Reported to Hot Topic editionPrevious: >>155287120
Is Radioapple actually going to happen?
>>155330086I get that. I’m just worried that, executed poorly, they could really bungle the issue of the misogyny that people have used the Eden story to justify by essentially saying, even if unintentionally,> “Oh, it was *this* woman who ruined everything, just not the woman we thought.”They just gotta be careful, is what I mean.(Sorry, had to repost here cuz I realised I’d posted after the new thread had already been made)
>>155332486I think I remember a few threads back how Eve would transition into Lute.everything goes wrong after the damn fruit, every tragedy slowly chipping away the old Eve.getting kicked out of Eden was the start, struggling on Earth wasn't as bad due to Adam sticking with her no matter what, she grows her family and so far nothing happens until the Cain and Abel happens.when Abel died so did Eve, because her children began killing each other for a myriad of reasons and evil was unleashed fully on Earth, and she introduced...it got so bad Heaven flooded the Earth to reset it, with 6 people as the only survivors.even when she is in Heaven and tries to be what she should had been, all she finds in her descendants is scorn and hate, ostracized in Heaven and constantly judged...she isn't the mother of all she was meant to be but rather the source of all their pain and suffering, no matter the ages.Eve would wither and die, the old and kind Eve, in its place comes Lute...and everyone except Adam is glad Eve is finally gone.Lute has nothing in common with anyone, Adam is her only home and constant.
>>155332486Are you that one guy that doesn't like the fandom baby-ing Eve or something like that, about how Heaven doesn't show favoritism to Lilith and Adam? If so, we can cut this here. Because I don't really agree.
>>155332682> Eve would wither and die, the old and kind Eve, in its place comes Lute...and everyone except Adam is glad Eve is finally gone.Yeah, that's the proposed concept I had to roll my eyes at. Not just because it comes across too much as a 2010s fanfic trying too hard to crank da feelz, but it misses out on a few important things about heaven in the show:> It's a place where that's, by and large, not populated by douchebags like Hell is.> Even if there would certainly be resentment, taking it to levels where people tried to assassinate her (yeah, that was a serious proposal) or celebrate like it's 1999 when she's gone would feel like overkill on the writers' part, especially for heaven. I just think, 'really?'> Pentious. Like, once he shown to be on the level, pretty much in heaven was alright with him. His slate was clean. So if Eve went to Heaven, that would mean hers was, too. If they could welcome and accept him, why not her? Pen even got a parade float, for crying out loud.Like, from what we've seen of Heaven, if Lute/Eve went there when she died, I just don't believe she'd mentally be where she currently is now.Now, if she originally *went to HELL* when she died, absolutely.>>155332693Uh, no? I'm not that person, although more than one person can disagree. I do think, however, that as stated above, there's such a thing as going way overboard with it. And as more than one person has pointed out before, how much favoured could Adam really be, given that no one seemed to care much, aside from Eve, that he died?
>>155332682>that pic
> > Pentious. Like, once he shown to be on the level, pretty much in heaven was alright with him. His slate was clean. So if Eve went to Heaven, that would mean hers was, too. If they could welcome and accept him, why not her? Pen even got a parade float, for crying out loud.Hmm, granted, however, not everyone's sins are equal.But yeah, all it would take, really, is for the Speaker to say, "Guys, it's cool," like she did with Pentious, and most Winners and Angels would probably shrug, "Yeah, I guess..."Lingering resentment over the millennia, sure, but to the extremes some people are talking about? I doubt it.> Now, if she originally *went to HELL* when she died, absolutely.Yep, that's what I'm banking on, too.> "I have witnessed first hand..." How do you know, Lute? Were you *there* for a very long time?> Vosk described her as a 'demonic angel'. Perhaps because... she was a Sinner demon whom Sera used her powers to artificially transform into an angel 7 years ago? Hmm?
>>155333055Ooo, where’s this from?>>155333082>>155332961I mean, guys, think about it: Eve is the original sinner, the one who gave it entry into Earth. That’s a big one. And given how virtually no one believed redemption was possible and Pentious was the first, like… cmon, where’d ya’ll Think she ended up?
>>155332961I agree but Viv would probably go with the usual fanfic angst shit since she grew up with that shit and she is also a fucking fujo.it should be more subtle, her reluctantly let into Heaven and just tolerated.also, I don't see any victim taking Eve being in Heaven at all as they wouldn't have traumas or bad lives if it wasn't for her.there is no respect for Eve and no one cares she is the Mother of Humanity but rather the one who polluted Humanity and thus indirectly being the cause of their pain.the Angels? just see her as the one who fucked up and a failure who ruined it all, because Angels are assholes.Humanity? 2/3 of them would hate her fundamentally for everything wrong with them and others, leaving 1/3 to treat her with decency.Adam may be the only person in Creation who doesn't hate her and gives her a home, what she needs and never once faults her for anything unlike the rest of the species she spawned.no insults or anything, just rejection and ostracized, not welcomed and alone, can't even be close to her kids since their families give them shit and see she is a problem for them despite not holding any grudge, but its clear that the last thing anyone needs in Heaven out of all places is broken family thus Eve is forced to cut contact with them.Hell or Heaven or even Earth...she is seen as the one who fucked everyone over as bad as Lucifer, she gets zero sympathy or empathy from anyone, no friends or family and no one likes her, Eve gets fucked in the head from it she becomes Lute to cope.
>>155333430This. And yes, she is the biggest victim in this context. Boggles my mind how people try to make her, Lilith and Adam in equal standing. They're most certainly not.
>seven years ago>lucifer, lilith, sera and adam are finalising the extermination deal>lilith: i have to wonder what eve thinks about all of this...>adam, genuinely confused: who? >sera: -makes cut throat motions at lucifer and lilith- what if eve got flat out memory-wiped from heaven?
>>155333710Then Adam wouldn't have recognized Lucifer's "Your first wife didn't seem to hate what I had to offer... or the second."
>>155333430>>155333457>the only one who can sympathize with Eve is the same bastard who left it in her position>Lucifer is the only one who can empathize with her>Lucifer is the only one who knows how being hated by every living thing in Creation feels like>Eve is aware of that fact and it makes her hatred burn hotter>Sera sees both Lucifer and Eve in the same light>the guy who fucked her over with that fucking fruit is the only other being who can relate to hergoddamn...
>>155333457> And yes, she is the biggest victim in this context. Boggles my mind how people try to make her, Lilith and Adam in equal standing. They're most certainly not.Okay, again... I don't think anyone is really saying she isn't. Of course, they're not on equal footing. The issue is more about not going way over the top with it... like, to the point where someone said Lilith -- the Queen of fucking Hell who caused all this -- would be welcomed back and celebrated in Heaven over Eve? As the person I'm about to respond to said, there is a need for *some* subtlety here.>>155333430Yeah, I'll admit that's a much more subtle and nuanced way of going about it. But again, there's some problems:> Again, Pentious. It's telling that over the last couple of threads, no one aside from Magic (who caveated that not all sins are equal), has much of an answer to this. If the first Sinner who has been redeemed from Hell can be welcomed and accepted, then why can't the original Sinner who went straight there upon death? Like, it's a big purple snake-shaped problem there.> her reluctantly let into Heaven and just tolerated.Let's not forget, Heaven doesn't know what it takes for a soul to make it, and they just show up there at the gates.And then there's the problem: if she's despised by Heaven and Hell... okay, then how does the show resolve it in a satisfying way? Because everything she'll do by the end of the show will pretty much only cement it further.It's... like the original concept for Zootopia, where the problem was that the world was so bleak and broken that they couldn't resolve it in a way that felt satisfying.You know what would be funny? Say she did go to Heaven when she did, and the Angels made her adopt the Lute person for "her own good" and protection. And then... upon Season 3 or 4, when all is revealed, Abel and the rest of Heaven, much like with Pentious, just pretty much accept her. That'd actually be pretty funny in a cosmic sort of way.
>>155333775Sigh. No, guy. There aren't Lucifer/Eve parallels. For fuck's sake.
>>155333710>>155333732Yeah, what the replier said. That, and people would be asking, "Well, if Adam's the Dad of humanity, who's the Mom?"Like, it's not something you could just wipe out of memory.
>>155333710>>155333732Eve probably was the one mindwipped or split because she couldn't take being herself anymore nor the hate from everyone.>>155333763both Lute and Charlie would love ponies, Charlie definitely was a pegasister and Lute never came out of the stable.
>>155333777>Okay, again... I don't think anyone is really saying she isn't. Of course, they're not on equal footing. The issue is more about not going way over the top with itOh my fucking God, how many times do I have to explain this to you? My entire point is that I don’t agree that it would be “going way over the top” in the first place. Eve’s story, as it has been presented, is already fucking extreme. “Don’t go over the top with her victimhood” means absolutely nothing to me when the circumstances surrounding her ARE already over the top. The scale of what happened to her is the entire fucking point.
>>155333791it wasn't a parallel but a fact, both Lucifer and Eve are hated roughly on the same level and by everyone.
>>155333839I’ll be honest, this is aimed more at the general fandom because I know people hate this take, but I find it funny how readily both the show and fandom baby Lucifer as this enormous victim of everything that happened. Nobody seems particularly concerned about whether that becomes excessive or self-indulgent. But the second you make Eve the biggest victim of the Eden situation, suddenly it’s, “Okay, well, we don’t want this to become too fanfic-y or cliché,” as though Hazbin itself isn’t already exactly that lol
>>155333906I would argue Lucifer moreso.
>>155333937agree but she did accept that damn apple in the end.Eve could have told Adam that they should abstain and not reproduce as to not compromise her children but didn't...its that irony which makes it so bittersweet, the guy who ruined her life is also the only one who understands her.
>>155333914FUCKING FINALLY.I am glad someone put it into words at last.
>>155333984Eve was the equivalent of a two year old while Adam / Lilith that of 10 year olds. Meanwhile old man baby faced Lucifer is who knows how old, but still MUCH older than these three. It was Lucifer and Lilith's fault for coercing her. Nope, no parallels between Lucifer and Eve/Lute. He does not understand shit about her.
>>155333777>And then there's the problem: if she's despised by Heaven and Hell... okay, then how does the show resolve it in a satisfying way? Because everything she'll do by the end of the show will pretty much only cement it further.>It's... like the original concept for Zootopia, where the problem was that the world was so bleak and broken that they couldn't resolve it in a way that felt satisfying.Ooof, now that's a deep memory cut, I hadn't thought of that concept in a long time.But yeah, fair point, because with that kind of impossible situation, how do you resolve her arc then, where she's in any way a better situation than when she began?>>155333906> "both Lucifer and Eve are hated roughly on the same level and by everyone."Are they? Because so far we haven't heard any characters' opinions about her. Unlike Lucifer, Eve at least has the excuse of being tricked.At the very least, she'll be a controversial figure, sure.>>155333914I can only speak for myself, but I do *not* baby Lucifer. He has a ton to answer for, and I think Season 3 is going to go in that direction as well.
>>155334029>I can only speak for myself, but I do *not* baby Lucifer. He has a ton to answer for, and I think Season 3 is going to go in that direction as well.Yep, that's why I acknowledged that a handful (like myself) hate the fact. But it's the truth. And Eve IS the biggest victim, that's just fact.
>>155334046> "And Eve IS the biggest victim, that's just fact."I really don't see anyone disputing that.>>155334026Ehhhh, it depends on how they're going to be portrayed in Eden... if we get any flashbacks at all. I'm seeing a lot of speculation in this thread, but the only answer that can be given is "wait until Season 3 and 4, then we'll see."A lot of the problem comes down to execution.
I love how the fandom portrays Adam as the biggest objectifier of women when Vox's introductory song in Season 2 has he and his buddies manipulate some girl, force her into extreme porn, trademark her holes (!), plaster her all over social media then berate and discard her most likely on threat of death
>>155334026I hope they don't go with that mind shit, doubt Viv will apply it but we both know Lilith and Adam are as old as Earth...therefore their sense of time and development would be different.I dunno, in part I agree with you but I also disagree that Lucifer doesn't understand, he does NOW.back then, Lucifer must had been an insensitive faggot and straight up not think like a Human at all.currently? He got to learn and understand very fucking much how it feels to be brought low and hated.we should have time as a measure.pre-fall, post-fall, newbies, canon.
