JUNE 2023 - APRIL 2026https://bleedingcool.com/comics/marvel-announces-their-ultimate-universe-will-end-in-april-2026/
k bye
Good
>>150734249It's joever
>>150734249
>>150734249Rip Bozo
>>150734249Actually laughing my ass off, also they're 100% bringing over the Ultimates OCs over to the 616
>>150734249Maybe it's the end of the Maker part of the Ultimate Universe...hopefully.
>>150734469Genuinely curious because part of me fully believes it was never intended to run past the Maker but the sale have made them think it over
>>150734469>>150734509The ending is just Maker going "fuck it, this experiment failed" and hitting the big red button. The beeyootiful shiny button! The jolly candy-like button!
>>150734249>2023Didn't the Ultimate Universe start 25 years ago?
I hope the next AU doesn't do month fuckery.
>>150734575That's the old Ultimate Universe, Maker made a new one with time travel fuckery before he got locked in his gooncave.
>>150734546Hopefully Kang kills his ass first.
>>150734249This is a good thing. Look at Krakoa; went out like a wet fart because they insisted on milking it until the well ran dry.
is everybody still suckin and fuckin?
>>150734737Stimpy = MakerNarrator = Kang
>>150734778Krakoa was always a fucktarded idea.It never went bad because it was never good to begin with.
>>150734249>Universe without CarolAnd nothing of value was lost
>>150734249Wait, Ultimates Universe was still going?>>150734778Wait, Krakoa isn't going anymore? What happened to their base on Mars and all that other dumb shit?I feel so vindicated in totally tuning out this trash, but I have to admit I'm morbidly curious about how they tied it up.
>>150734778>>150735069said this (more or less) in another thread, but it's relevant here:the entire [post Hickman] Krakoan era is best understood as wish fulfillment for the kind of twitter progressive that annoys even other twitter progressives
>>150735276It ended over a year ago. The current relaunch is boring and nobody cares.
>>150735276>is the line that regularly does well in the sales charts still going?I'd say the most surprising thing here is that Marvel seemingly hates money, but who am I kidding. That's not surprising at all.
She’s coming to 616.Miles bros……we won the harem pool.
>>150734249Business wise it's brilliant. New Ultimate is going to end up being casuals introduction into Marvel comics and comic collecting with a short, evergreen, mostly self contained universe made up of only 20ish trades with an ending like Manga. Sales are already dipping on the monthly books, there's no point in going until the universe collapses on it's own continuity like 1616. No one wants Ultimatum 2.
>>150735475I want it. Even more retarded and edgier.
>>150735276it is unironically wrapped up in about the most "Krakoa must go, their planet needs them" way possible. there's an imaginary perfect future Krakoa that becomes a mutant (supremacist, eugenicist, isolationist ethnostate - but they like to pretend it isn't, or that it's all good now because it now isn't ALSO authoritarian) community and fucks off to the WHR.the quiet damage Krakoa did to the public image of the X-Men brand is difficult to articulate; the people being catered to (see: >>150735302) didn't fucking buy the comic books, and sure as hell didn't get their friends to, either. anyone who wasn't so caught up in the shitty ethnonationalist power fantasy that they could see the swastikas flying about in Hickman's setup were deeply put off by Krakoa. a lot of X-Men fans dropped it, even ones who liked it for the allegory, between Hickman violating characters to set it up (I don't see a way in hell that Jubilee, for example, would be on board with what Krakoa was - so she basically stops being Jubilee, and has her ethical and moral core lobotomized) and the usual suspects on twitter unironically and obliviously deepthroating authoritarian eugenics because they got to wank over their blorbos' outfits (while, uh... not actually buying comics).it might be a decade or more before the X-Men brand recovers, barring them getting VERY lucky with the looming MCU synergy.
>>150735427She's a lesbian though, or is Miles going to become Miley?
>>150734249>April 2026Is this going to be an in-season April Fool's Joke?
>>150734249Absolute chads won.
>>150735558I don't know if MCU synergy has EVER helped a book for the better, but I doubt it. Rivals got more people into comics than the MCU did on it's heyday so it'd be more convenient if they go that route (only speaking in terms of sales)
>>150734249If you told someone to draw an image of a man killing a golden goose but not have animal cruelty this would be itFucking Hell just give DC the win unless they're also ending Absolute in that case they'd both be retarded
>>150735475>>150735520There will never be another Ultimatum. Ultimatum was a lightning in a bottle.It's a combination of a grieving old man in need of therapy and a fucktarded editorial who can't say "no" to shitty ideas (we actually still have that) or tard-wrangle writers.Marvel can do some edgy kill everybody shit, but it won't feel as anything other than childishly petty slop. I'm entirely convinced Loeb was genuinely thinking he's making a dark but heartfelt story that happened to have a lot of death and letting his demons out. Ultimatum is shit but there's an honesty and sincerity to its shittiness.Modern Marvel can only punish you for not liking what they're doing, which we've seen hundreds of times before, it won't impress anybody.
>>150734737Honestly part of me wonder if KANG would do that
Didn't it end 16 years ago
>>150735621MCU synergy is why Zeb is the top writer at Marvel since he worked on the MCU for Feige.
damn RIP to this anon >>150725389
>>150735427Will her dad fuck 616 Surge, too, or is she too old?
>>150734469Hopefully it brings back the actual Ultimate U in some manner close to what it was in the last few years. Which means exiling Miles back to it.
>>150735758If he's Tony, he would. Either death or eternal torture.
>>150735856Only if that universe dies immediately after.
>>150735856They did that in Spider-Men II. 616 Miles emigrated there.
Least worst option for USM 22 revealed.
>>150735475Sales are dipping because the books are bad
>>150735597Insanity to me that Absolute only existed as a counter to the Ultimate universe and yet became a far bigger deal and completely overshadowed Marvel
>>150736025Monthly timeskips killed the storytelling potential.
>>150735558I thought X-fags loved Krakoa. They tend to lean way harder left than other comics fans and Krakoa gave them all the communal free love LGBTQ+ paradise they wanted.
