/balding/ and /finasteride/ general - hair is love, hair is life!Sticky: http://tuxbell.com/index.php/BaldingReminder that if you can clearly see down to your scalp when your hair is wet, your hair is thinning, lots of small new hairs sprouting at the hairline or crown is a sign of hair recession.Holy trinity:Tabs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FinasterideLotion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MinoxidilShampoo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KetoconazoleFinasteride/Dutasteride are 5-alpha reductase inhibitors that prevent free T from being converted to DHT, a byproduct of testosterone that serves no purpose after puberty but to choke out your hair follicles and make them thin out and die in a few short years, a condition known as androgenic alopecia.5ar inhibitors prevent your hair from getting any worse, mild regrowth is expected, rapid onset diffuse thinners see a significant recovery on fin alone. Can be taken orally or topically.5ARIs are not dosage dependent, taking as little as as 0.2mg daily fin can reduce serum DHT by 68%, while 5mg reduces by 72%.0.5mg daily dut reduces serum DHT by 95%, but is considered a second line treatment, and can be more expensive and harder to get prescribed. Start with fin.Fin has been used to treat benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) for 30+ years, it's very well studied and is tolerated well in almost all men, however, there's a 1-2% risk of erectile issues in controlled studies.These can be avoided by reducing dosage, spacing out dosage, or stopping the drug. Fin takes days to fully bio-accumulate, the half life of fin is about 8 hours, adverse effects occuring within minutes of starting fin or persisting long after stopping fin are not real and have no basis in reality. Please note that dut has a much higher half-life of 5 weeks, if you're prone to fin sides, dut may cause them for far longer.Refer to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481923/ before responding to PFS trolls.
Minoxidil (liquid and tabs) is a vasodialator that opens potassium channels and widens blood vessels bringing nutrients to your hair follicles, stimulating them into thickening, accelerating growth and elongating the growth phase. Min is taken with fin to restore your hair to it's original hairline, thickness and vigor when hair loss is caught early enough, (pre-NW2). Can be taken orally or topically.Topical min does not work in 1/3 of men because they lack the required enzymes in their scalp, all men have this enzyme in their liver so the oral route is a good fallback.The FDA formulation for 5% liquid minoxidil is food safe (vape juice, ethanol and water) and can be safely taken orally if oral min tabs are expensive or rarely prescribed where you live. As a general rule, ~4 drops (0.1ml) = 5mg minoxidil.There's a 1-2% risk of fluid retention with higher oral dosages, start with the lowest dosage possible and work your way up when you're sure it's well tolerated.Ketoconazole is an anti-androgen and antifungal that inhibits DHT on the scalp and used to treat fungal infections of the scalp that may be making your hair loss worse such as seborrheic dermatitis, a condition where you exhibit severe greasy, flaky large dandruff flakes with dried yellow crystals (blood plasma) embedded in the scalp. Some people may only have traction alopecia (hair loss from scratching or friction), but it will not cure androgenic alopecia on it's own. Can only be taken topically.Do not use spirolactone. Spirolactone is a diuretic which, in large doses, inhibits testosterone and, by extension, DHT.It is regularly prescribed as an anti-androgen for male to female HRT, and thus, comes with an astronomically higher risk of sexual side effects in men including ED, gynecomastia, and can cause potassium toxicity.Previous thread: >>18666568
Greeting and salutations brothers. May we all have thick and healthy hair.
Is 2.5mg Dutasteride a meme? I’ve seen the study from 2006 and although 2.5 has the initial edge vs 0.5mg at the 12 week mark, it seems to even out at 24 weeks.
>>18680428Definitely overkill with a high risk of sides
>>18680428idk but apparently blocks more scalp dht
>>18680447Could achieve the same by just stacking topical fin
Thoughts on PEMF hats?Seen people gain growth on it.
>>18680465It might help a little bit but I would say snake oil more or less. You're gonna go bald no matter what without a DHT blocker.
About 5 months into finasteride, I went through a massive shed in my hairline and the top of the scalp around 3 months in that seems to have stopped but now I'm experiencing an even bigger shed on the back of my head, what would typically be the donor area for the transplant. I thought hair from that area was DHT resistant and wouldn't be affected by treatment? Anyone else had an experience like this? Anyways, my phone camera is broken so I can't take progress pictures but compared to pic related, I'm happy to announce my crown area actually started covering up nicely, but post shed my hairline and the widow's peak in particular look thinner than ever so I'm just waiting for the new layer of hairs to come in. Anyone got an idea how long that should take?
>>18680477The donor area isn't immune, just typically. Personally I think there should be up to a Norwood ~7. A couple weeks post shed you should see increased hair count but it will take a couple months for it to be more apparent.
>>18680477As the other anon shows, the true “donor” area is much smaller than you think. I’m a diffuse thinner and you can see how my density is compromised in every area on my scalp besides that band of hair a NW7 man has.
Whats your guy's experience with brainfog and does it clear up?Took my first 0.5mg dut capusle yesterday and got pretty immediate brain fog. Feels like my inner monologue is obfuscated and I can't think as clearly. I'd describe it as low-mid level brainfog. Made me feel somewhat ''heady'' as well and zoomed in. Nothing too extreme but enough to be moderately noticeable and a bit upsetting.It's not a placebo/nocebo as I had no idea before taking it that these effects could come about. Has anybody had any experience with this?Happy to hear about experiences on fin as well with brainfog.
>>18680540it is a placebo retard
>>18680540>Took my first 0.5mg dut capusle yesterday and got pretty immediate brain fogDut does not go into your brain + you need a week to build up enough dut for it to even be effective at blocking 5ar, you psyopped yourself into getting side effects.
>>18680541>>18680542its a known side effect and it does enter the brain. maybe it is placebo for him tho
>>18680540I'm sure you had at least some idea about side effects existing, just not the specifics. It's probably a product of the initial anxiety of starting a new medication and you started ruminating on that mild reaction to being nervous whether you were aware or not. The problem is that you've now gone all OCD and have convinced yourself of a negative reaction loop. It's tough to overcome you just need to stop thinking about it and move on with your life, no more worries about hair.
>>18680541>>18680542I wasn't aware of it as an effect before I took the pill and had been feeling it for a while before finding that out, i don't see how it could of been a placeboOne pill does effect your chemistry still, and can cause the neurosteroid deffiencies that lead to brainfog.
>>18680563the fact that you’re one day in mentioning neurosterioids and got started on dut instead of fin like 99% of people makes what you’re saying extremely sus
>>18680563>>18680549One pill is not enough to cause any side effects, you guys have no idea what you're talking about. It can take up to a month for you to build up enough dut in your system for it to actually start blocking 5ar, it's why you still need to take finasteride every other day for a while if you switch to dut otherwise your DHT spikes after a week and you go through a shed.
>>18680564I did a tonne of research (well reddit and grok expert mode LMAO) and found out that dutasteride provides better protection against balding and more regrowth to a substantial degree than finasteride, with the same percentile of side effects.I've found out about the neurosteroids after researching the brain fog I felt. I feel the brain fog is too substantial to be imagined, or placebo. My plan is to try the dut again once the brain fog subsides, and if it doesn't work that time lose more weight before going on it again (being fat can cause defiencies in allopregnanolone)Other than that if they don't work out i'll try fin. But this brainfog is genuinely quite substantial.
it's gonna be wild how I'll have been bald almost my entire life and then far into the future I'll be an 80 year old with a full head of hair kek
>>18680534damn, i have the same thing as you.is this really hair loss?i only have this spot when the hair is around a couple cm's long.long hair and and really short hair, it looks normal
>>18681045>is this really hair loss?yesand its the worst kind bc you risk losing your donor area and not being able to get a transplant. could be caused by stress, inflammation, etc.
>>18681045I used an extreme scenario (short hair + flash + dark room) but yes, that’s diffuse thinning AKA hair loss. You can see my crown in daylight here, it’s see-through but the thinning isn’t as apparent. And with medium to long hair styles my crown looks normal. My stack was fin daily and now I’m dut daily; I don’t do topicals. It has gotten a little better on dut but I likely need 5+ years of treatment to get my scalp hair looking anything like the DHT-resistant horseshoe hair under harsh lighting.
I've been on 0.25mg/day fin for over a week and so far no sides. Will progress to 0.5mg/day and probably hold that dose as long as I can tolerate it. I just need stability until GT20029 comes out.
>>18681379I told myself that I’d “wait” while cruising on fin too, but here I am, on Dutasteride 0.5mg and 2.5mg oral Minoxidil daily and I had a nuclear stack with topicals before. The only way you’ll be satisfied with low-dose Finasteride is if that is enough to get back your pre-recession hairline, to be honest, since it seems that is the goal you’ve ostensibly set in your mind with a future treatment. What drives you crazy is waiting to see if these drugs are doing anything, since it takes months for visible results (and topical minoxidil needs to be used with a retinoid or else you might end up being a non-responder). We only have to go through this because our past selves were too foolish to not start popping Finasteride the second our hairs started miniaturizing and enjoy our NW1 forever.
>>18681389I am only NW2 with diffuse thinning but it started almost three years ago and has progressed very slowly. Getting my 25 year old hair back would be great, but failing that i'll accept stability. I'm not desperate to see gains but i'm hopeful for future treatments. Hopefully my hairs haven't permanently miniaturised.