>>155334217As if Adam's better. Someone's else's extreme objectification and misogyny doesn't dilute his own.
>>155334232Arguably Adam is better than that yes.
>>155334029> But yeah, fair point, because with that kind of impossible situation, how do you resolve her arc then, where she's in any way a better situation than when she began?I mean... aside from her dying? I can't see it.The show is about redemption, right? Okay, well, if Eve went to Heaven, that would be the universe saying, "You don't need redemption; it's all cool." And AGAIN, if Heaven can by and large accept Pentious, why not her?If everyone in the universe basically despises her, then... what's the point for her to even try and be redeemed? A fascinating question, but the conclusion of her arc/Charlie would have to try to answer it. What conclusion could the show give her that would feel complete?Cuz with the scenario being proposed here, it would have to mean the majority of Heaven just magically changing their minds and being nice to her.This is why I just think it just makes sense for her to have gone to Hell when she did. That would cement in her mind that redemption was not possible.
It makes sense to be Gnostic story because Yaldabaoth and the Archons were assholes
>>155332182fatty
>>155334226>straight up not think like a Human at all.He still doesn’t. Lucifer is upset that giving humanity free will blew up his life, but that doesn’t mean he actually understands the people who suffered because of it. He still talks about sinners (former humans, mind you) like they’re inherently pieces of shit. Sure, some of them absolutely are, but the entire premise of this show hinges on the fact that this judgment cannot be applied to all of them. Lucifer can hate himself, regret what happened and feel like absolute garbage for thousands of years while still fundamentally misunderstanding what he did and who was affected by it. Those things can coexist. He very clearly has a long way to go. And frankly, I have a hard time reading him as genuinely remorseful toward Adam and Eve specifically when he wears the apple all over his fucking ensemble, turns it into his family symbol, treats Adam like shit when they finally interact and then talks about Eve like she was some sexual conquest he gets to rub in Adam’s face. These are the first two people his actions directly fucked over, with consequences that defined the rest of their existence. If Lucifer truly understood what he did to them, I would expect at least some sensitivity toward that history. Instead, he wears the event as branding. He doesn't understand shit.
>>155334259Nope. Both equal pieces of shit.
>>155334232it doesn't, but in principle many wouldn't agree with you.he is bad, no doubt about it but so far he hasn't been as bad as you think he had been.I rate Adam right in the middle, 50/50, he isn't THAT good but he isn't THAT bad.his worst defect and flaw is his misogyny.now lets compare Valentino to Adam...or to Vox, to Alastor, to the Overlords, to your average Sinner.Adam is an asshole but not an evil one except towards other evil people and his one fuck up is treating Charlie and Vaggie the same way, because it came to bite him back and die for it.
>>155334263> Cuz with the scenario being proposed here, it would have to mean the majority of Heaven just magically changing their minds and being nice to herYeah, the original Zootopia concept. The only way the collars went away by the end of the film is if the prey population just magically changed their minds overnight after generations. It'd feel like a cop-out.
>>155334309Not really. I can't picture Adam forcing women into extreme rape porn.
>>155334321Reducing Adam’s morality to “well, compare him to Valentino/Vox/Alastor” is already missing the point. Someone else being worse doesn’t somehow make Adam 50/50, and misogyny is far from his worst offense. This is a man who has spent thousands of years participating in the systematic slaughter of Sinners, openly enjoys doing it, calls it entertainment and has absolutely no interest in whether any of those people are capable of becoming better. The show then outright proves that they are capable of redemption through Pentious, so “he’s only evil toward evil people” doesn’t hold up. He’s killing an entire population based on the assumption that once someone ends up in Hell, that’s what they are forever. His “one fuck up” was treating Charlie and Vaggie badly because it eventually got him killed? Wrong. That makes his moral failing sound like he simply picked the wrong people to fuck with. Charlie spends the entire season trying to demonstrate that the people Adam considers worthless can change, and Adam’s response is essentially that he doesn’t give a shit. That’s part of what makes him awful. Valentino being fucking Valentino doesn’t retroactively make what he’s already done morally neutral. He's just as bad as Valentino / Vox / etc: it's a different flavor, that's it. Tired of this Lucifer and Adam woobification, I swear.
>>155334295I stand corrected and I am liking this thread already.but still, who else could sympathize with Eve? I doubt Lilith does and I think she will be vainglorious.
>>155334396Nope: he would annoy and pester them like he did with the virtue chick and then feel like he has the higher ground because they agreed to it, and call it 'dubcon'
>>155334475Which isn't exactly the same thing as marketing them in extreme porn movies (Val canonically makes bestiality porn among other things), trademarking their body parts and flooding the market with obscene material so they can never escape it.
>>155334544lol
>>155334451Well, canon speaking... Charlie will probably go the whole 'magic of friendship route'. Vaggie is a good candidate, surprisingly. Emily... But who knows, like MM said: we just need to wait for season 3 and 4
>>155334445it doesn't, Adam is bad.my point is the fact he isn't as bad as you make him out to be.there is a reason why he made it to Heaven after all, I doubt it was a deal that welcomed him upstairs as he was the first one to make it into Heaven as far as we know.he must had been good enough to go to Heaven and over time grow bitter, doesn't excuse his actions and attitude but in principle he isn't as bad.your point is valid and honestly true, I agree but also I don't think he is as bad as you think he is.
>>155334601Looty just exaggerates how bad Adam is because she wants Lute to 'find herself' and date Emily.
>>155334601>my point is the fact he isn't as bad as you make him out to be.He is. I'm not saying he's THE worst. He's up there. Horrible people CAN get blessings and apparently a ticket to Heaven - this is in Helluva Boss, shown with Lyle Lipton. What other corrupt businessmen and shady priests are up there?>there is a reason why he made it to Heaven after allBy sheer technicality of not eating the fruit (according to him) and for leaving with Eve (assuming that indeed his genuine choice)>he must had been good enough to go to HeavenAside from not eating the apple, therefore technically not sinning, he's the first (white, according to the former employee. All the eden humans are) man. That's a golden ticket.
>>155334640False. I like Emily/Lute in a weird annoying sibling kinda way. Lute is going to bang Adam to Hell and back. That's what Lute wants and ain't nobody going to stop her. I would like her to find herself, but I think that character arc is reserved for Vaggie.
He did nothing wrong>But.. what about when he! Angels don't make mistakes simple as
>>155334700She's a BABY
>>155334713Fresh outta the ribcage
>>155334761Steaming hot with a nice BBQ glaze. Yum,
>>155334778Don't eat her. He needs to reproduce with that
>>155334827No wait. The BBQ glaze is his spunk. Now it makes perfect sense. Only then does he "eat" her.
>>155334671I highly doubt dubious characters would end up in Heaven due to sheer incompatibility and thus end in Hell but other than that I agree.also I am of the belief that Adam started good but became what he was over time.
>>155334836Do you really think Adam has the willpower to eat her out AFTER he cums. I love him but I think he's a cum then sleep guy.
>>155334856>I am of the belief that Adam started good but became what he was over time.I can see him being spoiled as fuck since the beginning: give the eldest kid everything he ever wants, never say no, replace his toys, it's a recipe for disaster. I can also see him being as sweet as Abel, which is why he hates the kid. I don't care: I want all. I want none. I want to KNOW ALREADY. All this speculation is frying my already dead brain.
>>155334900Sigh, that is indeed, very true. At best he falls asleep mid way before he's snoring into her cooch.
>>155334926It won't stop Lute humping his sleeping face until she finishes. When he wakes up he's got slick all over his chin
Lute either shaves her pubes with military precision or doesn't shave at all and has a jungle bush down there and I can't decide which. I dont think she uses wax
Fuck why are there no damn leaks?!
>>155334907maybe so but we'll have to wait.>>155335471season 2 taught them to keep shit behind closed doors.
>>155333285>Ooo, where’s this from?Some drawfag iirc.
>>155333285Lute is Eve. She's upset that redemption is a thing because she probably had to go through all these thresholds and is still not considered a pure soul. Sam and Viv have said she has gone through psychological conditioning and has been bred bred to believe in Heaven's hierarchy. Sera has the power of creation, and is confirmed to be up there in terms of power. She can absolutely keep Lute there manually, so to speak. Lute was told her entire existence that redemption is not possible, because she ate the fruit, the ultimate sin. Of course she's going to be fucking upset that these sinners can be truly redeemed and she can't. She has to atone continuously with the exterminations. Jessica called her a demonic angel, and a collider article stated that she is on a path of redemption for Adam. The exterminations are her atonement. That's why she looks so panicked when Sera realizes that SP was redeemed.
>>155334596Thanks. This is the problem: we only have so much information at the moment before we start filling in the gaps with speculation and conjecture.I can see the direction of the conversation has changed, so I'll just leave this here for you guys to chew on: there are now two questions the original Anon poster put forward that the thread can't seem to answer.> 1.) If Eve is just universally rejected and despised by Heaven, Hell and Earth (despite the fact that modern humanity sees her more as a victim), even if she went straight up to Heaven upon her death... then, really, what is the point of redemption in this show *about* redemption? How do you then resolve her arc in a way where she's in a better place than when she started that doesn't feel phoney or forced? (i.e. everyone is heaven now magically liking her) Because we all know Lute is going to be redeemed by the show's end - it's a given - but if the show goes out of its way to say that redemption wouldn't tangibly mean anything for her, what the hell else is she meant to do? Why *shouldn't* Eve just kill everyone then? A fascinating question, but the show would still need to try and answer it, and I don't see how they could.> I mean, guys, this show's second season finale ended with the literal power of friendship saving the day! .. 'kay? I just don't see them making Eve's situation so unfixably, relentlessly bleak that redemption doesn't mean anything. > The biggest obstacle facing her most likely is not the whole universe being against her but her own mindset and trauma. Her heart refuses to open itself to redemption. Once she does, only then can she move forward.More than likely, she will sacrifice herself to save Charlie and/or Abel to stop Roo in Season 4, accepting oblivion... only to open her eyes and realise she's back in Heaven. Her soul is cleansed.> 2.) If the souls of Heaven can accept and welcome Pentious, then why not Eve, whether or not she had to be redeemed first?
>>155336427Don't think Anon was disagreeing at all that she was Eve, I think he was arguing where Lute!Eve likely ended up first when she died. And yeah, it makes sense she went to Hell first, and Sera agreed to bring her up when the deal was struck.
>>155336643No, I don't think she want to hell. That's my point.
>>155336596to be fair, one way she can redeem herself is simply accepting her fault in her original sin and stop making others add to her sin.essentially, she stops Abel from walking her path, accept him for whom he is in the same way he had always accepted her despite not knowing Lute is Eve and pretty much allow herself to die.she gets redemption but she also ends like Adam, both are gone for good.but since this is Hazbin Hotel, we also need other things and here is where the opposite happens, Lucifer and Lilith do not do that nor feel bad over what they did, which teaches Charlie why Hell exists.some people simply are more comfortable in Hell and sinning than ever consider redemption and Heaven, they don't change because they don't want to and there are those who simply do not want to pay up for their sins in Hell.some people deserve Hell or are right at home which would make Charlie see from Adam's and Lute point of view for the first time ever.
>>155335089The latter
>>155337116I think the one thing Lute would allow herself to have is personal hygiene, even if bushy she would keep herself clean.an in an ironic twist, I see Emily as a dirty bitch.
>>155336596Her Magic, original Anon here. Thanks for that. You probably put them into better words than I.> More than likely, she will sacrifice herself to save Charlie and/or Abel to stop Roo in Season 4, accepting oblivion... only to open her eyes and realise she's back in Heaven. Her soul is cleansed.Sera would find herself braking down in tears upon seeing Eve. Her Evie back, not the twisted reflection she’s had to look at for the last 7 years.They hardly exchange a word. They don’t need too. Sera, overwhelmed, just lunges down and pulls her into her arms. She’d never let go.
