You eat a salmon sandwich at night?

Also, did you exercise from December 2024 to December 2025? I bet the answer is no.

>>75736375
Yes, maybe 2 hours before sleep. 2 levain fried in butter, mayo, onion, salmon, creme fraiche, egg, sometimes avocado
>>75736380
I said one month with 0 gain, not year. I thought "CICO".

CICO is a concept of thermodynamics. Energy cannot be created out of nothing. What happened was your energy use went up and your NEAT went up so your TDEE went up. What exactly is the exercise that you are doing?

>>75736392
Personally, I was suspecting perhaps more energy goes through waste, but my stool are healthier than they've ever been, so that can't be it either, assuming this is something that can happen (literally shitting high kcal stool)
>What exactly is the exercise that you are doing?
The usual PPL. I don't even exercise as much as I used to in the past. Yesterday, I went to do some back, didn't even do rows, and some biceps.
I'm not following a religious workout schedule but I do exercise. I warmed up on the treadmill 5 minutes.

The thing is, I went from eating 1200 kcal at best. Maybe 1500 if I snacked on something unhealthy like chips. I would drink 18 shots of espresso a day, to the point of suffering from hair loss, and both my meals were usually takeout but not always.

I went from that, to counting macros and eating very healthy. I cook and meal prep. I make savory meals with lots of ingredients. I eat two meals a day, still one takeout but the other always home cooked, and I supplement with the high kcal shake and the sandwich.
So from unhealthy 1200 kcal (9-10 takeout a week, snacks at home) to 3000 kcal (3-4 takeout a week, nutritional snacks at home)

I've done this for one month. The exercise is a side thing, I only wanted to gain some of the weight I lost back, but I do exercise 3 times a week, cranking out some reps. 1 month of diet change = 0 kg weight increase.

>>75736409
>1 month of diet change = 0 kg weight increase.
Objective fact, btw. I do feel like I have more energy. I have restless legs and like I just want to go for a run. But I am not gaining any weight

>>75736409
You're being very vague.

>Exercise
What exactly is the layout of your program? Are you making progress?

>Guesstimating takeout calories
Did you actually have an idea or are you pulling numbers out of your ass?

>>75736416
This suggests higher NEAT for sure.

There are other factors like energy availability of food. If you went from eating highly processed garbage to mostly healthy food, the energy is not as available to your body. If you're eating a lot more protein than usual, then you're actually gaining less calories than you think you are due to the energy required to break it down and make it usable compared to carbs and fats.

TL;DR - eat more

>>75736435
Correction, this concept is called Thermic Effect of Food. Couldn't recall it off the top of my head

>>75736366
based on your incoherent writing and the fact that you weigh 67kg as an adult. im going to take a wild guess that the answer is youre retarded.
dont know how to count calories, cant stay consistent, overestimate how much you eat, eat one handful of chips and think "omg ive eaten so much today" when in reality it totaled 2000kcal.

CICOtroons always have a meltdown when you point out the flaws in their pseudoscience.

I've done CICO, Keto, fasting, tried vegan, the whole lot. One thing is very clear; HORMONES matter above all else. Insulin levels. CICO doesn't account for hormones whatsoever, so it is completely flawed and COMPLETELY OBSOLETE.

>>75736392
>muh fermudinamics
First law of thermodynamic is Delta U=Q-W, and it specifically refers to an enclosed thermodynamic system, which humans are not.
>We eat food, MASS, where is mass in that equation you mong?
>How does that mass get converted into heat (calories) by a human?
because we don't, any heat residual from chem interactions is heat lost to entropy, an animal does NOT generate heat for the sale of it in any way.
>inb4 muh atp
not free energy, atp is still a molecule, still mass the process of digesting food is to break down mass into constitual components to use them in whichever way your genes "decide" at any given time, atp production being a fraction of it.
And yes atp is used in a way to be broken down to release energy but that's yet another biochemical process, it's matter interaction so calories "in" will NEVER translate to a set amount of atp.
CICO is fucking bs any way you look at it, so much so that it's better, easier to track and note progress and issues and tinker your intake of food just by tracking mass in, especially considering that companies are allowed a +/- 20% error in stating caloric content, and that calories "out" is next to impossible to calculate as it would include waste, breathing, basal metabolic rate etc.
>>75736366
If you really want to track things down, eat the same meals every day for a month and write down the weight, track your workout progress, and use a mirror and a scale, note how the food makes you perform and feel and then tinker with food quality and quantity.
This is an actual (quasi)scientific approach and will lead to results.
CICO is retarded and a reddit tier attempt to make sense of the old "move more eat less", which doesn't necessarily work 100%, so what happened is fags made other shit up in order to make it work instead of going "huh that actually doesn't work that well".
sorry for blogposting
fuckyou/10 made me reply

Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that best, highest quality posts, use very few words.

