I learned stick welding at a class, i passed a test so i got a certificate. I dont think that makes me a welder nor do i care. But i want to know why people say MIG is sooo much easier, why even learn stick if MIG welds come out good without 45 years of welding experience?Some welders say it can be very practical in bizarre situations like whay if if you are hanging upside down a bridge and have to bend a rod to reach a hidden section? You cant carry a wire feeder with you, so they say.Others say the shielding gas is worse with MIG than with stick, but that should be a moot point with that special MIG wire that comes filled with flux and can generate its own gas.Bottom line, why is MIG easier? It seems like the same process, just with a continuous rod
>>2797930>if if you are hanging upside down a bridge and have to bend a rod to reach a hidden section?This happens a lot. Even if you aren't a welder, or don't have any business working on a bridge, you can easily find yourself in this situation. The worst part is bending the rod and the flux cracks off and you have to somehow climb back up and get another one before your boss yells at you. And you try to explain that you're not a welder and you aren't supposed to be hanging upside down under the bridge but he just yells more. That's what sucks.
>>2797942you made me laugh irl
>>2797930I learned on oxy acetylene.then bought a Flux-cored arc welder/mig.later I got a super cheap arc welder from amazon.Yes mig is way easier than arc. but oxy acetylene is easier still it's very much like tig welding.I taught my wife how to mig weld in just a couple of hours, where as she could not get the hang of arc.
>>2797930why is it easier? you have more control over voltage, wire feed, and you don't have to keep track of how your stick is being used up.just hold the correct height, hit the button and make a nice puddle.
>>2797952>you have more control over voltage, wire feed,I dont undertand why this is better or easier since theres no talk of voltage or wire feed in stick welding. Apples to Oranges situation
>>2797959>>2797952My point is, with both techniques you need to follow some process, keep the correct angles, speeds, distances, so many variables with some margin of error.Is it just that the margins of error are much wider in MIG? High tolerance for wrong speed, angle, distance, voltage, feed rate, so on, and it still works?How is this possible when its still a metal rod shooting an arc, isnt it basically the same as stick welding, on a physical level?
>>2797959I suggest that you try it.to me mig is like writing cursive in that it takes less effort and is easier to control.arc is like trying to write with a 16 inch pencil while holding the eraser end with 2 hands and the pencil is running out quick.I find oxy acetylene to be relaxing to weld with.>>2797963>How is this possible when its still a metal rod shooting an arc, isnt it basically the same as stick welding, on a physical level?I think you really need to try it and see. it's hard to explain but if I have choice of mig or arc I will go with mig, unless I need to weld something really thick.
>>2797965>unless I need to weld something really thick.Mig doesnt work on thick?
>>2797963With mig you adjust the feed by turning a knob. It might take some experimenting to find the right setting for your situation but once you find what you want you don't have to think about feed rate after that.With stick your arm is the feed rate regulator and you have to learn to feed the rod in on top of doing all the other movements required for welding. This is objectively more work than what you have to do with mig.
>>2797930probably because one you got a fixed rod the farther the rod is from electro the harder it to control,then you gotta not only move with the weld you gotta move into the weld as well. the other is starting the rod is harder.
>>2798147the fuck language is this?
>>2797968the max my mig will do with one pass is 1/4" steel.my arc welder can do 5/16" in one pass.that's the most I will ever need.
what's the actual point of this thread?we can all tell you why we think whatever welding process is easier but until you try them you will never get it.it just seems like you are pretending to be retarded.
>>2798151He is saying you aren't just moving X and Y but also Z because the electrode (stick) is getting shorter as you're working.Mig is pull trigger and move. Super easy. You also don't have to worry about slag inclusions as you're learning.
>>2798125So thats all the advantage? Easier control of the motion? Its like a semi-automated process.If i were to mount a conventional stick welder on a CNC gantry, and just program a path and and approach rate, would it work as good?