>>155337305>the twisted reflection she’s had to look at for the last 7 years.???? Twisted reflection? You mean the one that Heaven made? You serious?
Ain't no way I'm seeing people trying to absolve Sera of what she did to Lute/Eve, assuming the theory is true. Holy shit. I think I've seen it all.
>>155337305I kinda see Sera finally showing her grief, everything she held back.just see this as reference starting from 1:10https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bRwVgloZ74Sera will cry for everybody she failed and then she will die herself, not physically no but the type where you are dead in life.
>>155337164>I see Emily as a dirty bitch.She's like the repressed catholic girl in college
>>155337405Yeah no matter what, Sera is always pants on head retarded
>>155337405Sam literally said she was psychologically conditioned by Heaven. Viv has gone on record to say that she has been bred to believe in the hierarchy of Heaven, in the system. But you know, totally not Heaven's fault or anything. It's Lute's. Right.
>>155337435there is a reason why she seems to like Hell and Sinners so much Anon, she is the most human like Angel and not in a good way.
>>155337539Angels in heaven are just too gentleSinners have that built up hate and anger that makes them put everything into it
>>155337475I’m one of the many supposed “fans” of this character who will still fight tooth and nail to acknowledge every horrible thing she’s done. I’m not interested in sanitizing Lute, making excuses for her, or pretending she doesn’t fucking love participating in genocide. She does. That ugliness is part of her character, and I have zero desire to erase it. She's a sadistic zealot monster who honestly needs to be put down.But swinging so hard in the opposite direction that we’re now denying she’s also a victim of the system that created her? Claiming there was no indoctrination, no psychological conditioning, no influence from Heaven whatsoever on how she understands morality, duty and her own purpose? That is fucking insane to me. Both things can be true at once: Lute can be responsible for the atrocities she willingly commits and still be someone shaped by an institution that taught her those atrocities were righteous. Acknowledging the latter does not absolve her of the former.
>>155337621hmmm...it could be hard and I doubt Viv has the brains to pull it but Lute should win, victory where Adam found defeat.essentially, turn Charlie's dream against her and make Heaven self destruct in civil war, Redeemed Sinners vs Winners...make the victims of those Sinners lose hope in Heaven and take extreme measures to destroy them.Lute manages to grant Charlie a pyrrhic victory and let her dream destroy Heaven, yet expecting to fall from this Lute waits for judgement and execution...what Lute gets is different, ask for her help since even the innocent that have nothing to do with this are suffering.aka be forced to help Charlie unfuck her fuck up and have a talk at last.
>>155338898I think you responded to the wrong comment.
>>155338946realized that now, fuck.
sayhave anyone here ever given thought to the split personality adam theory?that adam depending on his current states behaves differentlyeden adam has a different personality than earth adam, winner adam is different from what a fallen angel adam or sinner adam would behaveso if adam returned as a sinner or fallen angel, his personality would be radically different from how he was in heaven as an angel, yet he needs help to achieve synthesis and be whole at lastessentially the adam we see is just part of a whole
>>155334023i bet reading all that took a big load off your chest
Realistically there would still be sinners that are mad at Heaven for the genocides because they were personally affected by losing a family member or friend. I don't see the demons being very forgiving so it's odd they decided to call off the war and try to get redeemed. I had this silly idea that some of the sinners at the Hotel are trying to redeem themselves so they can Trojan Horse their way into Heaven and get revenge.
>>155341042Season 3 is going to 'own the chuds' with a migration allegory and Lute will be a caricature of the European far-right, calling it now.
>>155339362the speed at which pop-DID larpers would cancel viv if adam turned out to be an attempt at DID representation would break several world records and be absolutely hilarious so i support this.
>>155341180Damn I love Lute even more now
>>155340760the most squishable marshmallow of a man, thank you to whoever on the team declared him a fatty.
>>155341219Viv will cause suffering by bringing him back as skinny or just not super chunky.
>>155341180viv somehow made heaven israel and hell palenstine/middle east last season so I can only hope it's going to be just as weird with the political messaging in s3
>>155337348Yeah, I’m not going off the idea she went to Heacen when she died.
>>155341225I prefer buff Adam. Twink Adam would kill me.
>>155341229Based on this I'm getting the premonition that the overall message of S1-3 will just be advocating a 1-state solution, with an added ICE/immigration thrust because Viv is Latinx, while using the Bible as grist This will mark the absolute peak of Libslop in Western millennial writing and the sheer cringe will trigger a chud golden age.
I just realized that my Trojan Horse theory may not be far-fetched. Sir Pentious was shown to be an insufferable asshole in Like You (the Song) and even though he was redeemed the dude still did bad stuff in Hell that realistically would take a long time to atone for. Viv also mentioned that she believed that some characters (or was it people?) shouldn't have the chance to be redeemed. There is also the fact Heaven has a court, army and gatekeeper (I think that's what they're called) which could be to protect against redeemed sinners or maybe, plot twist, to protect against asshole winners in general like Adam, Lute and Pentious.
>>155339362Not sure about this but I wonder if sinner/fallen angel Adam would be brought back but because of the turmoil of his situation he develops new personality/identity to cope with the situation. Like his mind can't handle being stuck in Hell and losing his angel status so it dissociates so hard it created a new Adam(suggestions for any male names that start with A or L that fit) to survive in Hell. Could be a parallel to Lute. Lute starts breaking down and Eve's coming up to the surface while Adam can't handle it so he creates a new guy to deal with his shit. But unlike Lute who's aware she's Eve and it's just a disguise for her with Adam his new identity is completely unaware of his old one who's been relegated to his subconscious. Would be interesting if the new guy is almost a Lute rip-off showing that Adam respected and admired her strength subconsciously.
>>155341249I wouldn't mind buff Adam . Especially if he's more strongman style where he has some meat on his bones.
>>155341270>Viv also mentioned that she believed that some characters (or was it people?) shouldn't have the chance to be redeemed.Source?
>>155341269>the absolute peak of Libslop in Western millennial writingI actually find it interesting and not really offensive since it's something to think about instead of the show fully going into the 'heaven bad, hell good' directionviv is at least trying to be more grey on stuff and not going full kids cartoon on who's the baddieit's insane how many 'reviewers' took something like Vox Populi to be some orange man bad song and not a song about how populism is dangerousgenuinely makes me think everyone on both sides is a drooling retard
>>155341330https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCkPhvA5wzo&t=2499s
>>155341345>genuinely makes me think everyone on both sides is a drooling retardIt's kinda of a fact both sides are drooling retards. Like at this point the vote is just going to whoever can pretend he has the socially acceptable amount of chromosomes.
>>155340760This is one of the best and comfiest Guitarspear arts of all time.
>>155341373The embed doesn't work so copy and paste the link or highlight then click open link in new tab.
>>155341373>>155341395Thanks!
>>155337435Didn't her VA insinuate as much?
>>155341345neighbor he says 'make hell great again', is a media tycoon, in season 2 he's racist, and in real life he was a white man called Whitman. It's not really that subtle, you just know the producers were patting each other on the backs about how smart they are.They do make a DEI joke in the same song and also there's the 'women in stem' line. but I assume there were other voices in the writing room holding back the tumblr kids. The overall thrust is hard to miss.
>>155341219>thank you to whoever on the team declared him a fatty.It was this furry and there's photos of them in fursuit and Adam cosplay. Thank you vore furry.
>>155341440thank you vore furry.
I feel vindicated that Adam's design was apparently influenced by a based furry vore artist. Knew I found him so appealing for a reason
>>155341500Cursed information. I'm glad the character is dead, in that case.
God I love GuitarPrincess so much it's unreal!
>>155341555I guess there's just no accounting for taste! (BA DUM TSS)
>>155341574Omg. It's the GuitarPrincess guy.
>>155341437>he says 'make hell great again'that is the ultimate populist slogan literally means nothing and retards will latch on to it thinking they can relive the past>is a media tycoontrump was a nepo baby that had everything handed to him vox wasn't like that at all >he's racistbeing racist to your business partners privately is nothing like trump either>in real life he was a white man called Whitmanyeah (((whitman)))look up surname immigration adaption
>>155341617I'm never late. I come precisely when I mean to.
>>155341574it can be extremely cute.>>155341696>plot twist adam ends up pregnant instead thanks to magic shenanigans
>>155341696Are you a wizard my dude?
Almost done with the Lute doc, you guys. I just need a short tiktok, an interview (nothing to do with Hazbin) where Jessica is asked about her role in Hazbin and she mentions Lute, and some secondhand information from a con.I still want to cry because I didn't record Jessica's streamily print signing this past Thursday, so you'll only be getting my short secondhand notes for those. Hoping it'll be done by Monday.
>>155341777Yaaaaaaay I'm genuinely super excited for thisThank you again for doing it!
>>155341761Who knows.
>>155341274I think it should have Lute in it as a base but be the opposite of what Adam usually is, more cold and methodical but also good at building anything.ironically make Adam's best traits shine without losing his structure, like Eminem and Slim Shady or Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde type of deal.the new Adam treats Hell as a game to be won and he is a good damn player.his name shall be...Zeb(Gift of God), if he was the first and his name started with A then its natural in Hell shall start with Z.
>>155341944sinner adam still looking recognisably human bothers me. his entire thing is pride in being the first man, and yet he dies demanding to be worshipped, elevated above the man he is. his sinner form should be the lowest of the low, stripped of the humanity he took such pride in and then rejected, so that lute can answer the most important question. yes, she would still love adam if he was a worm.
>>155342119I mean I'm more expecting him to turn into some Goat demon looking creature. Would be pretty funny if he ends up looking more like average portrayal of the devil than Lucifer. You could even use it as gag where a newly arrived sinner start shitting his pants only for Adam to point out that noseless pale onceler looking midget is actually Lucifer much to the confusion and disappointment of said sinner.
>>155342119Reminds me of a fic I read where Sinner Adam's like a giant rat and he fucks Lute on a bed of garbage with his disgusting rat penis and she loves it.
>>155336596> How do you then resolve her arc in a way where she's in a better place than when she started that doesn't feel phoney or forced? (i.e. everyone is heaven now magically liking her)Exactly! Redemption has to mean something for Lute/Eve. It’s why the cleanest path for the show to do with her is:> she went to Hell> Sera gave her passage but she had to take the identity of Lute> She believes no one would accept her> By the end of her arc, she has truly atoned and ascended and, to her disbelief, Abel, Pentious, Emily, et al accept her. In Abel’s own words,> “… and if anybody who has a problem can deal with *me.”* (Pentious puts his hand on Abel’s shoulder and nods to say, “I as well.”)And yes, upon coming back, it’s still very telling how no one still has a good enough answer to why Pentious would be accepted, but Eve rejected. The only one I could see is just to artificially make Eve’s story sadder and the souls of heaven look like fickle douchebags. But that’s cheap.>>155337059I mean, again, not a *bad* route, but I can’t help but feel killing off allows the writers to approach the idea “what if redemption doesn’t amount to anything?” without having to really answer it.Also, given how Vosk has said she’s living into Season 5, the rumour that Adam and Eve are a villainous power couple, and how Vosk said the first five seasons make more for the beginning of her character journey… chances are she’s not being killed off. At least from my point of view.
>>155342158The fuck?
>>155342158Oh, what a horrible day to be literate.
Sera's job is to separate the wicked and virtuous plus she didn't know redemption was a thing until after Pentious ascended to the heavens so this idea that she let Eve in Heaven is nonsense.
>>155342285Ok.
>>155342285Didn’t Sera make it clear they don’t know what qualifies to bring a soul to heaven, just that when they do, they care for them?The only circumstances I can see her allowing Eve passage is if the latter really is the mastermind Vosk alluded to, the one who came up with the exterminations to resolve the problem with Hell. And if Sera found herself not with many alternatives and a fondness for Eve that never went away, she may have reluctantly agreed.Given what she’s allowed to go on behind closed doors, this isn’t too believable.Remember her “there’s so much you don’t know” lyric before the smash cut to Eve singing?