>>150735873No I meant Tony saying fuck it and resetting the Universe
>>150734249Legitimately why are they doing this? Is it not profitable or can they not sustain 2 universes with more than one comic?
>>150735915This would be cool if what >>150736040was saying wasn't true, especially with how bad it is in USM, like this would be neat...if Otto wasn't barely a character in that book, these books are paced horrendously
>>150735558The average Krakoa fan can be found by looking at the X-Men subreddit and it's honestly depressing: a bunch of literal fags and trannies who only care about who's fucking who and which bad bitch queen is slaying with their fashion and sick burns like person on RuPaul's Drag Race and who view everything through the lens of being terminally online social media socialists (the embarassing type who think they'll be teachers and educators in The Revolution). They unironically only think of characters like Archangel and Havok as "himbos" despite that never being a term you could ever use to describe those characters simply because they're handsome, hunky men. Most of them do not actually read the comics, their entire worldview of the X-Men is shaped by pages/panels/discourse on xitter and Reddit, movies and cartoons and whatever agrees with their own gayfag DSA outlook. It is fucking depressing. They love Krakoa because they see it as a bunch of oppressed ethnic homosexual stand-ins overethrowing the racist, homophobic, capitalist system to form a gay socialist utopia that these fucking morons want to live in themselves. A world where they don't work, can engage in all the hedonistic pleasure they want with no consequences and if anyone disagrees then that means they're an evil regressive enemy and can be dealt with as the noble Krakoan sees fit.The X-Men will only recover by just making normal fucking X-Men comics akin to the '80s or '90s and thus doing everything they can to drive these losers away.
>>150736158I agree, the family characters especially suffered from it.
After Absolute Evil I came to the realization that DCs version of an "Ultimate Universe" has more going for it and seems to be better planned
Haha ohno not again
>>150734249Guess I am done with Marvel and superhero comics altogether by April 2026.
>>150735628>>150735597>>150736025
>>150736093the problem is >>150735302 - basically any leftist at all familiar with theory would find Krakoa inherently appalling. but instead, post-Hickman (and post-any chance of a critical examination of Krakoa) the era became both written by and supported by a bunch of immature morons who just wanted a power fantasy romp they could pretend was morally okay when it presented them with a eugenicist ethnostate because "omg the poor oppressed mages i like to imagine myself to be"not a single one of them meaningfully explored the nature of power imbalance, or the inherent disadvantage humans always have in Marvel, or the serious danger humans are always in in 616, because they prefer instead to imagine themselves both superhuman and oppressed by their lessers.it's a fundamentally right-leaning habit that they don't want to confront.
>>150736378>Batman controlling the top 4 best selling spots
>>150736768It's hilarious to me because Krakoa is essentially Mutant Israel but every time this gets pointed out they just stick their fingers in their ears
>>150736811NO BRO KRAKOA IS TOTALLY NOT ISRAEL KRAKOA WAS FOUNDED ON A SENTIENT WILLING ISLAND WITH NO INHABITANTS UNLIKE THOSE COLONIALISTS THAT DISPLACED THE PALESTINIANS AND PLUS THE ARAKKO ARE TOTALLY A STONE AGE ALIEN TRIBE AND COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TO THE NOBLE PALESTINIANS.
What will happen to the Parker kids?
>>150736972Benom takes them in the divorce.
>>150736811what's extra hilarious to me about it is the convoluted bullshit (see: >>150736914) that has to be invented in order to ensure that "uhm, no, they totally didn't have to displace a population of humans with their own culture to take over this perfect island paradise..."...when between Krakoa and Arakko the mutants basically live out the modern rightoid fantasy of "trad" or eugenicist seasteading and/or Martian societies where they're "safe from the woke," complete with 'Superior Tech from Superior Racial Genetics' bullshit.and they celebrate this completely unironically and without even the slightest hint of self-awareness.the mutant cries out over the oppression of x-gene screening (while living on a depraved sex island with portals that screen you for an x-gene just to let you in) as your innocent child born with an x-gene randomly fucking explodes
>>150734249thank god
wtf>>150735915oh hey that's cool
>>150735302it was the last time x-men were interesting as opposed to what they are today - a homage after homage, so fuck you asshole
I thought the Utlimate universe came back, like, 2 years ago. How fucking quick was it for it to die? God damn
>>150736093I liked it, the problem is that /co/ is poisoned by politics. if you like krakoa, you're automatically branded as leftard. People who dislike it, don't care about the x-men, they just want to whine about politics
>>150736768>krakoa was bad because modern politicsclassic, and that's why talking about comics on /co/ is pointless>>150736811so what? it's a fictional comic
>>150737100The worst part about it, is that people who hated krakoa era pretended to be x-fags. Sure the era had flaws, but at the same time the writers line-up was incredible Duggan, Ewing, Gillen, with Allred/Milligan doing their own thing with X-statix, which wasn't related to the main thing, but existed because of the Krakoa's success
>>150737100/co/ and other boards been invaded by /pol/ retards for sometime now. moot could had did the right thing and got rid of /pol/ altogether when he had the chance. But coward caved and bought /pol/ back.
>>150737162to be fair majority of nu/pol/ are tourists who came here during the first trump's term. old school /pol/ was stormfront, but at least it was hilarious. this one is just a pest
“Miles-san. My universe is destroyed. I have no where to go. I am lonely. May I stay with you in your room.”
>>150736811It's pretty obvious. Even the very first issue of HoXPoX has Magneto in Jerusalem. And Hickman originally had the post-humans in the far future being mutants who kept baseline humans in zoos before Joe Q had him change it.
>>150734249>NUmarvel getting BTFO over their tainted characters being put on screen>Tries to revamp with NUfantastic4 into wholesome>finally sells something, but still falls behind DCAt least they're on the right track. Also pascal nailed being the racebent choice. Most people didn't notice. Bravo to the choice makers.
