>>101185810
>gnome
use mate

more like gnome lost

>>101185810
Gnomechads stay winning.

>Linux desktop
Lmao.

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>>101185810
mousechads keep winning

>>101185989
>GTK
You're still sucking gnome cock

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>>101185810
>gnome
Nobody cares about gnome and their shitty GTK slop

>>101185810
lmao that webm

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>>101186023
>GIMP Tool Kit

>>101185976
I mean I use Linux desktop but it's fucking hilarious that /g/ makes a fuss about actual developers using macOS (which is only logical). Linux desktop is for FUN FUN FUN but not serious business lmao

>>101185989
i like that it even shows the vertical tearing!

>>101186231
The same program that was using GTK2 when it was deprecated?
I rest my case.

>>101185810
That webm is Ebussy's reaction to COSMIC's release.

>>101186231
more like gender transition kit

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>>101185810
>X11 no longer a dependency of GNOME
Good. DE depending on display server makes 0 fucking sense. GNOME doesn't depend on Wayland either, right? Right???

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>>101187548

>>101186273
if by fun you mean being a flipping groomer. get voltage calmed pedo

Since this is a GNOME thread, I must ask:
What is the issue with tray icons?
What makes some people think tray icons are bad and they must be purged from existence?
How are they inconvenient? Is it about space? Do they become distracting? What is it that makes tray icons bad that is not one specific developer of a single program not using it correctly?

>>101187766
uhh chud tray icons are literally hitler and prevent gnome devs from dilating properly

>>101187766
Tray icons take up too much room. I need 90% of my bar to be empty space... because... I just do okay!?!?

>>101187766
You dont need them

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>>101187766
usecase for tray icons?

>>101187766
use case of tray icons not clear

>>101187766
you have to decide whether you are a GNOME app or an XFCE app

>>101187766
This is getting a bit heated.

>>101187766
Please use the search function

>>101187766
I can't believe this is still a debate lmao. I uninstalled gnome like 10 years ago because of this shit and haven't touched it since. When they moved the tray icons to a little dock in the bottom left corner I knew the devs were insane.

>>101185810
good.
X is bloat.

>>101186771
KEK

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>>101187766
they basically added them back under the system info thingy.

>>101187929
Not about what I need, it's about what I want, you black person.

Why can't I drag a file or folder to the bottom bar to pin it? Why can't I pin Wine programs?

Why doesn't recursive search work in the file picker?

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>>101186771
topkek

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>>101188119
Uhh what's the use case for recursive search?

>>101185989
It's going Wayland

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>>101185810
Are all Phoronix users fags who get assmad at jokes like this?

>>101187766
the dev team is ocd/autistic

>>101188210
What's the use case for this comment?

>>101188210
he's right though.

>>101188090
No tray icon for steam, discord, transmission, qbitorrent or anything but keep lying tranny.

>>101185810
>>101187548
It's hilarious that they only drop dependencies for political reasons

>>101185976
Yes, I fucking hate Windows and macOS, how did you know?

There are 2 types of DE. The ones everyone complains about, and the ones no one uses.

>>101189216
There's nothing political about X11.

>>101185833
>>101185989
they are both going wayland.
xfce 4.20 (lol) will be the first release with wayland support
mate 1.28 has wayland support but no session

>>101189366
falsenuke

>>101189216
no?
people have been trying to get rid of X since the 2000s.
Had the original wayland team not sucked balls we would have probably been done by now.

>>101185810
whatever
gnome is no longer a dependency of me

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ebussy bros... we won...

>>101189417
Who are these people you speak of? Certainly not freetards. At best they tried to rewrite a worse xorg, it took a while but they succeeded with gayland.

