Have you noticed how every decade there's a new retard in town? during the 2000's it was SS and Rippetoe, during the 2010's it was the science guys, now it's the Mentzerfags.
>>75585655Yes. I'm old enough to remember the 90's where it was Stuart McRobert (and to some degree Mentzer again) that dyels swore knew best.
I think the SS zealots are worse than the Mentzer guys but I'm not above having my mind changed on that. With Mentzer, It's a guy who was a bodybuilder with bodybuilding goals, with advice about bodybuilding proliferated to guys trying to build their bodies. With SS, it's a fatass cuck trying to sell his general strength and his 'fahves' to everybody regardless of whether they're general strength people or not. It's the arrogance of believing your way is not only right but also that it breaks through the natural divide of people having different goals. Say what you will about Mentzer but he didn't spend a lot of time trying to get powerlifters to do his routine
>>75585953SS is literally fine as babbys first program though, so are any of the other similar programs, and trying to do a bodybuilding program to bring up lagging bodyparts before youre even big and strong enough to squat 3 plates is laughable>nooo you have to do le heckin 8-12rep to bodybuild!>you'll develop le weak points in the 3-4 months youre running SS!lol, lmao
>>75586050There are a ton of aesthetic looking guys that can't squat anywhere close to 3pl8. You're being retarded and parroting SS propaganda.
>>75586060Yeah, and they're all on gear, meaning literally anything they do works.
>>75586102Cope and more regurgitated SS horseshit
>>75586050>SS is literally fine as babbys first programIt's not. It's quite lacking and values training for power lifting more than it does just covering all bases in a productive and time-efficient manner for beginners. Moreover, some combination of other exercises like Leg Press + Machine Press + Reverse grip pull downs would be more in lines with the goal of generalize strength training and the general goals of most lifters if we were to prescribe them with a minimalist program.Second, there is no reason why someone would need to squat and deadlift three days a week or to even pretend that deadlift is adequate for the back, biceps, and foreams as Rippetoe does. The Power Clean is all hip drive and does very little for arms. The only time you really get to train the arms other than triceps is on his third phase where chin ups are alternated with deadlift. Finally he teaches the standard Olympic lifting accessory style of overhead press which is notorious for leaving at least 2/3 of the mass of the deltoids untrained. If he were to teach a version of the shoulder press that is in the scapular plane rather than in the sagittal plane, his trainees would be much better off. Third, arguably for a beginner in general for any subject, it would be best to start them out with less technical motions rather than the more technical motions like Squat or Deadlift. Moreover, Squat and Deadlift have issues related to bodily proportions whereas a motion like leg press, a linear hacksquat, and a leg curl machine effectively remove many of the technical issues related Squat and Deadlift while training the same muscle groups which would make them better motions for a beginner.
>>75586273What would you recommend then? I've been on SS 5X5 for awhile now. Was thinking about switching to Greyskull once I find an informative link.
>>75586495Full body twice per week. Two workoutsA:>Pull downs>Chest Press>Curls>Push downs with a straight bar>Shrugs>Wrist Curls>Gripper>Leg Press, Hack squat machine, Front squats on a wedge as a barbell alternative, or split squats>Leg Curls>Calf Raises [standing or donkey--do not do seated; it's is a trap]B:>Dumbbell Shoulder Press>Barbell, Dumbbell, or cable rows>Lateral Raises>Curls>Dips>Wrist Curls>Gripper>Good mornings, RDL [you have to work on the technique for this one, shoulders back, leg straight; use straps when you need to use heavy weight], or hyperextensions>Leg Extension>Calf Raises [standing or donkey--do not do seated; it's is a trap]Should take an hour to an hour and a half depending on how many sets you do. The exercises are ordered to allow for minimum rest time between exercises so you only need to rest the minimum time needed to catch your breath between exercises. You can reorder exercises and and even superset them to save time. Keep in mind that you should always train legs last as Steve said which is why the leg exercises are at the end.
>>75585831Jack Lalannefag here
>>75586546wat sets and reps do (you) recommend, senpai?
>>75586273>the average american is so awkward and uncoordinated that squatting down or picking a perfectly ergonomic object up off the floor is seen as a technical motionJust add curls to it as mentioned in the book lol
>>75586273i like rip and his old boomer stories and hour long chili recipes but his program is a trap as it is written. by month 2 or 3 i was 1 or 0 RIR for every squat set then blacking out after deadlifting later in the workout. I guess if I was 16 and my dad was chad thundercock it'd work out.
