>10 years ago 5TB HDDs were among the most popular consumer-grade storage hardware.>Today 5TB HDDs are among the most popular consumer-grade storage hardware.Shouldn't we have...like 500TB HDDs readily available for the average consumer at this point? Instead, i only see 12-20TB HDDs.Maybe 1 petabyte HDDs?AAA games are about 100gb these days, 4k movies are in the 20-50gb range, 5~12TB feels awfully little, as if storage tech has not advanced much.
>implying the free market is efficientlel
Lawls of physics are one hell of a bitch. The future will probably be mass SSD chips crammed into one board
>>102324162>implying we have a free market
>>102324162Free market capitalism means a free market in capital, the ability to allocate capital freely without regulation. Tell me when the last time that existed was.
>hddwho is using hddsgen4 nvme drives have improved every six months for four years, that's where your advancements are you're looking in the wrong place cause you're fucking retarded
>>102324294data hoarding is more important than ever, gotta have hard drives for that
>>102324196also this. most these drives are probably covered by all kind of cross licensed bullshit that makes it impossible to reasonably build competitive offerings, let alone any actual trade secrets.
this is the dumbest thread i've seen in a while>WAHH WHY AREN'T THERE BIGGER DRIVES WE SHOULD HAVE A DRIVE WITH A BAJILLION JIGAWATTS RIGHT GUYS? I SURE DO KNOW HOW DRIVES AND DRIVE INDUSTRY WORKS DUHHHH>YEAH TOTALLY UGH CAPITALISM>YEAH TOTALLY WE DON"T HAVE A FREE MARKET>YEAH THERE'S TOTALLY NO COPETITION>I JUST GANNA COMPLAIN INSTEAD OF LEARNING WHY THINGS ARE THE WAY THEY ARE>I WILL NOT CREATE A COMPETITIVE PRODUCT ON MY OWN>BUT I DEFINITELY THINK MAKING HARD DRIVES IS EASYthis entire board is super retarded. you're all retards
>>102324131Shouldn't we have 10ghz processors by now too? It's all slowed down in favor of making things for phones.
>>102324131>shouldn't we have...of course we should sweetie. i mean fuck the physics, tech limitations and whatnot. after all you want to have "x" so obviously it should exist to meet your demands.
>>102324131>consumer-grade
>>102324196>>102324243>REAL™ COMMU- FREE MARKETS HAVE NEVER BEEN TRIED BEFORE!You niggers can share a helicopter with the other ones.
>>102324131WDYM?It's never been cheaper for HDDs
>>102324294show me your 4TB nvme.take your time Sherlock
>>102324450painfully unfunny. dont give up the day job
>>102324131Areal density reached physical limits.Also content subscription model and the end of mass piracy.
>>102324294>muh nvmes>just restrict your storage medium to 2-3 drives max that are all limited by mobo and cpu pci versions and lane capacity>also lose SATA ports
>>102324131More people are slowly starting to realize you don't need spinning rust if you use AV1/AVIF. Sharing 40GB blu-ray muxes is cool and all but it's a bitch to share with others as well https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/101762605/P5 CRF 50, 408 kbpshttps://files.catbox.moe/2tyi6w.webm4k AVIF under 100KBhttps://files.catbox.moe/ycknht.avif
>>102324944>>102325140NTA but pic related
>>102324791>REAL™ COMMU- FREE MARKETS HAVE NEVER BEEN TRIED BEFORE!They haven't, but the closer we get to a free market, the better the standard of living. One example of many: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtschaftswunder
HDD are cheap, the problem are the stores price gouging after years of unsold stocks.
the 2.5" HDD market seems to have been relegated to bloated glued-together externalslaptops couldn't scam buyers with big and slow 1TB HHDs so now they scam with fast and small 128-256GB SSDs.
>>102325504Not all of us use H264/JPG like a bunch of turbo boomers. Also faster boot/load times trump and kind of advantage HDDs have over SSDs.
>>102324131Why isn't every care 5000HP by now? Because most processes aren't linearly scalable and because most people don't have a need for it anyway.HDDs are a dead end. Pure is shipping 150TB flash drives this year for enterprise storage.
>>102324131nearly forty years at computer, never accumulate more than 1TB data, few millenium era games, 0 4K movies, music still on mp3 not windows audio waweform
>>102324294>who is using hddspeople who want a cheap NAS
>>102325638>Pure is shipping 150TB flash drives this year for enterprise storageAt astronomical costHDDs will always be relevant because you don't need flash to store emails and youtube videos
>>102324960yes this thread is unfunny i agree, you stupid nigger
>>102325164I am curious, which settings do you use to encode to AV1/AVIF?I suppose you use ffmpeg?
