>disable javascript>almost every other website stops workingHow did we get here?
>irrelevant time-wasting question
i want to be in middle
Yuri is for cucks.
>>101171871im on the bottom
>>101171907now undress
me on the left
>>101172006are you a girl?
>>101172085we are all schoolgirls here
>>101171860well you see you need javascript enabled so that a script can load a script, which loads other scripts that load other scripts and so on, it all makes perfect sense and is the right way to do things
>>101172091good point, put your hand on my chest first
>How did we get here?Google senior dev here... it's because anime posters on /g/.
It depends on what you mean by workingYou can read most articles today with javascript offThat's what the internet used to be, text and images and linksIn that sense they still mostly workFuck cloudflare btw
>>101171860Something something corpos like google wanting to turn browsers into a operating system, whatever who cares the web is dead anyway, post moar cute girls kissing.
>>101171860It's less effort to make everything js-only. Consider 4chan:>opening a thread delivers server-generated posts>auto-update generates posts client-side with javascript from server-generated JSON API dataIt would be less effort to make the server deliver JSON data only and to render all HTML on client side with JS. If 4chan was actively developed instead of being a single-file PHP script hacked by an unpaid retardcuck every fullmoon, 4chan would probably go JS-only.
>>101172338>>101172454i want to be in middle
>>101172454In my opinion it's easier to build the HTML server side(it's just string templating in the end) and dynamically serving it to the client, it will be also faster on any device because you can use a real programming language on the server instead of javashit.Having a JSON API is not mutually exclusive with the above.In a perfect would there would be a "imageboard internet protocol" that doesn't even use HTTP (maybe it also has its own data format or maybe it used JSON) and there would be multiple open-source imageboard software you can install(and you control the updates instead of webshit that potentially updates every time you refresh the page) and the web browser would be niche software used only by academia instead of pdf.
>>101172560>Having a JSON API is not mutually exclusive with the above.Then you would have redundancy again. Good programmers hate duplicate code.
>>101172560What anime?
>>101172560I feel like you're describing email (for the text) and FTP (for the images). And then something to display the images.So basically you want email.
>>101172590>Then you would have redundancyNo because you have format the application data to HTML somewhere if you're doing a web app, if you do in on the server you won't have to do it on the client(also having an API that replicates the functionality provided by the dynamically served HTML interface is your choice, you could even have something simpler like a RPC), again in a perfect would you wouldn't have to serve HTML at all because you would serve directly to clients compatible with your protocol, but using a API-only server that talks to a JS-only client gives you the worst of both worlds:- you need a dedicated client that understands your protocol so you lose the inteoperability that the default web client(browser) would give you out of the box- but at the same time your protocol is limited to what webshit can do(want to do P2P? too bad)- and your JS-client is also limited to what webshit can doThis is the wrong way of using use the web, the reason people do it is because subconsciously they understand that the web sucks for making applications, so they want more, they want to make real applications like real programmers! but they are too dumb(or they don't know any better or they have agendas... ahem google... ahem) to realize you could do it another way, so they get stuck mentally in the spiral of absurdity that is forcing the web to become an application platform. JS-only clients are not even the end point of this madness, because even JS people subconsciously understand that JS and the DOM sucks for making applications, so they want more, again they want to be like the big boys so why not reimplement the entirety of computing in the browser using WebAssembly? Maybe we will see CPU and hardware emulation implemented in the browser in 20 years. All of this madness just because webshitters refuse to learn actual programming languages and platform LOL
>>101173078An hypothetical imageboard protocol would not be like email it would be more like usenet or activitypub, it goes without saying that email is not anonymous by design.>>101172835Sakura Trick.
>disable internet>all the websites stop working>why is this happening to me???
>>101172560>In my opinion it's easier to build the HTML server side(it's just string templating in the end) and dynamically serving it to the client, it will be also faster on any device because you can use a real programming language on the server instead of javashit.Because you have never built any larger website. When your front end is made of many encapsulated components, all that interact with each other in nontrivial ways, any such SSR quickly becomes unmaintainable mess.Also goos client side JS will always be faster than waiting for network, even if at the end of that network is infinitely fast backend.Also JavaScript has nothing to do with Java.