>>150736811>>150736768>Hickman: A mutant ethnostate would be bad>The fans (and other writers): WOW COOL ETHNOSTATE
I'll believe it when I see it. Nu52 still hasn't been deleted despite the constant promises that it has.
>>150737251It's not like things wouldn't still be bad if they didn't have the ethnostate.
>>150737251the context is that x-men were shat for more than 2 decades, first with m-day, then with avengers, and later with inhumans. to have x-men actually win for the first time and pawn the marvel universe after being a punching bag was cathartickrakoa also undid all of the retarded deaths for the sake of shock, as well as utilized obscure characters (like eye-scream) and even more obscure lore. it did feel like a nice epilogue to almost 60-years history. then brevoort came and pushed the reset button and turned the x-men into the unsuccesfull homage to the 90s because X-Men '97, which was actually the best X-Men media in a while, alas
>>150737280it was either an ethnostate, or humans hate mutantkind more than even before, or mutant genocide no 783242
>>150736790great design for the batman books but holy fuck fraction forgot how to write
....unless DC does something stupid Absolute is gonna dominate charts and Marvel Editorial will just be stuck wondering how to compete won't they?
>>150737117You sound like you have no brain activity at all.>durr pictures and colors what wrong what wrong me no uhhhderstandKrakoa arc turned the X-men into an explicitly anti-human entity and Marvel acted like it was a good thing, instead of an absolute perversion of the entire concept. If Krakoa could have ran a few more years, we'd have X-men trying to Final Solution humans the way things were going.
>>150737282>krakoa also undid all of the retarded deaths for the sake of shock...As well as all other death. The fact that mutants were now all immortal god-beings sniffing their own farts in their ethnically clean paradise where they don't have to mingle with subhumans (previously known as regular humans) made them impossible to tell actual stories with.
>>150737077>"but at least it's INTERESTING">>150737117>"stop thinking about politics">"it's just a comic bro"you don't like the shoe being on the other foot, do ya?it will never cease to upset me that Hickman set up a perfect scenario to show X-fans exactly the horrid underbelly of what "mAgEntO wUz rIgHt" idiots are actually clamoring for, only to be undercut by editorial getting cold feet and hiring the very sort of people who needed that reality check the most.>>150737144>fake fansthe only fake ass X-fans were Krakoa-only stans (because they didn't even realize just how many characters Hickman had completely broken just to get Krakoa to exist without having the sane mutants trying to tear it to shreds for being a wet dream straight out of the Brotherhood). it wasn't even new stuff for the X-Men, and they acted (and still act) like it was some truly unheard-of direction to take them. Genosha existed, for one, and Sentinels deciding to kill both humans and mutants (aka humans with x-genes) is LITERALLY THE FIRST PLOT THEY WERE EVER USED IN.the people who hate Krakoa do so overwhelmingly because they believed the X-Men were BETTER THAN THAT, and were fans of the X-Men for it - not fans of the Brotherhood. "fake fans" wouldn't give enough of a shit to care.bet these dumbasses don't even know Bolivar Trask died literally blowing himself and the Sentinels up to protect EVERYONE from them, in the very arc that introduces Sentinels. or that the real reason he went through with making them in the first place was because a time traveling Jean Grey (and his own time-traveling mutant daughter, who the Marvel canon forgets exists entirely) scared the shit out of him by destructively fighting each other.they get all their opinions from people who like the idea of being an X-fan for the "supports the oppressed" clout, but aren't willing to read (or buy) what's on the fucking X-pages
>>15073424999% likely a relaunch in mid-2026, USM (not under Hickman) and UXM are probably going to be the only ones to continue out of the current 5 tho
>>150737282>the context is that x-men were shat for more than 2 decades"my people were oppressed" is never a valid reason to build an ethnostate, because no valid reasons exist. you are not owed adulation for your identity just because some part of it is oppressed - morally, you are owed the adulation that ALL people are owed, and the correction is to give parity, NEVER to simply invert the heirarchy. the heirarchy is the problem.Krakoa promoted a genuinely dangerous and hateful message, and there's a reason it slots in perfectly with the supremacist crowd. "i'm oppressed because i'm (homo) superior" is not a sentiment to be celebrated ever, no matter how upset one is that Marvel editorial had slaughtered their blorbos for cheap misery porn.one can celebrate your blorbos being back without fellating the rhetoric of authoritarian eugenicists, but the vast majority of "Krakoa fans" online made no such distinction (whether they were consciously aware of it or not).
>>150737297Yeah, that's what I said.
>>150736204This is unironically true. 90% of those people are just happy characters are being turned gay. It doesn't matter who, or if it makes sense, they just want everyone to be gay and downvote if you say it sucks.I know I'm outing myself as someone who goes to reddit, but whatever.
>>150736204the subreddit is so ass. like the only person there worth paying any attention to is that one dude who has like an encyclopedic autistic fixation on Beast, and even he's mostly "woe is Beast" over Krakoa absolutely slaughtering the characterization Beast had as an Avenger... because the Avengers were, historically, Hank's actual friends, to the point where the Avengers are more like his adoptive family than the X-Men are.but because Hank's got an X-Gene /r/xmen mostly wants to talk about who and how he fucks (exclusively other people with X-Genes).
>>150735915Hickman lost me...
>>150735915>pitch a traditional Spider-Man story only to immediately go down the Slott memory laneAh yes, the Insomniac classic. Piece of shit.
>>150737282This anon gets it
>>150738006The main villain for most of the first was Mister Negative, it already was Slott slop from the start.
>>150737849>I know I'm outing myself as someone who goes to reddit, but whatever.It's really one of the only places left to discuss the X-Men since places like Newsarama and Comixfan are long dead and CBR has been worthless ever since the Janelle Asselin shit that caused them to nuke the old boards. So if you want to talk about X-Men, your options are /co/, Reddit and xitter and of the three Reddit and xitter are basically one and the same while /co/ has people who have actually read an X-Men comic written prior to Krakoa.
