I have made one of the most fair AVIF vs JXL comparisons possible, I think. First I set AVIF to encode at 80% high quality since we all know it does better below 50% but obviously nobody wants potato quality if it can be avoided. In addition I used speed 4 instead of speed 0 since realistically that's the maximum compression any sane person would use with AVIF. JXL was allowed to use max compression but I could not find any settings to enforce 10-bit encoding.Anyway I'm sorry to say that you probably won't want to use JXL for HS2. I might do other image sources in the same manner in the future but overall I'm not too impressed with JXL right now. Computer graphics might not be something JXL is good at compared to AVIF.
Picrel is original PNG in case anyone wants to redo the test themselves.150KB AVIFhttps://files.catbox.moe/augx3t.avif150KB JXLhttps://files.catbox.moe/1j3id2.jxl
>>101501726Are you that weird filesize guy? If I have a shit ton of data I'm gonna be using to train a llm for segmented based visual identification how should I store the data?
>>101501807No, just someone who noticed all the unfair image comparisons out there. Not sure about AI stuff, I mostly just HS2 my nights away.
>>101501846Hey man fair enough, I've seen a lot of filesize anons so I figured I'd shoot my shot Enjoy your goonery
>>101501726It does even better with vectorized anime, I don't understand why /g/ hates it so much.
>>101501726Does AVIF have lossless compression? I got lossless JXL working pretty easily. WEBP had janky shit with transparency that I wasn't able to fix and it had less compression than JXL about 60% of the time.
The theoretical usecase of av1 is 4chan allowing it in the webm container and you trying to squeeze out as much as you can from 3MB.There's no usecase for lossy av1/webp for the end user. They exist for giant CDN owning corporations to shave pennies.
>>101501964AFAIK not really since you're going from YUV to RGB colorspace.>>101501985Lower file size images load faster. JXL has progressive encoding but it reduces quality further. There's work on making AVIF progressively load images as well but it's still experimental AFAIK.
>>101501807The model will see things that you as a human cannot, so you should do all that you can to avoid introducting new loss to whatever images you have. You want it to learn images, not compression artifacts.To save the most space without introducing new loss, convert JPG and PNG to JXL. If you've got WEBP, then only convert to JXL if you can identify that it's lossless, otherwise leave it as WEBP.t. also training a model with a fuckton of images>>101502039>JXL has progressive encoding but it reduces quality further.It'd be more accurate to say it increases the file size since you set a target quality rather than size. But it doesn't increase it by much, and even then, that's only if you want it to be more progressive than it is by default. JXL is always progressive just because of the order it stores data.
>>101501726150kB jpeg version would look like this
>>101501726perfect audiovisual losslessness or GTFOMKV gang rise up.
Tried to replicate it using higher quality and the slowest aom preset.The face is basically indistinguishable from the source, but the background gradient looks slightly off in AVIF. The BPP is unusually low either way.
>>101501726Ah the hourly pixdaiz avif shill thread!!! My favorite.
>>101502543I can store JPEGs and MP3s in a MKV just fine.
Someone asked for a source on this the other day. It's a behemoth of a RAW image, but here it is in PNG form.https://files.catbox.moe/q5prw3.pngSee if you can replicate this.
>>101502664you could but it'd be pointless. why uncompress a lossy format? it's lossy and big then. MKV is made for APNG and FLAC.i wish i had a gui to make it with. any recommendations? no subscription slop plz.
>>101502699>uncompressMKV is just a container. It doesn't make the contents larger, other than the slight container overhead. JPEGs remain JPEGs, they don't get converted into losslessly-compressed raster images.
>>101502532>>101502644It's crazy that websites haven't started using AVIF for at least computer generated graphics yet. Although I get being cautious after the webp security nightmare problem. Google only seems partially responsible for development so hopefully history won't repeat itself.>>101502653>>101502670I'm not who you think I am and I do plan on using other image sources in future tests. Not sure about tree bark though, doesn't seem all that exciting.
1080p game screenshot in 9691 bytes.https://files.catbox.moe/zaf16l.avifThat's less than 100 milliseconds worth of CD audio.Now why would you do this? I have no idea.
>>101503114At this point I doubt most websites would even need ads to survive. A donation drive once a month would probably be enough to keep the lights on.That said most images won't compress this well.
>>101502543>losslessness>MKV MKV is just a container, what does it have to do with lossy compression when you can put whatever you want in it?
>>101503154It's a no-brainer for thumbnails. You can get away with 1KB per thread image and have them look better. ebussy's face alone is more 5 KB on the catalog, and there are 150 threads up at any given time. Imagine the savings.
>>101503114Now try again with this image:https://files.catbox.moe/3lm1hd.png
>>101503268>Pick same quality target as prior image>Several fucking MB'sYeah, this shit is dangerous without enforcing a size cap.
Reminder the OP is Daiz who is behind every single AVIF shill post.If you shill for AVIF, then you're a retarded newfag who were groomed by Daiz and you should therefore not get mad when someone calls you Daiz.He stopped using his trip code after someone looked into an archive and discovered that he's behind every AVIF shill post, something that he genuinely didn't expect anyone to do because 4chan is full of newfags who don't know what an archive is or can't do any research.Expect lots of samefagging from the narcissist.Also, he's probably not getting paid by Google.Before he got called out:https://desuarchive.org/_/search/text/avif/end/2024-02-24/Getting called out:https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/99167108Aftermath:https://desuarchive.org/_/search/text/avif/start/2024-02-25/The reason he responds so quickly is because he uses a bot to notify him and ChatGPT or something similar to automatically spam threads. There are posts on /a/ posted well over a decade ago mentioning how creepy he is:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20PwaJYcnukhttps://desuarchive.org/_/search/text/daiz%20summoning/order/asc/
AVIF is actual dog shit because it's nor ab image format but a video codec.Thus it adds nothing of value.Supports only up to x4000 pixels.Only beats JXL in size if you distort the quality of the image until it's at 0.4 BPP.Gets beaten by a 30 year old image format.
