>You’ve probably never heard someone who works in TV say this: “I really could see the show ending with us loving it and people hating it. I’m not saying that will happen, but I’m just saying that would be fine with me. That’s funny to me. That’s better than doing fan service. We’ll do whatever we find funny.”>That’s Zach Hadel talking, one half of the duo behind “Smiling Friends.” Along with Michael Cusack, the former YouTube trailblazers have created a show that is not only downright hysterical but also serves as a bold example for an industry drowning in unprecedented trepidation. As big-budget studios continuously default to beating a dead horse, and then sell an eight-part limited series to Netflix about how exactly they thrashed the poor animal, Hadel and Cusack unapologetically blast candy-colored pandemonium onto the airwaves and declare: What’s “funny to us” is enough. Take it or leave it.>Clearly, it’s working, because “Smiling Friends” just released its third season on Adult Swim. Working double duty as stars and creators, Hadel voices Charlie, a bro-ish yellow blob creature, and Cusack voices Pim, a well-mannered chap who looks like a cross between a school boy and a grape. Together, they are the Smiling Friends, an agency dedicated to fixing existential crises, a task left incomplete unless they put a smile on their patron’s face. The show’s engine runs on frenetic cartoon logic and a dizzying cast of one-off characters like 3D Squelton, Count Groxia, God and Ronald Regan. Despite its violent absurdity, the world of “Smiling Friends” often resembles our own in startling ways, exploring everything from suicide to imposter syndrome to ravenous parasocial relationships.
>>150931453Why are they so anti-fandom?
>Before the premiere of Season 3, Hadel and Cusack sat down with Variety to discuss the ins and outs of “Smiling Friends” development, building thematic truths from aburdist humor and pissing off their fans for fun.>How did you go about developing Season 3? What were your goals?>Michael Cusack: When we go into a new season, we want to see it as a continuation, because the show, by nature, is episodic. Just like an album, we try to create a track list that all works together, so not trying to do too many episodes in a season that feel similar to each other, or tick the box of a Mr. Frog episode or holiday episode. Zach often says it’s just instinctual.>Zach Hadel: Season 1 was very Pim and Charlie-focused and a bit more plot pointy with bits of improv. Season 2 explored the improv stuff a little more. I feel like Season 3 is a blend of those two. Since the pilot, we’ve been trying to get that exact ratio right. Like improv to plot, how much do you meander?
>>150931468And pro-findom?
Outside of the core influences like ‘South Park’ or ‘Beavis and Butt-Head,’ what are you watching and reading that influences the creative direction of the show?>MC: A lot of the crossover with Zach’s and my interests is the input of modern-day life. We’re the same as everyone, hooked on the internet and current-day trends and events and just observing all of this. I guess it subconsciously goes through a filter into the show. It’s colorful characters, but a lot of the comedy comes from how realistic it is, and it’s a very grounded world. So I guess our inspiration is just the chaos of life in a way, as well as cartoons.>ZH: A lot of animators grow up watching cartoons, and that inspires them to draw and that inspires them to animate. Which is great, but if the only thing you watch is other cartoons, you’re not gonna pull from an interesting [place]. “Family Guy” will reference weird ’50s stuff and ’80s stuff. “The Simpsons” pulls from dramas and actions and thrillers and real-life references. A lot of the stuff we find funny or interesting, and what goes into the show, is a lot of the real-world stuff. Like a weird Dick Cavett interview from the ’70s. All the real stuff in the world that we find interesting as adult men, that is completely unrelated to cartoons, is usually more fresh. If you’re just watching cartoons and making cartoons based on cartoons, it spirals into a big blob of nothing.
