>>2791783
Maybe if they paid more and didn’t expect 22 year olds to have 8 years experience.

>>2791783
It’s pretty simple. Tradesmen usually take advantage of unskilled people. Young people actually want to do trades but don’t want to be taken advantage off. You can’t expect me to know everything if I’m a beginner. If you do get a job with these tradesmen, they usually yell at you and they’re pretty condescending. You don’t give people chances you expect everyone to be up to your expectations on the first day.

imagine actually having to work with 4channers.
fat, fucked up teeth, retarded
imagine having to go to work with retards everyday tolerating them
it's the primary reason the trades are dying

>>2791783
Your npr article about high paying jobs changes nothing.
Companies bitch and moan about being unable to hire people or talk about how much their willing to pay but it's all lies.
I remember applying to BNSF a couple years ago when they were offering $8500 sign on bonuses and paid training for 30+ openings. I was immediately rejected, no interview. I gaurantee almost all of these companies get plenty of applicants.
And then my experience has been that when you do get hired, you will get paid much less than the advertised pay and raises will be much fewer and smaller than advertised.

So why are trades dying?
>yes, really, shit pay
>dealing with shitty bosses
>dealing with shitty contractors
>dealing with shitty customers
>dealing with other shitty tradies
>dealing with shady business practices like not getting the pay or benefits or breaks promised in your employment contract/state law

Then you have classic boomer retardation to blame:
>why hire and train white people to do a skilled job when I can just pay these illegal beaner crackheads $5/hr to do the same thing?
>wow look how fast they work!
>hey how come skilled craftsmanship is disappearing and everything is built so shoddy these days?
>they just don't make them like they used to

That's why heavy industry is where it's at. It's like a trade but the people you work with respect you and don't hire illegal immigrants.

>>2791854
You forgot
>hires the cheapest employees
>Why is everyone so lazy and keeps missing work?

>>2791862
^Truth and wisdom.

>>2791783
>Why is this so ????

it's not the pay, it's the State licensing that's a barrier to even get into these jobs

In most States to get into Plumbing, HVAC or Electrical you have to first be an apprentice for 3 or more years before you can even take the licensing test.
Problem being very few established trades companies hire on apprentices.
They'll hire on employees, who can work under the license of the company owner, but that's not a path to be able to get your own license.
And even if they do hire on apprentices, the apprentice gets burned out being treated as a nearly unpaid slave.
And if the apprentice leaves that company and goes to another company, their apprenticeship time starts all over again, so if the apprentice leaves a company with only 1 year left of a 3 year apprenticeship, they start back over for another 3 years at the new company.
Companies know this, they know that the apprentices don't want to loose the time they've put in, so the apprentices get treated like crap.
Even then, if you manage to make it through all the hurdles to get the Master Tradesman to sign off on you having completed your apprenticeship, you then have to pay several thousands of dollars to the State to take the test to get licensed.
Then there's the insurance, if you try to strike out on your own as a licensed sole operator the insurance is CRIPPLINGLY expensive.

tl:dr the boomers created a protectionist system that bars entry of younger competition.
it's why the vast majority of the trades companies are family operations, father to son, father to son, etc.

locally we had a Joint Vocational school the shut down it's Trades program as the local trades companies just entirely stopped hiring apprentices from the JVS, and without the trades companies hiring on apprentices, the JVS couldn't justify keeping those courses going.

>>2791783
They're considered low-class.
The image of the highly competent, sharp, tall, handsome white tradie is a relic of the past. It isn't 1950 anymore. Zoomers want to be pornographers for a living. Just a chasm of difference.

>>2791887
>>2791854
Forgot to add the fact that all these trades are expecting everyone to already be “skilled” before they even start! It’s too much pressure anymore to even bother trying when they’re just going to trash talk you and treat you like dirt. No wonder the trades are dying.

>>2791887
Protectionism dates to guilds which were the early way to slow race to the bottom.

>>2791943
>No wonder the trades are dying.
You people are so fucking retarded you just brainless repeat retarded shit you heard someone else say, most of the posters on this site have no fucking clue what they are talking about.
What does it even mean to say "the trades are dying" if there is work to be done then someone will be paid to do the work. The only way "the trades could be dying" if there was no work to be done.
And the reason you got filtered is because they don't want to spend valuable time training some vocal fry zoomer faggot who they can tell won't make it anyways.

>>2791887
>it's not the pay, it's the State licensing that's a barrier to even get into these jobs
>tl:dr the boomers created a protectionist system that bars entry of younger competition.

Very well put and accurate. Even with good intentions, licensing has become just a state revenue apparatus. In my state the GC test is OPEN BOOK. You just need the money and basically a sponsor(another licensed contractor).
The current system keeps wages high but shuts off a lot entry. I know a ton of guys that are licensed, just not in the work they're actually doing. Because a "General Contractors" license is anything but "General."

>>2791783
>locally we had a Joint Vocational school the shut down it's Trades program as the local trades companies just entirely stopped hiring apprentices from the JVS, and without the trades companies hiring on apprentices, the JVS couldn't justify keeping those courses going.
When I was in high school years ago they had a whole vocational wing. Mainly for auto mechanics and agriculture. You used to be able to earn credits towards a vocation and transfer over after high school. I'm not even sure if local high schools around me even offer those anymore.