So is Ultimate Spider-Man done done come April, or just renumbered
>>150736811>Just accept that we're housing a bunch of actual murderous villains on our island that in some cases have world ending powers and you aren't allowed to voice your opinion on this.The older I get the more and more I understand why the X-Men deserve a lot of the shit that happens to them
Why so soon though? I read the first 2 volumes of ultimate spiderman and I thought it felt way too slow.
>>150736972>Universe dies>6160 Peter and MJ sacrifice themselves to lifeboat the kids to 616 >616 Peter and MJ have their real kids now and have to figure out how things work now
>>150738757I really fucking hate that it obvious the new characters are just going to get ported the the 616 like Miles did
>>150735915This genuinely makes no sense and only "works" because it happened in the 616, but retards are going to act like this isn't Ultimate Wolverine level of key jangling
>>150735915Also, I imagine this makes Gage the number one suspect for taking over.>>150738757>oh, you think fake kids are ridiculous? fuck you, have some more on Peter now, apologize and accept our geniusIf not for the anti-MJ mandate being overkill enough to rule this out, this would be perfectly believable.
>>150738833Superior is the most anti-Otto story to ever happen, so making no sense is hardly an issue.
>>150736266Because they actually talk to one another about what the plan is, it's really obvious there's ZERO communication going on with anyone working on or there wouldn't be things like Hill completely abandoning any semblance to connectivity to the Maker shit or the constant tug of war that is Ultimate X-Men and Wolverine
Probably not ending.
>>150737251They don't think of it as an ethnostate, they don't even think of it as a non-white metaphor. The current crop of social media/reddit "fans" that came in with Krakoa and a good chunk of the writers during that time viewed the X-Men not as a racial/ethnic thing but as a general leftist utopia.Krakoa, as originally intended, was Mutant Israel whose contradictions would lead to its destruction. Krakoa, as every writer (and White) who pushed Hickman out envisioned it, is a utopian hippie commune based around indulging in hedonistic pleasure to promote warped values of peace, unity and free love before The Man comes to crush it all. This is why there's such a weird focus on sexual hedonism and shit.
>>150738743"mutants are okay but fuck the X-Men" is a take i wish more Marvel civilians had but civilians in most X-Men books basically exist to be bigot strawmen - that got excessively bad during Krakoa and they've carried it into FtA from what i've read of the latter.x-gene-less human characters that supported them historically have been forgotten entirely or given x-genes just to ruin the point of having human supporting characters.as much as i don't like that Hickman never got to really finish out what he was setting up, what he did to Moira for his setup is an absolute travesty.
>>150738933>This is why there's such a weird focus on sexual hedonismnah, it's because that was part of the "folly" Hickman was setting up. the reproduction law was clearly a nod to authoritarian eugenics (i.e. citizen breeding) efforts, which would have tee-ed up plotlines like "gay mutants must still have reproductive sex with the opposite gender to fill our monthly mutant baby quota" and "human children of mutants will be sent to human orphanages by force," as well as other ways such a law inevitably violates personal liberty for the demographic interests of a fundamentally bigoted state.the later writers kept it going (albeit occasionally lambasting it, e.g. via Third Eye - though that is pretty early and might actually be Hickman, i don't remember) largely because horny power fantasy is still power fantasy and X-Men fans are nothing if not horny.you're kinda close to what was going on otherwise, but more in the sense that it was their post-hoc excuse rather than their goal. a "leftist paradise" definitionally can't be an ethnostate unless you don't understand anything about leftism besides culture war bugbears, which is unfortunately the level of understanding on display during Krakoa. what they ended up creating by sheer incompetence was basically equivalent to the ethnically/genetically pure fantasy society that was used to sell the "socialism" part of National Socialism to pre-Nazi Germany.
>>150736811Krakoa was built on genocide and funded by the biggest governments in the world? Weird, I thought it was a previously uninhabited island
>>150737530>is never a valid reason to build an ethnostate, because no valid reasons existDon't you need to be Jewish somewhere else?
>>150739335>thinking Jews don't like ethnostateslollmao
>>150735241Who?
>>150734249Guess it wasn't selling that well after all
>>150739500I still think its just hype for a relaunch and they rename the line
>>150739335Because as we all know, the Jews are famously opposed to the existence of ethnostates.
>>150734249No it isn’t
>>150734575Fuck off faggot
>>150739510Only if it involves whites or asians.
>>150738752Marvel got sick of Absolute stealing Ultimate's lunch money so they quit.
Is this the first time in DECADES that DC has notched a clear win over Marvel? It feels like it.
>>150739352>>150739510Except their own, yes. "There is no justification for an ethnostate" is a thoroughly Jewish statement
>>150739065>but civilians in most X-Men books basically exist to be bigot strawmenThe upswing in White Mutants telling brown people their lives are worse than theirs
>>150734437Why? Just nuke this universe, wash your hands, and move on. 616 doesn't need more refugees
>>150739500I mean afaik it's kinda sorta isn't USM and Ultimates seems to be the ones making the most money in the line
>>150739750One of the Incursion solicitation leaks shows Miles bring back a bunch of Tony's hero boxes to 616
>>150739750Blue Captain MarvelNative American non-binary HawkeyeKillmonger MaystormNatsuAnd possibly the Parker children Are all coming to 616
>>150736025Now I see why Kevin Feige hates the comic division so much.
>>150740008It is because the committee was plagiarizing the movies.By stealing ideas from the movie side.
>>150740008The comics division is ran by idiots and literal man/womanchildren that could somehow manage to fucked up boiling water, legitimately some of the most incompetent people around
>>150739660DC Ellis winning by literally doing nothing except putting out stuff that at least MILDLY enjoyable to read, Marvel seemingly can't even manage that consistently anymore
>>150735566She’s bisexual. Shes for Miles and 616 Armor.
>>150737332>fraction forgot how to writeHe was always shit, you are only realizing it now.
>>150739065>mutants are okay but fuck the X-MenI want that, but I sincerely doubt it'd be done any better than that time Wonder Man went anti-Avengers. Characters like that would be written like nuts for taking umbrage with Magneto and the Phoenix Five. He'd like down the street from a guy with a very minor mutation, and then turn out to be insane and ritualistically kill him a few issues in because reasons.