It’s an interesting point you make about the show being grounded, because the world still feels recognizable even though it can be very extreme. Where are the boundaries for what’s allowed in it?>MC: We’re pretty good at cracking each other up with stuff that’s probably not able to go on the show. Then we can filter anything that we know is too stupid or, I guess, inappropriate. The writers’ room can be chaos. It’s like white noise, and then we’re like, “Alright, let’s be serious. Let’s actually turn this into an episode.” A good example is when Allan kicks the assistant in the Gwimbly episode (Season 2, Episode 1) and just kills her. We’ll joke about a lot of stuff like that, like, “What if this character just kills this person?” But sometimes it makes it through if it’s funny. Most of the time, it wouldn’t be funny; it would just be stupid. But we can be like, “All right, you know what? It would kind of work here as a shocking thing.”>ZH: When Allan kicks the assistant, that’s usually when it goes to court on the show. Obviously, we will only do what both of us are happy with. There’s never, ever, ever, even once been a forceful “this has to go in.” But we do have times, very rarely, where it’s like, “Is that [too far]?” That Allan kick, I think I drew a rough of that, and then I showed it to [Michael], and you thought it was funny, and then I got scared. I was like, “That might ruin his character.” You actually had to convince me I was wrong. It’s one of people’s favorite jokes. But I was very scared. I was like, “Are people gonna think Allan’s like, a bastard?” But the way we solved it was that he doesn’t kill her. If you look at the animation, he genuinely didn’t see her. So that’s usually where that gets litigated. The character of Allan did not see her go, “Fuck you,” and kick her head off. He genuinely got spooked. That’s why it’s okay, and that’s why it’s funny.
I’ve heard you both say that “Smiling Friends” is made exclusively for laughs, but in this season, I feel the show waded into stronger thematic territory.>ZH: I feel like we’re averse to serious episodes. I obviously know that we have the Mr. Frog episode (Season 3, Episode 2), but I don’t view that as our serious episode. I view that as like, I know the word subversive is kind of over said, but I think it’s a subversion. When you have the dinner scene with Mr. Frog and the dad, it’s done very straight. It’s done like a proper, prestige TV kind of thing. But the undertone is still comedy. It’s still a real man painted green in shorts, pouring his heart out. Those sorts of moments are played for, number one, the story, but also, just to be shocking. We want people to go, “Holy shit!” That’s the goal of that. It was just to say, “Hey, let’s play with a genre and be shocking and subversive and still bring it back to comedy.” [I don’t see that as] form breaking. We’re not gonna do serialized, serious moments.>MC: We’re kind of allergic to messages. We never want to be at the end of an episode saying, “I learned something today and blah, blah, blah.” What we try to do is thematic questions. So in the first episode, the thematic question is, “Should I kill myself, or should I not?” Obviously, it’s answered in the right way. We’re lucky enough that the show was born out of optimism, and we always were anti-nihilist shows. So, oftentimes the thematic question is hovering around those kinds of themes, and then hopefully answering the right thing. Like the Mole Man episode (Season 3, Episode 3) is like, “Should I be addicted to fandom or do something positive with my life?”
Tell me more about the Mole Man episode. I thought it was particularly pointed when Mole Man brought up the “realistic dialogue” that fans are always dissecting.>ZH: We obviously are aware that we’re a growing show. We’re not like “The Simpsons,” so we don’t want to make a meta episode where it’s like, “Yeah, we’re cool and everyone’s in on it.” That was more broadly about the relationship between fandoms and shows, and like, what is that? The realistic dialogue thing, that’s probably the most meta it gets, honestly. Some people, not a lot, but some people I saw said, “Oh, Season 2 had too much of that stuff.” We actually pulled back. There were times when he said, “The Smiling Friends.”>MC: The most important thing is we’re commenting on fandom isolated. And obviously, we’re a show too, so it’s going to have crossover. But it’s not commenting on fans. It’s more commenting on, “In a fantasy world, what could the worst fan in the world be like?” We’re all fans of something. So it’s commenting on a part of your psyche, and if you get too obsessed with something, here are the downsides. So, no specific show we’re commenting on, and not us at all. When we say the realistic dialogue, maybe it’s getting a little bit unconsciously meta there? But we really want to avoid that.