>>75736487
youre right but arguing this on here is pointless
cico is like fitcels bible

>>75736487
You don't need to account for anything. If you're taking in less energy than you're using, you will lose weight. If you're taking in more energy than you're using, you will gain weight. What do hormones have to do with it?

>>75736563
People will worship CICO because of the convenience. Reducing the entirety of the complexity of the human metabolism down to a simple math equation saves so much grief. Unfortunately, it's just completely wrong.

>>75736570
>What do hormones have to do with it?
Insulin will prevent your body from being able to access fat reserves for energy. With elevated insulin, if you're not taking in enough energy in the form of glucose, your metabolism will slow to account for this, and you'll possibly even break down muscle mass in order to obtain glucose.

This is why only eating 1000 calories of carb-heavy foods in a day makes you feel tired, irritable and low in energy, but eating only 1000 calories of fat+protein makes you feel fine, or even energetic. Again, speaking from experience.

>insulin prevents me from going outside and walking and maybe even lifting weights
does it also prevent you from thinking? fucking retarded nigger

>>75736638
No, it PHYSIOLOGICALLY prevents your body from converting fat into energy. with elevated insulin even if you engage in exercise you won't be able to burn fat.

>>75736670
works on my body, seek professional help

>be me
>fat my whole life
>not losing weight eating 1500 cals at 6’1 for months
>cicocels on here say it’s my fault and I’m lying
>at wits end
>see doctor. Nothing else to lose
>checks me
>find out I’m not only low t, hypogonadal I’m also insulin resistant
>get on proper meds
>get on a proper diet for my issue
>eat more calories like 2100 a day
>40lbs falls off me in 6 months without much cardio at all
>mfw if I had just listened to cico retards I’d still be a fat depressed mess blaming myself

Yeah. Hormones/ body genetic makeup>> cico
Get fucked

>>75736740
have you tried not being lazy nigger and doing the CO part of CICO? I'm sure your doctor told you to work out.

>>75736435
>What exactly is the layout of your program? Are you making progress?
PPL brother. I do not take exercise seriously, again, I am using CICO to GAIN WEIGHT, not necessarily to body build, just gain some weight.
Program is monday tuesday wednesday, PPL, where I do dumbbell press, shoulder press and triceps pulldowns for push, rows, lats (dumbbell rows or lat pulldowns) and biceps for pull, and bulgarian, leg extensions, hamstring curls and calfs for legs
I don't overdo it but I do get exercise in. 3x8 sets. Normal.

>Guesstimating takeout calories
I underestimate them. I had ramen yesterday, for example, which I count as 500-600 kcal (it is around that range)

>If you're eating a lot more protein than usual
I eat 1,6-2,2g/kg muscle mass in protein. I eat a lot of fat because I want to gain weight. So it includes avocado, coconut oil in shakes, etc

>TL;DR - eat more
I could eat 10000 kcal anon. Problem is I thought it was CICO. I went from 1200 to 2,5x that, and I've gained nothing in a month. CICO is clearly a simplification? Otherwise I would've gained weight.

>>75736495
You write like a woman and think like one.

I've lost 14kg comfortably over 1 year just by tracking what i eat and substracting what my fitness band shows I've spent on workouts (+maintenance). It's consistent with what I'd expect and even OPs image - my deficit was about 500 kcal which would mean I'd lose up to 52 lbs or 23 kg per year. The discrepancy is because OP picture is also averaged out for the median burger fatso while i wasn't even overweight by bmi at the start of the diet.

>>75736580
>If you have diabetes, CICO does not apply
Incredible insight

>>75736776
I lost 11kg since last April and I didn't track anything, I just know that I did cardio and ate less slop.

