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remember Wayland is the issue why Linux desktop isn't going anywhere. All distros should be using X11.

>>101549741
Dude it's SHIT. Sorry. I open Wayland and instantly lose my ability to use gestures and all sorts.

Wayland is kiosk trooned to desktop. Decreases security (increasing attack surface), decreases capabilities, annihilates portability.

I heard a rumor that on X11, if you plug in multiple monitors, the desktop will be capped at the lowest refresh rate of all of them. After messing around with my monitors and TV it seems to be true. WTF? No politics, just a possible use case where wayland is better.

>>101550105
It could be true I think if you treat everything as one big screen. However it's possible to have multiple screens. Wayland in this sense is not better because it barely provide enough to support one screen, would be like rewriting xorg with good support for this capability and claiming it's its merit.

>>101549741
hey WayLand Nowayland

Wayland is beta software.

>Wayland vs. X11 discourse is back on /g/

Here we go again

>no W-forwarding

I'll pass.

wayland is a small indie company give it another 25 years and it's on the same level as x11 but at this point, we have a new window system and Wayland has the issues that x11 currently has.

Mutter is going nowhere fast.
Sway sucks.
More things are using kwin since it has the best wayland support.

kwin/wayland will end up replacing x11...
all other wayland servers will die like the other x servers did when xfree86/xorg won.

>>101549741
no, wayland is the issue
we don't need this pajeetware

>>101550105
there was some ancient way to start a desktop with multiple separate screens, but nowadays xinerama is the default which merges every screen into one big screen

>>101549741
I've been using Wayland for about a year now. Everything has been breddy great, it's definitely getting ready for prime time. And this is with a newer Nvidia card. I hear the older ones can be bad or something.

>>101550678
I think it works with Xwayland, but there's waypipe too I think
>>101550651
Would you rather have another thread about trannies?

>>101551321
>I think it works with Xwayland, but there's waypipe too I think

Not with native wayland apps so it's actually becoming LESS supported over time. And XWayland is basically a wrapper for X11 so it's not an improvement on the standard, rather an additional complexity layer

>>101549741
enjoy tearing and lagging even on a a top tier graphic card with wayland

>>101551368
From what I've seen, X tunneling in general has been poorly supported by programs. Slow and some shit just won't work. But I guess with Xwayland and Waypipe, if someone needs it, it's there

>>101549781
>Decreases security (increasing attack surface), decreases capabilities, annihilates portability
>>101551400
>enjoy tearing and lagging even on a a top tier graphic card
but enough about x11

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>>101549741
remember,
if you have the XY chromosome and you were born with a penis,
you will ALWAYS BE A MAN

I just want VRR. Whoever provides this will be used. Hmm, I also want keyboard shortcuts. Why does Wayland fuck up keyboard shortcuts?

>>101551612
It literally is the case for wayland:
> decreases security
it literally has no security model (even xorg has one), its take for it is isolation; however communication is a fundamental part of a display server (what it simply fails to provide a stable and safe way for it. So we do workarounds with portals+dbus+pipewire (increases the passes on your data through tools that aren't meant for safe data handling).
> decreases capabilities
The core protocols are as capable as curses (if not less). And the way it's "designed" dooms it to always be falling behind (no wonder it took decades for simple things like clipboard, screenshot; some still doesn't work reliably such as remembering a window info).
> annihilates portability
as the protocols doesn't define even the absolute bare minimum for desktop everyone is doing their own thing and one of the major implementations refuses to build a common ground. Even then some incompatibilities are ensured (for instance the core protocol added an extension later on that breaks compatibility with the existing implementations).
> features
> can suffer DoS from moving the mouse too fast
> It's async oop in C with implicit sync (all implementations have exploits because of this)
> Policy over mechanism
Really, no other OS has such a shit attempt of display server. Porting surfaceflinger would provide similar ideas (for drawing) without this crippled demented "foundation" wayland provides.

>>101552519
>it literally has no security model (even xorg has one), its take for it is isolation
I thought that was what made it securer than X

>>101552843
Wayland is secure in the sense that bricking up your doors and windows is secure.

>>101552843
As said, it's kiosk trooned to desktop. The isolation works for kiosk, but not for desktop, therefore we do workarounds with portals+dbus+pipewire, the problem being it increases A LOT the attack surface, increases data passes, and we are using tools that weren't built with sensitive data in mind.
> what made it securer
Also even in the ideal scenario (a dead "desktop"), it's trivial to bypass its "isolation" (because it also has no protocol to ensure its isolation, its take is simply not doing X, but whatever is done can be tracked).

Dude, Linux even have a fucking stable ABI for NOTHING! The problem is not xorg, wayland whatever, the problem is EVERYTHING on Linux.

>>101553302
good thing whyland will kill it then, finally haiku will have its chance

>>101550105
I plugged in 3 monitors on KDE, 2 60Hz monitors and one 144Hz monitor and each had their correct refresh rate with compositing enabled. I guess it might not be default behavior?

>>101551637
I see two proud women of color in that picture.

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>>101549741
>All distros should be using Wayland at this point.
Yeah and install plasma 6, let's break everyone's Shittttt

>>101549741
x11 is fine. Wayland is another pillar in the complete destruction of the linux desktop. Gnome3 was not enough, it needed to be ruined even more.

>>101552940
I would've tought it'd be similar to having locks on doors inside your home
>>101552953
I just wish we could have stuff with permissions. Some stuff does give a permission pop up, which imo is a good way of doing shit. I don't mind if something captures everything happens on my screen if I give it that permission.

>>101549781
>this fudster again

>>101549741
delusional and wrong

>>101550105
lies and fud

>remember x11 is the issue why Linux desktop isn't going anywhere
No. There's no Linux desktop because nobody beyond a teeny minority is interested in a Linux desktop.
It never had any chance. The only relevant actors in the desktop market got their user bases in the 80's with home computers.
The only people interested in UNIX in the desktop market during that era were a bunch of autistic men who went to academia to study a weird applied math discipline called 'Computer Science'. And UNIX kinda arrived late to the party. UNIX never went to be relevant in that market, even with AT&T.
Without this, there was no killer app nor captive user base to use UNIX. Commodore, Apple and IBM compatibles were enough for them.
In the 90s Linux appeared, but like before, there was no reason to use it beyond some arguments about how Microsoft was evil (Arguments that I consider good, but moral arguments aren't enough reason if you needed to work with other people who are using Microsoft products).
Linux development went towards servers. Thirty years latter we are here: Catching up with the other operating systems in the UI/UX part.
Fight as you want about how X11 is the worst/best thing ever and Wayland is a disaster filled with troons/is the second coming of Christ. It's irrelevant and will change shit. Unix/Linux in the desktop fate was sealed in the 80s.

