Full article here: https://hyprland.org/news/independentHyprland/Following the merge of 6608 and 6268 Hyprland is now a completely independent compositor, having tossed off the shackles of wlroots and replacing it with a much smaller library called aquamarine. Some noted benefits of this include less memory issues and bugs compared to wlroots implementations. With the controversy driven by bad-faith actors against Hyprland's creator Vaxry having backfired, instead causing a strong build up of support for Hyprland, this is seen as a big step towards healthy cultural and technical competition within the Wayland ecosystem. Do you think this good news? Does it make you any more willing to move towards Wayland in the future? Share your thoughts in this thread.
Hyprland? More like Hyprbased.
>>101520840>aquamarineSweet name.>Do you think this good news?Hyprland is great and I wish it every success. From the little that I have used it, it has class and style.>Does it make you any more willing to move towards Wayland in the future?I'm a KDE kid running exclusively on Wayland. It is an amazing system. X11 was an honorable system for its time, but I am never going back.
>compositor>muh ricing>muh tilingno, it just proves that wayland is immature tranny slop
>>101520971stay mad red hat tranny
>>101520971>Implying people didn't rice X11 to high hellThese baitlords aren't even trying
>>101520971>Tiling is le bad because it’s just badHe fell to a nu/g/ meme
>>101521035my compositor isn't locked into one tranny mode, my floating windows have tiles, seethe tranny>>101521032X11 compositors have actual features instead of "hurr look at me rice XDDD"
oh wait, I forgot, I don't have compositor at all
>>101521048I run Wayland. The Linux desktop has never been more functional for me. Maybe choose a compositor that suits your needs.>tranny modeAbsolutely obsessed.
>>101521079no compositor has ever suited my needs
>>101521048>X11 compositors have actual featuresYou mean window managers? The only independent compositor anyone uses for X is Picom and it has the same features Hyprland does.
>>101521112biggest picom feature that I use is ability to never install it, tranny
>unintelligible xtard doesn't even have technical understanding of XWho could have guessed
>tranny who understands X so much has... tried to kill it and replace it with something shittierliterally nobody could guess
>>101521150I never "tried to kill X", schizo. I just use Wayland because it works better with my hardware. X can't handle rendering off-screen windows in OBS, it doesn't support per-application tearing, you're forced to tear the whole desktop if you want anything to tear. This is something Windows has been able to for decades.
>>101521198>niggerbabblenothing ever tears on X11, take your meds oik?
>>101521229>nothing ever tears on XOne of the biggest arguments for Wayland in the first place was that it didn't support tearing which made playing any game on a 60Hz monitor a horrible experience with massive input lag. Your opinion has been discarded into the trash, you're nothing more than a psuedo-intellectual.
>support tearingtearing is a feature?
>>101520840explicit sync support?
>>101521298Yes, explicit sync support was included in 6608, however it's still experimental at this time, but is actively being worked on. You will need to add experimental { explicit_sync = true}To your config.
experimental { explicit_sync = true}
>>101520840Does it have a taskbar?
>>101521580impressive, very nicewlroots code jannies have delayed their MR until 0.19.0 which won't be released any time soon (0.18.0 came out a week ago)too bad dynamic tiling is unusable for me, guess i'm stuck on i3 forever
>>101521650Not natively and if you wanted something similar to KDE or Windows you'd need to build your own with Quickshell (qt) or Aylur's GTK Shell. It does have a titlebars plugin. Out of curiosity, what kind of features in a taskbar are you looking for? I am working on a distribution with a hackable DE (using forked qt apps like dolphin and a new, faster shell than KDE).>>101521704>too bad dynamic tiling is unusable for me, guess i'm stuck on i3 forevertry this https://github.com/outfoxxed/hy3
Whats the state of packaging for Fedora (40) ?
>>101521732>Out of curiosity, what kind of features in a taskbar are you looking for?It's a bar where my tasks go and maybe also does things like tell me my battery level and the time
very happy to see itI like hyprland as software, and I like vaxry as an influence in the culture of waylandreally glad to see the "don't like it? fork it" idea taken and ran with
>>101521841If that's all you need you could configure waybar in a few minutes to get that. I was thinking more specific features like window previews, what kind of options in right click menus, etc.
>>101520840I switched to Hyprland not even two weeks ago, and this happensfeels good, stay winning
So it loses all of the compatibility with other compositors and forcefully makes more fragmentation. I already didn't like how it did things differently for no reason. No thank you, fuck this and everyone involved.
>>101522259What do you mean by compatibility in this context? What compatibility issues do you expect to arise?From OP link:>Don’t worry though, all your wlroots apps will still work.
>>101522259>>101522338 (Me)Also>Aquamarine is not a competitor to wlroots - wlroots is a library for building Wayland compositors, while aquamarine is a tiny library providing an abstraction on top of the very low-level backend stuff, that also allows your program to run on either a Wayland compositor (in a window) or on a DRM session (tty).
wayland is such a mess holy shit
>>101522371So is X no matter how hard you try to deny it. 48 packages for X and that doesn't even include a WM or any of the utilities you need for screenshots, bars or anything else.
>>101520840Drew Devault is gonna freak!
>>101521284It is when it also bring much lower latency.
>>101522431I have no latency with no tearing
nicetiling still sucks ass
>>101522460No latency is a physical impossibility
>>101520840Now add Xorg support to make trannies seethe even more and own everything and everyone.
>>101522549Good thing you can turn off tiling in Hyprland.
