>twitter screen shit

>>102266687
It helps me but I also have severe anxiety and who knows what else. I go into a spiral of self hatred that leads to a 2 day mild psychotic episode every ~4th time I encounter a problem that I can neither instantly solve intuitively nor ignore, so overall I'm shit

It's no doubt subjective / case by case.

>>102266724
Anxiety is a fucking reddit-tier mental illness, go get a cool one like schizophrenia or something

>>102266731
It's probably ptsd from being abused, but that's even gayer

>>102266687
This chart is dumb. 2,3,4 are 2d artistic simplifications literally nobody is going imagine those. Also, unless you are straight up hallucinating 5 is normal. Imagination is not literally seeing things.

I can spawn apples at will but they're always green :(

>>102266777
>Imagination is not literally seeing things
Anon, you have aphantasia, I'm sorry

>>102266777
Sorry anon, rough to find out you're an NPC.

>>102266777
>Imagination is not literally seeing things.
But it is, you're just an imaginationlet. I am too.

When people hear "imagine you're on the beach, the waves lapping at your feet, the sounds of seagulls cawing, the breeze is cool on your skin" they experience those things as vividly as a movie.
They don't vaguely recall a dim recollection of a time they saw those things as if reading a low resolution glossy menu, barely able to piece together the sights, sounds, and sensations.
They live a movie.

>Why don't people just spend all their time in side a dream world then?
Because it's tiring and because they have a mental mechanism to stop them from doing it.

>>102266687
i imagine i have a gf all the time

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>>102266703

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>>102266817
>claims he can't visualize
>also claims to know exactly how others visualize
If you didn't have breakfast yesterday what would it taste like if you burped it up today?

>>102266777
When I close my eyes, I start at #5 and it solidifies into #1. I can move it around, rotate it, etc. It isn't a hallucination.

I can't stop thinking of that Wumpa fruit post now. Thanks.

>>102266869
>It isn't a hallucination.
you don't know what a hallucination is

>>102266841
I didn't eat breakfast today.

And, I was just explaining what I've heard other people (including my mom, not that she articulated it anywhere near as concisely or beautifully as I just did) say.
Supposedly aphantasia can be cured, like odds are you can dream just like I do; supposedly you can sort of tap into that.
I mean, if I get really sleepy and twilight-y and lay in a position that's uncomfortable (I sleep on my belly, so for me sleeping on my back is uncomfortable) I'll start to dream a bit but not fall totally asleep.
So it seems reasonable to be able to tap into that at will with enough practice, given the brain's neruoplasticity.


>Why haven't you done it then?
It looked like a lot of effort and I'm bad at routines

>>102266904
im not reading that

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>>102266777
I literally create entire worlds with their own lore, factions, characters, etc... in my head and play out stories in them like I'm watching a movie. Very fun.

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>>102266888
>you don't know what a hallucination is

>>102266904
> Supposedly aphantasia can be cured
Nobody sane would want that. Being able to hallucinate at will is just a step away from hallucinating when you don't want to. I like knowing what I see is real.

>>102266817
>>Why don't people just spend all their time in side a dream world then?
>Because it's tiring and because they have a mental mechanism to stop them from doing it.
actually some of us suffer from being trapped in our own mental creations, it's called maladaptive ideation and is a symptom of several mental illnesses.

>>102266904
>I didn't
kek,
>Can train into it
Yes, you can and you're on the right track. Avoiding sensory input, meditating, reading books and pushing as much mental imagery as you can can take you so far.
Some research chemicals and hallucinogens can also help if your "imagination pipe" is too closed off, neuroplasticity is a big part of it.
But for some no-imaginationers it's just not possible. It's like autism, autists spend their whole lives learning to increase their sensitivity to low strength emotional signals like happiness but just never actually get there.

>>102266817
I am a cylon.

>>102266703
fpbp, kill yourself OP

>>102267033
fracking toaster

>>102266955
It's not hallucinating. It's a second layer.
Hallucinating is when you sense things in the stream of reality, visualizing is when you can voluntarily sense things in a second layer that you know is your imagination.

>>102266687
I can make the apple purple with teal stripes, cut it into 8 pieces, stick 5 of them back together, make it transparent, have it eaten by Asuka Langley... but I struggled a bit with programming initially, due to shit tier attention span. I'd say I'm decent at it after doing it for 10 years on and off though.

>>102266687
I’m kinda the same, I can only imagine backgrounds and buildings I see Infront of me at this very moment and use that as the backdrop for my imagination, or maybe I’m just too lazy to imagine other places like fantasy settings or khazakstan

>>102266687
No its about ability to see things inside your head not with your eyes so it doesnt matter if they are open or not.