How closely are you watching the feedback from your fans?>ZH: I’d be a fucking liar [if I said I didn’t listen to fans]. Both Michael and I come from YouTube, so I grew up putting my stuff out there raw. It’s not like I was making a Netflix show. I would put a cartoon out, and I’d see a guy go, “You suck! Fuck you!” That helps you build up a skin. I have a method where I read as much as I possibly can for 48 hours about an episode until I’ve seen basically every take someone can have. But we’ve never, ever, ever gone into a writers room and gone like, “Well, the fans said this, so we should do this.” I saw some people saying, “Oh, in Season 2, they just kept doing Mr. Frog because he was popular.” It was the opposite. Mr. Frog was our favorite character. When that episode (Season 1, Episode 2) aired, it aired right after the first episode, which people loved. It had been out for like two years. Some people, not a lot, but right when it dropped, were like, “That wasn’t as good as the first.” But now everyone’s a fan of Mr. Frog. That was something people thought we brought back because of fan service. I don’t think there’s a single character or moment or joke we’ve purposely brought back for fan service. If anything, sometimes we try to piss the fans off in a fun way that’s funny to us.>MC: We’re kind of stubborn in a way where we’re like, “No, we know what’s good with our show.” But if you read a comment now and again and it cuts deep, it’s usually something that you subconsciously agree with. So it is good to read for feedback. But oftentimes we’ll read something and be like, “No.” Like Zach said, we like Mr. Frog, and then it was proved right. But we really try not to read comments and then be like, “All right, everyone wants to see this.” We just do what we think is funny.End.
Seems like they approach fan feedback reasonably well. I don't understand this agenda that they hate their fans or whatever
Zach if you're reading this, put this exact message in the show >>150926251
>>150931515>If you’re just watching cartoons and making cartoons based on cartoons, it spirals into a big blob of nothing.I can think of a few shows this could be taking a jab at.Also this is the main reason the anime industry has gone to shit over the last decade, and the reason capeshit has been terrible since the 90s.
>>150931468Because fandoms fucking suck.
>>150931468You can critique something without hating it.In fact, critiquing something you just absolutely find revolting usually leads to really shitty and pointless bad satire.
>>150931530>When Allan kicks the assistant, that’s usually when it goes to court on the show. Obviously, we will only do what both of us are happy with. There’s never, ever, ever, even once been a forceful “this has to go in.” But we do have times, very rarely, where it’s like, “Is that [too far]?” That Allan kick, I think I drew a rough of that, and then I showed it to [Michael], and you thought it was funny, and then I got scared. I was like, “That might ruin his character.” You actually had to convince me I was wrong. It’s one of people’s favorite jokes. But I was very scared. I was like, “Are people gonna think Allan’s like, a bastard?” But the way we solved it was that he doesn’t kill her. If you look at the animation, he genuinely didn’t see her. So that’s usually where that gets litigated. The character of Allan did not see her go, “Fuck you,” and kick her head off. He genuinely got spooked. That’s why it’s okay, and that’s why it’s funny.People will read this then ignore it when Alan said the moleman's penis looked delicious and start screeching "canon queer icon" as if canon fucking matters in Smiling Friends
>>150931868It's a handful of really dedicated shitposters and/or schizos
>>150932044I mean ignoring everything else we see Allan sleeps with women. At best he's bisexual, but the penis comment could just as easily be Allan letting his intrusive thoughts win (which is actually a pretty shockingly consistent character trait for him.)
>>150931453>We’ll do whatever we find funnyGreat. When will they start?Oh wait. I get it. They removed all the funny parts to piss off the fans?
>>150931468Believe me. Nothing could possibly be better for a fandom than a source material that doesn't care at all about the fandom.
>>150931468The SF fandom is fucking horrid. The Oneyplays side of it are retards who siphon Zach's humor into their bloodstream, and the normie side of the fandom consists of antisocial fucktards who quote the show randomly in unwelcome situations, all the time
>>150931530I never figured they actually give a single shit about "what a character should and shouldn't do" outside of what they're basically there for.Charlie is just Zach if he was a fat lazy dude.Pim is the goody two shoes.Alan's the weird autistic asocial guy.Glep's the cute one. Mr. Boss is the Marc M voicebox.
