>>75449669
You look good to me, keep lifting big brother

>>75449669
post diet and routine

>>75449675
You look good. It's a slow process.
I also think you a) have body dysmorphia and b) I don't think it's the vast majority, I think you just look past most of the gym goers and you attention is grabbed by the dozen or so impressive physiques.
Keep lifting and stop being result orientated and go because you enjoy going and appreciate the small amounts of progress you see

>>75449669
You look good bro that seems like normal progress. Keep it up.

>>75449669
That's pretty impressive progress i would say.

>>75449669
This is what happens when you go to the gym and just dick around for 2 years

Let me ask you retards a simple question: who's going to be bigger, on average:
1) the guy who can bench 205 for 1 rep
or
2) the guy who can bench 205 for 3 sets of 8?

The guy who can bench 205 for 3 sets of 8 has a 275lb-ish 1 rep max. A 275lb bench is achievable in 2 years if you run several strength programs. You idiots go into the gym and do your little 12 rep sets and, 2 years later, arent benching 275. You arent squatting 315 for reps. You arent deadlift 4pl8 for reps. You've barely gained any size and you are basically just as weak as you are when you first started

Ive been going to the gym for over 10 years. I've seen it with my own eyes. The guys who stay the same size do the same retarded "hypertrophy" exercises everyday and the 10% of guys who actually grow start their workouts benching, squatting, deadlifting, rowing and OHPing for low rep, heavy sets and then finish their workouts with 8-12 rep sets.

Thank you for the compliments and encouragement! I used to suffer from social phobia before starting going to the gym, and I have no sports background, so I'm really starting from scratch, both in terms of strength and overall understanding of how lifting works, but I really enjoy learning. Here's my routine below (sorry if the name of some exercises sounds strange, I'm not a native English speaker):

Day 1 Chest & Biceps:

Pec fly: 4x6-8
Dips (with ballast): 4x6-10
Chest press: 3x6-10
Cable cross-over: 4x15
Inclined curl: 3x12
EZ bar curls: 3x8-10
Dumbbell curls: 3x10

Day 2 Lower Body 1:

Lying leg curl: 3x8-12
Leg extensions: 3x10-15
Squats: 4x6-8
Leg press: 3x8-10
Weighted back hyperextensions: 4x8-12
Crunches: 4*AMRAP

Day 3 Rest

Day 4 Shoulders & Triceps:

Close-grip bench press (Smith Machine): 4x10
Standing military press: 3x6-10
Dips (with ballast): 4x12
Shoulder press: 3x8-10
Lateral raises: 3x10-15
V-bar tricep pushdown: 3x8-12

Day 5 Back (with 1 exercise for Chest and Biceps as a "reminder")

Pronated grip pull-ups: 4x10
Pronated grip lat pulldown: 4x12
Rowing bar: 4x10
Diverging seated row: 3x12
Hammer curls: 4x12
Chest press: 3x10

Day 6 Lower Body 2:

Lying leg curl: 3x12
Leg extensions: 3x15
Walking lunges with dumbbells: 4x10
Leg press machine: 3x12 + Calf raises: 3x15
Weighted back hyperextensions: 3x12
Crunches: 4*AMRAP

>>75449807
Well, from what I've understood you guys in the US are very much into strength programs when someone starts hitting the gym. I'm from France and that's not at all what we suggest to beginners.

>>75449842
And look how well that's worked out for you

>>75449842
You can safely ignore what this guy said he's a fatass whos never seen his abs

>>75449853
What seems to workout for people is hitting the gym with a better background in sports than me lol, they don't track their reps or calories as much as I do (from what I see, but maybe I'm underestimating others' dedication)

>>75449842
Hey ma grenouille
I think that we don't recommand strength training as much since 3-4 years, the all Starting strength meme and the obsession around getting stronger has greatly diminished
Now if you look at the litterature, the studies (Eric Helms, Mike Israetel etc) you clearly realize that no, just adding weights on the bar is not enough to build muscle and Helms clearly stated getting stronger is the result of getting more muscular but it is not the main factor behind muscle grote
You should read Principles of Hypertrophy Training by Israetel or The muscle and strength pyramid from Helms
Bon courage