>>101171878yuri is actually 200% straight
>>101175104this, it's 200% because there are only girls so it's straighter than straight
>>101175461>>101175104straight cucks
>>101171860me? on the right
>>101171878tpbp
>JS is supposed to be terrible>according to the bnrilliant minds of /g/>none of these programming gods have ever been able to come up with an alternative that isn't only ever displaying static text, with maybe the occasional imageyou can tell most of /g/ is unemployed
>lust provoking image>irrelevant time wasting question
>>101172251Are you really google?
>>101175966Does anime bs provoke lust to you? What a fag
>>101175846and watching a man doing a girl is not cuck?
>>101175925Implying you can't do a RESTless api with only GET and POST and targetting the output somewhere. Ever heard of iframes?You can also use meta to control refresh, redirections. If there is no bloat you wouldn't even notice that the page changed. Internet nowadays is FAST as FUCK, but the bloat takes away all the improvements in hardware, infra, protocols, software.There is also old techniques to do streaming without javascript by holding a HTTP request on a server and pushing the data continuously without any additional action from the browser. It's like you would have a slow connection that needs to take time to send response, but instead of having a slow connection you send the data in some event loop, stream, generator or whatever depending on the technology on the backend. The backends don't just serve static files. Browsers are rendering elements on the page independently. Look how pictures load after the page is already loaded, it's not javascript.
>>101171878Non-yuri has boys in them, and you watch those boys fuck the girls you like, that's literal cuckoldry. Yuri is by definition the only non-cucked romance.>>101175925JS is objectively cancer, the browser should have used Scheme or Lua as an extension language.
>>101177042>Scheme or LuaScheme or Perl and we are good
>>101177042>>101176470At least you get the option to self insert. In yuri you either accept your place as a cuck or become a troon.
>>101177467Self-inserting is a mental illness.
>>101177627fantazising over the sex of cartoons and collecting images of it is too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r-Om6aUr5k
>>101175925JS is ok. Used to be bad, but they have fixed it for the most part.>>101176883>Ever heard of iframes?2000s are calling>>101177042Scheme and Lua are much less suitable for making websites.
>>101177627>Self-inserting is a mental illness.Now that's just cope. Everybody self-inserts when it comes to pornography, you're tricking your dick into thinking you're fucking a chick (your hand). It's why you don't see the dude getting as much focus as the woman in most porn. Jerking off to lesbian shit because seeing two girls naked makes you hard is alright, but actively obsessing over it, saving multiple images, and constantly talking about it despite being the clear third party is mental illness.
i self inserted into ur mum
>>101171860Js is required for basically anything interactive (including any buttons that don't link to other pages). Not really surprising >>101172560Well, if you're fetching json and constructing posts on the client side (like for thread updating), you don't wanna have two implementations of post construction (one on the server, one on the client). Hence, just send json and do it on the client.
>>101180287I guess you could move the post construction code into a .js library - on server, call this js to construct posts into html and send, on the client, the library will be webpacked into the ui.js. This would allow you to not have code redundancy while having both server and client side rendering :)
>>101180287>>101180321Another alternative is to return html when updating the thread - hence, it's all rendered server side
>>101177467>>101178642BASEDremember that as long as your wife's bull looks similar to you, you can just self-insert as him while you watch!
>>101171860>>101172338>>101172454>>101172560>>101172590>>101173481>>101177627this is gay
>>101177627this
>>101173532>any such SSR quickly becomes unmaintainable messConsider that by moving logic to the client you are adding local state(that you may have to synchronize), a universal rule of programming is that the less state you have the better and it's better to manage it in one place because synchronization is hard.If your application is complex you can't make it simple, but it's better to keep complexity in one place(the backend), this will make maintaining it easier not harder expecially becaue the backend(the server) is an environment you control, the client could be any permutation of browser/os/hardware, you have no control over it.>client side JS will always be faster than waiting for networkWhy do most JS-only web apps take a good second(or more) to load while showing me empty placeholders then?>Also JavaScript has nothing to do with Java.They are both shit but I meant Javashit, not Java's shit if you get what I mean.>>101180287>>101180321See >>101173469>having an API that replicates the functionality provided by the dynamically served HTML interface is your choice, you could even have something simpler like a RPCJust serve the HTML, it's literally that simple, we figured out this shit 20 years ago.>>101180464Yes.