>>101553397
Would you mind sharing GPU and distro?

Well, I use xorg instead of wayland because I want to have xscreensaver. Am I stupid or crazy?

>>101553397
I tried KDE 6 with X11 minutes ago and I had the opposite issue. Capped at lower refresh rate and also I can't have different DPI for my monitors.
The latter is a deal breaker for me so I went back to Wayland again.

>>101554468
> I would've tought it'd be similar to having locks on doors inside your home
Locks can be opened, with wayland there are no locks and no doors, some things are just straight up impossible, the functionality is not implemented at all.

>>101549741
Remember, GNONE is literally the sole reason why wayland hasn't gone anywhere in the last 15 years since it released.
Thank god there's been new compositors lately that make so they don't depend on gnome to get anything approved.

>>101554824
Use whatever works best for you
>>101554938
Wouldn't Pipewires and portals be like keys to those doors. Some doors and windows are definitely missing though

>>101554985
Kwin boys are eating good these days

>>101554992
> Wouldn't Pipewires and portals be like keys to those doors
No, these are third parties coming along realizing the building has no entrances and cutting random holes in the walls.

>>101554985
Says a lot when KDE went to be unusable with Wayland to usable, including experimental features like color management, HDR, fractional scaling and VRR, in just 4 years.
I'm glad System76 is behind COSMIC, because a huge project like COSMIC will rob even more power to GNOME.

>>101555069
>will rob even more power to GNOME
I don't even think that would even be necessary, just look at what's been happening to the GNONE foundation lately, and you'll see nothing but a grim future for the project unless they stop draining the little money they have left.
For god's sake, they literally only released the latest spending breakdown because bryan lunduke made a video about how they didn't release it this year, so they just scrambled together a pdf and released it like two days after.

>>101555165
>they literally only released the latest spending breakdown because bryan lunduke made a video about how they didn't release it this year, so they just scrambled together a pdf and released it like two days after.
Kek, imagine caring about an Internet Culture War Grifter.
Another project would have ignored him.

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>just works

>>101555201
He's the only person actually writting about the important news, and not someone like the dude from phoronix that literally just posts about release notes.
But, hey, I don't expect a woketard grifter like you to even understand this.

>>101555237
>But, hey, I don't expect a woketard grifter like you to even understand this.
Hi, Lunduke!

>>101555230
Isn't part of the Windows display shit in the kernel?

>>101555230
>has VRR
>has fractional scaling
>has HDR
>low latency
>works literally anywhere
It's over, Loonix cucks lost. Pack it up boys

>>101555230
They use Xwayland for WSL, which makes them even gayer than your average troonix tards

>>101549741
Just port explorer.exe to linux

>>101555312
That ain't a display server, anon. The equivalent would be dwm.exe and that isn't a display server either.

>>101555264
I'm not lunduke, you should take some meds since he's living rent free in thy head.

>>101555405
Same. Not everyone is a wokester just because calls Lunduke a grifter.

>>101555043
From what I've seen the devs of those, the extensions and display servers or compositors or whatever work together at least on some of this. Smaller pieces making up the whole

Why can't freetrannies make something that just works and works good?
Every time they're about to reach peak, some random looney troon goes "WHOOPS, SOZ BUB I DON'T AGREE WHERE THIS PROJECT IS HEADING TO, BETTER START A HALF ASSED ALTERNATIVE FROM SCRATCH!!" and then everything goes to shit, back to square -1 even.
It's every fucking time, why wtf.

>>101555466
Only woketards call everyone else a grifter.

>>101555575
Ok, grifter.

>>101555598
You're mentally ill, stop responding.

>>101555635
No, until you escape from the madness called 'American Culture Wars'

>>101555575
Nah anon, you're trapping, limiting yourself with the extremes of 'only', all, always, etc.. Grifter is used by anyone with a vocabulary that has grifter in it, no politics or theories involved.

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>>101549741
What distro and DE for as close as possible to just werks experience?

>>101555774
KDE, or anything else with Wayland as we are boycotting Gnome.

>>101555802
Are KDE and Gnome only options? I tried wayland on arch KDE about year ago and on Ubuntu 2-3 years ago maybe, it wasn't very pleasant. How is hyprland?

>>101555881
mint cinnamon also has wayland but I don't know what's it based on.

>>101554468
> stuff with permissions
we could have just ported plan9 display server and inherit permissions + stable communication.
>>101555481
> smaller pieces making up the whole
They are workarounds, the base protocols were restrictive toward communication (apparently the dev thought those weren't necessary, what may be true for kiosk, but for desktop is a signal of dementia). If it were aiming to be **modular** it would have defined protocols for stable and safe communication.
>>101555555
the trips dubs have said, wayshit is NIH syndrome.
>>101555881
kwin (kde), mutter (gnome), wlroots (sway and others), enlightenment (enlightenment), aquamarine (hyprland), wld+swc (velox), etc.

>>101556039
>muh plan9

>>101554795
I'm running gentoo with proprietary nvidia drivers (GTX 980) and a custom xorg config.

>>101556103
If we want a permission mechanism it's the best solution, although I think its model had some problems. If we wanted something akin to wayland (in terms of drawing) surfaceflinger could be a better attempt (porting and extending for desktop)

>>101556185
As I said in other thread, SurfaceFlinger needs work that already is done in Wayland. In that case, we should go with Freon.

>>101556215
> already done in wayland
the core protocols haven't accepted any of the so necessary extensions wlroots and others did.

Anyway the main point is that wayland is ill designed for desktop, it's the worse comparing to windows, mac, android, plan9, old mir, etc. So surfaceflinger would have been a better start, a better foundation to work on.

It has been a corpse for decades, until wlroots took effort to do the dirt work, so it's no excuse (the official protocols are pretty much still a corpse)

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>>101555555
checked and based

>>101556285
>the core protocols haven't accepted any of the so necessary extensions wlroots and others did.
Wow. Imagine having to use the staging protocols and the extensions. Hope God find us confessed and repented.

>>101556374
It sounds like you're expressing some frustration with the development of core protocols and their extensions in a certain area, possibly related to display servers or compositors like Wayland and wlroots. The evolution of protocols can indeed be a slow and sometimes contentious process, especially when it comes to balancing stability and innovation.

Many developers rely on staging protocols and extensions to implement features that are necessary for their projects, even if those features aren't officially part of the core protocols yet. It can feel like a workaround rather than a robust solution, which can be frustrating.

If you’re looking for improvements or have suggestions, participating in discussions within the community or contributing to the development efforts can be a way to help steer the implementation in a direction that better meets the needs of users and developers alike. It's a challenging but important part of open-source software development!

>>101556417

>>101555555
No matter who Wayland sends to me, I will not use it until qgis works on it.