>>101185810
bye then gnomf

>>101186273
not everyone is a webshitter

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>>101189497
freedesktop and redhat.
Later on canonical with mir(but mir is now a repurposed wayland compositor)

>>101189402
not my problem since I have
>USE = "-wayland"
and all the problems are gone

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Is anyone else having issues with the latest version of Wayland crashing if you've fished, AT ALL, in Terraria?
Like as in, you can boot up, load Terraria, fish, close Terraria go do shit for 2 hours and bam everything just shits itself
The specific thing I can narrow it down to is Fishing in Terraria.
It's fine otherwise.

>>101189555
that wont be an issue for a while anon. at least as long as both projects use GTK3.

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>>101189563
There is still LXQT but I haven't put my mind to try it yet

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>>101189572
LXQT is also pushing towards wayland, in fact i think wayland mostly works.
I think they moved or are moving towards Qt6 too.
My issue with it is that its crap.

>>101189402
they're also not removing X11 support anytime soon

>>101189669
correct they don't need to do that.
That's the thing with wayland. Instead of tying yourself in X dependencies you instead tie yourself in the toolkit only.
This process is multi platform as the toolkit is responsible for abstracting wayland/X/mac/Windows.
However that means when the toolkit drops support(which will happen) they will also drop support.
or they will drop support earlier once all devs move to the new desktop session and aren't interested in solving old bugs they already fixed on wayland.

>>101189669
They should.

i use kde with wayland and it just works
even x11 games just open with a xorg icon window, like they did in osx

>>101185810
So there is no use case for a functioning display server anymore?

>>101190256
Wayland just works

>>101185810
I guess that's nice. No need for it to have a hard dep on X11

>>101189497
automotive for one.
literally no infotainment or LCD driven display is using X anymore because it's dogshit.
a lot of other industrial shit were opting for QWS over X11 as well.
stay delusional X tranny.

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>>101185810
>Gomen

No use case.

>>101186771
Kek

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>>101187766
Gnome is a death project made by and for mentally ill trannies with delusions of grandeur.
The foot language design it's a shit copy of apple, but even more baby-fied.
Total Gnomedev Death.

>>101190583
Yes. Like most modern software projects, Wayland just works and nobody really knows why. Until one day it just doesn't work, and nobody knows why.

>>101188073
> he doesn't know
unless you are using it kiosk mode (what is was intended for) it will end up infinitely more bloated than xorg
>>101190583
Wayland is just a protocol, try the many esoteric implementations that are more faithful to them and you will be surprised.
>>101189402
It's funny that people are considering this a win for "wayland". Each implementation is like a new OS in game, decreasing portability, decreasing will to port new software for Linux, decreasing functionality (as you retards treat every implementation as "wayland" users will wonder why software ported to wayland works for KDE but not GNOME that refused many extensions).

>>101190583
It doesn't on my laptop with nvidia graphic card (kepler) and it will never work.

>>101191330
> "Unix just works"
> "Unix works and nobody knows why. Until one day it fails and nobody knows why"
There's no "wayland" for it's just an protocol, too raw for anyone to be faithful to them, so we end up with many implementations that are as different from each other as Linux is to BSD.
So the first affirmation "it just works" and yours are literal nonsense. We can only observe tendencies, such as:
1 "security" for wayland is non-existent and it's actually harmful in that sense (like data race resulting in memory exploits and increased attack surface)
2. all implementations that try to be usable end up as bloated as xorg, even worse because wayland dementia about communication forces workarounds.

>>101185810
yeah, but fucking vlc doesn't work on wayland. how am I supposed to watch anime?

>>101191465
Is this true waylandsisters???
Also just use mpv

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>>101188119
Works on my machine

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>>101191891
It does require using a third party filepicker though

>>101191378
>It's funny that people are considering this a win for "wayland". Each implementation is like a new OS in game, decreasing portability, decreasing will to port new software for Linux, decreasing functionality (as you retards treat every implementation as "wayland" users will wonder why software ported to wayland works for KDE but not GNOME that refused many extensions).
mate and XFCE are using the same implementation the wlroots based wayfire compositor.