I don't really see the harm in spending less time in the gym and focusing on form rather than poundage or volume, which is essentially the point of HIT. I've tried HIT in the past and I didn't get better or worse results than any other system, however it is time effective so I can see how it would benefit certain types of people.I am just suspicious about the motives of people rag on Mentzer when really he just redpilled a whole bunch of people who were wasting their time training for 3 hours a day because Arnold did.
when I was a beginner I chose brosplit and mogged fucking everyone around since normalfags don't lift at all, when I wanted to use advice of some bodybuilding celebs or youtube fitness trainers1st I checked how they looked2nd I checked if they were consistent with their programms or how were they perdorming the exercisesif someone looks bad then his advice is shitif someone looks big but can't do a proper bicep curl then he's a roider retard
>>75587569this, it's super time effective and reduces the risk of tendonitis, also takes natty recovery capacity into consideration, so it's a great framework, of course it will never be fully acknowledged, because it's actually harmful to the industry
>>75585655you recognize that influenzars are worthless cancer...yet you voluntarily, intentionally made ANOTHER thread about them
yeah, (You)
>>75585953If you want to be big, you should do starting strength firstIf you want to be strong, you should do starting strength firstIf you want to be big AND strong, guess fucking whatLPs are designed to get your body to the point that you can successfully specialize in whatever tf you want You sprint to intermediate on an LP like starting strength and then do whatever Hating rippetoe is on par with hating kids trikes and training wheels It just doesn't make a damn bit of sense
>>75585655Who the fuck are any of those people? Go outside and touch grass you fucking dorks
>>75586050100% this>>75586060They're just lean lmao They'd also have gotten there a lot faster running ss first>>75586273You clearly don't know the program and you also, still, don't understand where "generalized strength" comes fromIt comes from your hormonal output not your bitching out of real lifts.You refusing to do hard things, even for a few months, and then making all these retarded excuses about it is textbook low testHigh testosterone climbs the fucking mountain, it doesn't stop at the bottom and pontificate about climbing mountains is stupid You haven't made anywhere near as much progress as you would have running SS and it's one of the reasons you'll never be quite as good as you could have been
>>75585655What about calisthenicfags
>>75586495Why are you doing 5x5 lmaooooo>>75586546This would be retarded for a beginner
>>75585655it's still majorly science guys though, mentzerfags are incredibly insignificant. it's just a couple of retards inspiring a couple of newfags on figuring out how to get roid jacked without ever going to a gym it's just noticeable cause it's the same 5 pictures of mentzer posted ad nauseam
Mentzor ideology does more good than harm. Teaching new lifters to actually TRY, that they need to go TO FAILURE, is such a huge step that it could be the only thing he says and it'd be worth it. Adding "you need to REST TOO" is also helpful for new lifters who are liable to go every day, burn out and then quit.
>>75586050Fucking moron, you got memed onYou don't have to squat 315 or whatever bozo number before you start just doing regular bodybuilding and getting bigYou don't have to squat and deadlift at all, the rare of injury is just too high and people are starting to realize that
>>75585831The No-faced Stuart McRobert.
>>75585655Id like to see any mentzerfags who actually got good gains lol. what they forget is that mentzer himself didn't even build his body that wayAnd you can't ignore the fact that he had amazing genetics and was on gear - with those genetics and drugs you'll build muscle doing any meme bullshit, doesn't matter how you train when you're a genetic phenom with grams upon grams of drugs in your system>>75586050I agree with this, people forget that it's a BEGINNER program. It's even in the fucking name, STARTING strength. It was never meant to build your dream body, only set you on the right path and build you a good strength base to work from. What kind of aesthetic chest you think you're gonna build when you can't even bench 2 plates for 1 rep?
>>75586060No there aren't. They might squat less than 3pl8 for their work sets but they'll be doing it for 10+reps with control and good depth.
want to look good? do a bro split.
>>75590335>the rare of injury is just too highThe incidence of injury in powersharting is extremely low, even compared to shit like tennis and basketball, and if you cannot squat 315 or pick up a heavy object from the floor without injuring yourself you are a glassback GDE and were never going to make it in the first place.If youre strong and relatively lean as a natty, you'll be aesthetic.
>>75590262post body