https://github.com/AOMediaCodec/libavif/releasesMake sure to update to the latest libavif for saving in AVIF, the world best image format that is killing jpeg cucks 30 year old deprecated format
Imagine losing to JXL while spamming the board to groom newfags to hate it and Google trying to kill it
Here are Daiz's main arguments against JXL:- You're supposed to like AVIF because Google supports it- You're supposed to hate JXL because Apple supports it despite Google funding its development and Apple supporting AVIF- You're supposed to hate JXL because of a patent that has nothing to do with it- You're supposed to hate JXL because he claims Apple put malware in it- You're supposed to like AVIF because it reduces bandwidth and electrical costs and Google will make more money- You're a corporate bootlicker if you prefer JXL because it's faster, smaller and less resource demanding than AVIF- You're supposed to like AVIF because every video will be re-encoded to AV1 with a BPP that is five times lower than the average BPP, computing power is free and people like to count pixels- You're supposed to like AVIF because he claims JXL will never have hardware acceleration- And you're mentally ill if you disagree to anything
>>101503746Are you retarded? jpeg garbage is losing badly to AVIF, looks worse than AVIF and doesn't even look good compared to original source
AV1/AVIF is already obsolete by its creators.Can't make this shit up.https://www.phoronix.com/news/AVIF-Experimental-AV2AV1 Community admits AV1 is a failure: says AV2 will hopefully succeed where AV1 has stumbledhttps://www.reddit.com/r/AV1/comments/12b1wcl/is_it_safe_to_say_av1_for_video_and_opus_for/https://www.reddit.com/r/AV1/comments/12dwa4y/nvenc_av1_doesnt_seem_to_be_the_best_for_high/>AV1 is not good for encoding movies, loses too much detail. x265 and even x264 are still superior for movie encoding at Bluray-level bitrates. AV1 is only good for making YIFY-size encodes which sacrifice detail.>VVC is already easily beating AV1 at compression and so AV2 is currently trying to beat VVC's numbers>users of AV1 admit that encoding times are still not worth the end result, especially at moderate to high bitrates.>one of the lead AV1 engineers (or maybe even someone above the engineer level at AOM) said they regretted "launching" the codec without having a hardware decoder designed and handed off to chip-makers to implement.>reference AV1 hardware implementation was far too complex for widespread deployment across all cost tiers and the answer from the industry was "we have to do this again completely from scratch“, which surely hurt AV1 adoption by 1-2 years>since AV1 does the best job at the lowest bitrates, it encourages companies like Netflix and Youtube to bitstarve their videos>H.264 is much more widely supported and requires less energy to encode and decode and has proven so strong a long-tern performer that most companies don't see the need to rush to get AV1 supported. >almost everybody in the AV1 community has given up on AV1 and is waiting for AV2 to improve upon AV1's failures>AV2 won't be ready for another 4-5 years.
>>101503774>>AV2 won't be ready for another 4-5 years.In other words, AV1 will be relevant for long.6MB: https://files.catbox.moe/sosczh.webmFuck VP9, and fuck H264.
When Daiz shills something harmful, his English skills become nonexistent.
>>101503809It loses details. Especially chat text.
Newfag here, can anyone explain to me why people get into flame wars over image codecs? I can get arguing over operating systems because you can use different ones personally, but it's not like you can change what browsers will support in the future.
>>101503933Literally a few posts above you, you retarded newfag The tldr is 4chan is infested by you retarded newfags and one dedicated shill (Daiz) wants to popularize a ehitty image format (AVIF) by grooming your ilk because you retards can't read and desperately try to fit in
>>101503932>Chat textWhat are you talking about? UI elements are the one thing AV1 has seriously impressed me with. It makes sense, for the codec has things like this.https://gitlab.com/AOMediaCodec/SVT-AV1/-/blob/master/Docs/Appendix-Intra-Block-Copy.mdAre you using fast presets? Some crucial features are turned off.
>>101501726>Comparison >It all looks the sameLol why is this so common these days...
>>101503894>his English skills become nonexistentAny example? I've got tons of ammo from /int/ ready to be used against him.
>>101504057Yes here >>101503809
>>101503756>>101503997Daiz is known to be a JPEG XL supporter you fucking retard
>>101502797>It's crazy that websites haven't started using AVIFThey do, you probably have it disabled in your browser because most defaults prefer webp over avif so you get served with webp instead.>>101503774>improving things is le bad
>>101504204Ah yes. spamming 4chan to groom newfags into accepting AVIF makes you into an JXL supporterKill yourself you fucking retard
>>101504223There it is again. Your English skills become nonexistent when you shill harmful substances.
>>101504089I don't get it.
>>101503933There are mainly two shitposters at work here: someone completely clueless that has decided that they will not tolerate any image format related threads on /g/ and actively shit them up by making stuff up about AVIF, and a schizo that thinks that everyone is Daiz (of the 10-bit AVC infamy; has nothing to do with these threads nowadays).Just don't bother with these threads, they're unusable.
>>101504243>Accuses others of lacking English skills when they reply to a post that foregoes past tense where appropriateThe irony.
>>101504349You never do.
>>101504204pixDAIZ is not Daiz. Good luck convincing the anti-Daiz schizo that, though.
>>101504390Who are you quoting, Daiz?
>>101504402>ESL projects and gets mad when called outCute.
>>101504384>>101504399>y y y y y y y y you are the s s s s schizo if you d d d d d d d dont think s s s s s someone is perfectly impersonating d d d d d d d daizdamage control
>>101504410Seriously, who are you quoting, Daiz?
>>101504413>Perfectly impersonatinglollmao, evenEven retards can see past the thin veil.
>>101504413>>101504421These posts and related are actually the real Daiz pretending to be an unhinged shitposter to associate such claims with insane posters and automatically dismiss them on sight.
>>101504423>i s s s s s swear i'm not daiz you s s s s s schizolollmao, evenEven retards can spot you
>>101504421Literally you if you cannot even parse that.The two times you put English skills into question, the posts you were replying to linked to the same paragraph with poor grammar. That's hypocrisy.