>>101180570>Consider that by moving logic to the client you are adding local state(that you may have to synchronize), a universal rule of programming is that the less state you have the better and it's better to manage it in one place because synchronization is hard.Separations of concerns is more important rule than clamping all the state together. You don't need majority of client side state on the server.>it's better to keep complexity in one place(the backendThis is false. There is a reason why we stopped using PHP.>this will make maintaining it easier not harder expecially becaue the backend(the server)Monolithic design is harder to maintain.
>>101178642you are not getting hard because of some self-insert (does anyone even?)I think you might be in a minority self-insertingwatching porn is a voyeurismpeople get hard for various reasonsmany things can make someone hornyyou can get horny by just thinking about something naughtyyou can get horny by seeing someone naked in some specific clothesyou can get horny by hearing a pleasant voice of the opposite sex (assuming straight)you can get horny by hearing/seeing someone having sexyou can get horny by sextingyou can get horny by reading a smutyou can get horny by consuming some drugsyou can get horny by stimulating yourself or someone stimulating you - touching, rubbing or whateverthere is no self insert needed for any of theseyou are just a cuck and you try to justify your cuckoldry by saying everyone is like
>>101180570The issue with server side rendering is simply that it's not practical for everything, whereas clientside is. Requiring a request to render something is a limitation. Of course, serverside rendered web pages can still use javascript, but there's a line where you might as well do it all clientside and just exchange json.
me on the right
>>101180450>>101180860>y-you're the cuck! it's not cuckoldry if it's a bulldyke doing it! self inserting doesn't exist!either make an actual argument or fuck off to your containment board
>>101181520I've generally found that the people constantly bringing up cuckshit out of nowhere are just projecting, and you don't exactly strike me as any different>>self inserting doesn't exist!Your argument doesn't rest upon self-inserting existing, it rests upon self-inserting being the default and only valid way that people engage with it, and that any deviation from it means you either want to transform into one of the subjects or that you're still self-inserting but as some sort of off-screen voyeur who is still part of the scene because they are watching their wife cheating on themThe prevalence of shipping communities debunks this
>>101182139Fool. Shipping is for cucks too. If you want to see your waifu with someone else, you're a cuck. It's as simple as that.
>>101182240Your argument presupposes that people only ever ship the one single character they like the most, and therefore holds no water. Unless, of course, you think that every character you like is your "waifu" and that you can have dozens of them, in which case YWNBAW (you will never be a waifufag) and your opinion has been discarded.
>>101171860women have NO CLUE how easy they can have amazing sex lives.
>>101176883tldr;
>>101175104>>101175461straight is the new gayno one is more aware of this than women are thats why so many of you’re alone
>>101173532>When your front end is made of many encapsulated components, all that interact with each other in nontrivial ways, any such SSR quickly becomes unmaintainable messlol, lmao even at this zoomer adhd take, sorry chatgpt can't help you with everything
>>101171860>>101172454>>101172560>>101172590>>101173481>>101177627>>101180464>>101180570 the guy too>>101172338would make love to all of them
>>101184193nerd
>>101184216Guy?What guy?
>>101171860Me taking the picture
>>101171860In 2013, the Snowden leaks made the masses aware that glowies are spying on them all the time. As a result, HTTPS adoption increased, making it much harder for glowies to perform mass surveillance. So in June 2014, glowie asset Cloudflare launched Project Galileo,>which offers free defense tools and technical support to human rights groups, activists, journalists, and artistic organizations around the world.In order to fingerprint and properly track people, Javascript tricks are required (otherwise you could just use a proxy or similar). So Cloudflare tries to get as many glowie targets under its 'protection' so all dissidents can easily be identified and tracked. They're actively trying to make the web unusable without Javascript because otherwise you might have actual privacy. This is also why Javascript is an all-or-nothing thing; you can't just allow a specific script on a specific site to access specific functionalities, you have to allow ALL third-party code to run on your device and make full use of everything Javascript is allowed to do. It's possibly to restrict this using third-party extensions, but they're working on that (see e.g. Manifest V3).