>>2791783
A YouTube video as sauce? Lol. Lmao even. An article from 2018? Come on OP, we all know you're a faggot, but it's like you aren't even trying. Honestly, if the number of posters was still listed you'd see that there are two boomers and two guys sitting in their mom's basement eating tendies arguing about this shit. No one cares, because things have changed since 2018.

1/10 made me respond

It's truly a wonder why people don't want to slave like a nigger to some boomer for 5 years at $15 an hour to "apprentice" when they could make $18 at Mcdonalds.

>>2791783
Trade jobs are for retards who can't figure out how to become a licensed contractor the reason they don't pay much these days also immigrants who come and work non union jobs making it hard to compete plain and simple, to become a union journeyman and travel to job sites that pay top dollar u need a number of hours to complete as an apprentice from 3000 to 8000 plus school to qualify for the license exam, if u apply to a union u either have to be lucky af if there is demand but usually u have to have family tied to that union to get into their program, if u're young, have no experience, want to have a creer but can't go to college for whatever reason check ur local union halls and learn about these trades, in boomer days doing this and just working in the union as many hours available got u a comfy life and very good retirement, today u need to learn the trade and get out as soon as possible, that's what my formen told me and that's exactly what i did, i also went to college for construction management and gc to be able to to get better contracts for my business
t.ibew master electrician

>>2792039
You've definitely got the "barely literate tradie" thing going.

>>2791790
Im not boomer old but I'm millennial old who has had a business for now 15-20 years, have trained many workers and also been that bottom of the rung worker. Don't take it personally as I may be misinterpreting but.
>Taken advantage of
Usually this means doing the shit nobody else wants to do. This isn't "taking advantage" it's just parts of the job that have to get done and somehow the guy who just joined with no experience thinks it's mean to make them haul material for half the day and watch us work for the other half. This is normal. It sucks, but it's not some cruel act.
>Expect to know everything as a beginner
It's true that once you are in any trade some things are so obvious you forget what someone who is fresh doesn't know, things as simple as hunting for water on a job, how to push a wheelbarrow up a ramp, how much water should be in a sponge when grouting etc. simple tasks we do expect you to know and it's a shame when a boss is a dick about it, but...they are gonna be a dick fine, tell them to get fucked.
>Being condescending
It took me a while to fully grasp that my boss wasn't just there to do a job and run the process, there was a lot of risk, reputation, finding work so you can feed your workers and yourself etc. Once I was on my own, it dawned on me that every boss I told to fuck off because they were mean we're just stressed plus some lack of social skills and education, all they knew was construction from a time where they were allowed to just rant sexist, racist horrible shit at each other all day.
>Things changing
If you don't want to deal with the above, join a union and play by the rules, youll have managers and supervisors to complain to and that'll be that. The dinosaurs are being replaced. Personally the best quality work I've seen are from the mean, ogre of men who are difficult to work for/with. But you learn the most and you are given opportunities that can accelerate your skills faster than a union setup.

>>2791955
This. It's the opposite, there has never been a better chance to replace a hoard of dying masters. I'm in my 30s, look literally like a homeless person and have so much work via word of mouth I don't know what to do with myself. All my clients complain they can't find workers. What I do see happening is that big builders are being dicks, the old men knew that when you had a good crew, you kept them rain or shine. Their kids took over, hired lawyers and accountants and now fire everyone to save a dollar here and there. Project ends, mass lay off, replace with the lowest paid worker, repeat. So if you want to do well in any of the "basic" trades like carpentry or painting etc. you have to serve only the super rich, who actually pay for quality. That or you specialize, specialized electrician, HVAC, technician work for elevators or other mechanics etc. Besides those two spheres being a tradie just sucks.my 2 cents anyways

Okay so i have experience living in Australia and southern California and here are my opinions on the trades situation in both of these places

>Australia
Trades definitely not dying, like 1 in 4 guys from my high school went into the trades despite life as an apprentice being absolutely shit for most people.Certain trades definitely have shortages, like bricklaying, hardly anyone young going into that trade and that's probably because of the reputation it has for being rough. Well it's a shame but its a dying trade anyway so I guess it doesn't matter, everything that was once built out of brick can now be formed up by a carpenter and poured with concrete. It'll be ugly but so is everything else modern so whatever. The reason they say there is a trade shortage is because they are importing a million brown cunts a year and they need white people to build houses for them because these brown cunts are useless and can't do anything except consume.

>Southern California
Not really a worker shortage, just a shortage of good workers. Retarded brown people who can do a bit of everything are a dime a dozen but not many truly skilled craftsmen around. Parents from middle class families dissuade their kids from going into the trades because the trades are seen as a thing that mexicans do and not white people. Also the young white people here are fucking retarded and not reliable, none of them really understand that while the pay may be average at first if you put your time in and learn the trade you can easily be charging $50-60 an hour for yourself in like 4-5 years. And most trades are going to be paying like $25 an hour starting so way above minimum wage.