>>75449871
So what are the important factors? I've been told that the only index you have to track is whether or not you make progress on your exercises. Some people agree or disagree on other factors that may be important, such as mind-muscle connection/feeling your muscles when you do an exercise, and yes on that factor I'm very late because I almost feel nothing when I train.

you should try steroid
worst thing that can happen is if you do a 2nd cycle but its so much more fun

>>75449881
I think that using something like the Muscle Pyramid is quite useful if you want to just know on what you should focus
>1. Do a training that you like and that you can do regularly, even if it's not the most optimized, your ability to enjoy and sustain it is infinitly better than doing something more optimal but less sustenable

>2. Intenssity and volume. It's not complicated : DO 10-20 sets per muscle per week (you won't die or make 0 gains if you do a bit less), with around 1-3 reps in reserve for each set, but don't forget to sometimes test your strength by doing the maximum amount of reps on an exersise to be sure that you are really at 1-3 Reps in reserve
>3. Periodization and progression. It's a subject with many variations, personally i just recommand a double progression, for instance
>You do a set of incline press at 3x8-12 reps at 60 kg
>If during your first set you can do 12 reps next time you just increase the weight to again be around 8-12 reps (it can works for whatever range you choose)
>4. Exersise selection : It's simple : Do the exersises that you like and where you feel good, for bodybuilding no single exersise is absolutly essential
>5. Reps speed : Recent studies showed that there was no difference in term of muscle grote between a set with a 9 secs excentric and concentric and a set of 4 secs excentric or concentric. Simply do your reps with a good enough tempo, control the weight, you can also play a bit with the tempo to change your intenssity, for instance doing a really slow excentric on the Latteral raise with a lower weight
Fuck it was quite long, bonne nuit Anon

>>75449855
>you have to be fat to bench 275
Congrats on outing yourself out as some skinnyfat DYEL and also congrats on exclaiming your insecurity i.e. "reee people who are remotely strong make me mad for not other reason than they're stronger than me!"

>>75449863
The only time you should be "tracking your reps" is when running a strength program. Only some DYEL retard would seriously be tracking his "4 sets of 12" on literally whatever. If you're training for hypertrophy, you pick a weight that you will fail at 8-15 reps. Its not that complicated. You dont need some faggy journal. You lift until failure and make sure that fail point is between 8-12 reps. Wow, what a concept

>>75449950
>You lift until failure and make sure that fail point is between 8-12 reps

Already what I'm doing, but apparently that's not enough, because sometimes you just stop making progress you don't know why

>>75449960
Because youve been doing the exact same or close to the exact same amount of weight for the last 2 years. Answer the question:

who's going to be bigger, on average:
1) the guy who can bench 205 for 1 rep
or
2) the guy who can bench 205 for 3 sets of 8?

>>75449973
No, I've increased the weights on all the exercises, I know that progressive overload is a basic thing to grasp when you start lifting

>>75449973
Thats not an answer to his questions dumbass, whos gonna be stronger the guy who is stronger or the guy who is weaker stfu

>>75449978
Based on this response, I presume you know the guy who benches more is going to be bigger.

What's your bench? Like 205lb for 1? Maybe 225lb on your best day bouncing the bar off your chest? Whats your ATG, paused squat? Also like 225lbs on your best day? (Honestly I doubt you squat). Your barbell row is, what? 135lbs for 8?

Youve had 2 years to train and your body is a direct reflection of your physical weakness. This is why I dont help you 4chan retards. You ask for advice and when given it you rebel against it. Youre all so retarded its unreal

"ive been doing this for 2 years and it doesnt work, help!"
Ok try this thing
"Noooo I think my problem is I didnt kick around a ball in high school"

Absolute retards.

Your body is a direct reflection of your physical weakness. Read that again and again and again. Want to get bigger? Get stronger.

>>75450024
Bench press is a bad example because I've always been terrible at this exercise: I started with the empty bar, 40kg in two months, first plateau, started bulking, 50kg in 5 months, second plateau until 9 months, 60kg after a year of lifting and 65kg after a year and a half. I decided to gave up.