Yeah, no I'm not buying Lute going into hell after her time on Earth, and then Adam making a deal with Lilith to bring her back to Heaven, because then that implies he knows who she is, and as implied by Viv, Alex and by the Adam hallucination, he does not. Her going to Hell makes no sense. Otherwise, she wouldn't be so upset at the notion of sinners, meaning supposed damned souls whose fates are already decided, ascending because she did the exact same thing. If she was allowed into heaven from the get-go, manually, by the higher powers, and of course she's going to think she has a leg to stand on, even if she's supposed to be down in Hell. Her arc wouldn't be "meaningless" if she didn't go to Hell first.
>>155342312Thank you! Stay it louder please. Otherwise, there wouldn't be such a shock when seeing these souls from Hell ascending into Heaven because it already happened with Eve/Lute. And Lute's just as surprised as everyone else is.
>>155342257>>155342279works/81437086Isn't unconditional love just the cutest thing.
>>155342312Letting a sinner like Lilith and Eve in Heaven probably has some serious consequences.
Jessica isn't saying Lute is a mastermind for no reason. She struck a deal with Sera most likely. Hell, it could even be the dynamic Jessica was referring to specifically when she said she couldn't spoil anymore about it. Given how incompetent Sera is, I could see this being the case especially since it's implied that they have spoken about this very topic before. " This changes things" and " please! You know I'm right deep down". Lute is absolutely up there because of a deal or arrangement with Sera.
>>155342337Time to torture myself.
>>155342350From who? Sera Is canonically the most powerful Seraph. The Speaker is directly under God, and right under her is Sera. Viv said there is "technically' a class above the Seraph, but the Seraph are not made by another angelic class. And she has gone on record to say that Sera is THE Seraphim. And in this show, she's the one that not only created Earth, but the first humans. For all intents and purposes, she is acting on God's behalf. She can pull whatever string she fucking wants. And she already let Lilith in, the one who was partially responsible for what happened to Eve. She's the bigger sinner of the two. If she can let Lilith, the mother of demons into heaven, someone who is not supposed to be there, especially after she started a rebellion against Heaven, she can let Eve in.
>>155342316>>155342316We’re only really assuming Adam was in on this deal. In all likelihood, he didn’t know shit about fuck. It was most likely between Sera, Lilith, Eve… maybe Rosie as well. We’ll see.Also, she Didn’t do the exact same things as Sinners like Pentious. Her being given the cheat code to be in Heaven ain’t the same thing as having your slate cleaned. To her, it’d be more like, “But I had to basically cheat my way here… if he can do it.. no! NO! It’s a trick, it’s got to be!”
>>155342316>Yeah, no I'm not buying Lute going into hell after her time on Earth, and then Adam making a deal with Lilith to bring her back to Heaven, because then that implies he knows who she is, and as implied by Viv, Alex and by the Adam hallucination, he does not. Again you're falling into the trap of thinking Adam made the deal and the important stuff (he didn't). If Eve went to Hell she likely bought her place in Heaven herself. Possibly by giving them important information which would have raised the Angels fear about a war with Hell. She might have also sold them the idea of exorcists ( if they're using her as a template for making them) as a solution. Her being pissed at Pentious makes sense because she cheated her way into Heaven like Lilith. She didn't earn it but this "piece of shit snake" was somehow deserving of a honest place in paradise and not her.
>>155342367Nobody is forcing you to read rat penis Adam. Maybe you're just a little intrigued by the concept of tender loving from a needy and insecure rat man struggling to deal with his newly discovered fuzzy sheathed rat penis.
>>155342399So we share the same sentiment, just not the same execution. Because for me, if she managed to bypass the route to hell, and have Sera agreed to whatever arrangement they had so that she is able to reside in heaven, knowing full well she's supposed to be in hell, then it makes sense she's shocked and panicked that a damn soul actually ascended. As in, genuinely redeemed themselves, to which I say, that Eve is not redeemed in that manner. She's there, essentially, forcefully.
>>155342406>Again you're falling into the trap of thinking Adam made the deal and the important stuff (he didn't). If Eve went to Hell she likely bought her place in Heaven herself. Possibly by giving them important information which would have raised the Angels fear about a war with Hell.I could maybe get into this, if she has a connection with Rosie. That would legitimize the supposed rumor that Eve and Rosie are connected
>>155342408Sounds like the average plot of a Warhammer Skaven fanfic.
>>155332182How do I learn to draw faces like these?
>>155342367Do a dramatic reading and post the audio!
>>155342379I'm just saying that having Lilith and Eve in Heaven would have unintended negative side-effects.
>>155342337>Adam stared at her wide eyed and nodded, watching as she slid downwards until she had his cock in front of her face. It was dark gray, darker than his fur, slimy from the slick fluid that protected it while it was sheathed, and it didn’t look entirely human. There was foreskin but also a distinct ridge halfway down the shaft that made it larger at the base. It was like… Well, like a rat penis. It was dribbling pre-cum already and Lute was having mixed feelings.
>>155342477this author would probably love 'the secret of NIMH' and ship mrs brisby/justin like anyone with good taste.
>>155342501Unbelievably I've never watched that so now I know what I'm doing this afternoon.
>>155342453Yup. Luckily for the two of them Sera's kind of a dumbass who can't see the obvious red flags that these two ladies bring.
>>155342508and once you watch that make sure you watch the sequel.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk40fCiofjs
Do you think we'll see any character being redeemed in Season 3?
>>155343422Idk. Maybe. Ngl Pentious being redeemed was kinda out of left field since we didn't know shit about the sin that damned him to Hell until S2.
>>155343422i'm wondering if it'll be non-dramatic and just background characters suddenly appearing in heaven looking confused, and we won't see named characters being redeemed until the final season/in a flashforward over the credits.
>>155343470It was also odd because you'd assume Pentious committed some serious sins in life like Alastor from the way he acts. Even if they had revealed his sin back in Season 1 it still doesn't make sense that, that's what landed him in Hell when he acts much worse than he did in his old life.
>>155343806i assume sins committed in hell somehow don't count against your redemption, which could be very funny if valentino's sins had nothing to do with what he does in hell and he ends up redeemed as is.
>>155343605Angel might get redeemed in Season 3 since his whole arc will hinge on him not killing Valentino (who is a villain in Season 3) like he did his father and he was also making a lot of progress.
>>155343892I think this is why Heaven has an army, court and gatekeeper. It's too keep these types of redeemed but ultimately evil at their core souls out.
>>155343892I was pointing out how odd it is that Pentious got redeemed because you'd assume he's in for serious stuff. Also, that his backstory doesn't add up with his current personality since he wasn't this awful in life.
>>155344530Based Adam
>>155344530god i wish i could sit down with viv and be walked through adam's design, from the colour scheme to the construction. everything about it screams 'hide my shape, obscure my humanity, leave no weak points' especially the spikes around his neck but so far that's not a factor of his personality at all.
>>155343161Finished the first one. It was pretty excellent, what beautiful backgrounds. You're right, Mrs Brisby and Justin are cuteThe second one sure looks like something released direct to movie but mama didn't raise no quitter so it's queued next
>>155345975fluffy bird adam...how much of the don bluth catalogue are you missing? i always found 'thumbelina' kinda charming but i wouldn't call it one of the greats like 'land before time' or 'all dogs go to heaven'. although if you're looking to watch a terrible movie honouring the late and great tim curry, watch 'the pebble and the penguin'.
>>155346024I'm ashamed to say Bluth is a giant gaping hole in my /co/ knowledge... I've seen Anastasia, All Dogs and Land Before Time I and that's it. His style is very pretty though! I should work through themIf you like NIMH I think you'd like the madness that is Animals of Farthing Wood (only the first season is necessary, anything after that is optional), it's all on youtube if you ever have a couple evenings to kill
Timmy to the Rescue is really really really really bad
>>155346254i've heard of farthing wood but never seen it, maybe i will. >>155346447what's wrong? you don't like the evil eric idle mouse?
>>155346602All you need to know about Farthing Wood before going in is there's a six and a half minute long onscreen character death compilation on youtube. :) I think I'd be more forgiving to Timmy if it wasn't a sequel to such a good movie but bruh this animation moves at 2 fps
Hey guys, I've been speculating that Lute is a demonic angel like Jessica said because she committed an act of sin by eating the fruit. We see that she has demonic features, the black halo, the wings, slit eyes come of the teeth... what if she got corrupted by Evil/Roo, And that's sort of what left her soul so stagnant, that even in Heaven, those demonic features still bleed through? It could also lead credence to the pilot era info where Viv said The Exorcist were controlled by forces beyond Heaven and Hell?
>>155343161Why? The general consensus among NIMH fans is to ignore the sequel's existence.
Hazbin Hotel NIMH AU when?
Secret of NIMH 2 was terrible. I'll stop off topic-ing now but my god, awful
>>155347050you cannot truly appreciate the heights unless you understand the lows. sidenote watch 'a troll in central park'.>>155347419little creatures...
>>155346933I believe that Charlie and Lute are halves of a whole.Yin = LuteYang = CharlieYin-Yang = Eve
>>155347955What I don't understand here is why whatever split up Eve would give part of her to Lucifer and Lilith to raise?
>>155346933>>155347955>>155348007This theory is honestly horrible.
>>155348119yeah, but I was thinking about souls being able to have a factory reset or be able to split in halves.I see Sera capable of that, if she wanted...she could reset Adam or anyone really, all to make em fit better upstairs.also I like that other theory about Adam having a different personality depending his state.
>>155348343Bruh what?
>>155348470you think that tampering with souls isn't possible?you think that souls cannot change after they change realms?Sir Pentious changed after arriving at Heaven, did he not? the change was fundamental, which is how these theories were made.if Adam returns as a Fallen Angel, his personality will change and behave differently from how we seen in Season 1, the Adam from Eden behaved differently from how Adam on Earth behaved, same with Winner Adam.
The more I've thought about it, there's a chance Lute!Eve really *wasn't* happy in Eden. Not necessarily with Adam, but with the situation.Lute is described as a creature of heaven who was very much conditioned to respect the hierarchy of heaven, right? That she really wanted to do a good job. Well, that could very much apply to her early years when she was Eve. After the Lilith disaster, Heaven really must have knuckled down, "Okay, we gotta try this again and get it right this time." So when Eve was created, they really drummed it into her to be obedient and do what was expected of her. They overreacted and overcorrected.Hence why Vosk cites the song "Lucky". That yeah, on the outside, Eve was the luckiest woman who had it all, but on the inside she was feeling quite unhappy and lonely from all the pressure.Hence why Lucifer found Eve looking sad under the tree. She was probably in the right state of mind where she could be prompted to do something rebellious. Alternatively, Lucifer might have convinced her this would help her do a better job (and from his perspective, her gaining the apple of knowledge would do that, so it's a win-win for everybody).What do you guys think?
>>155348343Would you stop presenting your stupid Kingdom Hearts fragment theory with Lute being Eve?
>>155349741Obviously. That's what Looty's been saying.
I think if there is an Eden focus in S3 they'll focus on Lilith and Lucifer falling in love and will withhold Eve until the very end. She's season finale material.
>>155350586I'm pretty sure the Eve reveal for her will be the cliffhanger for season 3. The same way they revealed Lilith at the very end of season 1, they're going to do the same thing with revealing Lute as Eve. It would be set up for season 4 which is the gold colored season,
>>155349949what? that shit wouldn't work.I meant it literally, some shady deal went on to divide Eve into 2 new beings.Lute ain't Eve but rather came from Eve and "made in Heaven" and the Ls got the other part which they built to make Charlie.got it, besides the theory is outlandish even for me by now.all I have is Lute and Charlie have a connection to Eve in a literal sense.
>>155350738it would be nice if gold from spandau ballet would be used to hype Lute up.
>>155350586all I hope is that both Lilith and Adam are shown to be jerks if thats true.