>>102266687
Does it still count if I can imagine it in my head really vividly but I can’t see it in my ocular vision when I close my eyes

>>102266833
Obsessed frogstone

>>102266687
I cannot see things but I can hear voices

>>102266687
Probably not. Galton did early investigations into subjective imagination and found men of science and reason tend to have low/no sensual imaginary in the first place.

When I'm in in the zone I can FEEL the code structure and imagine its behavior in motion, completely outside of words or images. Code doesn't need to be "visualized' like an apple on a table. I think most programmers know this well.

>>102267392
>men of science and reason tend to have low/no sensual imaginary in the first place.
I don’t believe it
Also who’s Galton?

>>102266687
Seeing stuff in your mind as if you were actually seeing it is correlated to the presence of mental illnesses like schizphrenia and is absolutely not normal. Normal people can "see" in their mind but it has an unreal phantasmal quality, and most people should know what I'm talking about.

>>102267441
literally wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia

" To my astonishment, I found that the great majority of the men of science to whom I first applied, protested that mental imagery was unknown to them, and they looked on me as fanciful and fantastic in supposing that the words "mental imagery" really expressed what I believed everybody supposed them to mean. They had no more notion of its true nature than a colour-blind man who has not discerned his defect has of the nature of colour.[2]"

It brings into question how people like this interprete something like J.D.'s inner monologue/world. Did they think it was just a writing technique? Sure it's exaggerated, but we humans actually do experience that.

>>102266687
Like all artistic fields you're just supposed to zone out and then four hours later regain consciousness and have something impressive in front of you

>>102266687
I'm a solid 5 and can manage 4 when I get super concentrated.

>>102266777
Oh no

>>102266888
A hallucination is something you think you see with your eyes.
Notice how the apple isn't in front of the head?

aphantasia is not real
mental imagery is not the same thing as closed-eye visuals (tripping balls on DMT, salvia, ibogaine, etc.)
fucking retards, god damn

>>102267377
What do the voices say

>>102267377
Sounds are just easier to recollect.

>>102266687
>I am such a total 5

Literally impossible and talks like a fag

>>102267812
Voices? Are you retarded? There is only one inner voice, mine, and it can mimic anyone.

>>102266777
They don't literally appear like that, but I can create detailed images in my head. It isn't exactly like seeing and it tends to dissolve for me if I do not concentrate, but I can imagine pretty fine detail personally. Some people seem to claim that they can imagine persistent worlds and the like. I am not on that level, so cannot confirm.

>>102268008
Was definitely able to when I was younger, healthier and spent more time daydreaming.

>>102266687
Since when this has became a thing to be proud of? 90% of childrens are born with the imagination. It was always the other end, people who can't imagine are rare. For example, Jonathan Blow can't visualize any images. Even shitskins can do that.

>>102266833
Kek
One of my favorite serial webms

when i was a kid i could close my eyes and play gta san andreas in my mind

nowadays as adult i feel i can run a cad program in my head. i can imagine shapes, their dimensions, how different parts interact with each-other, simulate stresses, thermal conduction, etc. when i think about code, i think of abstract entities, connectors, adapters, interfaces, controllers, that plug with eachother. a database is like a nearly ordered library, a queue is like a conveyor belt, the network is a series of pipes.

>>102266687
I can only go as far as #3 (fuzzy abstract visualizations, no 3d rotations) but I have the equivalent of a photographic memory for sound. I can remember the exact tone of voice someone said something in, or remember a song I only heard a couple of times, and re-create the experience of listening to it, down to every individual instrument.

>>102268089
Congratulation, you now belong to 90% of people who can visualize things.

>>102267799
You're an NPC, sorry. Your brain doesn't work right, you're defective, you lack a primary ability that all other real and normal humans have.

>>102266777
Anon...I am so sorry for you, not only I can imagine an apple, I can taste it if I want to.

>>102266687
Not even slightly surprised that this fag has womanbrain.

>>102266955
It's more like taking a projector and projecting the image over some furniture instead of onto a screen. The image is faint and can't be confused with what's really there, but you can focus on it to the exclusion of the furniture. It's a similar process to looking through a window and then focusing on the actual glass in the window.

I can take the measurements of a product online, measure an object in real life to get a reference for height, and imagine placing the product in various places in my house, seeing it as if I had it.

>>102267450
Schizophrenia is the perception of motives and personalities that don't exist, e.g. the radio is talking to you. There are visual hallucinations, but primarily, a schizo is perceiving intentions that don't exist.

>>102266687
Everybody visualizes shit approximately the same way. We just don't agree on what words mean so some people think they "visualize" and some people think they don't, because they ascribe different internal experiences to the words used to convey the concepts.
The careful encoding of neural structures in your genes that leads to people naturally having the capabilities considered to be a part of basic thought without needing to be taught did not evolve separately in two similar but independent ways in two converging groups of humans.
This is just as stupid as the "is the 'blue' you see the same as the 'blue' I see? whoaaa" stoner thought that retarded armchair philosophers like to bring up to act smart.

