I'm looking for plans and ideas for a woodstove type heater for a 12x14 room. I've seen random bullshit posted in forums and YouTube. Can't make sense of any of it. I've also come across rocket heaters/stoves that are shown as the next coming of Christ but to me feels like a gimmick. What I'm looking for is tried and tested plans that don't burn your house down don't kill you in your sleep due to CO poisoning. And those could be either traditional stove type or rocket stove type. Also something that would burn efficiently without using a shit ton of wood. I need to burn it mainly for sleeping as I have a traditional mass heater in my living room. Any ideas ? I can weld and have access to basic metalwork tools, nothing fancy.
>>2880467make a heat exchanger and put it on the chimney of a regular wood stove and then put a little fan behind it to blow the heat eveerywhere
rocket mass heater type stoves are designed for a short intense clean and efficient burn but then the heat gets stored in the mass and is gradually released over timethey're best made from ceramic type materials as metal rapidly degrades in the high temps 900c+several design variants have been developed such as the J, K, L types, a later innovation the batch box, are a little more complex and designed especially for batch firing the sidewinder, the dsr, the shorty, etc, etctraditional metal type wood stoves are mostly designed to burn lowish radiating the heat into the surrounding air although some incorporate thermal storagemade of metal sometimes with an insulated burn boxmasonry stoves I don't know much about but they I think are designed to burn lowish while storing heat in mass
>>2880583thanks chatgptjust find a stove on cl. modern people are too lazy to burn wood and hebrew regulations make selling a house with one nearly illegal so they can often be had for free or close to it
>>2880592>chatgptwut?
>>2880592you can make a simple rocket stove out of junk and mud, how well and long it works will depend how much effort you put into it
>>2880467what exactly are you even asking? a wood stove is a wood stove, stop overthinkingget a pellet stove, or pic related
recoheat
>>2880592I live in the third world. No wait it's the 4th world actually. So no craigslist or efficient burning stoves here. Buddy of mine works in a factory that throws away a large amount of junk wood so I have an agreement with them . This is the reason I made a traditional masonry heater for my living room but the bedroom gets cold as fuck below zero temperatures so I'm looking for diy solutions. Electricity based options won't work as we get patchy electricity here in the winter and it's expensive as fuck.
>>2880600I would if i lived in the US. It's actually decently priced converted to my currency. All I have is my hands and 2 brain cells.
>>2880726>I'm looking for diy solutions.You could charge up enough hot rocks then move them to the bedroom somehow?
I recommend a direct vent propane stove.Why?The 750 millivolt thermostatAll the power it needs is made by its own pilot lightNo fancy chimney neededJust one propane line.Regulating heat in a small area is hard
>>2880467I'm not a metal worker, but can't you just make a little metal box with a chimney and door opening, and then use whatever they normally do for the door? For a 12x14, you want to use cast iron for heat absorption (to radiation), and the interior doesn't need to be larger than two pieces of firewood, plus some wiggle room. Say a piece is 18x4 inches, make the box 22 in long, then 6in tall and 6in wide. Put a door on the end and the chimney on the other.If I'm retarded let me know. Wood burning stoves produce buckets of heat even with a piece of firewood or two
>>288085122in long, then 12x12 inches I mean, not 6x6 in
>>2880732I think I worded it wrong. By diy I mean something I can fabricate out of metal. I know metalwork and have the tools for fabrication of such structures. I just need ideas from people who've actually implemented something like this or know about the workings of such heaters/stoves. Could be exact plans or ideas on how to make an efficient solution keeping in view the constraints of diy metalwork.
>>2880829We don't get propane for domestic use here. We have butane but the heating solutions made for butane have an inherent flaw i.e they don't have a venting solution and all exhaust is put out into the space to be heated and it causes drowsiness. It's also doesn't hold heat as much and is pretty much instant. I should mention that my house is made of bricks and masonry to give an idea about the insulation.
>>2880851Nice. This is what I'm talking about. You're somewhat right but I don't think I can weld cast iron well enough for the welds to withstand expansion and contraction. I have never done it so don't have any idea about it. I think mild steel box lines with fire bricks or refractory cement could do the trick but I have no idea how efficient it would burn or would it retain heat or not. And how would I design the burn chamber the exhaust etc etc
>>2880851old worn out d8 or bigger cat track grouser shoes from the stealership scrap bin welded together will make a stove your grandkids wont burn out
>>2880900>I can fabricate out of metalWell metal isn't the best option since the high temps will degrade it.What you could do is make a metal framing to support a structure of insulating blocks? if done right it allows for easy dissasemby inspection and replacement
If you can fab just build a wood stove double walled and fill the gap with sand to hold heat. I did this with a 17 gallon barrel inside of a 55 gallon barrel. The sand is your thermal mass. Want more? Run pipes through the stove or stovepipe with a fan behind it to circulate the air.Even better if you tap the stove into an underfloor heating system circulating hot water throughout the homes floor for heating. No electricity required if you get the physics right. It's what the old timers did in the 1800s
>>2880959Seems like a good idea. Could use firebrick for it. And furnace cement in the inside. Only catch is that it would become almost immoveable.