>crushing up finasteride pills and mixing into minoxidil and applying to the scalpHas anyone tried this? AI is telling me that the finasteride should dissolve and it should work. I figure this is much safer than taking the pill systemically and I could get by using .1 mg per day so its going to save money as well. Thoughts?
>>18681429Yeah but you're going to be applying a thick off-white paste to your scalp by the time you break enough pills down. I remember calculating yearly scripts wouldn't offer enough fin needed to create a proper strength topical.
>>18681417I was also NW2 before treatment and am like 1.5 now. Hair greed is a real thing, and in truth your face and its proportions (facial thirds) will never look right with anything that wasn’t your original head of hair. Sad but true.
perfect hairline is overrated unless you're like 20just grow that shit out it hardly matters man nw2 is fully serviceable this is why I'm gonna opt for minimal hairline touch up and focus on density up top
>>18681721Growing it out (to cover your NW2 hairline) or getting a cope fringe/curtains isn’t viable for all of us, most men look best with short or medium length hair. This guy would look a lot better with the original width of his forehead instead of the current receded one. It looks like his forehead is wider than his cheekbones/jaw even though his original hairline probably wasn’t. But the grass is always greener, NW4+ dudes wish they had that hairline.
>>18681721It matters if you’re not married.
>>18680534>>18681045>>18681062>>18681071I have this. This pic is from 5 months ago. Not sure if you guys have gone to a doctor or a dermatologist to get yourselves checked out or not, but in my case, I have hypothyroidism, which causes diffuse thinning across the entire scalp, that includes the back, the sides, and the top, so it's uniformly sparse rather than the typical pattern you see in AGA. I've also lost a ton of body hair and some eyebrow hair, I can't even walk without my thighs and that middle section between your balls and ass rubbing against each other and causing discomfort. Anyways, along with the hair loss, also came some form of Seborrheic Dermatitis. My scalp itches like fucking crazy, I have red pimples on my scalp and nizoral and dermarest didn't help, in fact, nizoral made it burn so I stopped using it, so at this point I think I'm going to try and see if something like aloe vera might help to hydrate my scalp since hypothyroidism causes skin problems. Anyways when my hair loss first started back in 2023, it came with this white gunk on my crown that I could scrape off with my nails and it smelled awful, somehow it went away on it's own, but the hair loss continued. To finish this off, you guys should go see a doctor to rule anything out.
And here's the side, also thinning.
And finally, here's a good close up of that cowlick section underneath the bathroom light, recently got a haircut but somehow it didn't turn out this bad, maybe because I asked for a 4 rather then a 3 on the sides, regardless, get yourselves checked out. I'm currently in the process of switching medications since levothyroxine was causing some really bad side effects.
>>18681739>>18681741>>18681743I have no experience with your scenario, but have you tried other medicated shampoos besides niz (ketoconazole)? there’s like zinc pyrithione, selenium sulfide, piroctone olamine, climbazole, etc? and to be honest from the front it looks like your hairline is receding anyways, i’d say it’s worth trying fin either topical or oral since at least then you can rule out AGA and focus on your other causes of hair loss
>>18681746No, but I've heard of them so I will be checking those out. And no, my hairline hasn't receded, it's always been like that since I was a kid to a teen and to now, an adult, already made the comparisons using older pictures and already had a dermatologist look at my scalp a year ago, AGA has been ruled out.
>>18681748I’m going from the side view so that could be the case, idk if you care enough to show a hairline comparison. But the only way to beat AGA is to beat to the punch, which is to start treatment before you visibly lose ground
>>18681749As I said, I already visited a dermatologist, and he told me the hair loss is being caused by the hypothyroidism, not AGA. My doctor also found out I was deficient in vitamin D3, calcium, and magnesium which is also contributing to the issue. I'm planning on switching from levothyroxine to either tirosint or levoxyl since those are the better options for thyroid issues, and of course the supplements, as far as minoxidil is concerned, I might use it to speed up the regrowth once my TSH levels and everything else is in check. Since my hair loss isn't being caused by AGA I don't see any point in using finasteride or dutasteride.
>>18681751I’m just saying, you’re already going through hair loss, it happening again later due to AGA would be devastating, no? I guess you’d be vigilant enough to start treatment for AGA whenever that happens, so I get it. In any case, hope you find a treatment that works soon anon
>>18681752Nah I'm good, I don't think AGA should be a problem considering my dad and both grandfathers have hair, one thing my family from both sides does have though is thyroid disorders. Thanks though.
ive always had a big ass forehead but im 27 and these pictures worry me. also i don't have good photos to compare so i don't even know how bad it actually is
i also haven't ever had my thyroid hormone levels checked or anything i dont have a young healthier reference if my levels are fucked
>>18681787>>18681788>>18681791>>18681792Dude…do you have to ask? You’re Norwood 2/2A and progressing…
What do we think of Bimatoprost for hairloss?
>crown gets a bit itchy sometimes
in general which style of electric trimmer is best for the head? I've heard that foil shavers don't have enough power?
>>18681923if you're truly at /it's over/ status it's time to just wigmaxxstop raping your scalp with razors my man
>>18681925no, I'm too lazy to wet shave, I'm sue as hell not willing to do all that once a week while also finding a new job in a different town.
I was at the pub last weekend. Trying to chat up a blonde. We met earlier in the night and had joked a couple times. Seemed alright. And my confidence was up because an older woman, fifties easy, had tapped me on the shoulder and told me I was the best looking man here. So, I approach the blonde. Continue our previous banter. Then she says to me 'you have the same hair as my baby'. Laughing. She pulls out her phone, shows me photos. And her baby has a full on horseshoe. with just a few thin wisps on top. I pretended to be really hurt by what she said. As a joke. But, I wasn't actually pretending very hard either. Because, I am receding. But, I didn't think badly. Didn't think super noticeably. Just a maturing hairline. And, I've always had a widow's peak, so maybe it looks like full blown norwooding to an outside observer. But, I don't even have a bald spot. She hit my insecurity like a sniper. First time I remember someone hitting me with hair-loss like that. Unprompted. Other than times me and other men have been discussing the topic and told me I might be receding. But, that was in the context of mutual respect and honesty within a safe-space. Not bullying. I don't know. My hair is clippered #1. So maybe that's all she meant, I have a round head with short hair. Look like a baby. Or she was negging me. And it actually was a little jab. Or, she was a fair bit shorter so maybe had a bad angle looking up at me and I did look very bald from her perspective. Or, she was subtlety trying to mention she had a baby. Get me to stop trying. These possibilities were rollin through my mind drunken. All seemed likely. Either way. Wind out of my sails. Conversation quickly died. Wake up call to stop telling myself my hair is OK?
>>18681925>just spend hours every week meticulously tricking people into thinking you have hairTruly dishonorable.
is it even worth trying 0.625mg oral minoxidil? i got side effects from 1.25mg that wouldnt go away after over a month, but eventually went away from discontinuation months later. on day 1 it caused eye pain/discomfort, i guess from blood pressure changes. i havent tried 0.625 so idk if i would get side effects again. ive been on fin for 6 months and now instead im on dut 3 for months. it seems like miniaturized hairs are growing longer than usual fair (although they havent fallen out yet); before they just stopped growing, no thickening yet though. not going to do topical minoxidil.
>>18682029It's not possible to have sides for over a month with low dose oral minoxidil. The drug is incredibly short acting and is does not accumulate in cellular tissue. Your blood pressure would return to normal after about 2 hours since last dose on 1.25mg, a day max with 5mg+.
>>18682049i was taking it daily for over a month and the side effect wasnt going away until much later when i quit the drug. blood pressure and heart rate changes normalized very quickly after quitting the drug though. im 100% the eye pain was induced from the drug though because it happened as soon as i took it.
>>18682056So your sides persisted after quitting or not? Increased blood pressure and heart rate are not inherently dangerous as long as you are still within a safe range and your health is not being impacted. That's just the trade-off and if it's not worth it to you then don't take it.
>>18682058yes, eye pain persisted for months after quitting
>>18682062You shouldn't take it then. More than likely psychosomatic than some sort of rare lasting damage. 0.625mg isn't ineffective but I wouldn't take it if 1.25mg isn't tolerated. Better off with what you feel safe taking long term.
if you're this far gone and this is the best density you can do for an HT, would it still be worth it to you?would there be ways besides fibers, to mask that crown density like with sea salt spray/mousse or something? idk
>>18682105yeah i'd be perfectly happy with that. but am also old enough where the after pic would be much more accepted.
>>18682111yeah this level of hair for a 50yo man would be totally acceptableprobably less so for a guy in his 20s
>>18682105It's fine, under normal lighting I doubt the average person would consider this anything but a full head of hair.
>>18682192That hairline is a problem though, looks artificial and pluggy. The bane of every transplantee for the most part
>>18682193looks better than no hairline tho
>>18682194Yeah but I would rather have a denser receded hairline than taking it all the way to a squared off, but whispy one.
>>18680385Hello placebo retards I have taken dutasteride 40mg per day loading dose and it just works 5mg/day. Stacked with oral liquid minoxidil my hair is thick af.
>>18682203Being a PFS believer must be hell. Anyways, as you probably know the oral min basically kicks shit into overdrive. And it makes lashes and brows thicker. Add some tint to that and you'll add to your looks. Shit is pretty great. I might add some of that stemoxydine to my stack as well just to see what happens
What's the point of lower dosages if it builds up and evens out eventually? It just changes the time horizon, nothing else.
subliminals work
can we post baldspo here for those already too gone who need to just start dressing for a skinhead style and getting fit?
