What were they actually fucking thinking with this movie? This wasn't the "naïve but means well 60's", this was made in the politically correct 90's. There is absolutely no way they didn't have a team of Native American historians saying hey, maybe it's a bad idea to age up this real teenage girl and turn her into a heart throb for an Englishman. People say Song of the South or Dumbo is racist, but this movie is far more offensive than either of those just by the merit of trying to turn a real story into some sappy Disney romance.
>>153154371>politically correct 90's
I wanna add it's a beautiful looking movie, but when you read who it's inspired by, it's crazy how off the mark it is. Especially with how they portrayed Ratcliffe who I'm 90% certain they only turned into a villain because his name has the word "rat" in it.
Ah yes the politically correct 90's where bullying was rampant just for being black and/or gay. Where people who mutilated their junk were called crazy. Where crossdressing was seen as a joke and nothing more. Good times.
>>153154371The thing about the Dumbo Crows is that they're actually not as bad as you think. They're dressed in legit high fashion/well off (For the time) Black Clothing.Song of the South isn't even that bad, it's just the fact that Slavery is Racism adjacent and Disney wants to be squeaky clean. And the 90's wasn't politically correct, that was the 2000s.
>>153154397The 90's is when diverse casts and turning women into girlbosses truly took off. The 90's was focused on blacks and girls instead of gays and transgenders like now.>>153154426Case in point. This guy only thinks politically correct = the gay/trans crowd.
Native American cultural experts ruin everything so they can complain when people tell them to fuck off.The thing that stuck out most to me rewatching this was just how rotoscoped much of the animation seemed.As a kid I thought "nugget for my weenie" was the funniest thing ever.
>>153154445Yeah here's where you are wrong. The women back then weren't written to be "Girlbosses" they were written like actually people. The girlboss thing didn't happen til like the late 2000s at best.
>>153154435>They're dressed in legit high fashion/well off (For the time) Black Clothing. Poor blacks spending all their money on clothes has been a stereotype for centuries. There are several songs about it.
>>153154489The "girlboss" back then was called the "strong independent woman". They were similar tropes with different executions, but both were a response to women's roles in movies. The modern day girlboss makes no sense to people because at that point, we had already had 20+ years of well-written female characters to more than play "catch-up" (or whatever the goal was) in Hollywood. The girlboss is a flanderized version of the strong independent woman, but to be flanderized, it has to already exist. The 90's was the jumping off point for it.And in fact, it was SO common, it came with its own secondary trope where the tomboy character would have an episode dedicated to how they secretly loved girly girl things like dolls or dresses or cooking or whatever, and had to hide it from their friends. I saw this trope so many times from Roseanne to Recess to Powerpuff Girls.
>>153154371What makes you say she's aged up and not a teenager? Isn't this just the same as that 15-year-old mermaid wanting to get donkeyplapped by a human?
>>153154426They were, in fact, good times, and for exactly that reason.
>>153154573Disney's always been shy about the age gaps of their hero + heroine, but it's really hard to see these two characters and think there's a possibility they are both younger than at least 18 years old. "It's just the art style" be damned. These two look like adults in their 20's.
>>153154609Honestly John Smith was probably better off being Pocahontas actually husband which wasn't as creepy. Still fucked up.
>>153154609The guy is definitely above 20, I'd say 25 bare minimum given that he's off being a conquistanigga in an unexplored land, but for Warren, isn't that just her indian features? You know, they're known to look less neotenous what with the jawlines and so on.
>>153154371They should have just not named the characters after real figures in history. It would still have aspects that reinforce colonial stories but its legacy would be the heart of the movie instead of the historical inaccuracy.
I like that the approach to the sequel was "ok let's make this a little more accurate by introducing Pocahontas' actual husband and put her on the journey to England that killed her". Winning strategy.
>>153154371I have an ongoing beef with this movie because they aged up Pocahontas to force a Romeo and Juliet plot when Captain John Smith had brought 12-Year-Old Samuel Collier with him as his Squire.Sam should have been co-leads with Pocahantas while Smith dealt with the colony.
