Don't want your job outsourced to India? Just add meta.
>>100371847>Things that instantly filter below 120IQStraight, pure and unadulterated C.>C++lollmao
>>100371893he's right cus C is for 130+
>>100372004and golang is for 140+
>>100371893>Straight, pure and unadulterated C.You need an IQ below 50 to use C.
If you don't use the standard library or templates C++ is pretty much the most astheticc language there is
>>100372630>t. filtered
>>100371893>>100372004>>100372350c comes in stages, lads
>>100372630No, that's only partially true.The infamous case you are referring to was a C programmer who had an apparent IQ of 49, but was actually a genius with an IQ of 305, since at the time of measurement only 8 bits were sat aside to store the IQ.The man was adamant about keeping his privacy, which is why we never knew who it exactly was, only that he was a C programmer who claimed that defaulting to signed integers as the default was the biggest mistake to have crept into C.He never mentioned anything about null-terminated strings, though.
>>100372850my sides
>>100371847>Don't want your job outsourced to India?>Mehta-programmingsounds like the opposite would happen
>>100372964
do the owners of these companies ever visit these office towers and see that its completely staffed by pajeets not doing anything?
>>100371893Modern C++ is much, much harder to write properly than C.
>>100374344Artificially making it harder and then circlejerking yourself to it doesn't actually count, Seppletard.
>>100374344>Modern C++ is much, much harder to write properly than C.I can agree with this to some degree. It's generally to the point where It's better to just ignore the standard's garbage and make your own.
>>100374180>ownerswho? the shareholders? they can't do shit anyhow as long as the executive team (who will all be pajeet) are making the money roll in and don't say anything that will imply they are undermining the shareholders'.
>>100374415The funniest part is that this isn't even correct advice. It's actually much simpler.
>>100374415>cute trapc++ bros, we can't stop winning
>>100374445>>100374415I just ignore all the OOP crap and write as pure functional as possible. That solves literally 99% of problems anyone complains about. It's not my fault you all fell for the worst paradigm in history. A whole generation of coders writing spaghetti because university told them to inherent wheel from car and they drank the coolaid.
>>100375113It's more than just the OOJeet. Fundamental shit like co-routines are unusable in C++.
>>100375127This is what I mean bro. All my functions are pure, that means all my parallelism just werks. Don't even need to think about it.
>>100375113Yep, late 90s to mid 2000s.Then it was about making everything a webapp.Now it's about rewriting everything in Rust.In all cases, it was always about retards by retards for retards.
>>100371893>C>he doesn't write asm>shiggy
>>100375198ASM is the cherry on top, fren :^)
>>100375198how is fasm anyhow? It looks pretty macro-y.hand writing modern ISA shit looks cancerous though.
>>100375196Yeah. Clojure saved me from this hell and showed me the light. Coding is fun again in any language. All I need is lambdas and all your classes can go to hell.
>fire anon>hire 20 Indians on an HB for the same total monthly wage>rewrite whole program in Java>get government subsidies as a reward for ditching a memory-unsafe language
>>100375279>>get government subsidies as a reward for ditching a memory-unsafe languagethe last part is retarded, but the former is actually happening.The Indian government is actually subsidizing offshoring tech work to India.It's fucking horrifying how bad it's going to get if India keeps it up.
>>100375327>the last part is retardedhttps://www.whitehouse.gov/oncd/briefing-room/2024/02/26/press-release-technical-report/
>>100374415Look at me mom! I'm doing the compiler's job for it! I'm such a good C programmer:-)
>>100375416By this logic, you should just use Python.
>>100375454Python doesn't provide zero-cost abstractions over C.
>>100375416ASM to C>less code to write, okayC to C++>more code to write, no thanksC sits at the golden ratio. Coincidentally, I, a C-programmer, have written an algorithm in Bohemia Interactive's SQF scirpting language that just happened to be centered around the golden ratio, because I am that awesome.I know it's hard for you to fathom, but the truth of the matter is that over here in "C," we don't really give a shit what we use, and C's used just because it works. Don't touch a running system.Rustfags, on the other hand, are not just touching the running system, they want to rebuild the entire thing in a new language as well.These are the worst type of mindsets you can have as an engineer, and they don't even realize it.
>>100375555>an algorithm in Bohemia Interactive's SQF scirpting language that just happened to be centered around the golden ratioI had a formula that "activated" (i.e. spawned enemies and objects) a location when your player character is XYZ distance away from center, and I wanted to create a hysteresis for this activation when you leave, and the formula I created for that, when refactored and reduced to polynomials, had the constant (1 + 5^(1/2)) / 2, i.e. the golden ratio, in it.Basically, I accidentally "discovered" the golden ratio while writing some shitty code for some shitty milsim.Suck my dick.