>>18682249get the head tattoosit's time
>>18682249>>18682255Tough, keep em coming.
>>18682203Good for you, if I could get 3.0mg+ dutasteride compounded for sane prices I’d do that daily. DHT is a total meme. Also, I’m pretty sure a “loading dose” is bro-science since the efficacy of the drug depends not on its half-life or blood/tissue levels but rather the half-life of the 5AR enzyme itself.
>>18681925The problem is that you can't be around anyone who has seen you before the wig. You would have to move to a different country or state. And then you have to do it everyday. You can't go outside without the wig even once. And then if you get a gf she will find out and dump your bald ass. This shit just ain't feasible. Wear a hat or take the tranny drugs.
Ive accepted my baldness since I was 20. Shave it clean every week since I can grow a decent beard or rock a mustache but sometimes I miss customizing my hair for a look. My hair looks like >>18682105 if I let it grow but I don't since bald fits me. Wonder how other baldies around here feel about so many men going for transplants/drugs, if there's pressure on them do it, etc.>>18682249Yes please but my baldspo is fictional. He's my fit inspo as well, I shall attain this body no matter what
I started using topical minox 2weeks ago and it’s giving a persistent headache on the application area. Will it subside or no? Im already using it only at night and only like half of the recommended dose so I cant really cut back on that…
>>18682766The alcohol might be irritating your scalp. Try foam or oral min if it doesn't go away
>>18680540Ignore the others, I had this to a T and the only side I was aware of was ED. It's not a nocebo, at least not for everyone. Try low, lower, and lowest doses, try topical, but ultimately being a brain dead retard with no working memory isn't a life worth living. Hail Mary a hair transplant and then when that fails just chrome dome it with the inner peace that you did everything you could.
I had extreme brain fog but that went away, and then came the ED, absent libido, and watery semen. I checked my levels and everything was good with high T. Sucks.
>>18682794Shit just happens when you get older. My 20s vs early 30s are a night and day difference with libido. A big part of it is mindset too.
>>18682806My libido was pretty high a couple months ago. Nothing to do with mindset, I'm not a woman.
any place I can reliably buy cheap fin?
>>18682894It’s dirt cheap for generics at any pharmacy, provided you have a prescription ofc. Alldaychemist seems legit, but you never know with those kind of sites
I've noticed the sides of the front of my hair line is starting to thin out pretty bad over the past year or so, should I start taking dut or fin? not sure if dut would be too overkill
>>18682770The foam version of rogaine has even more ethanol than the liquid.
>>18682934Yeah I fucked up its actually the propylene glycol that can have a reaction
>>18682812Yeah it kind of felt like a lightswitch for me too, predating using fin btw. How old are you? Nearing/past 30? A lot of people cite 30 as a changing point.
>>18682922Always start on fin and for most people it will be enough to halt balding indefinitely and regrow any recent loss. If you are not satisfied after a year of fin you can look into minoxidil and finally after that consider upgrading to dut.
Is it worth grabbing one of these for $75? Part of me feels like this red light fad is all snake oil but I don’t know. People also say some brands are better than others, would this be better than nothing?I’m on vitamins, supplements, rollers and minoxidil. Is it finally time to take the finasteride pill?
>>18683008You should have started fin yesterday. These tools and supplements only exist as a too good to be true alternative to the scientifically proven meds, they target the timid and uninformed and capitalize on fear. Seriously you are going to do all of these things on top of wearing a fucking helmet blasting lasers into your scalp than just take fin? It's insanity, really.
>>18682894Depends on your country there is no one answer for everybody.
Has anyone gotten wierd tingling or sometimes itchy nipples / breast area? it happens every so often, and i get hives on my chest. are these early symptoms of gyno? how should should i keep taking it?
>>18683040on fin, forgot to mention
>>18683040Yeah it's a common side effect at the start, it lasted maybe a month for me and subsided completely after a year or so. Never turned into any gyno and it's been 3+ years. The hives are not from finasteride unless you are having an allergic reaction to it which is unlikely as your only symptom.
>>18683043shit u got balls. i stopped for 2 days now cuz i heard gyno could form as early as a month, but if it's a common side effect i might just continue. that's really the only side effect i've gotten, no ed or issues with libido. thanks for the info
>>18683047Yeah it's scary, almost quit many times, glad I didn't. Just got to push through it all until you stop caring.
>>18683011Alright I’ll skip the tech options. Im a dumb poor fag with little to no experience with insurance, doctors or prescriptions. Is it worth taking saw palmetto, pumpkin seed oil, nettle extract etc to achieve the same effect as finasteride naturally?
>>18683067No, not even close. Get fin at all costs. If you live in a developed country you can google for a telehealth service which will write you a prescription. If you are in the US you have many options to choose from, I would recommend amazon healthhttps://health.amazon.com/onemedical/Male-hair-loss-treatment/dp/B0BVC7BBN2$30 for the initial consultation and then $6 a month for your supply of fin. If you are not in the US shop around and find a comparable service, good luck.
>>18683070dr.b will also give you a fin AND dut prescription you can give to any pharmacy chain for 15bux with minimal questions asked, surprised by how easy it was to get dut
What are your thoughts on the minoxidil finasteride combo topical sprays?
>>18683094Messy, less effective and more expensive overall compared to the oral variants. If you truly can't tolerate the meds orally it's a good backup, otherwise no.
how bad is the "shedding phase" of fin/dut?
>>18683040In clinical trials, gyno/nipple sensitivity is literally the rarest side effect, much more rare than even ED. If you weren’t on fin you probably would not have thought anything of it. It’s like thinking you need a root canal because of fin or that you look older after 10 years of taking fin.
>>18683114Depends on the person. I didn’t notice any shedding making my hairline look cosmetically worse when starting, but I had slow burn recession for 5 years that only progressed to NW2 before I stepped in with fin (now dut). But I saw a lot of baby hairs sprout near my hairline that would grow for a couple inches and then shed, until some of them became strong enough to be real terminal anagen hairs. Some hairs also stayed in place but sprouted thicker from the root if that makes sense, a few even had tips that were depigmented (severe miniaturization). So, don’t fear shedding, when you’re on treatment it’s always a good thing,
>>18683102Is that also the case for topical minoxidil vs oral? Swear I read about some recent study that showed there was no big difference
How did Hunter make balding cool?
>>18683129DHT growing chewbacca tier hair everywhere but the top of your head is some kind of sick joke that tells me God isn’t real.
>>18683128Yes. Enzyme activity on the scalp is the biggest bottleneck for optimal minoxidil results. Most people are lacking in SULT1A1 activity which leads to a poor response. You also have to contend with proper application, longer hair amplifies this. Under the best possible conditions it may be comparable to oral but you would need to apply it to your entire scalp to even be in the same league as it.
>>18683116yeah which sucks even more, but maybe it means that my breasts are more sensitive to estrogen.. do u agree with the other anon and suggest i continue to take it?
>>18683157The only alternative is dutasteride which is technically more “potent” but they are different drugs and some people who have issues with fin do great on dut. But if the problem is aromatization of test into estrogen then you likely will have the same problem, since the extra testosterone from fin/dut will aromatize. How long have you been on fin? Gyno doesn’t take more than a few months to form, if you’ve been taking it for months without gyno then you should stick to it. There’s nothing else that works for male pattern hairloss.
>>18683167I took it once for like 2 weeks and felt that sensitivity and itchiness in the breast so I took a 3-4 week break then hopped on recently again for like 10 days. After the 11th day, i got the same symptoms, which makes me believe either my breasts are very sensitive to the rise in estrogen or it's my hormones try to settle and adjust to the new changes. did you face something similar to that? i think ur right about the aromtization, like my breasts just can't take it and will grow into full blown titties
>>18681923All electric trimmers leave stubble. Just use a normal razor under the shower. After getting the hang of it you won't even need shaving cream.
>>18683172I’ve had no problem with nipple sensitivity or gyno yet, I used fin for years and now dut for years. But I never had gyno growing up. I understand your apprehension since gyno can’t be reversed once it happens, but that’s also true of severe hairloss. If I were you I would save my hair and bite the bullet to get the surgery that removes gyno. It’s a lot cheaper than a good hair transplant (and you still need to take meds anyway). My only symptoms on these drugs ever were a lowering of libido that stabilized over time. Or try dut instead and see if you feel any difference. And aren’t there drugs/topicals bodybuilders use to avoid gyno when taking steroids? Look into those too.
>>18683176yeah i was looking into things like serms and AI's but apparently they also have side effects, one of which being fucking hairloss, and if i need to stay on another drug to combat the high estrogen in my bitch tits, then i'd rather get that surgery. do u know if gyno can still grow after the operation? i heard recurrence is pretty low but not 100%
>>18683178I think there’s the type of surgery that removes fat around the tissue which can lead to gyno again, but if they remove all the glandular tissue then it can’t come back.
>>18683172Brother many thousands of people experience a bit of sensitivity when starting fin, you can search any hairloss forum and find the same thing being reported, they didn't get gyno either. The sensitivity you would experience for gyno is not a little sensation, it's full blown pain when touching the area and a noticeable amount of tissue swelling. When you see a symptom being reported for gyno or any other condition in a medical report it is ALWAYS to the extreme unless explicitly stated otherwise. You are overreacting over what amounts to nothing.