>>2880965The barrel idea is actually good. Alongwith the the brick built. Any specific plans ? Any recommendations for where I can find plans ? Books, forums, YouTube etc.
>>2880965Pipes ? How ? Could you explain a bit how would I run the pipes ? Do the pipes contain heat transfer fluid as is seen in radiators ?
>>2880467you want the stove body itself to be able to retain and hold some heat without becoming so hot that it melts anything it touches, thats why thick cast iron is so nice for stoves. desu before you go down the path of fully DIY see if you can find an old stove for cheap and just reseal it, use that and build from there. alot of people use double walled pipe because they think its safer as the pipes are insulated and thus cooler but its really just not true. its also less efficient because unless you run a heat exchanger all the heat in the pipes is lost out the flue, whereas single wall is exchanging that heat with air inside all along the way. as long as the flue exit isnt transferring heat to your roof or wall you will be fine. single wall pipe gets less congested with creosote and poses less fire risk in general. double wall you either want to be overburning it regularly which i dont like doing or cleaning it often. double wall + heat exchanger cooling the smoke down and you will have to religiously clean creosote off. efficiency really comes down to how sealed the system is and how much of the heat being burned you can keep inside the house vs. shooting it up the flue. the stove itself just needs to be sealed and fireproof and thats about it.only other thing you absolutely need is outside air intake. if you dont have this, youre just going to be sucking in the hot air from inside that you just created and shooting it out of your house. so you should have a pipe coming into the house pulling fresh air from outside into the base of the stove. what i did instead of busting another hole in the wall, i built an insert for a window that lets me rig up the intake and still easily close the window if i want to stop using the stove and seal it up.
>>2880467>>2881005>cont.so in short:1. outside air intake 2. sealed system3. insulation touching and around anything flammable4. build a surround our of brick, stone or metal around and under stove5. exchange as much heat as you safely can with the inside air without cooling the smoke in the pipe so much that it makes creosote. 6. to better circulate air, blow cold air towards the stove instead of blowing the hot air away. this creates an air movement cycle. if youve got all of that youre pretty much set. stay warm
Like some have mentioned, 55gal drum stoves are pretty common. I think kits are available online for doors and pipe fixtures for not too much money if you thought it was worth it.From my experience, I want to absolutely emphasize doing everything you can to have the stove airtight. Meaning, you should have as much control as possible over the air intake. Make sure the door fits snugly with fiberglass gasket (available cheap in bulk) and devise air intakes that you have fine control over, not just on/off. Of course many stoves don't measure up to this standard but it's incredibly more useful and safe to be able to set it to burn coals all night, or to shut it down. A runaway stove is very scary.In-pipe heat exchangers are tempting to everyone getting into wood heat at some point, but it seems likely they would hinder the draft and encourage creosote buildup at some point, which is probably why they're not standard. Energy "lost" up and out the chimney is a necessary part of running the fire. This can also be seen in the way car and motorbike tuners gain a couple horsepower by wrapping their exhausts, and how steam locomotives designed to recover power too efficiently actually LOST effort because there wasn't even (steam) exhaust to pull draft
If anons are so worried about creosote build up why not just use a rocket for that secondary burn effect? you need to really insulate the seocondary chamber and get the proportions right but they burn super cleanHave any of you built one?I know two fairly good forums, they're loaded up with information about the engineering side of it all and plenty of free plans for working systems.https://donkey32.proboards.comhttps://permies.com/f/260/rocket-mass-heaters
>>2880467If you want to DIY it and have it be remotely efficient, you'll want to go with a rocket mass heater or masonry stove.Traditional cast iron / steel woodstoves certainly work, but they are very inefficient unless they are the modern reburning "EPA" design, which is not something that is particularly easy to DIY fabricate. That type also requires totally dried and seasoned firewood.Rocket mass heaters burn the wood very fast and hot, leading to a very clean and efficient burn. The key is to build them with enough mass around the long + winding exhaust so that the heat is captured and not just sent out the chimney. These are much easier to DIY since you basically just need some steel ducting and a bunch of clay/dirt/bricks/etc.
>>2881229>The key is to build them with enough mass around the long + winding exhaustNah, that's the old method from like a decade ago.The guys really building them figured out that all you actually need is to contain the exhaust gasses for long enough in a chamber of a specific internal surface area that corresponds to the size of the heater output.the method they use now is like a sort of settling tank where the hot air rises to the top and the cold air sinks to the bottom and then goes out the exhaust pipe at the bottom as long as the system is sealed properly without leaksthis chamber can take the form of a bench or a bell or however you want to use it, just as long as you calculate the internal surface area so that it doesn't exceed the capacity of your fire.they install bypass valves in some models to facilitate quick startups. in all it's just a lot easier than running a load of chimney pipe and burying it in gravel or cob but obviously the solution you choose will reflect how you wish to actually use itSome remarkably smart guys have really sought to make the design of these rocket mass heaters as easy to build maintain and run as reliable as possible. I saw some of the discussions comparing the physics of the thing to a pulsejet engine, it's like they sing in pressure waves.cost wise it's actually pretty cheap a couple of hundred dollars for the insulation of the firebox, core and other crucial high temp locations and the rest can be made from mud and brick or whatever you have available.