>>75449669
Anon... the average gym goer looks like shit. You're looking fine

>>75450044
>The average gym goer looks like shit

Really, I don't know if gym populations are different in the US, but in my gym most guys mog me

>>75449822
Youre already past your easy noob gains which is why such a bad program isn't working anymore.
Day 1 is the worst.
Why in gods name are you doing THREE different types of curls in one day?
Do ONE type of curl. Three sets are enough, do 5 if you feel you need the volume.
If you want to have variation, just keep doing incline curls until you start stalling, and then swap them for ez bar curls and so on.
Day 2:
Youre simply not going to have enough energy to do all of these exercises. Either squats or leg presses have to go. Or do leg press one week and squat the other week. You should also definitely do the leg extensions AFTER your squats/leg presses otherwise youre just going to fuck the more important exercise.

You know what just in general youre doing 6 days a week with way too many exercises and way too many sets. IF you are actually going hard there is zero way youre ever going to recover from this. And if you are recovering from this, youre either a. working out like a pussy, or b. just barely working out hard enough to where youre barely recovering, but not hard enough to actually make any progress.

>>75450044
You're just shorter than average, whats your height?

>>75450054
I agree with this

OP theres no way you can go hard while training 6/7 days

>>75450046
I live in Brazil and hit the gym on the evening when it's full. 50% of people are dyels that don't lookike they lift. All the rest are skinny people, fat people, and some few guys that are big and muscular as fuck but also have really high bodyfat. Guys that are big and lean are a rare breed.

>>75450068
Skinny people don't go on the area with free weights and benches, they stay in the cardio area or sometimes use machines

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>>75450032
>Bench press is a bad example because I've always been terrible at this exercise
Or, hear me out, maybe youre training like a retard.

Idk why im even wasting my time - youre not going to do it. But just for shits and giggles, save this image and, when you're feeling like actually making some gains, run this program. Its 3 fucking weeks. THREE WEEKS. If you cannot follow a 3 week program then it never even began for you

Test your 1rm (and I mean actually test it, dont assume its still 65kg) and then spend 3 weeks only bench pressing 4 days a week. Once again, if you cannot dedicate a mere 3 weeks to trying something new, there is nothing anyone can do for you

The % is the percentage of your 1rm i.e. Week 1 day 1 would be 6 sets of 6 reps of 45.5kg (assuming your 1rm is 65kg), week 1 day 2 would be 7 sets of 5 reps of 49kg. So on and so forth. You bench Mon, Wed. Fri. Saturday and only bench.

If you complete this program, you will EASILY add 10kg to your bench in under a month - more than youve added in almost a year.

>>75450073
Are you serious? Have you never seen teenage zoomers at the gym? They're all twigs trying to get big

>>75450032

This is in fact a perfect example and you proved his point. Like you I used to not be able to feel much mind-muscle connection. This went away when I was within about 10kg of hitting 1/2/3/4. If you're hitting plateaus and can't progress, it's because you haven't done a program designed to progress strength. Try an actual strength program, because it sounds like the one thing you haven't tried.

>>75450054
>Why in gods name are you doing THREE different types of curls in one day?
what non-curl exercise for hitting the biceps?

Is more than 1 type of curls too much? The thing is, my biceps appear to be really stubborn. No matter what I do, unless I do at least 2 exercises I barely feel any pump and 30 minutes after workout it's as if i didn't do anything. No soreness, ever. Nothing.
I do ez bar curls and preacher curls. I hit biceps twice in the following program
day1:
chest - here i do horizontal bench 4x10 and incline 4x12, biceps, front delts(ohp) and abs(crunches on the bench with 10kg weight)
d2:
back - pullups, rowing, triceps and abs(same as d1)
d3:
legs - squats, lunges, romanian deadlifts. i rotate these two
d4:
repeat d1
d5:
repeat d2
d6:
repeat d3
day 7 is rest day

>>75450153
you have to do one curl exercice but do it REALLY FUCKING HARD, sounds like you're lifting like a big PUSSY right now

>>75450153
Try doing plate curls. Nothing else came close to giving me a pump as good as that exercise

>>75450164
I do the ez bar curl to failure in the 10-12 range. every time I can do more than 12 reps I add more weight. on first set if I can do 13, the second set i add some weight and do 9 to failure. usually third set I fail around 7-8.

how much harder do I train, what is harder than pushing to failure with proper range of motion and progressively overloading without taking too long breaks? I don't rest for more than 1 min between sets. 1.5 min if especially bad day(not enough sleep, not enough energy)

>>75450173
>Try doing plate curls
will do. i'm willing to try anything to feel like I'm doing something.