>>150931591Zach and Mike read these threads, confirmed.hai zach *drools*
>>150933166think of all the dogshit takes he saw
>>150933211>takesThey're called opinions, xitterite
>if people dont like the ending that's fine>we just like to do what we enjoy>"so you like to piss of fans? YOU HATE YOUR FANS!?!??"What a bunch of NIGGERS journalists are. And resorting to "journalists", OP? That's pretty gay.
>>150931453Neat find
>>150933166I think Chris once said people on discord send them screenshots of random threads too. At the very least the one single influence of note from these threads however indirectly it may be is Chris and Zach acknowledging the puritan schizo that hates Zach in their Forespoken vids.
>>150931453imagine if they put Zoey in more episodes just to piss the shippers off
>>150931468It's called Theory of Obscurity. Zach and Mike are writing for themselves more than for the fans. In that way, the show's more authentic
>>150931545>let's play with a genre and be shocking and subversive>We want people to go, “Holy shit!” That’s the goal of that.This is like something a 13-year-old would say. How does a grown man not know "silly-looking character says grim dramatic things" has been done a million times?I wanted to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, and I assumed he had a self-aware "this cartoon is stupid and it's just for fun" attitude. But he really thinks he's being some subversive artiste who's gonna blow people's minds? Damn he really is a pretentious ass.
>>150931453The latest episode was my favorite in the season do far.But that's mostly cause any reference to the Reform party is great, and I'd like more.
>>150933138You're probably right, given that they talk about the Alan kick joke as if they'd never dealt with that question before.
>>150931468>guys who built their entire careers off of hating autistic people hate fandomgolly gee
>>150931468Man is a cringe humor connoisseur, of course he holds a certain degree of apprehension towards people who take "fandoms" too seriously.
Do Smiling Fags have to be fucking autistic in every thread?
>>150935959Ironic
>You’ve probably never heard someone who works in TV say thisI sure love the media pretending status quo is new. Is there any studio left in any media that doesn't openly disdain their fans? This is like movies and TV constantly wheeling out action girls and acting like it's new, even shocking.
I look like this
>>150931515> If you’re just watching cartoons and making cartoons based on cartoons, it spirals into a big blob of nothing.*cough* LSMark *cough*
>>150931515>If you’re just watching cartoons and making cartoons based on cartoons, it spirals into a big blob of nothing.Literally this board.
>>150936302>>150936331>you must reference dated shows like epic classic Simpsons or your cringe!!!!It doesn't fucking matter what you're referencing, as long as you make those references matter. Simpsons isn't funny to people cause they add in a bunch of old references, it's funny cause someone can laugh at the jokes without even knowing what they're seeing is references. Someone could do the same thing with modern cartoons too. All that matters is good writers working on it. But of course they'd have to say that in the most pretentious way cause they're hacks who think they're better than those OTHER guys
>>150936302>>150936331>>150936569When will tv writing evolve past references? Do they really think they're new hat because they reference shit you see on twitter, or some absurd thing a celebrity said in an old interview?
>>150936093nortubel cameo in smiling friends
>>150931453People are always talking about how you need lived experience to write. How the fuck am I supposed to make up for 3 decades of lost time and missed milestones. It's gotten so bad that I am literally terrified to leave my house out of fear of either getting mugged or in a car crash (a shitton are happening in my city)Everything is getting objectively worse, no third places, friends are temporary. I have run out of time to live life so I'll make cartoons anyways. Not like anyone but me is going to actually watch them anyway.
>>150936569The point isn't just referencing old random shit. It's about drawing from things not related to cartoons that you find funny or interesting and incorporating it into your work.They literally say this if you read the interview.
>>150936668It helps to have lived experiences but that's not the only thing you can use to reference from. You could read a history book.
>>150936668It's 2025, no male has lived experiences anymore beyond work so you aren't alone
Smiling Friends is nothing but internet and oneyplays references what real life moments is this series even using?