>>101549741
Discord and Steam still don't support copy+paste. WTF

>>101556578
you need to understand 2 decades is not nearly enough to support features that complicated, specially when there's no use case.

>>101556578
What the heck are you talking about? I am using copypaste just fine in Discord with Wayland.

>>101549741
Display server situation in Linux is still better than the audio situation

>>101556688
please don't open pandora's box.

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>>101549741
No, the issue is that Wayland is design by comity and doesn't do the best effort to get x11 application through xwayland to behave properly and well integrated in Wayland. Windows solved this issue a long time ago with DWM replacing the old stacking window manager in Windows vista. that's like 16 years ago. meanwhile Linux is still struggling with the same problem.

>>101556801
It's like Windows throws cash towards the UX/UI but the ones who throw money to Linux do it to the server stuff.

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>>101556838
uhh usecase for cash??

>>101556929

>>101556838
>It's like Windows throws cash towards the UX/UI
No they don't, at least not anymore, it's just that they know that in order for windows to succeed is for it to be a stable platform and reliable platform and they did this by having stable ABI and just add new versions of features and libraries rather than remove the stuff, but by that consequence is that Windows will not be constant design wise.

>>101556801
> x11 is shit
> *do wayland*
> wayland is shit
> do a frankstein of x11 and wayland where neither works correctly
linux is doomed to die

>>101549741
d'you know why AMD always hides behind 'the spec'? because their curry nigger programmers only ever do the absolute minimum - and often less - to conform to spec and call it done, whereas NVidia actually wants shit to work and give end-users a good experience.
then AMD and its fans gaslight users and developers by blaming nvidia for their own failures, such as when nvidia does go slightly beyond spec to make shit actually work in practice.
linuxoids tend to follow this pattern of gaslighting and blame-gaming in lieu of actually making their shit work in real-world environments.
so when their otherwise seemingly reasonable demands get annoyed by commercial developers, this is one of so many legitimate reasons why.

>>101556969
>linux is doomed to die
*doomed to catch up with windows.
it's always years behind of windows when linux moves Windows moves to so linux will never pass windows.

>>101557057
>$0.01 USD were deposited in your account. Thanks to help nVidia correct the record!

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>>101557145
kike nigger faggot dial8 more

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>>101557145
why are you on the internet when you should be dilating your axe wound?

>>101557244
>>101557271
Samefag

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>>101557338
at least i still have my penis

>>101556659
nvm it does work, I didn't have anything in my clipboard lol

>>101549741
>Gayland

>>101556801
DWM is not a window manager, its a compositor. It basically does the same thing as compiz on linux, which has existed as long as DWM.

>>101558161
Is both a compositor, a window manager and something only Microsoft understands because part of Windows GUI is backed at kernel level and I am not talking about things like a DRM equivalent but widgets and decorations.

>>101558577
The classic window manager inside win32k.sys is still there and is doing the actual window managing. DWM is hack grafted onto the side of window manager. You can kill the DWM process and your windows don't go away, because DWM is not the window manager.

>>101555555
checked, real

more like noland, amiright

>>101555555
sex

>>101549741
Masquerading as a desktop environment
My kiosk has really stupid requirements
And if I claim to be the future
It surely means that I just blow

>>101555290
You forgot
>recovers perfectly from crashes

wayland is using up a lot of resources before it becomes inevitably deprecated and distros roll back to xorg

>>101561149
>today in things that will not happen:
That and Arcan as the new display server that will save us.

>>101561149
they joke about x11 being 1980s tech for your modern dual gpu system but thats a testament of how fucking good x11 is and how utterly garbage wayland is that after 15 years of development it still can't fucking replace that 1980s tech.

>>101549741
YES, if it worked you fucking retard.

>>101554463
everything is fine, how has the linux desktop been destroyed
install openbox, make two tint2 panels
if you're willing to spend an hour setting things up you can even get the classic triple menu back with openbox and xdotool
install your choice of gtk or qt applications

>>101561233
openbox doesn't support wayland

>>101561250
fair enough, but I'm sure we'll get a decent window manager or compositor or whatever they're called on the other side that works as well someday. gnome3 didn't destroy the linux desktop on x11, and wayland won't do it either

>>101561205
Wayland already replaced Xorg in my machine :^)

>>101561258
labwc is the most approximate thing to Openbox in Wayland.

>>101561300
seems promising
and it's already available in debian trixie
see, you can trust free software, you can trust the process

>be me
>start KDE wayland
>play with the color options in display
>mfw the colors of my IPS panel are now more saturated than before
It feels like I got a different panel. I like it.

>>101555774
Latest stable KDE with Wayland on Arch is the best Linux laptop experience I have ever had. And I have been hating on KDE ever since the KDE 4.0 release. It's finally back.

I'm never going back to GNOME.
I'm never going back to Windows.
I'm never leaving Arch.

p.s. thanks for the pape.

>>101549741
this 15 year old protocol without an api for windowposition is the reason why linux is going nowhere

>>101551612
wayland is the one tearign and lagging

>>101549741
I wonder why I cannot make my LG C2 use 120Hz refresh rate when on Xorg / Openbox. But it works like a charm on Wayland / Sway.

Fuck Xorg.

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>>101549741
This is the biggest problem. This should be the linux only thread and yet people still talk about windows.

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Instead you should ask, is being able to share your screen REALLY so important?

>>101549757
FPBP

just installed
>nvidia-beta-dkms 560.28.03-1
>wlroots-git
>sway-git
after all these years, it actually werks. xorg sisters... i think it's the end of the road for us

>>101549741
it would if it was usable

>>101549741
> remember this clearly false information
Call me when I can color calibrate my screens under Hyprland and I'll consider Wayland.

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>>101555555
>trannies make software for ms/google/apple/anything
>it just works
>trannies make software for linux
>it doesnt work

>>101567391
small update
emacs-wayland was double rendering so i switched from vulkan to gles2, enabled adaptive sync, and turned off direct scanout on wlroots, now everything really does just werk
we had good times together x11-chan, i won't ever forget you

>>101550105
>>101553397
That's due to the compositors' vsync implementations being trash. If you run a window manager without any compositing, the monitors will run at their proper refresh rates. But yeah, that's a thing Wayland does better.

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>>101555555

>>101567940
The sad thing is many of these questions had an answer before the Linux desktop was sabotaged in the late 2000's when Microsoft started getting scared.

>>101568035
>linux desktop was sabotaged
>implying that desktop linux was something at some point in time
>muhh microsoft

>>101549741
Still not moving from X11. I'll change OS before changing display server.

>>101550105
The two users who are too poor to buy a second 120hz display, but have enough disposable income to buy one 120hz display might find that feature useful. For rest of us, Wayland is a broken boondoggle.