>>2791783
i thought about becoming an electrician. i live in philly. the union pays really well at the journeyman level. last i checked, apprentices, however, were still getting paid like $20/hour. good luck surviving on that.

>>2791948
god you people are retarded

>>2792228
So you expect to get paid journeymen level when you don't know shit? Retards kids I swear. It's an investment. On 4 years you'll be making like $70 an hour or whatever the fuck journeymen union sparkies make

>>2791783
America is a service and soon to be an information economy

Production and farming are in the past

>>2792289
when i was considering it 4 years ago it was $16-17/hour and i was making $70k at the time. stuck with what i was doing and now im making $115k so it's working out.

>>2792292
Modern farming requires skilled equipment maintainers and operators, not (except for crops still requiring manual harvest and the baseline general labor for any such business) meatbag general labor in large quantity.

Beware sloppy generalizations.

>>2791783
Oy very! Don't take trade jobs goyim! Go to our communist indoctrination academy where you pay is to learn why chopping your dick or tits off is good. Let these jobs be done by the illegals we bring in instead!

>>2791790
can confirm. It happened to me when I was trying to get into grading. condescending fuck I worked with was a preacher and still talked shit behind my back constantly and blow up on me sometimes. They were alienating as well since I was a good ole boy with a room temp iq like most of them were.

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>>2791783
This honest carpenter guy really wants to suck mike rowe right in the penus

>>2791783
Whitey foreman/gc/manager wasn't racist. Sure hire the Mexicans, Russians, whatever

20 years later, they're the bosses now.
>crew is 100% people from their own country, they get in fights with the Russian crew.

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>>2792342
There was no one else to hire you fucking dumbass racist.

Quit crying about replacement theory when your pale ass has no fucking children and you will probably never even have a gf

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>>2792344
I see I was correct

>replacement theory

>>2791783
Kids dont even like cars anymore. With no car culture, there is no interest in blue collar sensibilities

>>2792292
You can't eat information. We still live in a physical reality. Production and farming are more valuable when less people know how to produce and farm.
Contrary to the old saying, Knowledge is NOT power. Knowledge APPLIED is power.

>>2792354
Robits will be growing all the tomatoes anon

>>2792372
When robots can power, maintain, fix, and perpetuate themselves, let me know.

>>2792372
Great, we can send all the Mexican's back then!

>>2791887
>the insurance is CRIPPLINGLY expensive.
How much do you think $1mil of insurance as a workman do you think it actually costs per year?

Wait so some of you are upset in order to be in the trades you get paid like shit and worked hard doing inexperienced shit while being paid and a few licenses or certifications proving you know how to safely build a fucking house is why young people aren't getting into trades?

So the alternative is taking out massive loans,4 years of unpaid learning, then starting at a job getting paid like shit for the first few years of their careers is the logical choice being made?

>>2792605
Nobody wants to put forth any effort to get started or earn their place. They all want the highest paying job off the bat with as close to as zero effort as possible.

Oh and they will only put in a maximum of 40 hours a week, not one second more.

>>2792606
Yeah, you can find crews to do certain jobs like paint, roofing, framing, whatever. You just do sales and own the place, take all the profit and never touch a hammer.

>>2792606
>>2792610
And this is why most general contractors become contractors. Because they don't want to do the actual work themselves.
Don't confuse licenses with certifications.

>>2791862
like what exactly? driving a monster truck at a mine? not too many and normally go to retarded family of company execs and owners.

"US Navy frigate behind schedule due to staffing shortage at shipyard!" Pay is absolute shit, like when you factor in a few factors, its at or BELOW fast food, with less advancement.

I've done construction in Silicon Valley and even on a Public School job with Union Contractors they will use unskilled Illegals to do electrical work on major remodels, and have the real Sparky show up for two days when it gets inspected.

it's not that hard to understand. our parents who were in trades and knew how hard they were working told an entire generation to get some higher education, so they don't have to work so hard. that's what we did. now that sectore is oversaturated and trades are dying. now you can see a reversal starting to happen - I'm pretty sure our kids will get told to get into a trade.

but at the same time trade work isn't really attractive when you could get an physically easier job.

>>2792082
>This isn't "taking advantage" it's just parts of the job that have to get done
this entire sentence, while there is truth in it, shows a core problem. coworkers are tasked to teach new people. often times they have no interest in that, lack any teaching skills, are annoyed that they're tasked to do it or various other reasons. "let them do the dirty work" is one of the worst ways to teach new people. the dirty work has to be done too, I get it. but start teaching the new hire on day one so they become useful as quick as possible while sharing the dirty work. this way the new hire not only feels appreciated but sees that cleaning up and hauling shit is everybody's responsibility. this way you create a much better environment.

so as a boss you need to look out for people who want and CAN teach new people too. and preferably not just one dude but multiple

>>2792082
So do I just tough it out when dealing with a condescending jackass? I've managed to move up quickly at a new company, receiving training from multiple department heads. This has really pissed off a supervisor that's been there for 14 years, as well as made others jealous I imagine. I just go to work pissed off every day because of him

>>2792696
>but at the same time trade work isn't really attractive when you could get an physically easier job.
This. You can easily make 6-figures even starting out in most trades however those 50-hour work weeks of demolishing your body basically aren't worth the money or owrking conditions.