>>101182786They know. They just don't bother.
>>101184216>the guyYui is a cute girl.
>>101184193Not an argument.
>>101185751And what a boy!
>>101171860What's the problem with JS?
>>101187222too old
>>101171860I heard that if you disable SSL, it breaks websites too, that's crazy, man
>>101187441Damn, I'm only few months older than JS.
>>101187222It's extremely slow and wastes CPU cycles.
>>101185559>you have to allow ALL third-party code to run on your device and make full use of everything Javascript is allowed to do.That's not true. There is quite a lot of webapis that require your consent, https, or even manually changing flags. Browsers also implement antifingerprint measures, limiting what kind of data JS can access.>It's possibly to restrict this using third-party extensions, but they're working on that (see e.g. Manifest V3).What do you mean? In what way Manifest V3 prevents extensions from limiting what page JS can access?As far as I know, it only limits what kind of requests can extensions can block, not what they can do after the JS scripts load.
Today I will remind them
>>101188081From my experience yurifags are more likely to be cuckolds.For example I always imagine my waitu being with me. I interact with her through my imagination and I couldn't bear to see her with someone else. But I know some "waifuists" who like a friend of my wife and they very often consider themselves unworthy and rather imagine her being with my wife. If this isn't the very stereotypical definition of cuckoldry then I don't know what is.That's being said, there is nothing cuckoldy about getting aroused from voyeurism of some random tho girls going for it. But in your example it is explicitly stated that one of the girl might be your waifu, and unless you are some Facebook normie, you should know that waifu is your partner. And wanting to see your partner with someone else is cuckoldry.
>>101171860Being gayis not okay
>>101188207Only if you're a man. It's ok for women to do it.
>>101177467>>101177627I want to self-insert between those dykes.
>>101175925WebAssembly.
>>101188000>Browsers also implement antifingerprint measuresTor Browser does. But mainstream browsers fully spread your anus for the advertising industry, a natural result of the biggest browser (that almost all other browsers are based on) being developed by an advertising company and the only 'competitor' being a zombie artifically kept alive by said advertising company.No mainstream browser survives https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/ without extensions locking it down.
Is this the Debian thread?
>>101190828Yes.
>>101171860>removes chain from bike>almost every bike stops workinghow did we get here?
>>101190828>>101190929
>>101190963It's more of a 'remove internet connection from car' situation. The web worked fine without Javascript, especially without the bloated mess it is now.
>>101187613>>101190963Neither SSL or JS are necessary for the web to work, both of them are garbage bolted on top of it and serve only corpo interests.
https://web.archive.org/web/20060930205635/www.eti.pg.gda.pl/katedry/kiw/pracownicy/Jan.Daciuk/personal/JavaShit.html
>>101190999SSL doesn't serve corpo interests.
>Use NoScript>Nothing works>Have to enable scripts one by one>Quite fun when trying to make an online purchase>And the script hostnames are often non-descriptive and tell you nothing about what the script is for>And the purchase keeps getting rejected due>And certain scripts don't attempt to be loaded until at the payment stage, so there is a limited time window
>>101190604>But mainstream browsers fully spread your anus for the advertising industry, a natural result of the biggest browserThis is false. Things like timer resolution, audio context precision, webgl info, etc is often limited or unavailable. Especially Firefox, but chromium also does it to some extend.
>>101190604Also here is the result from my brave on my phone. I do not have any extensions installed.
>>101191059It does, SSL/TLS uses trusted centralized certificate authorities which are always controlled by corporations(and potentially indirectly by governments and intelligence agencies), a superior design would be to use a web of trust of even better just do it the way the Tor network does it by storing the public key directly in the domain name and by using a distributed hash table.
>>101191218You can become an independent CA.
