>>101472289
And if you are a journalist, this is your opportunity to shine. Write an article about how software companies (and Microsoft in particular) have been destroying lifes and value, and how they are NEVER made responsible.

Our cyber correspondent Joe Tidy explains here why it could take days to fix - Microsoft has suggested switching devices on and off again up to 15 times

>>101472289
It wasn't Microsoft's fault, so no lawsuit will stick lmao

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Complex systems won't survive the competency crisis.

How is failure (by software update) of this scale and breadth even possible?

>>101472589
>gives SYSTEM level access to """security""" software without safety mechanisms preventing it from killing the system itself
Yes, they are responsible.

>>101472289
Both Windows and Clownstrike should be sued for this, but that shouldn't distract you from the fact that anybody affected by this 100% deserved it.
They're the ones who decided to install an auto-updating kernel mode rootkit on literally all their machines.
The only ones who were kind of forced are the ones who had to get government security certifications. But most people affected are just retards who fell for the meme.

>>101472897
>They're the ones who decided to install an auto-updating kernel mode rootkit on literally all their machines.
It's security software, dumbass. What are they supposed to do? They trusted the provider and got rekt for that. See >>101472623

>>101472933
Not install auto-updating kernel mode "security software"

>>101472289
nothing to do with Windows

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>>101472897
>They deserve it for Microsoft forcing them to abide by their mandatory OS doctrine!

>>101472975
What the fuck are you talking about? Microsoft doesn't force you to use any third party antivirus.

>>101472623
So root users shouldn't be able to break the system?

>>101472289
Let these retards suffer lmao

>>101473047
>users
Do you understand the difference between a user and a piece of (security) software?

>>101472966
What? are you retard? also why are they delegating something very important to a third party unknown company? It's a trillion dollar company.

>>101472289
>These companies should be sued to bankruptcy
Their insurance will pay for it. Except their insurance won't have enough money.
So the reinsurance will pay for it. Except this is so bad even the reinsurance might not have enough money.
So here we are, back in 2007/2008 with the Lehman Bros. I'm sure it will turn out fine.

kek
A lotta angry pajeets today on /g/...

>>101473248
Nothing ever happens.

>>101472623
>>101472933
>>101473090
The affected companies installed the application and chose to trust its drivers.
That is NOT Microsoft's fault,

>>101473310
you fucking retard clearly have no clue about software or about operating systems
go back

>>101472352
>And if you are a journalist, this is your opportunity to-
scroll through Twitter hoping someone else did the legwork already so you can just copy paste their shit. As usual.

>>101472289
>Jewish company owned by the ruling class
>sued
kek

>>101473301
except that one time they crashed the economy, shut all the stores down locked everyone inside closed all businesses and forced the cattle to take an MRNA jab

>>101472623
did they force you to install crappy shady software on your system?
hard to blame Microsoft for this disaster

retards always want their rights removed when something goes wrong, microsoft gave people right to install crap on their systems, now those people need to deal with their decisions

>>101472289
TOTAL MICROSOFT DEATH

>>101473090
Makes zero difference as far as the computer is concerned. Neither Windows nor Linux care if a process is on behalf of a physical user

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Okay, but who made the decision to use a platform that updates everything in Production at the same time with little-to-no-testing beforehand?
Crowdstrike and Microsoft deserve their licks, but it's the sysadmins at aircraft companies, banks, and government institutions that are too lazy to follow good testing and operations procedures that led to this event. Every company that DOES manage their updates in a sane way has not been impacted.
Further, every decent organization knows that, even with the best of practices, sometimes shit just happens. Backups and risk mitigation strategies are inherently built into any good process. If all of these groups aren't able to resolve their issues, that is 100% because they simply do not care about following good practices or hiring enough good engineers.
> b-b-but it's not the sysadmins fault! it's the executives who bought these contracts and forced the issue
And those sysadmins, if they were any good, should have known the risks from this. It is a collective acceptance of risk in both their own careers and the health and safety of their company/industry. Everyone shares some blame, and any lawsuit here would fail.

>>101474039
>noo software companies don't need QA processes!
LMAO @ this board. you faggots are not real engineers and you are scared as hell of being held responsible. I seriously hope half of microsoft & crowdstrike pajeets get imprisoned for this shitshow.