Ever see a master plumber elbow-deep in sewage to fix a pipe? I wouldn't do that job for less than thousands of dollars per hour.

>>2792747
>Ever see a master plumber elbow-deep in sewage to fix a pipe?

no, and you haven't either, not in a civilized country. actually do some plumbing then talk about it.

>>2792752
No, but I have seen the owner of the company in a brand new $100k truck show up to supervise Enrique the 5'3" mexican digging the hole to get to the sewage pipe for 6 hours under a house.

Go touch pipes yourself.

>>2792754
>supervise Enrique the 5'3" mexican

I repeat: "civilized", which does not include your owner friend, and Enrique is not a "master plumber" if he swims in shit to fix a pipe

>Go touch pipes yourself.

I've repaired fucked up sewer lines in a pond of sewage and I've yet to have to touch the stuff. I have sense, unlike you and your owner friend and Enrique. Sure, some macho shitheads take pride in not being "afraid" of it, but intelligent plumbers NEVER find themselves elbow-deep in sewage, EVER.

I have a policy: I only reply to idiots once, and then I let them have the last word. Do your best, then have a nice day. I'm out of here. bye.

>>2792757
>I have a policy: I only reply to idiots once
You've replied to this idiot at least twice so far. And you're making shit up because plumbers generally have to get dirty and come in contact with shitwater they never want to but thats how water splashes around. If you're a plumber that never touches gross stuff, you're probably working in new construction and not repairing or replacing old stuff.
>I've repaired fucked up sewer lines in a pond of sewage and I've yet to have to touch the stuff.
Yeah? You use your extra long wrenches and do it from the shitpond shore?

>>2792039
i like that this is one big sentence.

>>2792747
>demolishing your body
as opposed to sitting in an office chair for your entire career, and dying at 40 from diabetes and obesity like 99% of white collar workers

>>2792825
Yeah, sitting at a computer and getting regular exercise with other healthy habits always leads to diabetes, obesity, and death at 40. Compared to 99% tradies that get addicted to opiates, develop alcoholism, and are crippled by 40 unable to walk to the mail box.

>see, I can make up dumb shit too

>>2791783
who cares?

>>2792738
Rant
Not to get to esoteric, but I decide how I feel and that nobody can move me from that state. When I deal with jackasses I usually remain very calm and let them sort of trip over themselves. If someone is particularly aggressive I always try to get to the solution of whatever needs solving and if they are incapable I just go above their head.

As a company owner there are a handful of people I actually have just refused to work with. Eg. They want to be the contractor on a project, I have to work with them, if they fuck me or try to fuck me I simply say "the project is done, my services are no longer available to you, feel free to pass my number to the owner etc. and I'll work with them directly". I don't like getting fucked. Generally I just hold my ground and if things get a little too out of hand I start packing, I've walked off 2-3 jobs in the last 20 years. I'm too good at my job to be abused and I have a good reputation so it hasnt hurt my business.

Ultimately I was this way as a worker and as an owner. I'm not aggressive but if people are a little to mean or aggressive I plainly tell them something like - they should calm down, I won't continue working if they don't collect themselves, can we be civil, let's be professional or at worst, "we are not a good fit, I will not be continuing here, sorry" and leave. Usually the result is whoever is more important than them calling me to discuss what happened and not to worry they won't act a certain way.

What you should never do is dabble where you are not strong. I'm not someone who yells and screams, I'm someone who is calm and cool, so if someone really pisses me off id rather pull them into my skill set than fall into the rage hole they are very comfortable with. Make them feel small, manipulate the situation to your benefit. A boss who is extremely mean or threatening responds quickly to "this behavior is not acceptable, if you continue I'll be reporting this to the head super".

>>2791783
And yet the unions will still vote for Pedophile, or one of his idiot Dem replacements, just like they did for Obamby and watch the jobs fly overseas:)

Because I make $25/hour being a cable man but not in a trade.
I can go pick up a CCNA and make even more at the drop of a hat.
I'd love to do electrical stuff, but I'm not about to spend 5 years making less than a Walmart employee while having to buy my own tools while the older folks steal them.
I'm not going to work out in the fucking 100 degree weather and shit in a portapotty for less than $30/hour, sweetie.

machinist bros, the QRD?
manual machinist or cnc machinist? Supposedly you can get paid pretty good or something but I don't got good enough grades to get into university and I'm a year behind in math.

>>2792606
Let me know when it gets any easier to live in a large amount of this country while putting in the time learning and making shit money. Let me know when people can AFFORD to put in the time to earn their place. okay boomer

>>2792082
>>Taken advantage of
>Usually this means doing the shit nobody else wants to do.
my dad was a mechanic and hes constantly wary of mechanics fucking up his shit and stealing parts right off his rig, I dont know what the hell your business is but it was obvious what that faggot is talking about. are you actually trying to make it sound like this kind of thing doesn't happen or are you just in some kind of goldylocks industry?