>>18683181ur probably right and i'm even might be giving myself a nocebo thinking about my nips so much, wow that sounds gay. you know i heard 20% of all gyno cases come from some kind of medication which gets me worried, but if other people are reporting the same thing then i guess i'm fine. i'll just take it for 1 month consistently and feel my tits for lumps every week
>>18683186Be gentle and do so sparingly or you can irritate the tissue and add another layer of worry.
>>18680385Thoughts on using a topical with fin/min/tret all combined in one?
>>18683191not a bad idea, but it's probably more expensive than just getting each one separately
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/topical-bicalutamide-the-ultimate-guide.138249/I'm making this but using tablets. Does anyone know where I can find a source for pure bicalutamide powder from China?
Is it better to be a manlet with hair or 6'2 and bald?
>>18683735both are bad. i’m here so obviously i’m going to say being a manlet with hair is better, and i’m 6 feet tall. i’d rather look like tom cruise than vin diesel or the rock any day. so even though you can be attractive bald, i still pick the manlet with hair.
>>18683735Probably plenty of people who would trade places it all depends. I would rather keep my height but if I was uglier it would be a tougher call.
>>18683735i'd rather be 6'2 and bald
>>18680535For all the drugs he's running the physique really looks like shit
>>18683735The manlet can get a leg extension, gaining ~20cm in height. The baldcel can take meds and get a hair transplant. Honestly with so many hair loss cures in the works right now I would rather be 6'2 and bald.
>>18684317>leg extension>~20cm in heightDo they add copium to fin now?
>>18681925I saw a man with a hair system peeling off at the back and that convinced me i'd never feel comfortable with it. If drugs and transplants don't work i'll just be bald thanks.
>>18684317>Honestly with so many hair loss cures in the works right nowpretty much all of them are bunkthe most promising one is VDPHL01 and that's literally just because it's minoxidil everything else will fail almost certainly
>>18684467you might be right but why are you so certain they'll likely fail?
>>18684491It has been proven time and again that DHT is the smoking gun when it comes to male pattern hair loss. And once you hit your genetic age (determined in the womb) where MPB kicks in, DHT will miniaturize your follicles until fibrosis and scar tissue is created, which is irreversible. That’s why regrowth in slick bald areas is considered miracle tier and impossible once the arrector pili muscle has detached from the hair follicle. So either they create a better hair growth stimulant than minoxidil (hasn’t happened in nearly 50 years) or they find a way to literally turn back the cellular clock on your scalp. Not happening in our lifetimes. You will be 50 years old on fin/min and maybe they will have robots who recreate (to the best they can) your juvenile hairline with a transplant.
>>18684609If regenitive stem cell therapy can continue to advance then targeted hair follicle regrowth would definitely follow as a top 5 cosmetic use for women, trickling down to men naturally. I doubt there will ever be a cure, but there will be a near perfect option to fix it maybe within 50 years.
>>18681925how can you be christian and wear a wig?all aspects of it is a sinit's like lying to people everydayand you also don't accept your body how god made it
>>18684633if there was a just god baldness wouldn’t exist in the first place
>>18684635God sent two bears to maul a bunch of teenagers that were making fun of the prophet Elisha for being bald(they were probably going to beat him to death after they were done mocking him too). There's a lesson in that.
>>18684317>The manlet can get a leg extension, gaining ~20cm in height.
What am I in for?
>>18684692Depression and heart palpitations.Dutasteride is very strong stuff. I take only a fraction of the (topical) dose they recommend and it still impacts me in a significant way. I don't ever get depressed about anything, by the way, which is one of the things they ask you when you get on Dutasteride. I don't think it matters whether you're prone to it or not. It happens on this stuff.
>>18684692a limp dick and some hair regrowth
>>18684698>>18684707Fuck I'm excited
>>18684609i'd be happy with a hair growth stimulant better than minoxidil because of minoxidil side effects
>>18684692My face got a bit puffy for a week or two when I started oral min and my eyebrows got really thick, no heart stuff. If you get sides from dut just switch to fin, I'm sure you'll be fine if you are relatively healthy mentally and physically.>>18684698Topical dut has a molecule weight which exceeds the 500 da rule meaning it is not passing the systemic barrier in a meaningful way, in other words you are imagining your symptoms.
>>18684692bro how did you get oral min prescribedthen again, I'd still rather dose out 12mg oral min with a dropper, way cheaper.>>18684698The min palpitations only come from starting with too high a dose, acclimate over a week or 2 and you won't get any sides.First week I was on 5mg oral min, I took a second 5mg dose at night to see what would happen and it made me incredibly horny and kept me up all night.
>>18684766What's hard about getting oral min? It shouldn't be a problem unless you are european or something.
>>18684750The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias where people with limited knowledge or competence in a domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence.
>>18684787Topical dut does not go systemic, I will grant you until the end of time to pull up any data suggesting otherwise. Sorry you're just mentally ill, it's not the meds.
is fin affecting skin or acne just placebo? i thought it doesnt block the type of dht found in skin
>>18684790It will lessen hormonal acne yes, DHT is DHT. It used to be prescribed to women for that reason, maybe still is rarely.
I feel like my throat is dry is that a side of fin???
>>18684802no
>>18680385How bad are Turkey Hair transplants? I saw a youtuber went to one, and recommended me the same clinic, but reading from leddit. I'm told to avoid Turkey
>>18684808hair transplanting requires the skill and finesse of actual surgery so don't go for clinics competing on price alone
>>18684808You always get what you pay for. Obviously a $3k turkjob is not going to compare to a reputable surgeon in the west charging $15k. Don't cheap out the results are permanent without additional surgeries.
>>18684828>>18684814My issue is I have traction alopecia. I went a American doctor, and he was asking for 7k, the one Turkey clinic I looked at was asking for 3k.
>>18684829Then decide if a lesser result is worth saving $4k
>>18684829Traction alopecia is usually worst at the hairline, and that’s the easiest place to get butchered and end up with a “hair plug” look. Low graft survival rates and donor over-extraction is another risk when you go to a hair mill. Don’t cheap out.
>>18680385I keep long hair. Is it balding if I can see my scalp without my hair being wet? I mean outside of my part, just above my forehead, i don't part it but I can see my scalp, especially after I massage my hair with coconut oil
>>18684893First of all, yes, read the OP. Pull your hair back and look at your hairline, is it straight across from edge to edge, or does it form an M shape?
>>18684893Post a pic of it under direct light and you will have a guaranteed answer
>>18684808It depends on the clinic, do your research, look at results and if possible talk to people that have done transplants at that clinic.
Will you get results if you use too little topical minox? I only need like 0.3-0.4ml to cover the hairline +inch behind it. Or am I getting all the negatives without any gains
>>18684633>and you also don't accept your body how god made itAre christians also not allowed to get chemo because god specifically created Timmy's body for him to die of leukemia at 4 years old?
Holy fuck, how often will I have to shave my head? I took the buzzpill 2 days ago and I already feel like i'm starting to get an intense norwood shadow
>>18684938It works where you apply it. Mix it with tretinoin or adapalene if you feel like it isn’t working, some people are non-responders to topical minoxidil.
>>18684960Keeping the clean shaven bald look is ironically a lot more work than taking a fin pill a day
>>18684893>Is it baldingYes. If you have to ask, it's over or close to.
>>18681721of course it matters. sweat wind rain will fuck up your cope fringe and reveal non existent density and framing. NW1 is the defualt state.
Why aren't you using copper peptides on your hairline and crown? Why aren't you microneedling with GHK-cu?
>>18685164
>>18685164>>18685165because it probably doesn’t even grow 3 hairs per cm^2 for all that effort and cost. Time has shown that anything besides Fin/Dut/Min is not worth the effort. Unless you take spiro and get estradiol injections because you are willing to troon out for your hair, or need RU because you’re a roidhead on something besides exogenous testosterone.
>>18682894>any place i can buy a cheap generic cheaplyHave you tried literally any pharmacy ever, genius?
the proper fag board is really slow (and retarded most of the time) so i'm asking heredo i as an actual tranny still need fin/dut? Some apparently still make DHT somehow even with the test gone but at the same time many say that they are fine without fin/dut so idk.Also does age have some effect on regrowth? My situation is pretty bad at NW 2-3 but i'm in my early 20s so is that a source of hope or a cope?
>>18685330thats how you look like irl
>>18685361I've never seen a balding tranny because estrogen literally regrows hair and is easy to buy like steroids and that dude isn't taking any.
>>18685361i'm not that mentally ill. would never go outside looking like that or even tell anybody about being one while looking like a regular dude>>18685370>estrogen literally regrows hairbut to what extend i wonder. there is no clear consensus and people who supposedly regrew a lot of hair are often accused of having done a transplant.I'm not quite on hrt yet but i'm really close so i wonder if i should even bother with getting a fin prescription in advance.
>>18685382You will want to do everything alongside HRT as a NW3 and even so the best case realistic scenario is reversing .5-1 norwood scale. Eliminating 100% of DHT and Test will not regrow a receded hairline and nobody knows exactly why but it's much harder than recovering density from a diffuse pattern loss. You are basically locked into a typical male hairline if you do not opt for a transplant. I'm not one to judge but objectively this will not be doing you any favors and you should perhaps reconsider because you will inevitably look like this >>18685361
>>18685394>is reversing .5-1 norwood scalei also heard some people say that you reclaim stuff lost in past 1-3 years. Is that bullshit and only NW matters or is time also a factor?>and you should perhaps reconsideri know. this has been on my mind for quite a while and made me hesitate a lot. however i am a little lucky that i don't care about people seeing me as a guy for now. so i thought about presenting as one until i have the money for a transplant and other stuff.