>>101473839
>Neither Windows nor Linux care if a process is on behalf of a physical user
... they should. Do you even program?

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>>101472289

It's all bullshit. You see the slut journalists still
happy don't you?

DON'T SEE NO BLUESCREENS ON MSNBC BITCH!

>>101474314
yeah I mean he's right in a way, but only because we have to hold the default position that every potential MS update is broken as fuck and has a near certain chance of breaking something or everything because their testing is trash and they don't give a shit if their updates break their customers installs because majority of their staff are incompetent 3rd worlders.

>>101474039
>And those sysadmins, if they were any good, should have known the risks from this
When you work in a corporation, at some point you run out of fucks to give because you wanted to deal with machines, not stupid people, so you do whatever you're told to do as long as you can shift the blame in case things go sideways.

This is how modern organizations work.

>>101474039
this is the problem with SaaS and CI/CD shit. it's expected that the vendor maintains all of it and this provides 2 benefits to the customer:
>you don't have to do it yourself
>when something breaks, you can blame the vendor and CYA (cover your ass)
it really is the executives' fault because they have the pull in the business. in every fortune 500 I've been it the CTO says the same thing
>"why build it when we can just buy it?"
the sysadmins know the risks, but the suits just want value ASAP and for that, the better option is buying instead of building

>>101474574
>every potential MS update is broken as fuck and has a near certain chance of breaking something or everything because their testing is trash and they don't give a shit if their updates break their customers installs because majority of their staff are incompetent 3rd worlders
I have felt this way for years. Nice to know corporate regards are finally learning the lesson. It's going to be an expensive one, though.

>>101472933
>It's security software, dumbass.
>it's a gift from retreating Greek army you dumbass

>>101474727
>It's going to be an expensive one, though.
and thank god for that. money is the only thing these businesses understand. if they're not suffering monetary losses nothing will get done

>>101474764
>if they're not suffering monetary losses nothing will get done
1000% true and I agree.

tl;dr for a layman

>>101474830
Everyone everywhere is retarded.

>>101474838
i knew that already

your average person doesn't have critical thinking skills

>>101474830
billions of dollars wiped off the map today due to a microsoft whql fuckup.

its a simple fix but a tedious one and its not gonna stop the bloodshed of the stock market reopening.

even if you arent a windows user your wallet is affected.

>>101474862
that's awesome, hope a lot of stocks people are crying/killing themselves
>even if you arent a windows user your wallet is affected.
crypto is up doe

go long on cloudflare because boomers will mistake them for cloudstrike

>>101474830
>policy requires you, Mr. Sysadmin, to put this airport kiosk on automatic security updoots from M$
>fine, but it'll burn you and me one day
He was right. Today is the day.

>>101474895
check back monday

>>101472289
>putting all your eggs into one basket
we deserve this

>>101474960
no need, gold is dipping i'll just buy that

all stock/crypto fags need to die lol

>>101474920
this. the smart thing to do would be to put in an internal network and firewall it to only allow it to access the main server, zero internet access.

>but corporate say all our systems need to be protected by muh cloudstrike, and that means they need to be always online...

>>101472289
I just woke up, what happened. Is my windows 10 home server still running?

>>101475020
Do you pay for crowdstrike? If not you're fine.

>>101472289
My windows 8.1 works fine :)

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saar please understand
windows of computer fully protected if it not boot
very safe

>>101475050
Ah. Cool. Guess I'll read some news articles or something.
Thank god my UT99 and quake servers are safe...

>>101472609
Not that it's related to this particular shitshow, but this is why I've never really bought the hype about AI. There's a very good chance that AI gets worse in the future, not better, because most people won't even be competent enough to maintain what we already have now. I look at the younger generations who barely know how to use a computer and wonder what makes people so confident that AI is the future.
Not to mention the general trend of enshittification in everything tech-related over the past decade or so. There's no reason to think AI will be immune to that trend when nothing else has been.

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>be cybersecurity software company
>need to prevent any unwanted software from running on systems and prevent malicious users from accessing the system
>idea
>prevent ALL software from running on a system and make it so NOBODY can access it
>problem solved forever
>push update
>everybody shits their pants and the company's stock tanks
bunch of whiny babies, i swear

>>101472897
>The only ones who were kind of forced
Funny that in my neck of the woods:
State gov fucked
Fed gov? Couldn't give a shit it's all Symantec round here.