Calories In
>can only estimate to some degree of accuracy
>doesn't account for food quality or incorrect labels
>doesn't account for thermic effect of protein digestion
>ignores literal poisons in food
Calories Out
>varies wildly day to day based on hormones
>different for each person so everyone vaguely estimates with online calculators
>mouthbreathing fatty retards all assume they burn more calories
>IM GONNA REWARD MYSELF FOR WALKING 2 MILES WITH A COOKIE!

CICO niggers must die. Best diet is a clean one (no processed slop, meat based with pasture raised eggs, raw dairy and organic fruits and maybe some vegetables) and if you want to lose weight you just eat a bit less and exercise a little bit more each day. 2 meals a day and keep it simple so you know you're eating less without measuring a damn thing.

>>75736785
post body

>>75736366
>i'm not gaining weight
eat more
simple as

>>75736745
i was doing 2 hours cardio a day, didnt do shit because i had HORMONAL ISSUES

>>75736802
post legs

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>>75736487
Exactly.

>what is water weight?
>what is bone density?
>what is muscle mass?

CICOtrannies want us to believe that all "weight loss" is mostly body fat no matter what you're eating.
It's all a big cope to tell themselves it's okay to eat grains and trash foods as long as you count calories.
Only works for roidtrannies because, surprise surprise... they're injecting HORMONES that will give them the desired results.
People who eat grains will end up with a skinnyfat, pot-bellied Indian janitor body type.

The human body is far too complex to reduce everything to calorie counting.
If you want to "lose weight" count calories. If you want to get lean and ripped, ditch the grains and eat animal protein.

>>75736776
>I've lost 14kg comfortably over 1 year
Lmao. As if this shit was some grand achievement. An entire year weighing every single thing you put in your mouth and only lost that much weight?
Many people lose this amount of weight in one or two months by just ditching the carbs and switching to a meat only diet.

>>75736817
so why do you still weigh 200kg? Should only have taken you a year to lose it.

>>75736810
>>75736366
>coping this hard
remember what time it is people.
literal jeet hours.

>>75736810
>Because some people have this issue, CICOtrannies are permanntly BTFO

>>75736840
I wouldn't dare call them people, because people only need to eat less slop and work out more and it just works as per the first law of thermodynamics.

Research Ray Peat sarrr
You likely have drastically changed how somethings Re biological processed, resulting in a much much higher CO part of CICO.
I'm just guessing, but that's what makes the most sense to me. If you have a smart watch, check if your average body temp is higher.

>>75736840
>>75736828
>>75736822
How many "calories" do I have to burn to lose 1kg of water weight caused by hormones?
How many "calories" do I have to eat to gain 1kg of increased bone density?

>>75736853
Energy transfer is like 8th grade physics, Timmy.

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>>75736828
>jeet hours
Jeets are the most notorious grain eaters of all time. The pot-bellied Indian janitor body type is the typical CICO calorie-counter body type.

>You just need to count calories Saaar.
>Don't eat meat and just eat vegetable slop Saaar
>Cow very sacred do not redeem the beef Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar!

>>75736853
I'd be more worried about the amount of dicks you'd have to suck to be called a faggot.

Which is one.
Faggot.

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>>75736859
So you're avoiding the question because you can't answer it. Noted.

>>75736842
First law of thermodynamics doesn't say anything about online calculators being right

Okey so first of all, gaining non-lean bodymass is retarded.

That being said CICO does not work well for mass gain. The body is very inefficient in converting glycogen and protein into fats (De novo lipogenesis is 5-10% efficient).

If you want to gain fat instead of lean bodymass you just gotta make sure you follow these simple steps:

>eat frequent insulin spiking meals to turn off fat oxidation
>eat a surplus from sources that do not use DNL as primary fat storage pathway. So eat a lot of fat, sucrose, fructose.
>If you want to increase your appetite completely remove starch from diet, as all forms of pure glucose spike leptin hormone. So favour high corn syrup as ingredient.

>>75736864
>Man loses ton of weight
>"KEK CRINGE"
>Faggot with no pecs
>"WOW INCREDIBLE"

>>75736873
I never mentioned any calculators for anything.
>>75736868
I lose over 2kg of water weight by pissing and sweating and breathing everyday, and it doesn't take that much energy, your question is inherently flawed, so I don't need to answer it.