>>2798160>it just seems like you are pretending to be retarded.No, its you that are pretending, and you are also suspiciously defensive.You aree just a moron unable to explain anything to anyone. All you can think about is slurs or remembering sensations while eeking guttural sounds that indicate happiness or anger. The idea of explaining anything is alien to you.
>>2797930>want to know why people say MIG is sooo much easierBecause you don't have to worry about the wire speed. The tool does it for you. Also, for some specialized applications (car bodywork, for example), you can get MIG/MAG pistols that set the correct distance between nozzle and steel as well.>why even learn stick if MIG welds come out goodMIG/MAG NEVER comes out good. It's passable at best. If you want good welds, TIG is superior. With stickwelding, the one real advantage is that since the sticks are much thicker than the wires, you can transfer more power. This allows you to heat thicker pieces of material to welding temperature, letting you weld massive steel pieces that would otherwise require acetylen welding or extreme preheating.
>>2798290look dipshit, you ask a question and all your follow up questions are just as dumb and pointless as the first one.go try the different welding methods and find out. also you still haven't said why this thread exists.
mig is easier to get basics of. but it is much easier to pass a flat stick bend then a mig bend test.stick can cheat and burn out imperfections, trapped slag, undercut etc. mig if it's not perfect you're fucked and have to get grinder out.>>2798338>get MIG/MAG pistols I have never heard this term in my life.Ya lets go see you tig some structrual. Almost the only time you'll ever see it is for Aluminum Structural. Mig always come out good AND fast. Hence why it holds up just about everything big made in a shop. Including Aluminum(push/pull) and Stainless(hard or flux).>With stickwelding, the one real advantage is that since the sticks are much thicker than the wires, you can transfer more power.You have no clue what you're talking about. You can't burn jetrods in all posistions. Actual thick welding is always prepped(beveled) and preheated. Preheat not simply for the weld like you imply but the actual piece itself cracking or warping.1/16th Dual Shield holds the world together. Do you honestly think there's shops full of guys stick welding structural all day?If you could always Suitcase in the field you would. But weather, wind, access, gas etc prevents this. Also the fact you get to charge extra for the slower process.you sound like someone who's never held a mig 'pistol' in their life and read a lot of textbooks.
>>2798348>also you still haven't said why this thread exists.Imbecile waste of oxygen, kill yourself boomer piece of shit
>>2797951Does she have thick thighs though?
>>2798458>go learn>NO YOUE STUPAD!!!1!1111!!!!1!
>>2798288>If i were to mount a conventional stick welder on a CNC gantry>would it workProbably, with caveat. There are two major reasons (IMO) stick is harder:1.) Controlling the tip of a 12" long stick is awkward, and this is compounded by the fact that it's constantly getting shorter. The effective distance from a MIG nozzle from your hand is much smaller and remains consistent.2.) The more subtle problem is the fact that stick is a constant-current process. In MIG, the machine tries to hold the circuit at a constant voltage, which causes some favorable feedback. If the arc is too short, there will be less resistance in it, and therefore more current. The higher heat generated by that current will then melt the wire faster, lengthening the arc. If the arc is too long, there will be greater resistance, less current, and the wire won't melt as fast, thus shortening the arc. You have quite a bit of leeway on how far away the cup is from the work because of this effect. Within reason, as long as you're close enough that the shielding gas covers the puddle, you're good.In stick, the machine tries to hold the circuit at a constant current. In this scenario, the current is the same regardless of arc length. This means that a small arc won't produce as much heat as a long one, which tends to melt material slower and make the arc even smaller. A large arc will produce more heat, which will tend to melt material faster and make the arc even longer. In practice, this means that being able to hold a consistent arc is much more critical. When combined with the fact that manipulating the arc in the first place is more difficult (due to the fact that you're twiddling the end of a long, thin stick), this makes stick a much more demanding process on the welder.