Also wayland is designed for more things than just desktops so by necessity it needs to be modular and modified to the vendor's needs.
We have a common core and extended protocol and above it all we also have portals that handle everything else.

>>101191954
holy skibidi

>>101191971
> wlroots
Hyprland was also using it, even before its plan to rewrite wlroots it was already breaking compatibility.
That said the major implementations are KDE and GNOME, so wlroots only stays to fuck with compatibility.
> wayland is designed
kek
> more things than just desktop
You mean less. It's kiosk that may adapt to kiosk situations; instead we ended up with workarounds everywhere to make it general case (ie desktop).
> extended protocols
The problem lies here for portability, everyone is doing their own thing and, as wayland stable protocols are too raw (even in comparison to the curses library), this "own things" ends up being 99% of the work (incompatibility almost guaranteed).
It's so retarded that an extension appeared for an use case and wayland added it to the stable protocols breaking compatibility with the existent one kek.
> portals that handle everything else
We have workarounds that passes your data within means that are known to be shit. Great!

>>101192084
>Hyprland was also using it, even before its plan to rewrite wlroots it was already breaking compatibility.
its breaking compatibility because its unfinished but yes. Hyprland doesn't need all the features other wlroots based compositors need
Also "breaks compatibility" is misleading, applications work and the ones that dont work are a direct result of the implementation being beta written over a few weeks.
>That said the major implementations are KDE and GNOME, so wlroots only stays to fuck with compatibility.
KDE keeps compatibility because it they actually care. GNOME does its own thing but its not like GNOME wasn't also actively breaking X before that. Did you know that the GNOME X11 session is deliberately broken in order to follow GNOME's design ideals? Retard GNOME devs will be retards regardless of display server.

Also you are wrong to call things like portals a workaround, portals are the implementation. We _want_ a permission system in 2024. Similar to the one you have on android(although granted the android one existing for longer is far more mature). Applications in 2024 are far more complex we have many more attack vectors than the ones we had before.
Not to mention due the initial limitations we found ways to create actual innovation with portals.

Wayland has issues like the fact that development is done by the slowest committee imaginable, and the fact that Sadly in the first years of development only GNOME was really involved so a lot of the initial protocol was designed by retards. Wayland's seeming incompatibilities are not really a big deal and are mostly an effect of its immaturity, but it is largely ready.
Just because a tool like grim may have issues on kde wayland _now_ doesn't mean its useless. (and i think it does work)

Plus you want more implementations because that way you take power away from the retards at GNOME.

>be me
>teehee
>have a primary screen
>AND... a secondary screen
>different resolutions
>mmh, let me apply different scalings...
>"No can do!", says X11
>"That's not a normal use case!", says /g/
>"Mmbmghbgllggh!", says my tied up big booty namibian gf (female)
>install Wayland
>immediately become gay
>computer just werks
>different scalings just werk
>however...
>...my soul yearns for the respect of the lintards
>I cannot live like this any longer
>slit my wrists as I finish this post
>Steve Jobs take me with you

niggers

>>101192427
>says my tied up big booty namibian gf (female)
>female
doubt

>>101192295
> hyprland unfinished
That's not the point, if you port one software counting with the existence of a certain extension or a specific behaviour, it won't work well (if at all) under another implementation that lacks it (because it's not a consensus and the consensus protocols [wayland core] are too raw).
This point is hardly going to change, the devs seems to be treating the stable protocols as if ready, where one stay really skeptical of changes and focus on maintenance.
> portals
In practice we are using it as a workaround (no security model is in use for a permission mechanism be useful) using things like dbus+pipewire (not meant for securely handling data).
> take power away from the retards at GNOME
By spreading power? If everyone focused on KDE it could work.

Plasma 5 was the last true X11 KDE DE. I had to switch to Wayland with Plasma 6. X11 support is only getting buggier each update.