>>101522683It already has Xwayland support. Also there's a sister wm called hypr for X
>>101522714kinda pointless when you can use a floating wm
>>101521079It's a fucking compositor, what is there to "suit your needs"?This is 4chan, not your corporate meeting room where you can huff each others farts over buzzwords.
>>101522767>where you can huff each others farts over buzzwordsI mean...
>>101522756Hyprland is a floating wm.
>>101522756What's the difference
>>101520840I've never heard anything about thid distro than something about trannies and some drama
>>101523073titlebars and window snapping
>>101523089>distrowhat>>101523103>tiling sucks>but also I need tilinglol
>>101523235>what?
>>101520840So the Gayland is more and more fragmented, meaning that compatibility will be even larger pain in ass. Software devs have another special snowflake case to consider and end users can only pray that their software will work on environment of their choice.Like hell I'm not more willing to move towards Wayland and this case just strengthen my position.
>>101523299its not a distro>>101523329see >>101522338 and >>101522355
>>101523329But hyprland still supports all the wlroots protocols. Aquamarine is entirely transparent to applications.
>>101523361Well whatever it is
>>101523361"Dude trust me everything will work as intended, even if I'm changing the very basic things needed for your shit to work correctly"Am I supposed to laugh? This is a joke, right? You expect me to fucking believe that shit's gonna work on "trust me bro"?Again, Wayland is a fucking bullshit. I'm staying away from it and lose absolutely nothing.
does anyone know if these are also the changes for nvidia drivers to work well? my 1100 buck 7900 xtx can't do hdmi 2.1 on linux because everyone is retarded so i'm gonna switch back to nvidia soon
>>101523367Don't expect people who have a poor understanding of development and reasoned themselves poorly into their position to begin with to give an inch on their ideas. They're not going to change because it's not a logical investment but emotional. As someone who contributes to multiple popular qt applications I can say that I have by and large had to handle way more special snowflake edge cases with X than I ever have with Wayland, primarily because the X spec is horrible.>>101523413The idea that it won't be compatible has no basis. Software is not a "just trust me bro" idea, it either has the necessary technical implementations to maintain compatibility or it doesn't.
>>101522683>Now add Xorg supporthttps://github.com/hyprwm/Hypr
>>101523480hypros when
>>101523461Yes, yes Christina (legal name Christian). We believe in your supposed "contribution to multiple popular qt applications" and expertise on this topic.
>>101523499Go ahead and point out in the source code why compatibility with existing wlroots applications and programs is broken. Unless you have a technical basis for your belief you're nothing more than a screeching tranny making an argument purely from emotion.
>>101523486if you want a chud distro you can already use Artix. Hypr is on the AUR
>>101523521The only trannies here is you and your brethens, Gaylander.And I don't need to prove you anything. It's you who try to defend a broken system so it's you who's supposed to prove that things works as intended. You can't or don't want? Then shut the fuck up and die.
tiling sucks and no, floating modes in tiling wms are an afterthought that sucks
>>101523553>It's you who try to defend a broken system so it's you who's supposed to prove that things works as intended.lmao
>>101523553>no I don't have any technical basis for my argumentGreat, your opinion has been discarded and I will ignore any future emotional appeals from you.
>>101523461> As someone who contributes to multiple popular qt applications I can say that I have by and large had to handle way more special snowflake edge cases with X than I ever have with Wayland, primarily because the X spec is horrible.Like what? The X spec is indeed horrible but qtwayland is extremely buggy. I have x11 hacks but considerably more for wayland because qtwayland can't implement anything correctly.>>101523553>still can't explain how aquamarine increases fragmentation of protocolsdid it come to you in a dream?
>>101523649>but considerably more for wayland Like what?
>>101522402Microsoft Windows does not have this problem
>>101523717The Windows ecosystem is even worse, I sure love having 8 different APIs to access audio and then also having Microsoft break some of them in W10 and W11 completely throwing away their promise of full backwards-compatibility.
>>101523521tell me your github name or whatever, I want to look at your contributions
>>101523329>Gayland is more and more fragmentedThis. This is literally the story of everything in Linux, retarded fags always want to argue and hack on their own thing rather than work together. I love Linux, but the only Linux software that has stood the test of time is developed by big corpos or academia and adheres to standards and guidelines.
>>101523678- popups can't be repositioned- context menus use slide constraint adjustments instead of flip- popups move a pixel to the right every time they are made visible- objects created and used out of order causing protocol errors- QWaylandWindow::initWindow unconditionally commits at the end making it very hard to be compatible with some protocolson X:- qt forces the values of some atoms to specific things making it a pain to set them back
Good for you guys I guess. I'mma just keep using Openbox though. For now, at least.
>>101523785>nooo, you must work together with tranniessorry anon, but X11 just works for my usecase
>>101523785>everyone should work on and produce exactly one car, there is no use case for having different carsThis is what you sound like.
>>101520840I prefer "batteries-included" compositor, like cosmic for example, but I have to admit that both Hyprland as a software and the polish individual behind it are extremely based
>>101522726>>101523480Wont make "trannies seethe" also why install Hypr when you can install bspwm, i3 or awesome.
>>101523803>popups can't be repositionedHad this issue ages ago but it hasn't existed for a while.>popups move a pixel to the right every time they are made visibleJust checked across 5 different applications and this isn't an issue. The rest I can go over when I get home.>>101523752It's connected to my real identity so no. I am working on a project that I will release under a pseudonym and wouldn't have an issue throwing the source onto a self-hosted git when it's ready.