>>101568074
christfag

>>101568074
To be honest, if you use a laptop or just a single simple monitor, there really is no reason to ditch xorg. X11 isn't mature for every setup, but wayland on the other hand isn't mature for any setup.

>>101568035
>muh sabotage
If you keep yapping about how Linux is a community project that is as good as people make it, maybe don't run the "corporate sabotage" rhetoric? You know, maybe that's the reason people think Linux users are unhinged?

>>101568121
>source: my arse
Your special snowflake use case aint the norm.

>>101568121
>X is not mature
Retarded zoomers alert. X just passed it's 40th anniversary. I've been running a 900x1600 and 1080p dual screen setup for about half a decade now. I've used about 4 differ GPUs on this machine. Never had stability problems.

>>101568155
Linux hasn't been a community project since the early 90's. REHL has existed for a very long time. Long before Microshaft started causing trouble. Hell Linux is older than winblows.

>>101568260
The real issue is it's outdated in it's feature set. Good enough for desktop work, but for more modern features it's crap. Wayland was meant to solve that but it became an unfixable unstandardized mess. So on Linux you have to decide which compromise you want to take for your use case with the display server.

>>101568260
>xshit user
>no reading comprehension
Kek.

>>101568260
What do you think about vsync in dual monitor setups with different refresh rates? What about scrolling in firefox on >60hz monitors? Cause if you've set those up, I won't waste more time with the dumpster fire that is wayland.

>>101568329
>Good enough for desktop work, but for more modern features it's crap.
WTF are you talking about? What "killer features" is X11 missing specifically? X11 was designed with a "shotgun" mentality because display technology evolved rapidly around that time. Since the late 90's or so, display technology hasn't evolved that much. Higher pixel densities, higher refresh rates, but few revolutionary changes. Wayland lacks a standard way of copying and pasting, but hey let me know what X11 is missing.

>>101568382
>making nVidia behave
Wayland killer app.

>>101568334
>I won't waste more time with the dumpster fire that is wayland.
I agree. 10 years ago I thought that having a second option for display servers would be a good thing. Many FOSS projects lack competing implementations and I hoped that Wayland would eventually have a real standard (X11 has a real standard, not a reference implementation) and would offer real competition to the real problems in the X11/XOrg. Sadly, that never happened and instead gayland has been a massive waste of time and resources and has been a huge distraction. Calling gayland vaporware is accurate, but a huge understatement. Personally, I consider it malware.

>>101568443
Nice BS.

>>101568427
nvidia has been notoriously painful to setup on Linux - and particularly broken on gayland. But nvidia has recently announced that they will start distributing drivers in the same manner as AMD which means that linux distros will have an easier time integrating their GPUs with any display server. Even this "feature" is moot in 2024.

who genuinely cares enough about x11 to defend it? people just don't like the wayland team

how do these threads still get hundreds of replies every time they are made

>>101568459
Wow, so finally novideo will behave. It just costed us a lot of pain, broken reputations and FUD.
For a shit wrapper for a giant blob.
Thanks novideo. The damage is done already.

>>101568500
>4 decades of backward compatibility
>runs on every unix
>implementations on android, mac, and windows
>4 decades of continuity
>literally dozens of frameworks for building guis
>but who cares
Honestly, you technology "enthusiast" are the

>>101568539
are you using a 40 year old keyboard, too?

>>101568539
Wow. Lacking color management and DPI per monitor is worth to run my motif/athena app.
Thanks X11, you're truly the chosen one of display servers

>>101555555
blessed SEXtuple poster

>>101568549
If it still worked I would. I have a 10 year old mechanical keyboard. No problems. Why should I replace it? You're a consoomer in addition to being an updooter. Fuck off. I want things that work. Tinker belles get fucked.

>>101568593
I'll trade that for stability. If you're actually doing something like professional video editing, then you'll use a color calibrated display with a professional workstation. X11 color management and DPI is just fine for 95% of users. The 5% of you can find your own solution. Also, XOrg had an update this year to implement exactly what you are bitching about.

>>101568673
>*oomer shit
Would you people just fuck off back to /pol/ already? Not everything is a struggle for the soul of the WWest.

>>101568673
Haha. No, thanks, but already migrated to Wayland. :^)

>>101568690
You've been called out for being a big man who needs to fill his empty soul with the novelty of material shit. You outed yourself because you can't fathom someone would continue to use a still working keyboard without replacing it every couple of years. Fuck, there are people using old IBM keyboards from decades ago. Literally communities of people do exactly this. Why shouldn't people be just as devoted to a display server - a much more complicated piece of technology - which they know and use daily. Why should I be tasked with rewriting code which has worked for years because you want the dopamine hit of something new. I won't do it and I'll never migrate. Go neck yourself loser.

I run an IceWM+picom setup on my laptop. If wayland can offer good options for all minimal DEs, then I could take it into consideration.

>>101568771
I'm not reading all that. Have a lovely day, though.

>>101568733
Cool. Now fuck off and stop talking about x11.

>>101568781
I've clearly hit on something. You're a worthless consoome. A lonely neck beard atheist who has to fill his empty soul with material novelty because the spiteful mutant can't imagine something beyond the material world.

>>101568787
No. I will shit on that PoS until I die.

So we've waited 20 years for wayland and it turned out to be shit. Now what do we do? Are there any other display managers worth supporting or is Xorg gonna have a century long lifespan?

>>101568813
You're right upset about something, but it's hard to tell what.

>>101549757
>wayland bad and lack of X
Anon, that you mentioned will be support later.
>nooooo why they want to ditch X11
Bc troons works for free and they want it. As long as they support it and add features. I don't care.

>>101568593
>color management
Why do wayland shills always lie? The color/HDR MR is over 4 years old and still open.
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/14

My issue with x11 is that if I set my scaling, I have to log out. And even when logging back in, some things remain tiny. It's not uniform and there are a ton of glitches. There's also the issue of screen tearing.

Meanwhile on Wayland, everything updates as I set them. Things look uniform and nice. It also supports variable refresh rate displays, something x11 doesn't do at all which caused my display fan to lock at 100% where on Wayland and incidentally on Windows and Mac works as intended.

Say what you will about everything else, x11 is a mess that needs to die. For everyone's sake. It's not 1997 anymore. Fix the above mentioned issues and I'll use x11. I don't give a single fuck what the display server is called, I need it to function as intended and x11 is crushed under the weight of modern hardware. Especially 4k 120hz and 240hz vrr freesync displays with HDR.

>>101568826
See that's the problem with tech "enthusiasts". You're not content to have things that work. You're not happy when a solution works for you. You want everyone else to conform with your vision. Well too bad for you X11 will never die. Other systems like the Solaris clones and openbsd will never support Wayland in any meaningful way. And even on Linux wayland support for wine is a clusterfuck because of how that retarded system (in not calling gayland a standard because it's not standardized) is designed. It's here for next 40 years. I really doubt that wayland will be.