>>18685399That information is likely pertaining to thinning cases which can be recovered with far more accuracy when factoring in time and regimen. The hairline specifically following the norwood scale is unlikely to recover regardless of what you throw at it. You will see it gain some density and square off at the rounded temple points but it will never lower back down to a norwood 0-1 especially from 2-3 in 99.9% of people. There is no going back without surgery. Keep in mind transplant clinics do not have expertise in re-creating female hairlines (there is a difference) and your result may be less than desirable, especially if you ever decide to be a man again.
>>18685403
>>18685403>unlikely to recover regardless of what you throw at it.I know i know. There is no avoiding transplants and other similar things in this case. That i already made peace with.Now how i make the best of what i already got? Is there any need for fin/dut if in most cases DHT should be suppressed alongside 'regular' test? I am already on minox for a little bit and i think i can see some baby hairs where there weren't any before but i could also be misremembering what it looked like before. There's potential if its the first case is what i wanted to say i guess.
>>18685409Yes you will still have test.
>>18685411not with hrt you don't. i think there's a bit of confusion. i'm just asking of there is any need for fin/dut on top of that or if hrt alone solves the DHT problem so much that those are not needed at all
>>18685412Yes you do even with hrt.
>>18685412You need such little DHT to ravage your hair follicles (only 10% of the testosterone in a male body turns into DHT), it’s best to take fin/dut irregardless
>>18685403>Keep in mind transplant clinics do not have expertise in re-creating female hairlines (there is a difference) To be fair, there are surgeons who will lower a female hairline and give a great result. It generally involves FUT (better graft yield, scarring doesn't matter since women usually wear their hair long).
honestly why hang on to thinning hairi shaved yesterday feel better and free
>>18685523thinning is easier to address with drugs. when you have the typical pattern of male hair loss, your follicles get obliterated with nothing left there except scar tissue.
>>18685522I feel like this wouldn't translate well on a broad male skull
>>18683735I see 6'2 bald guys doing way better
Isn't it bizarre that anyone living in the developed world could ever blame a nutrient deficiency for hair loss. Fucking bulimics have full heads of hair simply due to genes and nothing else. You need to be a tortured Auschwitz prisoner to experience genuine telogen effluvium or nutrient related hair loss.
>>18685648usually a nutritional deficiency is caused by some kind of autoimmune disorder, especially thyroid issues and diabetes, it's mostly a symptom rather than the actual cause.
>>18685648to be fair some people are fat but still have poor nutrient intake for hair, so some really thin people can be even worse, but yeah it's usually androgenic alopecia that's mostly causing balding even if youre far from ideal in vitamin and minerals intake
>>18685652and what are your thoughts in terms of autoimmune conditions?
>>18682894everyone is recomending legit pharmacies but im jus tryna get some off the gray web with no perscription. We're zoomers here, we don't wanna talk to a doctor thats scary. Video calling an indian is even more scary.
>>18685660you're going to get grey market fin from india then, tough shit
>>18685662i don't care where its from bro
>>18685660You go to a dermatologist. They’ll prescribe a whole package deal and then throw it at you like candy. It’s nothing to be scared about.>Go in because of folliculitis>Notices my diffuse thinning>”Are you interested in treating that, Anon?”>Walk out with a grocery list of prescriptions including face wash just because.
>>18685667okay i will try it. I need to go for other things anyways. Just as long as you promise it'll be okay
>>18680385if your head looks like yaqub, then you must shave it to exert power over the peons
>>18685660U can just do telehealth which will hace you upload pictures and then make a quick call. Or do all day chemist (pls no ban if I'm not allowed to say that)
>>18685648There's fucking 80 pound Africans with full heads of hair
>>18685828Yes but they're usually out in the sun since most of them don't have a home or they don't have anything to do at home so they spend the majority of their time out doors, which means they're absorbing vitamin D 24/7, people really underestimate how important vitamin D is for overall skin and hair health.
>>18685907No, that doesn't matter, you retarded paleoshitter. Here is a woman locked in a room for 25 years. Notice her full head of hair?>b-but she's a woman so she doesn't have male AGA Yes, dumbass, we are discussing Vitamin D from sun exposure and guess what, that is a nothingburger.
>>18685907Didn't do shit for me. D3+k2 Supplements and 8+ hours a day outside, still lost hair.
>>18685928Then how do you explain hair loss due to autoimmune conditions and when the condition is medicated their hair starts to grow back?
>>18685929did you get enough magnesium? you need magnesium to activate vitamin d
>>18686077What's there to explain? It's a rare condition. Most alopecias are very distinct looking from each other. Nutrient related hairloss does not present in the Norwood pattern, but you know what does? AGA. And even with diffuse thinners, if you "suddenly" start thinning after puberty, do you think you just gained a new allergy or nutrient loss, or is it more likely that you are genetically balding? FFS, the ancients understood that HORMONES are what lead to the typical loss of hair. Because they observed how eunuchs never had temporal recession.
>>18686087Idk but fin and min brought it back. How are the emaciated Africans getting a proper allotment of magnesium tho
>>18683132It's the exact opposite: it's proof that god exists but that he fucking hates some of us us
Blocking DHT at the scalp is all that matters. Anything else is cope.
Why can't i apply min or any other topical treatment on days I stab my head with tiny needles? this is fucking gay man.
>>18686288why not? the punctures are no that deep that the liquid will go bloodstream
>>18686305I have no idea. Every source I've said to wait at least 24 hours before applying minoxidil or any other topical treatment for some reason.
>>18686306at least 24? so what are you applying minox every other day you'll just shed, minox needs day to day consistentcy it's nto as lenient as fin.
>>18686307The same sources also say to only needle once a week at most, sometimes as far as once a month at most depending on length of needle used.Shit sucks, man. I'm a busybody retard that wants to feel like I'm doing shit, so I'd be doing min every day + red light every day + scalp massage every day + microneedle every other day or every 3rd day if I didn't think it'd fuck me shit up. That reminds me, I also read not to massage the same day you needle, so that's another thing I can't do apparently...
>>18686311a bunch of bullshit when all you need is fin and min. you'll just burn yourself out. with stuff like this you need to make it as effortless as possible.
>>18686288You can just take low dose oral min on those days. The microneedling will increase blood flow to the scalp carrying the min. 1.25mg is equivalent to a topical dose of 1ml, nothing extreme.
>>18686313What part of calling myself a busy body retard did you not understand? The fin and min are so quick and effortless and I've been doing them for years, so I don't have any concern on lapsing on those. The other ones I'm eager to do more, so I'm not worried about those either, but that wouldn't be the case for past-me admittedly.>>18686314Yeah I was thinking that might be the route to go. I'm just a scaredy bitch when it comes to the heart and skin stuff of oral min.
What do you think of this month's "breakthrough in curing hairloss" brought to you by the japanese?
>>18686318QRD?
>>186863161.25mg won't cause any issue it is incredibly short acting and the microneedling will act as means to localize the effects to the scalp to some degree. Just time it appropriately and I've never heard of oral min affecting the skin, I would think you might encounter a drying out effect by topical run down on the forehead.
>>18686319Nip university found out there are cells under each follicle that control growth by sending a signal. Growing old and other factors can weaken the signal causing the hair to weaken and the follicle to die given enough time. They also found that these cells can be isolated and possibly transplanted. It's been met with raving reviews from mice all over japan but human applications remain to be seen.At this point I'm convinced splicing mouse dna on the head and just rubbing whatever you can find on it would be the ultimate cure.
>>18686327you've got a point m8. bit sussy how the common link between all these miracle cures is mice, yet Big Hair™ never suggests puréed mice injections...
>>18686306There's generally two justifications for this>the idea that minoxidil will absorb through those needled channels and get SO systemic that it will lead to sides AKA Retard Copeand >the minoxidil isnt sterile and you shouldnt introduce it to fresh woundsI personally avoid it due to the latter and because I do deep treatments @ 1.5mm with a derminator so I don't want irritation. BUT if you're just stamping/rolling you can get away with applying it immediately after.
>>18686329Not all studies that are done on mice translate well onto humans, hence why most of the times when you hear some news about scientists curing mice from some kind of disease it never goes anywhere, they usually still require more testing.
>thinning cowlick is now noticable that people are literally just stare at it
>>18686364rude.
>>18686345>I do deep treatments @ 1.5mm with a derminatorHow are your results with that? I'm looking at a Derminator 2 and it seems pretty hardcore.
>>18686384its the best fucking thing in the world, and after spinning my wheels with topical fin/min, adding 1.5mm every two weeks has given me much thicker vellus hairs/some new terminal.Also it's great for the skin
Is this legit? Is it helpful for men?
>>18686403The good advice there>use 2% keto shampoo>sulfates and bond repair conditioners are good for your hair>silk pillowcase - 'cause it's comfyThis seems targeted at women so at least there was no fear mongering about 5AR inhibitors. When Goatis himself got a shitty turkish transplant where his hairline looks like the surgeon placed a tea pot over his head and planted grafts around it, you know the sun worshippers, diet nuts, and people who advocate for "natural" cures are wrong about hair.
