Scientifically speaking, do muscles grow via a "growth mechanism" that gets switched on with high enough intensity? If not exactly, how similar is this to the current scientific understanding?
>>75725222Mentzer's shit works because your muscles grow when recovering, so if they have to recover a lot they wind up growing a lot. I dunno about "growth mechanisms" but the logic is just sound
1 dyel samefagging his own gay thread lmao
>>75725222Mentzer's core idea was right, but I'm not sure if you actually need to go to failure to activate it. Also, there's the possibility that you need to "push" the buttom multiple times, for a stronger response. That might be why one set is not enough, that you actually need to take 10-20 sets per week to a close proximity to failure.
>>75725222It's a series of growth mechanisms. A system of systems. Just like the rest of the human animal.
>>75725993>close proximity to failure.Implying the effective reps model. Implying that the closer you go, the more times you press the button meaning the fewer sets you need. It's quite funny how the bro scientists such as yourself end up having to capitulate one step at a time to the effective reps model yet arbitrarily still pull> 10-20 sets per weekout of your ass like its gospel.
>>75725222Hoenstly? We don't know.
>>75726124i think going to failure exhausts you way more than mass volume exhausts you, so Mike was wrong about that. Better to go the volume way
>>75726134>i think going to failure exhausts you way moreThat exhaustion lasts at best until you go to sleep at night and wake up the next day given you are getting enough sleep. Meanwhile the real difference over the week is just that the muscle, having actually been pushed to its limits just takes a few days longer to get back to or exceed its prior force production potential. Unless you are a professional athlete who has an event/game the next day, training to failure will not affect your normal life other than perhaps being particularly sore if you're not used to working out. >Better to go the volume wayIf you're a normal person who has a job, a family, and other things to do, training to failure with an abbreviated and less frequent workouts is far superior since it is much more time efficient. If you're the 1/1,000,000 or so people who makes a living from playing some sport that requires a high intensity of effort and that sport's in season or you're going through a period of a lot of practice, then maybe you can justify spending hours in the gym to get that 20 sets in.
>>75725222I don't know but when I do two days mentzer style where I hit 1 set to failure then do a drop set for 4 or maybe 5 exercises I got my best gains. So I'll just keep doing that. I burned myself out on the high volume approach and stagnated for almost 2 years. But I also have 3 calisthenics days because it feels more like aerobic exercises and it's fun.
>>75725339His shit worked because he was on juice. He also trained with high intensity, several times a week. Taking a few quotes out of context about rest and spamming MIKE SAYS REST is a fucking meme that barely even applies if you're natty.
If you actually watch his seminars, his logic actually makes a lot of sense>We don't know at what fatigue point optimal muscle growth occurs >61%? 74%? 85%? 90? >Better safe than sorry and go all the way to muscle faillure, that way, no matter what, you are going to be hitting the perfect spot
>>75727148I'm not on juice, never have been or will be. I'm over middle age (32) and the one set shit worked like nothing ever has before, and not just by a little bit but 2-4x the results both increasing strength quicker and gaining mass quicker. I went up shirt and pant sizes very quickly. The theory is, and it's not really a theory because the science has always said this, that your nuscle grow through protein synthesis. You trigger them through overload to start synthesizing more protein to grow more new fibers. Microtears are a meme, you only grow from that at the very beginning stages where you're still getting very bad DOMS. That's the microtears repairing, and once the existing fibers are conditioned you shouldn't be focused on microtear conditioning anymore. That just saps protein away from the real growth which is adding new myofibrils/fibers. Recovery is key and tearing the shit out of your muscles just hinders recovery and leaves you with less protein to be used to build new muscle fibers.
>>75725222It doesn't switch on or off. In all reps withing 5 of failure mechanosensors on muscles fibers send out mtor in response to mechanical tension on the fibers themselves which peaks during reps. Otherwise weighted isometrics and stretching would be all it would take.Where mentzer is wrong is that this hypertrophy process has a dose dependant relationship with this mtor release. So yes more sets more gains up to a certain point which comes pretty quick usually around 4 to 6 sets for a group per 3-5. The interval and number of actual sets are still going to be largely genetic since everything between mtor and growth is other chemicals levels.
>>75725222nobody knows why or how muscles grow
>>75727709One of my favorite parts of taking Human Physiology was asking the professor this and then him talking for like 20 minutes just to sum it up by saying that basically we just don’t actually know.
>>75728039Your professor needs to brush up on his physiology. The "we don't know" answer is either just a tacit admission that the individual just needs to look it up, or, in the case of many exercise "scientists," they are retards. >>75727709We do know why and how muscles grow. We know the physiological mechanismshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MechanoreceptorThe only debate is the best way to get them to grow. The only things that have been really thrown out are some old ideas that you have to break down a muscle to get growth or other things along those lines.
>>75726124well formulated lmaomy thoughts exactly
>>75725222Carb depletion prevents protein synthesis no matter the test levels by a huge%, if you aren't lifting heavy enough youre retarded you'll wreck your joints every single workout like this too >grows fasterYou don't get bigger on the 3rd day of rest compared to the 1st unless you're cns is fried.
>>75725339>>75725339For me it's just when the weight feels heavy because I'm fried and session's don't really build muscle being like 20% less weight for the same effort
>>75728395this post is so stupid and dyel I won't even bother explaining
>>75728356He explained like three competing theories and which one he agreed with. He’s one of the few non-retarded scientists I’ve ever met. He was a researcher at UCLA and then CalTech for like 30 years and just teaches undergrad physiology for something to do. He used to tell this especially retarded kid to his face that he’s going to suck at being a doctor and he’d be better off dropping out and getting a job holding a sign on construction sites. Absolutely based dude.
>>75725222yes it's called the motor unit activation and it is very well know biochemically what makes and how a muscle growsgoogle ralph carpinelli
>>75725222It's more like time under tension at a threshold of intensity. In the actual HIT community there's a lot more focus on TUT than there was back in the 70s when Jones was coming up with the stuff. HIT isn't that different from regular bodybuilding training in that regard, it just kinda cuts out a lot of the fluff volume and condenses sets into the more of the reps that actually matter. That's why it's both good and bad; it works and is time-efficient, but it's hard and mentally taxing to do consistently unless you're amped up on meth like Mentzer was.
>>75727160>>We don't know at what fatigue point optimal muscle growth occursexcept if you have enough data aka train for more than 2 months and log your weights/body growth/recovery you DO know when optimal muscle growth happens lmao
>>75729401time under tension is retarded, scientifically proven to increase fatigue exponentially for minimal benefit.only reason to slow down reps is to train your tendons to be able to handle the weight - and you still might get injured if you're lobbing huge amounts of weight relative to muscle size.