I find it amusing how often anons here would like to say how the audience for Krakoa weren't paying customers yet it was one of the much better selling comics for Marvel in quite a while and definitely much better than how the X-men books were doing in the last couple of years. Also how Krakoa made the X-men be isolationist and founded a nation when this is like their 3rd or 4th time actually. That working with mutant villains didn't make sense when that's like a staple for X-men whenever it comes to extinction threats to mutantdom so long as its not gonna result in human casualties. Now you have back your old classic X-men, there's where they are superheroes for the humans despite being hated, one for them on the run, one for them training new group of kids to be potential X-men, isn't this what "true X-men fans" wanted? Yet sales are in the gutter again. Im getting convinced all these "true X-men fans" are people who want them wiped, they are probably the same ones who like to clamor about how "X-men and mutants should go on be in a separate universe from 616 since they aren't compatible with the other superheroes" and then get mad when X-men aren't invited in other superhero events/conflicts.
>>150740816Oh cool, let's check out this "old classic X-Men" and how it's do->DAE remember KRAKOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAA, feat. Kamala Khunt (clone)I see.https://desuarchive.org/co/search/filename/1695783992454.gif/Oh nevermind, you think that's a positive.
>>150735915Everybody's assuming Otto is going to do Superior but I dunno I could see Otto just larping as Spider-Man but still himself just in a spider costume. Or he makes this costume for Peter. I dunno. Either way, Superior being treated as this memberberries shit is laughably abysmally bad because that shit was awful and Marvel only does it because the BND losers love Slott.>>150740816A major contributing factor to that sales boost was the fact around that time they were actually trying to push them again since the FOX deal went through and people were gonna buy X-Men no matter what. It just helped that it was a new status quo. What didn't help was the books kneecapping any sort of real emotional or deep character reason for why all the good guys worked with the bad guys just because Humans do what they always do in the 616.
Sorry but I don't believe Marvel would end a commercial and critically successfully imprint early out of like artistic reasons.
>>150734249The Absolute state of Marvel!
>>150740921Thanks for proving your a retard who can't read or refuse to read what I actually said. I was just criticizing what they did for the Ms. Marvel book and think about how it could have been done better if they really want her to feel like an X-men character now instead of the shit show of having her make her own X-team and being able to stop a Phoenix/Legion with just her own powers.
>>150741025This sad pathetic consolewars shit is dead even in /v/ so seeing any form of it on /co/ with an even more dead industry is real grim and pointless. Who can even get angry anymore? They've robbed us of almost anything that was good about comic book superheroes. It's just apathy now.All the books are good for is their art. MM even if written by Camp, still has cool art and Ultimate while giving some cool ideas like Richard and the Benom suit, I just know it won't last. Ult is just getting refreshed because Maker is getting out. Anybody who doubts that has never seen Marvel in the past 20 years and doesn't know this shit happens time and again. New names/new books/new branding, same tired old shit. The plots are stretched out and the moments don't hit.
>>150741215>no, you see, I'm PICKY about how my krakoafag tourist crap is doneRiveting. I'd tell you to go suck a dick if that didn't get you off.
>>150740816>Yet sales are in the gutter again.none of your excuses and deflections are worthwhile points, but this one egregiously so.sales were in the gutter already before Krakoa ended, that's why they pivoted, no matter how much /r/xmen wants to shit on Brevoort whenever he breathes.there's good stuff in Krakoa, but it's frontloaded and largely squandered. when they decided to stretch Krakoa out and fully bite down on the poisoned apple Hickman put on the page, they started floundering narratively - and so did sales, given the data from endpoint stores that we have. they declined continually year-over-year until even Wolverine started falling off top lists.cope all you like, but if Krakoa had been selling it'd still be the status quo. FtA was actually a bit of a shot in the arm at the start, but further boosted by 97. that they couldn't sustain that or capitalize is more a consequence of FtA being pretty much exactly as poorly internally planned as late-stage Krakoa was, lol - the Manhunt event was an absolute clusterfuck and a case in point, but shit like that is sort of par for the course after how poorly organized the X-Office got during Krakoa.most annoying of all to me, FtA itself can't ever meaningfully reconcile the poison in Hickman's apple because the desperate pivot to an "older" status quo required that the characters be unilaterally nostalgic for it. it thus inherits most of the character problems as well - the poison's still in the system (opening the era with Jubilee trapping a mutant girl and her mother alone in a diner with a gang of mutant hating kids by blowing up the gang's vehicle was certainly a choice - and not one i see a sane Jubilee making, but this Jubilee did also abandon her adopted infant human child in another dimension during Krakoa).tl;dr: Krakoa shat itself and died, and FtA was born almost immediately ALSO shitting itself and dying.
>>150740816Nobody knows what the actual numbers are thanks to Diamond dying. We've only had lists with no actual sales figures for like 4 years now.
>>150741240>"my team is currently making fools of themselves therefore the whole contest is stupid and i am in fact above whining about it," he whinesit's like you pulled this reply straight out of the console wars you claim to hate
>>150741532>opening the era with Jubilee trapping a mutant girl and her mother alone in a diner with a gang of mutant hating kids by blowing up the gang's vehicle was certainly a choice - and not one i see a sane Jubilee making, but this Jubilee did also abandon her adopted infant human child in another dimension during KrakoaThe only person who's actually gotten Jubilee right since the end of Generation X is Liu and that's by virtue of being a massive Jubilee fangirl. I don't like that it was in service to a character I despise (X-23) but she obviously understood the core of Jubilee's character that makes her endearing (her cleverness, iron will and empathy) and not Generic Cool Young Woman that everyone else writes her as.
>>150741000"commercial and critically successfully imprint" means nothing if you can't keep the momentum up. It's why Batman and Absolute are booting Marvel books out of top ten sales now.
It should have been a 6 months event at most. Nothing happens and still a lot of months to go. Fucking retarded. Also they already did the Maker is coming in X time.Trantifa ultimates btfo.