>>101504431Would've believed you if 4chan wasn't full of retarded newfags who think they're an oldfag for falling for a hoax that Reddit invented paragraph, something that pissed Daiz off almost a decade ago, hence why Daiz spams AVIF shill posts because at some point every newfag is going to think they'll be an oldfag for supporting AVIF https://desuarchive.org/_/search/text/reddit%20spacing%20/username/daiz/
According to Daiz we should eat poop because poop can always be improved
>>101504442Who are you quoting, Daiz?
>>101504434>Ah yes, Daiz is totally playing 5D chess and pretending to be another person impersonating himself, going so far as masquerading as a tech-illiterate Windows 10 cuck who can barely use the command prompt
>>101504477Uh oh, the bot broke and is infinitely looping!
>>101504480>Ah yes, Daiz isn't a narcissist who lies pathologically, promotes child rape and claims to be the most moral and righteous man in the world
>>101504492Uh oh, Daiz keeps self projecting!
>>101504503>Every lunatic surely must be the same person. There can't possibly be others just like him.And for the record.https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/94046693/#94053491
>>101504503This post triggered Daiz real good.because he didn't reply to it yet
>>101504527You literally repeated a post letter by letter. >>101504410>>101504477Keep coping.
>>101504534>g g g g guys someone is perfectly p p p p pretending to be me>i a a a a am popular >y y y you schizo if no b b b believe me ok?
>>101504545You literally need to go back, tourist
>>101504535>>101504534Embarrassing.
>>101504557Concession accepted
>>101504558>you must be a shill by updating every board for new posts every millisecond and use a bot to spam for youOne day you'll face the wall, Daiz. Point still stands that it triggered you because it took your bot four minutes to respond.
>>101504579Try learning English not from ESL newfags and without "pretending" to be an idiot and you'll see how fucking stupid you look right now lmao
>>101503114you probably have seen low res you are not gay are you video, that gives you a idea how pimped fullhd is
>>101501726jpeg xl is better for high quality images. avif is better for low quality images. Different formats optimized for different things.
>>101502670In the top right corner of the attached screenshot a portion of the trunk is so blurry that it almost becomes a solid color.Hence the example does not even scratch the true top of AVIF's abilities at the given bitrate.Somebody must have refrained (intentionally or not) from using 30-bit pixels (10-bit colour components) and also from using a better (albeit slower) preset.> https://files.catbox.moe/q5prw3.pngThanks, but the message https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/101473063/#101475167 suggests it was https://www.kenrockwell.com/trips/2009-10/images/L1004432-cs4.jpg referenced from the page https://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/m9/sample-photos-3.htm originally.I'll use that JPEG as the source.An AVIF with better shadows and midtones (and even at 2.48 bpp instead of 2.58 bpp) can be created from that source JPEG.The photo is 5212×3468 pixels, and thus “not more than 2.48 bpp” means “5603316 bytes or smaller”.Please have a look at the file https://qu.ax/bOVq.avif which is 5570618 bytes (and thus below 2.47 bpp) and nevertheless it looks much better than the blurry example attached above.
>>101503710> you're a retarded newfag who were groomed by DaizYou're the last person I want to hear that from.You're either the one 4chan user that's been influenced by Daiz the most or even a samefag.> Getting called out:> https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/99167108Nope, there was too much of calling me Daiz unreasonably while the real pixDAIZ was still with us and using his tripcode. And also this:> This is 2024. Drives are 20TB and growing. Internet speed is hitting 1Gbps at the home. If anything it isn't the file format that needs changing.This is 4chan and the file size limit at /g/ is still the same 4194304 bytes (check https://a.4cdn.org/boards.json if you don't believe me).You might even found out that the real limit is vague because it can be hit by files of even lower filesizes.(For example, the file https://qu.ax/OjUf.jpg is 4192057 bytes. But that JPEG cannot be posted here because of… reasons.)That limit is never going to change as drastically as the drives' sizes. No terabytes or even gigabytes on 4chan.Hence the necessity of the new formats: WebP, AVIF, JXL.
>>101503719> Thus it adds nothing of value.Better lossy compression than JPEG or WebP could ever offer.Supported in every version of every major Web browser for almost six months already.30-bit pixels are supported for the first time in the history of the Web.Lossless and easy remuxes of AV1 keyframes are possible with FFmpeg.> Supports only up to x4000 pixels.Open https://qu.ax/aUTE.avif and see 3998×3666=14656668 pixels (more than FOURTEEN megapixels).Open https://qu.ax/petf.avif and see 5000×8000 pixels (FORTY MEGAPIXELS).> Only beats JXL in size if you distort the quality of the image until it's at 0.4 BPP.Open https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/101337204/#101339081 and compare https://qu.ax/qymd.avif against https://files.catbox.moe/w85y14.jxl and see that AVIF beats JXL at 1.4293 bpp.(Also >>101505180 is a bit below 2.47 bpp.)> Gets beaten by a 30 year old image format.Not really.https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/webp-avif-comparison.html
>>101504624Learn the rules of past tense, grammarlet.
>>101504243Quote the part that was wrong
>>101501726useless format
>>101501735What is name of this Software?
>>101505329He can't.To an ESL, everything right looks wrong.
>>101501735>Picrel is original PNGNo, it's not. That's the 4chan CDN version of your uploaded original PNG. You should catbox it like you did with the avif and jxl.
>>101505740Doesn't matter. The important part is the pixel data, not the bitstream.
>>101505180>>101505191>>101505211>>101505329>>101505212>>101505708>>101505756The good.ole autistic screeching, schizo rambling and samefagging from Daiz.
>Supported in every version of every major Web browser for almost six months already.This AVIF being obsoleteYou spamming AVIF shills posts to groom retarded newfagsAnd still nobody wants to use your favorite image format (AVIF) over JPEG XLIt takes at most 4 months to get 4chan to do anything with your level of.spamAnd you've hilariously failed spectacularly Why do you even exist at this point, Daiz?
>>101505782Meds.