>>102325533>boot/load timesGenerally speaking, the load time for accessing pictures, videos, documents, anything but the OS, games, and video files (as source files for video editing, not general playback) is such that there's little more than diminishing returns over a hard drive. Even an ancient 160GB SATA 3 drive I have kicking around can load any content like that just fine.
>>102324294>who is using hddsAnyone who doesn't want to lose their data.
>>1023258452tb ssd are $100 now. hdd are dead technology
>>1023261372TB SSDs were $60 a year or two ago, sheep.
>>102324791no, we had a free market in 1900 when public spending amounted to 2% of America's GDP, today it's about 50% of GDP
>>102324854>used$130 for 14TBAnon you could get 5TBs for $100 brand new a decade agoso what if the storage capacity went up a little (~3x is nothing) storage is lagging badlyeven SSDs have plummeted but HDDs haven't dropped almost at all
>>102324131Most consumers don't use HDDs anymore, SSDs are big enough for their use case.
>>102328229Your prices are completely incorrectToshiba's 5TB HDD was $300 when introduced in 2014You could catch a Seagate X20 on sale for $300 at some pointsIf it seems like HDD prices haven't fallen as much as you like, it's merely because HDD manufacturers are not catering to consumers anymore. High-capacity enterprise HDDs are prioritized and is what is mass manufactured. Low-capacity consumer HDDs are treated much like a specialty product as demand is so low and don't have a good of value.Those "used" HDDs that anon posted are literally the HDDs meant to replace most HDDs for consumer usecases. They are tested by WD/Seagate and have a warranty.
>>102326067CRF 30 seems to work well enough for both.
>>102328429No I'm not.I literally have 5TBs I paid $120 for in 2014. Shortly after 4TBs for $90 a piece.HDDs went down but not down enough, $15/TB is the good price now so the equivalent price for that would be $75 for a 4TB and $90 for a 5TB, however the difference between $/TB back in the previous decade until last decade was much faster.SSDs have dropped fast and still are dropping but HDDs are stagnant.Defend used HDDs all you want, but they're literally third party sellers and shouldn't be used as some "gotcha" when talking about prices of HDDs because used/refurbished shit is always going to be cheaper than NEW.>not catering to consumers anymore. High-capacity enterprise HDDs are prioritized and is what is mass manufactured. Low-capacity consumer HDDs are treated much like a specialty product as demand is so low and don't have a good of value.literally not even what I'm talking about8TB, 16TB, 24TB. The big ones. Regular price for them is still like $20/TB, off sale, you walk into a store on a Tuesday and you'll see roughly the same $/TB price as you did in 2014.THAT'S what we're talking about. It sucks.You know, previously, two decades ago 1TB was like $100 so 10 years after that prices fell to 1/5 of the previous $/TB, now it hasn't changed much in the last decade, and people like you come in with SPD prices for refurbs high on copium. Sorry bud some of us aren't zoomzooms and we actually remember HDD prices of the past.I'm wrong about nothing.You're just in denial.
>>102325214???4tb nvme are 200 dollars on amazon, hardly a luxury
>>102328705didn't mean to reply to you >>102325214was meant for the >>102324944 retard
GB/area scaling died years ago, that's why the prices aren't coming down that much. Only MEMS can save magnetic storage.
>>102324131When profit is the sole purpose of technology, don't think that the corporations will care about the users.They advance when they see it's profitable, and trust it or not, the true advancement in technology, is free for everyone, hence the lagging behind. Until you learn the true technology, you'll need to keep using whatever they give you.>>102324450>no, listen goy- I mean customer, the development of technology was.. I mean has slowed down because of what we say is tr.. because of outside circumstances that WE DON'T CONTROL, like climate change! and some technical details that you don't understand but you keep repeating it because you heard it in the media, you believe the media, don't you? Don't tell me you're some antisemitic conspiracy theorist, lol. You vill consume and you vill be happy.>deleted cookies, can't post pics.>https://files.catbox.moe/hj3xrt.jpg
>>102328700>I literally have 5TBs I paid $120 for in 2014Must have not got them retail>Sorry bud some of us aren't zoomzooms and we actually remember HDD prices of the past.I was in on that periodNo one was selling a 4TB much less 5TB for $120 in 2014I remember the fucking floods which saw one of the 1.5TB HDDs I bought before almost double in price from $50 to well over 100
>>10232485414tb are awful $$$/TB
>>102324196How would anything change if the market were more free?