>>18686403>screenshot of a xitter post from a fucking jeetShame really is dead huh
>>18686403most of it is memes and shit for women, but the ketoconazole shampoo, scalp massage, and red light bits are legitimate. The part about caffeine serum and rosemary water (or oil) may or may not be legit, but I have at least heard the rosemary part recommended a lot regardless of whether it actually does anything.
>>18686410It's a strange hill to die on to be sure. Jordan Peterson did the same and attributes it to a carnivore diet.
>>18686436Meanwhile in India some 90 year old Rishi has a full head of hair and hasn't consumed an animal product ever. You diet copers make me fucking SICK
>>18686437I'm not one lol. Just pointing out another case of attributing diet to hair on an obvious transplant patient
Speaking of transplants, where does this idea that you need a shitty low graft low density """mature""" hairline come from? Do 40 year olds without AGA have mature hairlines or do they have straight NW1s (rhetorical).If you are NW2 and prepared to take fin/dut for life, you can afford to spend 2000+ grafts to get your hairline back. Your donor will be fine and you will have a NW1. Surgeons seem intent on keeping donor hairs for future surgeries, but why would you do that, when you can do it right the first time and maintain the rest with drugs? I don't get it. Not all grafts will live, but a mild touch up doesn't need thousands of grafts.
>>18680385found out something interesting today, as I started my own fin 1mg and 5% minox journey. I've always wondered why people suffer side effects, but I think it's because they're taking dutasteride (blocks 99% dht) instead of fin (70%)Why do people even try dutasteride if it's such an aggressive blocker ?
>>18686647Dutasteride user here. I feel exactly the same on it as I did Finasteride - that is to say, literally no side effects whatsoever except maybe slightly less body hair after years. Beard is exactly the same. And we do it because we can, lol. Finasteride not stopping loss is exceedingly rare, and it provides regrowth in regions that were miniaturized. Dutasteride is slightly better for regrowth, and it blocks the type 1 5AR enzyme, which can lead to less oily skin/scalp.
>>18686402Wonder how it compares to the DrPen H6 and M9.
>>18686647I’ve had less side effects with Dut than with Fin (admittedly it’s barely a side effect to begin with). Aside from that it’s newer and better formulated, also cheaper unless we’re talking about splitting 5mg. You also get peace of mind knowing you take the strongest DHT blocker available.
>>18686647The proper protocol is to try dut if fin isn't working. People are stupid by their going dut first, or assuming fin working means their NW3 should go all the way back to 1 and not just stopping further hair loss with minimal reversal if lucky.
>>18686645>Surgeons seem intent on keeping donor hairs for future surgeries, but why would you do that, when you can do it right the first time and maintain the rest with drugs?Because it's not actually guranteed fin/dut will stop all receeding for your whole life, silly. If you have nothing left in the donor area, you will end up receeding behind your transplanted hairline, which looks fucking comical. It's safer to settle for a reasonable hairline that looks good for your age with enough left in the donor area to maintain it if you do recede more.
>>18686647no doctor is prescribing dut. it's literally just niggas imaging shit. they take fuckign dut to alleviate sides even though it literally does the same thing.
>>18686675>Because it's not actually guranteed fin/dut will stop all receeding for your whole life, silly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFJJGdiU5qYThere are men who have been on these drugs for over 25 years at this point. They all say that Finasteride/Dutasteride froze their hair in place from the day they took their first pill. Inhibit DHT, and you stop AGA. There are senescent alopecias, but they present as diffuse thinning and leave the hairline intact.
>>18686678https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6AEGL1VhwcAnother guy. And there are many accounts from those who started Proscar/Propecia back in the day.
>>18686668Cant dut cause diabetes? Or where am I remembering this from
>>18686683no? it can do something to the liver though but that's a lot of meds.
do you guys think temple recession or crown thinning is worse?
>>18686707temple because it affects the framing of your face. crown thinning is rough when you're young but generally accepted when you're 30+ if you have a decent hairline still
>>18686645The idea is you want a HIGH density hairline. It's easier and more fool proof to augment the existing hairline rather than fabricate a lower one, any competent surgeon will tell you this. You will RARELY see this level of density and imperfection mimicking a natural hairline on a transplantee who opted for a low norwood, it's takes a lot more talent and grafts than you would think and the average turkish clinic is not pushing out results like these, let alone the states. Personally I would rather be a more advanced norwood with higher density than something like picrel, to each their own though I suppose.
>>18686707A lot of hairstyles still work in favor of a receded hairline depending on your age. Crown thinning always looks bad no matter what. Density > Norwood stage up until they meet.
>>18686803Picrel would not be able to pull this off if he went the way of diffuse thinning, instead it's arguably better at his age than a nw0. Granted he is maintaining it with a touchup here and there and certainly on meds.
>>18686705The Google AI said dut can cause diabeetus in certain individuals
>>18686678>the men who had it work for their entire lives say it worked for their entire lives>therefore it works for all men for their entire lives with no exceptions whatsoeverI will give you the benefit of the doubt this is just an intelectual weak moment for you and not a legitimate disability. Get some rest and re-read my original post when you're feeling better.
>>18686805You're actually right but that’s for both Finasteride and Dutasteride. Both can increase the likelihood of developing type II diabetes by 30%, which is rough now that I’m reading it.
>>18686830So many people are on the verge of prediabetes with fatness and no exercise so considering that it makes sense
>>18686834I hope you’re right. I’m a healthy Brown Aryan who barely eats sugar outside of fruits.
>>18686830My buddy @grok (is this true) told me that 30% is from an observational study that likely overstates the increase, and that a newer cohort study pegging it at a 6% increase is likely closer to the truth.Any increase is still pretty gay, tho. The good news if you stay truly lean (as in not overweight or obese by BMI, don't have a high waist-to-hip ratio even if you pass THAT criteria, and don't have high visceral fat even if you pass THAT criteria) and maintain at least above average muscle mass, the risk of developing type 2 diabetes is 0.5% at the most and likely much lower.
I've been using topical minox foam for over a year, thinking of switching to oral tablets. Is it redundant to do both?
>>18686857It is beneficial to be on both but certainly not necessary with oral. If your results on topical were meh, to non existent you are better off just dropping it and making the switch. If you had noticeable results from the topical but just need that little extra push it can be worth combining the two and seeing where you end up. Honestly I would taper off the topical over 6 months - 1 year and just do the topical, increasing dose if necessary
>>18686860Just do the oral*
>>18686667dr pen devices are absolute dog shit, they buzz and vibrate with shitty tiny blades (they're not needles).Here is a comparison at 2.5mm (a stupid high depth just for stress testing) with no gliding serum, and dragging across the banana. First image is derminator second image is dr pen.
>>18686890I watched that yesterday.
>>18683129He's the reason why I don't mind going bald
Is it possible for fin to take me from a N2 to a N1?
>>18686899>>18686899N2 isn't even a real norwood fuck off. it might be a good idea to take fin to guarantee no hairloss ever if you're this neurotic, tho.
>>18686855Surely dut is somewhat higher than fin not both 6%?
>>18686903Yeah that was just for fin, no idea about dut. That's my gut feeling too, though.
>>18686811There’s no evidence that the mechanism which causes AGA changes with aging. And 5AR inhibitors control that mechanism, Dutasteride in particular causes DHT levels in the follicles to be undetectable.https://youtube.com/watch?v=cXUJm2vXEQ4https://youtube.com/watch?v=xsEzBPAAnyw
>>18686899Hairline recovery is hard>first to go; weakest hairs to DHT>people start by the time they notice they’re showing more scalp skin at the hairline, ie, they start when the hairs are already heavily miniaturized if not fully goneYou want dutasteride and minoxidil for the best shot. Add Spiro + Estradiol if you gave up on being a dude.
if youre using ketoconazle 2% shampoo twice per week what are some good shampoos for the other days? keto is drying on my scalp
>>18686911To add, i use a dermaroller and topicla minoxidil directly to the receded parts i wanna grow back. This should increase probably of at least some new growth, and to certainly keep what is there now? I've been on topical finasteride also for about 3 weeks now and haven't noticed any shedding. I do positive health affirmations and practice semen retention also so i think that is definitely going to have a good effect. Your word is your wand.
>>18686909You will certainly want to monitor your hormonal levels as you reach middle age on dut. The test to estrogen gap closes quite a bit the older you get past 35.
>>18686914>I do positive health affirmationsQRD?
>>18686914Are you a responder to topical minoxidil? It will do very little if you're not seeing results after a couple months.
>>18686914Dermarolling combined with min is a good strategy, but remember that you don’t need to be too aggressive or frequent with the microneedling. Too aggressive and there’s a risk of creating scar tissue, and then you’re truly boned. Try applying a retinoid to the hairline after min, that will increase sulfotransferase activity.
>>18686804Just because he always had a high forehead, that doesn’t mean the NW3 clown hairline is flattering. He’s pulling it off insofar as he’s already handsome, like Jack Nicholson when he was early NW3.
>>18686916See pic rel. Recommended authors are:1. Dr Joe Dispenza2. All Neville Goddard works>>18686917I am a positive min responder ive been on it for a fear years now, it added some volume and stopped the sheds i was getting. I added fin to my stack bc i was getting some shedding but the shedding is gone now? So idk maybe the shedding is unrelated or diet or something. Cause now im now. But i might as well just hop on fin now. My goal is to essentially keep what i have now, or more, into my 50's and 60's. 30 years from now surely they will have finally solved the male pattern baldness problem in a post singularity civilization (assuming we're all still alive)
>>18686919>Try applying a retinoid to the hairline after min, that will increase sulfotransferase activity.Interdasting. Do you happen to have a source that talks about this?