>>102268306
You're are wrong, I'm better than you at this skill that can't be measured

>>102268306
They objectively don't visualize things the same way at all. People with aphantasia vs those that can visualize have distinctly different logical processes, reaction times and measurable physical/mental responses when given a visual/memory task.

>>102268326
You can measure it
There is a test that involves showing a complex 3D rendered geometric shape, then showing rotated variations (one correct, some with slight differences) and asking which is the correct rotated version of the object. It's directly correlated with IQ, also women are exceptionally bad at it on average compared to men

>>102268306
Either you see an apple or you do word association on "apple". It's not ambiguous.

>>102268349
>asking which is the correct rotated version of the object
That's a different skill set.
That's like saying a jigsaw puzzle speedrun is the measurement of your ability to draw

>>102268379
Not really. It logically makes sense that if you can visualize a 3d object vividly to the point where you can practically see it in your mind, you can also rotate it, since that's how visual memory and visual processing works. It's your visual cortex that is lighting up when you perform the rotation exercise.

>>102268349
Was gonna post this as well. People with aphantasia absolutely flunk the 3D rotation part of IQ tests, but those that learn to deal with it process it like a math question, dissecting the object into layers and giving them values.

Where if you ask me how I do it, I just rotate the object in my head. Like literally just turn the 3D image of it in my head like in CAD.

>>102268379
How is visualizing and rotating a 3D object in your mind's eye unrelated to the ability to visualize and rotate a 3D object in your mind's eye?

>>102268400
>It logically makes sense that if you can visualize a 3d object vividly to the point where you can practically see it in your mind, you can also rotate it
That's one way of solving it, being great at the exercise doesn't mean you're great at visualizing though because there are other ways of solving it
>It's your visual cortex that is lighting up when you perform the rotation exercise.
I'm sure doing jigsaw puzzles and drawing will have common parts of your brain lighting up as well. They're not that dissimilar tasks.
>>102268405
For it to be a good measurement, the process of getting the answer shouldn't matter.
I would argue someone who's great at it wouldn't solve it with visualization.
Have you read about how people solve rubik's cubes blindfolded? They don't visualize, they memorize a sequence of letters

Here's a good test for real 1s and 2s since some numberlets are getting an ego punching down on 5s.

Imagine a zebra. Okay? Now count out the stripes. It must be more than 30.
If you can't do this, you're not actually a 1. You're a 3 at best.
I counted 37 on mine.

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>>102268547
I can't count the stripes on a real zebra.

>>102268344
source: I want this to be true therefore it is

>>102268547
I can do a peacock with thirty eye feathers, but the image flashes.

>>102268573
I can add more, but it's as if I'm copy-pasting and constructing the image rather than imagining it outright. Symmetry seems to be important.

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fyi for all the people calling aphantaisiacs "NPC": they only make up 1-4% of the population and were found to have an average iq 5 points higher than control. those don't seem like NPC characteristics. hyperphantasiacs on the other hand were found to have an iq 5 points lower than control in the same study. https://academic.oup.com/cercorcomms/article/2/2/tgab035/6265046. not to mention all the anecdotal evidence pointing towards them being more likely to go into STEM.

so uhmmmm, cope.

>>102266687
hyperphantasm means you get pulled out of the "world" and into your own world.

>>102268792
> 14 male/10 female
> 8 male/17 female
> IQ difference
about that, anon...

>>102268860
>muh n
this is cope. link me a better study then.

>>102268864
btw if this is about sex differences as well, then mean is not supposed to differ significantly, only variance.

>>102268306

>>102266687
I'm a 3.5 on here, I think. If I try and imagine a white horse with a big red spot on it (like the Nihon flag), that's difficult to do. I can get it in flashes, but it's hard to keep the spot consistent in size. It's also difficult to tell where the imagined horse "ends", and where memories begin. Sometimes one of the "frames" of the image is clearly a morphed version of a memory, e.g. the pose or background are reminiscient of Shadowfax in LotR, or a white horse I once saw by the side of the road one day.
Maintaining a stable image of something, anything, that looks detailed and/or tangible enough to reach out an touch is way beyond what I am capable of. I believe that people can do much better than this, though, since I've read about people claiming to be able to do it (Tesla I think was one). Also, I have no talent for illustration, but I have to imagine that people that can draw things at will are good at this, to be able to picture in advance what it is that they want to put to paper.

>>102268864
I don't really have an axe to grind, but a small sample size with a large sex imbalance isn't convincing. The increased autism quotient is also odd, considering some autists describe their thought process as "thinking in pictures".

https://www.grandin.com/inc/visual.thinking.html

>>102266687
every person is capable of (1) when they're told to visualize how based I am.