>>1023282295TB ought to be enough for everyone.
i also noticed how HDDs are not evolving anymore and are still expensive and slow as fucka good 16TB HDD is like 400€, thats unaceptableinb4 someone links me some 3rd world refurbished 16TB drive for 99$
>>102324791>chickens lay eggs>WELL THE LAST TIME I TRIED RAISING CHICKENS THEY DIDNT LAY ANY EGGS>those are cows>THERE YOU GO AGAIN! ANY CHICKEN I TRY RAISING NEVER LAYS EGGS, AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS YOU JUST SAY THEY AREN'T CHICKENS>i could tell you that before you start raising them...>LOOK, IT HAS LEGS! CHICKENS HAVE LEGS!>there are similarities but they are fundamentally different>WELL IT DOESNT MATTER, I THINK THEY ARE CHICKENS AND WHEN THEY FAIL AGAIN I WILL REVEL IN THE SATIFACTION THAT YOU WERE WRONG
Hard drives are obsolete.
>>102328981>refurbishedahahahaha
Why do people here not like HDDs? On a home network they will totally max out your gigabit ethernet. My home built NAS is almost up and running. Going to have 18TB of Raid10 on tap. AND 16TB of other HDDs because why not, the fractal define 5 has so many drive bays. My question is, can I use the boot 1TB SSD as a cache? And have it write to the raid every night with a cron job? Not sure what I’m doing.
>>102328700>and people like you come in with SPD prices for refurbs high on copiumif you can prove they are super bad on the long term you might have a point
>>102329170Also these WD Red Plus are CMR but you can only find that on WD’s website. Why don’t they advertise that?
>>102329160Retard
>>102328827i'm not reading all that, loser
>>102329170>Why do people here not like HDDs?Most people are streamcattle.
>>102324131It's not lagging behind at all. Helium sealed, MAMR. HAMR, BPR were all predicted, developed, and became commercially available on schedule.
>>102324131they tried hard to reach to that point, now they're trying very hard with the next one (to see which one is the more profitable), I feel we're getting big CDs that can hold hundreds of TBs as the winner
>>102329484Sorry I forgot the spacing, and 3 words per line. Here you go, a better version for your retarded brain, and a subway surf video to watch in the background: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbVMiu4ubT0>no, listen goy- I mean customer, the development of > technology was.. I mean has > slowed down because > of what we > say is tr.. because of outside > circumstances that WE > DON'T CONTROL, like climate change! and some technical > details that you > don't understand but > you keep repeating > it because you > heard it in > the media, you believe the > media, don't you? Don't tell me > you're some antisemitic > conspiracy theorist, lol. You vill consume > and you vill > be happy.
>>102324791Yes you are correct. Real capitalism has never been tried (in the last 400 years) and probably never will be tried. Capitalism is currently impossible to achieve.
>>10232413110 years ago you would have paid 300$ for one, now you can get one for 150$
>>102324294>who is using hddsI am, because I'm a poorfag that can't afford a 16TB SSD drive.
>>102330208not reading this, bye
>>102324162>>102324791You cannot have free market Enterprise, laissez-faire Capitalism as long as governments exist.
>>102330752>we, the unified voice of naturally-anarchic humanity, unanimously declare that gubments don't exist anymore>the retarded kind of the bandits: lul, I declare myself the government nownice plan, numb-for-nuts
>>102330772read a book
>>102324131>consumer grade>5tbThe hell are you even looking at? I'm on pcpartpicker right now and the cheapest hard drive worth buying is a 14tb ironwolf pro. Nobody wants to buy 2.5" not-fit-for-laptop slop or E-grade 3.5" drives any more. That market is dead.
>>102324131>10 years ago 5TB HDDs were among the most popular consumer-grade storage hardware.No? Lol
>>102328229>you could get 5TBs for $100 brand new a decade agoThose were SMR. Nobody wants that shit. Also $100 a decade ago is about $190 today money going by M2.
>>102330772>the retarded kind of the bandits: lul, I declare myself the government nowthe bandit being the ones hitting it big in that "free market" and turning it to yet a not so "free" market again.I am fucking tired of this world, as long as humans are the way they are, no system we come up with will ever be perfect or good, unless we remove humans from ruling and decision making nothing is gonna change.
>>102324131>Today 5TB HDDs are among the most popular consumer-grade storage hardware.Says who? I've been all in on 16TB drive
>>102329060They're only $280 (252€) over here. Take it up with your shithole commie government.