>>101503268It's 2790×4140 pixels (larger than a 4K screen) and it's also a scan of CMYK colour halftones which are not easily compressed.That PNG should also have been interlaced such as https://qu.ax/Piog.png because otherwise waiting for almost 28 megabytes is not fun.Having said all that, an AVIF encoding of such scan still could be reasonably brought below a megabyte and well below 1 bpp.For example, https://qu.ax/EObd.avif is already 1033767 bytes ×8 / 2790 px / 4140 px = 0.716 bpp and slightly less than a megabyte. Still looks reasonably good if compared to the original PNG. The encoder performed some “smart blur” of halftones in the shadows and that's visible, but it's not like that destroyed the picture.>>101505933> Why do you even exist at this point, Daiz?Imagine this: at this point DAIZ DIES in your head and you start seeing real people discussing real compression problems on 4chan.Also meds.
>Look mommy>I used the fastest method to convert pictures to JXL>And the slowest method to convert pictures>I'm so.smart>After doing it on three million pictures >I found one single AVIF that was one byte smaller than JXL>Also the AVIF picture looking like shit looks good.to me because I like shit>This means AVIF is better than JXLdaiz logic
>Imagine this: at this point DAIZ DIES in your head and you start seeing real people discussing real compression problems on 4chan.>Also meds.Imagine if you stopped imagining delusions by taking your meds and not getting yourself.groomed by Daiz, you fucking newfag
>>101505933> And still nobody wants to use your favorite image format (AVIF) over JPEG XLYou do not understand where you are.4chan needs WebP support long before anyone could choose between using AVIF and JXL here.
>Imagine this: at this point DAIZ DIES in your head and you start seeing real people discussing real compression problems on 4chan.Daiz.never fails. When he shills harmful substances, what little English skills he had gets completely vaporized. So let's figure out what Daiz just said. Is he saying he's not real and we're mentally ill for believing he's real? We will never know.
Note how Daiz hasn't converted his pictures to AVIF Almost as if he's a shill who either gets paid by Google or expects Google to pay him for his shill work>Why can't Daiz shill for free?He's literally greedy. So greedy that he lies about working for a rapist who has "greedy" as a last name, lmaohttps://www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-grady-43987119a
Holy shit, he's fucking breaking down for real.
Funny how you can clearly see the samefagging sessions here
>>101506612Indeed. You didn't hide the posts you made. You've done this in previous threads. Funny how you just humiliated yourself.
Thanks, but I'm sticking with jpegxl.
>>101502532why not post the original thing? why post a downsample? you didn't think this through.>.jpg 150KB
>i swear im not samefagging and angry>look at these posts i angrily hid and the (You)s removedDaiz is buckbroken
>>101501726I CAN'T NOTICED SHIT BECAUSE I'M SEVERLY MYOPIC.
>>101506704oh shit, byte metrics error, the file is indeed 150KB or KiB ?
Sorry kid, maybe in 10 years 4chan will support webp
>>101506691I didn't hide anything. I just added the word "daiz" to my filter because I couldn't care less and that's the result.
>>101506719Who are you quoting, Daiz?
>>101504399All 3 are the same person
>>101506757> byte metrics errorThat's not a byte metrics error.4chan recompresses JPEG and thus makes them larger when they're created by a more efficient encoder than 4chan's.For example, the file size limit at /g/ is still the same 4194304 bytes (check https://a.4cdn.org/boards.json if you don't believe me). And the file https://qu.ax/OjUf.jpg is 4192057 bytes. But that JPEG cannot be posted here because of the recompression.Hence the necessity of the new formats: WebP, AVIF, JXL.
>>101505180Anon, the PNG is a conversion from that source you posted. You did exactly what I tried to prevent by using the JPEG.>it looks much better than the blurry example attached aboveStill looks kinda blurry to me.Either way, the replicability depends on the RAW conversion process, so that's a factor on top of the existing compression.
>>101506141> I used the fastest method to convert pictures to JXLWho does that here?If you believe that you can improve any of the posted JXL files by simply using a slower preset, then you're always welcome to try.> And the slowest method to convert picturesThere's nothing wrong with that.The author of >>101501726 was wrong to think “realistically that's the maximum compression any sane person would use with AVIF” about the fourth speed.
Don't you queers get tired of talking about some fag e-celeb nobody has given a shit about for like a decade? It was funny the first few times but now it's turning into cringe spam we have to start regex-ing out.OP used 80℅ quality for AVIF which realistically won't be commonly used for the web because it would be deemed a waste of bandwidth
>>101507796Also I forgot to comment about picrel: if any of you REALLY want to shill AVIF use sharp YUV with 420 instead of 444. You'll save 50℅ on file size and it won't look much worse than the full 444 version.
>>101507517oh fuck, newfag here, browsing since 2010,that was some heavy esoteric knowledge that I wasn't aware of.very interesting, I always thought that they just left the images alone and they just generated the thumbnails
>>101507856Jpeg hardware decoders can't handle images made with mozjpeg but here on /g/ we love pretending that jpeg hardware decoders are unicorn fairytales le evil AVIF shills tell unsuspecting JXL supporters.
>>101507985Do you really feel secure when you post a sheet marked “MAY CONTAIN U.S. AND INTERNATIONAL EXPORT CONTROLLED INFORMATION” here?I am currently reading this from the Russian Federation.
The interaction and average PPT increased 10-20x on /g/ when the site removed the unique IP counter earlier this year.I wonder why that is?
>>101507796>>101507822Want it to be even better? Use constant-luminance matrix coefficients.Good luck finding support, though.
>>101508633>The interaction and average PPTIn the avif shill threads*
>>101507796>Don't you queers get tired of talking about some fag e-celebIt's literally only one person who is really obsessed for some reason. I don't even get why. Some dude on the internet likes a file format? So what? Who gives a shit?
>>101502532testhttps://litter.catbox.moe/u68izx.jpg
I use jpegxl
>>101501726>469KB PNG can store a 150 KB JXL + 150 KB AVIF + 3.8 MB PNGPNGchads cant stop winning
yeah png won this one lads
>>101502532is this using the new miracle jpeg encoder from google?
>>101509774no but >>101509092 is
>>101505635Honey Select 2, like he said in the OP
>>101501726Can you do a webp comparison?