>>102269114
I don't think a 10 point difference is noise, even if the sample size is kind of small. The sex imbalance should not matter either, as it was shown on multiple occasions that men and women have similar mean performance on IQ tests.

I also don't think it makes sense to refute quantitative results from a study with anecdotal stories about internal experience. You're free to be skeptical of their significance or authenticity and/or not believe them, but that does not provide certainty that they are false.

Autism is weird anyway because at some point psychologists decided to merge a bunch of nuanced distinct things into a "spectrum".

Really, my post was mostly aimed at people being so smug about their ability to hallucinate and belittling others who have different strengths.

>>102266687
I did not know there was anything other than 1.

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>>102266777
youpre like that colorblind fucker who thinks everyone else is just working for the illumanit and trying to trick him into thinking there are secret colors he can't see

>>102269142
0 (zero) percent based

>>102266955
you're an incredibly boring person

>>102266687
>hyperphantasia
There's a word for having a functioning brain now?

>>102269304
marge

>>102266687
> help you become a better programmer?
I can imagine how my code would look like with formatting and shit. I think being ADHD helps me more with being better programmer.

>>102269402
>I can imagine how my code would look like with formatting and shit
that's not something to be proud of. lol. syntax is just noise. if your brain can't boil it down and extract the things that it needs to conceptualize the code it then that's not an advantage. programming is about conceptual thinking with abstractions, not visualization.

General survey:
- Can you see an apple in your mind?
- Can you experience the taste of an apple mentally?
- Can you silently read this sentence in Trump's voice? "We've got the best apples, folks. Tremendous apples like you wouldn't believe."
- Can you feel an invisible apple in your hand?

>>102266687
daily reminder; if you can only achieve 1 but it's not accompanied by a smell sensation, taste sensation, a mouth feel sensation as you bite in the juicy apple, a sound sensation of the apple's crunch, you too, are an npc

>>102266687
i don't see how it wouldn't. I construct flowcharts in my mind as i piece together how something works. Also each piece of code can be visually represented as thumbnail where you can see rough structure with marked or tagged things you are tracing in your mind when you interpret the code in your head.
If not for visual imagination, how would you even do this? Narration like you're asking from Star Trek computer to read the code for you - extremely inefficient? Based on feelings - which explains why women commit buggy code one week per month? Based on math somehow - but then code is not as logical and straight forward as math?

>>102267450
skill issue

>>102269484
what is the point of a flowchart? just read the code bro. are you illiterate?

>>102269484
Code is text, so thinking in text should be fine. Visual programming has been tried time and time again but it's not actually useful beyond for making nocoders less scared.

>>102269542
I mostly agree with this sentiment, usually when I see people making flowcharts, including database visualizations, it's 95% of the time a cope because they're incompetent and can't think about the problem (and the chart doesn't help them) or they are doing mental masturbation.
Both results in convoluted and crappy code.

>>102269542
>>102269606
>flowcharts are useless
Yes to codemonkeys, but if you deal with architecture of a complex system it's very useful. And of course you zoom into the part that you are interested in and it's not a flowchart anymore, you switch to different mode of thinking.

>>102269606
>visual programming is shit
I agree. It always looks like modular synthesizer setup and is confusing as fuck. I'm not talking about that kind of visualization, more like coding in notepad vs coding in proper editor with file explorer, syntax, snippets, references etc. Most of this can be moved to visial imagination and can be picked for full focus at will.

>>102269825
whenever I hear "flowcharts" I imagine (lol) low-quality, low-performance, high-accidental-complexity microservices software or the like.

>>102269442
>- Can you feel an invisible apple in your hand?
yes but not without also visualizing it, making it not invisible
am I a subhuman brainlet now? :(

>>102266687
My biggest strength and the biggest weakness is my own hyperphantasia. I am pretty good at making all sort of detailed flowcharts/ proofs/ diagrams in my mind which are my main way of thinking as a software engineer but it's also my main weakness because I can easily loose myself in fantasy stories, daydreaming and daydreaming for hours

>>102266687
I can do all of even the empty one with enough concentration
Unironically if you want speed then 5 is the best, makes you read faster than most people

>>102269332
Okay becky

>>102266687
>the way your eyes see
Of course not

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>>102267019
>if you're not a zergling tool, then you have a mental disease
how the fuck did we end up in this timeline?