>>155333430CRAWLING IN MY SKIN>>155333775THESE WOUNDSTHEY WILL NOT HEAL
>>155350806>divide Eve into 2 new beings.The fuck? No.
>>155350859Adam isn't even a jerk in the storybook.
>>155351324alright, other theory.anyone who had eaten from Adam's corpse is gonna hallucinate the same way Lute did, since he is an Archangel then he can regenerate if he has a space to spawn into aka the place where soul deals take place.making Adam live in the subsconcious of Hell and Sinners...just imagine a miniature Adam giving Alastor a pep talk or influence him to curse more.
>>155351788I mean in the sense that both aren't better from each other, they think they are but they ain't.I kinda see Lilith not better than Adam, not in voice but in actions, both have the same hubris yet express it differently.
>>155351788We literally don't know anything. To me, he doesn't look like a jerk but we don't know. Others interpret it as him indeed being a jerk. So I could go either way.
>>155351892>Eve cut her hair after eating the fruitHmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
>>155351843Sir, this is a Wendy's, we're talking about plausible theories for season 3. Not fanfiction.
>>155350586Season finale material for sure.They could still introduce the mystery of Eve throughout Season 3, namely what became of her, building it up until she’s revealed to be Eve in the finale.I’d love for her to be the surprise season finale where she mogs and curbstombs the good guys. It’d be a jaw dropping surprise for the general audience who think it’s probably gonna be Val.
>>155352127Just let him say his harmless thing.
>>155352127when you think of soul fragments and Adam's halo making Lute hallucinate then it should be possible in my opinion.besides the odds of this being canon is literally near zero.
>>155352100how curious that many Eve fanarts resemble Lute...
>>155352137One of my favourite scene ideas was a mirror to Overture, where the lights go on and Charlie is now confronted by Lute and Abel, the former now the one sitting down and eating from a plate of ribs.
>>155341500Disgusting
what are your spectations of Lilith btw?
>>155354732I'm not saying this because I don't care for her, but genuinely, I think she will be a disappointment no matter how evil or how good or how in between she is. The mystery has been prolonged for so long that I can't really see anything satisfying about it, meaning for the overall plot? Maybe I'm being too harsh though and assuming way too much. People schizo theorizing every possible angle still doesn't mean that's how the show is going to play out. And even if they end up doing something similar to whatever theories have been brought up, the execution could be way way different. I think she'll be meh.
>>155354784If Lilith was a character that didn't have so much build up prior to the series, versus just introducing her as a show only character, I don't think there would be much expectations come up, but because there has been so much about her, everyone is married to their interpretation that no matter how well it's executed, a good chunk is going to be loud and unsatisfied. No matter if she's good, come on, no matter if she's an evil, no matter if she's actually a well-rounded character.
>>155354806this had been an issue inside many fandoms for a while, they just don't let the story naturally unfold before them and try to get ahead of the curve or something
>>155355322It's very presumptuous of me to say because we are obviously not the writers of the show, and we won't ever guess how they're going to execute it until it happens. But.. I feel like there has been so many theories about her that we've covered all the possibilities. Again, I'm probably presuming too much, but I feel like I've heard almost every variation of Lilith as a character: she's evil, she hates Charlie, she's good. She's good. She loves Lucifer and Charlie and means to do good things but they come across in an evil way, she's morally gray, she's actually not that smarter than Lucifer is, etc. Etc etc. And I feel like.. Like we've covered all our bases that nothing would surprise me at this point. Even if it's well written, some of the fandom has had to have accurately guessed what's going to happen, and it's just kind of a bummer because it won't really live up anyway. I don't know. I'm rambling.
>>155355403the only way the show could surprise us is that the Story of Hell is bullshit and that Lilith wasn't who she was in the story, essentially all our theories assume that what we were shown is a fact and that the Story of Hell at least hold the perspective of Lilith or Lucifer + what we know about the Bible to create a series of events that may as well be fake in canon.we always assume that Lilith was the First Woman, but what if she wasn't but rather a prototype or just someone else that was present in Eden but not who she said she was.I believe that would be a twist that could either make or break her character, pull a Rose Quartz.
>>155355629Yeah, my personal schizo theory that I presented here before is that essentially Lilith never really existed? Like it's Roo's OC/self insert basically. Made up an entire body, changed her appearance or would have you to enter the garden, to get Eve to bite the apple. It wouldn't have been hard to influence the youngest of the Seraph. And then that would make her Charlie's bio mom... I don't know Viv well enough to say she would, but I could absolutely see her portraying Roo in a more positive light, where while yes, she's the embodiment of evil, she *doesn't* want to be that and nobody ever gave her the chance to be anything else. Enter Charlie, and she shows that everyone, yes even they embodiment of evil, can choose to be good. Or I don't know, something to that effect. I know a lot of people would not like that. I wouldn't mind it.
>>155355782thats one way they could go for but it'll be too convoluted to execute for Viv properly.but one thing that could save it is if during season 3, Charlie's friend figure out something doesn't fit here with Lilith and that for the longest time everyone assumed that Lilith IS the First Woman, yet had anyone else acknowledged that fact in the show?.one way they could go with this is Husk straight up in the most casual yet direct manner ask: "you ain't the First Woman, who are you really?".Alastor will totally backup Husk with that too as we had seen him get closer to Lucifer, so even if Lucifer lies about it, Alastor will know how to disern the lies and get the sliver of truth, enough to back Lilith into a corner.
>>155355972>that picGod said that's what you get for eating the fruit, Eve.
>>155356172>forgot to label the filenameIt's Genesis 3:16 (KJV)
>>155355972>but it'll be too convoluted to execute for Viv properlyYou really think so?
>>155352551She's what a lot of people want out of Eve, they just don't know it yet.
>>155357788She's almost literally word for word doing exactly what Eve in the leaks did, and exactly what people describe Eve as anyway. People are fucking weird.
>>155357788>>155357850I don't understand how they don't notice that. It's pretty obvious.
I exclusively read Lute centric fanfiction
>>155358015Good stuff I hope? She does get some slop.
>>155358015Like the Adam rat penis fanfic?
If Lute turns out to be Eve then all that porn with Abel will become funnier in hindsight.
>>155358502People are going to leave the fandom over this. It'll be pretty spectacular.
>>155358502Honestly it's gonna be so funny. Thing is porn will still be made of the two of them but at least post reveal it will be more accurate to their dynamic. Fully expecting some weird incest mommy stuff with Abel nursing and shit.
>>155358502I get not thinking she's Eve, but the ship is hot garbage, and those shippers have a weird superiority complex about it. They know it's shit.
>>155358502People that already draw her in a toxic dynamic with Adam will lap it up.
>>155358699They have a rabid hatred for Guitarspear. Moreso than even the lesbian Lute larpers.
>>155358699Yeah I interacted with some. They're super delusional. It's gonna be so funny watching them lose their shit when they find out they supported a mother-son incest ship. Funny enough after these guys fuck off and the incest fans move in Holyblades is gonna have the most chill community.
>>155358711Eh the incest might turn these types off.
A lot of Adam fans jumped to Abel after season 2 but you can't beat the OG. Abel has a different appeal and he's not for me
Finished the Google doc you guys. I'm just having friends looking over it to make sure no links are broken and make sure it's easy to navigate,
>>155359106Very good.
Amir said that the next season is underwhelming. Bro, what?
>>155359294You're really going to trust Amir? Also, that just sounds like he's making a joke, purposefully under selling it. Of course he doesn't think it's underwhelming. Come on now.
>>155359294>>155359337Didn't Valentino's VA say that and not Amir?
>>155359430https://youtu.be/Ywjg9hTk-90?t=2292The embed doesn't work so copy and paste it or highlight it then click open link in new tab.
>>155359483Overdue? Hmmmmmm.
>>155359498Fun Fact: Season 3 was originally Season 2.I hope the Lilith mystery is actually worth wasting a whole season over.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnAPkhOyt_Q&t=1899s
>>155359559Yup already knew that.
>>155357555yup, there is such a thing as good idea with bad execution, same with bad idea with good execution.
>>155358758it may get a pass, it ain't the 2000s no more.
>>155357971correct
>>155357971
>>155359757I'm not sure dude. They seem even more pissy nowadays when it comes to this stuff.
>>155359773those are the ones that are still in the closet, they like it but won't admit it.at least bwenfags and loudfags wouldn't lie to you about it, besides Lute would be freaky enough to test it out and see if he can make Abel more manly.
Why do these threads have almost no creativity, compared to the Helluva Boss ones?
>>155359788>loudfagsYuck
>>155360131If by creativity you mean cookie cutter stories about furry characters dating self insert Anonymous Human Men then no we don't really have those
>>155360131Actually, we have plenty of greentexts. The difference is we have no OCs because we actually like our show and are happy working with what we have. You're equating OCs with creativity.
>>155360131I've seen your threads. You are severely delusional if you come here to complain about "lack of creativity".
>>155360272Dude wouldn't Hazbin Hotel be better if Charlie turned to the camera and said "I FUCK HUMAN MEN" and held hands with Anonymous? Hehe... get on it drawfags. Make her wear a bikini and hold a cheeseburger too.
And that Human Man's name? Verbalase
If Adam used 4chan he would enter random threads to say 'she looks like she fucks human men'
>>155360409If Lute used 4chan she would enter random Hazbin related threads to post pics of Adam with the caption "he looks like he fucks Eden women"
>>155360355Correct
>>155360458Lute strikes me as someone who goes through phones fast because she's always throwing them and breaking them. Her phone has texting, a Bible app and maybe a maps app. Adam sets them up for her.She has a Windows 7 PC with one game (CS:GO) and she can't buy more because she hasn't figured out the payment cards. I don't think she uses 4chan.
>>155360481Using 4chan on a phone is super comfy.
>>155360331We rarely get greentexts but at least when we do it's something interesting.
>>155360488Lute uses the default Chrome browser on her phone so she gets ads (which made her throw the phone at the wall so no more 4chan)
>>155332182This show is highly satanic because it has DEMONS and HOMERSEXUALS
In her Season 3 arc Lute will get really into CS skin gambling
>>155360522She gambles so hard and ends up losing so much money she has to sell her Lute skin on the steam market and is forced to equip her default Eve skin.
>>155360550Schizo Adam hangs over her shoulder goading her into increasingly shady and more vibecoded online casinos that made it through Heaven's firewall from Voxnet. She will kill Sir Pentious when Sera sends him as part of the intervention team thus kickstarting her downfall
>14 new posts here. >2 over there.Proof.
>>155360823I don't bother anymore checking what's going on in there. It's just constant lusting over furry women. Fuck even the trash thread had more variety sometimes.
>>155359559That's old news dude. Where have you been.
Anything you guys wanna discuss?
>>155362530Everyone is waiting with bated breath for Looty's document.
>>155362585She's gonna drop it today?
>>155362530Yeah. Why was The Secret of NIMH 2 so ass?
>>155362877I'm sorry I didn't watch it.
>>155362530When is Abel going to kill demons like his dad?
>>155362974>Giving Abel the black arms I know what he's trying to imply. The mark of a dumbass since that's obviously not the case.
What do you think Cain looks like?
>>155363284Skinny edgy Adam.
>>155362974when they earn his ire and worst of all, Charlie wouldn't have any excuses by then.its one thing to earn Adam's or Lute's ire and get them to kill you, another thing entirely is having Abel try to kill you, to make Abel react like that some poor fools had to do something bad enough for that for it'll be completely justified.also I kinda see Abel going the Copy X route and be his own type of unhinged.