>>101521284on wayland it is
>>101523864Every car should be a Toyota, with a 2JZ-GE
>>101523996>real identityyour github account has a name of a woman and a photo of a man, it couldn't possibly more fake identity
>>101524036It's a very british man's name with a picture of a me, also a british man. Sorry to burst your bubble false-flagging troon but this is a chud compositor and a chud thread, go suck red hats cock somewhere else.
>>101524036nta but kill yourself, genuinely
>>101524023Toyota hasn't made a car worth driving in 20 years and the 2JZ is a pigfat boat anchor.
>>101524050ok I'll add it to my TODO list>>101524048we know that you're a man, but your github account says otherwise, it's not your real name, you don't have to be afraid to post it
>>101524144whatever you say emotional troon
>>101523414>can't do hdmi 2.1 on linux because everyone is retardedno, just the hdmi forum
>>101520840Missed the drama preceding this.Troons tried to cancel him?
>>101523996>Just checked across 5 different applications and this isn't an issue.I'm on 6.7.2 and just reproduced it. It has to be the same QWindow.>Had this issue ages ago but it hasn't existed for a whileAs of 6.7.2 this also still exists. Making the popup invisible, moving it, then making it visible does not count.
Also the bug reports are still open with no comments on either.
>>101524226yesjew segfault among others
>>101523902>"batteries-included" compositoryou mean a DE
>>101524226Yeah basically, some troon got upset when he wouldn't tow the line and got him banned from freedesktop. Then drew decuck >>101524231>It has to be the same QWindow.Which application? I can see through checking layers and clients that dolphin isn't spawning a new window or layer and its popups don't move after repeatedly opening them. I can throw together a quick ui when i get home and test this.>popupAs it turns out I was using a layer for the overlay I was moving around and clamping it to the window geometry. I don't think I've ever re-positioned a popup.
>>101524226err, before that drew decuck also tried to cancel him and got all hoity toighty over someone they banned from their discord being a nutcase and losing it on someone else
>>101524304>Which application? I can see through checking layers and clients that dolphin isn't spawning a new window or layer and its popups don't move after repeatedly opening them. I can throw together a quick ui when i get home and test this.My own. you can repro by just toggling visible repeatedly.>As it turns out I was using a layer for the overlay I was moving around and clamping it to the window geometry. I don't think I've ever re-positioned a popup.I have and this is a thing.
>>101524304>As it turns out I was using a layeralso are you making a panel of some kind?
>>101524427Its an overlay over a canvas that displays contextual information based on mode, cursor target, etc. I'm developing a DAW.
>>101524563Ah, by layer I thought you meant https://wayland.app/protocols/wlr-layer-shell-unstable-v1
>>101524620Oh, no, I am planning to use quickshell at some point in the future to make a shell though, using ags right now.
>>101521048>X11 compositors have actual features instead of "hurr look at me rice XDDD"Picrel is X11.
>>101520840surely the 5 people who use it are thrilled. Or mortified. Or something. I didn't read your blog post because this shit matters to nobody.
>>101526309Whatever you say troon
Are there any distros running a preconfigured Hyprland in their live ISOs? I'd like to try it.
>>101528230I think CachyOS does: https://github.com/CachyOS/cachyos-hyprland-settings
>>101528230I think it's easier to set up a snapshot, try hyprland, and revert back if you don't like it or stay if you like it? Seems overkill to distrohop for it.
Rumors floating around in their discord that FUTO is going to fund them.
>>101528544huh? what would FUTO get out of it?
>>101528761futa fags constantly give away free money wdym?
>>101528295Sadly their live ISO uses KDE.
>>101520840My daily driver. Updated today. Just werks.>>101528761They just like it. They don't get anything out of funding many of the projects they fund besides believing that having them under active development is a net benefit for free software.>>101528295The configuration is half assed. The CachyOS docs are not helpful. Swayidle is not configured and so is Swaylock. The waybar is not configured properly either. Portal is broke and required manual install. Polkit not configured. I ended up ripping nearly the whole config out just to have something useable. I don't see the point of bundleing the WM if you're basically letting the user do all the work. Also use Hyprlock and Hypridle. Works much better.
I am awaiting Drew's blogpost about he is now transgender. This will break him.
>>101520840Hey that menas hyprland is now easier to package and ship doesn't it?
Damn, I would kill myself I had this insufferable piece of work as a co-worker.
>>101529550Literal definition of infighting and petty drama. Not to mention vaxry can't work with the community even if he wanted to since he's banned from FD. And even if he tried to make amends (and he did) you wouldn't allow him in.Trying to spin the necessity of aquamarine as an alternative born of ideology instead of something forced on HL by a minority of unhinged devs is just insane.
>>101529550Also>Blahaj
>>101529550He should do better and stop parodying women to satisfy his weird fetish.
>>101529393Sure does, of course you still need to have someone willing to maintain those packages.
>>101520840>Do you think this good news?No. There already are too many wayland implementations, having one more is not good news.
>>101530498All we need is one good implementation and that's hyprland. The rest no longer matter.
>hyprland>goodlol lmoa
ahh when are we getting xaquamarine so I can play my games without xwayland?
