I think you can reach the softcap in natural bodybuilding after a few years of training and most guys won't look too impressive at this point, basically like "hey, this guy might possibly work out from time to time". You are limited by your hormonal profile and stop adding any noticeable muscle mass, any extra calorie you consume just turns into fat and even though you get stronger (because of this extra fat mass), you don't build any new muscle tissue, no matter what you do. I'm not a roidtranny demoralizer, but from my observations I'm afraid it really all comes down to this. Getting autistic about your routine and diet might give you a tiny advantage, but won't impact the final result by a large margin. I think it's probably wiser to slow down after hitting a serious plateau in terms of adding mass and either juice or try to stay healthy by doing cardio/sports. Natty ceiling is painfully low.
Its weird that these doomer threads pop every few days in here.. if you look like shit at natty limit, you will probably look like shit on steroids too, just bigger version of that genetic cesspool.. natural limit might not be as impressive as roid one but you should still look decently big to normies and you can especially get pretty strong as natural.. also whats stopping you if arent satisfied, testosterone is cheaper than protein powder, just try for yourself.
studies basically show you can gain 25lbs of muscle (while bulking like crazy) in your first year of lifting, like 10lbs for another year after that, and then it just keeps going down. people don't want to hear it, they rather talk loud about "muh gonna lift for 10 years bro", as if their aspirations and motivations are going to be the same and peak for the rest of their life, and that gains are linear like that. its the same story when you mention how certain muscles (such as calves and forearms) are 99% genetics and just don't respond to exercise and can be increased by maybe 1% by effort that you might aswell put somewhere else.
>>74775901These doomer threads are made by trannies who organize on discord with the sole purpose of dragging other people down to their level. These people are spiteful mutants, as Ed Dutton calls them, which means they are the direct result of natural selection being put on halt by modern society. Them and their ancestors should have died long ago because they're quite literally human garbage.
>>74775846Whatever you can achieve naturally is likely the absolute most physically attractive you can be to the opposite sex
>>74775846>>74775901>>74777313>>74776167>the natty copeyou'll still look dyel wearing clothesmaybe after 15 years of nattycuck lifting you could fit your clothes nattycucks when they will learn
>>74777918Post body. Until you do, I mog you to hell
>>74777923Are you really natty in the right pic? I’m saying no.
>>74776167>reality = doonlol zoomers
>>74777923>invisible clavicle>natty
>>74777918You don't even lift, you skinny fat troon balding faggot doomer
>>74777923How to achieve this bf as a natty?
>>74778036steroids
>>74777918just wear a tight fitting T shirt and you'll look fine, or just stop caring so much about needing everyone to notice your muscles all the time
>>74778066is he actually on roids? he looks natty just lean
>>74778114Yes I’m natural; I’m literally 71kgJust dehydrated and angle frauding a bit in the second
>>74778122whatd you do to achieve that weight? did you ever fast?
>>74778126Yes, but I’m naturally a lanky guyMost I’ve ever weighed was 79kgRight photo is taken after a two day fast
>>74775846>and most guys won't look too impressive at this point,Brother go outside and touch grass, I am literally 5'7 180lbs by /fit/'s standards I would literally be a DYEL manlet. I have ALWAYS gotten compliments on my physique WITH clothes. My arms hug my medium shirt sleeves, chest pops a bit and I have a nice "V shape" I've been told. My ex was obsessed with kissing my Adonis belt and I am like 22-25% bodyfat.WHO are you trying to impress bro? unless you are literally trying to compete you can get a fantastic look by being natural. Don't worry about /fit/ don't worry about the social media algo and just go walk around a mall or smth... the majority of dudes look like they have never stepped in a gym. 2 years of working out natty and you will be noticed by regular people. If you trying to impress /fit/ ppl and online people then yeah u need gear but at that point regular people don't even find it attractive and they will think you are weird.
>>74776167It really is pathetic how mentally unwell they are
>>74778221these people will blame anything but themselves on why they're failed as a man
>>74778287why would anyone blame themselves if they lifted hard, ate well and the muscles weren't growing, presumably because for most people it's almost impossible to build mass after a few years of lifting? not their fault they didn't get outlier genetics and they're kinda disappointed
>>74778425The softcap is where it gets too hard for you personally to gain any more muscle. The actual cap is 25ffmi. If you can't get there then you could lift harder. Genetics determine how good you look when you get there and whether or not you're hard enough to do it. They don't determine whether your body will adapt to resistance (it just will).
>>74778425I said failed as a man. Not failed to look like an Instagramer on steroids as a natty
>>74775846Thats not correct according to physiology. You dont know what you are talking about.So blow it out your ass, you fucking loser
>>74775911"Science based" lifters once again noceboing themselves into blackpilled holes.