>>102331227$370 USD for 16TB drives in Australia (includes 10% GST)
>>102324131They don't want you to have local files.
>>102331848It has never been easier to have local files.
>>102324131Because there is not enough consumer demand for high capacity storage for normalfags. Wait until the AI bubble bursts, maybe the situation will improve.
>>102324315Not for most consumers.
>>102329170yes bro you can, look up lvm-cache.I use this and its literal enlightenment. Poojeets still use single tier storage, while the chads replicate what has been true and good for computing since forever: caching hierarchy
>>102334501why the fuck would you want to be most consumerswhy the fuck are you here
>>102324131Why sell you one 500tb drive when they can keep selling you twenty 20tb drives for moreC'mon son you should know this grubby money game by now
>>102335077profit is the base necessity of lifecapitalism is meritocracygo back to venezuela if you like communism that much
>>102326137my nas has 8 12tb hdds at around 250 a piece (n300, new), how much would it cost me to replace them with this new technology of yours?
>>102335655IrReLeVaNt YoU dOn'T nEeD tHaT mUcH sToRaGe To BeGiN WiTh
>>102335655>96tb of storage with a 150MB/s maximum write speedastronomically retarded
>>102337320>hurr HDDs can only be accessed one at a timeAnon, you can access multiple drives at the same time and those drives in a RAID would read and write at 1GB/s+
>>102337369He's talking about network speed.
>>102336714go back
>>102337369lmao I forgot boomers invented raid to cope with slow speedsmy gen 5 nvme drives write at 12GB/s individually I wonder what they'd do in an array
>>102336714underage
>>102337398Yes, and?2.5Gb exists on every board now, 10G is cheap>>102337408The type of people building a decent capacity NAS already have a higher end PC with high speed NVMe drives.It's just not practical to fit loads of HDDs in a desktop you use for other things.
>>102337408>I wonder what they'd do in an arrayThe same thing that they do now: Getting throttled by the interface.
>>102331161Our only hope is unironically AI dictatorship.
HDDs are already so slow relative to their capacity to the point of being unusable.
>>102338507Speed quite literally increases in proportion to capacity.
>>102339424what
>>102339640>disk spins with stable rpm>if more data is on it, the bits must be smaller and closer>in one rotation, it will read more bytes
>>102324854>used HDD'sis that really a good idea
>>102339681Only if you really know what model it is and have the SMART data.You skip the infant mortality failures, so overall it can be a good deal.
>>102339424Um noI use HDDs but a legitimate issue that is occurring is the fact HDDs have similar speeds even going from 10TB to 20TBIt takes over a day to fully fill a modern high capacity HDD.>>102339681They are HDDs fully tested by WD and Seagate, more than a new drive since they actually scan them.Recertifed drives are what you are going to get anyway if you ever warrenty a new drive.For what you save you can buy two of them for what WD would want for a WD red of that capacity.
>>102324131i dunno if you're lucky you can find a guy dropshipping some HDDs if not you pay the extortion prices
>>102339726The smart data is wiped by WD/SeagateThey are really meant to be treated as new drives, they would be sold as new if they otherwise weren't deployed in the field already.
>>102339677it will fly over more bytes but it will not read more bytes
>>102339728>It takes over a day to fully fill a modern high capacity HDD.Wouldn't stop me.I usually overwrite my HDDs with random data when i replace them, and that was always a >1 day endeavor.I regularly check for high-capacity disks, but i never catch a good deal, A new >14TB is >300 bucks here. I can't justify that for data dump drives, that i need multiple offs for RAID or backup.
1. the technology seems to be in the late stages of optimisation2. since the platters are an effort to make and require somewhat skilled personal, there is little cost effectiveness to gain, much like a cm2 of silicone die will always remain expensive3. with the upcomming of flash drives the circle of customers has gotten alot smaller, in the past every computer was a desktop, and every desktop had a spinning disk, and that spinning disk could never have been big enough, there was a huge demand for better drives. but nowadays non-enterprise customers are better of with flash, and even most buisnesses are pleased with a couple hundred TBs, so better drives could potentially even mean less turnover in some buisness areas, since that will mean customers will just buy less
>>102337398>he doesn't have 100G NICsGet the fuck off my board you fucking tourists and kill yourself.
>>102340475B L O A T
>>102340291>non-enterprise customers are better of with flashCorrection: With the cloud.They simply never save anything.