>>75450153

You definitely don't need more than 2 types of bicep exercises. I do 2, 1 for each muscle head. Arms respond well to frequent training, if you want to grow them faster you should probably train them 3 times a week.

>>75450153
You’re entire approach to lifting is backwards. You should be able to tell even from your own description what your doing isn’t working. Why the fuck do you even give a fuck about „the pump“? Is it making you bigger? Is it making you stronger? Apparently not. If you’re trying to hit all angles of your biceps but your biceps are still stubborn, clearly that solution isn’t working either.

>>75450211
any suggestions on fitting 3 day arms workout in my program? I tried coming up with something but whatever I do I can't make it work.

>>75450203
If you’re already going to failure on your first bicep exercise, what exactly is the point of the second one? There won’t be any juice left to squeeze. You could skip it and literally nothing will change except that you saved time and focus for other exercises.

>>75450230
So with your logic one shouldn't do a routine where you target the same muscle twice in a session? Split routines are to be banned?

>>75450263
This retard doesn't know about resting periods apparently

>>75450088
They are not that big but they are definitely bigger than me for the majority, I'm not saying ALL of them look huge, I'm saying that I'm at the bottom part of the "level range" if you prefer

>>75450135
So you started to feel your chest during chest exercises when you reached significant strength (like advanced levels) on chest exercises? I'm trying to understand.

>>75450219

Easy.
Day 1: 5 sets total. Split them between 2 exercises, rotate the frequency. Say 3 sets ez bar curls, and 2 incline. Go up to 15 reps for the first set.

Day 4: see above.

Day 6: add to the rest. Drop the walking lunges, these do nothing. You should probably drop the calf raises too, just do some light jogging and you'll get the same effect.

>>75450296
OP here, I posted my routine above. I also struggle to find a way to train my arms effectively, I'm not sure doing them after chest is good. I always have the feeling I neglect them when I do that.

>>75450296
I'll try that, thank you.
>>75450213
so pump doesn't matter, i should do less exercises and stick to it no matter the pump?
also why did you swap your and you're like that man this bothers me so much

>>75450292
This is not advanced levels, dude. It really isn't. But yes, I did not feel bench press in my chest until hitting about 90kg bench. Proprioception is something some are naturally better at than others, but its also a learnable skill. Your body learns to operate itself in response to stimulus. The greater the stimulus, the better the learning. More weight makes it easier to feel what you are doing.
>>75450310
I'm not that guy, I'm the guy who recommended 3 days for arms, but pump is honestly overrated. It's good, but it's not everything.
>Pick less exercises
No, if you count what I've suggested above, you are in fact doing 15 sets over the week instead of 10 you were at before.

>>75450349
For me 90kg is already advanced lol, I see that performance as unattainable for me!

>>75450349
3 times a week like you suggested 5 sets each, 15 reps on the first set. got it. will try this week. thank you.

you look good my man just keep going, you're comparing yourself to non-natties and people who've lifted for 7+ years when you should be comparing pic a to pic b and noticing your arms are much more swole

>>75450079
Nta I take it you don't agree with Mike Mentzer's dogma of 1 max out set per lift? Despite progressive overload?

>>75450079
Bench ONLY ? no other exercises at all ?

>>75450068
>I live in Brazil
I'm sorry

>>75450603
Correct. Its just for 3 weeks. If you cant handle 3 weeks of structured lifting then just give up lifting altogether. The actual smolov program was developed for squats and is 13 weeks of squats only 4 times a week. Now THAT is a tough program

more weight and more reps

>>75450310
I'm saying that YOU are saying what youre doing isn't working. So youre doing pump work but its not doing what you want. So why would you keep doing something thats clearly not working?
Because some DYELs on /fit/ told you being strong is overrated and "powershitter cope"?