>>101530738>lol lmoa>laugh out loud lick my own ass
>>101530986human is the only animal on planet earth who doesn't lick his own ass to clean it but goes out of his way to eat shit from someone's elses ass despite this having no evolutionary advantage.
you know desktop linux is doomed to be eternally dogshit when it's 2024 and the troonyloonatics maintaining it still cannot decide on how to put a pixel on a screen
>>101530628Yeah nah. Regardless of whether it's good or not, that's one more implementation clients will have to deal with in their thousand of compositor-specific workarounds. NOT good news.
>>101528544Why Hyprland and not COSMIC?
>>101520840>logo shaped like a noosewhat the fuck did they mean by this?
>>101529646>vaxry can't work with the community even if he wanted to since he's banned from FD.That's the point, he's supposed to apologize and take back everything he's ever said and transition to prove how sincere he is.
>>101533613you ok anon?
>>101529550if the wlroots code jannies are so smart, why haven't they implemented explicit sync yet?
>more than 1150 comments on a single PRholy fucking autism
>>101520840Is dinit Artix with hyprland ready for most videogames out of the box?No?Then I stay a indirect redhat
>>101521244i don't think that windows tears the games and most people are happy with it. no one wants their image to tear constantly when moving around but linux by default offers this experience regardless of hardware
>>101535127Windows doesn't tear by default but will allow it to happen if you set the right settings on your games. Wayland didn't support this at all until very recently and only on certain compositors.
>>101535194sounds like an improvement to me then and not something to mald about. on x you either have things tear all the time or you don't. its horrible to scroll with tearing enabled and its annoying to move in games when theres constantly a tearline going through the screen. if things don't stay in sync with tearing off its probably because wine lacks features like completion wait locks
Too bad that its a tiling wm but the library sounds great. I hope xfce devs will make use of these so i don't have to use kde to get a similar experience
>>101535257LMAOJEWVIDIA NORMALFAGS BTFO
>>101535306its present on amd systems too. additionally dpms is broken and only nvidia seems to support the thing to ignore hdmi hotplug events
>>101535257It's literally one setting to turn tearing on/off in xorg.
>>101535351yes but you were implying that on windows it has case by case control which x11 doesn't. if they managed to implement this in wayland thats a new feature and improvement then
>>101522767But 4chan is full of buzzwords too
>>101535388You can just use a compositor that disables itself on fullscreen on xorg if you really want. Or alternatively have a script that turns off the setting when you fullscreen your game. Plenty of options here.
not using wltroons is always based
How is fucking fixing Wayland fully and being done with it not a five alarm fire priority #1 issue for the entire Linux developer ecosystem. I have never seen something (at least in recent memory) as awkwardly handled as this. It doesn’t even feel CLOSE to being mature.
>>101535194fucking retard, kill yourself
>aquamarine
>>101529347>>101529368Drew put out a passive aggressive anti-FUTA post without mentioning them by name, and then a couple days later FUTA is tossing money to hyprland. based dick enjoyers.
Hyprland is just tiling gnome. If you suggest any feature vaxry just goes "WHAT'S THE USE CASE FOR THAT?!?!?" or "i3 doesn't do that so it's bad".
>>101535485>You can just use a compositor that disables itself on fullscreen on xorg if you really wantOkay but then you're tearing the whole xinerama. There's no way around it regardless of what compositor you use. Both Windows and Mac can handle per-screen tearing, now Linux can too with Wayland.>>101532569There has functionally been zero difference for me. It's almost like developers just let GUI toolkits do the work. They're never going to target some off-brand compositor no one uses. They'll only target the most popular environments too. This was the same thing on X. If a program didn't operate correctly because a twm wasn't capable of handling the EWMH to spec (which many did differently and each with their own caveats), developers didn't change their software so they would work with them. It was up to the developer of the compositor to make sure it worked. That's still mostly the same now.
>>101534342no. I'm seeing trannies everywhere, they live rent freee in my head. tasukete niggerman
>>101536547>If you suggest any feature vaxry just goes "WHAT'S THE USE CASE FOR THAT?!?!?" or "i3 doesn't do that so it's bad".What are you smoking? Hyprland was the first compositor to support tearing. It was one of the first compositors to make steps towards better nvidia support through extra and temporary flags. In the first place Hyprland is a dynamic twm and i3 isn't.
>>101535595>It doesn’t even feel CLOSE to being mature.Everything I use works, it works better than it did in X. Every single program I use is wayland native now.
>>101529368The meltdown is going to be so good
>>101529550>tranny seething after getting called out by vaxryhttps://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2024-linuxInfighting
>>101537884absolutely unhinged
What exactly did he say that's considered transphobic?
>>101538027Changed someone's pronouns on his Discord server from they/them to who/cares. That's it.
>>101529550Don't worry, the nature has got you covered, these creatures understand deep down that there's something wrong with them, thus such high suicide rate
>>101538125not even him, a mod but he allowed it. the tranny was cause a shitstir as well
>>101536547>>101536597>what's the usecase for that?>the usecase is [thing people actually do]>*implements feature*Sounds based to me.
this is generic slopware for a specific audience of which i am not a part
>>101538505The troon was being an insufferable cunt (as troons do) and then drew got up in arms about how vaxry should have let it be an insufferable cunt and destroy the server. he put absolutely zero responsibility on it for its actions
>>101529550>>101537884"Joshie" gets paid by valve to work on dxvk, gamescope and mesa btw. It would be terrible if someone sent those screenshots to his employers.
>what if someone writes a program specifically designed to kill all the jewsCome on nobody would do such a thing, right? I am sure chudsoftware doesn't exist, surely.