>>101509847welp that's much worse than i expected
>>101509933here's somethinghttps://litter.catbox.moe/huyjy0.webp>>101509942I might be wrong but jpg isn't good or made for optimizing this sort of images, though the point was never to compete with jxl, avif or webp
>>101510025WTF this webp looks better than the jpeg xl of OP...
>>101509932he didnt say it in the op at all aside from the acronym
>>101510060but the gradients look worse and the image looks liquified at close
>>101510129Is there a way to reduce those blocky artefacts on jpeg xl? If you can do that then people wouldn't be so appaled by the results.If not I guess this is one area where using a video codec for images isn't a completely retarded YUV to RGB nightmare.
>>101510155I don't really know, i tried encoding it myself and messing with the filters i could find but the result isn't any better than op's https://litter.catbox.moe/cjoiw8.jxl
>>101510025>I might be wrong but jpg isn't good or made for optimizing this sort of images, though the point was never to compete with jxl, avif or webpi know, but when jpegli was announced, it was said that it could create jpgs with a quality comparable to modern formats like jxl. i guess that's not always the case.
>>101510636idk from where u heard this from but this initially what i looked at when it came out https://opensource.googleblog.com/2024/04/introducing-jpegli-new-jpeg-coding-library.html
ah, shucks
AVIF WONjpeg cucks literally in shambles
bigsisters, what's our answer?
>>101509090>>101507796I guess 4chan is full of so many retarded newfags that you can fool them with your samefagging by attacking yourself in a thread where people explained how you samefag and why it means someone is a retarded newfag if they fall for your samefagging, Daiz
no matter how much daiz spams 4chan, I'll never use avif because im not low iq
>P P P P P P P PLEASE USE AVIF>I C C C C C C CONVERTED ONE MILLION PICTURES TO AVIF>A A A A AND ONE AVIF FILE HAD 1 BYTE LESS THAN THE JXL FILE>E E E EVERYONE KNOWS GOOD QUALITY MEANS OVER SATURATION, BLURRINESS AND PIXELATION>T T T THIS MEANS AVIF SUPERIOR>S S S S SO PLEASE ACCEPT THIS OBSOLETE IMAGE FORMAT
>>101511131whomst are you quoting??????????????????????????
>>101511200I don't think this is your delinquent tranny. He used 80% quality which is unironically unfair to AVIF for comparison purposes.
>>101501726200kb jxl looks way better than 150kb and 200kb avif. Your test is a meme
>>101511303This
>>101511291Are you legally blind?>>101511303The 0 to 100 quality scale on AVIF is mapped to the 0-63 quantization scale of AV1. Some crude math tells us that 1/4 of 63 is ~16 which maps to a quality value of 75.Quant 16 in AV1 is already EXTREMELY overkill for video. Thus nobody serious about shilling AVIF would ever use a quality setting this high. It's completely anti-thetical to shilling the format.
>>101505740if you add ?anytext to the end of an image URL, you will get the original file.
?anytext
>>101505740Pixels are the same.>>101509690It still is above 150 kilobytes = 153600 bytes.Attached here is the pngquant result that fits 150 kilobytes.
Oh, now Daiz is gaslighting newfags with AVIF lossless being better than JXL and lossy doesn't change pixels
>>101511645AVIF can't even do true lossless RGB because it's literally stuck in YUV colorspace. That said I don't think true lossless image formats are ever going to take off on the internet because they're not really useful outside of production especially since vectorized image formats or whatever rendering engine you're using are going to be exponentially more useful than some bullshit raster image format.If I want to search up a pair of anime tiddies on the internet I'm not going to be interested in wasting more than a few hundred KB of bandwidth let alone storage.
>S S STOP CALLING ME DAIZ>LOSSLY C C C C C CONVERTING PICTURES TO AVIF KEEPS THE PIXELS UNMODIFIED >YOU'RE B B B BLIND IF YOU DON'T LIKE OVERSATURATION, BLURRINESS AND PIXELATION>B B B BECAUSE I SAY SO>O O O O O OKAY!?
>>101511780Why are you so butthurt?
Behold,the superiority of WEBPsee and weep, only 150KB,practically lossless>https://files.catbox.moe/grea0c.webp
Attached here is an alternative (rate-distortion optimized in Oklab colour space) lossy PNG in 150 kilobytes generated by https://github.com/richgel999/rdopng>>101511756> AVIF can't even do true lossless RGB because it's literally stuck in YUV colorspace.That's not really true.Try your favourite comparison tool (for example, magick compare -metric ae source.png result.avif) using >>101501735 as the source PNG and https://qu.ax/bDp.avif as the resulting lossless AVIF.Pixels are the same.
>>101511939It ends up being this weird back and forth between 2 colorspaces so you can never be 100% certain that nothing was actually changed because you're at the mercy of whatever handles converting YUV back to RGB. Maybe YOUR specific PC hardware/software didn't fuckup the conversion but there's no guarantee that someone else's PC/soft will be the same.It's much better if image editors work with quality 100 444 10-bit lossy AVIF. Yeah 0.0001% of quaity loss will happen on each edit but at least you KNOW that you haven't left the YUV colorspace.
>>101512058>>101511939>>101511935>>101511815daiz spam
Ok in this age of 1Gbps internet and 20+ TB hdds WTF is the point of new image compression formats?. Turn off JPEG compression when you save your image in photoshop and be done with it. WTF you can download a 100MB file in no time flat anymore. Instead of new formats how about making those file sizes and image dimensions go up instead hmm?. Poster size it straight up. 24x36.
>>101512115suck my cock
I believe that >>101511935 is a joke.A real WebP encoding of the source >>101501735 would actually be pretty good under 153600 bytes.(Of course, it won't reach the level of AVIF or even the level of JXL, but nevertheless it takes only one look at such WebP to understand why 4chan needs some WebP support asap.)For example, https://qu.ax/tqvX.webp is 153388 bytes (and thus 0.1479 bpp). Its PNG decoding is attached here.>>101512058What are you talking about?Lossless AVIF files never use any YUV, period.(They might start using YCgCo-R in the future, but only as an option and with the attached cost of losing compatibility with literally every decoder that exists today.)