>>101192529
> x11 support is only getting buggier
Yep, the normal strategy is to leave no option but accept the changes, in the hope that all the increased attention will fix the problems (the same was done with pulseaudio and systemd)

>windows fucking everything up with annoying changes, new levels of spyware, incoming creepy AI stuff and subscription tiers, built-in ads
>even a bunch of normal people are genuinely thinking about changing OS, once in a lifetime opportunity for Linux
>troon devs are going to fuck it up with buggy display manager console wars

>>101186771
ROFFFFFL

>>101192427
>"That's not a normal use case!", says /g/
That's because they're all on cheap laptops, go to one of the "desktop" threads and you'll see.. Nobody in their right mind would willingly use Linux on a desktop, especially multi monitors with different refresh rates, resolutions, scaling, etc..

>>101192481
>By spreading power? If everyone focused on KDE it could work.
Every member in wayland development essentially gets a single vote.
Mir has one, KDE has one, Wlroots has one and GNOME has one.
Along with others such as Cosmic.
It's a game of pure numbers so the only way to win against GNOME is to have more voters against GNOME's will.

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>>101185810
what a chad, telling how thing should be

>>101193265
What is the user case to switching off the computer?

>>101192661

This, this is the prime opportunity for linux to grab more users but instead they focus on their meaningless incestuous cockbattles. Literally just stop what you're doing and put out a distro that's as close to Windows as legally possible but without the Windows bullshit.

>>101193484
this but unironically
anyway just type "poweroff" in your terminal, zero clicks

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>>101192427
>have flickers and black windows
>can't share my screen without dbus
>can't call global shortcuts without workarounds
>software not designed for wayland floats however it wants because it tries to use global coordinates
>developing software for wayland gets 8x harder due to... different compositors, different protocols, different behaviors between the environments...
>xwayland lags and there is no drag and drop support
>at this point wayland, flatpaks and xwayland run 3 separate themes with different mouse cursors when I hover over them
>my mouse cursor stutters under heavy load because hardware cursors are too hard for modern developers
>but at least my ASUS ROG Gayming(TM) AI First Setup with two different screens is working now
>which means that...
>wayland is le good
>because I can play my videogames
bing bing wahoo
inviting /v/ermin scum to linux was a mistake

>>101193923
why not both? is gnu/linux platform deficient in desktop environment?

>>101193982
>is gnu/linux platform deficient in desktop environment?
Considering that you have to choose between the clunky, largely abandoned X11 and the janky, frail Wayland? Yes, it's very deficient.

>>101192661
>even a bunch of normal people are genuinely thinking about changing OS
Yeah, they are THINKING about switching, but they won't.

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>>101185810

>>101194563
and there's no incentive, beyond valve's promotion. but that's just gaymen.

>>101186771
>>101186360
>>101186231
Is there any gimp alternative that is not pure shit? Gimp is shit, krita is shit, all the alternatives I have tried are shit

>>101186771
>>101186231
>>101186023
>>101185989
I love you retards so much sometimes, my fucking sides.

>>101193265
its 2 clicks for me

>>101194748
Adobe Photoshop

>>101194775
lol

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>>101185810
Gnome has more important issues to worry about than pesky things like software. Picrel is the latest important announcement.

>>101187548
wayland is a protocol

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>>101185810
Are you questioning the qualifications of Gnome's decision makers anon?

is there a wm+file browser that handles picture miniatures and preview now

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>>101186771
sensible kek

>>101189799
agreed. the sooner (((IBM))) moves away from tried and true linux components, the better.

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gnome is bad

>>101185810
i am just waiting till wayland gets synergy support or whatever the free version is.

>>101192556
>leave no option but accept the changes
need I remind you that TDE and MATE exist? we most definitely don't have to accept these changes.

>>101192661
>troon devs are going to fuck it up with buggy display manager console wars
that's just a cohencidence, don't look behind the curtain (((who))) funds these projects, goy!

>>101195184
i feel bad about my fsf donations

>>101195215
lmao nice try

>>101195253
what, why? you can't be for it compared to 10 years ago.