>>2881250This is what I was looking for. Sound design principles. Like engineering textbooks. If you have the design principles down you can customize the build according to your own requirement. Where can I learn the design principles ? Any books, forums ?
>>2881037These two seem like a good start. I'll have a deeper look at these. It seems like design of rocket stoves/heaters is an esoteric science that hasn't yet been condensed into a single source. Let me see what I can figure out. Thanks.
>>2881417There are several published books.You can probably find them listed on there.
>>2881413NTA these two are the only ones I could find for free.https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=87C1245962C356445FA67769D48D9416https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=42E96A1EF4EF09159340C705821B3997
What's the best way to manage for wood fuel?is a coppice system with something like willow that produces a good yield and poles that are both quickly dryable and cuttable with a good set of loppers or pruning saw or should one manage for logs instead with its inherent complication of needing chainsaw gear and time consuming splitting
what's the advantage of a radiant type over thermal mass type?
>>2880959>>2880900>>2880732what if you 'casted' the parts with cement/crete and then assembled in it inside >inb4 cement explodes
>>2882887>>2885423Some geopolymers are well suited to high temperatures and even gain strength from it. It has similar castability properties as concrete while being a refractory material.It can be strong enough to use black locust, a fast growing and robust tree that takes well to coppicing. It is not often used for this because it is a little too good at being firewood, burning hotter than you'd want in most cases. With a geopolymer stove reinforced with basalt you would be set. The only problem is nobody uses or knows about basalt rebar or geopolymer beyond theoretical napkin mathing, so you would kind of be a pioneer. Real shame too since it should be cheaper and stronger than Portland cement if using local materials for the geopolymer.
>>2885433okay where the fuck do you get it
>>2881009doesn't the heat burn those wall logs
>>2880467You'll have to buy something to make sure you don't unsubscribe from life due to fumesThere's a micro wood stove I saw in a yt video awhile back but I can't remember what it's called
>>2880467Just order something from AliExpress Almost everything sold on Amazon is on AliExpress
>>2885464Where do you get string? I don't know, man. There's like a million different kinds that all could be called a geopolymer. There's a $100 dollar book some Frenchman is selling that purports to be an introduction to, textbook on, and reference book for all the major geopolymers. I'm not smart enough to figure it out, and lots of searching online has made it clear there is very little information available on the subject outside of university labs and corporations sekret formula vaults. Anyone who figures it out says it's the best thing since sliced bread and that is the reason they won't share it with anyone. I guess I can share one of the better links acquired from my different searches on this subject. https://permies.com/t/29551/Geopolymers
>>2880467I like the idea of a stove, seems super cozy, I'd just be scared of dying in my sleep via carbon monoxide poisoning. I wouldn't light one without a CO detector right next to it.
>>2880728Who is lending you the brain cells?
Always funny that as soon as we hit the freezing cold part of winter with much of the country under winter storm threat that someone asks for diy heating options.
>>2886333In fairness OP is a thirdie not a yankoid
can you combine heating and cooking?
Do not build a woodstove. You're going to burn your house down. Just buy one.
>>2880467https://archive.org/details/fm-5-15-field-fortifications-1959/page/147/mode/2upArmy manual for building small stoves (section 92)
>>2888479Oh that's pretty cool.I guess they could balance a pot on top of the lid to boil water in some of them
What's the benefit of kiln dried wood, won't it just normalise to the local humidity anyway?
>>2889662Kiln dried firewood? Never heard of that. I've heard of it for construction lumber. Its basically faster for that. Less time between milling and sale. That's an advantage for the seller and not really anyone else really.
>>2880467>buy fire bricks>buy fire cement>make furnace like square>drill brackets for furnace like door>build spout for furnace like tube>make spout go outside for furnace like exhaust:D BURNACE :DD
>>2880467OP, I sure hope you don't have that exact model. I do and it is a hopeless construction and far harder to get going than other woodstoves I have used. Once you get it going it is OK but not much more than that.You might want a more modern construction with secondary combustion using pre-heated air. You can also combine this with a tile oven and a flue labyrinth (Finnish/German/Russian/Swedish designs exist)>>2880572You might want to slot that in only after the woodstove is hot to keep a good draft. Once it is hot, the draft should be able to handle a heat exchanger. You can also use a simpler heat exhanger using concentric tubes where the inner is the hot flue going up and the outer is fresh air going down, effectively a cross flow heat exchanger.
>>2880851>I'm not a metal worker, but can't you just make a little metal box with a chimney and door opening, and then use whatever they normally do for the door?You can do that but it will be really inefficient.To make the combustion efficient, you want to keep the temperature in the firebox as high as possible, so you want some insulation. And extra set cast iron inset plates will be sufficient, that is what my woodstove has. And then you want to get as much heat as possible out of the flue gas. If you preheat the air going into the fire box it will improve efficiency even further.
>>2880467Welding and related forums/subreddits are very good sources because welders enjoy fabbing stoves.
>>2892444wasted numerals giving mouthservice to pl*bbit