>>101512158Bandwidth costs money you dumbass.
>>101512168>Lossless AVIF files never use any YUV, period.source?
>>101512158> Ok in this age of 1Gbps internet and 20+ TB hdds WTF is the point of new image compression formats?This is 4chan and the file size limit at /g/ is still the same 4194304 bytes (check https://a.4cdn.org/boards.json if you don't believe me).You might even found out that the real limit is vague because it can be hit by files of even lower filesizes.(For example, the file https://qu.ax/OjUf.jpg is 4192057 bytes. But that JPEG cannot be posted here because of… reasons. See >>101507517 for details.)That limit is never going to change as drastically as the drives' sizes. No terabytes or even gigabytes on 4chan.Hence the necessity of the new formats: WebP, AVIF, JXL.
>>101512190https://old.reddit.com/r/AV1/comments/kupvvl/firefox_will_support_the_avif_image_format_based/givfb5h/
>>101512247>>101512208>>101512168>>101512160why do you spam, daiz?
>>101512298to groom newfags
>>101503756>Here are Daiz's main arguments against JXL:>- You're supposed to like AVIF because Google supports it>- You're supposed to hate JXL because Apple supports it despite Google funding its development and Apple supporting AVIF>- You're supposed to hate JXL because of a patent that has nothing to do with it>- You're supposed to hate JXL because he claims Apple put malware in it>- You're supposed to like AVIF because it reduces bandwidth and electrical costs and Google will make more money>- You're a corporate bootlicker if you prefer JXL because it's faster, smaller and less resource demanding than AVIF>- You're supposed to like AVIF because every video will be re-encoded to AV1 with a BPP that is five times lower than the average BPP, computing power is free and people like to count pixels>- You're supposed to like AVIF because he claims JXL will never have hardware acceleration>- And you're mentally ill if you disagree to anythingReminder because newfags are incapable of reading more than the OP and last post
>>101512208uping the webm limit from 4MB to 6MB for /wsg/ already causes lag for me sometimes.>>101512247Do you have a non-faggot source we can take seriously?
AVIF only supports up to x4000 pixels and loses to JXL and webpHence the necessity of the new formats: WebP, AVIF, JXL
>>101512339> Do you have a non-faggot source we can take seriously?Look, I can't take YOU seriously after you've posted >>101512058.Maybe you should not trust any damned sources and learn from experience instead.Try finding one such specific PC hardware/software where the source PNG >>101501735 and the lossless AVIF https://qu.ax/bDp.avif won't decode to the same pixels.>>101512375> AVIF only supports up to x4000 pixelsOpen https://qu.ax/aUTE.avif and see 3998×3666=14656668 pixels (more than FOURTEEN megapixels).Open https://qu.ax/petf.avif and see 5000×8000 pixels (FORTY MEGAPIXELS).
>>101512158>we have powerful hardware and storage so who cares about writing efficient software and compressionweb"dev" mindset
>>101512158yes, this stupid mindset is the reason video games are 300GB now>hurr durr>storage and internet are cheap, thus I ship uncompressed assets>durrrrrrrrrr
>>101512683god bless fitgirl
>>101501726> In addition I used speed 4 instead of speed 0 since realistically that's the maximum compression any sane person would use with AVIF.Objection!I used speed 0 and the result is https://qu.ax/dwMb.avifThat is 149838 bytes ×8 / 3840 px / 2160 px = 0.1445 bpp.
>>101513067That's expected, slower presets only seem to matter when severely bitstarved BUT it is odd that this is not the case at 0.15 BPP...
>>101511618anyon i really don't care a whole lot about 3kb for a meme img, it's close enough
>>101512158>>101512683>>101512656This. Web dev shitskinbrains are so retarded they can't into multiplication. If you have 1024 jpegs 1 MB each, you need 1 GB of space. If your format is 25% more efficient, you'd only need 768 MB. Repeat ten times, a thousand times, a million times, and the benefits are obvious to anyone who isn't a boot camp normalturd shit for brains goynigger golem.
>>101503774This is like saying WebP is obsoleted by its creators because there's been some WebPv2 project with good results.There's no way to use that experiment in the Web unless the experiment is finished and the new standard has some final (or at least semi-final) form.Meanwhile 4chan should support at least AVIF because it offers a lot.Better lossy compression than JPEG or WebP could ever offer.Supported in every version of every major Web browser for almost six months already.30-bit pixels are supported for the first time in the history of the Web. (Earlier 48-bit pixels were supported in PNG files, but that was an obvious overkill.)Lossless and easy remuxes of AV1 keyframes are possible with FFmpeg.
>>101513459If several extra kilobytes are not an issue, here's an alternative lossy PNG result (from pngquant) that is monochromatic but has some Floyd—Steinberg dithering and thus better midtones.It's 157198 bytes.
>>101507856Hi, John!
libjxl has been most valuable to me, and despite dunking on avif a lot, I hope avifboys get the most use out of their format.Your shit sucks ass at lossless though, gotta say.
>>101514324I guess jpeg xl could stick around for it's lossless compression but I doubt most people will tolerate 10X file size for perceptually no quality improvement especially once you reach 4K resolution.btw the rat is nice breath of fresh air after the non-stop nigger frog spam. I appreciate that.
>>101513615>>101513067>>101512418Fuck off and die already, Daiz
>Open https://qu.ax/aUTE.avif and see 3998×3666=14656668 pixels (more than FOURTEEN megapixels).>>Open https://qu.ax/petf.avif and see 5000×8000 pixels (FORTY MEGAPIXELS).You're not Daiz.You've never samefagged.You've never spammed AVIF should be used because hardware decoder.You're not illiterate even though you've multiple times copy pasted how the AVIF hardware decoder only supports up to x4000 pixels because you think it says it supports more than x4000 pixels.Every single AVIF shill post isn't made by you.You are an individual! despite repeating Daiz word for word and copying his mannerism
Isn't the AVIF resolution cap just a soft limit? You can always exceed it by essentially merging multiple pictures together. Not ideal, but it works for those edge cases.