>>102324315Just get more HDDs and put them in a raid. I've got 8 20 TB drives in raidz2
>>102340654you need serious mental help
>>102340668No u
>>102329152
>>102324294>>1023257902x16GB Seagate Exos X18 cost me 440CHF The cheapest SSDs of the same capacity would cost me 2800CHF.
>>102324944
>>102325140>using cucked gayming hardware
>>102324243Margaret Thatchers government 1979 to 1990The basis of her entire premiership was a llaissez-faire or freemarket economy
>>102325776based boomer.
I'm so sick of HDDs being expensiveThere is literally nothing justifying these prices
>>102340291You will live long enough to see 5.25 inch HDDs again.
>>102326137>>2tb ssd are $100 now.way overpriced last year was the time to buy themwhich I did
>>102324450i am silly
HDDs are memes, you should be running your os on blue-ray 4k quality.
>>102329152those are hard drives, are you dumb?
>>102324131>>102325164>12TB+ Harddrives>I wish you could just share files directly between computersThinly veiled pedo thread. Nobody needs it, aside from people who host illegal content. >I'm not a pedo I'm just a pirate/data archiveSure you are bro. post ratio and nas.
I wasted 3 days setting up my second nas and it's still only 24 tb. I got 4 6tb sas drives for a dollar each.And I can't even use it for animu cause it's a public drive
when are they coming out bros? im so tired of HDD price fixing and storage prices staying stagnant.
>>102329010Everything would be a fuckload cheaper
>>102329160>buy 5 of them>run them in raid 5>replace if one of them bricks>never lose anything>enjoy 56TB
>>102343508you would have to keep 125 TB of data on hdds before you burn one of these? how would that work?will it be write once read many?
>>102343621Why would that happen here? What mechanism would actually provide cheaper hard drives? What would actually force prices to fall?The number of drives being shipped has fallen dramatically in recent years as demand has fallen, as far as I can see, the current situation with regards to hard drive prices is just a consequence of a market functioning normally
optical discs are the cheapest storage medium.50 25GB discs for 20 dollars if you buy the smart buy onesif you buy a ssd drive that thing will die within a few years i owned a crucial ssd and the thing died within 2 years. it pissed me off because i wasted 120 dollars on it. i could have bought six 50 disc bd-r spindles with that and i would still have my datai am never buying ssd again
>>102344014It's really a question of the purpose of the storage I thinkSSDs are great for high throughput data required regularlyWhy anyone would use them for archival data is beyond me
>>102324944I bought (Pic Related) which is probably one of the cheapest 4 tb NVMe drives you can buy. It works great for what it is, I have it in a PCI to NVMe adapter because the two slots on my motherboard are occupied.
>>102324131Because r&d goes into ssds? At a certain point the drives are so large that their speed literally doesn't make sense. Imagine a petabyte harddrive. Even at 2000 iops if all of your files are <=10MB files then that's 100000000 files which would take 13 hours JUST ACCESSING THE FILES, not even transferring.
>>102344014>he didn't have a backupclown.
>>102324294Consumer platform nvme is so shit it's unreal.
>>102338507This anon is right.I was the SAN babysitter for several VMware clusters and their backups and I lived through rebuild times becoming a very serious liability.
>>102339728>HDDs have similar speeds even going from 10TB to 20TBBecause speed doesn't go up until areal density does. A 1 platter 10GB drive is roughly 4x faster than a 4 platter for sequential access.
>>102344974Blame hard drive manufacturers for forcing SMR technology
>>102344005Consumer, even Business Markets are different than "Capital/Manufacturer Markets." The act of research and making factories is messed up with bureaucratic BS.If you fuck up the laws, shit moves to China.
>>102345004SMR really isn't a thing for enterprise, atleast not in the form that consumers have gotten.Rebuilding on 20TB+ HDDs just take forever, rebuilds on lower capacity drives already took a hot minute and now those drives are 4-5x the capacity with mostly the same speeds and IOPs as those lower capacity drives.
>>102345082I thought SMR came out of the enterprise in the first place because it allows them to achieve higher density?Hard drive manufacturers don't really have an answer. Increasing capacity with the exact same speeds is all they can do. Hard drives have peaked, there is no getting better, it's just more of the same.This >>102324294 anon is right.
>>102345117What's the price/GB right now?
>>102345129Honestly I have no idea. There used to be a website that tracked that but I can't remember which right now.If I had to guess:>Nvme drives have gotten cheaper (especially the larger 4 TB drives, etc)>Hard drives have larger capacities but have stayed flatThat's me making a prediction without seeing any of the facts. Someone else can feel free to link to a real source instead of my ass.