>>2792082
>it's just parts of the job that have to get done and somehow the guy who just joined with no experience thinks it's mean to make them haul material for half the day and watch us work for the other half. This is normal. It sucks, but it's not some cruel act.
this is a shitty way to teach someone anything.
>It's true that once you are in any trade some things are so obvious you forget what someone who is fresh doesn't know, things as simple as hunting for water on a job,
I have never met any boomer who does not lose their shit if you ask questions about anything, get mad at you for checking their work, nor provide adiquate instructions when ignored. These people demand for you to simply smile and nod. I'm glad I did not become a tradie nor do I really want to, because its filled with people like this. But I genuinely feel bad for the young people who took genuine interest in what their parents do, only to realize meeting their expectations was rendered impossible by their own egotistical behavior. Instead if they are fortunate, they have to look through randos and hope they get someone with a better temperment than their own flesh and blood.
>all they knew was construction from a time where they were allowed to just rant sexist, racist horrible shit at each other all day.
I don't know what it is about people these days but most of the sexist racist horrible shit saying people I know tend to be the kindest while people complaining about that shit like you tend to be the worst. You seem to be conflating that shit with boomers, who collectively behave poorly as a rule regardless of belief system. As a tranny, nothing would make me feel more comfortable than someone poping a troon joke or saying careful not to ack yourself on the skill saw. having to watch your word every 2 seconds sucks dick most of the time. The issue is not with chimping out, it's why and when. I don't want to be chimped out at when I am trying to learn or worse doing a favor.

not reading any posts
muratic acid
MOST states DO NOT have a union and are saturated in cheap immigrant labor
the pay is atrocious unless you have a union, and if you do the pay is totally worth the ~4 year program, so anyone complaining about unions is retarded
i worked in a union state planning to leave so never certified as an apprentice but my boss was paying me way more with 1 year experience (i'm competent, learned fast, and could be trusted) then i'm now making in a right-to-work state without unions as a freakin manager
i have 3 years experience now managing people with 20-30 years and they're all fuckin retarded and unreliable
new construction is tiny fuckin margins because of the cheap labor force
all the money, fun, pleasure is in small time remodel work
all new construction outside union states is TERRIBLE because of cheap labor and boomer builders

>>2793021
also piece rate employment is retarded
boomers literally just established shit systems that are china tier and it's going to be really obvious the upcoming decades as all our infrastructure falls apart and doesn't get replaced

>>2793021
>muratic acid
don't you mean muriatic? Also, that wouldn't solve anything. Why do middle easterners resolve to acids they can't even spell?

>>2793009
anyone?

>>2793026
it's a meme who cares
nothing is going to solve anything except collapse and/or seperating yourself from the bullshit and just doing upper-class private work

>>2792899
>What you should never do is dabble where you are not strong
That's actually really helpful, thanks. I'm not gonna let him run me off so easy

>>2793021
ha ha union workers are just glorified laborers

there is not a single union worker in any trade who could do something that compares to the tradesmen working on high end custom homes

the audacity of union carpenters even calling themselves carpenters when the closest thing they do to carpentry is hammer duplex nails

>>2793058
a glorified. english speaking, legal white man laborer is still way better than illegal subcontractors
the gatekeep of unions makes a huge difference and raises wages to attract intelligent white people
i understand 90% of people in every field are shit but you obviously don't understand how bad it is in states where it's completely OK to subcontract mexican shit with no certs what soever

>>2793009
It's fun work. With cnc you could potentially move into programming and make bank. With manual it's a lot more hands on and you feel like you made something, it's also going to be more one off work I think so you'll be doing different things more often.
The safer route is CNC, you'll always find CNC work

>>2792606
>Noooooo why ain't dem workers with proper training and certifications willing to work for crumbs like dem browns from da border?

>Noooooo why dem tradies so concerned about making a living wage in a bad economy?

>Noooooo why ain't dem tradies finding enough work hours to get by?

You senile idiot.

>hard dangerous work
>shit pay
>shit bosses
>fuck tones of gate keeping (licensing, permits and unions)
I wonder why no one wants to work in the trades

What do I do if my boss catches me watching anime on break? He looks at me like I'm a faggot every time I speak to him now and ignores me when he can

This whole thread is people talking past one another.

The trades sucks and getting to a career from a trades job is very difficult. The trades are dying because everyone knows that you get maybe 20 years of tradesjob and then you are pretty much kicked to the curb unless you can move up into management or get a license. Maybe if you are lucky you will find someone who will pity you for a minute and give you a job when you are 40 for a dollar under scale.

>>2793526
Yep

>>2793526
I work with a few old farts that managed to hang in there, but the toll it takes on your body is brutal. The ones that are forced to go on are the ones that didn't save throughout their careers and are forced to keep going to make ends meet. Sitting behind a machine in a shop seems to be the easiest (relatively) on your body, though you have to deal with a lot of workplace bullshit. As a college graduate that switched to the trades, I think it is still the better choice as long as you make smart decisions during your career.

>>2791783
Trades is too broad a term. A welder for a nuke plant can lead a long, comfy well-paid career and gain certs to do inspections. A wire welder assembling trailers not so much.