>>101189556
>latest version of Wayland
uuuh GPT-chan? wayland is a protocol and there is no such thing as a common wayland server

>>101194985
>now when are rights are questioned more and more
I never hear about their rights

>>101195021
where are the niggers?

>>101194602
L0L

>>101195311
they're not being questioned, rather

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>>101190698
>lxqt
what's the use case of using a dead and buried desktop environment, tranime poster?

gnome sucks

>>101194748
what's wrong with krita?
besides the typesetting

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>>101195799
what makes you think sucking is a metric?

>>101195806
it's a metric when there are options that don't suck

>>101195810
i'm not aware of any other desktops for linux, sorry. gnome is the standard desktop

>>101189556
This is exactly something retarded that soldier would say if he was into technology
>the damn fishing in terraria is crashing my computer!

>>101185810
Finally.

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>>101195810
that's your misinterpretation.

>all this autism about wayland vs x11

dude just use the newest lmao

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>>101195777
It works in contrary to Gnome.
Also, it's you who jerks off to your Gnomemaster, faggot.

>>101185810
Why is the ebussy so angry?

>>101196341
I like my software like I like my women: old

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>>101185810
>Wayland won.
In your mind.

>>101191414
It should just work with the latest Nvidia drivers that support explicit sync, and the latest version of KDE or GNOME.

>>101193570
The development work that's going on in the Wayland camp is literally what will facilitate for Linux to be an attractive OS to switch to.

The display server war is long over. Wayland won.

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>>101185810
not my problem you couldn't provide a use case for Xorg

>>101197077
>case for Xorg
It just works.

>>101185810
What's the use case of Wayland?

>>101197197
its not even in rust, so literally who wants to even shill this worse version of xorg?

>>101197077
NVIDIA.

>>101197608
That's not true anymore, since the Linux graphics ecosystem moved to explicit sync, and Nvidia's latest drivers.

>>101196341
> Just use a downgrade
> What matters is to updoot

>>101197608
This used to be the case until January. Now it works on gayland with some retarded start up command on steam.

>>101185810
but who uses gnome

>>101190606
I'm sure if you keep repeating this bullshit, one day it will become true!

>>101190606
> Kiosk does not use a general display server
What a surprise

>>101197067
Wayland has been losing for 15+ years, has multiple (broken) implementations instead of focusing the efforts on one, has no fucking idea what ICC profiles are (unsuitable for computer graphics) and is constantly shilled by delusional Red Hat fanatics such as (You)

>>101197608
I don't know what NVIDIA is or what it does. Sorry.

>>101186771
trannies on your mind
just kiss her already faggot

>>101188210
he BTFOd the entire /g/

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>>101186196
Usecase?

>>101198378
It's taking over whether you like it or not. You can't do shit about it.

>>101196949
It's simply unsupported, it will never work. All Kepler cards and older. So yeah planned obsolesce at work.

>>101201455
Seems like you should blame Nvidia if their (current) drivers won't support your card. It has fuck all to do with Wayland.

>>101203512
Average freetard dishonesty that conveniently hides the fact that Wayland developers refuse to collaborate with nvidia. Nvidia recently released 555 drivers with explicit sync support. It happened not because Nvidia finally did it, but because Wayland developers finally merged their feature requests that were stale for 3-5 years. It took exactly around 5 years for Nvidia to convince retards that these features were needed for their shitty display server to finally start working properly.

Meanwhile Wayland developers think they are in power to pressure the Nvidia to ditch their proprietary driver in favor of the open-source one, so they keep sabotaging every request that Nvidia is asking for.
Why are Linux users such dishonest liars?

>>101186273
you write like a neckbearded redditor

>>101188210
>Are all Phoronix users fags who get assmad at jokes like this?
Yes, you should see how defensive they get when they talk about rust, *dbus, systemd and all the other cancers. Understand that these technologies are the foundations of their identities. You can't joke about that just like you can't joke about the fatherland to a nazi