>dude i’m totally ruining marvel comics and damaging the reputation of the american comics industry lol
what is this guy’s problem

>>152761339
Too bad. I'm indifferent.

Last year during NYCC people across twitter and LOCG were saying DC was mogging the fuck out of Marvel in terms of reveals and announcements
Current sentiment is that Marvel's frustrating for obsessively relaunching, not letting runs to breathe, everything with Spider-Man editorial, almost everything with X-Men editorial, meddling with Hickman's long-term stuff, killing Ultimate (insert conspiracies over if the creatives knew it was ending or not), while DC has been earning good will through Absolute and Next Level reveals (unless you want a black hero)
I give it like two years before the roles are swapped again but I'm certain if there is a switch, it'll happen because the old guard at Marvel gets replaced kind of like how Didio's out

Marvel's been trying to upset me with Spider-Man since I was in middle school. I haven't cared in over a decade.

I have a feeling they’ll make Peter Parker a pedophiles before they let him have a happy relationship with Mary Jane.

>>152762708
Good.

Wasn't there already a thread about this? Shit sucks, but this was his strategy for a long time.

>>152761339
Too bad for him I already gave up being angry and am now simply indifferent. Thats what happens when you relie on rage baiting.

rage baiting aka trolling almost always works

>>152763550
How does it work if all they do is piss people off and no one buys the book.

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>>152761339

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>Your investment in these characters?
>We're gonna burn it all away!
>Till it's nothing but ash!
>Just to burn others down!
I just want adventures of dudes in funny outfits fighting Evil McBadmen, bros.

>>152763613
I thought they did.

>>152763878
What? By the book? Show the numbers. Im not taking brevoorts bloviating as a sign of success.

>>152763878
If it did work they wouldn't be so heavily reliant on incentive variants
If it did work they wouldn't need to relaunch every ten issues

>>152764195
>Brevoort's a lizard person.
I knew it.

>>152761339
Learning the wrong lessons from DC's success with Nu52-era controversies

>>152761339
He keeps saying he loves the reaction to Paul because people are invested in the story. They are not invested in the story, they are invested in decontructing the terrible decisions the writers are making.

He also states that deaths need to matter and their shouldnt be any meta-winks at the audience regarding ressurection, that deaths needed to be taken seriously, do they not understand that no one can take character death seriously regardless given the history of ressuerated characters.

>>152763550
Yeah that's why we bring up OMD to them over and over and it always works.
>>152764195
>Slott SS and Waid's FF
Yeesh....
>Taking a trip to Japan for a movie
I Marvel's MO is to be glib in these columns but...that's not funny and if it were true...that's sad as an accomplishment.
>or so people used to say
Brevoort has no reading comprehension as that isn't what the question is about or asking.
>Judd Apatow
Yep. Millennial/Gen X incarnate.
>I Like Me
No comment. I liked it too. But then again, anything about John Candy will tug at the heartstrings and it seems like all anybody knows how to do nowadays is documentaries.
>Getting to the end
Weird and ominous. Or just an unfunny example of being glib and relatable.
>Go away humans
Corny and has no charm compared to 80's editorial responses that actually tried to make glib responses funny while respecting the reader who is level-headed.

Yeah I know I'm being autistic but even bonuses like this just aren't conveying the right things at a time where they have no consumer trust. I'm being charitable and this guy is either awkward/out of touch/or lukewarm.

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>>152761339
He let so much shit pass under his watch.

>>152767575
I'm glad she and Mallory get along now.

>>152767698
Fuck you! Mallory deserves to be locked in a room with Victor Creed.

>>152761339
These viewpoints only worked when piracy wasn't as rampant, but now when there are arguably more people reading comics through piracy thanks to it being easier than ever, it's just stupidity to keep sticking to this sort of mindset years later

>>152761339
>>152761904

>>152761339
>Reflecting on a parallel between the fan reaction to Paul Rabin with Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson no longer being a couple, and the Secret Empire period, when Steve Rogers was revealed as a long-term Hydra agent (later explained as a result of Kobik's reality-altering powers), Brevoort recalled the extreme response. "That was the only one that I got actual credible death threats for. I had to cancel at least one convention appearance because there were some sort of death threat letters that came in from a place that was not that far from where the convention was, and it was like, yeah, can't screw around with this because you never know." He noted how quickly some fans escalated the plot point. "The people who were unhappy made the very quick leap from, oh, he's Hydra to, oh, he's a Nazi, which is not really, in Marvel Comics anyway, exactly the same thing. And also "oh, this was going to be it". Like, Steve Rogers was forever going to be this, and this was going to be the end of Captain America as we know it, and it's a travesty. And, you know, Jack Kirby is rolling in his grave, they would tell me. And I'd be like, you know, I think Jack's fine, sir." But he noted that even though "everybody lost their minds, the fact that people were that upset meant on a certain level they were invested. They were on the ride whether they wanted to be on the ride or not."

>He went further, explicitly stating that he prefers passionate outrage over apathy: "I honestly kind of like it when they go all in like that because it just shows that they are invested in the story and they haven't seen the rope trick so often as to be jaded and not buy into the drama of what's going on because the drama of what's going on is the whole thing. I absolutely want them to take it seriously."

.

>>152769446
>Brevoort was particularly emphatic about avoiding meta commentary that undercuts emotional stakes, especially in stories involving character death or major status-quo changes: "One of the things that I pound on this fairly constantly to the younger editors and to my creators whenever we do this is I don't ever want to see another comic book story where a character dies and other characters stand around and go, 'Don't worry, he'll be resurrected again soon.' Because that's crap. That's trying to be more clever than the audience or trying to tip your hat or wink or go, 'Yeah, you shouldn't take this seriously. It's all just fiction, and it's all just BS.' You know, that doesn't happen in real life. If you're going to kill a character off, big or small, the rest of the characters in your world had better take that as seriously as you do when somebody in your life drops over dead. Otherwise, it's nonsense."

>He contrasted this with the "rope trick" familiarity many longtime readers have (temporary deaths or changes that revert), but argued that the illusion of permanence is essential for drama. "When fans can actually get in on that and go, 'Oh my god, they killed Captain America in Civil War, and he's actually dead. What's going to happen to the Captain America comic now? Oh my god.' And go on that journey even though, inevitably, invariably, eventually, Steve Rogers is going to come back. The fact that you can have that experience and that purity of response, I think, is great. So, I love it whenever they do that. And so, to a certain extent, for all that it's driving a lot of people absolutely crazy, I like the reaction to Paul because it means they're feeling something. They're having a reaction to this piece of fiction, and I'll take that over studied indifference every time."