An auto mechanic working retail who never advances won't do near as well as my former boss who started a used car lot and built his stock repairing auction buys. He died old and rich.

My machine shopownerbro is happy and rich. His wife does CAD and runs the books. His best workers do a few years and move upward with bigger firms. The bottom feeders are content but don't advance.

>>2791783
idk how it is where you are, but in SW US it's boomers and genx contractors hiring mexicans, and a lot of contractors stiff them on pay, and this has been happening for a while

a competent crew can make SO much fucking money out here it's just waiting in a sea of unskilled labor that's flooding jobsites

>>2793631
Most of the tradesmen who make it to old fart status do so through getting into a maintenance role at some point, or just retire into disability once they have a house and car paid off. It is a very inhuman system and the number of guys I have met who have the "ideal" trades retirement (Union Pension and large savings), all have some choice words about how the union was great until they get to the tail end of their career and they get to see more how the sausage is made. There is a lack of virtue in the unions and especially in the management of the unions.

>Sitting behind a machine in a shop seems to be the easiest (relatively) on your body, though you have to deal with a lot of workplace bullshit

I think those guys are universally old fucks. There may be a generational reason for that though as they don't pump out tool & die journeymen like they used to.

I'd note that every tradesmen I have ever met sent their kids to college even if they were taking over the family trade, and nearly universally told their kids to go into government work. Disgusting.

>>2791871
also
>Pays below industry averages
>It's just not worth hiring and training anyone, they don't stick around !

>>2793206
what trade in 2024 is dangerous?
Hard is more a function of technique, the right tools, and keeping yourself in shape

People that "ruin their bodies" work too many hours

>>2793709
Arborist, truck driver, utility lineman

>>2793185
thanks anon.
I don’t see how a bunch of gcode translates to programming experience though but that’s a relief

>>2793784
You "program" using a CAM software such as MasterCAM to create the movements that make the part. The experience you get CNC machining helps you know what kind of shit you can get away with programming

>>2793799
^This and shitty designs abound from those who do not.

>>2792449
> power, maintain, fix, and perpetuate themselves
Self replicating nanotechnology making humans into synthetics from the deathshot is an immediate example that comes to mind. So, it's not happening outwardly as most are anticpating,

>>2792145
I'll be going into a trade school, but I work my shitty warehouse wagie job in the meantime to build the funds.
Warehouse work is always retarded, but it's fun to use the machinery and it's good experience understanding maintenance.

>>2793702
A bunch of "i gots mine" types. Easy to fall into that trap when you work a trade where you service people who can't do a lot of basic things that people before us, from all of all walks of life, casually knew how to do.

>>2794031
The more we know about nano technology and how our own cells work, the more it looks like nanotechnology is hardly gonna do shit.

>go to work
>yet yelled at by some 500lb high school drop out for shit you can't control
>he doesn't know how anything works the higher ups don't give a fuck so you just take it
>your wife just got a nursing certificate and already makes more money than you
>your coworkers will throw you under the fucking bus for any little thing
>office workers don't even want to talk to you because they think you are beneath them
it's difficult to keep that passion for work when it's just humiliating in a lot of ways. It would be worth it if the supervisors in trades weren't always the biggest retards you'll ever meet

>>2793799
I wouldn’t focus on programming, they already have AI generated 3D printing slicers and a lot of CAM programs have a premium AI enchanted feature set

Ya a matter of time before you can input your work holding , stock size and machine capabilities and tools on hand and “slice” your machine program for simple parts. Using a large language model.

A lot of AI programs can already write Gcode from scratch with language inputs

“Write a safety block, face a 6061 2.5” x2.5” x2.5” block by 20’thou with a 1” endmill”

“Canned cycle drill path, peck by 100 thou return to safety plane”

And it will do it

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Low ceiling trades:
>Carpentry/scaffolding, plumbing, insulators, roofing, small engine mechanics
These jobs can pay livable wages but you will find yourself stuck in city construction, tooling around in a beat up service truck (or your own vehicle), and working with drug addicts/divorcees. I will say that industrial carpenters, concrete workers, and insulators make more money working out of town and do get adequately compensated for busting their asses.
>High ceiling trades: welding (pipeline/stainless steel), heavy duty mechanic, millwrights, electrician/instrumentation, ironworkers
These trades can set you up on a path to impressive 6-figure salaries if you were to attend training for project management, consulting, or power engineering/maintenance contracts.

Tradesmen who take care of themselves, aren't fucktards, have financial smarts, and know not to bring harm to their bodies have many opportunities to land gravy gigs that pay as much or more than post-secondary graduates. Their will always be a need for someone digging with a shovel or hauling material, but you can do some research and take courses to be a guy who TELLS someone how deep a trench needs to be or what kind of equipment needs to be installed

>>2794181
Plumbers can make insane money if they own their own business, even those doing work for a general can make decent cash. But carpentry, insulation, roofing, framing, basically anything the mexican crews can do they'll do it for much cheaper than you and isn't worth messing with.