>>101568898
Who gives a solitary fuck about color management, just support HDR. If you don't have an HDR display and you're trying to edit videos and photos in 2024, you're not worth supporting. No use case. Not a bug. Won't fix. You're trying to create an issue nobody has just to win some sort of Internet pissing contest that you yourself started that nobody else cares about at all.

>>101568898
KDE already has it, it works and is part of the reference implementation :^)

>>101569076

>>101569094
It's like these x11 shills just want to argue instead of actually using their computers. Either that or they're using really ancient hardware that should have been recycled a decade ago.

>>101568963
>My issue with x11 is that if I set my scaling, I have to log out.
Cool. Very niche problem. But glad you found a display server that fits that need.
>Say what you will about everything else, x11 is a mess that needs to die.
And yet x11 is cleaner than gayland. Sure it has some cruft like a print server because computer printouts were more common back in the 80's when x11 was being designed. But that's what comes with older standards. FTP supports record based file systems. We still use it at work to interact with some embedded devices. Its pretty much the industry standard.

>>101569076
>openbsd will never support Wayland
Ahem*
https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/linux-graphics-x-org-drivers/wayland-display-server/1288762-wayland-1-20-alpha-released-with-upstreamed-freebsd-support-autotools-nuked
Anon are you retarded or something?

>>101569138
>cleaner
So clean that it went without maintainers until an anti vaxxer schizo decided to spam merge requests.

>>101569090
I wouldn't brag about gayland's support for HDR. X11 will get it when people want it badly enough. Hell it will probably have a stable solution before gayland itself is stable.

>>101569138
Rotate a display on Wayland, works as expected.
Rotate a display on x11 and it's the wrong way or it resets seemingly at random.
X11 has no HDR support
X11 has compatibility with old software. Newsflash, software hasn't stayed stagnent. It's updated to support Wayland.
Whether you like it or not the future is Wayland.

>>101569164
>So clean that it went without maintainers
Stability means that it can survive for long periods of time without supervision. You've actually pointed out one of X11's strengths.
>ooooh but don't you see, every gayland implementation has 100 updoots every week
This is one of the biggest problems with gayland. The fact that nothing much changes in X11 from release to release is a feature, not a bug.
>anti vaxxer schizo
You're the consoomer bug man from before. Go jerk off to tranime and troon out.

>>101569168
I haven't had a single issue with Wayland being unstable, but I have several issues with x11 that are replicateable. Eat my ass. I'm not going to wait 30 years for you to getting around to support HDR. Just like I moved on from Gimp to Krita, I moved on from x11 to Wayland because let's face it, people are sick of waiting for your lazy asses to make it work properly.

>>101569189
>muh stability
Of course is stable, because everyone tries to not talk the X server as much as they can
>autist and afraid of change
k

>>101569182
>Rotate a display on Wayland, works as expected.
When gayland hasn't shit the bed and decides to let users copy and paste between windows. Sure.
>Rotate a display on x11 and it's the wrong way or it resets seemingly at random.
Werks on my computer. Also not a big issue since I don't spin my display around like the liberty tax mascot spins his sign. I rotate my displays maybe once or twice when I setup my workspace. The gayland killer features so far are: it has support for retarded mixed refresh rate setups that nobody uses and spinning digital signage.
>X11 has no HDR support
I don't care about HDR support. Nobody is doing high level video and image correction on single user linux systems anyway so its really not a concern of mine.
>X11 has compatibility with old software. Newsflash, software hasn't stayed stagnent. It's updated to support Wayland.
Newsflash, software basically doesn't change outside of webshitting. Old mainframes are running unmodified code from the 1970's. I don't have a need to upgrade or update. And I won't. Literally last week we saw the largest outage in IT history because of updooters like yourself.
>Whether you like it or not the future is Wayland.
I've already laid out that it isn't. Nobody is going to port wayland to the BSDs or other unixes. At least not in a comprehensive way that ports all the broken bits of your so called protocol (still not standardized). Nobody is going to port it to obscure Unixes which still have institutional users like the solaris clones. Nobody is going to write a gayland server for windows or mac. Gayland isn't going to have smooth integration with wine - ever. X11 is here to stay.

>>101569208
Cool. Fuck off. I'll reiterate what I've already said. Glad you found some tinker troon display server that worked for you. Anything more is not my problem. Asking me to rewrite software that I've used for years and telling me not to use stable software that has worked for decades is not going to happen.

>>101569208
Krita idiots dont want to support Wayland because they're lazy fucks. That's pretty much their argument.
>Nobody is going to port wayland to the BSDs
Both FreeBSD and OpenBSD have working Wayland implementations now.
>muh BSDs
Yeah, sucks Linux is the de facto Unix implementation.

>>101569182
>Rotate a display on Wayland, works as expected
Literally doesn't work on sway with a DisplayPort connected monitor.

>>101569229
I think that's the whole argument in a nutshell, is these spergs are scared of good changes. Any change is bad. Which is why x11 is such a broken mess. They refused to fix it. Well the world moved on from their shitty little fan club and now they're bitching and crying like sad children projecting shit like
>Everyone needs to see things from my vision
They lack the ability to see that people have hardware that needs support. Meanwhile they're holding onto old dual core celerons running on crt monitors. You'll see them all proud of it too like it's some badge of honor when in reality it's just really sad.

Look if you want old hardware, run old software on it. Nobody is stopping you. But to demand that we cater to your sad excuse that you call a computer, I'm going to have to stop you there and tell you to kindly fuck off. You don't deserve new software if it's going to take up my very limited development time. I'd rather move on from x11 as many others have as well. Good luck finding software to run on your 30+ year old PC but we're moving on.

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>>101569094
>KDE already has it, it works
Actually no, it doesn't. KDE implements a subset of the HDR standard and protocol MR. It can't do for ex. color calibration in the wayland session. KDE's protocol is a stopgap much like gamescope's (in fact, it literally is Josh Ashton's protocol with some tweaks), and exists because the proper protocol still hasn't been merged.
https://zamundaaa.github.io/wayland/2023/12/18/update-on-hdr-and-colormanagement-in-plasma.html
>>101569120
>x11 shills
I use hyprland. Migrated from KDE X11 too after the Plasma 6 launch shitshow ;)

>>101569309
shouldn't software just work in a proper de assuming they use standard stuff like qt or gtk

>>101569266
Wayland is coming to BSD anon whether you like it or not. You're so out of touch with reality you missed the memo.

>>101569283
The only ones tinkering are you x11 faggots. I never tinker with Wayland, it just works. X11 has been the thing holding Linux on the desktop back.