>>102266687
This is why it is so hard to explain to AI retards that AI is useless to me. My brain already generating anything I want without prompt, it's the execution is what you usually struggle with

>having aphantasia makes you an NPC
Where does this idea come from? Logically it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense because NPCs can't do almost anything that humans can do, yet this specific thing is singled out. I unironically suspect most anons who say this are just repeating it after hearing it from some other anon

>>102268249
that's bullshit

>>102268547
I only counted 24 on mine because it was at a 3/4 angle :)

>>102266929
Based

>>102269442
This is very fun. The Trump Apple test should be made official.
>>102269954
You can visualize it sweetie. You're not. Subhuman nor a brainlet :D

>>102269442
>yes
>yes
>yes
>no

>>102269442
1. barely, it's an abstract concept rather than something tangible (2 out of 5 on the visualization scale)
2. I can visualize the taste just well enough that tanginess even triggers my mouth to water (3 out of 5)
3. I can hear it crystal clear, and can even hear the reverberation of his voice at the rally, the ambient sounds of the crowd, and the recording artifacts/noise cancelling/gating (5 out of 5 on the scale)
4. no (2 out of 5 on the scale)

>>102269442
On a scale of 1 to 5 from nothing to full, vivid sense.
1. 4 in a flash, fades away to 1.
2. 3, continious.
3. 4, full control.
4. 2, 3 if I'm throwing an apple. Real senses of touch and weight interfere.

>>102266687
I can realistically simulate heat flux and fluid velocities like a CFD machine.
Get on my fucking level.

>>102267812
the answers to leetcode problems

>>102266687

aphantasia inspired me to become an artist (so i can imagine things outside of my head), however, i seem to suck at anything that's not 3DCG. drawing on a blank canvas is scawy uwu.

>>102267812
mumble mumble he aint mumble mumble angry noises coming from the a/c

5 but up to 2 in fever dreams

>>102266994
I have problems following normal conversations because I quickly zone out and daydream constantly. Usually, other people don't even realize that. I don't close my eyes, and I involuntarily move my head and do huhs and stuff, but in reality I'm somewhere else entirely.

>>102268509
I can absolutely solve a Rubik's cube blindfolded using my imagination. That being said, I'm not a pro, and it takes me like a minute as I have to think about what I'm doing while solving it, and there's always a chance I mess it up when I'm blindfolded.

A more interesting test for me would be chess. Every decent chess player visualizes several moves in advance. You just can't git gud at it without strong visualization. Beginners don't, and they are always surprised at their opponent's moves, or "calculate" 2 moves in advance and then forget that some pieces moved in that time. But at a certain level it shouldn't matter anymore. I'm pretty much the same strength when playing blindfolded as I am when looking at the board. The only difference is that it looks more impressive to people who've never played chess.

I wonder how people with aphantasia play chess and whether there's a ceiling for how good they can become.

>>102273535
>I wonder how people with aphantasia play chess and whether there's a ceiling for how good they can become.
having aphantasia doesn't mean you can't think in your head or contemplate what will happen next. it just means you can't "see" it. you can conceptualize it, but you can't see it like you see with your eyes.

>>102266813
like your day dreaming has any value

I can visualize anything but sometimes like I'm fighting my brain to keep visualizing things?

>>102266687
some brains are visual, other brains are conceptual
both can achieve high intelligence regardless

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>>102266929
based, I used to do the same when I was younger. In addition, I would try to emulate the sounds of machinery and war with my mouth (which probably made me look and sound like a retard to an outsider). I also find that my imagination works a lot better when I'm physically moving for some reason, so I would always go in circles and jump on the bed in my room.
my mom always thought I was just being hyperactive and venting my energy. Little did she know that I was spectating an epic battle between space-wizards and cylon knock-offs

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>>102274047
>like your day dreaming has any value

>>102274841
you are so desperate to have some value in your life you rely on things you didn't work for or even know you had, You're only better than tall people who make fun of short people because without them they would be nothing

>>102266687
who the fuck are the retards who are 2 to 4 on that chart?

>>102266687
How can’t you imagine 1? I’m serious since I was a kid I thought everyone can do that. Don’t you guys have soul?

>>102266687
Likely not necessary, but definitely helpful. My visual imagination isn’t very powerful, but it’s great for doing geometry and reasoning about data layouts

if you can't draw a somewhat decent horse or a bicycle by memory you are not below 3

>>102266687
1 is just a default state for white people though

>>102267331
Obsessed with what?

I didn't even know this was a thing
I have always been able to do 1# whenever I wanted to and I honestly thought this was the norm.
8ay8

>>102273670
I feel like chess would be easier with aphantasia actually because the concepts are probably simpler.
When I'm thinking ahead I have to visualize the whole board so I can't search through different strategies very deeply.

>>102266687
Can I obtain skills like these if I don't have them? Or is it genetic?

