high concept adventures, and usually lingers between the two while the two main Ant-Men personify each extreme, this was the logical conclusion to making a series where they share the spotlight
>>147175703>what went wrong for...MCU Ant ManAbsolutely fucking nothing. Even as his own series' plot goes to shit, Ant CHAD will forever be remembered for decking a multiverse-level threat in the face so hard it ceased to exist.
>>147176958yeah like Abomination would've been so easy to put on the group but suppose She-Hulk salted the earth with the Hulk cast. Hell even if didn't have Crimson Dynamo even if that would've been good payoff to the bit in Black Widow you coulda had Titanium Man. Hell of the regular dudes Batroc would've also been fine but he also got killed off, also even if didn't have Black Ant you coulda had Rita Demara having stole the Yellowjacket blueprints/bought that stole Pym sample especially since she was meant to be in the original group before she died in the Crossing.
>>147176579>I think the problem is that the script was better suited for the Fantastic Four than it was for Scott LangYeah kinda, but the point was how unexpected would be for Scott to take on such a huge threat and make him grow in the process but the movie never really lets him do that or gives him the opportunity of choice so his arc feels weird and non-existent. Reading their idea, it sounds good on paper but it's like he didn't know how to materialize it properly or maybe Marvel butchered the thing during production while it also could be that Jeff Loveness' lack of experience as a screen-writer hindered the story.
>>147175703The same thing that happened to al the other bait-and-switch movies of this time.Male main character became a side character in his own film in favor of girl-bosses.It's disingenuous and people don't like that.If you want a superheroine movie then make a superheroine movie with a likeable compelling superheroine.
>>147176969It's not just it being high concept but that being such an integral part of the plot rather than just focusing on the characters. For example GOTG movies did all kinds of weird high concept stuff but it works because it's not really about exploring how a weird flesh satellite works or whatever. Which is I would say is pretty similar to how F4 stories were as well.
>>147176882Absolutely agree with all of this.
>>147175703Part of the issue is the visual appeal of being tiny was lost. Shrinking has to do with relativity. We need normal stuff to compare to so we find it interesting when things that shouldn't be tiny are tiny.Even though they are technically the most tiny possible here, visually we don't experience it.
>>147177189>It's not just it being high concept but that being such an integral part of the plot rather than just focusing on the characters.Oh yeah for sure, the plot and concepts get in the way of the characters and don't give them enough room, except from a few scenes. The script was a mess and it was purely functional, characters go from scene a to scene b because the plot needs to move.
The MCU's problem is:>Like a character? Wait years for a film sequel to ignore the previous one.>Too many plot threads and directions, too many characters.>Too many jokes.>Threats you can't take seriously.>Emotional moments/character arcs lacking.So apply it:>So this film took 5 years to come out. Other plot stuff has just gone to the wayside, Ghost will appear in Thunderbolts etc.>They have to push everyone in the film, especially trying to set up Cassie (Stature). By the time they get to Young Avengers most of these actresses will be hitting 30.>The jokes in this film were so meh.>Darren Cross/MODOK.... need I say more.>Bit epic fight, no casualties or bad things happen?The quantum place just looked boring and generic, no different to Guardians of the Galaxy aliens.
>>147177177Only Granny Janet could be considered a girl-boss and she fucks up cuz the movie is her fault, Cassie is also a fuck up with some moments. Hope almost has negative screen time and she's in the title.
>>147175703you know what else also sucked?THE BLACK PANTHER MOVIES!
>>147176792this i want Doom to completely annihilate them
>>147176764nah it was pretty bad
>>147177011>Ant CHAD will forever be remembered for decking a multiverse-level threat in the face so hard it ceased to exist.My HERO
>>147176798Kang's face kills me everytime
>>147175703I didnt even finish watching this filmHis relationship with his kid was great in the first 2, but in this she was suddenly some uppity sanctimonious bitch with her own suit and it killed my interest in the entire thing