>>101569330
Works on kde plasma 6.1.3. your fault for using trannyware tiling bullshit.

>>101569309
>Yeah, sucks Linux is the de facto Unix implementation.
Linux isn't even a proper Unix. Its unix like. But it doesn't have unix heritage like BSD and isn't POSIX like commercial unix. Also BSD is widely used in embedded systems including for things like routers. Your inability to understand things outside your subjective, highly limited perspective is what's killing this argument.

>>101552255
there is work being done to get it to x https://www.phoronix.com/news/X.Org-Server-Better-VRR

>>101569283
Then get left behind. Your software can't be that good.

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>>101549741
If all distros were using wayland linux would surely started going somewhere (right into the shitter)

Seriously how come troons can't use all the time they spend on shilling their dysfunctional trannyware to actually write code? Is it the additional sign that they just can't do it and give up just like with gayland still being completely dysfunctional after a decade of "development"?

>>101569330
>rtfm
>open a ticket
>>101569354
Is something and I trust the process now that GNOME has not so much influence in Wayland.

>>101569309
There's a qt6 build of Krita with Wayland support floating around but it's buggy right now. I just use Krita on Wayland with x passthrough and it just works. The developors of Krita began working on it though. I think being compared to gimp hit home.

>>101569429
>your fault for using trannyware tiling bullshit
You're right, back to i3wm i go.

>>101569453
>its not proper unix
Even better.
>implying that BSDs are entitled to things made for Linux

>>101569400
>holding Linux on the desktop back.
I don't want you faggots. I don't want your gaymin bloat. I don't want retards who sperg out about bash like this [0] retard did a few months ago. I don't want your kernel level drm. I don't want to tinker with display servers like wayland - literally nothing works. I don't want to fuck around with 3 different audio servers. Fuck off. I don't care about linux adoption. I doesn't matter to me in the slightest if your grandmother can install mint and play fortnight on it. Its not my problem.

[0]
https://github.com/linux4ever07

>>101566659
You should ask yourself Is seeing the desktop really that important ?

>>101569471
They have 1 transgender person working on Wayland out of a team of 750 volunteers. Saying
>I don't want to waste my time being a bigot
Is not the same as
>I support all things woke
Calm down it's not that big of a deal. If you truly hated trans people, you'd be doing more than bitching on /g/. You're just false flagging to make an argument nobody cares about because Linux is starting to do well on the desktop and people are beginning to switch from Windows.

>>101554769
The only sensible answer in this thread.

>>101569547
Yawn* see>>101569605
You just exposed yourself as the paid shill false flagging faggot you really are. Fuck off.

>>101554769
Falseflagging this hard. It must be hard for Microsoft to be losing users this quickly. If it were such a small percent that nobody wanted it, why are you so upset about it?

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>>101569471
Wayland was designed to ensure a constant stream of consultancy jobs for Collabora. The fact that good software exists that is labeled wayland (kde, hyprland, wlroots) is an accident of the fact that the lack of effective central control of the project allows people to hack their own protocols to make things work and still be considered wayland-compliant. All you need to do to be "wayland" is to implement the handful of stable protocols, other 30 or so are formally optional in spite of being more or less essential for desktop use, because of the original philosophy of an extensible kiosk designed to be adapted to specific hardware by manufacturers like car companies.
https://wayland.app/protocols/
The goal of the project among regular users and influencers is more about owning the Xorg chuds than in actually improving the linux desktop, hence the widespread resistance to allowing tearing or implementing explicit sync versus the publicity surrounding e.g. wine-wayland, which can't actually deliver a performance improvement versus Xorg or Xwayland because the application isn't rendering through the display server anyway.

>>101569168
> X11 will get it
It won't, X11 is "maintained" by the Wayland "devs" they will not allow any new features into X11

>>101569605
This, the anti-"tranny" shit is all just peformative. Now watch someone reply to this post with a picture or pictures of trans women with slightly unfortunate facial structures. Because we all know /g/ is just full of hunks!

>>101569701
So hating wayland is about trannies.
Great.

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>>101569744
Feel free to point out where I mentioned trannies.

>>101569701
I like how it mirrors commercialism. If something exists to make money, the side effect happens to be that it's a good product. If it sucks, nobody is going to pay any money for it and it'll flounder and die. It's not an accident. It's by design. Excellence is required of a product or that product doesn't get to exist because nobody buys it. The control is the means of production from start to finish, money. You don't need to micro manage it. The most successful companies are the ones who let things happen organically. Minecraft is one of my favorite examples of this. To this day Microsoft has very little input over the game itself. Things are going to continue to only improve, because if they don't, the money will dry up. There's no abject goal to own anybody in some Internet bitch fight. The developors who speak their mind, do so of their own accord. People like Wayland. It's a solid project.

X11/xorg suffers from their developers full of pride and arrogance. They don't want to support new hardware because they don't care. If they want to live like this, great wonderful, go them. But don't cry when all the COMMERCIAL distributions switch to an open source COMMERCIAL solution.

>>101569821
I like the every frame is perfect mindset. It makes Linux on the desktop a beautiful experience. Look if you can't code just say so. Stay on x11 and please never support Wayland ever! We don't want your garbage products because it will make Wayland look bad. Lol. At this point does it really matter if we lose Gimp and wine when both projects are absolutely hot garbage by any measurement? Nothing of value would be lost if gimp and wine died tomorrow.

>>101569833
>X11/xorg suffers from their developers full of pride and arrogance
Xorg, Xwayland and Wayland are all maintained by the same people.
>>101569867
>Stay on x11
Nah, I'll keep using hyprland. I'll be sure to continue never supporting wayland though.

>>101569867
>I like the every frame is perfect mindset. It makes Linux on the desktop a beautiful experience
Until a program lags for any reason, dragging your cursor with it because otherwise the cursor might tear!

>>101569821
I'm tired of idiots who believe themselves to be outside of ideology.
Also, X11 history is a convoluted mess. More than "developers" the fault is commitees that drove that shit during the 80s and 90s.

>>101569626
>Paid shill
>for x11
schizo

>>101570147
>schizo
>wayland tranny shill
yes

>>101569821
Interesting that this post-ideological champion of human objectivity is worshiped by armies of right wing lunatics. More interesting that this seems to be the trend for everyone who postures this way.

>>101570147
Let's not pretend nVidia was not interested in keeping X.org alive and well when tried to pull the EGLStreams bullshit.