>>150736768A group that guises itself as progressive, but really only wants to flip the hierarchy so they become the top instead of wherever they are this week.
>>150741757>1>1>12>2>11>1>11>1>12>21Can we at least get a 3 somewhere?
>>150734249Is everyone in this thread retarded or something? The ultimate universe that exists currently is ending. Not the concept of ultimate universe. It is just going to be reset before maker did his fuckery.
>>150741579Ok faggot sorry I didn't clarify what I meant by "I just know it won't last" but by "it" I meant these new gimmick universes from both of the big 2. I mean it is obvious from the perspective that none of these universes last forever but I think it will die off faster than people think.How is that?
world's strongest assocation of the most useless dickriders ever assembled
>>150734249FINALLY
>>150742292Absolute's got such critical mass it's keeping an entire elseworld DC trinity in the top 10 sales list a full year after launch. there's still buzz about the line. people reliably like it when shown it, no matter what /co/ntrarians say. there's some serious momentum there, whether or not it's "all gonna end oh woe is comics."but more importantly for our discussion, that momentum is something the Ultimates line doesn't currently have. Marvel may be trying a DC-like universe reboot for it as a shot in the arm - we'll see.
I guess it's time to read some absolute books and see what's the rage. saw a panel of batman and catwomen knocking boots, it was hot
>>150741627her reliable (and not mutant-exclusive ffs) empathy is like my favorite part of her... and the part of her they seem to forget the fastest. unfortunately if you make all the civilians strawmen bigots, actual empathy is anathema to the clumsy, childish character writing that results.i also think Jubilee's design and demeanor leads to certain writers concluding she's the dumb kind of impulsive associated with her choice of outfit... when her actual impulsiveness in her original characterization was more along the lines of, "somebody needs help there, so i'm going to instantly drop everything i'm doing to find a way to get it to them." up to and including helping injured enemies at her own risk.she HATES hurting people, hates even seeing people get hurt, and that is consistent up until roughly the Wondra bullshit, i'd say. people act like the vampire thing ruined her character but IMO it was actually the New Warriors stint that damaged her most severely just beforehand....anyway there's an actual Jubilee thread up which would be a better place for this discussion lol
>>150734249Good riddance.
>>150744090We need this beauty to come to main marvel universe first.
>>150744567Fuck no, keep her away from the 616 cuckolds.
>>150744576No. She will go to 616 and be with Miles.
>>150737097Marvel realized their editors (lol there are none!) would have to actually do their jobs when it comes to Ultimate since people were actually reading it.Everyone knows Marvel Comics are a branch where all the failed writers go, and to spitball new merch ideas. Ultimate was a fluke because they didn't expect Hickman to take it semi-seriously. Not sure why because getting the ball rolling is Hickman's strongest aspect of his writing
>>150742805Magik and Viper are shotacons
>>150741757Yeah Brevoort’s done.
>>150734249>people love Peter/MJ! What do we do?>just shut down the damn thinglmfao
>>150736040Yeah it did. Reaching closer and closer to there respective issues 24's. You really see it. Save for The Ultimates, but even then you see it..idk. Don't get me stares on Ultimate Incursion. I wonder why, Ultimate editorial didn't have the respective comics have an annual.
>>150741757>USM is the only Ultimate book in the top 10 maybe even top 20But I get called crazy when I say these books are genuinely not good
>>150742805Khonshu Twins losing almost immediately GENUINELY makes me wonder what the Maker was thinking, like they just seem like "regular" people
>>150744623Based!
>>150734249If the new Ultimate Universe is ending, then it has to be survivors. You know, like Miles Morales survived the original Ultimate Universe. There was a supposed leak time ago talking about several characters of the Ultimate Universe surviving the destruction of the Ultimate Universe, which includes the Parker's kids. I truly hope to be true, because I do NOT wish to see another Spider-Family disappear.
>>150742805I feel like there should've been an extra-book where these fuckers are doing some-fucking-thing, maybe killing lesser superheroes or forcing lesser supervillains to work for them.Omega Red's death seems like it was supposed to be a big moment, "one of Maker's top dogs is dead, shit just got real" kind of stuff, but it feels so hollow and unsatisfying.
>>150742805>The only real threats are Hulk, DeCosta and the Rasputin's
>>150745829See >>150739975
>>150746081Thanks for the list. If the married Peter Parker and Mary Jane don't survive the Ultimate Universe, I believe the Ultimate Venom could "copy" their psyches and "download" them into 616's Peter and Mary Jane. Similar to what happened with Jon's parents in DC in order to restore Superman and Lois.
>>150742805>The Maker disappears and they all immediately cut each other's throats Absolute Evil was better
>>150745884With the exception of Hill none of them feel anywhere near as threatening as they should given the circumstances
>>150746171*Hulk
>>150740008Kevin Feige put in Zeb as the top writer at Marvel so he's just as responsible for the current state of the comics division.
>>150734249At this point I'm just going to finish USM. The timejumps took most of the enjoyment out of it for me.
>>150746139Fuck this Hawkman design is so fucking great
Would you say Ultimate Universe is worth reading?
>>150746139ThisUltimate Universe>council of villains are all introduced in Ultimate Invasion > do fucking nothing most of the timeAbsolute Evil>each villain is introduced in their ongoing > does something > joins Justice League
>>150736204I liked Krakoa in the original Hickman mini because cultist brainwashing is totally my jam. Even if it harms the franchise I'm so fucking down for SF Mutant Jonestown it's not even funny. But then I got blueballed hard by what actually followed, which was pretty much as you and the other anon described. Writing everyone as a completely out of character flaming faggot right from the start ruins all the underlying horror that should have been there.