>>101529550tranny civil warthis is why I'm staying in windows despite trying every other distro
>>101520840this is literally the bitchx of wayland compositors
>wayland compositor>full of tranny dramaCan't find an X11 WM with that problem.
>>101521284Controlled tearing it's a feature in some apps. In X11 is unintended and it is a defect.
>>101539929Nah, it's deliberate design decision to maximize faster update rates over correct frames.
>>101539929Controlled tearing isn't a thing. Tearing is just a consequence of disabling vsync.
>>101540142they should time the tears at the bottom of the screen so you can't see them
>>101520840>Do you think this good news?wlroot being shat on is always good news.this shitware was created by drew segfault and deserve to disappear even if he is not associated with the project anymore.
>>101523329>le fragmentation le bad but le linux about le choicewww
>>101529550>>101537884Dang had no idea he was like this. He seemed like a normal guy from my interactions with him.
>>101540142Controlled in the sense that you allow to exists in determinate applications because you choose to allow it.
>>101540172Aww, Chud got triggered by a decent human being :<>>101538125Absolute infantile behavior.
>>101540193the only difference is that "wayland" fragmentation, is like if every single compositor were a different OS. People were already hesitant to port for linux because of lib versioning (in the end coming with the solution of shipping everything, just like static would do from the very beginning). Now linux got sad people were working around the problem of portability and made the major attack, "wayland" (that says nothing considering every compositor is as different as one OS is to another, the similarity is the rot foundation).
>>101540268I'm only reading babbling from a no coder.
>>101540153Unless you're syncing the frame, you can't choose where the tearing happens, it just happens when the frame updates partway through a refresh.>>101540225In that case X11 has controlled tearing as well because it supports vsync.
>>101540282I do write code, but that's irrelevant for facts are facts.
>>101540283Then I retract my statement.
>>101540306>implying facts>not special pleadingsw
>>101540339Compare wlroots, kde, mutter and enlightenment and try to deny they are as different as Linux is to FreeBSD. It's obvious that that harms portability, it has happened even with official protocols (that made standard something already existent on major implementations, but different from their solutions).
>>101540490Good thing Linux is about choice.
>>101540243who's the decent human being?the bitter subhuman that flee the US for the netherland and groomed a degenerate from his local hacker club he managed to join by inventing himself a false childhood with lots of rapes and shit while maintaining a sekrit klub about how to beat toxic masculinity (ie white males like him but with testosterone)?yep, just being normal is already being more decent than this degenerate
>>101540538>>>/pol/
>>101540531I think one digit of IQ might decrease your ability to rationalize about consequences. Harming portability means you will decrease the choices, people will either simply stop porting for linux or port only to major implementations (like KDE and Mutter). Each scenario will decrease users ability to choose.
>>101540613So it means fragmentation will be a problem it will sort out itself. Great. Open Source is awesome.
>>101540763Let's see what will happen, only time will tell. As people can simply stop porting to Linux (many devs are refusing to port for "wayland" because their users don't understand "wayland" does not exist; you need to port for an implementation that has sufficient extensions [what means it will fail or behave weirdly in others]). It could result in everything running through wine. It could result in Wayland death and finally a non-demented display server would take its place (the good ending). It could result in Linux death, what is not that bad if something take its place (the amigaos ending).
>>101540840>It could result in Wayland death and finally a non-demented display server would take its place (the good ending).Keep dreaming, Bjorn.
>>101540871I was rooting for MIR (sadly it died), we could port surfaceflinger, maybe copy macos. Either way it's hard to do worse, so it's unlikely that its death would be a regress for whatever take its place.
>>101540925Seriously speaking: I never understood why the ecosystem did not try to use SurfaceFlinger first, considering it was more mature that the Wayland protocol was a the time.
>>101540268>is like if every single compositor were a different OSNot the way it works at all.>Now linux got sad people were working around the problem of portabilityDo you have any idea how much of an absolute clusterfuck the toolkit wars of the 00's were? You wanna talk about portability? We had one display server and half of the applications DIDN'T WORK because every toolkit had a different way of doing things. It took nearly a decade before things got anywhere close to stable and that was with just ONE display server. If you used any kind of non-standard WM, chances are your GUI apps would just shit the bed, popups wouldn't be handled properly, applications would outright crash, it was a total mess. Anyone who thinks "oh god muh wayland fragmentation will be sooo hard for developers" has no idea just how much better things are right now even with the fragmentation compared to just how abysmal everything used to be. We've been through so much worse, and we'll get over this just like anything else.
>>101540925gnome has to die first, this dogshit project is what is holding back linux desktop, as soon as it's done, adults will be able to discuss the future of the wayland abomination that is outdated since day one.we have 30 years of X11 and 16 of wayland, we know the pros and cons of both solutions, it's about fucking time that we design something WITHOUT the wayland team as obviously they don't know wtf they're doing and don't really care about the real world.
>>101541003>gnome has to die first, this dogshit project is what is holding back linux desktop,It does not need to die. It only needs powerful actors that can steal power and influence from them in the protocol development. That's pretty much what has been happening in the last 4 years.