Welding has become a meme; because so many people heard welders make $200k a month the trade has become ultra saturated and some welders are basically making $16/hr doing the exact same weld for 9 hours a day. Once you get really fucking good, you're still in the brutal struggle of either working for a major company that needs shit to pass x-ray tests, or you're working for a custom fab shop, but don't hold out for either of those because you'll need to wait for those welders to die before you'll be hired. Electricians can be hit or miss, but a decent one is just like a plumber; have your own business and get with the right foreman they'll keep you busy forever. Iron workers are a bunch of crybabies.

>>2794210
You make some good points, it really is what you make of your career and your home life situation. I'm not knocking a plumber who has to stay in town to work so he can be close to his family, just like any other mechanical trade.

I've been a sparky for 11 years and I've done just about everything except maintenance. I plan on taking power engineering courses to become an operator for some oil and gas company, sit in a mod building in the middle of nowhere watching Formula 1 races and going out checking readings every now and then.

The money in industrial/oil & gas is absurd but I don't want to subject my body to years of inhaling coke dust, NORMs, or have some brown man scaffolder drop a pair of wire nippers on my head.

>>2794211
>it really is what you make of your career and your home life situation.
This es exactly why you should never go into a specific trade like "welding" because someone who isn't a welder heard apprentices make $50k with no experience and good welders make $250k. Thats that same dumbass meme of "get into computer information technologies with this certificate and make $100k a year because everyone in IT makes 6-figures!" then they end up being a help desk monkey for $15/hr for 5 years before they realize they've been duped and the job is ultra saturated.

Its almost impossible to see the forest for the trees, but yeah you can make a lot of money doing almost any trade and you're not a complete moron with your own finances and investments. And I don't mean investments in a stock market. An investment into a tool to get the job done better or faster. A lot of younger guys in trades think they should get the best tools and a lifted truck and call that an investment.

>>2791785
>Maybe if they paid more and didn’t expect 22 year olds to have 8 years experience.

=EIGHT= years? I've seen some where they wanted ten, for an entry wage of $12.00/hr.

>>2791854
This. The industry I'm in, most companies used to supply specialized tooling and gauges, now they are expecting the entry level mechanics to provide these. And that entry level wage has been plummeting, while these companies boast record profits.

>>2794181
my Fiancé is a Carpenter Apprentice in the Seattle area, work in the region completely dried up due to budget cuts after the massive COVID shutdowns here.

thousands of union members are out of work through all of the trades and the halls have no answer for it, yet they expect you to keep paying your dues. she hasnt even received a dispatch call in 6 months. their only advice is to go solicit yourself at job sites but there is no active list of current job sites, just the jobs that hired people the week before (and therefore arnt hiring anyway).

>>2794463
Maybe its because they don't like him. Its also seattle so fuck that place.

>>2791783
i was a welder in southern oregon for a year. i did mig and mostly worked on aluminium. i was apprenticing under one of our cities 3 tig welders.
i made more than 70% of the people in that building.

i still made $1.80 less than the local walmart payed stoners to sweep up isles. and about $3.90 less than walmart paid stoners to work the self checkout register.

i understand that not everyone is going to start well off. that one must work his way to a higher pay. but we consider walmart wages poverty tier. anything below that is not worth skipping meals or heat for the winter. i have so much hate for the factory owners, who get together to play poker every weekend, and -cohen-cidently all pay the same wages.

>>2794487
>i was apprenticing under one of our cities 3 tig welders.
Why don't you fucking morons refuse to work until you get a raise if theres only 4 of you in the entire city? You 4 could play poker and coincidentally charge $500 per hour. How about this; You force your city council to agree to some bullshit made up southern oregon union or welders permit and boom, you've cornered the market. I assume you dont' work for 'the city' but you meant theres 4 total tig welders including you in the city.

You haven't thought about this while losing brain cells on fumes?

>>2794487
I got a job in an office after college once,

You know we were all paid pretty well, had university degrees basically emailed each other all day

The safety meetings were about carpel tunnel from typing too much, back problems from sitting all day and making sure the women don’t get too cold in the air conditioning

Now I’m dodging drops off the lathe from ww2 that throws them at the side of the cnc mill

And try to breathe in an unairconditikned non-ventilated warehouse with oil mist coolant making the air thick

>>2793009
I went to school for machining (both manual and cnc, programming included) and currently work as a cnc operator waiting for a position in the tool room to become available. The pay will never be good, but it can certainly be enough. Moving into programming or engineering will absolutely net you more than machining, but personally I have the machine autism and like watching it go brrr, so I'd rather stay a machinist.

>>2794515
the one i apprenticed under is a drug addict, probably still is. i learned more from youtube than him. i do not expect them to be able to do much of anything after work hours. so i bailed and got a very specific job where i am currently very near the top of my very specific field.

>>2794572
thats a rough downgrade bro.

>>2792292
god you are a retarded faggot, i hope you kill yourself. pied pippers like yourself keep leading us off the cliff, now we are falling and trying to grab onto something and you're all
>lol now we are a pitfall economy, soon to transition to a bottom of the pit economy, just embrace it goy

meanwhile, the same dual citizenship JEWS who write these articles and push this meme are literally taking your money and setting up factories and aggricultural in their home country of israel. China is too. Every single country the jew outsources our 'everything' too, those countries double down and use the profits to reinforce their own production because ownership is king.

we arent transitioning to an information economy, we are transitioning to institutionalized serfdom.