>>150747544It's wild to me because half of the council legit doesn't do anything/aren't tied to any specific character, like you'd think the Captain Britain would be going after Peter considering Kingpin is HIS subordinate but he never did just like Viper and Silver Samurai should have been hunting down the X-Girls far sooner than they have and don't get me started on the Moon Knight twins, like it's genuinely baffling they expect people to be excited for this when the council members are genuine jobbers save for Hulk
>>150747960>Almost none of these characters have all interacted because they just HAVEN'T OKAYSome of the worst pacing I've ever seen and they had 2 years to plan this out
>>150747429No, some people swear by Ultimate X-Men but I just don't see the hype
>>150734249Ultimate Universe will end. It will then restart as Ultimate Universe 2
>>150747429yes
>>150747429I like Ultimate Spider-man, it's a bit slow though.
>>150747840i'm in a similar boat - my initial reaction was "oh this place is rotten to the core, and i'm here for watching the true heroes here (who i at least believed would be present, since i thought these were... still the X-Men i knew and loved. whoops.) confront that fact - both externally and within themselves." what pushed me over the line of "this place isn't heroic, and literally can't be" wasn't even working with evil mutants, or Magneto's "we're gods now" speech, or the suspiciously-only-heavy-hitters oligarchy of mutants on the Quiet Council.it was something much more subtle and clearly deliberate: the hypocrisy of portals that screened for an x-gene being employed by the same people who seethed over mutant identification laws.it was such a perfect crack in the facade, as if tailor-made to explore the ways in which authoritarianism and bigotry have no real scruples and will violate their professed principles to achieve their ultimate goals of despotism and discrimination the moment it becomes convenient to do so.and this was further reinforced by Kitty being denied entry, which was very clearly setting up an exploration of the ways in which such a system doesn't really "protect its own" the moment that becomes inconvenient - the levers of exclusion never go away, they just find new targets. exceptions that might threaten those levers, even to protect a "fellow [ingroup]" don't happen. instead, the victims are simply redefined as "not true [ingroup]" and/or "[outgroup] infiltrators and sympathizers."...and then they do nothing with any of that setup and make up some bullshit about the Kitty thing being "totes a joke the whole time" because X-Men twitter believed naked, nigh-parody ethnonationalist, eugenicist propaganda hook, line, and sinker.i only hate the Krakoa era because i loved the start of it so much.
>>150748013It’s style over substance. Nobody would give an iota of a fuck about UXM if Momoko didn’t drew it.
>>150747544Yeah, Absolute Superman is probably the worst of the books because it's a Superman book with the writing of a Captain Planet storyline and a Batman villain as the main antagonist, but Ra's still does more than any of the Council members. Even if there are other threats like Sinestro or the Greek Gods the members of the League aren't exactly playing second fiddle to other villains, they're still relevant.It's hard to even distinguish the personalities of the council beyond saying that they do bad things and that it's necessary to ensure the order of the Maker's world but even the Joker is better at that.
>>150748483I don't see it lasting if she leaves
>>150748641Wild most of them don't even really have back stories beyond "I am evil"
>>150747429A good chunk of the 00's one is. I won't pretend the 20's one doesn't have its moments, but I feel like it's only lasting legacy will be that people will have to clarifying they're talking about the 00's when they mention the Ultimate Universe.
>>150748682are saturday morning cartoon villain motivations not enough for /co/ anymore?sad.
>>150734249Marvel really really are the kings of self sabotage.
>>150749207Nuance would be nice if they're treating the Ultimate line as gritty & serious.
>>150749207It'd be nice if the evil counterpart to the smartest man in the universe didn't hire a bunch of retards to fail at doing his dirty work
>>150734249KWABBendis won, Millar wonHackman lost, Gayniz Camp lost
>>150736790Batchad always wins. Part II blowing out Superkek is just going to be the cheery of the Detective Comics Pie.
>>150750287Bendis winning means everyone loses.
>>150739660You mean Batchad single handedly carrying DC. Superkek has done nothing.
>>150750287>Camp lost>even though everyone except the kind people on /co/ who performatively hate everything (and never read comics in the first place) seem to like (or outright love) what he's doing in the Absolute linei honestly just don't think he cared as much about the Ultimate setting. either that or Marvel Editorial is so draconian that they managed to make nearly all of their writers look like they phoned it in.between Marvel and DC, one was supposed to have the draconian editors, and the other had absentee editors. i think it was Marvel with the former and DC with the latter but i'm not 100% sure.regardless, Marvel seems to have cornered both markets of editorial incompetence between the Ultimate universe and whatever unholy mix of negligence and chaos was going on in the X-Office when i bounced out of the X-books....maybe mainline X-books got better since? it was a while back. please, somebody tell me they did.
>>150748483I liked first few issues when it had light horror manga undertones, but then it quickly became fucking boring.Shadow King is a real disappointment and he's somehow the most developed out of nu-Ultimate villains.
>>150734249It was to good to last. I am going to miss X-Nips.
>>150750854Reading Ultimates and Absolute Martian Manhunter is one of those most night and day experiences in terms of quality
>>150750890It's literally a potential man comic, people are obsessed with what it "Could Be" rather than what it is, I've seen so many crazy headcwnons and theorycrafting that significantly smarter than anything Peach has actually done with this book and it's really sad
>>150750890>>150752171Ult x-men's problem lies in the stupidly large cast getting in the way of significant character development and moments. If Peach really is telling the truth that 22 issues was the plan, then Armor, Maystorm, Shadow King and Surge were already enough to tell a great story. Everyone else should've just been cameos.
>>150750854>mainline X-books got betterno lol they're terrible
>>150752148it's the kind of thing that makes one struggle to believe they're written by the same person. IDK, maybe Ultimates is written by Marvel Editorial using Camp as a pen name.
>>150752908i was afraid of that.what's the bullshit these days? i'm aware of the Storm-wanking, and the bullshit about hunting down Charles (or something/someone else? idek) was about where i dropped it.any new layers of stupid or is it just in a holding pattern of general suck? the high water mark for me, because it was so funny, was probably that time in Uncanny when Rogue told Gambit to blow up a child. Temper seemed like the only remotely sane person on the main team. Illyana and Cain have excuses, at least.
>>150753083The entire line is currently in the age of revelation event which about Doug Ramsey of all people becoming mutant hitler and doing age of apocalypse again. Before that it was kinda just nothing happening like they're waiting to relaunch.