>>101541038or just some people to say fuck it, fork the protocol or ignore upstream and make something betterapplication developers and their users are what matter, they'll use what works for them and people will migrate to it, it's a tale as old as time and that's the end of the story every time
>>101540949For me looks like boycott. They took a kiosk protocol trooned it to desktop (actually they left for the community to do the dirt work, so we got wlroots). It's the contrary of previous enforcements (like systemd and pulseaudio that were shit but at least unified things for the better).>>101540979> not the way it works at allLiterally the way it works, each do their own extensions and break compatibility in some cases, there are some common agreements (mostly thanks to wlroots), but not enough (gnome for instance loves fucking with this common ground).> we had problems with portability, therefore we should have it againImagine being this demented. Also now we are breaking portability at a more fundamental level (it's worse that it was before).>>101541003The problem is that it's fundamentally wrong. In that sense gnome is useful, if it results in wayland death and it alone. Otherwise it's the one holding implementations of having a common ground.>>101541076> fork the protocolthere's literally almost nothing to fork. gnome is just not agreeing on extensions (what makes them not reliable considering they are one of the major implementations).
>>101541143>Literally the way it worksNo> each do their own extensionsOh so it's not like a different OS and it's only around extensions. Thanks for blowing your own grossly exaggerated argument out of the water.>(it's worse that it was before)Nowhere close to worse. Wayland fragmentation could be 2 or 3 factors greater and it would still be more functional than what we had in the 00's without question.>gnome is just not agreeing on extensionsGood, they'll cripple themselves even further just like they have been doing since they started development on GTK3.
>>101541143Did SurfaceFlinger had some kind of weird license?
>>101541231> It's only around extensionsIt's not. Although in some cases extensions also create real problems (it has one that was added to the protocols later, breaking portability with the major implementations, that for some reason each did their own thing too).> They'll cripple themselvesAnd everyone else, they have weight on the official protocols and are a major implementation, so users will trouble devs that port for "wayland" and it fail to work with gnome (good luck explaining to users that "wayland" != "wayland")>>101541259I think it's apache, not too bad. MIR had drama with license too, but I'm almost sure pressure could make they consider to change it (OSS and BSD had drama with license and surpassed that).
>>101541311>it will fail to work with gnomeNothing of value was lost. You forget that those same users are going to go and bitch at the gnome devs that x or y doesn't work, especially if an existing issue exists stating that it's gnome's fault.
>>101541311Eventually, if it becomes serious enough, people will raise their voices loud enough and more and more users will move away from gnome. We don't live in an era where people have no ability to find some youtube video explaining the situation. The drama will hit social media, the gnome devs will be found out for their faults, yet again, and more people will move to alternative environments. Or they will cave to the pressure. The biggest possible win is ultimately a fork of the protocol without their influence.
>>101540268>is like if every single compositor were a different OSSo you're saying that if I picked up a toolkit which isn't cross-platform (ie. not qt or gtk), I would have to go through the exact same effort to get it working on wayland compositors as I would porting it to another operating system? Complete bullshit. I guarantee you that you can pick up any toolkit like this today, develop a GUI with it, and it would run on the majority of compositors without any additional effort. At most you would have minor bugs between each. If the world really worked like you said it did, no qt application would work on gnome because, no gtk application would work on kde, hyprland would be dead in the water because no application would work at all.
Finally, in practicality, in the real-world, all of these problems you're talking about aren't major issues. The biggest issue for users is nvidia support, it's definitely not being able to use krita, gimp, neovim, their favorite file manager, etc. All of that just works with a few minor issues. When you have a real-world examples, that the entire ecosystem is broken from fragmentation and nothing works across different compositors, then you'll have an argument. Right now, it doesn't work that way, and it will never work that way.
>>101521786just compile you fucking mong holy fuck
>>101541945>The biggest issue for users is nvidia support,This. This has been the largest hurdle Wayland has to sort and it isn't Wayland's blame but Nvidia being snowflakes with their EGLstreams bullshit.
>>101541959No.>>>/r/pm
>>101541741>>101541787Time will tell, for now the only place I see people bashing on gnome for holding the protocols is here.>>101541868Most of software that I've tried (with compatibility inherited), works pretty badly (if at all). Some devs said their software can't be ported to "wayland" in a reliable manner (for instance pcsx2, if I remember well, which is now written in QT). It's no wonder, after all how to ensure that the compositor has the needed extensions? One could target the core protocols but then it would cut 99% of the toolkit capabilities. Or maybe target mutter, it's close to the core procotols.
>>101541231>Good, they'll cripple themselves even further just like they have been doing since they started development on GTK3.Doesn't just work that way. It cripples everyone when they go into wayland protocol MR's or discussions and disagree with all the features people want and delay development and agreements for 6+ months wasting everyones time or prevent features from being added at all. Gnome has a large pull in deciding what gets added to wayland officially at all. Whether the fact they implement the standard at all or break them is irrelevant to the fact Gnome can dictate the features everyone else is officially allowed to have.
>>101541259I answered myself:>it does not use standard c library but android's own libc implementation>it's tightly coupled with android. Meanwhile, Wayland compositors already are working on BSDs>at the time it lacked support for multiple displays and support for multiple windowsBasically it was even more bare bones than Wayland for the desktop use case at the time of this answer.>reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/8f9o5y/wayland_and_xorg_problem_why_not_following_the/dy2ly92/GNOME already had a more-or-less working Wayland session in 2017.
>>101542958> own libcisn't it newlibc? anyway if people ported plan9 libc to linux it would be trivial to port android code.> more bare boneswayland barely supports one screen/window by default. you are comparing protocol to implementations.
>>101543054The end result is the same. Wayland already had the protocols and an implementation for the desktop use case so developers opted for Wayland protocol.