>>2794210
>Plumbers can make insane money if they own their own business

yeah. by cheating people
>oey vey goyim i need 100$ an hour, deadline unknown. Oh man i tiled your bathroom but they cracked so now you need to pay me 6 hours of labor to undo my own work, then do it over again. Hopefully they dont crack this time amirite ;)

>>2794817
I can tell you're stupid because you're paying a PLUMBER to lay tile in your bathroom. Try using a flooring or tile contractor next time.

And yeah, plumbers in some areas can charge whatever the fuck they want because the alternative is paying a plumber an hour away who will charge $300 fuel surcharge then tell you to go fuck yourself because you're not worth the drive to work on your plumbing.

>>2794639
The cnc production job oddly feels more productive…

Like how are those little Palestinian kids going to get drone strikes if I’m not out there on the shop floor cutting metal ?!

We can’t let those little anti-semites live

>>2793009
Seconding this. I’ve never programmed before and am shit at math, would I still be able to do cnc? Can it be a comfy gig?

>>2794983
You do not need to know anything to be a CNC operator.

>>2791783
>Why is this so ????
Personally i left it because i had to deal with a lot of shitheads.

I trade my machines time for money. manual is for repair therefore dealing with people who want to fuck around about price. I can do anything on a cnc that i can do on manual but that is from experience having to do fucked up shit for previous employers. a basis in manual machines helps in cnc. again i trade my machines time for money if dont understand just pick up the shovel retard.

Boomers have gatekept the trades so hard they aren't even worth pursuing for most. Wanted to drill a water well in Texas in my backyard. You need 2 years of experience under a licensed driller which includes 15 bore holes and 15 pump installs as well as a passing score on the test. 2 years to drill a fucking hole in my backyard. Meanwhile you can be a Jew and take the series 7 and sell financial products to teenagers in much shorter time with zero experience.

Is two years of experience going to keep me from fucking up the water table? Fuck no. If anything pissing away two years is going to make me cut corners. Boomers don't give you any way to compromise. Can't have an inspector come out and license you on the hole you drilled, but you can have someone at the DMV ride alongside you to get your license? Boomers really ruined everything.

>>2792145
Forgot how racist and uninformed Aussies are. Fair dinkum, Bob is your rapey uncle. Why does your armed forces wear those gay ass shorts?

>>2795224
>therefore dealing with people who want to fuck around about price.

Cull clients to large industry only (they're still dicks and treat you as a bank like any shop). My bro got very rich doing repair machining since apparently even German quality has become roach guest worker quality. He's basically rebuilt brand new machines for a tire company because the OEM in Germany gives zero fucks.

He also does stuff like welding cast iron (Crown Alloys MIG wire is glorious) for a local sausage company but now insists they clean everything before he'll touch is because gearboxes full of maggots. (He doesn't eat their sausage after that.)

>>2791783
Its the first person I have seen who tried to adress this issue, ON THE WHOLE PLANET. The first fucking ever. Even on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DRm86qmXbs&t

it is mostly unguided "free for all"

>>2795800
oh shit I meant this link

https://t.me/WorkingMenMemes

Why the fuck are there literally only a handful of skilled dudes who want to right the wrongs on this planet. Every day its another big shouting match between some religious, philosophical or political issue that never resolves anything.

>>2791783

they're not actually dying out, countries are just figuring out they can hire foreigners to do most construction jobs.

think about a village of polish workers. are you cheaper than the cheapest of those workers? are you more talanted than the most talented of them? if the answer is no then you're not gonna be able to compete on price or quality, doesn't matter what degrees you get.

i'm saying this as someone who has a useless trade school degree, i quit and got a job in garbage disposal and i get significantly more paid

>>2791783
And then people will accept a 40k/yr desk job after college and wonder why they're poor LMAO

>>2791790
This dude is so fkn mad

>>2795811
Its a culture of narcissism. It is dying out, what few browns they get, their kids get the narcism too and want to be big important e-celebs. Its a wide and far reaching trend.

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>>2791783
is this good bending form in the youtube thumbnail? that guy seems like he will fuck his shit if he doesn't bend more at the pelvis

>>2791783
HVAC installer for 4 years. Customer i did an install for used to work for the same company. Said he left for the union after they had a light winter (nothing changed in 25yr) and at the end of day after seeing my install gives me an application for Building Control Engineeers.

Should I go into this? Residential HVAC installs is killing me mentally, moronic helpers annoying homeowners penny-pinching bosses.

Only thing holding me back is the "union life". I don't go out with coworkers, I do not drink at bars, at most I attend a yearly christmas party. Will I fit in at the union? Pls help an autistic tradesman out. In my early 30s btw.

ahh fuck dieing so hard, just drinking coffee, watching youtube, shitposting. waiting for the cnc machine to warm up. about to make bank all day. sell machine time not my time. trades are dieing, Find a product that doesn't involve machining.