>>155336596> 1.) If Eve is just universally rejected and despised by Heaven, Hell and Earth (despite the fact that modern humanity sees her more as a victim), even if she went straight up to Heaven upon her death... then, really, what is the point of redemption in this show *about* redemption? How do you then resolve her arc in a way where she's in a better place than when she started that doesn't feel phoney or forced? (i.e. everyone is heaven now magically liking her) Because we all know Lute is going to be redeemed by the show's end - it's a given - but if the show goes out of its way to say that redemption wouldn't tangibly mean anything for her, what the hell else is she meant to do? Why *shouldn't* Eve just kill everyone then? A fascinating question, but the show would still need to try and answer it, and I don't see how they could.> I mean, guys, this show's second season finale ended with the literal power of friendship saving the day! .. 'kay? I just don't see them making Eve's situation so unfixably, relentlessly bleak that redemption doesn't mean anything.Sorry for being late to the party here. I've followed this debate and mulled this over since I read it. Tbh, I'm stumped for a counter point.There are complicated themes, and then there's writing yourself into a corner, and that's what they'd be doing if they did that with Eve/Lute. There's nothing Charlie or Emily or Vagi could then say or offer her that she couldn't easily shoot down with, " Why? What do I have to gain?! If mankind rejected me wholesale before, why would they accept me now?!"What we'd be left with is less a story about how redemption is possible and how anyone can be better and more, 'Hey, let's be nice to this lady now before she tries to kill us all again.'
>>155362585>>155362616Ideally I would want to drop it today, but some friends are going over it to make sure it's breathable, that everything is easy to navigate, and click through. It's kind of a long document, so I don't know if they'll finish by today. I don't want to wait any more than a week though.
>>155363691Redemption isn't possible for everyone. And it wouldn't be hypocritical for the show to recognize that. That's clearly what they're doing with her. It's up to her if she wants to take up on redemption and change herself. In real life, sometimes life is a bitch to the people that least deserve it. She's already in a corner currently.
It makes zero sense that Eve went to hell first before being ascended into Heaven solely for the Exterminations. They wouldn't have been shocked at SP's redemption because she already went through it.
>>155363787or she didn't.it could go either way.
>>155363691I think that Charlie is right that redemption is possible for everybody...if they choose to.the door is open so all they have to do is be better, right? then why do so many still choose not to? you and I know why is that but does Charlie?.
>>155363847Ultimately doesn't matter because it doesn't make Heaven look any less bad. They psychologically conditioned her and really beat in the whole hierarchy of Heaven, it's authority, etc. This has been confirmed by Viv and Sam. I don't know why some people want to make it seem like Heaven aren't the bad guys.
>>155363730If she is Eve I think there's no way they use the 'redemption is possible for everyone' storyline on her specifically. It's antithetical to everything Viv wanted to do with Eve.
>>155364026>'redemption is possible for everyone'I meant 'redemption isn't possible for everyone'. D'oh
>>155363787The idea of her going to Hell first wasn’t that she was redeemed, but that she was given the cheat code to be in Heaven by Sera. That’s why she’d be so outraged, “I hate to slip my way here through the back door!”>>155363730I… agree with you, but that wasn’t the point I was making. The issue isn’t that redemption isn’t possible for everyone and that people have to want it and make an effort, but more if the show goes down the route of making it abundantly clear there’s nothing for to be gained from redemption. Basically, I’m arguing why the proposed backstory of everyone in Heaven and Hell uniformly rejecting her would work against the show than for it.
>>155363932there is no good side desujust which side suck less
>>155364064cute parallel there
>>155364228Dude Abel has Lute's bangs. I'm so sure of it.
>>155364075>Cheat codeThat's what I've been saying. After she died on Earth, she went to heaven via cheat code because otherwise she should be down to hell. Of course she's going to think she's superior. It makes no sense if she were to go to hell first.
>>155364075>proposed backstory of everyone in Heaven and Hell uniformly rejecting her would work against the show than for it.It wouldn't. It makes sense.
>>155364154It sure ain't Heaven. They suck the most.
>>155364075Basically, it’d be the story making Lute!Eve’s mind up for her than herself.This is why I think it needs to be kept as more an internal conflict than an external one. That she thinks her sin is too insurmountable and *fears* that no one would accept her as excuses/justifications she tells herself to keep doing what she’s doing.Maybe Pentious being welcomed and accepted by Heaven then serves as a foreshadowing for her, or a way of God trying to tell her, “This is what you can have if you open your heart and try to change!”
>>155363697No rush. Sorry if it seems like we're rushing you, it's just genuinely exciting haha. I will definitely be poring all over it. Of course on /co/ you're preaching to the choir, very curious to see if it helps get the theory further traction over on Twitter.
>>155364244yo...I had seen many Adam self-insert or larping fics but I have yet to see an Abel one, specifically one on the beginning in primal Earth.
>>155364728> if it helps get the theory further traction over on Twitter.Honestly I'm kinda expecting that it won't do much. Not because the document isn't good or well researched (it probably is) but because the fandom is so incredibly retarded and fixated on their old ideas.
>>155364836Abel fans don't seem to be that interested in any plotlines involving him so long as he can be Emily or femanon's cutesy boyfriend.
>>155364865I suspect this too. For me personally the document speaks for itself, but I'm not expecting for people to really connect the dots. I mean, I guess I could make a document dedicated solely for this theory explaining things, but even that, I feel, would be a waste of time. Time. I can tell you, that reading over everything, it's obvious that they're hiding something with her. They're purposefully keeping her backstory a mystery and she's in it for the long haul. She's absolutely going to be a big bad, I feel like.
Why does everyone go nuts over Lute and Adam?
>>155364884wow, thats...boring.if I was Abel, I'll try to keep the family together or straight up leave after the blessing to save Cain from himself.build Atlantis and pretty much make a idyllic kingdom or at much as it can be.there is so much you can do by being Abel and less limited due to being a primordial Human in pre-flood era, modern knowledge and foresight would grant me a serious advantage.I could make the Abelites a thing and if someone is wise about it, reach the peak of Humanity before tragically falling apart in the Flood.apiculture and animal husbandry would come easy, metallurgy too, boil water and use copper as disinfectant, soap, I could pull a fucking Senku here.
>>155364956Because they are presented as a designated pair both in and outside the show. Because the crew loves them. Viv likes them. They're really they're the only straight pair and that's like a breath of fresh air in a show like this.
>>155364956Its a human thing to pair people up when they vibe so much
>>155364956A bunch of reasons.>It's heterosexual. Even the staunchest allies who are the most supportive of LGBT rights IRL are ultimately not that invested in fictional LGBT relationships>It's a will-they-won't-they relationship with a lot of teasing and a real chance at becoming canon>They sound great together>You want attractive humans? You have that. You prefer freaky monster mask beings? You have that too. >Tons of theorising.>Adam is from the Bible (Lute might be too) so there's even more layers of lore to examine>It's NOT an enemies to lovers relationship, it's built on affection. Sorry to those who like that kind of thing but it's kind of overplayed
>>155365024This gives me an idea.>Whatever remained of Eves actual goodness after the Root took hold was pulled out, and given form. This, Lute was born.>She doesn't remember anything, but has a strange pull to Adam she cannot explain.>It's because in her heart, she always loved him, her long lost husband.
>>155365098>It's NOT an enemies to lovers relationship, it's built on affection. Sorry to those who like that kind of thing but it's kind of overplayedI would also add badly done on top of overplayed. A lot of them feel forced AF or just lack the buildup and proper dynamic.
>>155364956they cute
>>155364956>>155365003>>155365098To add on to the straight comments you really only get this kind of equal interest from both guys and girls with straight pairings. That's why it feels pretty co-ed in here.
>>155364956It's a breath of fresh air
>>155365101No.
>>155365101>Adam thought Eve left him forever and probably for Lucifer.>She never left his side and never will.
>>155365282>In a better written universe, as he lay dying, he would've had an epiphany.>He would've reached out and caressed her cheek, and spoken in a soft voice.>"You've been at my side, all along.">And then died with a smile.
>>155365134Yeah. It can be fun to see two huge egos clash but sometimes it's more fun to see two huge egos hype and support each other to be louder and flashier and even more annoying. They are That Couple.
>>155364956the smile. that damned smile...i always love when a villain and their sidekick actually like each other, and i also liked how mutual their hype is - lute for adam in 'hell is forever', while adam is lute's supporting harmony for 'you didn't know'. their designs contrast nicely and their voices sound lovely together. finally, this show is the 'these monsters are still people actually' show and these two happen to be the most monstrous.
Adam only liked Eve because she was submissive tho
>>155365363Not necessarily submissive, more not fucking clashing with him all the time. There's a difference.
>>155365394Submissive. Does whatever it is that he says or wants without a voice of her own. That's kind of Eve's whole thing in the Bible. To just be his complement, his helper, his wife. That's all. She is. Very sad.
>>155365404Why, why does that bear sadness? She's happy. He's happy.
>>155365404He seems to let his latest helper, who may or may not be Eve, keep him in line when she thinks he's being stupid. Remember he has no real reason to allow her to grab his collar and pull him around other than he just tolerates it because he likes her. He outranks her and could punish her for it.
>>155365418Yikes.
>>155365433... So she should be grateful that he's not punishing her? Oof
>>155365478
>>155365326>"My true soulmate">"My guiding wife">Gets up from the ground and grabs Lute by the legs >Covers half of his face with her ass
>>155365404>>155365463What's that smell?
>>155365615He's so based
Fools. Adam is Lilith, actually.
>>155365676Wtf am I looking at?
>>155365690I was just making a joke because they look the same. I guess how they both started off and how they ended up? So according to this artist, I guess they both started off as blonde twinks?
>>155365698Honestly disregarding the eye colour the first iterations make me think of Jamie and Cersei Lannister.
Would Adam respect the Doom Slayer?
>>155366473I doubt his ego leaves much room for other cool men. Maybe some boomer rockstars.
https://x.com/Lute__CEO/status/2097058277192528194?s=20There we go. Have fun parsing through that mess.TL;DR: If I’m reading all this correctly, Lute is a long-game, slow-burn character whose story is intentionally incomplete. She’s vicious and bloodthirsty, but also deeply repressed, psychologically conditioned by Heaven’s hierarchy, and heavily defined by dogma, duty and Adam. Now Adam is gone and her black-and-white worldview is increasingly being challenged. Most importantly, there’s clearly still something significant about her history or motivations being withheld; Jessica has teased this repeatedly, while Viv has confirmed Lute’s real culmination comes later. Basically: Lute is a ticking time bomb because the beliefs her entire identity depends on are falling apart, and we still don't know what originally made her cling to them so fiercely.
>>155366694Finally: The Bible 2: Electric Boogaloo
>>155366694It's wild 2 me that so many people want Eve to be vengeful, grieving Adam, in love with him (or at the very least, was), and wronged by Heaven, but when you point out that Lute is already being written with all of those exact elements, suddenly it can’t be her?
>>155365639butthurt anon, butthurt.
>>155366694Oh yes.
>>155366694Let me know what you guys think!
What if Abel was a lady? Abelle.
>>155366694I didn't know that Jessica singled out "I'm here to finish what I started" as meaningful to Lute. I thought that was just thread speculation. HMMMMMMM
>>155367235That's it. Open your third eye, my child. See why I became a Lute/Eve schizo.
I like the angel cast more than the demon cast
>>155367315A lot of people do.
>>155367016Probably
>>155366694Re: the Bar Book: I have a copy of it and Viv is credited as writing a foreword. How old is Viv's post saying she wasn't involved in it? Either:>the Insta post dates before being contacted for the foreword; or>She forgot she contributed a foreword; or>the foreword is ghostwritten. The book cover in her insta story is a WIP cover without reference to her foreword but the final version promotes her foreword credit on the cover. Either way I think it's clear she wasn't involved with the body of the book.
>>155367352https://www.reddit.com/r/HazbinHotel/comments/1lq4tbv/hazbin_hotel_drink_and_snack_book_is_not_official/
>>155367394Lol it looks like she made the post and then they invited her to write a foreword after. That's pretty funny
Jessica sure does use demon/demonic to refer to Lute a whole bunch
>>155367495To me it seems like Heaven made their own demons to fight fire against fire, but reluctantly I will say that maybe MM and other person are onto something with the whole "Eve going down to Hell first" thing
>>155366473>>155366632Adam was on his rock/metal phase, no different when Sera had a disco phase and Emily a fresh phase.shit Charlie had an edgy goth phase.now on Doomguy...Adam would be jelly until he sees the Doomguy make Lucifer and Lilith his bitch and then fuck their daughter in front of them on a cuck chair.suddenly Doomguy would be Adam's favorite person.