>>18686919Ya i only dermaroll once per week, and dont apply too much pressure to where it hurts, but i can still feel something.
>>18686924https://www.researchgate.net/publication/332376875_Tretinoin_Enhances_Minoxidil_Response_in_Androgenetic_Alopecia_Patients_by_Up-Regulating_Follicular_Sulfotransferase_Enzymes>Of clinical significance, in our cohort, 43% of subjects initially predicted to be non‐responders to minoxidil were converted to responders following 5 days of topical tretinoin application.
>>18686920I don't think a nw0 looks very appealing after a certain age especially on a "weathered" looking face. It comes across as old gay man to me personally, something uncanny about it. Some recession can compliment the totality of your image, obviously don't go full nw5 and tufts of hair on the sides. high density nw 1.5-2 ish is a sweet spot I think, but to each their own.
>>18686929But your head is a 3D object, in motion that hairline frames the head better than any degree of recession. Like that spiky front doesn’t work once you have an island of hair going, which is to say, you lose out on haircut options with each stage of Norwood. I think a NW0 on an old guy looks “weird” only because we have the social expectation of some level of hair loss with age. But nobody thinks it’s weird to dye your graying hair.
>>18686927Dang, nice. Thanks anon.
>>18686934Density is what matters, by the time you have an island going you have passed that point. Make no mistake there is certainly a fair bit of ridicule directed at older guys with blatant dye jobs, the butt of many jokes. Again, to each their own!
>>18686929>It comes across as old gay man to me personallykek it really do be like that.
>>18686937You know, looking at this pic made me realize what makes Rob look uncanny. His haircut itself, with the spiky fringe, is associated with teenagers. If Rob opted for a side part or slick back like George has here, it would look less weird. Possibly.
>>18686940It's all about the temple points. Brad Pitt has an almost identical, if not even lower hairline but that small amount of recession goes such a long way.
>>18686929>>18686939what about white or gray hair with nw0
>>18686962
>>18686962>>18686963Looks badass to me, silver fox look. I'll bet girls prefer dyed though, unless you want women over 35.
>>18686962A genuine norwood 0 is not great for optics, you need temple points.>>18686963More like a strong nw1 than a 0
>>18686937>>1868694064-year-old George Clooney had to shave his hairline and dye his hair black for Good Night, and Good Luck.
anyone have experience with getting from norwood 3 to norwood 2 with fin + min? my temples are pretty receded, but no crown thinning
>>18686993It's highly unlikely but the only way to know for sure is to take the meds for a year+. It will realistically improve but you're not going to get results that dramatic without a lot of luck.
>>18686993People who get crazy improvement move on with their lives and balding related forums. But the consensus is half a norwood is doable, I went from NW2 to NW1.5. And I even delayed treatment even though I knew I was receding for two whole years. If you want to maximize your results get dut instead of fin. Even a little more regrowth in the frontal hairline (10 extra terminal hairs per square cm) adds a lot of visual density.
>>18686999>>18687000makes sense, guess we'll see
>>18687037Hey at least it won't get worse and you could always be starting at a norwood 4+ instead.
>>18687037Like the other anon said, be patient and realistic. There are some hyper-responders out there, but those are outliers. What the evidence suggests is that your hair is going to peak above baseline 2ish years from now, with some sheds/synchronized sheds in-between. And at NW3 you will keep improving each year.
>>18686914>I do positive health affirmationsDo you also collect magic crystals, read tarot cards and write down your daily thoughts in a journal?
>>18686909>There’s no evidence that the mechanism which causes AGA changes with aging.Irrelevant, responses to 5AR inhibitors do vary, from regrowth through stopping to only slowed hair loss or no effect at all. It depends on the combination of your DHT levels, given fin/dut reduce them to about 30%/2% respectively, and follicle sensitivity. Some people do only experience slower receeding, not a complete stop, and this isn't always obvious. You're free to go all in and spend all your follicles on the hairline with nothing left for potential continued receeding, you've been warned.
wish i had known more about balding when i was youngeri fell for the mature hairline and thinning is normal meme
>>18687279Most of us did. I even had the cope "I'll take Finasteride once it's a problem" like it's not better to take it while you're satisfied with your hair and not have issues down the line.
>>18687279>>18687284Did any of you guys have a straight up denial phase? I was norwood 3 by the time I graduated highschool and I just fucking refused to believe I could be balding at such a young age.
>>18687314I coped all the way up until a family member commented on me having a bald spot. I had actually convinced myself it was just lighting for over a year. Sucks because I knew all about fin way before any of it.
>>18687314>>18687316For me the cope was that I "always" had a widow's peak. And I did, but a receding M shaped hairline has nothing to do with a widow's peak. Like this guy has a widow's peak but the hairline of a 14 year old.
>>18687314yep and i didnt know about fin until it was too late
>>18687136>responses to 5AR inhibitors do vary, from regrowth through stopping to only slowed hair loss or no effect at all. That's not the point. If you already know that for your own case 5AR inhibitors worked to stop your hair loss, then you can be confident that they work as long as you take them, periodic sheds or not. Like I said, age related thinning is not the same as full temporal recession that leads to a shiny scalp, the latter of which is put on pause if you respond to drugs.
Why does it seem like balding has become a meme recently? It was always something people were insecure about, but we're reaching next level as of late.
>>18687345Tiktok/looksmax becoming mainstream
>>18687345Balding on men went from a cultural expectation to a social death sentence in the span of one generation.
Took dutasteride 0.5mg hope nothing bad happens.
Does anyone here split their 2.5mg min tablets? I was thinking of splitting them into 1/4 for a while to start out.
>>18687366You can split them in half, fourths is overkill as 1.25mg is already a good introductory dose
>>18687366start with 1/4th just to see how your body reacts to it then increase the dose later
Will oral minoxidil make my face look older? I use copper peptides, tret, etc, but I'm still wondering if it affects facial fat pads.
>>18687414No it's an urban legend. Most people start min in their late 20s, coinciding with balding progression and natural aging. Since they're now paying attention to their hair, skin is the natural progression in the appearance rabbit hole which they also neglected forever, but now notice always present signs of aging. You may get water retention initially but it subsides after a couple weeks at most.
This is the most depressing thread ever
>>18687418Losing your hair does not exactly inspire joy.
Is this guy the worst example of a grifter in any industry? What's crazier than a guy who clearly does not have any male pattern hair loss genes but makes his living off of balding people.
guys, do you judge over your balding state with your day to day hair or your hair pulled back with the hand?i have straight hairline and everything looks normal when i wear my hair normally.now when i pull the corners back with my hand, you can clearly see it's not a straight line.which one is the "real" hairline?
>>18687553Pulled back
>>18687497I don't who this is but if someone is shilling anything other than fin/dut/min they are a scam artist.
>>18687497kek I ended up watching of his videos by chance and was just malding at his hairline and density. basically just thinking "hairful BITCH you have no idea what you're talking about" the entire time. if you're going to do a fucking hairloss video while having this much hair, you at least need to show me pics of your past where you had way less hair.
>>18687606*watching one of his videos
>>18687591how can i judge it then if i have the same recession since early 20's?i never thought about it because it's not visible in any hairstyle i ever had
>>18687617You can't without photos. If your hairline is receded then you are balding, maybe just slower than other cases.
>>18687629top is couple years old, long hairbottom is from now, short hair
>>18687656It does look like there's some slight recession in the corner, but overall you still have a good hairline and head of hair overall. If it were me in your shoes knowing what I know now, I'd just skip all the autism, get a 5mg finasteride subscription, cut them into quarters and take 1.25mg daily or even every other day, and forget about it. Ofc you might be worried about the very small but still real risk of considerable side effects, so ultimately the choice is up to you. All I can say to that end is the vast majority of us take it with no side effects or very mild ones.
>>18687668thanks for the advice.i'm nearly 30, does hair loss still kick in after that age?my father had full hair till late 40's with 'mature hairline', still has around 80% of his hair in his 60's.i have only one uncle with actual hair loss on my mothers side, like bald bald in 30's.
>>18687656You are about a norwood 1.5 now which is balding albeit slowly.>>18687680If you can make it into your 50s you are probably safe. 30s are as dangerous as 20s if not more so for a rapid onset of balding. Personally if I wanted to keep my hair the way it is I would take fin as a precaution rather than leave it up to chance.
>>18687656You have a Norwood 2 and it’s progressing. Look at how your hairline is becoming more “V” shaped at the temples over time. There’s no stopping it without Finasteride or Dutasteride, so if you like your hair, start sooner rather than later. You have slow recession, but that will obviously add up over time.
>>18687656Easiest way to tell is not a frontal or side view, but a top down one. If you are balding, you would be able to see your hairline in the temporal dimension moving towards your ears.
If you live in western Europe and want to order online Fin 1mg pills and Minox 2.5 mg pills (using pill splitting if needed) where should one look? Something cheap/safe. Prescription prices are outrageous here. Thanks.
>>18688026Have you tried opting for splitting 5mg fin into quarters? Also if you get a bottle of 5% topical min you can take 2 drops orally to equal 2.5mg, which will last you a year.