>>75449669
You look natty and healthy. Just cut to get muscle definition.

>>75452111
>Because some DYELs on /fit/ told you being strong is overrated and "powershitter cope"?
no. nobody on /fit/ told me anything. it's the reason why I'm asking.
>So why would you keep doing something thats clearly not working?
i'm asking what else to do exactly because what i'm doing right now is not working and I don't intend to keep doing it. why are you making stuff up and putting words in my mouth? are you autistic or what?

>>75449669
In 2 years you should have been able to run SS to intermediate/advanced and then jumped into a repeating 3day(6 day) split

You clearly did nor do this
Wtf were you doing all this time

>>75452657
What is SS?

>>75449669
Bulk

>>75452737
I'm already 72kg for 176cm, isn't it enough?

>>75452751
Lol ignore the retard, he wants to turn you into a fat fuck power shitter.

>>75452736
starting strength

>>75452827
As I said, in France it is not common at all to start lifting by a strength routine

Body dysmorphia bro you are muscular enough that the benefits no longer come. Shift focus to something else like making money

>>75452834
In France it's also customary to lick Imrahim's cum from wifey's cunt so I don't really give a shit what happens there desu. You face so many imminent economic and societal threats it makes the UK look like a nice place.
Shove it.

>>75452751
definitely should bulk bro. no offence but you're a victim height, i'd recommend going for a stocky look and getting STRONG.

your body type on your right pic only works if you're tall, I'm sorry. the process you've made is good though, it's a great start.

>>75452868
"You're a victim height" means I'm short?

>>75452880
Yeah but either way just carry weapons, bulking to 200lbs as a natty manlet will just give you an unhealthy waist

>>75453242
So what would you suggest?

>>75449669
That's solid progress brother

>>75453664
Do you really believe in what you're saying? If I am at gym I don't look like I lift, my progress is not tremendous compared to others

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You look pretty good but I’m guessing you don’t track macros or lift until failure. This is my <2 years progress as a natural 6’2 34yr old

>>75449669
what are u on about u look good. lose some fat and go live ur life

>>75455698
I track macros since May 2024, I was just tracking calories before that, without tracking proteins

>>75455698
on gear mr. troon

>>75455698
>rosy red clavicle area
nigga thought we wouldn't notice lmao

>>75449669
Make sure you eat enough.
That was a huge problem for me as I was an ex-fatty. I was scared to eat more.

this isnt op btw
pics been spammed everywhere since 2019

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>>75456590
I've noticed this too. Somebody has been using stolen pics to make threads and larp. Larping as progressanon, "mog a door" guy, gutsanon back in September, probably pearanon and the fat black guy. Likely many others as well. Why? Is this kekkepow?

>>75456590
It's really me lol, I've just been the one spamming. And you may be mixing up with another similar picture, the left-hand side picture dates back to from August 2022 before I started lifting

>>75450230
That's not true in bro science or real science if it's a straight set. 2 is just better than 1.

>>75449669
looks like you've made good progress. This is where it stalls out. You're never gonna look like a bodybuilder without gear tho.

>>75455698
Why lie about being natty on a forum dedicated to lifters who lift and spend their free time watching natty or not videos

>>75455698
This. you should be counting your macros and lifting to failure and roiding.

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>>75455698
>Natural? I've seen mr olympia competitors walking on stage sub 0 body fat more natural than this!
>I've seen zoomers benching 315 on the incline more natural than this!
>I've seen grannies with clits the size of the fucking empire state building more natural than this!
>Anyway, let's rep those fucking weights.

>>75456967
I'm already counting my macros and lifting to failure.

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>>75449807
>>75449973
>>75450024
Powershitter

>>75458983
So I shouldn't listen to him?

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>>75456434
>>75456485
>>75456918
>>75456967
Thanks for the ego boost! But it’s shitty that you're discouraging others to think you need to be on roids to look like this.