>>153155886Her son lived and eventually returned to the New World.He was the Patriarch of a ton of wealthy Virginia planters and thats basically the only reason anybody knows who Pocahantas was.
>>153154371What they were REALLY thinking was that they were expecting this to be their breathtaking masterpiece; their hand-carved still-life. While the movie they did before this (the Wacky Deli that was 'The Lion King') was some quick thing they did on the side.
>>153156475Turns out leaving a small tight knit team of artists to do their own thing more or less unsupervised was what made the masterpiece lol.
>>153154371Movie's alright.>>153155886It was surprisingly out of the Disney formula, to have her move on to another love interest.>>153154397>>153154426>>153154435They really tried, but at least there was some pushback so it wasn't an enforced rule everywhere. And those token characters still had some margin to be written as actual fun characters, sometimes. Like, Lola Bunny was already making people roll their eyes.
>>153154397>>153154426Political correctness as we know it began in the 90s, hell there were plenty of shows in the 90s making fun of political correctness, zoomzooms
>>153154371I swear I seen three or four in the past week different threads About the Pocahontas movie ranging from why did they take Pocahontas to how dare they made the Disney villain at Disney villain in this who had the name of it for real life person who some reason certain people find was just too nice to the Native Americans because of report on how he got betrayed so he has to have been perfect because to the people who has reported it was all the native fault. Why am I seeing so many of these recently?
>>153156727Yes Ratcliffe accidently skinned himself alive with sharped oyster shells one day, could have happened to anybody.In all seriousness I think Pocahontas, Hercules., and Hunchback were bad ideas for Disney to adapt because they couldn't commit to telling the stories right.Certain aspects of all three films were done extremely well bit the stories were incredibly weak due to "Disneyfication".
>>153154371>>153154634>>153156412I did look into a bit about Captain John Smith yes he was definitely a perverted creepy guy about indigenous women of places he went but even with his creepy person already he probably was a much better trading partner and reader with the Native Americans and not being as high class as his historical replacement the villain of the movie He probably understood who he was dealing with a lot better than them and wanted have done practically everything he could have to piss them off and actually be seen as a beneficial trading partner to have a loan instead of in antagonizing them to the point that John Ratcliffe Piss them off to the point that they decide to kill him and they made that overly the top story about how exactly it was did and why to say we didn't do anything wrong it was all the Native Americans.
>>153156782>Yes Ratcliffe accidently skinned himself alive with sharped oyster shells one day, could have happened to anybody.>>153156782I did look into a bit about Captain John Smith yes he was definitely a perverted creepy guy about indigenous women of places he went but even with his creepy person already he probably was a much better trading partner and reader with the Native Americans and not being as high class as his historical replacement the villain of the movie He probably understood who he was dealing with a lot better than them and wanted have done practically everything he could have to piss them off and actually be seen as a beneficial trading partner to have a loan instead of in antagonizing them to the point that John Ratcliffe Piss them off to the point that they decide to kill him and they made that overly the top story about how exactly it was did and why to say we didn't do anything wrong it was all the Native Americans.
>>153156813>I did look into a bit about Captain John Smith yes he was definitely a perverted creepy guy about indigenous women of places he wentWhere did you find that?
>>153154371> a team of Native American historians saying hey, maybe it's a bad idea to age up this real teenage girl and turn her into a heart throb for an EnglishmanThey did have that team, but they were paid to do stuff like teach the animators to draw wig wams instead of teepees and to not make everyone wear feathers in random places. East coast tribes had not gotten a lot of visually accurate media exposure at that point compared to the plains tribes. Pocahontas has its problems, but at the time it was still applauded for breaking a number of incorrect stereotypes.
>>153156856I remember watching a documantery showing... Alan Menken, I think? Saying he was trying to avoid a classic stereotypical injun beat, and then going "...Why, again? This is actually pretty good", and we got "Steady As The Beating Drum".
>>153157333*documentary
>>153156727White people are always having a moment on america’s internet
>>153156837His media literacy YouTube essay tosspod told him so.
>>153154371>maybe it's a bad idea to age up this real teenage girl and turn her into a heart throb for an Englishmanthat's called being true to the source material you dumb faggot>but it's not le historically accurate!1111!!!1!1it's mythology, it doesn't have to be historically accurate.