>>7477791810 years of natural lifting, i weighed just 79.5 kg at the end of the cut (last friday) and 82 kg after retaining some of the water before this pic at 183 cm. I look shredded without shirt and still pretty athletic with clothes on. 90% of my gains were in first 3 years but there is still some progress after those years as well. I wish i could be as strong as i am on bulk but there’s definitely some pleasure in progressing without steroids, i would compare it to tuning naturally aspirated car vs turbo car.
>>74778834For comparison, some photo i found with shirt on
>>74778872>>74778834You look great dude, mirin
>>74777923>this is an impressive 'sique on /fit/board's gone
>>74778221You're responding to some guy who doesn't even lift who posts these threads every day
>>74779643And yet the only two guys who posted actual lean physiques ITT are nattiesVery telling, also you’re fat
>>74778834Looks good! It's encouraging to people to see what can be done just by pushing yourself to lift natty for years instead of despairing or looking for some magical key or cure.
>>74779697yes he's leanhe's also smallI literally have no idea what point you're trying to make
>>74775846>I'm not a roidtranny demoralizer>butKill yourself lol Faggot
>>74779553>>74779786Thanks fellas>>74779789There’s big and then there’s body dismorphia big, who are you trying to impress? People online? Because people that i interact with (irl) usually ask me about lifting when they meet me, its the first thing they notice about me. You dont need to have 120 kg of muscle to be big, unless your vision of big is bodybuilding competitors. Also i think vast majority of people who look like shit natural, look like shit on steroids as well. I see them all the time in gym.
>>74775846I put like 70lbs on my bench since late december and I just found out how to get a chest pump like 2.5 months ago.
>>74775846There's no softcap.>>74775911Bad routines.>forearmsdo wrist rollers>>74777918>you'll still look dyel wearing clothesI've given up on buying a fitting jacket or shirt off the rack because either my chest/shoulders/arms don't fit and I literally cannot get it on or it bags up around my waist due to being like XL or whatever. Stretchy shirts just end up looking preposterous.
>>74777923being this low bf% is unhealthyalso, you look no different from other men wearing a shirt
>>74775846Nah, what you're describing is the autistic "I jump programs based on my own pseudoscientific concepts every month and for some reason I can't seem to make progress even though I don't stick to anything long enough to see if it works" mindset.I made my best gains in my early 40s and got to my lowest bf % because I found a plan that worked well (but slowly) and spent a year on it before moving on. And I did it intelligently, not constantly changing the plan every other week because I felt it "needed tweaking" - you have to realize, none of you are coaches and experts, so you have to trust people that actually ARE the experts and give their shit enough time to work.I'm 50 now, and while I fucked up in the past few years by drinking too much and adding about 20 lbs. of fat, I know that soon I'll change gears, strip it off, and look great again by next Spring.If you already admit defeat, OP, you'll never succeed.
>>74777923>>74778834>>74778872You're obviously a roidtranny. Go take your fat burners and other shit more instead of giving kids body dysmorphia, tranny.
>>74778834Brother you look amazing, I hope I can accomplish that.
IT IS A RELATIVE SCALE NOT AN ABSOLUTE ONE.THE AVERAGE PERSON IS BOTH OVERWEIGHT AND SEDENTARYHAVING ANY MUSCLE AND NORMAL BODY FAT WILL SET YOU APARTIt’s similar to how cheerleaders don’t typically have impressive physiques at a glance but still look amazing compared to the average female. STOP COMPARING YOURSELF TO BODY BUILDERS
>>74778834>vascularity, big shoulders, big traps, the usual roider red skin due to high pressureI think you're a undercover roider trying to meme natties into thinking this is achievable
>>74780949you're beyond all help if you think that anon has a big physique. go lift some heavy weight and try eating enough to fuel recovery, you'll be surprised what you can achieve in a year.
>>74781024It's the unnatural Zyzz-like leanness that gives it away. You can't achieve that without roidtrannying.
>>74780949I always had big delts and high insertion traps that look big, i am not red nor i have high blood pressure, i am just tan cause i am on beach every day, and camera/light made me look redish.. but you dont have to believe me and undercover roider cracked me up nicely so thanks for that
>>74781415>looks like Zyzz>I'm not a roider lolDie nigger
>>74775911>its the same story when you mention how certain muscles (such as calves and forearms) are 99% genetics and just don't respond to exercise and can be increased by maybe 1% by effort that you might aswell put somewhere else.I never seen a fatty with small calvesyou are just a retard that trains every muscle group 3x12 without thinking about slow twitch and fast twitch muscle fibers
>>74778114I was just shitposting
>>74780106I mean this thread is about bodybuilding.I'm not saying you look bad, but you said yourself you're 71kg - anyone with a casual interest in lifting and isn't a manlet should look like that at 71kg.the fact that the people responding to you are questioning your natty status shows the state of this board - that's my point.