>>152767575
The pencils on this aren't great, but the inking is barely there (it's a lost art) and the coloring is the crime of the century.

>>152769607
>Brevoort acknowledged growing up with What If?-style tales, where drastic changes were clearly temporary and therefore less upsetting: "You and I grew up with those imaginary stories. So Luther could kill Superman, and we weren't offended by it because again, it's like, all right, it'll be fine next month. Everything's okay. And I mean, we knew we've seen the trick, the rope trick enough times that it's like, yeah, I think Steve Rogers is going to be okay at the end of this thing as screwed up as it is right now."

>Well, I think he may have succeeded in making some Marvel fans… not indifferent today… to recap. In 1987, thanks to Stan Lee's newspaper strip, Peter Parker got married to Mary Jane Watson. Then, twenty years later in 2007, thanks to Mephisto and Joe Quesada, he wasn't anymore and never was. And for the last almost twenty years, there has been a significant vocal share of the readership still angry about that. The Zeb Wells/John Romita Jr Amazing Spider-Man relaunch in 2022 came after Peter and Mary Jane had moved back in together, trying to give it a go again.

>>152763550
Not if you don't have a significant audience in your first place.

When did I stop caring? Just before Civil War 2, I think when they started the 50 State Initiative and they killed off that one kid in the first issue then tricked his parents with a clone and not only that, their 50SI top scientist kept 4 clones for himself. Add on top of that the girl that could fly on clouds was sent to superhero boot camp to learn how to use her powers properly and then was taught how to use a high powered sniper rifle. I stopped reading about there.

>>152769446
Him using Paul in Spider-Man is ironic because it's a perfect example why this mindset doesn't work. It's like in pro-wrestling where the heel will do everything he can to piss off the fans so when the heel gets beaten by the face it's that much more satisfying. But with Paul there was never any sort of pay off. Everything with Paul was just a giant middle finger to fans, there was no story arc planned or any pay off it was just 'oh, you liked Peter and Mary Jane back together? Well, we don't and now we're going to punish you for being excited about them back together'. THAT purposeful pissing off of the audience is what's going to lead to the indifference that Marvel is suffering from now. If Marvel didn't have the Disney money they do now everyone involved would be out on their ass

>>152769624
Brevoort doesn't realize that he cheapened his own taste, cheapened the abilities of his own employees, and cheapened the stories anyway, even if the characters aren't saying millennial jokes of "erm...well he'll be alive again next week." Instead we just hear that shit outside of the comics and then get lambasted for thinking that every other step of the writing process is asinine and retarded under their hands.
You pulled the rope trick in haphazard and unbelieveable ways that still cheapened them anyway.
Also Brevoort is a confirmed cuck/denegerate that enjoys National Enquirer/Jerry Springer trashiness basically with this type of tactic. They forget that fiction and entertainment has a tone and an ethos behind it. Marvel had their own specific one. Then they ruined it and think that these don't matter. They think you should just get over it and then reach the breaking point which is "it's entertainment/comics/kid stuff get over it." Which you know is just what all these faggots default to in the end. Except they forget pirating their shit and posting one response to them takes no effort and makes them seethe eternally.

>>152769801
You could say Brevoort poisoned the well(s).

>>152761339
Makes me glad I am a filthy secondary.

>>152769446
Sounds like the death threat gave him a weird dopamine rush and he's chasing that high again.

>>152761339
>Tom Brevoort Would Rather Make Marvel Fans Angry Than Indifferent
Someone tells him that fans eventually stop giving a fuck. Except Spider and Xfags, they are on that gotta have my batman grindset.
Also, stop thinking of the fans when creating something. Doesn't matter if you are trying to please them or make them angry, you are a slave to a few people that doesn't necessarily represent the rest of the audience.

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Does he understand that most people who hate Paul just know about the character from hearsay? And most people just consider secondhand knowledge of modern storylines like that as additional deterrent from ever reading modern comics again as a whole?
You're not trolling the audience. There isn't one to troll. Pissing off like 8 dudes on Facebook who are probably one degree removed from your own friend circle is not an achievement.

Did Bleeding Cool seriously publish this article yesterday when this particular guy has been saying this for over 20 years now? It's not really news.

>>152769607
Wait is this why civilians rarely die in Marvel despite catastrophic events? Why the Hulk in all his rampages uses super math to ensure no one dies?

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>>152761339
Anger sells more comics than apathy.

>>152764195
Total quirk chungus death

Imagine wasting 20 years of your bosses, employees and your own time to make some strangers angry lmao.

>>152770173
sadly some people get off on that

>>152761339
When all you do is nothing but piss someone off, that leads far faster to indifference than if you didn’t.

>>152769967
>Except Spider and Xfags, they are on that gotta have my batman grindset.

While they have buyers I'm convinced people exaggerate how many there are

X-Men at one point fell to below 40,000 orders in the 2010s and I've heard stories of lots of retailers slashing orders on From the Ashes-era X-Men

The incentive variant collectors are probably what's keeping the sales on those up

>>152770581
I don't believe there was a single X-book in the top 100 best selling comics of 2025. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the closest was Ultimate Wolverine

>>152770286
And it did happen. People forgot how bad things were with ANAD, with Marvel Now 2, and with the 2022-2024 stuff.

>>152770097
Not any more, it doesn't. Anger only works by cashing in the investment and interest that's already there. Do it too often, and people become apathetic, because you've burned out all their genuine interest.

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>>152761339
does he have any kind of proof that this actually works as a strategy? From what I can tell marvel comics are at their worst selling, least relevant point in history

>>152770641
There were a few in the Top 100 of that 2025 list
Deadpool/Batman
Ultimate Wolverine #1
Deadpool/Wolverine #1
Ultimate Wolverine #2

Suspiciously absent from the Top 100 was that big x-event

>>152770728
Civil War angered the fan base pretty hard and sold like hot cakes. However in typical Marvel fashion they took the wrong lesson from Civil War and instead of going "putting these characters in new situations seems to have sparked fan interest" they said "oh man pissing off fans really sells shit!" and that's been their model for the last 20 years. As evidenced by their declining sales over those 20 years 'pissing off fans' does just lead to reader apathy so now they're reliant on things like blind bags and variant covers for sales which, as evidenced by history, isn't a long term fix either. Marvel's going to have to get off their ass and actually put out a quality product again but that's too much work and now that they're owned by Disney they don't have to worry about running out of money so now their staff just sits at their desk and browse Grindr while their South American artists who are paid pennies trace pages from 3D modeling and the writers just shit something out the hour before deadline.