>>153154397You gotta understand, these kids are fucking stupid and gullible. They look at the tokenism and head-in-the-sand attitude of the 90's and think to themselves "wow, society completely eradicated racism!"Because, again, they're stupid and gullible.
>>153158445Yes because I want historically accurate in my cartoon with a talking tree
>>153154404I wouldn't doubt that my nigga
>>153156782>In all seriousness I think Pocahontas, Hercules., and Hunchback were bad ideas for Disney to adapt because they couldn't commit to telling the stories right.
You think you own whatever board you troll on. 4Chan is just a dead thing you can claim. But I know every shitposting incel. Has a waifu; has a fetish, has a name.
Being from a native family, we just thought it was cool that natives were in a Disney movie. Same thing with the depiction in Peter Pan. It's just kinda nice not being completely forgotten.
>>153110206
>>153154371>What were they actually fucking thinking with this movie?They were thinking they could repeat the success of Aladdin with another hot brown woman and hot guy. They forced the orginal story to match that.
>>153154435>The thing about the Dumbo Crows is that they're actually not as bad as you think. They're dressed in legit high fashion/well off (For the time) Black Clothing.The VAs for the crows liked them. The deal with the crows is thar ultimately black people and those offended on their behalf dont want a record of black people speaking with a vernacular less sophisticated than the whites of the same year. Yes, many whites sounded just as country as those crows but most movies with that type of character don't show those people.>Song of the South isn't even that bad, it's just the fact that Slavery is Racism adjacent and Disney wants to be squeaky cleanSong of the south is technically post Civil War and Uncle R is free. And the Brier Rabbit characters and story are from black women and written by a white man. The problem with song of the south is thar Uncle R is too happy and gets along with the white people. Black people are just not interested in anyone that survived slavery that doesnt have any criticism for the south. And admittedly, given that he was the smartest person in the movie (The children and white parents are dumb as shit and almost get the kids killed by a bull) and he probably should have had some criticism of the world around him and not been walking around happy go lucky.
>>153154445>The 90's is when diverse casts and turning women into girlbosses truly took off. The 90's was focused on blacks and girls instead of gays and transgenders like nowIt was still better than the 2000s or 10s. In the 90s, a strong woman was a smart, fit, attractive woman that could get shit done. Princess Jasmine, Gadget, etc. They were pretty good characters compared to now.
>>153154609>These two look like adults in their 20's.All Disney princesses look 23
>>153158475Unironically yes.
>>153154371They had a native sensitivity advisor on the set but she kept going on about BWC and asking white artists to choke her, so they had to wing it based on the notes she left behind.
>>153154371dude it's the ''we have never heard of anything about kimba the lion despite the director lived in Japan for years and we made some white lion concept art'' disney
>>153158677>Being from a native family, we just thought it was cool that natives were in a Disney movie. Same thing with the depiction in Peter Pan. It's just kinda nice not being completely forgotten.Supposedly the girl Indian is a bad ass in the book
>>153154371politically correct stuff was endlessly goofed on in the 90s (by the mainstream)
>>153159147>As for me I've been rejecting and hating smart and tough women bullshit as early as Velma from Scooby Doo and Wilma from the FlinstonesYou sound really annoying to be around "Hey, you guys see this cool ghoul school cartoon? Oh man they are really cute"****screeeaaachhhh***** "nnnnoooo, women can never be strong intelligent characters.....nooooooo.....ghoul schooolllll issss a lieeeee"
>>153154397This guy gets it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SvW5Bt6ibc
>>153154371Should have made a cartoon musical about Lewis and Clark.
>>153159147This rant feels like it ends saying there is nothing manlier than blowing your bro
>>153156782>I think Pocahontas, Hercules., and Hunchback were bad ideas for Disney to adapt because they couldn't commit to telling the stories rightHercules and Hunchback were fine, though. The former wasn't trying to be anything more than a goofy musical comedy and excels at that, while the latter is a genuinely ballsy and well-done film, even to this day. Hunchback especially has aged really well over time.What pisses people off about Pocahontas is how it's not based on a fictional story or legend. It's an actual historical event with a lot of bad blood still present. It just comes off as tone-deaf at best and whitewashing at worst.