Waiting for Jessica to refer to Lute's insectoid antenna
Again, I’m sorry I didn’t record the 9/3 Streamily. Somehow, nobody in the community recorded it, and we’re all kicking ourselves for making the same assumption: the last two were preserved, so surely someone would get this one. Nope! I would’ve loved having Jessica’s exact phrasings to pick apart, but my memory is garbage, so I’m limited to the notes I wrote down in real time.
>>155367549she ain't namekian anon but she is certainly horny.
>>155364372But the question remains: how do you then resolve her arc in a way that makes sense and feels satisfying? Especially with the show's themes?Guys, here's the thing: Eve/Lute is getting redeemed. It's gonna happen. One of the whole points of her character arc is that she's wrong; redemption is possible. She's the toughest nut Charlie has to crack, but crack that nut will (giggidy).>>155364026>>155364044EXACTLY! Nah, don't worry, I know what you meant.And true, not everyone will be capable of redemption. You've gotta want it and try to be better. But the problem with this proposed backstory is that it'd basically remove any choice/agency from Eve/Lute's hands by spelling it out in big capital letters that all of mankind uniformly rejects her and always will. What incentive would Eve/Lute have to *want* to be redeemed in that case? Redemption would basically become meaningless, and c'mon... the writers don't always get it right, but no way are they gonna go "whoop, turns out Lute's right, and Charlie's wrong," when the whole point is Lute is wrong.MM had a good idea that it should be more about the *fear* of rejection, because she's long convinced herself her sins are too great.> Eve: "So what? You're telling me if I did, everyone in Heaven will accept me? *Everyone?"*> Pentious: "They accepted me, didn't they? Some probably won't... but hey, they can fuck themselves. You'll already have friends here." (gestures to Abel, Emily and Peter)
>>155367612what will make her change is sering Abel end the same way Adam did, but instead of letting him die a second time she sacrifices herself and end up in Heaven.in fact, both Adam and Eve dying to protect their kids out of love would earn that redemption, they wouldn't want it yet still choose to do better.
>To get to bring something to life that has such a demonic, angelic, antagonistic… you know, Exorcistic thing happening,Demonic angels...
>>155367698>demonic angelswhat an oxymoron, wonder how viv will pull it off.
I didn't put it in the archive since she's not explicitly talking about Lute or Eve (though, maybe I should put this + the time she said she likes for the audience to get to know the characters before they do their big thing?) where Viv says she likes girlfailures. Call me crazy, I don't think Lilith is really her golden goose or fave, it may just be Lute/Eve: https://youtu.be/MlYBCq7iet0?t=148Especially since even in the pre-pilot era, she never spoke about Lilith much,
It must be a relief for Jessica knowing that Lute originated with her and she didn't replace a pilot actress, to be honest.
>>155367790A relief how?
>>155367803I'm seeing a lot of yap about how fun it was to join a project that already had a huge fanbase. It'd come off as kind of tone deaf if she was playing one of the pilot characters.
>>155366694Jesus fucking Christ. Jessica has been spilling the beans for a MINUTE hasn't she
>Moistness, there’s just a lot of moistness and we’re all experiencing it in real time together. What did she mean by this?
>Erika and Jessica think Lute is a Taurus
>>155367972I legit have no idea. I ran it through three transcript generators, listened to it with my good headphones, volume up to the max, and that's what I heard: moistness. Idk if I'm just deaf or stupid, or it could be an inside joke.
>>155367995She's a Taurus? And works with Adam. ADAM TAURUS (rwby reference somehow)!
>>155368090Incidentally it's an earth sign ruled by Venus, very feminine and fertile (and stubborn), probably what I'd pick for a stereotypical Eve
>>155368090>>155368123huh...then I totally see Lilith as a Virgo.
>>155367612> > Pentious: "They accepted me, didn't they? Some probably won't... but hey, they can fuck themselves. You'll already have friends here." (gestures to Abel, Emily and Peter)Fuckin’ power of friendship, baby
It's such an interesting pick but I totally see it
Lute!Eve’s go to method of discipline with Abel and the rest of her children post-reveal.> “GIVE ME YOUR PHONE!”
>>155368123>>155368210Oh yeah, Eve is sprouting horns post reveal!
So one thing I didn't realise is when Viv is talking about Adam, Abel and Lute's voices together it sounds like she's talking about Abel's family first (as opposed to Adam's family) and then she mentions Lute as part of that. Huh. I had assumed the quote was about Adam's family because I was getting it second hand. But mentioning Lute in the context of ABEL'S family, that's really interesting.
>>155368641You're overthinking.
>>155368702I've been reading the document for about two and a half hours straight.
>>155368744You're welcome! I wished it took me only two hours to put together...
Schizo town.
>>155368783We have fun here
>>155368771It's stellar work. I bet it took a crapton of time to make. Thanks for sharing with the community.
>>155367698>>155367753Yep, cuz she was a demon who was artificially transformed into an angel.
>>155368783Always hazbin
>>155366694Wow, Looty, I’m pouring over this, and I’ve gotta give you credit. This is pretty rock solid. To quote John Bennett from Ted, ah got no notes.I think people are gonna be coming back to this after season 3. Keep hold of it.
>>155368961CARLOS
>>155368955the implications of that are disturbing...how the fuck they'll even go about it? what type of deal would pull it off?...and suddenly the theory about her being ostracized in Heaven by everybody makes sense, she got privilege and made the order be pointless.
What the fuck you mean Jessica wants Lute to have a crossover adventure in the Sonic universe where she meets Tails and hates him but maybe slowly grows to hate him less and NOBODY has drawn this
>>155366694wat?
>>155369231que?
>>155369221oh hell naw
>>155369179Well it goes with the idea that Eve went to Hell when she died. Seven years ago during Lilith’s uprising, she got Sera, Lilith and possibly Rosie to the table. She most likely masterminded the Exterminations to cull Hell’s population, and Sera reluctantly agreed, effectively giving her the backstage pass into heaven and making her an artificial angel, taking in the name ‘Lute’.Therefore, she is a demonic angel of sorts. What do you think?
>>155369304thats very plausible, but I doubt it is enough time...Charlie's birth should be the date this deal happens since it gives Heaven and Hell a lowkey link to talk.Eve can't go to Heaven as Eve so she took the name Lute and immediatly sought Adam...I can't imagine how deeply it affected her seeing how her abscense made Adam feel and probably Adam accepted he lost Eve for good to Lucifer and Lilith.that type of guilt of messing everything up and tolerating everything Adam does a penance for her sins...it is doable.
>>155369221An adventure with Tails could fix her.
>>155369568The fact that Jessica wants Lute to go on an adventure with Tails and says she hates cheery types... very much like Abel, but also insinuating it may do her good.
>>155369270Adam should have throttled that pipsqueak.
Wait. So if she's Eve, then what's her "sympathetic reason" for hating sinners? That she's projecting onto her relative / descendants and kills them? Seems eh.
>>155369632How would Adam, practically an infant in both mentality and age, be able to beat an old ass angel? Please. Lucifer may have been the baby of the Elders based on his size, but he was still there before creation. Adam is like, what, 3 in Eden? lol He can't do shit.
>Tails takes Lute to the Chao Garden>Interacting with her makes her chao become a dark chao even though she dotes on it>Lute panics and considers killing it to put it out of its perceived misery then killing herself for the corruption that's clearly set into her >Tails bitchslaps her then gives an incredible pep talk that brings her back from the brink>Lute learns to value all chao life including the dark chao she raised >Believe In Myself plays in the background
>>155342399If Sera does reach out to Lute!Eve in S3, with a tentative peace now established and redemption proven possible, she may try to persuade her that it's a feasible path for her, too.Lute can only ask one question:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5MmJKGXbKw
>>155369606It would do her a lot of good. Got me thinking how Tails would start getting through to her. Maybe she fucks up her prosthetic and he fixes it up and upgrades it. Maybe he starts reminding her of her son.
>>155369698if Adam can name stuff...he can remove the names.Lucifer used to have a name but it was [Deleted] and no one in existence except God remembers that name, there is nothing more cruel than the mind of a child.
>>155370148> (Sera looks upon Lute with sympathy and regret. She reaches down her card and places it on her cheek soothingly)> “Evie…”> Lute reacts as if she’s been struck. She’s fighting the tears back with all the bile she can summon.> “Don’t. Call me that!!”
>>155369636not quite, its guilt.there won't be Sinners if it wasn't for her, Abel wouldn't have died, the world wouldn't have become so fucking horrible that they had to flood it, innocent lives wouldn't have suffered under the tyranny of evil people, etc...
>>155370542Lute/Eve = Anakin/VaderSera = Obi-Wan
>>155370457> if Adam can name stuff...he can remove the names.Heh.When Zombie Adam and Lute!Eve’s hellborn children are first born…> Adam: “I'm calling him Abel. Always wanted a boy named Abel.”> Abel: “Dad… Abel is my name.”> Adam: “Not anymore it ain’t. l'm taking it back. He's Abel.”> Abel: “Y-You can't take away a grown man's name!”> Adam: “Fine, whatever. l'll call him G.A. Good Abel.”
>>155370750in hindsight, thats why Heaven tolerated Adam's shenanigans...can't have the guy who can remove names as well as he can give em get pissed off at you.
At Dragon Con vivzie was asked if there was one character who could never be redeemed in her shows and she said it was the hellaVerse's evil god, which was RooI could be wrong but isn't this the first time Vivzie has ever explicitly said Roo was the root of evil (at a con of all places)
>>155371228I FUCKING KNEW IT
>>155371228link to video ??
>>155371265https://www.youtube.com/watch/hYzr9n76VsI
>>155371326Do you have the full panel?
>>155337164>they had to shut down the factoryI don't know why that particular part is what gets me out of the whole thing.
>>155371377It was a pretty recent panel (op on tiktok uploaded it 6 hours ago) so it'll likely be up in a few days tops
>>155371228Will make people finally shut the fuck up about Roo/Evil being Eve or whatever the fuck
Lute needs to get a fight scene against someone other than Vagina next season. Right now it kinda feels like other than the commander (Adam and now Abel) the exterminators are kinda mid-tier outside of their invulnerability and would've all been killed by Overlords disarming them and skewering them with their own weapons eventually.
Evil / Roo confirmed by Viv, guys: tiktok.com/t/ZP8ccCNv7Roo / Eve is officially off the table.
>>155373270what she needs is fight unfairly, Lute should modernize and begin to use guns.maybe investigate a way to use nukes, just fill em up with angelic steel dust and send them down through a portal.
>>155373441Fucking finally.
>>155373441>>155374205It's all coming together. Another W for the schizophrenics.
>>155374474Are we really the schizos when we’re just pointing at what the show has literally been showing us this entire time? Everyone else is the schizo. Roo/Evil being Eve? Seriously? The opening of the first episode already contradicted that shit.
https://x.com/Cqraaa/status/2097154845534749181Flowertunes/evilguitar cope has already begun.
>>155374704Yep, I knew this was going to happen. But it's begun. Excellent.
>>155374704>Also also keep in mind viv could potentially be throwing out a red herring, we dont know where eve is. She could be rosie, she could be impersonating lilith, or be rooOr she could be..... hm.
>>155374704>>155374721>>155374748Are they not aware of the possibility of Lute being Eve?
>>155374748Nope! Definitely not that! That's the stupidest, least probable option! I don't care if the voice actress confirmed she's Eve! It's Rosie, Roo or Lilith! That's it!
>>155374760Guys. The voice actress literally spoiled Lute is Eve.Nobody.Gives.A.Shit.Rosie, Roo, or Lilith: these are the only options for Eve
>>155374760This artist dislikes Lute so it's more likely they don't want to think about it. Their entire fandom person is the big Flowertunes guy and they've done doodles of Lute being cucked by Roo!Eve.