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>>101472289
>why?
Jews and Jeets

>>101474039
>retard rambling
sysadmins do not make the call on the software to use. There is staging functionality in crowdstrike but crowdstrike themselves bypassed it. Not the fault of sysadmins.
Nobody using crowdstrike was safe. No one.

>we need to sue microsoft because someone else's software issue occurred
Flagrant fantard thread.
>>101474862
>imaginary money disappeared
oh no

>>101474039
>ITS YOUR FAULT
lol
LMAO
Maybe if I got the million dollar bonuses each year I'd give a shit.

>>101474862
>BILLIONS WIPED
That happens almost every day. Looking at the major indexes fucking nothing happened.

>>101475964
>>we need to sue microsoft because someone else's software issue occurred
do you know who designed and build this retarded operating system?
do you know how many times they have had their own fuck ups?

>>101476031
>we need to SUE microsoft because clownstrike pushed an update!!!!
You are mentally ill.

>>101475068
Computair status: secured safest with Durgashare

>>101476131
>t.software """engineer"""
learn about operating systems and security and then, and only then, come back

>>101476178
>it's microsoft's fault someone else wrote bad code!!!!!!
You're so transparent you glow.

>>101476201
no code should be able to break the system EVER, you FUCKING RETARD
go back to whatever forum for retards you came from

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The order they activate must have been fucked. Should only activate after windows does

>>101472623
Bro, it's not MS who gives anyone access to random devices some company owns. The people who installed that shit on their company computers gave it access. You don't need to ask MS for permission to install crap on your own computers.

This might shock you to your very core, but I also don't ask anyone for permission before installing software on my PCs.

>>101474830
windows a shit

>>101476235
That's now how anything works, you fucking spaz. Code WILL be able to break whatever mac or linux distro you fantard over too.

>>101476383
shut the fuck up retard. you have no idea how shit works and keep repeating the same shit over and over. it's a system design/controls issue and your dumb ass """arguments""" won't make microsoft less responsible for this issue. it has happened many times, even with microsoft's own drivers, and they have not done shit to fix it.

>>101474039
Yeah, it's really fucking wild to me that companies and apparently even fucking airports just simply allow crap that can break the OS or prevent booting entirely to just fucking auto-update with no testing or screening beforehand. Absolutely fucking wild.

>>101476461
SHUT THE FUCK UP!

It's a bug alright - in the kernel. You *still* haven't learnt the first rule of kernel maintenance?

If a change results in user programs breaking, it's a bug in the kernel. We never EVER blame the user programs. How hard can this be to understand?

To make matters worse, commit f0ed2ce840b3 is clearly total and utter CRAP even if it didn't break applications. ENOENT is not a valid error return from an ioctl. Never has been, never will be. ENOENT means "No such file and directory", and is for path operations. ioctl's are done on files that have already been opened, there's no way in hell that ENOENT would ever be valid.

Shut up, And I don't _ever_ want to hear that kind of obvious garbage and idiocy from a kernel maintainer again. Seriously.

WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE!

Seriously. How hard is this rule to understand? We particularly don't break user space with TOTAL CRAP. I'm angry, because your whole email was so _horribly_ wrong, and the patch that broke things was so obviously crap. The whole patch is incredibly broken shit. It adds an insane error code (ENOENT), and then because it's so insane, it adds a few places to fix it up ("ret == -ENOENT ? -EINVAL : ret").

The fact that you then try to make *excuses* for breaking user space, and blaming some external program that *used* to work, is just shameful. It's not how we work.

Fix your f*cking "compliance tool", because it is obviously broken. And fix your approach to kernel programming.

Linus

>>101476235
When kernel mode code fucks up the only safe choice is to crash the system.

>>101476466
>you have no idea how shit works and keep repeating the same shit over and over
no lmao, you just keep projecting and screeching and shitting yourself like a mongoloid retard because you don't like how the truth doesn't match your broken delusions

>>101472289
they better go fast. Crowdstrike only has 3 billion in cash on hand and a measly 89 million in profits in the last 12 months. their liabilities far exceed their long term assets, so there won't be much left to sue after that.
not to mention they won't be able to find new clients for some time, so no new revenue streams.
they're cooked. hopefully the c-suite has good parachutes in place. employees should start negotiating a severance plan as soon as possible.