>>100375555Trust me, this 20000 line C project has no memory bugs since it passed all the unit tests!
>>100375706You don't use unit tests to assert memory completeness, and I'm not sure if you knew that or not when you were posting that reply.
>>100375373ok, so you're retarded. stop shitting up this thread.
>>100375373> make software "safe" from outside attack> include CIA backdoor
>>100375731Don't shoot the messenger! Biden's the one mandating Rust, not me.
>>100375729Sorry, I don't believe that you've ever written a mathemathical proof or touched Coq. No, it's not the thing you suck daily.
>>100375804Holy shit fuck off idiot. I swear to christ bringing back /pol/ (neo /new/) was a fucking mistake. I fucking hate Hiromoot for not genociding it already.
>>100375819>No, it's not the thing you suck daily.fucking kek.
>>100375819You're too dumb to even discern between someone discovering something and someone (mathematically) proving something, anything I explain to you to make you believe would be a waste of my time.Nay, you are my counterpart as we vie for the favor of the public, my retarded little friend.Apart from that, you know I saw that coming, baby!>>100375555>I know it's hard for you to fathom
>>100375885Then you just showed us you don't even bother wrapping your asan/valgrind checks into proper unit tests. Hell, most Cniles don't even bother with using asan/valgrind. And then they cry about how nobody takes them seriously.
>>100375919I don't think you even bothered to look up what SQF is...Anyhoo, you can't even follow a casual conversation that borders on technical stuff, I wouldn't want to go bare metal with you, fren :)Best of luck to you and your endeavours, I think you might need it ;D
>>100375919>Hell, most Cniles don't even bother with using asan/valgrindto be fair, using it is nontrivial, especially in some cases where timing dependencies are involved.I really just don't understand why people deal with this unknowable unworkable garbage instead of taking the Rust pill, but whatever. miri works well enough in the cases where you can't "know" anyhow.
>>100375994I'm talking about C, not your shitty proprietary DSL
>>100376036Why would I need mathematical proof for C?Logical is enough.
>>100376067(I'm ignoring you shifing the goal posts again, because otherwise this conversation wouldn't even get off the ground. The things I do...)
>>100376067>Yes, I asserted my program's correctness. What? No, I did not do any tests... no, there were no proofs either... and I didn't use asan while debugging because that's bloat...>Just trust me it's correct, mkay?
>>100376067>Why would I need mathematical proof for C?I mean, how do you think glibc fixed condvars in pthreads? someone had to define a working model of C execution and and parallelisms to spot a deadlock. to be fair, sophisticated condvars are fucking nightmare fuel, but anyhow.
>>100376129>implementation 0 was so shit it needed fixinglol, cniles truly are geniuses
>>100376129>working model of C executionYou mean a working model of the machine code created by C.This is ridiculous.
>>100376196look at how condvars are implemented. It's not a problem limited to C, honestly. It's just a very tricky problem with how multithreading and how the C++ atomics model works.
>>100376273yeah I know some trivial stuff is too hard for cniles who can only think in single thread because that's just how limited their brain is
>>100376290implementing a trivial condvar isn't hard... implementing one that's free of ABA tier bugs trying to avoid spurious wake ups is, however.... what are we arguing about again?
>>100376305all condvar implementations have spurious wakeups
>>100376120Yes. My code works. There were hiccups, sure. But my code has been keeping machines safe, that have the potential to blow up buildings, for five years straight, 24/7.It's a watchdog unit, it checks that a control PC for a machine changes a digital output every 1000ms (because if it doesn't, it means the PC has frozen).The code overflows after 65535 milliseconds and has a finite set of states it can assume in accordance to that.I *could* run whatever official test you want me to, but I know I didn't fuck up.Maybe you just don't know this code completeness feeling that you need these whatever tests. I have enough shit to do, my shit works with machines worth and earning millions, but none of them need certification like in the aerospace industry.There's really nothing more I can add to that.
>>100376339>and none of them need certificationCase closed.
>>100376339>t. Therac-25 programmer's nephew
>>100376314>>100376305*checked what tf is a condvar*lmfaofucking toddlerlangs
>>100376374LabVIEW, Siemens S7, all their underlying code, it's all C.Not Rust.They control nuclear power plants.And I said I *could* certify it and it would pass with flying colors.I just can't be bothered if I don't need to, doesn't mean I didn't write the code to be as perfect as possible so as to only have to do it once and never touch it again.What have you done?
>>100376414yeah thankfully after shit like Therac-25 engineers learned that cniles are mentally ill like (You) and thankfully all safety is in hardware so no matter how shit your code is, it won't matter.