>>101515639It's to ensure hw decoding works. Although it does result in tiling artefacts it's supposed to be mitigated by sharp YUV. See image in >>101507796Also there's 2 hw decode limits. 4K max for baseline profile and 8K max for advanced profile.
>>101513615>Lossless and easy remuxes of AV1 keyframes are possible with FFmpeg.Nobody gives a fuck about being able to losslessly extract less than a fraction of 1% of the frames in a video, kys faggot. And that is a very, very generous estimate, 120 keyframe interval, 60 FPS. It's probably going to be 240-300 @ 24-30 FPS, so 0.1% of the frames in a video.The odds you'll be able to actually screenshot a frame you give a fuck about (REMINDER THAT THE SCENE DETECTION IN LIBAOM IS DOGSHIT) is only slightly higher than the odds you'll stop being a fucking shill, daiz.
>>101515778NTA but the idea to use this is with 1-2 second keyframe interval VOD not 4chin webms compressed as much as possible.Nobody really knows if this will take off or not because it's relatively a new thing. It could end up being a meme or maybe not, nobody is absolutely certain.
No matter how much better AVIF looks in a given comparison, it always seems to have a subtle shift in color. Even if I convert from and to PNG using avifdec, I can see the difference from afar. I'm using 10-bit too.Please tell me it's a bug and not a gaping flaw of AV1 compression.
>>101515878Are you using CICP 1/13/1? That should have been set asthe default IMHO.
>>101515908Hey, you're right, it uses M6 (BT601) by default for some reason.I tried --cicp 1/13/1, and while it does look different, it's still not right.8-bit doesn't seem to have this problem.
>>101515967>>101515878Posting the results.Source image.
>>101516006avifenc -s 0 -d 10 -q 85 --cicp 1/13/1 + avifdec
>>101516023avifenc -s 0 -q 85 --cicp 1/13/1 + avifdec
I have been converting images to jxl in parallel for seven hours10 minutes ago my system locked up a few times trying to convert a huge imageit is still not donepray for my machine bros
>>101516941the specific image is done, the whole process of converting everything is not
>>101513808for a second there I got spooked. Hi ;-)
>>101516941jxl is very, very, very computing intensive. both converting and opening them unfortunately. I moved my old pics to jxl a while ago and it saved me so much space. but after checking webp, I think I should just convert them into webp, because they open so much faster.
>>101503719> Only beats JXL in size if you distort the quality of the image until it's at 0.4 BPP.The original poster is patiently showcasing the images where even 150 kilobytes ×1024 ×8 / 3840 pixels / 2160 pixels = 0.148 bpp are fine.Such images don't really seem distorted in AVIF.
>>101515778> kys faggotkys faggot>REMINDER THAT THE SCENE DETECTION IN LIBAOM IS DOGSHITWhat the fuck are you even talking about?It's the second half of 2024, surely SVT-AV1 is much more popular than libaom (because faster) and also people know they can just use an external scene detection (such as https://github.com/Breakthrough/PySceneDetect/releases for example) and then feed the results to their “ffmpeg -svtav1-params enable-force-key-frames=1 -force_key_frames:v …”.
jpeg cucks are so pathetic and shitpost in AVIF winning threads because they are so mad their inferior garbage has been methodically proven with screenshots to be SHIT
>>101518386Anyone clinging to 1990's technology is just uninformed and/or autistic because they don't like change.Don't take their opinion as anything more than what it is, a whiny cry of ignorance. The same with the stupid idiots who hate on webp for some reason? And they keep making anti-webp threads for years now.-- You dense idiots, it's just an image format, mosty better than jpg, supports transparency, smaller filesize, 99% of all the software supports it. Why the fuck are you even complaining? For nothing, just because you are so fucking dumb.
>>101515639AVIF only supports up to x4000 pixels because anything higher would break the hardware decoder.When you exceed x4000 pixels, it starts taping the tiles together and you can see the borders.But do we need more than x4000 pixels?AVIF has hardware decoder.AVIF can do 4k under 100 kb.Hence the necessity of the new formats: WebP, AVIF, JXL.
>>101515847>NTAno one believes you daiz, you samefagging kike.God I wish 4chan never removed the IP counter
>>101518146>T T T T THE AVERAGE BPP BEING OVER 1.4 DOESN'T MATTER>I L L L L LIKE TO EAT SHIT> S S S S SO YOU SHOULD TOO>EATING SHIT D D D D DONT REALLY SEEM DISTORTEDGreat argument
>>101516941--num-threads=1JXL is the future. All other image formats are irrelevant.
>>101518826Yes, modern image formats like AVIF have better compression and save more bandwidth/storage space than jpeg xl. What's your point?
>>101501726>Computer graphics might not be something JXL is good at compared to AVIF.you might be right but renderings are usually done on end devices so optimizing a transport for them has limited usesif you look at photographic material you'll see that they're about equal in quality with jxl offering the added benefit of more features, opening it up to more use cases
>>1015191784K HS2 renders aren't exactly a walk in the park for tablets. Also stop acting like IRL can compete with computer graphics, we're getting to a point where all the makeup in the world still isn't enough.
>>101519157You forgot to add>if you rape the image quality But of course, adding that would defeat the make it harder for you to groom newfags, Daiz
In one post, Daiz says we should use AVIF aka rape the image quality to help corporates make more moneyIn the next post, Daiz calls you a corporate bootlicker if you suggest JXL should be used because it preserves the image quality and makes the file much smaller
>>101501726>one is too happy to kill the reds>the other is too happy to kill the blackspng wins.
>>101519648wtf are you talking, the jpeg xl in OP looks like FUCKING DOGSHIT.
why is daiz obsessed with avif?is google.paying him?makes sense for google to promote an image format on the largest image board website and pay one of the biggest shills who neo-4chan thinks invented and popularized h264 10 bit
>>101501726I will never use webp 3.0And i will also never convert a lossless png into jxl in lossy mode.
>>101519986Why do you think people can't tell it's you if you tell one of your bots to be ESL, Daiz
>>101519768We knowShills gave up and now compete to see which format can replace webp kekTel Avif seems to be winning so far
When are we going to see Daiz eat poop?He said not eating poop is ridiculous because you can't get rid of something that can be improved.So, Daiz has to show he's not a shill by making improvements to poop and eating it.