>>101191218You realize that you could just distrust every single major CA on your machine and operate in web-of-trust mode and manually authenticate certificates for specific sites?
>>101191218That's not a TLS issue, that's a CA issue. Your browser is at fault, not the protocol. A saner client would just accept certificates individually and store them indefinitely, rather than just asking 'daddy is this okay' every single time and blindly trusting daddy's answer, not bothering to check or store anything by itself (other than 'this isn't on the good goy list, so they must be trying to steal your credit card!').
>>101171860Did people magically forget the random bloat and shitty addons they kept adding to support more features? ActiveX, Flash, Adobe Air, Java...HTML isn't enough, in fact, HTML is retarded, why waste bandwidth on redundant tags? what should've been is that the server tell the client how to render the website only once, then only send raw data after it, no formatted or human readable garbage, with maybe a debug mode where it sends something human readable like json.Now you tell me why the fuck do you need to send a full page and recalculate the whole layout when you only update a part of the page? the server only needs to send the diffs, the minimum changes, the client should handle it, it's a one time cost for the client, this isn't the 90s anymore where servers are powerful and clients are rocks, clients can handle running a bit of code these days, fucking TTF Fonts have virtual machines in it.Also all that telemetry and ads related js crap should be pushed to the server, if the host want it, he has to pay for its processing power by running it in the server, not the client.
>>101191468In my opinion we should get rig of HTML-first web and turn it into an opt-in Web API at JS disposal. Modern websites are not "documents", they are software. Browsers should become what they actually are, virtual machines that run JS. DOM, HTML, CSS should be just utility libraries that a JavaScript website can use if it needs to. Or it could implement it's own layout and/or rendering engine.Next step would be making web wasm first and hardware wasm acceleration.
>>101171860>disables language that web works on>web stops working>"HoW aM i So ReTaRdEd"
>>101190963>>101191747Give me one reason why JS should be a hard requirement for websites on top of HTML, CSS and PHP.
>>101191657That's the point of native apps, or it was before electron shit became mainstream, which means HTML will never die. Having a specialised app for imageboards for example was very nice, you can access all compatible imageboards and customize them all at once. I think what should've been is that (most) websites should've been under specific categories that the client can render, 99% (if not all) blogs should be the same, why not compress them? It doesn't mean everything has to look the same, they can have different "looks" just fine.I still blame js because the real issue is having billions of ways and libraries to achieve basically the same thing, it segregated the world and forced repetition. There should be one single (and good) way of achieving the same thing, look at how Figma solved GUI, instead of having millions of custom widgets with their own headaches and autistic special edge cases per platform, everything is composed of the same 3 basics components (a shape, an image, and text), you use those basic components to make literally everything you need, it's simpler, it works.>Next step would be making web wasm first and hardware wasm acceleration.I'm fucking tired of having more abstractions and more sandboxes on top of sandboxes, sandboxing should be an OS feature, of better yet, a hardware feature, and you should be able to turn off arbitrary features per sandbox for even more security, wasm is not it.
>turn off monitor>can't see what I'm clicking onHow did we get here?
>>101191887>That's the point of native appsNative apps are not cross platform. Webapps are so popular now because you can visit them from any device, with a single click, without putting trash in your system.>Having a specialised app for imageboards for example was very nice, you can access all compatible imageboards and customize them all at once. I think what should've been is that (most) websites should've been under specific categories that the client can render, 99% (if not all) blogs should be the same, why not compress them? It doesn't mean everything has to look the same, they can have different "looks" just fine.That's just RSS.>I still blame js because the real issue is having billions of ways and libraries to achieve basically the same thing, it segregated the world and forced repetition.Nah, that would make web real repetitive and soulless. Right now you can use JS and other tools to make your website like no other.>everything is composed of the same 3 basics components (a shape, an image, and text), you use those basic components to make literally everything you need, it's simpler, it works.That's why I'm in for making HTML and CSS opt-in so you could make your websites from such primitives or even just some abstracted GPU command buffers.>I'm fucking tired of having more abstractions and more sandboxes on top of sandboxes, sandboxing should be an OS feature, of better yet, a hardware feature, and you should be able to turn off arbitrary features per sandbox for even more securityThat's the point! Right now browser is a document viewer that has a script interpreter in it that has entire virtual machine as a library in it. I'm advocating for making browsers the virtual machines that run wasm, preferably on hardware or JIT compiled, and only provides other stuff as opt-in apis. That's much less abstractions.