>>100376374>>100376392>The NASA study of the Toyota electronic throttle control firmware found at least 243 violations of these rules.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_10%3A_Rules_for_Developing_Safety-Critical_CodeHow many drive hours does Toyota have vs. JPL's satellite and spaceship flight hours?Certification requirements depends on external factors and should never be taken for absolute.Which is something every actual engineer knows.
>>100376454every actual engineer learned the hard way that if he won't make it safe, then it won't be safe, the end user is ALWAYS fucking retarded and in this case end user is the C programmer
>>100376431>all safety is in hardware so no matter how shit your code is, it won't matterWho do you think programs this hardware, JFC, lol, this is getting more and more ridiculous.
>>100376481You don't know neither Verilog nor VHDL
>>100376481total retarded monkeys like you, that's why all safety is in the unprogrammable part of hardware
>>100376506C programmers thinking they are engineers is the funniest shit ever
>>100376520C programmers are literal accountants of programming industry, they write most boring menial code like drivers and firmware which is just very spoopy words to the uninitiated but it basically boils down to writing basic functions like do_thing that wraps something like 3 bytes being sent to hardware directly which is a coded instruction for doing thing, very deep, requires very high intellect, and indeed, without C it's impossible to do, it's not like there's driver frameworks created in fucking Python because someone thought it would be funny to write drivers in Python because writing drivers is so complex even a Pyjeet can do it.
>>100376503Are all just formalizations of what you should be doing intuitively.>>100376506You know, I could just flip this around and say, well then, why even use Rust if safety doesn't matter?>>100376520Thanks, I'm flattered.
>>100376503>>100376506>>100376520>verilog>vhdlhttps://github.com/GPUOpen-Drivers/xgl
>>100376578>You know, I could just flip this around and say, well then, why even use Rust if safety doesn't matter?because I'm talking about this thing called embedded programming which is trivial compared to real programming, like writing real useful programs that are so complicated and need so many things in them and safety built in that people choose to write them in... C++ because C is for midwits who write most boring code that could be provided by the guys who created the hardware.
>>100376608>are so complicated and need so many things in them...skill issue
>>100376578>Are all just formalizations of what you should be doing intuitivelyHardware design and its logic doesn't come out of thin air nigger. It's not written in C.
>>100376608Yeah, well, embedded is the only safety critical thing that matters, everything else is peanuts.Everywhere else doesn't risk limbs being chopped off, bombs detonating too soon or too late, heart-pacing machines beating too fast or too slow, kidney filtering bypass machines operating reliably, etc., etc.All your other "safety" critical bullshit are memes compared to life and death.So, sincerely, shut the fuck up.
>>100376636yeah just like in this example https://lwn.net/Articles/542457/ where C programmers admitted that they're incapable of maintaining their own compiler in their toy language inadequate for writing compilers in>>100376646everything you mentioned has built-in hardware safety that is impossible to override in software because engineers know that (You) are mentally ill and out to kill people
>>100376637>It's not written in C.So it doesn't matter then.It's not written in Rust either.Ad absurdum.
>>100376314Ya, it's about avoiding them when possible.
>>100376665>engineers know that (You) are mentally ill and out to kill peopleWhat the fuck, man.
>>100376665>others suck therefore you dofuck you too, crab
>>100376666C does not provide safety in modern low-level hardware designs. It also doesn't provide safety in complex programs. So why do you delusional niggers keep lying that it's safe?
>>100376684It's like he *hates* me more than I am ...annoyed by him.Idk, it's the bed you made.
>>100376711because it provides controlnow go speedrun rust ack% somewhere else
>>100376723C provides so little control you cannot even define a compile time constant in big endian without having to manually swap it when it changes
>>100376723>C++ thread>Rust Rust Rust Rust tranny tranny trannyThey truly live in your head rent free. Friendly reminder that most embedded programmers trooned out, including cniles.
>>100376759never mentioned troondom even once.meds faggotand not of the hrt kind this time
>>100376646>Everywhere else doesn't risk limbs being chopped off, bombs detonating too soon or too late, heart-pacing machines beating too fast or too slow, kidney filtering bypass machines operating reliably, etc., etc.*Correction, it does, when's being operated from a higher-level language/interface.So the chain does extend upward.I hope the Rust developer knows what he's doing when he interfaces wif my low-lewwel icky-fippy litty-bitty embeeddid C-progwammed EM-CEE-UwU *twerKs*
>>100376711C is not a hardware specification language
>>100376646>Yeah, well, embedded is the only safety critical thing that matters, everything else is peanuts.Most embedded software is not safety critical. It's toy software where nobody cares if it crashes.