>>152770866
I said the closest was Ultimate Wolverine and can you really call any other Wolverine book an X-Men book anymore? He was poached by the Avengers back in the 2000s and since then his ties to X-Men have been tangential at best

>>152770957
>Wolverine was poached
It the 2000s, Wolverine was everywhere, to the point people began to joke about his omnipresence powers.

>>152770924
Well Civil War didn't sell just because it pissed people off. It was a genuinely interesting idea and potentially good story that was easy to hook people. Now what it ended up being was complete bs but to sum it up as just being something that angered fans is a severe misreading that no respectable company should make

>>152770728
The only times I can think of that working were Civil War and Superior Spider-Man

>>152771082
>Well Civil War didn't sell just because it pissed people off. It was a genuinely interesting idea and potentially good story that was easy to hook people. Now what it ended up being was complete bs but to sum it up as just being something that angered fans is a severe misreading that no respectable company should make
That's my point, Marvel took the wrong lesson from something that was successful, another example is Ms Marvel from the early 2010s. They had a new successful character and instead of going 'wow, fans have really taken to this character who's fun and relatable and down to earth' they went 'oh, fans have really taken to this character because she's brown, let's make everyone brown!'

>>152771136
>Superior Spider-Man
Was Superior Spider-Man really successful? That was the point I officially nope'd out of Amazing, Spider-Man is my all time favorite character, I suffered thru the Clone Saga, the Byrne/Mackie relaunch, Sins Past, One More Day, solo Slott, but Superior was the point I couldn't take it anymore and dropped the book after twenty odd years so I have a pretty heavy bias against Superior so maybe it was successful and I just assumed everyone hated it like I did

>>152770866
Oh also Magik #1

>>152771180
Adding to this it wasn't necessarily because of the -story-, I knew it wasn't going to last and I've suffered through worse but it was Slott and Wacker being complete assholes on Twitter about it that made me go 'I can't support this shit anymore'

>>152771180
It was. I think it's a terrible story, but it did sell well (I think it was hovering around the 90,000s near the time it ended). It was why Marvel kept going back to the well of alignment-flipping (Axis, Superior Iron Man, infamous Iron Man, Secret Empire, the stuff they're doing with Osborn)

>>152771228
Man, that's disappointing. Anyone who supported that shit deserves the Wells run and Paul Rabid or whatever his name is

>>152771136
Clone Saga sold great too. Nothing but complaints online, but it did so well that Harras told them to keep it going through Onslaught. When it ended and people got their boring Peter Parker stories back, sales dropped and they had to do the Byrne relaunch to get enthusiasm for it back.

>>152771245
On the bright side more people reading it now for the first time seem highly critical of it

>>152771294
I don't understand how the current generation can read Superior Spider-Man with Otto all but raping MJ and not be bothered by it...I'm the least prude, 'woke' person there is but that skeeved me out
>>152771249
Yeah but fans were not happy about them pulling the 'Peter you've been following for twenty years isn't the real Peter but a clone, lol'...I was like six years old and furious

>>152771249
>Harras told them to keep it going through Onslaught
That's not really accurate, fans were beyond sick of it by that point and Harras was worried that finally ending the Clone Saga would take hype away from his Onslaught thing

>>152771374
As Life of Reilly put it
> Well, around the time "Blood Brothers" got underway, Marvel reorganized again and Bob Harras, the EIC of the X-Men Group, became Marvel's one and only Editor in Chief. Budiansky, now the Spider-Man "Group Editor," had to answer to Harras. And one of the first things Harras did was tell Budiansky to postpone the end of the clone saga until at least October. Harras's explanation was that there was going to be a big X-Men event happening in April 1996, and he didn't want the end of the clone saga to have to compete with that. Since "Onslaught" happened around that time, I have to assume that that was the big X-Men event Harras was referring to.
>

There was no lack of irony associated with the firing of Bob Budiansky. My understanding is that under Marvel’s “Five Editors in Chief” system, which was in place from the end of 1994 to the end of 1995, each of the EICs had to increase the sales figures of their lines of books by a certain percentage over the course of that year. (Those groups consisted of the Spider-Man Group, the X-Men Group, the Edge Group, the Marvel Heroes Group, and the Licensed Titles/Marvel Alterniverse Group.) The way I’ve always heard it, the only group to meet its sales figure requirements over that year was the Spider-Man Group, under the leadership of Bob Budiansky. But the “Five Chiefs” scenario was ultimately phased out and Harras was appointed the one and only EIC. Shortly thereafter, the order came down from on high that more heads had to roll. To the people deciding who would stay and who would go, the fact that Budiansky had managed to maintain the sales on Spider-Man, and even improve them, during a time when sales were going down across the entire comics industry, was not enough to save him from being downsized.
The Clone Saga was originally supposed to end with Blood Brothers, but they kept it going because it was going too well.

Did the Wells arc actually jump in sales or something

>>152771491
Well, shut my mouth...it's been years since I read Life of Reilly so I must've mashed the 'don't end clone saga till after onslaught' with 'I myself am sick to death of the clone saga' and created a head canon. But I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one sick of clones by that point

>>152767722
But she gave Jen a really nice office. That should count for something.

>>152772075
>Humiliate & destroy her reputation in-court.
>"But hey she has a nice office!"
Are you retarded?

>>152761339
>Marvel executive Tom Brevoort would rather make Marvel Comics fans angry than indifferent... and I think he's succeeding.

Good for him.

Imo it burns fans out and they eventually become apathetic. Like an abusive relationship. Eventually they stop caring

>>152770027
It's because he said it again in a recent podcast.

Bump

>>152761339
>all publicity is good publicity!
That's how Marvel ended up in the dire situation they're in now. People saw through the artifice of their big events and just stopped buying books for over a decade.

>>152773207
No shit sherlock/

>>152771667
It stayed at the top in a time where sales were low to the point a lot of long-time comic shops were closing down, then got mogged by USM 2025

>>152761339
MCU is keeping Marvel alive. If it didn't exist, they would have totally died years ago with this business model.

>>152774540
They really don't need to make comics anymore they just do it out of obligation.

>>152774525
That's so weird for a faux cuckold story arc but hey, it just proves him right. Fans got what they deserved.

>>152761339
Somebody please blow up this jerk's head!!

>>152774791
It really doesn't. Remember, Marvel has been pushing variants a lot so as far as we know it likely was people who buy the comic for the cover and don't read it. The reason I bring this up is because I've seen the Wells run end up in bargain bins often and it's usually the regular cover.

Also remember that at this time Marvel started doing Disney variants for ASM so you also have Disney collectors factored into it.

>>152761339
Yeah, too bad that's the only thing he's been doing, which eventually leads to apathy.