>>101520049I never saw an avif in the wild.But i do know people who use jpeg xl.AVIF is webp 3.0.It can be a webp successor... i format i will never save ever.
>>101520049Despite you and only you spamming the internet with AVIF shill posts and Google trying to kill JXL, there is, unlike for AVIF, a demand for JXL
>>101520073Billibilli and baidu uses it bwo..>>101520086That's the only post i ever made in an avif x jxl thread, and it was to point out how buckbroken both sides are, i lurk them for fun and all the shit flinging kekThanks for proving my point, PNG replacement never ever btw
>>101520152>If you shill for AVIF, then you're a retarded newfag who were groomed by Daiz and you should therefore not get mad when someone calls you Daiz.Thanks for proving his point. If you weren't a retarded newfag, you wouldn't have fallen for reddit spacing or been thinking 4chan uses Reddit's text editor, and you would've been able to read.
i don't see a usecase of AVIF
>>101519178Bottom one has fucked up colors
>>101520353Why would anyone use AVIF rather than webp?If i want to highly compress to save a few shekels, while serving my users lower quality, i can already use webp.
>>101520402Avif has a higher compression and quality than webp in most cases. Real environments would use avif with a webp/jpg/png fallback anyways so why does it matter?
It's ridiculous that Deiz thinks that jxl is a competitor of avif.That's like saying that a Ferrari is a competitor to a Hyundai.Jxl has its obvious use cases and benefits. I can convert a HDR RAW from a camera as a jxl and can archive it. Jpeg XL is useful for far more than simply serving images on the internet.AVIF can not beat jxl, it has to beat webp.AVIF wants to be the format to use when you want to save a few shekels on bandwidth and don't care about quality.1:1 exactly the same use case as webp.I honestly doubt that avif can achieve that, i don't see a reason why any jew, who converts to webp, would instead use avif.
>>101520530the little higher compression avif achieves in SOME cases, is caused by higher effort. CPU time is valuable too.AVIF is just not worth it.This is why it is deployed for four years now, and yet you barely see one.
>>101518856Imagine encoding JXL using multiple threads to get worse compression. Real men encode in single-thread mode and run multiple jobs using GNU parallel -j$(nproc) or something.
>>101520554>CPU time is valuableWhy would a website owner care about your CPU? All they care about is their bandwidth.>This is why it is deployed for four years now, and yet you barely see one.What are you talking about? It was deployed half a year ago and is already used everywhere. It's one of the fastest adopted web technologies ever.
>>101520708--num-threads=1 is one thread
>>101520535Daiz is a grifter/scammer because he doesn't believe in anything he promotes and he only does it for money.
Is there a reason why jpeg xl bombs so hard with this specific image? I feel like we're being pranked...
>>101521356How does Daiz make money from shilling an image format on a dead image board that doesn't even support it for 12 hours every day? Please explain to me
>>101521563this
>>101521323Congrats on not understanding my post. I was agreeing with you.Also, by the way, --num-threads=1 is not one thread. That's a controller process and one encoding thread. If you want single-process mode, specify 0 instead of 1.
couldn't OP have used a better pic instead of that cross-eyed plastic shegook?
>>101501735her proportions are whack and her face looks like the alienware logo
>>101521615If 4chan was dead you wouldn't be here, Daiz
>>101522375>shegookelaborate...
>>101521725He didn't misunderstand your post. You r*dd*it typing tards are everywhere and no one responds to a post with "imagine" to agree with it. Setting num_threads to 0 will force it to use ALL threads, it has to be set to 1 to use a single thread, so you're wrong about that as well.
>>101521563It always fails when you use -d 5.JXL has a sweetspot where you can't see the compression artifacts, but it's still greatly reduced in size from the original PNG.Since AVIF is really just a video codec, it's made to not look like dogshit at Youtube bitrates.I.e. JXL eXceLs at quality, while AVIF is size-centric.
>>101522467>no explanation as expected
>>101522670Not that anon, but if he were talking about libaom, he would be right.
>>101523153It still looks kind of bad at -d 2. WAYYY too many blocky artifacts. I don't understand why they haven't fixed this yet.
>>101523262-d 1 is the just notiecable difference threshold. Anything higher WILL produce visible artifacts.
>>101522670>>101523221>passive aggressive>low IQ>"umm sweaty">"le imagine not even le imagining le imagerinos!1!">"u are le fr*kin' stoopid!"go back to pReddit
>>101524541Rent free.
I love jxl
>>101524593are you ok?
>>101524656I'm doing fine, thank you.
>>101523445bummer
>>101524666who hurt you?
Btw, is there a quick way to convert jxls to pngs to post them on 4cuck? Right now I open them on jpegview, select all and copy it to the clipboard. A right click > copy as png would be good
>>101524924ffmpeg -i input.jxl output.pngNow all you gotta do is add a right-click context menu entry to execute that function.No idea how to do this in Windows, but many programs add context menu entries, so it is, somehow, possible.
ffmpeg -i input.jxl output.png
>>101522670$ cjxl -v -h | rg num_threads -A 1JPEG XL encoder v0.10.3 4a3b22d2 [AVX2,SSE4,SSE2] --num_threads=N Number of worker threads (-1 == use machine default, 0 == do not use multithreading).
$ cjxl -v -h | rg num_threads -A 1JPEG XL encoder v0.10.3 4a3b22d2 [AVX2,SSE4,SSE2] --num_threads=N Number of worker threads (-1 == use machine default, 0 == do not use multithreading).
>>101524924>>101525192djxl file.jxl file.png or magick file.jxl file.png
djxl file.jxl file.png
magick file.jxl file.png
>>101515967Probably a holdover from WEBP...one of the most annoying fucking things about it, and THE reason to stop using VP8 entirely.
>>101524806Your mom after she gave me an STD.
>>101522670No, it won't. With libjxl, all threads is -1. Please run `cjxl -v -h` before making retarded posts.
>>101525517>>101529954Pseud got told hard.