>>101543093> the end result is the sameSo is returning to xfree86 and adding the missing extensions, so it reaches xorg compatibility. However that's clearly a shit plan. Wayland is ill "designed", but would work for kiosk (what it is), when trooned to desktop its braindamaged design turns every minimum capability into an workaround (for communication is simply not considered by the core protocols). Surfaceflinger has some similarities to the core idea of drawing of wayland, but it's better done.> developers optedIt stayed as a corpse for most of its life, until wlroots did the dirt work
>>101521284yea, never tearing is a core principal of wayland, so you have to go well out of your way to permit tearing
>>101523717you've just never looked under the hood
>>101523561yea, i've used tiling wm's before, and personally they only make sense in limited scenarios, like small screens or if you have very specific use-cases in mindi want something more like openbox
>>101520840>tiling compositoryou don't need more
>>101529550>champions inclusivity>btw i don't like you personally and people like you shouldn't feel welcomeevery time
>>101521732>https://github.com/outfoxxed/hy3Huh. didn't know this was a thing. This might make me switch from sway.
>>101543285That's modern moral values for you, better get used to itIn absence of universal values everything I like is morally good and everything I don't is morally bad
>>101543248labwc seems to be doing fine but we're still missing good replacements for shit like tint2. tiling only makes sense if all you do is use vim.
Still based on wayland?Don't care.Where there x11 rewrite is coming?
>>101542706>some devs said their software can't be portedThe examples are few and far between, the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Ardour which has been an unstable crashfest for the entirety of the time I've used it regardless of what environment it's run in. For those applications that struggle to make the jump Xwayland will always exist.
>>101543479Be the change you want to be.
>>101543479you mean hypr?
>>101543571hypr as far as I read does not have a compositor (uses picom instead)
>>101543623neither do most X window managers
>>101543650Yes. But I understand the point of using hyprland is the eye candy without having to endure wayfire bugs.
>>101543489> xwaylandgreat now we have a frankstein of two shits in one. so much for "security" when you tripled the attack surface with dbus passing your sensitive data around, nice
>>101542848>Doesn't just work that way.It does, there will inevitably be a catalyst like the introduction of libadwaita that will just cause everyone to tell them to go fuck themselves and support an alternate solution without them at the helm. It's not the first time it has happened, it won't be the last. If there is one thing I have faith in when it comes to this community, it's their ability to tell others to suck a million bag of dicks and do their own thing. You might consider this fragmentation a bad thing, I consider it the crowning jewel of freetard philosophy.
>>101540949we had rio too
>>101544332rio suffers the same issue of SurfaceFlinger IMO: tighly coupled to plan9, but I think some proc trickery would work.
>>101521786It's available on the official fedora repo by the same maintainer of its Coprhttps://packages.fedoraproject.org/pkgs/hyprland/hyprland/If you prefer install the COPR and get the packageshttps://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/solopasha/hyprland/I've been using it for a year (with the copr) and works great, the official package works too but lacks some packages that you might need, like hyprshot which you can get with the copr.
>>101520895hyperbsd is something else
Did these faggots finally added triple buffering?
>>101529550Jesus, I've interacted with him countless times and I've never seen this side of him til this incident. I guess le heckin transphobia was the sleeper agent trigger for him. At least now I know never to show my power level around this clown.
>>101541143>>101543161>muh kiosk protocolIf targeting desktop systems xdg-shell will always be supported, along with a few other non essential ones. I don't see the problem with the core protocol being extensible.
>>101546150It's the display server equivalent of "cores glued together" Intel tried to pull.
>>101546243The same protocol objects can work together and extend each other. There would be minimal differences if xdg shell was part of core. I really don't see what you're trying to get at.
>>101546356I'm not >>101543161What I am saying is the "kiosk protocol" reduction is FUD. Like the shit Intel tried to pin to AMD Ryzen in the early days of the product.
>>101546370ah, misunderstood
>>101546150>I don't see the problem with the core protocol being extensible.which is not mutually exclusive with>the core protocol being uselessly minimal
>>101546493No problem, I wrote my example like shit.
>>101546510I don't see the problem with that either. Lets say you do want a kiosk or something with its own protocol and entirely different concerns, you can make that same as the desktop one, for example ivi-shell
>>101537884these people are getting mkultra'd, aren't they?
>>101526218Compositing in X11 is an ugly hack. It's not efficient or performant. I used Compiz back in the day. It was not a seamless or glitch-free experience at all.X-tards don't care about technology, logic or facts. They base their conclusions on emotions alone, just like religious people. In fact, I'm assuming most of them are christfags. They're even below the level of the 'troons' they complain about. At least the troons understand how technology works.
>>101541945Nvidia + Wayland is not a problem anymore since everything switched over to explicit sync. As long as your packages are up to date and you're using the 555 Nvidia driver you're all set.
>>101546150> extensibleIt's not extensible, it's a kiosk protocol as in only meant for kiosk. The protocol does not only forgets to define communication, it cripples communication so we do workarounds. In here "extensible" means: "we did literally nothing but cripple you, the rest is on you, but we will take the credit (name)">>101546900> protocol says: int == 32 bytes (and only this)> "Now that's a nice display server protocol">>101548576communication that is a vital part for any display server is a workaround on wayland.> emotions aloneso do wayshillers that cannot explain why xorg sucks and are unable to see that wayland is a rot foundation.
>>101548617No, Nvidia with Wayland still a problem and the wrost part is: Nvidia drivers being a shit after the 535.xx. 555.xx drivers us a fucking garbage and you need to disable gsp, enable modeset etc.Source? Me, an RTX A2000 user.