>>101474039
>but it's the sysadmins at aircraft companies, banks, and government institutions that are too lazy to follow good testing and operations procedures that led to this event.
obviously. the only reason these companies rely on cloud-bases security services is because sysadmins and IT fags in general are lazy bums who are never worth their price.

>>101472289
>>101476383
>>101476461
>>101476622
It would be possible to have a kernel that can catch a subset of crashes in kernel space (and maybe eject a driver or something), but more to the point: kernel crash means a bug in kernel space.
Either MS's code has bugs itself, or has a security hole that allows other software to crash the kernel (yes, in reality it's both).
Unless you're using a non-MS kernel, MS has something to do with this.
And yes, the same could happen with other kernels, sure, but it usually happens with Windows

>>101476963
>blah blah blah
It's a clownstrike issue, not a windows issue. Take your platform wars back to /v/eddit.

>>101476963
It's not so simple. If code is running in kernel space it's probably doing something Very Important, or else it would not be running there in the first place. If it's a driver then it's literally controlling the machine's hardware, this isn't necessarily something you can just stop and still expect the machine to function correctly or to still fulfill its purpose. If it's some security shit instead, then you can't really just throw that out either, because the security shit is something your user installed and permitted to run and presumably the security this provides is actually important to said user and as such you do not want to have the machine running normally except the security program has been turned off because it did an oopsie. If it's in kernel space, then the assumption is that you CANNOT do without that piece of code running, you don't just turn shit off at random.

When critical components of the system fail, turning it off is the sane and safe choice. That's why Windows BSODs and why Linux kernel panics, because the component that failed is essential to the system running as expected and with it gone it can no longer do so.

If the code you installed is so important that it needs to run in kernel space, then it is treated as such. There is a very simple solution to not crashing the entire PC when a program fails, that is to run the program in user space. If you specifically decide or need to run a program in kernel space instead, then you live with the consequences since they are inherent to what you decided to do.

>>101477257
>fucking retards knows nothing about OS dev
>calls other people /v/tards and redditors
no u

>>101477328
A driver is for things like hardware, e.g. if your sound drivers fail, you can just lose audio rather than killing the system.
Drivers are not for security (well, there are hardware security tokens, but that failure will fail correctly). Are external companies injecting code into the kernel for security? Yeah, we have an example today of why that's not ideal
A friend who does Linux kernel wizardry as part of his day job pointed out to me this morning that an OS *could* cope. This would be the case if the OS did not rely on arbitrary shoehorning of endpoint monitoring modules into the OS kernel, instead running them sandboxed via eBPF - for example, Tetragon on Linux.

>>101477401
>nooooooooooo this issue clearly and visibly caused by this software company is actually MICROSOFT'S fault because um uh ah just shut up and install linux
Flagrant fantard posting.

>>101477484
flagrant tech-illiterate post. go back.

>>101472933
>What are they supposed to do?
There must have been at least 1 technically aware person involved in discussions before they bought the service. If that person wasn't consulted or wasn't able to point out the potential failure angle that this service introduces to their system then they deserved it.

>>101472289
>SUE
have you ever read any EULA?
>"Not liable for any damage"

>>101477545
>y-you're tech illiterate if you don't shift the blame to the operating system I don't like reeeeeeeee

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>>101472289
>microsoft

>>101478626
>noo ONLY crowdstrike is responsible to make sure systems sold by microsoft don't corrupt themselves!
this board is kind of special...

>>101479574
Clownstrike is literally the sole responsible party for the issue. Their software is the root cause. Do you own stock in them? Or are you just a macunt or lintard who wants to shift the blame to microsoft just because they're a competitor?

>>101479574
We have just fallen victim to corporate america hiring shill forces for marketing purposes. When they have to, they switch to damage control mode

>>101480019
right, I forgot that this whole website is full of shillbots. many thanks for reminding me, anon.

>>101472289
Is this karma for banning Kaspersky?

bump