>>102269442
>Can you see an apple in your mind?
Not easily and not reliably. It helps if I go with a quick flash of movement (e.g. the apple being picked up) instead of a static scene. Also helps if I'm tired.
>Can you experience the taste of an apple mentally?
Not really. I can kind of induce some of the sensations that I associate with eating an apple, but it's so far away from tasting it that I don't think it counts.
>Can you silently read this sentence in Trump's voice? "We've got the best apples, folks. Tremendous apples like you wouldn't believe."
Yes, easily.
- Can you feel an invisible apple in your hand?
No.

>>102266687
How does he write books with characters in them if he can't even visualize them?

>>102266687
yes, I visualize my solutions in shapes and forms before writing the code down

>>102266687
>good programmer
that chart as other say is retarded
if youre talking about IQ, you must be able to think about several things at the same time and build something on top of that, while being subconsciously aware about its limitations and and a way that allows that "thing" to be improved in the near future.
theres no easy way to put this in words but thats what the mind of a high IQ individual operates.

>>102279816
I've heard some drugs can get you there, but finding a balance between this and permafried is the tricky part.

>#1 and #2 are seniors
>#3 are juniors
>#4 get internships but no return offer
>#5 is management

>>102268547
I can't hold it in my mind long enough to count. Also I can't imagine things in a vacuum, it always comes as an entire scene. For the zebra it was at a partial angle to me, standing in a semi-idealized desert with a bright cyan sky and fuzzy palm tree off on the right. When I try to count the stripes the image (noisily) shifts so that whatever spot I'm focusing on occupies my entire minds eye, and at that point it isn't the same zebra.

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>>102266687
Wait, people can't visualize objects in their head? I can imagine entire worlds in my head, vast cityscapes, and women nude who i've never seen nude with pretty good accuracy.

I've even attempted to use spacial memory in the form of a mind palace to store information I wanted to retain, with limited success.


What did these people do as kids? Never imagine anything? I'm just happy I never lost my imagination, I'd be so bored if I couldn't visualize things in my head.

>>102281355
kek'd

I will forever not belive that there are people othar than 1. It is impossible, you guys must be a different species. Imagining things is such a fundamental part of me that I can't imagine (kek) life without it, it would be just too.... dull.

>>102281466
I couldn't accurately imagine what my partner of 5 years looks like, and I've looked at her face a lot. Hell, if you gave me 10 similar-looking colors and asked me to pick the one that was closest to her eye color there's no way I could do it

>>102266777
my man just publicly declared himself a retarded automaton
I don't just visualize the apple, I can feel it in my hands, I can taste it in my mouth, I can feel the sensation of biting into it, and smell the juice on my lips and feel myself fighting desperately to get the fucking skin out from between my teeth
I can conceive of the entirety of the apple in my mind as real as the last time I had one, to know some people can't even PICTURE an apple in their mind makes me wonder how you can even be considered a person

tell me, if you had not eaten breakfast this morning how would you feel?

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>>102283463
ironic how you talk about automatons yet repeat the same zero-nuance reply made by like 10 other smug retards (and every /pol/tard) in this thread. who's the impressionable one who doesn't know how to think now?

how the fuck did this bait become so successful?

>>102266687
friendly reminder that people latched onto this to distract from the much more extreme mental inability to verbalize thoughts

>>102283761
>you claim to be an individual and yet you made the same good point as other people instead of making up bullshit, how ironic

>>102270967
Anyone can imagine being really good at something bro
It's called ideas guy

>>102283847
"You are an NPC for not having the same internal experience as me" is such a good point. Sure thing, low-IQ /pol/tard. Please go back.

>>102283835
>the much more extreme mental inability to verbalize thoughts
what do you mean? how does that even work? when they read, they dont hear the words in their brains?

>>102283893
You're an NPC because the simulation isn't devoting additional resources to your imagination

>>102284104
>muh simulation
You are a loser. This is real life, you're just bad at it.

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only 20.000000000000001% of /brit/ will understand this

>>102266687
Hyperphantasia/aphantasia itself likely doesn't have much impact, far less than other factors anyway.
It's hard to explain, but as someone with aphantasia, I can still conceptualize 3D space/movement - I can work out how things fit together in my head (even fairly complex mechanisms, and the more abstract flow of logic), but there is just absolutely no visual to go along with it.
Apparently processing of space and processing of vision take place in different regions of the brain (as is other forms of critical thinking), so it shouldn't be too surprising they can be independent, but it's not an aspect I ever really see anyone talk about.

>>102283761
>>102283463
>>102266777
like unless you have photographic memory you are not actually seeing the apple or a table in your head
you just trick yourself into you doing it
like if you imagine the scratches in the wood on the table you do not recall them perfectly and just fill in blanks in the details and pretend you knew it was there all along

it is not "literally" seeing

>>102283933
just read the text without reading out loud in your head?

>>102283933
Have you ever noticed people that start muttering when they read or think?

>>102273312
are you me?