>>75460231
OP here, I never said you were roided! Maybe we just have different starting points/genetics

>>75449807
2), not because he's lifting heavier weight but because he's been lifting way longer to reach that point.

you're fine, i've been lifting for 5 and i'm still considered dyel by /fit/ standards lmao

>>75449669
EAT MORE FOOD GOD DAMNIT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11V7e4qNie8&t=33s

>>75461399
Post picture, I don't believe you

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>>75461426
sure, i used to post sometimes on current body threads until i got a job last year and became a daily smoker and huge alcoholic during weekends

>>75449669
what kind of toilet is that bro

>>75461454
You clearly look like you lift, I don't know what you're talking about

>>75460231
what program(s) did you run?

>>75461403
Roid user tells natty people how to eat.
If a natty goes beyond 500 calorie surplus, they might put on more muscle but they're also just going to put on a ton of fat which you'll need to spend time cutting off.
Stick to the 500 calorie surplus natties.

>>75461477
many even say that 300 is enough

>>75461471
not by the standards here it seems lmao

>>75461523
Who said that you look DYEL? Did you post this picture or others?

>>75461527
i posted the picture, i've been called dyel on cbt threads many times. are you the op? because you also look like you lift, but most people here won't acknowledge that unless you're on roids

>>75461550
Yes I'm the OP, but on the right-hand side of the picture I am pumped, so I don't look like that on a regular basis

>>75461550
you dont look like you lift btw

>>75461474
I just did chest, back, arm, legs, repeat. Minimal rest days but I probably could have used more. Repped to failure for 99% of sets. Basically just followed Sam Sulek unironically and never drank, good sleep and eating in a surplus.

>>75461690
Yes he does

Bitch you look good stop having body dysmorphia. I swear the people on this board have the same external validation needs as women.

>>75463426
I've done this thread with the exact same before/after picture several times and people were mostly saying that my progress was almost non-existent, especially for such a big timeframe as 2 years

>>75463430
If this is non existent progress then it's up to those people who say this to show us what they mean by legit progress.

>>75449669
You made progress and Look fit, stop bitching and continue lifting
>verification not required

>>75464797
And they usually do that, and their before/after picture shows a more striking difference, they SKYROCKET

>>75465107
No they don't, they're grifting fat fucks like 80% of posters on fit

>>75465164
>No they don't, they're grifting fat fucks like 80% of posters on fit

So progress from fat to fit is more impressive?

>>75464816
Disagree

>>75449807
Okay, I'll shoot. I have a question. After a few years of lifting, I am able to finally press 2pl8s. But, I can only do 1. How do I increase the amount of reps? Do I simply do a drop set of a lighter weight?

>>75464797
His progress isn't nonexistent, he just got noob gains and now hes currently doing a dogshit program and will be perpetually stuck at his level.

>>75468938
Why is it a dogshit program?

>>75468913
There are thousands of ways to do that and drop sets are one. Bench hard twice a week and you'll get there.

>>75449669
Are you sore after every workout?
If the answer is no then you need to make serious changes to your training.

>>75471191
I'm never sore after a workout, I only feel DOMS when I resume training after some days off

>>75471404
Yes, I can tell from your physique that you do not train hard enough to be sore.
Train harder, or just go find another hobby.

>>75469924
This is his program>75450153
As of his own admission, he's not satisfied with the results. But hes working out 6 days a week. If youre doing a 6 day program and youre not getting results its because you simply don't know what the fuck you are doing and should be doing a cookie cutter 3 day a week program, not some dumb bullshit where youre doing 3 different types of BICEP curls in one day.
This is just a very high level critique that applies to all programs. If your upping the frequency and your not gaining youre doing things insanely wrong.

>>75471466
Some people say it is normal not to feel sore when you are used to working out.

>>75471748
I'm working out 5 days a week, not 6. And what do you suggest instead of the 3 biceps curls? I struggle to find satisfying biceps exercises

>>75472196
And those people never grow past the intermediate level.

>>75473278
So I should have DOMS after each workout?

Just roid

>>75475132
No I won't

>>75460231
you never denied being on gear though lol

>>75475140
Ok