>>152769607
>I like the reaction to Paul because it means they're feeling something
This is the best they can do at this point

>>152775083
They are like bait streamers, now we are heading to the collapse.

>>152761339
From miniature I thought it was the Ayatollah.

>>152771082
CW was Mark Millar recycling a story his ghostwriter Mark Waid did for Red Circle/!mpact Comics a decade prior, except then the Captain America character was pro-reg and the Iron Man character was the resistance. People aren't comfortable with the Millar/Waid connection, but if you reread Red Son you notice a number of stylistic things that are more Waid than Millar or even Morrison. Jupiter's Buttfuck, Nemesis, Trouble, those are unfiltered Millar on his own.

>>152771249
>and they had to do the Byrne relaunch to get enthusiasm for it back
The run editorial had to publicly decanonize
That one

>>152775292
Slurp up that corporate boot.

>>152775268
Yeah hilariously Netflix paid a million dollars for the entire Millarverse (that hadn't already been adapted) and after Jupiter's Legacy they realized his corpus is hot garbage even with good script doctors.

>>152775268
>CW was Mark Millar recycling a story his ghostwriter Mark Waid did for Red Circle/!mpact Comics a decade prior, except then the Captain America character was pro-reg and the Iron Man character was the resistance.
Explain further please.

>>152775323
How am I bootlicking to observe how unpopular Byrne's run was, I'm a fan of the guy but he started fucking with things people wanted left intact (see also: Joe Kelly turning young Peter into a juvenile delinquent), insisting Osborn and Sandman were related because some 1960s artists drew them with the same wavy hair, and like I said the company bent to the fans.

>>152775353
My apologies, I misunderstood you.

>>152775393
No problem.
>>152775344
It was a crossover event book about superheroes being required to register with the US government, written by Mark Waid (who was writing half the !mpact titles). People don't remember because DC's !mpact line (licensed from Archie Comics) only lasted 2-3 years.

>>152775268
CW couldn't be ghostwritten by Waid (it was after the breakup between Morrison and Millar, and Waid was on Morrison's side) but I could believe Millar using the idea from Waid's comic. A lot of people forget that Red Son was in development for years, around the time Waid, Morrison, and Millar were planning to do Superman 2000.

>>152761339
What’s Boogie2988 doing in OP?

>>152774565
>>152774540
I need Marvel/Doomsday to bomb so fucking hard right now. Concord/John Carter levels of bomb.
That way, comics and movies are saved...or a new flavor of fatigue sets in. But at least it would be a new flavor of fatigue....

>>152775292
Chapter One was de-canonized, the Mackie/Byrne and Mackie/Romita wasn't, and it did boost sales by a small amount for a time.

>>152771346
Bro I'm a zoomer and I was in middle school when I first saw a pic of SSM issue 8 and an image of Slott in Gameinformer. The concept disgusted me so bad and Slott's fat fucking smug face needed a swirlie the instant it got any sort of praise from any editor.
Then later when I looked through the internet more and saw THOSE pages, I knew this faggot was instantly a degen and a terminal freak.
So yeah, I see plenty of brainless drones in videos that just talk about costumes and how drippy they are when they don't know or display one single iota of comics knowledge past the 90's. And they always glaze the SS suit, (it's...ok. I can see the appeal) but that's all they know. The instant I'm fucking getting my book finished and published, I'm gonna get the fuck in Marvel and use every jewish tactic they use, and sneak a page in that undoes OMD.

If I went into a lab, gathered some material from a pile of shit, Brevoort, and recent Marvel comics, and analyzed them, would there be any differences in their composition?
Also don't go wednesday warriors, I have a bad feeling you won't like what you're touching on the shelves....

>>152771671
Marvel released a lot of editors in early 1996 as their bankruptcy downsizing started, and it sort of feels like despite maintaining sales, Budiansky was let go because there was a huge fan backlash over the "Peter is the clone, Ben is the real Spider-Man" twist, and someone had to take the fall for it, with the irony being that Budiansky was always uncomfortable with that plot, but as he'd come on board as Spider-Man editor when the Clone Saga was already going for more than 6 months, he didn't want to be The New Guy vetoing a plot everyone else in the office wanted to do.

When Marvel consolidated under one EIC again, one of Harras' first acts was to appoint Macchio as the new Spider-Man editor with orders to end the Clone Saga and bring Peter back. The original plan to end it right after Blood Brothers is usually said to have been changed so that Marvel's two biggest storylines of 1996, Onslaught and the return of the real Spider-Man weren't happening at the same time, which was probably a marketing-led decision to have those things happen in different quarters. But there were also a lot of unresolved Clone Saga plots still left to be dealt with, and extending things for another five months gave them time to wrap up Ben's doomed romance with the burglar's daughter and his blood-feud with Kaine, The Great Game, and the mystery of Traveller and Scrier. They only really dropped the ball terribly on the last of those, it was a JMD plot nobody else working on the books really cared about.

>>152775353
>insisting Osborn and Sandman were related because some 1960s artists drew them with the same wavy hair
What the hell is it with Byrne wanting to make characters related because of having similar hair? At least that time around there was an online community to laugh at him and reject it.

>>152775799
The first Superior suit is legitimately top five best spider-man costumes of all time and it infuriates me that it’s wasted on something as terrible as Superior. The second one tho is just a worse version of the Alex Ross costume

>>152776145
Non-diagnosed autism, it is believed

>>152776145
>>152776193
I used to be the type of kid that if a character was given a non-standard color scheme, it would activate my hatred for it and intense desire to correct it. The Fall of Cybertron multiplayer mode forced you to make weird color schemes for your characters which really bummed me out. But I got over it eventually.
Byrne however, just decided to act like 00's Marvel and force his dumb idea on everyone. Jesus, I hate that shit. Same autism with him and Wanda liking Viz.
>>152776171
Yeah I meant people glaze the 2nd one more. Alex's design was cool but the spider looks too much like the Incredibles logo. I mean his came out earlier but...that's just how it shook out. It also looks like Cap's first Nomad suit with the negative space making it look....weird.
Anyway, if you like the first design, I'd suggest you just look at Larsen's Spidey art and fan art of Ditko's spidey. I like the black taking the place of the blue too as another alt.

>>152775418
Was it good or interesting?

>>152776631
>But I got over it eventually.
A lot of kids can get obsessive over things that don't really matter, it's not necessarily always autism, but a person being aware it's a problem is the first step to trying to get over it, and Byrne instead got himself a job at Marvel so he could make his fanfic canon.

>Same autism with him and Wanda liking Viz.
That was 1988-9, it's 2026 and Marvel still haven't fixed this. They had the perfect opportunity with that mini last year and they still won't do it. And people think Peter and MJ have it bad.