>>150936712
>>150936724Literally a meme
>>150936729Anything can be a meme if you think about it
Would Family Guy be accused of referencing internet memes if they did something like this today
>>150936760They wrote Peanut Butter Jelly Time into the show, don't you remember?
>>150936773Seems like it worked out pretty well for them considering their usage of it is more well known than the meme
>the next episode is a Halloween episode>they're skipping a week so it airs after Halloween
That bit of the Mole Rat doing the exact same kind of humor you see in every single Oneyplays comment section was hilariousThey're so fucking annoying
>>150931468Because they're right.
I like this frame
>>150936668This
>>150936668That
>>150936995>Glep plays Necrons, Ultramarines and... chaos(?)Pretty based.
>>150936668ThisI'm unironically proud of being an uncultured loser. Society doesn't like to hear from the losers and failures of the world but I make shit anyway. I didn't go to Harvard like Simpsons writers, I don't have some vast knowledge or wisdom. I like you, am in my mid 30s, it's too late for me to catch up to others so I say fuck it and make shit despite everything because it's literally all I have. No wife or girlfriend, no long term career outside of gigs and job hopping, university was depressing and I don't even driveMaybe this is why my only audience online seems to be literal autists with loud house profile pics but I don't give a shit. I don't see this planet living to 2030 so I have to put out art before it all comes crashing down
>>150931468Because they're basedFuck the audience, do whatever you want as long as it's genuine
>>150931468Because "Fandom" is a term for terminally online adult weirdos who obsess over children's media.And that is a truly miserable demographic to be beholden to.Fuck "Fandom".And fuck "Fans".This has been a public service announcement.
Honestly the most relatable quote from Smiling Friends has to be>My heroes don't like my penis?
>>150936668? He talked about getting inspired by more media than just cartoons not about life experiences.
I genuinely think that taking itself seriously was the reason Moral Orel got axed.Like you have an episode where Orel impregnates the whole town and it's supposed to be funny, and in another episode you got a psychological profile of women who suffered sexual abuse.
>>150937706a "serious" episode only works if it's in the context of "playing it straight"hence why mundane things become so funny in a fantasy cartoon world. Charlie being genuinely stressed out about getting audited by the IRS while Pim offers him unhelpful advice then having to go to glep for help while glep criticizes him for not filing a return for two years would be funnymore than that, or outside of "playing the straight guy" and you get into the territory of>normal words but a horse guy
>>150937706>I genuinely think that taking itself seriously was the reason Moral Orel got axed.Yeah but [as] asked the creators to make the show darker, and cancelled it when they got exactly that.
>>150937342When I think about it the more it makes sense. Mole Man is us, modern day men. We all have that moment in our lives where we wonder if our penis looks weird and usually need some form of external validation to calm down, naturally this is meant to come from women but for men who are unable to find a woman to show their penis to they look for validation from male role models or male friends. This wasn't an issue in the distant past since we had stuff like public bath houses so they could just check other average penises and compare them to their own. In the more recent past they could seek help from eager men in their lives such as pastors or uncles who were more than willing to look at their penises but nowadays with all the porn that surrounds people all they see are porn star penises and the thoughts of their penises being weird become even more invasive so they try to show dick picks to their iconic heroes like Zack in an attempt to have someone tell them that their penises look fine or even more than fine, beautiful.
>>150937105Looks like grey knights
>>150938120All in all I have to say that Charlie was an asshole for refusing to tell Mole Man what he thought about his digusting penis. To all who read this, remember this next time someone sends you a pic of their weird penis. I don't ask you to forgive them, just to understand what they're desperately searching for by sending you that pic.
>>150936668Use your mindset and your subconscious to craft something. Write something from the heart. You can make something interesting about being terrified to leave your house, or your cave, or your spaceship, or whatever your story is. What are the fears that are outside? Amplify them. Make them scarier than they actually are. Write a story where you conquer them.