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>>75736874
>CICO doesn't work for mass gain, it's not like people recorded themselves doing it

CICO is just more complicated than people think
First of all nobody is actually tracking calories accurately
Second of all not all calories are in fact the same due to the thermic effect of food and other complicated factors
Third of all your body is constantly changing and just because you take in the same amount every day doesn't mean the same amount is always being used for the same things

>>75736899
>post an example of guy doing exactly what I told would be great for fat gain.

Try getting an athlete to gain fat on just white rice and fat free milk.

>>75736923
go to a doctor and tell him that you think you might have brain cancer

>>75736920
Are you retarded?

This is why we track CICO on weekly schedules, not daily.
Literally day one shit newfag.
If I gain weight I know either
>my TDEE isn't as high as I thought
or
>my calories are more than I thought
otherwise just reverse it
>TDEE is way too high
or
>Food is not caloric dense enough

How the fuck you faggots can't comprehend this is absurd.

>>75736740
Simialr story for me, but it turned out to be Hashimoto's.

Now I lost 120 lbs by following some occult mumbo jumbo Chinese emdicien diet,w hich mostly consist of braised meat. This is after over 15 years of cutting calories more and more with no effect.

>>75736932
it's because of stuff like HORMONES, basically they suffer from same problem that vaginoids and trannies do

>>75736932
What does how you track it have to do with how it works

>>75736947
>I did wrong measurements and got wrong results, why doesn't it work the way I hypothesized?
kill yourself useless zoomer

The sad part is that people will still reply to this thread even though it's been posted like millions of times at this point, As if you can reasonably convince someone who thinks CICO is fake that it's real. We have multiple of these threads multiple times a day and it's just always going to devolve into arguing and people shilling meme diets, and yet people engage again and again.

>>75736952
>>75736932
Absolute brainlet take

>Do a hypothesis
>Test it
>It's wrong
>"Obviously, it's an error in measurements, a hypothesis can never be wrong >:) "
Must be a mathematician or physicist.

>>75736959
CICO hasn't worked even once since its invention by a US Puritan freak named Atwater in the late 19th century.

>>75736968
yes, your test is wrong, and so are the results
I mean, post body, it is the result, and we can work backwards from there.

>>75736972
It's so weird how it's at the same time like you didn't even read my post but also proved my point.

>>75736968
>hypothesis cannot be corrected
peak jeet world statement, I 100% know this is the same thing a jeet said when checking that fucking airplane that sucked that woman into oblivion.

>>75736987
It's truly incredible how humans can create such powerful engines that can suck in a fat slop and shred it in less than a second but at the same time have retards who get filtered by CICO.

>>75736990
exactly.

Imagine a world where people are unable to understand basic syntax that
>a variable range of both energy intake and energy usage exist
>with an overarching variable of efficiency that includes such things like sleep, hydration, stress, etc
>due to erratic numbers we have to make initial estimates and slowly adjust variables

We literally use imaginary numbers in math all the time, but jeets on 4chan unironically cannot fathom using imaginary variables for an initial dataset that only gets more accurate as time goes on.
Shit is absurd anyone who is filtered by CICO should unironically be chemically castrated.

>>75736927
>Ooga booga cell biology scary magic
Imagine being too afraid to google something because it contradicts with your beliefs.

>>75737047
>beliefs
Concession accepted, retarded nigger, I have no beliefs, I simply understand energy density of foods and didn't even bother entertaining your cope.

>>75736366
If CICO worked kike israel would not have lost his ifbb pro card for being too fat.

>>75736495
>refers to an enclosed thermodynamic system, which humans are not.
Careful, this triggers the autist ignoramus.

>>75737055
indeed, imagine having an advantage of human body inefficiency bleeding excessive amount of calories and STILL being unable to lose weight using CICO

Weight gain has more to do with hormones than calories. Insulin and glucagon specifically.

>>75737095
so stop bitching like a woman and start lifting, faggot

>>75736817
>Lmao. As if this shit was some grand achievement

Completely missing the point.
The idea was that i applied CICO to get the results i wanted, while minimising the damage of malnutrition or rapid weight loss.

>>75737117
Remember that you're talking to obese retards who are impulsive and cannot think about past nor future and cannot imagine what their life will be like in 5 years, because they're impulse driven and don't care about such things.

>>75737052
You just don't understand and it's ok. Yes, If you add 500 kcal to typical complex diet that is fat, carbs and protein people most likely gain same amount of fat not matter the source because your body has options when it comes to availability of fat storing mechanics and pathways.