>>152776751
I think Reed/Sue is literally the only marriage from the 20th century still around.

>>152776932
And they wanted to destroy that as well
Likely still do

>>152776932
That's just their vestigial respect for Stan and Jack. And even that doesn't stop them from constantly teasing that Sue might cheat on Reed with Namor, Black Panther, Dr Doom or the mailman.

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>>152761339
He's not wrong, opposite of love is not hate but indifference. But if all you have to offer is constant ragebait, people will get tired of your stories really fast.

>>152777081
>reiterates point haphazardly with no additional evidence, ignoring the rest of the thread
Brown hands.

>>152762708
Same, I stopped reading Amazing Spider-Man monthly with ASM #500 (so I completely missed Sins Past as well) and I clearly haven't missed anything.

>>152777486
>ASM #500
That's insane to me. There's no way most of this is good.

>We were Velma before Velma was a thing!
I don't think that's something you should boast about Tom. Especially if it kills sales in the long run.

>>152777898
A lot of it was.

>>152761339
Story Time?

>>152761339
If hubris-powered power plants existed, he could power the entire universe.

>>152761339
Old news. He said this years and years ago, and we've been shitting on the faggot over it ever since.

>>152775593
I never said Waid ghostwrote CW (it wouldn't have been that shitty), I'm saying it's another case of Millar copying someone else's homework

>>152775747
Doctor Dinky

>>152776658
It was a last-ditch effort to manage declining sales. The best part of all of this? !mpact was published by DC.

>>152776975
>Sue fucking Willie Lumpkin

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>>152776975
>might
Doom was drilling her every night on Battleworld.

>>152777898
The first 500 issues of Amazing Spider-Man are about 75% quality, and the vast, vast, vast majority of the 25% that isn't was from the Clone Saga up to JMS's run. There's a few good things in that era but it has the first attempt at regressing Peter back to his Bronze Age status quo (Clone Saga) and, up to that point, some of the worst comics ever published (the Byrne/Mackie relaunch era)

>>152761339
Why doesn't he aim to create joy for the fans?

>>152781129
Because he's old, fat and bitter.

>>152781129
>>152781146
A while back Bill Willingham commented on that Disney thing about the Marvel offices that mostly focused on Dan Slott and Tom Brevoort and how Brevoort giving Slott shit and bullying him is likely why Slott treats fans like shit online (the whole 'shit runs down' theory) and Brevoort got really butthurt but didn't refute what Willingham said.

>>152781146
So he really is Boogie2988?

>>152781225
These fat bitter incel nerds like Slott and Brevort shouldn't be working on super hero comics for kids. The entire Superior Spiderman run was shitting on the fans. These fatass nerds grew up bullied and now bully the fans with their terrible creative output.

>>152781329
He's the prototype.

>>152761339
>Tom Brevoort Would Rather Make Marvel Fans Angry Than Indifferent

Textbook false dichotomy fallacy. Anger and indifference are not the only two options. Have you tried making fans happy, Tom?

>>152781601
>"That would *buurrrpp* be admitting defeat to the *brrraaappp* fans!"

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>>152775353
>(see also: Joe Kelly turning young Peter into a juvenile delinquent)
Peter was a very angry kid that often felt unloved and unwanted because of everything going on in life.
Kelly is just trying to explore more of that though never really goes beyond the surface.

>>152781499
That makes perfect sense

>>152761339
In all seriousness, Marvel is in a weird spot. The IPs developed by the company over the course of decades are linked to some of the most profitable entertainment multimedia franchises in history. At the same time the comics themselves barely have a commercial footprint. And there are lots of reasons why that is. And there are lots of things that'd have to change to turn that around.

The thing about Brevoort is, then, that he's been at the company for decades. He's been working the editorial and business side of it for a long ass time. And if things right now aren't working very well and they haven't worked for a long time, and things need to change, odds are he and people like him are not going to be the agents of the changes that need to be done. He's part of the rot.

>>152781225
Proof? Sounds interesting. At least like Shooter when he had to work under Weisenger, had a backbone, taste, and work ethic. Slott? Not so much.
>>152779859
What?
>>152781106
This is true.

>>152782561
Someone posted a screenshot from Willingham's substack a few threads ago, I'm sure if you google 'Willingham Slott Brevoort Marvel' you'll likely find it, I think Rich the Leach did an article on it. I just googled and it was the first link. I'd post here but I think it'd flag me as spam

>>152782561
Here:
https://billwillingham.substack.com/p/why-are-some-comics-pros-so-damn

>>152778904
It's old news to us, but it was something he and Jordan D White tried to backpedal from that during the time of Secret Empire (there's a screencap somewhere). The reason it's news again is because Brevoort just recently did an interview now reiterating making the fans angry

>>152782239
One thing Brevoort doesn't understand is a lot of the fans who left, tell people to avoid the comics. Bad word of mouth gets around and there's only so many constant relaunches and events and incentive covers you can do to cover it up in the short-term

>>152783509
My friend has a five year old boy who loves everything Marvel and he asked if he should get him some comics and I told him to stay away from anything published after 2020 (and that's being generous). I told him to get the Epic Collections of the older stuff on Amazon (when they're available)

>>152783743
It reminds me of retailers talking about how there were people, even younger readers, interested in back issues but not new comics (this was pre-Absolute, maybe pre-Hickman Ultimate)

>>152784622
Been a thing for a while. I think DC said their compacts and back issues were surprisingly strong sellers

>>152761339
Why is telling good stories and making fans happy not profitable to these fools.
They know what they are doing wrong, you can have good stories people like instead of controversial crap made to piss people off and make more money?

>>152770097
>>152770696
This, making anger only works temporarily and then people just block and ignore things they don't like. They are passed the point shocking people with controversy

>>152785888
Because historical sales data shows that people stop buying comics when everything starts feeling too safe.

>>152786096
I'm not sure how useful that data is when the whole industry has been in a spiral for decades. Periodic upticks from pissing people off has done fuckall to stop the larger trend. You'd think they would make wholesale, radical shifts especially when there's a ton of evidence that there's a huge market that's not being properly served

>>152761339
I stopped caring a long time ago. I remember when all my coworkers were upset about Hydra Cap, and I was letting to tell them it’s just ragebait

>>152786188
You can still make things suspenseful with out being controversial.

>>152786096
The problem is that I don't trust the interpretation of the data.

Brevoort claims that they listened to the fans and stopped doing an event in 2010, opting for Heroic Age, and it didn't do well. He assumes it's because people want events but doesn't realize that things weren't "repaired" at all. Spider-Man was still in OMD-mode for instance. Why would any reader come back when they weren't doing the bare minimum?