>>101171860VGH FVYVKO
>>101191657At that point, just make a different protocol. Why is the Hypertext Transfer Protocol used to transfer software rather than hypertext documents?
>>101192457Retard
>>101193794It's just that by name. Content type can be whatever, and it works fine for binary blobs like wasm modules.
>>101171860The client devices are more capable than those of the last. And because their are more clients, the server load needs to be reduced somewhat.
>>101171878Let me guess, you would rather watch something that includes a d*ck?
>>101175925You dont need any more than that faggot. The internet should be 100% html
>>101191657kys kike
>>101194550But >>101191657 was complaining that the standard of using the hypertext transfer protocol to transfer documents written in the hypertext markup language didn't fit the modern use case. As pointed out elsewhere in the thread, HTTP's functionality of returning a document in response to a query is not sufficient for the modern web, in which 'pages' are in practice software rather than documents. Doesn't it make more sense to create a different protocol for this new use case, rather than trying to push a square peg through a round hole by modifying either the peg or the hole?
>>101171860because most web developers forgot (or never learnt) how to engineer a solution. They stopped at being programmers. Monkeys that put pieces together, and never advanced beyond.
>>101195496I was talking about HTML not HTTP. I don't have anything against HTTP. It would be completely fine for JS or wasm-first websites.
>>101171878only dick i ever want to see is my ownmeanwhile you enjoy watching other men fuck chicksthat makes you the cuck
When will jirai-kei women appear in America?
guess what, if you disable css, your page will loke like shit too
>>101175925he got it right, /g/ is majority unemployed as proved by this >>101194902
>>101178642girl on girl action is by far more erotic than boy on girl
>>101198816>loke like shitAccording to whom?
>>101201209>i fucking LOVE Times New Roman black text on a pure white background, i can't get enough of it
>>101201263You can change all of that without CSS.
>>101171860Stop browsing corporate websites and you'll be fine.
>>101173481What about bitchan ? If only there were more instances...
CSS is fucking crazy. It's overly complicated and turing complete. It's typical webshit bloat and one of the many reasons why it's nearly impossible to write a new browser engine that's compatible with most of the web.
>>101171860I want to impregnate both of these of-age attractive young women
>>101201867of what age? one of those girls is 14
>>101201923I have no idea who the characters are, and they are both 18 in my headcanon
>>101173469>understand that JS [...] sucks for making applicationsWhat? How can a programming language "suck"? Especially a relatively terse higher-level language? What do you expect to be different between different languages, the ability or inability to for-loops or something?You sound like a novice.
>>101187905>It's extremely slow and wastes CPU cycles.No it isn't? It's the fastest interpreted language (except maybe Lua? But who cares), and is able to compete with some compiled languages like Go. Also a typical good JS app architecture relies on heavy parallelization, which also should be handled entirely asyncly (the only area where I make an exception in the JS ecosystem is some of the file I/O handling and in general atomic shit), so most of these single-thread speed comparisons between languages (determined via toy problems) are theoretical wank anyway.If your JS app is slow, then congrats, you almost certainly are being blocked by I/O and network. Not like JS can help here.
>>101171860>no javascript>just werksHow did they do it?
>>101203933>just werksNo, it doesn't.
>>101191825Why is CSS needed?
>>101171860me on the left
>>101209949me on the right
>>101171860offloading server computation to clientside
>>101199041What kind of job requires js on the internet other than being a webshitter?
>>101171860>Disable your house's electricity>Attempt to turn on the lights>They stay offHow did we get here?
>>101215059>Have electricity in your house>Attempt to turn on the lights>They stay off because you need an lamp app with an internet connectionHow did we get here?Just like electricity is enough for lamps html is enough for web pages.
>>101215941Luddite detected.