>>153154450Or they are like the "native American" culture expert who worked on Star Trek Voyager & you find out years later they weren't native they were Jewish & made everything up
>>153154371Would have been nicer if they adapted some actual Native American folklore. You could even set it during the early colonial period and have a Native-English relationship.
>>153160065Hercules is pretty shit though. Hades and Herc only meet face to face more than halfway through the movie.
>>153161596Doesn't even have to be a period piece like Pocahontas. I wouldn't mind a more contemporary setting
>>153159210No you’re both retarded. The term politically correct got big In the 90s for a reason. Just because people made fun of the conceit or did otherwise doesn’t mean it wasn’t around.
>>153161596>>153162028so reservation dogs?
>>153162065>gets upset that film that opens with a musical number about how it's not a faithful adaptation of mythology is not a faithful adaptation of mythology>gets upset that a film that presents its lead as a Christ-like figure has its lead behave in a Christ-like manner Hercules is to Jesus Christ Superstar what Lion King is to Hamlet.
>>153154371>What were they actually fucking thinking with this movie?The Oscars, they wanted another "Best Picture" nom after Beauty and the Beast made it in.As you can see, it didn't work. Honestly, outside of the animation, there really isn't much going for it. And the whole thing is a very uncomfortable watch BECAUSE it's based on history, and then changed in order to make it "family friendly" when the actual events are anything but.
>>153156412Or Thomas Savadge. Could even have Glown Up Tom meet Pochahantas at the movies end, on his way to go help out with talks with the Algonquins.
>>153154371>You can't make this native princess an object of affection for a princely type character in a Disney movie!>You can't age her up to a number people would accept! You have to keep her as a 13-yr-old banging an Englishman!
>>153154435Uncle Remus was a free man, most people have just never watched the movie
>>153159170Honestly, she was pretty boss in the movie. Stoically refusing to cry or rat out the other kids to save herself.
>>153162218No they know that. The problem is he's a friendly happy guy and not angry with a chip on his shoulder against white people over slavery.
>>153162264>The first thing they show them doing is celebrating a battle victory over a different tribe BEFORE the Europeans showed upThe funny thing is they open with them returning from battle against another tribe with what's his face bragging about how many of them he killed, and then later on at the end of the movie those same guys the Powhatan tore apart show up to ally with them against the English, no grudges held.
>>153154371>What were they actually fucking thinking with this movie?YES!
>>153159227>Should have made a cartoon musical about Lewis and Clark.And how they fucked everything until reaching the Pacific coast?Do you think they double-teamed Sacagawea?
Superior Pocahontas.
>>153154371>What were they actually fucking thinking with this movie?
>>153162340Just look at that boob-slide.
>>153162340Wait a second... is Pocahontas only wearing a top and panties in that sketch?
>>153162340That fucking grin gets me every time
>>153162340Pocahontas? More like BAZOOKAS
Pocahontas in her underwear.
>>153163321Once again, mogged by the other one.
>>153161812And? It’s ancient Greece. Gods were meddling with people without needing to see them face to face
>>153154450But if they can't gaslight you about slavery and scalping, you'll stop giving them tribute.
It was blatant oscar bait after BATB nomination, then Academy invented Best Animated Feature category so cartoons won't compete with real movies anymore.
Nakoma is better
>>153155886I liked the sequel much more desu
>>153154371 Looks like Disney's not ready to abandon Pocahontas entirely.Disney Dreamlight Valley – Whispers of the Wind Update – Nintendo Switch 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KuoZaU5UPU
>>153162144It was funny to find out Pocahontas was the "A-list" project in Disney Animation and Lion King was the project nobody wanted to get assigned to or were demoted to, funny how things work out.
>>153165621See >>153165556 It's less than 24 hours old on YouTube.
“Hey, it worked for Dances With Wolves””.>some Disney exec, probably
>>153160065>>What pisses people off about Pocahontas is how it's not based on a fictional story or legendit is based on a fictional story though, specifically John Smith's "The Generall Historie of Virginia, New-England, and the Summer Isles".