>>101569940
Different anon,
Nobody has made the claim that X11 is perfect. Its not. X11 has a complex history which left its mark on the protocol and on Xorg. Because of its age it also has lots of features that aren't very important anymore. Things like a built in print server and the lack of audio (that might be a good thing) are examples of where X11 shows its age. But that in no way justifies the argument to switch gayland which is AT BEST in a very early public beta. If I were being totally honest the wayland protocol is borked beyond the point of usefulness for anyone not in some incredible pointless niche like video editing on spinning displays with mismatched refresh rates. Everyone else is perfectly happy using X11 and either fixing some problems themselves or letting the DE/WM smooth out the interaction between user and display server.

People have been called conspiracy theorists for claiming that microshaft and Indians Badly Managed deliberately promote projects like gayland to gimp FOSS and push people into the hands of proprietary vendors and expensive consulting contracts.

>>101570201
>worshiped
Nah, vaxry's incredibly naive and has brought most of his problems on himself by continually apologizing for other people's behavior and trying to see reason in loons like Drew, the RH employee who banned him from FDO and lately Josh Ashton. But the net benefit is that my free desktop is practically FDO free since he had to NIH everything.
>>101570229
As matter of fact, nvidia implemented explicit sync work for X11 too. No one wants to maintain two versions (implicit/explicit sync) of the same driver when Xorg is still the professional standard.

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>install arch
>kde
>nvidia

>>101570229
nvidia supported FOSS? News to me. But I've never owned one of their over priced product because I'm not a consoomer. So it just doesn't concern me.

>>101570259

>>101570271
No, never supported FOSS in an honest manner. It always tried to gain upper hand in hostile ways. Most of the bad reputation Wayland gained was nVidia refusing to go with GBM. And they could go away with that thanks to Xorg (albeit barely).
>>101570283

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>>101569940
>projects xir's own ideological possession on everyone else

>>101570319
>>101570370
American internet infrastructure at its finest.

>>101570368
>Most of the bad reputation Wayland gained was nVidia refusing to go with GBM.
Again, don't care. I don't have nvida and I don't have gayland. Also some one in this thread said that gayland supports nvidia better than x11. So which is it

>>101570319
>>101570370
>I'm not an ideologue
>represents his opposition as metaphysical evil

>>101570401

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>>101570411
the concept of objective evil makes you troons so mad
feel free to die mad since it's not ever going away, no matter what you try

>>101570460
I believe in evil. Flagrant antisemitism, for example, is evil. But I haven't constructed your lot in my head as the incarnation of cosmic darkness, like you do for people who struggle with gender dysphoria. You're just idiots.

>>101570401
Both.
>before 555 and proper GBM support
Wayland compositors worked line shit unless they used nouveau
>after 555 and proper GBM
Now compositors work.

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>>101570411
also, imagine thinking that the conception of evil requires any sort of ideological premise. you troons are so far down the pedophilic animal raping devil hole that there's no coming from it.
we are unifying and it frightens you.

>>101570493
>oy vey, telling the truth about evil people is EVIL!!!111
die in a shit pit, faggot.

>>101570498
>>101570460
>>/pol/

>>101570517
Not detecting a lot of saintly virtue, despite all the talk about good and evil. You actually go to church, or just use talk about demons and possession to make your base animal hatred sound cooler?

>>101570520
>things i disagree with are automatically wrong!
go diving for millstones in a lake

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>>101570543
>attacking evil people is EVIL!!!!1
not a christcuck. keep coping with speculation while we continue working on how to make you face the wall - as is your destiny.

>>101570567
No, just go back to >>>/pol/ to cry about trannies.

>>101557057
its not good that nvidia is doing what lazy software devs aren't. gpu drivers shouldn't have patches for every game but thats the way nvidia went instead of telling the jeet devs to get their shit together

>>101570628
So the demon stuff is just an aesthetic thing, got it. And now we've got ancient Rome and impact font. Just splendid.

>>101551637
That is literally the same image, the only differences is that the left guy has slightly thinner eyebrows.

>>101570643
you talk like a midwit
why don't you go back 2 reddit

>>101561205
and in the 80s we didn't have much resources to waste like nowdays so it had to be kept simple and well optimized. its no wonder current year devs are struggling to improve when no one these days has the skills of 80s devs

>>101570267
>alienware
yep actual retard

>>101567391
there being 100 tiling window managers for wayland really tells something about the target audience

>>101570693
I wish you'd never seen the shitty clickbait YouTube video that let you know this place existed.

>>101570639
realistically tho, how would it be sane to ever expect jeets and millennials who have effectively displaced all real developers at this point to get their shit together? it won't happen. they only get worse. i'm siding with nvidia's decision on that one. they actually have to do the grown up work to make - and keep! - shit working. they're about the only company left that takes responsibility to do that any more.

>>101570739
Yes: autists who want muh tiling wm in Wayland.

>>101570749
why not instead consider dropping your ego-driven delusions and join the rest of us in reality? ya it's harsh sucks at first, but then you actually become smarter. if you're going to remain stupid, get out of tech so you can stop bogging the rest of us down.

>>101570920
Brother, I am not taking lectures on reality from the /pol/tard who not 20 minutes go talked about lining me up against a wall and killing me for the crime of not worshiping an ancient display server.

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>>101570980
then the abuse will continue

>>101571064
Snap out of it, dude. Seriously.

>>101570980
then stop worshiping wayland, it's almost as old as xorg (not couting xfree86)

>>101571286
>not counting xfree86

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>>101571231
>snap out of not being an ideologue!!!11
those who demonstrate sustained unreformability will face the wall
when you project like this, you only harden the case for your demise

>>101570832
tiling wms just werk in x11 though because x11 just werks
unlike a certain nonfunctional display server

>>101571756
You are an ideologue so lost in the sauce that you can't even recognize the particularity of your own views anymore. Seek help.

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>>101571853
>being a pure pragmatist is being an IDEOLOGUE!!!11
all you do is project. you are 100% certainly a jew.
>Seek help.
gaslight more, kike

>>101571922
You are a "pragmatist" and utilitarian relative to the achievement of baldly ideological ends. Your ideas have been tremendously dangerous in capable hands.

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>>101571973
>baldly ideological ends
white people shouldn't be enslaved by jews
wow so ideology

>>101572008
Has it ever made you uncomfortable how much influence YouTube, Twitter, and anonymous image boards have had over the development of your view of the world? How you are proposing we kill people on the basis of a livestream you saw one time about how fiat currency is fake?

>>101571798
Your fault for buying novideo

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>>101572113
Has it ever made you uncomfortable how whenever you lose an argument you start talking about something else - like jews are known to always do?
everything that comes out of your mouth is premised on deception and one day it will be permanently shut by someone who sees you have left people with no other option.
but i guess in the end, the only person you have left to lie to is yourself.