>>2798338I welded in a shop that made components for the machine in the video. I’m not sure what you consider structural but we did everything with mig. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DbJl_Astx_w
>>2798472(cont'd.)A machine could, in theory, just follow a pre-programmed path with a stick and produce a consistent, clean weld. However, I suspect minor variations in the electrode (diameter of the rod, consistency of the flux coating) may end up causing some problems due to the aforementioned feedback issue you get with a constant-current power supply. You could correct this by sensing arc voltage and compensating to keep it steady, but nobody in their right mind would actually use stick for a production welding robot when wire feed processes exist. Even if you automated it, changing the electrode out every time it gets low (or, worse, having to restart in the middle of a weld) would add cost in the form of additional machinery, a bit of wasted material, and higher material cost.The GOAT of robotic welding is arguably TIG. Easily automated, continuous wire feed, and very clean results.
>>2798477cnc plasma torch height control does this easily. it will move z independently to maintain a preset arc voltage during the program run
>>2798338Echoing everyone else, this dude is retarded. Dual-shield MIG is fast as hell (important when talking about hundreds or thousands of feet of weld in large projects), gives good penetration, easier than stick, and doesn't require swapping electrodes. It is THE go-to for structural projects, with stick only being a backup option if there's problems with wind or accessibility.>the one real advantage is that since the sticks are much thicker than the wires, you can transfer more powerA cursory search brings up ESAB's table of wire. The fattest one is 1.6mm/0.625in and is recommended to be run at 325A/26.5V. That's already 8.6kW into a damn small arc. Realistically, the vast majority of projects are just going to be done in multiple passes if that isn't enough. While you COULD start getting into those insane 3/4" thick, 1000A stick electrodes, that's a bit niche, at best.
>>2798472probably could just use voltage to determine 'feed' of stick electrode.at least with tig you can watch voltage on machine change with your arc length.>>2798477>The GOAT of robotic welding is arguably TIG. Easily automated, continuous wire feed, and very clean results.Never heard this argument.This would only be the case for thin material with no filler.Else you're argument is for mig. As with tig you've added the variable of a wire feeder. Goal of automation is speed and consistency. Both provided by mig. Hence why most automation is mig.If it's a fussy enough material to require tig a person is doing it.
>>2798458typical spoiled zoomer. go suck a dick on tiktok.why did you make this thread?
>>2798464absolutely.
>>2797930Stick has the second highest learning curve among the welding processes, but once you learn it it's easy as fuck to branch out to every other welding process. Like learning to drive a shitty old 5 speed ranger vs a brand new tesla.It's also the most used process everywhere except for manufacturing because you can literally weld anything with stick, is cheaper and easier to get higher penetration and duty cycle than with wire feed, and you don't need to worry about shielding gas and perfect prep.
>>2797942are there actually cartoon caricature angry bosses out there that yell at people for legitimate issues they face on the job? I would unironically walk off the site if some fat slob started screaming at me over something so trivial.
>>2798520He told me it was just to piss you off.
>>2798520>why did you make this thread?I got bored.
>>2798551>I would unironically walk off the sitewhy don't I have any money?
>>2798591Probably because you never developed your skillset to the point where you can walk off a site at any time. must suck being the bottom rung
>>2798591>why don't I have good employees ?
>>2798551Most construction sites I've been on had boomers like this for every contractor. Then they get together to circle jerk and wonder why no young person with options stays at their McDonald's wage nigger operation.
>>2798594on the contrary because I have skills I would never need to walk off a job site.
>>2797930Each process has advantages which is why industry uses each process. I didn't find stick more difficult and use either as well as OA and TIG. It's an individual thing. Stick works far better outdoors but flux core works well too. Stick uses simpler equipment and of course being able to switch filler rods instantly wins over swapping wire rolls.>>2797951Jewelers use OA for good reason as it welds smaller stock than TIG. You were wise to learn OA as it's the most versatile process (cutting, welding, torch bending, flame straightening, brazing, soldering, shrinking sheet metal, gouging etc etc). Every mechanic should have a torch rig. I collect and overhaul classic US-made torches and regulators, many from peak OA (1930s-50s). Torch preference is like firearm preference, very much a matter of individual ergonomics.Moderns fear fire so I buy used cylinders for less than the cost of the gas inside, use that up and refill or exchange them. No need for shore power is Very Nice.