And what people overlook about the Marvel Now to ANAD era was that somewhere during that time Hastings was convinced to start stocking new monthly comics. How much did that affect the sales when they did and how much did that affect sales when Hastings shut down stores?

>>152786844
>stopped doing an event in 2010, opting for Heroic Age
What is this bullshit. We had Siege running for half the fucking year in 2010.
So he's saying the retards originally planned to follow up Siege with another fucking event immediately for the rest of the year?
Christ.

>>152761339
>Marvel executive Tom Brevoort would rather make Marvel Comics fans angry than indifferent... and I think he's succeeding.
He did... until he failed when people realized anger was all they were gonna get and went indifferent. Genius. >>152762708

>>152786844
>He assumes it's because people want events but doesn't realize that things weren't "repaired" at all.
I remember in Heroic Age Cap wasn't back as Cap at all.

>>152785770
>>152784622
DiDio whine that the new garbage he pushed at DC didn't sell as well as fac-similes of classic stories. No self-awareness at all.

>>152781146
Hey! I'm bitter and on the way for the other two, but I'd rather make cool stuff that people are glad to read and that make money.
Then again, I'm not retarded.

I would take this sentiment more serious if wasn't the salty Peter Parker self inserters the ones behind the criticism.
We know, the bargain with Mpehisto was a terrible idea, at conception and execution. Yes, it tainted the character. No, making MJ and Peter a couple again would not solve the mediocre writing.

>>152761455
Absolute static shock would be cool. Maybe lift a lot of the cartoon and make it darker and more stupider absolute style.

>>152787514
This is just cope for you being apathetic. And what I just said is cope for a person being too obsessed with something like hatred for an editor. The real answer to all these problems lies in the middle. And that is to come up with your own shit while educating others sometimes to improving their taste in writing and exercising critical thinking that recognizes Brevoort is a fucking retard addicted to rage and money or an apathetic burn out that thinks he had a major hand in things that improved entertainment when you can bet a lot of Marvel's irrelevance in comics can be attributed to him.

>>152782832
>>152782873
Sorry I took a while to get back to this.
Oh and I remember this article now. Kek, Brevoort's comment is still there. Bill did get it wrong with Shooter's anecdote but Brevoort focusing on that in order to discredit everything else about Bill just kinda seems dumb. Bill made the smart move and didn't even reply at all.

>Wow, this didn't show up on my radar until now. The name is Tom Brevoort, Bill, and it's astonishingly self-delusional that you'd write a whole column about bullying in the comic book industry in which you'd take a bunch of cheap shots but didn't have the backbone to actually attach my name to them. But that's fine, you do you, it's all good.

>Oh, and as long as I'm correcting things, Jim Shooter was hired by Mort Weisinger in 1966, and so if anybody was speaking about him in the way you describe, it would have been Mort. Jim later worked for both Murray and Julie in the 1970s, but by that time he was an adult, and so your anecdote doesn't really apply to them.

>Yours truly

>Anonymous Nobody

Yeah ok. Brevoort you just assumed it was yourself which is akin to a dumbass bully on the playground knowing he is an asshole and self-reporting basically and you get the added bonus of the streisand effect. You'd think a marketing head and a guy who licensed shows would know about how consumers work. But I guess the enraged comment already made that clear. Also man, Brevoort is the type of Reddit nigga to go boom mic drop, FAFO. What a fag.

>>152787514
It would be a start of fixing things.

>>152787992
Unless you wipe out the old guard and get some fresh blood in it isn't the start of fixing anything.
Undoing OMD is a low IQ take as it doesn't fix the inherent problems with modern spider-man.

>>152787992
It really wouldn't.
This is the same logic as DC's "a reboot to fix our problems" is. Rebooting doesn't do jack shit if the same editorial team is in place and its the same batch of writers who fucked things up.
The point of a fresh start is to cut away all the shit that was a problem in the first place. And when it comes to a creative endeavor, its not the characters/stories. Its the CREATORS and EDITORS and MANAGEMENT. The people pushing the character status quos and creating the stories.
A start to fixing things would be a wholesale firing of creators and editors. And vetting in replacements who aren't cocksucking retard. But thats just unrealistic and never gonna happen.

>>152761455
>spoiler
They seem to be listening to those people because Stephanie Williams teased like four days ago that she's started working on something and with King holed up on Wonder Woman for 60 more issues it's probably Vixen or something related to Milestone considering she wrote part of The Dakota Incident.

>>152761375
He's a child molester.

>>152777448
>with no additional evidence
So how's the Marvel sales doing these days?

>>152787593
The "Discrimination Comics" memes are squarely for mainline
It's why AGL doesn't cut it

>>152788458
She's been wanting to write Vixen for like two years now. Might as well let her because nobody can convince me that Firestorm or Jonah Hex are wildly more popular among modern readers than her.

Thinking Marvel is just going to up and replace the old guard is funny

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Surprised no one posted this yet

>>152789143
Wait... I seem to remember people wanting to go back to the Mansion and school. It was only the rainbow faggots who fully drank the Krakoa cult kool-aid who didn't want that.
This crackhead is just making up a narrative to fit his bullshit.

This guy is subhuman filth

>>152776193
99%of guys in comics and cartoons have to have autism in some way. It's like how we have to all have it to be here on co

>>152789150
Par for the course

>>152789143
So he literally admitted it's now just an IP farm starving the livestock. Yup, keep pushing new stories that will flop in other media.

>>152788538
Firestorm and Hex books are just glorified adaptation pitches and an update of the characters. Maybe get some appraisal from the industry and then shelve the characters again. Nobody things they are meant to stick.

Every fucking moron in entertainment says this exact shit and thinks it makes them look like a radical punk maverick etc. Can't even hope for a positive reaction, so pick between a dichotomy of neutral and bad!
The problem with that is all fucking media is doing the same, every business dipshit thinks the same, the audience is not nearly as passionate as they think they are. Nobody's surprised when something they liked is ruined anymore.

>>152761339
Man, Disney shareholders would love links to these interviews and the reactions.

>>152787900
The way he completely sidesteps the entire point of the blog and points out one detail Willingham got wrong means Willingham's absolutely right and Brevoort is an asshole to his staff who then take it out on readers. I really don't get how Slott still has a job, if I talked to my customers like he does I'd be on my ass...not to mention the fact he has a reputation for blowing deadlines and cratering Spider-Man sales

>>152788481
Rich Johnston claims Marvel sales are just fine, despite being given evidence they got whipped in the ass in sales last year but Rich claims the majority of the top ten sales each week are Marvel (which isn't true but one thing at a time) so everything's juuuuuuuust fine.
>in other words Marvel's aware their sales are in the shitter but instead of wanting to do anything to fix it they're burying their head in the sand and ordering their shills to pretend everything's fine

>>152763516
There have been threads about this for the last ten years.