>>18688032Yes, I've heard of that, thanks.I'm just on the lookout for some sites where I can buy/import the generics if they're not too sketchy.
>>18688036You will need to find an Indian or Asian pharmacy which means you risk customs seizing your shipment and all future ones if you get caught. Try asking the trans subreddit unironically
Can i get some opinions on this diffuse thinning timeline?First pic from left to right is december, january, february and the last one was taken today(middle of april.)https://files.catbox.moe/y01lno.pngAll i've done is switched from finasteride to dut. Is that regrowth or are all of my folicles dead and done for? I'm 21 and started balding at age 17, went on finasteride for a few years and swapped to dut this year bc fin wasnt cutting it.3 months dut thus far.
>>18688063Yes good regrowth for only 3 months. Results peak 1 year+
>>18688063And consider minoxidil to fill in the crown, it works best for diffuse thinners.
>>18688063wtf should i switch to dut
>>18688071Im already on min but i struggle with consistent use. Same with dermarolling.With min ill skip a day or two and i dermaroll once every two weeks.Glad to hear that.Bear in mind pic 1 is me after getting a full shave at the barber so i could see how bald i am + dermaroll and apply topical min easier. So some of that "regrowth" might be just what folicles ive had anyway growing
>>18688074It's clearly filling in significantly from the front moving backwards to the crown. The hairs outside of the immediate radius of the crown were likely not damaged as severely due to diffuse thinning usually working it's way from the crown outwards, that's why you see thickening in these areas sooner. You even have a whorl taking shape again on the crown so there is still plenty of room for more regrowth.
>>18688076:)Hopepill.To perhaps redpill ppl on dutasteride, i hadnt experienced any of the negative side effects thus far. I'm on 0.5mg a day. Penis works fine.
>>18688077I have teh sadz and my penis does not work fine.
What's min even do when you're on fin or dut? Blah blah it's a vasodilator but what's going to be different?
>>18688280It opens a potassium channel in the hair bulb that tells it to grow. This is amazing for getting pesky intermediate or further miniaturized diameter hairs to convert to fully terminal. There's no reason to leave min on the table if you're already on a 5AR inhibitor. It doesn't stop balding, but it's synergistic with those drugs. Topical foam is easy to apply and dries quickly, but it is much more pricey than the liquid (ironically costs more than generic fin/dut for daily use) so you can opt the liquid form, but that has the downside of taking forever to dry and triggers dermatitis in some people.The downside to minoxidil's hair growth effects is that response is genetically determined. You can go with liposomal minoxidil from folligenz ($$$) or apply a retinoid to the areas where you use min to increase topical response. And you might think, screw it, I'll avoid this by using oral minoxidil, but the amount of sulfotransferase in your liver is also genetically determined.
Clavicular is on dutatasteride. Does his dick and libido still work? What does he take?
>>18688308His dick and libido dont work but thats because he's been on trt since 14
Im bald on my crown, been shaving my head for a year, once or twice a week depending on if I have stuff going on. I'm pretty fit, bout 15% or under body fat, and comfortable with how I look. But I'm contemplating hair treatment for the fuck of it. Not sure if worth it tho. Here's a pic of top of my head.
>>18688543Honestly, ~1mg of finasteride per day (subscription for 5mg and cut into quarts with cheap pill cutter), stabbing your head with a ~$10 dermastamp once a week (only once per area, nothing crazy), and dumping some minoxidil on your head right before bed every night is so cheap and effortless that I'd say its worth a shot. I can even shill the dermastamp I use if you're interested.
>>18688546fuck it, send it.
>>18688549https://www.amazon.com/Titanium-Microneedles-Derma-Roller-Microneedling/dp/B0DG88MXVR/This is the specific listing I bought from, but lots of different listings are selling this same Chinese crap if you look at the picture. Some for a dollar or so less. The good thing about this dermastamp is>the needles are actually needles and not fucking triangles that widen at the base>the exposed needle length extends all the way to 2.5mm despite this not being mentioned in the product description>if the titanium claim is even true, this means you don't have to worry about needles getting bent over timeYou'll want to each area of your scalp with a extended length anywhere from 0.5 to 1.5 mm. There are some studies that swear 1.5 monthly is optimal, and others that swear 0.5 is every 2 weeks is actually better than 1.0 or 1.5 every 2 weeks. Personally, I just do 1.0mm once a week even though there's no study specifically showing that's optimal because it feels good, and any less frequent flares up my autism because it feels like I'm not doing enough. Supposedly you are not supposed to apply minoxidil the same day you microneedle, but I do it anyways and am getting results kek. I dermastamp as soon as I wake up on saturday, and then right before bed that same day I dump some min on my head. Make sure you never use a needle length over 1.5, as there's no studies showing that's safe even if it might be.Good luck m8. I have a feeling you'll get surprisingly good results if you do fin + min daily and dermastamp weekly - monthly depending on the length you use.https://youtu.be/Ky3B-Fr6sss
>>18688555Trips of truth. Thanks man. I just need to find a oral fin presription looks like. I have some topical fin from when I tried for hims, but reading this thread it sounds like oral is the way to go.
>>18688546>>18688565As someone who saw a lot of regrowth on Dutasteride but only maintenance on Finasteride, you might want to jump straight to Dutasteride since you have advanced hair loss. Side effect profile is similar, although Dutasteride side effects will persist longer (but are not permanent).
>>18688572I'm looking into it. Some sites online in the U.S. are charging $50/month, seems scammy. Gonna talk to my doc and see what they say.
>>18688592If your doctor refuses (he probably will agree to a Finasteride prescription) the cheapest way is to go through Dr. B for a consult ($15 each refill) and then have the prescription sent to either Costplusdrugs or Costco. Ideally you find a dermatologist that prescribes Dutasteride with 4 refills per year, as the generic drug is like $18 for a 90 day dose, so at even $15 each refill you are spending a lot of extra money.
>>18688281>And you might think, screw it, I'll avoid this by using oral minoxidil, but the amount of sulfotransferase in your liver is also genetically determined.It is still orders of magnitude higher in the liver than the scalp. if topical isn't doing anything, it's a good idea to try topical.
>>18680540Can we have sweaty gay sex please.
>>18688546people who go right into microneedling without even knowing whether they need it or not are so fucking retarded it's insane
>>18688281>folligenzDoes it work? For some reason they gatekeep everything behind discord like before/after pictures.
>>18688877probably snake oilthe owner is not white so there's a significant chance it's just a scamall they would have to do is make a basic 50-person 6-month study that showed 99%+ responding to it because that's what sulfated minoxidil should do. They won't, however. You don't think other, much bigger companies have had the idea to incase minoxidil sulfate in lipids to get a 100% response rate? That'd blow Rogaine out of the water and quickly overtake it in sales within a couple years, but nobody big has bothered.
>>18688878There is another company called Polaris research offering 12% minoxidil sulphate but there’s barely any documentation about it. The Folligenz negro claims on Reddit his formulation is more stable and uses different nanoparticles.
>>18688853nah.
>18 months of fin+minmy hair's densisty is thick as shit now, but my hairline is still the exact same as when i started, ie. receded nw3 crap. at least its not getting worse but i really need a transplant, no way around it.
>>18688912Oral min or topical. Try adding oral min if you haven't it really makes a difference.
Was lazy and got one of those min fin combos. I think the min is making my tinnitus worse. Been on it for 3 weeks. Is it too late to stop? Already getting a good amount of shedding.
>>18689097I would wait and see if it's just an initial adjustment period before dropping it.
>>18689097Drop it and those shed hairs won't come back + the balding process continues. Sad but true.
almost 2 months into 2.5mg oral min and 0 results I'm getting nervous about to get cucked again like I did with topical min
>>18689146You need follicles present for min to do anything, and follicles rendered fully vellus from DHT damage aren't going to convert
>>18689148>and follicles rendered fully vellus from DHT damageyou made that up on the spot
>>18689202Not so.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj6nXmP3YZo
>>18689148>>18689226I have some follicles that are short and thin around my hairline and are noticeable, but for years they wouldn't grow longer than certain lengths and were mostly just dormant. But I've been on fin for 6 months and then switched to dut for 3 months instead and they're growing longer now without shedding, do you think there's a decent chance they might get thicker since they're at least growing longer again? I'm only going to use minoxidil as a last resort because I would prefer to not commit to it.
>>18689309Maybe with time and many hair cycles (years), who knows. But if they don't? You're going to be kicking yourself, if you start minoxidil years from now then you are going to shed below baseline and take months to get your actual result, if you are a responder at all. With MPB, it's best to throw literally everything that works at it. And the foam is easy to use, it's not a big commitment.
>Reddit all says that dick shrinkage is a meme and not real>Literally start taking Fin due to massive shedding episode where I went from basically perfect, thick, greek god hair, to Norwood 3 in about a month.>Been on it a year now>Dick went from 8 and a half inches (measured before starting, and yes, my one good feature was huge dick) to 5 inches, and now flaccid is so tiny it's basically an acorn and there is tonnes of loose skin around so it looks like an old man's tiny dick where before flaccid was large to was probably what most normies would call semi erect for them.Literally halved my penis size in a year, anyone who says Fin doesn't run the risk of shrinking the dick is 100% full of shit.
>>18689350people who take fin dont really use their dicks, so i dont think it matters at all.same with the gyno effect, doesnt really matter as most dont even workout or are at least lean.
new follicles>>18689449>>18689449