>threads barely aliveIs this the end Smiling Friends?!
>>150939496There are multiple threads to be fair
>>150931468Have you seen yourself?
>>150936668If your agoraphobia is your lived experience, then draw from that. Seems like it’s created powerful emotions that could make for compelling art. You don’t have to make stuff about romantic relationships and friendships and adventure. If longing for those things or having great fears or living in your head is your experience, then that’s what you write about.But also, you should get a therapist to talk to about this. You can see them through video chat now so you don’t have to leave home. What you’re describing sounds pathological. Instead of bemoaning the last 30 years, choose to do the work that will make the next 30 your best life.
>>150936795How old are you?
>>150940834Re: therapist - don’t use fucking AI. See a real licensed therapist. You need to talk to an actual doctor about this, not the collected scrapings of random internet posts.
>>150931545Originally it was>we don't do messages, we only do whatever is funny to usNow it's>we don't do messages, we do "thematic questions" (???)What's so bad about depicting gamers, addicts and parasocial fans as miserable people that you have to lie about what you're doing? The millenial mindset? You're gonna be "lame" and "uncool" like the South Park guys if people find out you're preaching a moral?It's a thin veil nonetheless, as proven by how your run of the mill /co/ schizo can see right through the lie and readily point out how lightly they're treading with these topics when doing PR. And the cowardice and dishonesty.
>>150933166it was confirmed ages ago when they made fun of neopuritanfag>>150936668HP Lovecraft was in your exact situation once a upon a time and he did pretty well
>>150931468Look up "non-sharing selfshipper" or "non-sharing yumeshipper" or "proship" or "antiship" on xitter. Look at popular headcanons/ships and how mad their fans get when they aren't canon. Look at any fanwork that deviates from canon and how people react to that shit.It's a PVP zone of people taking shit too seriously.
>>150940923Therapists are for women and fagots without real problems.
>>150931545>We want people to go, “Holy shit!” That’s the goal of that. It was just to say, “Hey, let’s play with a genre and be shocking and subversive and still bring it back to comedy.” [I don’t see that as] form breaking. We’re not gonna do serialized, serious moments.This wasn't an in-person interview, right? Something about how this is written makes me think this isn't a transcript, but this is how interviews posted online are always written. Weird...
>>150932044>as if canon fucking matters in Smiling FriendsIt's probably impossible to really make a pure chaos noncanonical show. Just bringing side characters back from eariler seasons forms a canon. Every episode from the ongoing season references past events and surely current events will also be referenced in future episodes.Canon absolutely matters, they've pretended for a while that it doesn't but it does. Now they've started to embrace it. For example them acknowledging "critters" as a species in universe has massively canonical implications. They might never elaborate on why/how critters coexist with humans but we all know there are critter doctors that specialize in critter anatomy.Maybe at some point they'll start quietly retconning known events and facts to "un-canonize" the show and upset parts of the audience that are looking for continuity nods. But then the fans will just come up with shit like "original timeline" vs. "dimension shift timeline #1..." etc. to explain the split, and that will become the new canon in their minds. Or if they alter a known character's personality, fans will talk about a traumatic "event X" that shaped that character's traits.Eventually running from canon just becomes the "running from canon canon". That's why I think they're starting to lean into light canon more as the show goes on. Otherwise it just becomes a hindrance on what they're trying to focus on: jokes and gags.
>>150941558Probably a voice call interview. Journalists always prettify/condense wordings so they flow better on the page, and add [bracketed context] missing from disjointed sentences because spoken speech always has that
>>150932974Boss was going on about "delicious" grand beef before, probably just got stuck in his head.
>>150940923I cannot stress enough that therapy is the biggest scam on this planet. Even AI is better than wasting thousands of dollars on someone that's a glorified grifter at best.You have to want to change *and* have the strength to do it. Most people just find ways to use therapy to justify their behavior and strengthen their existing beliefs in a roundabout way.
>>150931453Any link to the latest episode?
The silly samuel episode was my favorite one so far. glep torture porn