>>152761339
I suppose Donald Duck raping his nephews would also outrage fans. But there is a reason Disney wouldn't allow that.

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>>152763516
Brevoort's been talking about it for years.

Pic related is from at least a decade ago, and Brevoort basically said they loved the controversy over Captain Hydra because it put more eyes on them.

>His mission is to further the goals and beliefs of Hydra," explained Brevoort. "If that involves taking down the Marvel universe, sure. (But) it may not be as simple as that. It’s not like he’s exchanged his white hat for a black hat — it’s a green hat. We knew it would be like slapping people in the face. The idea of Captain America means something very primal and very strong to the people of this nation, and they have a very visceral reaction when you get to something like that. You want people to feel and react to your story. So far, so good."

>>152791012
>We knew it would be like slapping people in the face. The idea of Captain America means something very primal and very strong to the people of this nation, and they have a very visceral reaction when you get to something like that. You want people to feel and react to your story
This is fine if there's a pay off worth giving people that reaction. If you're just continuously doing these 'shocking' things for a reaction without any real thought into WHY you're doing these things people become numb to it and that's how you get the apathy which is where Marvel's at now and why their sales are tanking

>>152789143
Brevoort's a hypocrite who has particular nostalgic preferences when it comes to Spider-Man and the Avengers, who should always adhere as close to their bronze age incarnations as possible, but not X-Men, which should forever be in the Schism era. Apparently that to him is Peak X-Men.

>>152791012
Wasn't secret empire a notorious poor seller? With an ending notorious for being rewritten?

>>152761339
Hey Tom with all due respect? Fire yourself.
This is also the guy who said One More Day would never EVER in a million years be retconned away.

>>152791924
>This is also the guy who said One More Day would never EVER in a million years be retconned away
He claims that's an order from higher up because apparently Disney has no problem with turning Captain America into a nazi at the height of MCU popularity but having Spider-Man be married to his most famous love interest is too far?

>>152792195
Yeah Brevoort sucks at lying. Otherwise his marketing and advice to Akira would have made them a lot more money by now but they can't even get into the book shops/chains who are already knuckle-dragging idiots for putting out so many "#1 New York Times Bestsellers" and Asian Women diaspora "literature". He can't even make a convincing lie about his product so instead they do shit like Hydra Cap but after that and Superior were undone, basically nobody gives a shit anymore because all those people were idiots or casuals who only hear the "bait" aspect instead of the couple of hundred/thousand metaphorical "replies" (fan comments/impressions) to this "bait".
So yeah how long are we betting they go until they go under? That is, unless Brevoort and Yoshida got up to Latour/Rodriguez shenanigans or Slott spouts off and says he was le victim of Brevoort "bullying".

>>152792273
>So yeah how long are we betting they go until they go under?
In the old days before Disney and Marvel actually relied on comic sales they'd all be on their ass after Wonder Woman and a goddamn Martian Manhunter comic outsold Amazing Spider-Man. However now that they have Disney money they can do pretty well whatever as long as they don't rock the boat enough to generate negative mainstream attention (ie Captain Hydra) so until you start seeing Variety or Hollywood Reporter articles about how DC and Image are whooping Marvel's ass in sales I don't think anything'll change

>>152791918
Yes, but to be honest Civil War II really sinked the sales of the Marvel events. After it first number CWII lose readers at a faster pace than any other previous event and let a mediocre baseline for Secret Empire.

>>152792346
Yidney is like doing really shit though, right? And if Doomsday bombs, how close are they into getting into WB's state before they were doing acquisition talks?

It's Disney. They'll hit the emergency button on some live action project and swim in billions.

>>152792444
That's literally what Doomsday is is Disney hitting that emergency button. It'll probably bring in a billion but there's definitely at least some uncertainty considering how poorly all the Marvel movies did last year and the fact that a typical box office safe bet, Avatar, barely cracked a billion and like 75% of that billion was from outside the US

>>152792195
this high up is likely Quesada.

>>152792617
Slott claimed it was Disney

>>152792617
Quesadilla works for Amazon now, anon.

>>152792659
>>152792648
>>152792617
It was Sony. OMD was the last big event before the ASM movie, and that movie hard-rebooted Peter back to the beginning of his career as Spider-Man. Sony wanted synergy with their movie. As long as they have control over his movie character, his comic character will mirror it

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>>152792857
Sony has no say over what happens in the comics.

>>152792985
This is the obligations Sony has to comply

>>152791918
I recall the first issue, or the big reveal one with the meme ending page, sold pretty well. There was at least one story from a comic shop at the time pointing out exactly what Brevoort wanted was happening: they said they had an angry fan complaining to them about the twist, at the cash register, as he was paying them money for the comic he was complaining about.

But, as anons have been pointing out, that kind of hate interest was short lived. You can't sustain a franchise on constantly fucking with the fans. Not a large one, anyway.

>>152792381
They'll never truly can Marvel because it's been proven to be too valuable of an IP farm to discard. The MCU's failures lies squarely on Disney for being too greedy to not let things rest before a proper reboot, and they know it.

>>152794644
Not even about letting thing's rest, really. It was the jump from quality Silver Age stories to Modern age. Nevermind treating the Infinity Saga as the end instead of properly building up the next generation(please buy D+).

>>152761339
Ayatollah Tomeini.

>>152793528
>But, as anons have been pointing out, that kind of hate interest was short lived. You can't sustain a franchise on constantly fucking with the fans. Not a large one, anyway
Not even a smaller one, I know a small dev studio that killed itself the moment when they announced that they were going to use AI

>>152763550
Only if done sparingly. When it's done constantly it becomes expected and nobody falls for it any more. They just stop caring.

>>152791918
>>152793528
Secret Empire had high orders (with caveats I'll get into) early on but fell and underperformed a lot relative to other 2010s Marvel events. I think the only one that did worse was AXIS but that wasn't a spring/summer event like the others

>I recall the first issue, or the big reveal one with the meme ending page, sold pretty well.

Are you talking about the one where HydraCap lifts Mjolnir? That was the Free Comic Book Day comic.

#0-2 had high sales, like 100,000 or more orders estimated, but #0 and 1 were also put in subscription boxes (#0 was in Funko's subscription box and #1 was in a Stan Lee surprise box)

>>152791012
He did talk about it for years, but as others said, he reiterated it again on a podcast interview not that long ago and for a lot of people outside of here it's the first time they're hearing it

>>152794644
If they get enough financial pressure from being asinine morons themselves by squeezing blood from a stone in regards to Marvel movies (it will happen eventually, if Doomsday doesn't bomb), then their asinine morons in charge of the comics being incompetent retards who can't create an interesting character to save their life, then they'll get fired eventually. They will at least can these faggots in editorial.