>>102266777
>Imagination is not literally seeing things.
You poor sonuva bitch, you are like a color blind person never knowing how others see color
Also checked trips

>>102285648
it is not though
you lie to yourself about the ephemerality/permanency/consistency of the visions even if they feel true in the moment
but that is just the brain filling in blanks

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>>102285777
Tell me more about the color red that you've never seen.

>>102267799
This. They're all fucking retarded
Aphantasia is a communication problem, not a mental / brain problem

>>102284333
>it is not "literally" seeing

eh, that's like saying that you dont "literally" see something just because it's slightly out of sight in your peripheral vision. In fact, I think imagining an apple in my head is pretty much exactly like that. I can kinda get a feel for what it is, but not quite and then when I look at it directly whereas the equivalent with imagination would be to concentrate on specific details I want to see, I will see those specific details a bit better and the rest goes blurry

>>102267799
>mental imagery is not the same thing as closed-eye visuals
It's exactly the same for me, doesn't matter if I close my eyes or not.

>>102266777
>>102266817
i really feel bad for you. what's it like being an npc?

>>102286342
wrong, people are animals and some of them simply didn't get born with the ability to visualize things by default and they are inferior in that regard. Almost all of them can train themselves to develop that skill but by default they lack it. I don't make myself cope by saying that I'm equal to a guy with photographic memory, I genuinely think that photographic memory is a superior evolutionary development for our species

>>102286424
Not an npc. The people who claim they can see things in their minds are the npcs. If you have no subjective experience then imagination is no different to seeing, which is neither are seeing, because npcs never experience anything.

>>102286436
if evolution wanted us to have photographic memory then that gene would have won at some point during human history. most humans are designed to forget things. this feature works well in situations like severe shock and trauma.

>>102286489
we only entered the information age ~30 years ago, of course a skill like photographic memory was barely useful to the average human so far. But it is obviously superior now.

isnt this guy an author
how can you possibly write if you cant even visualize whats going on in your mind? are you just winging it at that point

>>102286485
OK, NPC.

>>102267329
youre not supposed to literally see it with your eyes, closed or not

>>102287107
You know how people out in public always seem to say complete nonsense and talk about nothing 24/7? He does that and then erases the bits he didn't like. Repeat until novel done.

>>102266777
I am sorry, Anon.

>>102286551
>of course a skill like photographic memory was barely useful to the average human so far.
This isn't photographic memory, Anon.
It's being able to visualize things in your mind in detail.

>>102266777
This. They pretend like they are watching an 8k movie when they close there eyes

>>102287447
>Pretend
I feel so sorry for you being born wrong.

>>102287447
given that 90% of men watch porn its safe to assume at least 90% of anons claiming this to be the case are full of shit

>>102287516
>he can't masturbate to mental images
Heh.

>>102287516
Lol no. But nice cope.

>>102287447
>pretend
Wrong.

>>102287527
sure I can, but there would be no point to porn if it was 1:1

>>102287540
The point is you don't have to imagine it, so it might surprise you.

>>102287550
>he can't imagine new things

>>102287558
Yes I can. Where did I say that I can't?
You're reading comprehension isn't very good.

>>102287565
>he can't even understand what the words he use mean

>>102287581
>He can't even read

>>102287540
Everyone needs some grounding in reality from time to time.
And boys need to see something real first.

>>102266687
If you're not leet coding while lucid dreaming, you're not going to make it

>>102287535
>>102287468
this vitriolic response to being called a pretender is kind of telling tbqfhwy
it is basically refusing to acknowledge you are filling in blanks in the imagined thing ad-hoc every time you "focus on details" and making a satisfied nod "yeah that is what I was seeing the whole time"

every aphantasia retard I've met also refuses to read books
Go read.

>>102266703
Also, TYD total yallocaust now

>>102266687
>am i supposed to be able to visualize red-black trees and shit with my eyes closed?
That’s what I do when I’m designing algorithms or solving math problems. But I know some really smart people who don’t have visual imagination, so it’s really ok if you don’t

>>102269442
Yes, no, yes, yes

Draw a bicycle from your imagination without looking it up
If your drawn bicycle would not function irl you are sub3 and you're lying to yourself

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>>102266687
You shouldn't need to visualize most programming stuff unless you are doing design, UI, or graphical work.
You might be conflating visualization with understanding. If you can develop a deep understanding of core programming concepts, you won't need to visualize them to program well.