>>2798768Yeah, I'm real convinced retard. Go fix those tie offs little guy.
>>2798768What's your trade, taking it up the ass from boomers? yeah I bet you do well on site
>>2798870>>2798871
>>2798903Is that the stuff you mainline after your boss turns out your ass in front of your colleagues?
>>2798768You mean you have no dignity or sense of self worth so you'll take shit from anyone. Life of a disposable worker
>>2798906>>2798982not enough try this.
Certified welder here- my old instructor explained that MIG is like using a can of spray paint. smooth, constant, etc and the only thing you worry about is the angle of the torch.with stick you have to pay attention to your position, length of the electrode, arc length, etc. >why even learn stick if its easierAs you said it is almost the same but continuous. I honestly have no idea but I can say that stick is cheap and effective, with the added bonus of some rods being made for deeper penetration.>if you want deeper penetration just use CO2 shielding gasright, but how about that fill and cover pass? Not to once again mention how cost effective it is. >flux core is the exatly the same as stick in performance. cheep, deep pen and filling, plus ease of use.other than mechanics doing frame work and this bridge manufacturing buisness in Ohio I know no-one uses it. stick is popular, cheep, and in my opinion way easier to run than flux flux core is just as dirty with its slag but it cant clean up as well as stick.
>>2799001>t. 10+ years in construction laborIt's sad
>>2799001>>2799048At least he know his own worth, he's probably a tubby fuck with low self esteem. Boomer really did a number on melenials, it's classic abusive behaviour the victim normalizes. wouldn't be surprised if this guy goes home after and screams at his children to blow off steam from his boss blowing off steam. Probably molests them. Fucking creep
>>2799001>>2798903cope with the fact I earn more than you and have never been yelled at? uh ok, thats a hard one but I'll see what I can do
>>2799055I'm retired (way early) and have been for 4 years. here this the best I have for you.
>>2799358I retired at 30, I earn 500k year before taxes doing freelance consulting. Goodluck with that 'flex' though grandpa
>>2799360except I'm telling the truth.
>>2799389>he can't even imagine living my life, it must be fantasy checks out, stay on that bottom rung, mathlet
>>2797959>I dont undertand why this is better or easier since theres no talk of voltage or wire feed in stick weldingThat's because how you control voltage and deposition rate are different between the processes so people don't use the same terminology since the action they need to perform is different. With voltage, in MIG you're typically setting the machine to a specific voltage and the machine tries to maintain that level at all times. There are fancy synergic modes in modern machines that adjust it on the fly of course and they make MIG welding a lot easier. However the bone standard is that if you set it to 20v, it'll do 20v. With stick welding the voltage is something you're actively managing as you're welding by adjusting the arc length. Shorter arc length = lower voltage. Longer arc length = more voltage. There is no dial on the machine where you just set it to 20v and it does 20v so the topic of 'voltage' rarely ever comes up with stick welding, instead people talk about 'arc length' since that's what you can observe and control.
>>2797930I heat up a pointy rock on a stick and use it to melt tin/lead onto copper.
>>2798288>If i were to mount a conventional stick welder on a CNC gantry, and just program a path and and approach rate, would it work as good?It'll struggle to light the arc on many rod types and can fail unexpectedly even on easy rods and wont adjust when doing so. It also wont adjust if the rod burns too fast or too slow for whatever reason, even millimeter difference in arc length matter. If the rod sticks to the puddle the machine will just keep going until the rod is ripped out of the torch handle. Welding rods simply aren't made for high precision automation.