>>155374788>done doodles of Lute being cucked by Roo!Eve.Bruh what? Are you for real?
>>155332182Boy sure would be interesting if there was a forgotten first spawn of Adam and Lilith who's name is the origin for "demon" looking for Cain
>>155374780>Rosie, Roo, or Lilith: these are the only options for EveOk but I don't understand why those retards don't add Lute as an option in the list. Like cmon? Rosie? Over Lute? What are we doing here?
>>155374898I'm sorry what are you talking about?
>>155374883Images that will age like milk
>>155374909Because Lute just can't be Eve. Ain't no way. She's too... Lute. Eve has to look, act and behave a certain way. Lute doesn't fit that image.
>>155374909They don't wanna think about it. Admitting Lute could be Eve would be admitting their interpretation of the characters they claim to be their favorite was completely and utterly wrong at a fundamental level.
>>155374926Well now this image is recontextualized as Roo cucking Eve. Poor woman can't catch a break at this point.
>>155374966If it were accurate Lute and Adam's places should be swapped.
>>155374977Nah. Eve's whole thing is suffering. Roo understands it builds character. She's just toughening up her strongest schizophrenic soldier.
>>155374992Where is Miles "Tails" Prower when you need him.
>>155375004THE CHAOS EMERALD
The Roo thing reminds me that these theories remain niche outside here. I think Lute!Eve is going to hit the fandom like a truck when/if it happens.
>>155375126Oh absolutely. It's gonna be a complete shit show. Lute Larpers going ape shit. Adam glaziers and fans having their first win and rubbing it in everyone's faces. All the dumb theory fucks shitting their pants. Holyblades fans deleting their accounts or just losing their shit. The few nutcases that knew or theorised Lute was Eve celebrating. I can't wait.
>>155375176>The few nutcases that knew or theorised Lute was Eve celebratingHey be nice, we’re not nutcases. We just took the interviews seriously and noticed how neatly they line up with what the show is doing. This isn’t some galaxy-brained theory we invented to be different. It’s a pretty straightforward conclusion once you start putting the information together.
>>155375176Fallenwings is an underrated loser in all this because a lot of it relies on headcanon that Lute and Vaggie were at one point equals in the Exorcist barracks.
>>155375176>>155375208will someone screencap the salt and put it into the /hhs/?do we have simulators?
>>155375208No talking about us( but I do call you guys nutcases lovingly and I'm also including myself there) but I have seen a couple other people believe or mention Lute being Eve. Few in numbers but they do occasionally show up.
Rosie!Eve is the last remaining counter theory I find even slightly plausible. I don't like it, and it doesn't have as much evidence going for it, but it's there.
>>155375238Oh exactly. It's why I find it such a worthless ship nowadays. Lute being Eve basically completely invalidates all it's "strong" points. Like it no longer has the any dynamic and Adam and the older ladies basically dominate it. Funny thing it's does make Vaggie (if you actually like her and her relationship which Charlie) look a lot better because she's getting the shit beaten out of her by Eve the mother of humanity rather than random exorcist #5769. Sounds better from a feats and powerscalling perspective.
>>155375316You know if Vaggie and the exorcists are Eve clones then those who enjoy Eve x Lucifer imagery can get it through Chaggie.
>>155375305Idk. Always found that theory the biggest nothing burger in existence. It has basically nothing other than vague bullshit. I think it exists because it satisfies the Morningstars Glazers idea of Eve. Having Eve be Rosie is a favourite of theirs because they like the concept of Eve kissing Lucifer's and Lilith's buttholes like she's digging for gold in there.
>>155375345It's also the theory that most strongly implies Eve moved on from Adam a long time ago and doesn't care about him any more so of course that crowd would like it.
>>155375356Yup that's also why they like it. Lute/Eve is gonna make them mald so hard.
How wonderful that one theory can piss off so many different factions in one go.
>>155375356I don't think she moved on, she would be too resentful to let it end like that and I bet if Adam never forgot her then I see her snapping.think of it as hating him as the sole reason she is still going on, without it her life has no meaning.
>>155375371Because they chose to ignore it. For them it was the equivalent of a wound they decided to leave untreated. Suprise suprise not accepting it and dealing with it was a bad idea and now it's infected.
>>155375371>Holyblades fans (the biggest losers in this bar none)>Lute Larpers in general but especially Fallenwings>A surprisingly large subset of Guitarspear fans>Flowertunes/Evilguitar fans who hate Lute>Morningstar glazers>Radioapple schizophrenics who believe in twin theory for some reasonDo I have them all?
Oh, and>Adamsapple fans who wank over muh evil Lilith and Eve breaking are boys hearts
>>155375410Adam fan girls who are super horny for him and hate Lute( there's maybe some overlap with Flowertunes and EvilGuitar)?
>>155375423Oh man I forgot how badly the Adamsapple Fags will react.
How ironic that for once the drama nest that is Radioapple v Radiostatic v Staticmoth will be totally unaffected by a big fandom happening.
>>155375410I guess the only guys who wouldn't make the list are GuitarQueen since with the exception of few most understood their ship had no chance. Their entire existence is just accepting they will never get a W.
>>155375275The Lute/Eve army is winning. Stay strong everyone. These are mighty rough waters.
>>155375444I wonder if they'll stop bickering and just have a collective "wtf is wrong with those guys?" or they will keep the beef going but notice nobody is paying attention to them.
>>155375454They get a minor L because part of the appeal is he bonds with Lilith a second time because Eve never worked out for him. Having Eve stay by him for millenia softens that.
Are there any non-Adam Lute ships that will get a boost from the reveal? The obvious is Roo x Lute but part of me says Velvette x Lute.
>>155375480Oh I agree they take an L I'm just saying I don't see them having a meltdown or making a ruckus like the other guys. The Adam glazers and fans will have a win but they're definitely gonna be inflammatory shits about it. I'm just expecting GuitarQueen to just chill in their corner like always. They're used to getting Ls or getting nothing at all this point.
a reply on Looty's post. The coping is beginning.
>>155375433Adamsapple fujos are going to find ways to twist Lute!Eve's whole thing into abusing Adam somehow (how? I don't know but SOMEHOW.) Just wait for it, it's happening.
>>155375502>Velvette x LuteNot this one. It will have the Fallenwings fate of being lesser post reveal. Plus Eve much like Adam will have that phenomenon where people don't really ship them with the simple sinners and winners (cuz you know their a byproduct of Adam and Eve fucking).Honestly I'm expecting maybe Roo X Lute/Eve but Roo being such a non existent character means it not gonna be anything insane. Maybe Lilith X Lute/Eve but it's gonna be super dependent on how they interact in S3(plus some people might be pissed that Eve is not Flowertunes Eve. They might not like Boss bitch Lilith with boss bitch Lute since they obviously wanted silly cute klutz Eve ). Honestly these two ships are gonna be pretty irrelevant and overshadowed by Adam X Lute/Eve.
>>155375535The irony of someone who has a burner account to reply to people they don't like asking why someone else's account is dedicated to one thing. Also lol that they took the time to reply on her post directly
>>155375565Viv did like a RooxLute post
>>155375571-leave their HC alone, they're just having fun!--also here's why YOUR HC is wrong, akshually-
>>155375565I forgot Lilith/Lute but I think it's getting a boost.The biggest winner is obviously Guitarspear but a lot of the fans seem reluctant to take it. Then again I'm sure there are a lot more who simply never thought about the theory before and will love it.
>>155375558I'm genuinely curious what they come up with. Will they say she raped him? Did she invite and take turns with Lilith raping poor homosexual Adam? Did she babytrap him( they might unironically say this)?
>>155375593>Did... Eve... babytrap Adam....?It sounds so hilariously absurd that I'm pretty sure they'll unironically use this argument.
>>155375578Ok. Doesn't mean it's gonna be super popular. Especially if Roo's appearance is gonna be super delayed. Heck just think how many Roo "fans" are gonna leave after they find out she's not Eve. Maybe S4 or S5 will give some wind for it sails but currently this ship ain't moving at all.
>>155375613Exactly. That's why I mentioned it. It's something I definitely expect them coming up with.
>>155375624Well, unironically, I'm a big Roo fan. I used to believe she was Eve but I like it even more that she isn't. I love god / embodiments of concept / entity-characters. I'm also a big Lute/Eve fan. I want toxic yuri between these two because the POTENTIAL.But I'm prob like less than 1% of the Roo-fanbase, I'm aware.
>>155375624>Heck just think how many Roo "fans" are gonna leave after they find out she's not Eve.A fuck ton of them mainly like her for the tragic Eve angle so yeah they're all gonna leave.
>>155375641Ok but I'm telling you Lute/Eve reveal will unironically nerf a lot of Roo's ships because a lot of them were betting on her being Eve. Heck a lot of Roo "fans" were hoping she's Eve. Now people are gonna figure out she's just the Embodiment of Evil/the Evil Goddess/the actual Devil(shocking I know). Thing is her being so in the background and having almost zero appearances and lines means she's gonna end up abandoned post Lute/Eve reveal until she shows up and does something.
>Looty's document drops>Viv confirms Roo is not EveA big day for the schizophrenic community.
>>155375676We Schizos always get the W. It's in our blood.
>>155375671>Now people are gonna figure out she's just the Embodiment of Evil/the Evil GoddessIt's so fucking hilarious because Viv said it isn't really a spoiler. Not only was it obvious since the first season, but the fact that there was no conscious effort to hide this. It's literally right there in our face. How the fuck did people get Roo is Eve lmao
>>155375676>>155375683We already have the biggest win: Jessica Vosk literally giving the spoiler, but nobody CARES. So we need another one, guys. Either for her to do it again or a leak. My blood pressure is through the roof. I need the Lute/Eve reveal,
Honestly I'm mostly excited for cute art of Adam and Lute/Eve in Eden and after they got kicked out. Kinda sad a lot of the current Eve stuff is gonna be invalided because not looking accurate or Eve being OOC(usually the Flowertunes Eve). Curious if we're gonna get rectified versions or people will just drop the ship entirely. Would love the baby Abel screaming sounding like Patrick Stump but we have Adam and Lute/Eve basedjacking at it.
>>155375801basedjacking*Don't know why it autocorrect to 'basedjacking'
>>155332182I want to have fuck with Lute
>>155375808Adam...
KataraKamensisters.... did we lose?
>>155376024Away with your AI slop
I want Charlie to suck the asexual out of Alastor's dick.
>>155376049Did you mean leaked Season 3 animatics?
>>155376024>The AI slop is dead and buried Things are looking better and better
>>155376024echpurifying this faggy thread STAT
>>155376077I expect we're gonna get RA sloppa but you have to understand Lucifer doesn't need to be raped by Lilith and Eve for him to get together with Alastor. Those two can be gay in peace while Adam gets molested by women (just as God/Viv intended).
Somebody should make a new thread.
>>155333055Why is she mad?
The threads dying. Quickly! Post Sera being lewd!
>>155376192Heretics?
Now with Roo being Evil confirmed, I can say: Roo groomed Lucifer and Lilith. Raped them both, probably.
>>155376194how lewd?
>>155376203She grew a massive cock then proceeded to rape them both with it after they landed in Hell. Funny enough Lucifer was the one that ended up pregnant from the ordeal. Charlie is a butt baby.
>>155376203>threesome implications with Roo Lucifer, and Lilththat sounds hot anonstop it!!
>>155376192lack of D
>>155376236Incredibly! Post her fat ass!
>>155375459It’s come a long way from:> An easily dismissed long-shot fringe theory.to> “Okay, it’s plausible, but unlikely.”and now we’re seeing the next step.> “Alright, there’s a strong chance it could be true!”You’re going to see a lot of people start claiming they’d saw it coming from the start or believed in it early on. Posers, the lot of them. We know who we are and who they are.
>>155377176I've always held that Lute being Eve is plausible, even if I myself am somewhat skeptical of it.
New thread. >>155377266>>155377266