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>>102266687
>p1: hey man can you see an apple with your eyes closed
>p2: ...no... are you retarded... my eyes are closed
>p1: OMFG I'M SO MUCH SMARTER THAN YOU
versus
>p1: close your eyes and think of your phone
>p2: hmm... okay
>p1: picture it in your hands
>p2: sure... now what
>p1: now picture it starting to float out of your hands
>p2: alright
>p1: describe what's happening
>p2: it's going above my head... like a balloon into the sky
>p1: now it's getting heavier. describe it to me
>p2: the phone stops up there... then it starts to come down
>p1: is it about to hit the ground?
>p2: no, it flew really high up... and a bird grabbed it

>>102269442
If you pass test 3 and is not american then you have had too much TV and politics that he is now living rent free in your head

>>102266687
Sometimes I get so entrenched in my thoughts that I start dreaming with my eyes completely open, but completely unaware of the world my eyes are seeing.
And yes, I can visualize shit on my mind with my eyes wide open and superpose it in front of other things.

>>102291168
you don't need to have perfect image in your mind to draw. there's a lot of artist with various degrees of aphantasia. the brain just get around it like everything else. it always finds a way.

that's why a lot of artist have diferent metods to draw. some start painting on the the spot like sculptors with colors drawing shapes until it feels right to them, some just copy what's in their mind and others construct things because they have the knowledge of how things are made.

the only retard here are those that say apahntasia doesnt exist because i don't see it.

like duh. is not you fucking brain.

not all people is good at math but everyone is able to dothing on paper with a calculator.

as an artist in my experience aphantasia is more common in women but is not something that prevent anyone from drawing or making some form of art. the process is just different.

>>102266687
I'm at 0 on that scale.

>>102291560
>you don't need to have perfect image in your mind to draw
True, but if you've seen a bicycle before and you cannot draw one that makes mechanical sense then you are definitely incapable of visualization

>>102291746
>you cannot draw one that makes mechanical sense then you are definitely incapable of visualization
grab a picture as reference problem solved.
a lot of people do this.

>>102266724
stop being a faggot.

>>102290449
So how do you live with your defective brain? Ever thought about suicide?

>>102292910
I would argue your brain is far from defective if you notice when it is making shit up

>>102293184
Hyperphantasia isn't schizophrenia, even if your ego desperately needs it to be.

>>102266777
i think some people think its like when you stare at a light bulb for 10 seconds and then close your eyes, you can still see the light, they think the apple is seen the same way and thus think they're a 5

but its not, its more like when you recall a dream, you didnt actually see the dream with your eyes, you saw it with your brain, and so the apple you imagine is only seen by your brain, not your eyes, just like a dream

im pretty sure everyone can see it like the latter and no one actually sees it like the former

>>102293461
I don't know about you, but for me dream visuals have the same kind of subjective experience as seeing things with my eyes.

>>102266777
I can see things in my head. Can literally close my eyes and visualize anything I think of in as much detail as I want.

>>102293546
my point is your eyes arent seeing anything but the back of your eyelids when you dream
your brain is creating the dream, the same way you create the apple

if you think tthat's not the case then you're just being a stubborn idiot

>>102293600
>and visualize anything I think of in as much detail as I want.
if you visualize the same thing again the details will be different

>>102293620
Dreams and imagination are very different. When you are asleep the eyes are disconnected and the visual regions process dream images as if you were really seeing them. When awake, the visual regions are in use processing the blackness behind your eyes.

Holy shit there are so many literal NPCs on /g/. Reading the copes is HILARIOUS. You are literally SUBHUMAN LMAO.

>>102293726
dreams are literally imaginations you fucking mongoloid

>>102293600
If you imagine a floating in front of a window does it block your vision and prevent you from seeing what's going on outside? If so that's pretty cool

>>102293845
*a floating object

>>102269442
yes
yes
yes
yes
I can also smell it.

>>102293600
>>102293845
adding to this, if you dont have sunglasses do you just imagine wearing sunglasses and then the sun doesnt bother you?

if your near-sighted do you just imagine wearing eyeglasses and then you can read shit from far away? thats pretty cool

>>102293889
i hope you're not actually this retarded

>>102293948
i hope you dont actually think you see shit thats not there with your actual eyes

>>102293834
Dreams are hallucinations

>>102293957
i don't and i think the anon who is asking is retarded for even asking
imagining with eyes open is just a projection

>>102293970
>what are lucid dreams

>>102293970
>>102293987
you must be awake to hallucinate
dreams are not hallucinations, they're dreams

>>102293982
>a projection
But does it actually block part of your vision or is it an abstract projection in your psyche

>>102269442
Yes
Maybe
Yes (kekked)
Yes, but not as strongly as I can "see it" and I can't imagine feeling it without also seeing it

>>102294009
To be more specific hallucination is a component of dreams. The visual component of dreaming is a hallucination. Its actually possible to have a dream without hallucinations. When I was a young child, for some reason my dreams lacked hallucinations, instead operating on the level of imagination only. Sometimes a partially collapsed dream can loose the hallucinations as well.

>>102267967
>inner voice
>not thinking in abstract terms while listening to inner music