>>75737127
it's much easier to eat 500kcal of fat than carbs, but you seem to be unable to understand that fact.

>>75737130
Which one spikes insulin levels more

>>75737139
neither 60g of pig lard nor 400g of white rice spikes my insulin because I'm fit and not a tranny

>>75737130
I have said fuck all about shit like that what are you talking about? Yeah of course its easier to eat fat than carbs.

Heres what you are not able to understand

Two persons with 2500 TDEE consume 3500kcal from one source during 24 hour period as their only caloric intake.

>Person A drinks olive oil
>Person B eats white rice

Person A gains significantly more body fat because its easier to store lipids than it is to make lipids from equal amount of calories. De novo lipogenesis is actually so fucking inefficient person A gains like 10x more body fat.

>>75737126
I mean I don't care about what method works for what reasons, I'm not writing a PhD on medical science. It's just that CICO offers the only reasonable algorithm to lose weight, adjustable to my parameters and my data. And if someone can't figure out error calculations or estimating error tolerance that's not a flaw of cico.

Btw losing around 15% of my bodyweight was so retardedly easy even a toddler could figure it out, cut alcohol softdrinks and sweets and that's already -250 kcal. Add some regular walking and that's it.

>>75737146
no, it's because you cannot eat almost 3kg of white rice in a day and so it never happened

>>75737148
>Btw losing around 15% of my bodyweight was so retardedly easy even a toddler could figure it out, cut alcohol softdrinks and sweets and that's already -250 kcal. Add some regular walking and that's it.
unfortunately I didn't drink alcohol and soft drinks so it wasn't that easy for me.

>eat 1500 calories of only potato chips every day
>still look like shit
WTF

>>75736974
>>75736977
>>75736987
>Doens't post body
>Demands posting of body
ESL?

>>75736409
>Personally, I was suspecting perhaps more energy goes through waste
Bro, have you tried eating your shit to get those lost calories?
Gaurentee you'll start gaining weight.

>>75736802
> Muh hormonal issues
Go down to 0 calories for a week and report back your weight loss fatty.

>>75736932
Just ignore these nïggers. They'll always be fat DYEL who will never see their abs.

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>>75737321
>hurt anyone who doesn’t subscribe to my dogma is fat dyel
You were saying?
I’m against cico btw.
I’m >>75736740

>>75737333
>>75737311
If you could read esl the story was past tense and I already lost the weight. Without CICo
Let’s see your abs now buddy

>>75737296
>Doens't

>>75737321
>cico advocate is too scared to say the no no word
Kwab

>>75737333
>only ripped guy ITT is anti cico
Oh no no no

>>75736366
>CICO is fake.
Only for gaining weight. For losing weight in the long term, it does work - if you don't care where that weight loss comes from and are fine with losing muscle and bone density.
What CICO fetishists ignore are hormonal influences. If you don't have enough insulin, for example, carbs aren't going to be available. If youdon't have enough testosterone, no amount of protein will make you gain muscle.
However, if you're starving yourself, at some point your body will take whatever is available to keep you alive. Sure, you'll already be in a permanent state of hypothermia by then, and won't be able to move without feeling like you're collapsing. But I guess if you're 200+ kg, it might be worth it. (And yes, that's sarcasm...)

>>75737362
>thats "ripped"
Lol

>>75737146
Neither of those would happen because you can't eat three kilograms of rice in a day, and after about a thousand calories of oil, he would just start having steatorrhea and he wouldn't absorb the rest of it.

>>75736879
>I never mentioned any calculators for anything.
That's because you're retarded.
CICO is a gross oversimplification. While it's true, it's not remotely useful because of how unpredictable CO is.

>>75736366
ITT: grown ass man with an eating disorder is trying to tell us how to eat

>100% chance you're moving more now that your body is getting proper fuel
>100% chance your calorie estimates are flagrantly wrong
>100% chance there's more variables at play here than you understand

CICO works, but you morons always acts like it's some kind of exact methodology carved in stone. It's not, precisely because of all the 9000 little variables everyone in these threads claim against it. Thermic effect, hormone balance, how hard it is to track calories properly, what even is a calorie anyway? Fuck it, none of that matters. That's looking at grams when you need to move kilograms.
>want to lose weight? Eat less, move more
>want to gain weight? Eat more, move less
So you're not gaining the weight like you wanted? Eat even more, dumbass. I'd say move less, but I'm guessing you're some anorexic failure of a human so you probably need the exercise.