>>152794873
I think the "big meme ending page" is probably about the "Hail Hydra" panel, no?

>>152795670
That's been one of the biggest problems with the MCU, they jumped way too quickly into modern, shitty comic adaptations (Civil War, OMD, etc) instead of pulling from (and exhausting) almost 60 years of stories they could have adapted, they fast-tracked to the shitty era. Now they've only got the garbage Brevoort and Cebulski have been spewing out the last decade to pull from, and they're going to quickly learn that outside of a few books like Immortal Hulk or Ryan North's Fantastic Four, there's very little good to pull from, and that all comes down to the shenanigans editorial is pulling.

>>152794873
>Are you talking about the one where HydraCap lifts Mjolnir?
No

>>152795831
>I think the "big meme ending page" is probably about the "Hail Hydra" panel, no?
Yes.

>>152781627
It's not just about admitting defeat, these are people who spent their lives working their way into Marvel so they could control the lives of those characters. So they could make their fanfic canon, make their ship happen, and humiliate or kill that character they hate. If there's something that would make fans happy, something that might make the comics sell better, but it's something they personally dislike and don't want, they'll choose what they want over what the fans want and over what would sell better every single time. They'll often do things to a character just to punish the fans for wanting things that the people running Marvel don't want to do.

It's been said before but worth repeating, DC editorial are stupid but Marvel editorial are evil.

>>152788602
>Thinking Marvel is just going to up and replace the old guard is funny
It happened when Quesada became EIC, most of the old guard were replaced, some of them had been there since the 80s. Brevoort was one of the few editors who kept his job.

It's not impossible, you'd just need another outsider to become the next EIC, with the will and the drive to clean house, instead of promoting someone who's spent years within the company. Probably best to look outside of the comics industry entirely for a new EIC and a whole new generation of editors, as comics is basically a small 'talent' pool of the same few people moving between the different companies, most of them will think alike in all the ways that would make them incapable of fixing things.

>>152796796
>Probably best to look outside of the comics industry entirely for a new EIC
This is definitely next-to-impossible. The only people who have ever been the EiC of Marvel were already involved in comics. It's not a "learn on the job" position.

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>>152796796
>Probably best to look outside of the comics industry entirely for a new EIC and a whole new generation of editors, as comics is basically a small 'talent' pool of the same few people moving between the different companies, most of them will think alike in all the ways that would make them incapable of fixing things.
That's what DC did with Jeanette Kahn and it worked out excellently for them.

>>152797280
The thing is that she also worked with people who were connected with comics, Paul Levitz and Dick Giordano

>>152796796
>>152797042
Unfortunately, the guy from outside comics they brought in recently was Kevin Faggy. And before that, we had Ike Perlmutter shoving stupid ideas out of pettiness for a while.

>>152795998
And I know for a fact Immortal Hulk SUCKED and wouldn't be a good representation of Hulk stories.

>>152798082
>Unfortunately, the guy from outside comics they brought in recently was Kevin Faggy.
And there's a really weird thing going on in the Marvel and MCU fandoms where the anti-Feige backlash is focusing itself around his canning the 'creative committee' as being a huge mistake that was the beginning of the end for the MCU, in blind ignorance of how most of the people on the committee were the people who'd been ruining the comics division for years, didn't care at all about pre-Quesada Marvel and just wanted to push their own crap into the movies.

>And before that, we had Ike Perlmutter shoving stupid ideas out of pettiness for a while.
If Ike and the people working under him had just said there are too many X-Men comics, most of them don't sell so well anymore, so it's time to cut back on them, he'd have been 100% in the right and it would've been a position impossible to argue with. Instead they were dumb enough to make it about movie rights.

Fantastic Four got it way worse and nobody complains about that, those fans just silently suffered through it. In the long run, even Inhumans got it worse by Ike trying to turn them into Temu X-Men at a time when actual X-Men wasn't selling great. But we're going to have X-fags complaining about that time when they only had five titles per month for the rest of their lives, and their endless bitching about Inhumans and about a Marvel vs Capcom game, and nobody else has any sympathy for the one time the fandom that gets everything for once didn't get everything.

>>152797280
Quite possibly the most based jewess of all time. Though I don't know too many jewesses but I imagine they cam't compare to her.
Damn, her and Shooter really revitalized both companies.

>>152798263
>And there's a really weird thing going on in the Marvel and MCU fandoms where the anti-Feige backlash is focusing itself around his canning the 'creative committee' as being a huge mistake that was the beginning of the end for the MCU, in blind ignorance of how most of the people on the committee were the people who'd been ruining the comics division for years, didn't care at all about pre-Quesada Marvel and just wanted to push their own crap into the movies.

Yeah especially the people who shit on Ironheart but can't seem to figure out that the co-creator of Ironheart was on the fucking Creative Committee that they're so sure was keeping Feige in check

>>152798263
>If Ike and the people working under him had just said there are too many X-Men comics, most of them don't sell so well anymore, so it's time to cut back on them, he'd have been 100% in the right and it would've been a position impossible to argue with.
OR he could have pushed to make X-Men comics decent again so they'd sell better, but what do I know, I always go with the common sense angle. It was really bizarre in that they killed Wolverine but then brought in an alternate Wolverine for movie synergy, except they were buttmad about not having movie rights.

>Fantastic Four got it way worse and nobody complains about that, those fans just silently suffered through it.
I guess because there were already fewer fans, and they had been under hackman writing already, so why bother? Poor Reed had been done dirty since Civil War and the Illuminati bullshit.

>their endless bitching about Inhumans
In a way, I think it was more of a bitching about what the Inhumans were turned into. The whole Marvel inside joke of turning Blackbolt into a gutless cuck serving as Medusa's attack dog, not to mention Medusa being turned into an unredeemable bitch AND town bike, who seldom if ever got any comeuppance.

I'll say this about Ike, at least he tried to salvage the Civil War movie by trying to push the final fight to be against a villain and reconcile the heroes. That's like, superhero vs superhero 101, and the MCU deliberately failed at it.

Also let's be honest, that MvC did fsil to deliver what anyone wanted out of it.

>>152761339
Marywhorecucks ain't even human, he's based for treating them like brainless monkeys.

>>152798527
Honestly I kinda agree with this. It's been 20yrs and the same key jangling still works.

>>152798527
Hi Dan

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>>152798527

>>152799312
The same could be said for you.