>>101549741
>x11 is the issue why Linux desktop isn't going anywhere
no it's because you fags won't make GUIs for things and make other insane luddite decisions

>>101549757
based

>>101557057
>linuxoids tend to follow this pattern of gaslighting and blame-gaming in lieu of actually making their shit work in real-world environments.
Like libass having ASS in the name, but somehow managing to render subtitles differently than the 10+ year old abandoned DirectShow filter or its descendants.

if only it wouldn't break shit I use daily on x11

>>101572174
x11 works with novideo either (again unlike some dysfunctional display manager you have to buy a useless gpu for)

>>101572261
>GUIs for things
needing to slap a gui on everything is exactly luddite shit

>>101572372
No need to confirm X11 is the reason novideo can get away being a shitty FOSS actor, my dear shill.

>>101549741
xmonad doesn't support it

>>101573818
https://github.com/waymonad/waymonad

>>101569645
Who the heck is upset about it?
I'm only stating the things as happened. Unix never got a user base in home computers and this in the 90's meant Linux wasn't even considered as an alternative operating system for people, beyond some people.
That's it.

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>If you want global hotkeys, write your program for Xorg (XWayland supports hotkeys).
Explain the login behind this.

>>101574258
Xwayland is a Xorg server that dumps it's contents on a window It behaves like any Xorg server..
Global hotkeys are supported through org.freedesktop.portal.GlobalShorcuts. Most complaints about global shortcuts come from OBS/Mumble/Discord, software that still don't implement the aforementioned interface, thus are unable of registers their hotkeys
That's it.

>>101574308
So why doesn't Wayland just let hotkeys by default? It should be up to the user if he wants to expose keys. Also, why should devs adapt to Wayland if shit works better with Xwayland with less work?

>>101574418
>So why doesn't Wayland just let hotkeys by default?
Because by design a client can't snoop into another. It tries to isolate everything. The portals act as an arbiter of sorts.
>why should devs adapt to Wayland if shit works better with Xwayland with less work?
Because, as much as /g/ seethes, Wayland is bound to be the display server of the Linux world in the next three to five years (And by inertia, the BSDs. Those already have Wayland compositors working).
You can complain as much as you want, but the enterprise is committed to Wayland. You can't do too much really.

>>101574473
Anon I like Wayland, I just think their thinking backfires and causes pain for users. If a program works on both Xorg and Xwayland, there is no reason to develop it specifically for Wayland since there is no benefit at all (same way as there is no benefit of porting games to Linux when Proton/Wine exist)
>But people who don't want to expose their keys..
They don't exist or literally just a few people.
Also doesn't Hyprland support global hotkeys?

>>101574656
>Also doesn't Hyprland support global hotkeys?
Yes, but I don't know if they decided to go to their own cooked solution or he went to the portal solution. I should review the code.

>>101549741
>Fresh install of Debian, no other software.
>Lockscreen regularly breaks for just no reason.
>Can't screenshot because you just can't okay?
I'm sure it's all my fault and works for you, but I want it to simply do what it's designed to do, so x it is.

>>101575035
Let me guess: novideo

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>>101575070
This would just happen up to twice a day, every few days, with seemingly no fix.

>>101575101
I'm will try to help you:
What Debian version? Kernel version? GPU/CPU?
What does journalctl -r spit out? What does dmesg spit out?

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>>101575155
Surewhynot? I've been running x for months now, and am many packages in at this point.
This is the only highlighted error from journalctl:
>Jul 25 19:35:41 M700 pipewire-pulse[1075]: mod.protocol-pulse: client 0x55696e8e08f0 [libcanberra]: ERROR command:18 (PLAY_SAMPLE) tag:1746 error:25 (Input/output error)

>>101575229
How weird. Your setup in theory is perfect for linux.
Libcanberra is pretty much the ding you hear in gnome terminal. It's complaining about not finding pipewire (the sound server of linux)
Frankly, I have no idea about what happens in your machine. But I am also not surprised. In my experience, Debian always ends self destructing. Same with Ubuntu.

>>101575266
Yea it's pretty simple, not a lot going on.
That pipewire issue I think happened because of, or is maybe why I had issues with my bluetooth connecting to my speakers.
I usually have pretty good luck with debian in the long term.
I won't use arch because interacting with the pacman package manager makes me feel like a retard.
pacman -xRsS -rRRssS
>such simple context!

>>101575330
There are wrappers you can use.
Any ways, I find very odd that Arch is so stable compared with Debian. My Arch install crapped itself early this year but I managed to recover with a simple pacman command. Since then I had no issue.
I kinda wish have a way to make my install immutable though.

>>101549741
>tower of babel for trannies

>GNOME is a piece of shit that rewrites everything from scratch the moment it becomes usable
>it's totally X11's fault guys

On a house of cards made of technical debt
But it's cool so why don't people use it yet
I tell the world they don't need features
But I hear the penguins say

>>101572488
>actually works and keeps working
>shitty actor
cope lol

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>>101574473
Soon. Soon, it will finally be the year of the Wayland desktop!

>>101577689
just 20 more years!

>>101549741
I hope Wayland is usable by the time I'm forced to drop x11 for some reason.

>all this back and forth between gayland and (gay)sexorgy trannies
>still no usable desktop in sight or in the foreseeable future
good job retards
windows/wsl remains KING

>>101578170
Enjoy the backdoors cuck

>>101578215
>troonix
>no backdoors
lmao
also there's no hardware without backdoors which is even remotely recent

>>101578583
Minimizing backdoors and spyware is an important part of basic opsec. There's always a hole, and every hole's a goal, but the point is to monimize the risk. Windows maximizes that risk.

>>101578661
>Windows maximizes that risk.
if you can't work with it maybe
the entire business is running on windows and they somehow do have the risks minimised due to having a metric shitload of opsec people working on it

>>101578727
Oh yeah. Like they minimized the risk of a crash from something in kernel space that doesn't belong there due to a long running culture of letting things have ring 0 on Windows?

Linux noob here

Why do I need wayland? What's the pitch? X11 werks fine

>>101578913
You don't. Just a bunch of furry faggots and troons decided we needed to change things for the sake of change. Now nobody maintains X and yet it still works better than Wayland.

>>101578913
because trannies say it's new and better
in other words you definitely don't need it

>>101578913
so trannies can fully overtake the linux environment and make sure it doesn't work

I hate trannies so much bros

>>101549741
Classic loontroon. Instead of refining what works, you gonna invent 200 more clones and keep having wars with them

>>101579739
the issue that it's not even a clone, it's a dysfunctional trannyware being pushed to make linux desktop a way worse place

>>101567940
This right here is Microsoft brain-rotting. There isn't a best way to do anything of that, just as there isn't a best color, or a best food. Freedom of choice should be encouraged, not criticized. Just choose what you want, learn, and be happy, for Christ's sake.

>>101580014
The same freetard excuses for the same subject