>>75736932
>CICO is not oversimplified because...TDEE!!
TDEE is also oversimplified, retard.
Even the kcal in your shit is different depending on the day

OP here. Everyone is being retarded about the details. I was never talking about 2840 kcal to 3000 kcal. I talked about 1200-1500 kcal (unhealthy) to 3000 kcal (healthy). Obviously it's a nuanced topic, but this big change should give you an effect in days, if CICO were true.

>>75737441
No it wouldn't. It's demonstrated that your body can only soak up about 1200 extra calories in a day, and you were grossly undereating to start. You might gain a couple of pounds in a month with that change, tops, or you might burn the difference in being more active because you suddenly feel better on a better diet.

>>75736385
>One month

Dunning Kruger. Post less please

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>>75737455
I just realized I hadn't calibrated my scale and that it was -3kg and I see now that I have gained 3kg in the past month

>>75737499
Presuming a TDEE of about 2400 and taking your numbers at face value (making a LOT of assumptions there) that's, let's say, 30x600=18000 extra calories for the month. 7000 calories per kilogram into 18000 is roughly a 2.5kg gain, sure. CICO wins again.

I appreciate you coming back to report your error rather than just closing the thread.

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>>75737499
Oh you.

>>75737513
I'm just seeking the truth. I have no dog in this except my own weight. Thank you for confirming with the math.

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>>75736366
>CICO is fake

IQ filtered

>>75737526
The fun thing about this whole escapade is that it should help put in perspective just how much of a lifestyle being over/underweight is. It takes TIME to move the needle on that scale.

>>75737534
But this is not true. I was under the impression that it was, until something hit me. I don't remember what it was. I believe it was seeing how easy it was to make a high kcal shake on Youtube.Then I was inspired by another recipe to make a high kcal sandwich, and now I've done nothing else but make the shake in the morning and the sandwich at night. And when I cook at home, I make 3-4 portions, so I have meal prep for the rest of the week. I've changed nothing, except the shake and the sandwich, and I'm gaining weight fast.

The desire for coffee has gone away. I have the shake in the morning and I'm full until lunch. Then I have takeout lunch. Coffee after. Dinner already prepared at home and then the sandwich at night.

I feel 100 times better, I used to have telogen effluvium from stress but even that is getting better. I'm just getting better and it's insane.

Recipe for the sandwich isn't hard either: fry bread in butter, mayo + creme fraiche spread, onion, salmon, egg and sometimes avocado. 700 kcal and it tastes incredible. Doesn't even take up space in your stomach. Gargle olive oil for another 200 kcal if you need, etc. It honestly is not hard.

I think losing weight might be harder, but just drink coffee and honestly that's even easier. Less time consuming too

>>75737430
>CICO works
It never did. It's late 1800s pseudo science. You fell for another meme because you are FUCKING RETARDED.

Why the fuck would you believe that
>Stuff that burns the hottest makes me fat the most
?

WHY.

>>75736778
the latest trend in nutrition is pointing out how the average westerner's metabolism has been completely ravaged so CICO has become increasingly irrelevant over the decades

>>75737577
Please show me one instance in any metabolic ward study where somebody has eaten less calories than their basal metabolic rate and gained weight.

>>75737828
Me? I'm NTA.... I'm: >>75737526

>>75737844
I don't care. You've made a claim that CICO is pseudoscience and has never worked. And if it is, and it hasnt, then it should be totally possible and normal and we'd see it in real life that people eat less calories than they burn and gain weight

>>75737857
I'M NTA. You literally responded to someone else.........

>>75737868
>>75737857

>>75737333
> No time stamp
Fake and gay nigger

>>75737873
? I don't think you understand. I'm literally this anon:
>>75737526
>>75737499
>>75737441
I was talking to someone else about TDEE.

>>75736785
>>doesn't account for thermic effect of protein digestion
Common misconception. The nutrition label actually accounts for this.

>>75736864
>Keto schizo is back posting his 12 y/o boy looking body

Great

Why do CICOfags get so upset about basic facts and logic

>>75738230
Why do CICO deniers never post their body?

>119 replies to bait thread

Fuckin board is so over