>>153162314>>153162218No, the problem is that he's a walking minstrel show and the actor wasn't even allowed into the premier because he was black
Pocahontas 2 saves it a little for giving us the superior ship and for putting Pocahontas in a ballgown.
>>153154371The most racist thing about this movie is that they didn't make the savages anywhere near savage enough lol
>>153166976>He made it up!>Why? Because I said so that's why!
>>153167528 No the most racist thing was the implication of Pocahontas considering what happened to her real life and honestly there's a bunch of reasons to not take that account at face value. Not to mention it doesn't mention how it got to that point with the Native Americans that they wanted him dead,
>>153167184Dress is wrong and they didn't include her bitchin hat.
>>153167567Maybe they just thought it was funny.
>>153154634John Smith being deified as the hero works because the record was already written to do exactly that.He becomes a lot more of an annoyance when you realize he was the one in charge of writing things down, and did it all from the third person perspective.So so much of the record is just>Everyone did the stupid thing and John Smith said to do this thing but no one listened, should have listened>Everyone was in trouble when John Smith did most the work saving the day>Okay, this time John Smith fucked up BUT TO BE FAIR, the others were distracting himDude was a hack
>>153167655To be fair John Smith was the leader of the place who didn't get killed and a whole bunch of his people along with him by the neighbor native people Manage and actually managed to set up an amount of trade with them . He was far from perfect with sexualizing the village cheap starter he encountered as a 10-year-old girl into an adult but he was the one who had the people doing practical work in the colony.
>>153167574I think her cartoon ball gown is fine. Her portrait outfit is probably not a ball gown anyway. It looks more like a walking dress for wearing in the middle of the day. Maybe she’d attend a hunt wearing it. If she’d worn the portrait dress in a different scene that woulda been a really cool reference though. Actually now that I’m looking at it I’m wondering if it might’ve low key influenced some of Rolfe’s clothes. It is more masculine looking by today’s standards. What frustrates me is that there’s relatively little merch featuring Pocahontas in the ball gown. I get that her normal dress is more recognizable and iconic, and that Pocahontas 2 has themes where her ball gown is kinda problematic. But like, she finally looked like she matched the european girls in the Disney Princess lineup, and I wish they’d embraced that more because her gown would look so nice lined up next to their gowns.
>>153167655>>153167729As a 16th century European mercenary he was permitted to indulge in a bit of bullshit for self promotion reasons, but the man could walk the walk as well as talk the talk.He definitely beheaded some Turks in single combat, maybe not as many as he said but enough to be impressive.
>>153168181Also very few people in history at presumed dead in a powder explosion then show up years later
>>153154371Is kinda weird how they bring her back in the Wreck-It-Ralph sequel 2 movie.
>>153170432To be honest, she didn't have it as bad in Wreck it Ralph 2 as other Disney Princesses. Just look at Jazmine and her hooked nose...
>>153170432>>153170580At least she got cool magic hair that somehow blows around in the breeze even when she's indoors.Still, I feel like none of those princesses should've showed up in the movie. Their scenes felt gratuitous. But even if they were cut, that probably wouldn't have been enough to salvage the movie. It had lots of other issues as well.
>>153167528Americans always like to change things up when race comes into question, EpicBeardman for example
>>153154371I think it's a good movie.I think people are trying to find malicious intent in the film and its message but I do believe this was Disney trying to be politically correct and diverse, but in a Disney way. People want a serious documentary PSA or something, I guess, but Disney wanted to do what worked for them, musical fantastical fairy tales, but at the same time appeal to "POC" (i hate that term)
>>153170580Oh jeez, what did they do to Jazmine?
>>153165621>DO YOU KNOW MARIO 2 WAS DOKI DOKI PANIC?
>>153154371This is what was liberal and politically correct back then. These things change over time. Maybe take this as a lesson to be a little more open minded and understanding since whatever your beliefs are now will be viewed through a very different lens in 20-30 years.
>>153173124I want it on record I didn't start the DiD
>>153173263Also mods didn't like historical accurate did
>>153173282