>>101548944trust ze plan2 more weeks until nvidia goes opensourceit literally just works (source: trust me)year of the linux desktop 2025 (your fault for buying an nvidia gpu)linux cult is not real (the more people believe my bullshit the more truer it is)
>>101522259dilate
>>101522408> "Drew Devault is gonna freak"> go to take look> Drew Devault actually seething about thislmao
>>101533613it's for the wlrootrannies
>>101520840this guy just BTFO the sway troon and the freedesktop wokes
>>101549225Rewrites and alternatives are only okay if certified good boys do it
>>101549225hmmh but cocks are politics
>>101535351what?doesnt tearing depend on the compositorthats why for gaming on xorg you have to turn off the compositor on DEs that support it
>>101549498why? i have no problems with it on in xfce but with it off everythings a bit broken like some windows have black gaps in corners
>>101549225> label a guy persona non grata and slander him on social media> ban him from interacting with your projects> he rewrites it for his own purpose as a reaction> "nooo why are you doing that fuck you"
>>101523413>>101523499Stop shitposting with my wife you gay retard
>>101537884Guy seems level headed. Can’t say the same for trannies. They always seem to sperg out when something doesn’t perfectly align with them. Anyways this won’t cause fragmentation. Linux desktop is a meme anyways and I have lived this meme for a long time.
When people bitch endlessly about "fragmentation", its almost always with the implication that linux development should be centered around the decisions of Red Hat/IBM/GNOME/systemd/etc.No, there should be 3 distros: Fedora, Red Hat and CentOS. Developers elsewhere are wasting time and "fragmenting".No, there should be one DE, GNOME. Developers elsewhere are wasting resources and fragmenting.No, there should be one init, systemd. Developers elsewhere are hurting Linux.You especially, especially, especially should NOT run a fragmented distro like gentoo running openRC with a NAZI wm like Hyprland.
>>101549974This bascially
>>101549974> initsdoesn't hurt portability> dedoesn't hurt portability (until wayshit)> distrodoesn't hurt portability (they are basically the same with a different pm and default packages)> fragmentationit assumes people would put their energy to the same point, which is clearly untrue. the problem is simply annihilating portability, which wayshit does and increases each time a new compositor appears (as wayshit failed to include in the protocols even the absolute bare minimum everyone is doing their own thing; and the common ground [wlroots] is not accepted by mutter)
>>101549225literally rent free kek
>>101549604apparently on some DEs fullscreen redirect is buggythats why people on the internet suggest to turn off the compositor to gameyeah some things have those black bars because they expect the compositor for whatever effects they have
>>101549225Reading between the lines, Drew is straight up admitting that there IS a group that tries to gatekeep Linux development, and that if you don't go along with corporate protrannyism, you'll be part of the FOSS darkweb.>>101549974
>>101549225> "FOSS intellectual dark web"what the fuck
>>101549225LMAO. Was he disingenuous when he said "good luck rewriting wlroots"? That's not very nice of him.
>>101549225Drew Devault must have commited some kind of racist hate crime.There is no way this faggot just started projecting and overcompensating this hard out of nowhere. He constantly gets banned himself for being an asshole.
>>101520840Linux noob here, can someone explain why this is significant? I thought Hyprland was just a DE
>>101520840Good news
>>101550713How much time was there between Drew posting this and the announcement?
>>101550713the amount of seethe on display is incredible
>>101549225>>101550713What a fucking soiboi kek
>>101550444Because Wayland is just a protocol and not a display server like xorg, making a DE for it is an extremely complex task. A lot of the big name DEs like GNOME and KDE are ground-up implementations, but most of the smaller ones are built on top of wlroots, which implements all of the low-level stuff that people making DEs don't usually want to or aren't able to deal with. The developer of wlroots is a violent pro-tranny activist who banned the developer of hyprland from using any of his software (which is obviously unenforceable but vaxry is a man of principle) for having such horrible transphobic views as "someone's gender shouldn't matter to their ability to contribute to the project, all that matters is the quality of their code."
>>101550713>I'm totally living rent free in the minds of people who rarely mention me but I mention frequently>and also I'm putting them in a fictional group that exist only in my mind to categorize the people I constantly think ofI'm giving him a self-awareness score of zero
>>101548576>christfagsthe jews being behind wayland/gnome/systemd/redhat confirmed
>>101520840Shit website broI don't know what hyprland is, and your website doesn't tell me
I smirk every time I see the noose
>>101551097dumb retard
>>101551122OH FUCK LMAO
>>101551126That image isn't on the website
>>101551149that's the wiki, retardthe website is https://hyprland.org/dumb retard
>>101536579>This was the same thing on X.This was not the same thing on X. There only ever was one X server implementation in actual use one linux/windows. The only comparison you can have is window managers and yes, there was plenty of window-manager specific breakage on X, from popup windows not being placed right to client-side decorations not showing up and let's not forget context menus being placed on the wrong workspace or simply not showing up.
>>101549225>/g/ - Drama
>>101550037>inits>doesn't hurt portabilityYou never maintained a daemonization script.
>>101552822I literally maintain scripts for a init system. It's retarded to claim it harms portability, it's like saying a shell that had a different way of evoking posix utilities would alter the binaries ability to run (aka nonsense)
>>101552890Lies make baby Jesus cry.
>>101553009Then please explain how the interface to evoke daemons affects the binaries themselves.