>>150734249Again?
>>150747429>Original pre-UltimatumNot really, it is massively a product of its time in a bad way. Ultimate X-Men especially is trash the whole way through.>Original post-UltimatumYes, very much worth reading. More interesting ideas are presented and it's the one time Hickman wasn't a complete shitter.>HickmanverseNo, absolutely not.
>>150752148Martian Manhunter sucks, it's carried by trippy art so people think it's deep and shit. You can make 90% of comic fans believe that what you're creating has some kind of depth so long as you have the artist draw a character looking in dull shock or freaking out as they're surrounded by surreal imagery.
>>150736790https://youtu.be/5IsSpAOD6K8?si=uSk7iYHOelHH8_sU&t=91
>>150738757>6160 Peter and MJ sacrifice themselves to lifeboat the kids to 616 >616 Peter and MJ have their real kids now and have to figure out how things work nowGuess that's one way to get them in the movies and games. Forcing a Damian.
>>150752862It really pisses me off how much of early UXM was Peach wasting page time on having characters standing around doing nothing not even getting dialogue, oke I insane to that Natsu and Mori up until recently never talked
>>150752148Why?
>>150753199ewwi do not like Cypher
>>150753982It's trying to do atmospheric stuff like you'd see in a lot of better manga but Peach washed out of that industry for a reason.
>>150754224even if you're all "popular thing sucks actually and only i am smart enough to not like it" kooky like >>150753321, Ultimates still has basically no artistic voice or SOVL in comparison.
>>150754559>he doesnt praise Current Hot Thing he's a kookIt's bad. Camp is not a good writer. Ultimate and Absolute both suck and there's zero reason to read current Marvel or DC when you have a wealth of actually good books rom their pasts to read instead.
>>150741757>Batman>Batman>Batman>and Batmancomics are booming
>>150734249 It was obvious it would end when The Maker comes back. Stories should end. Comics need to accept that for a story to have a purpose, a point, it needs to end. Milking something eternally turns it into meaningless drivel the strays from its original purpose and idea.
>>150747429Ultimate Spider-man is really the only title worth reading if your talking about the original Ultimate universe and the new Hickman universe.
>>150734249Isn't the Marvel multiverse infinite?Why do they need to end the Ultimate universe?It's not like they need to destroy a universe to make room for another universe like DC or something.
>>150747429The new stuff being made currently?Only if you think this guy looks like such a cool villain you'd read months and months of multiple books all prefiguring him coming out of his walled off Starbucks sipping a onions latte.
>>150747429Ultimate Invasion, Spider-Man, X-men, and four or five issues of Ultimates areWolverine and Spider-Man Incursion are horribleBlack Panther is very inoffensively generic
Off topic but does anyone know what Donny Cates original plans for the Ultimate Universe were going to be before he got in that accident and Hickman took over?
The wheel always turns between the big two. When will the wheel next turn?
>>150755095yes yes i'm sure you'll receive due adulation for the depth and great importance of your critique any day nowin the meantime, Ultimates will continue to be markedly worse than Absolute Martian Manhunter
>>150735427>>150744623Keep on telling yourselves that.
>>150739865>It's too dangerous to leave tech that the people of that universe concocted to be able to save themselves from the evil god that has been fucking with them since before they even realized it was happeningGod, Miles is such a fucking cunt, what happened?
>>150753249I enjoyed OG Ultimate X-Men.It wasn't any good, but it had that "X-Men Evolution but edgier" vibe to it that appealed to me at the time.
I want Absolute Spider-Man.
>>150741757>>150744729Absolute is selling a lot, as is Batman, but the rest of DC isn't doing as well.DC iced the Justice League book for almost three years yet it struggles to stay in the Top 50 despite having the hottest artist in the industry drawing it. Is it even selling better than Taylor's Titans? Superman is also pretty much out of the Top 50 despite DC announcing the "Summer of Superman".And that's Superman and JL. Most of their major characters have their mainline books never even reaching the Top 100. Even books that were selling well during Dawn of DC are now struggling.I'm sure at this point they are either regretting making Absolute (because it's heavily eating into their mainline sales) instead of just putting that energy into their mainline. Or they might just make Absolute their mainline soon.Marvel is flooding the market with X-Men and Spider-Man minis, but they sell better than most of the books DC publishes.
>>150757186Are any comics selling better than mainstream manga?
>>150734249It'll be a universal reboot and they'll keep going with zero downtime.
bump
>>150756364It’s meant to be!
Mei x Miles shippers.We will win.
>>150755308Happy endings is for girls now.
>>150744729As if that fat fuck leaving will change anything.
>>150736972The sister and MJ dies, Ben comes to 616, and finds that Peter. He will be the reason why MJ and Peter are gonna get back together, because he tells them he is their kid from another universe.
>>150758851>May diesLame.
>>150735427No she isn't, the X-Men will get to her and groom her before Miles finds her in 616.
>>150736811I hate that you point it out but it's damn true.
>>150758856It is a canon event, anon. the writers are too pussies to have it any other way.
>>150758779>Mei x Miles shippers.You mean Ziger's self-insert pedo brain.
>>150736811Yes, but their Israel is a GOOD Israel, anon. It's only icky when others do it.
>>150757267Nope.
>>150758861More like Miles will find her and he’ll encourage her to join the 616 x-men.
>>150737223>Groomed morning! I- I mean good morning! We are the X-Men and we see that you are an unsupervised child with god-powers! Wanna come to our Island? Don't worry, the government will never release the files about it!
>>150758851they should have 6160 MJ slap around 616 MJ for being retarded
>>150741757>Superman beats three MCU movies>Only Batman sells >Bat wank increases ten fold and leaves everyone else with bits of crumbs and table scrapes
>>150758912She’ll fit right in to 616
>>150739508Because that worked before-_-
>>150759547it did considering the ultimate line was pretty popular for the first year 'The World after Maker' seems to fit with a linewide reset
I am going to miss the nu-ultimate universe