>>102345129regular HDs are still like a factor of 10 cheaper, makes sense for the huge storage OP wants.
>>102326137that's not a lot of space zoomshit. I run my OS on SSD, but I put my serious data on HDD
>>102345117SMR was a way to use less platters in consumer drives.Most of the density increases has been with CMR drives.It's only been very recently that enterprise HDDs have been offering Host managed SMR drives. This is different than consumer SMR in that the drive works just like a CMR but the OS can define SMR zoning which will make parts of the disk SMR and gain extra capacity over what's in the label (pic related is 18TB CMR but 20TB with SMR zoning)It's better than what is on consumer drives as the OS can avoid doing random writes in an smr zone.
>>102344842i shouldn't have to spend 100s of dollars on backups
>>102345073>The act of research is messed up with bureaucratic BSThere are countless examples of industries with extremely strict compliance requirements that still manage to innovate, why is it different in this case? Hint: demand for HDDs is low and falling, and so businesses don't want to spend capital to ________ in this industry
>>102345224although i agree, you should always have a backup speacially for your irreplaceable files, dont be the clown who loses everything on hardware failure anon.
>>102340291Yes the S technological curveBut I don't think OP was talking about that I believe OP was talking about pricing even after a decade HDD haven't fallen much compared to last decade even from the pic 10 TB HDD back in 2015 cost similar even right now in 2024 after almost a decade and most economical HDD being 5TB even rate of progression for both tech and price of SSDs and NVMes has been better than HDD its that bad
>>102325164some of us don't watch easily compressible kids cartoons
>>102345457i never needed backups with optical discs
>>102345724The post you replied to explains what is going on with the pricing
>>102343508I can't wait for these to be $10,000 each and the readers to be $100,000
>>102345004It's not smr it's density outstripping iops. Your array can't even do its job of ensuring uptime when being one drive down tanks performance and there's no realistic way to rebuild off peak or it would take a month.
>>102343508>he fell for the yearly bullshit article about a disc/crystal/macguffin that "totally stores a thousand bajillion terabytes bro trust me"
>>102324162Not free market when there's collusion in NAND chip makers. They've been fined multiple times but they keep doing it again and again and again. The companies need to be broken up from their parent company since they keep on colluding.
How so?You can store a terabyte of data on something no bigger than your finger nail.
>>102348411>1tbThat's literally nothingSD cards & flash drives are also still notoriously unreliable.
>>102348408>Not free market when there's collusion in NAND chip makers.how is that not a free market
>>102348596Sherman Act makes it illegal when companies collude to not compete against each other and act in unison.
>>102348607>it's illegal so it's not a free marketare you reading what you're typing
>>102348614Free Market is defined when companies compete against each other in an open market. If the market is closed because companies choose collude with each other to fix prices, thats not free market. Thats closed market.
>>102348624>f the market is closed because companies choose collude with each other to fix prices, thats not free market.wrong. that is a free market.making that illegal is a regulated market."free market, an unregulated system of economic exchange, in which taxes, quality controls, quotas, tariffs, and other forms of centralized economic interventions by government either do not exist or are minimal. As the free market represents a benchmark that does not actually exist, modern societies can only approach or approximate this ideal of efficient resource allocation and can be described along a spectrum ranging from low to high amounts of regulation."
>>102348636>The free market is an economic system based on supply and demand with little or no government controlWhen the market isn't based on supply/demand but instead on collusion, its not free market.
>>102348649>as long as I use my own definitions then things are defined the way I want them to bewell I won't disagree there
>>102344014How much manual work does it take load an optical disk and take out the last x50
>>102348661Its the official definition. The free market represents a place for free place for competition between individuals. Your idea that collusion = free market goes against not just the principle of free market, but also legal definition of free market in not just US but also many other countries. Its illegal to collude and fix the market.
>>102348691no, you're misunderstanding the meaning. free market means unregulated. as in otherwise competing companies working together is not illegalyou're confusing the meaning with the fact that even the most "free" markets in our world do have some manner of regulation, like making collusion illegal.
>>102348712There are unspoken rules in free market that people abide by. Not cheating in transactions in the biggest. When you collude to fix prices, its goes agaisnt the principle of voluntary transactions and becomes co-erced/manipulated and fraud. These violations are enforced at scale by society. You're confusing unregulated with no rules. Thats never been the case. The principle of free exchange relies upon various unspoke rules of fairness. Such that price fixing and voluntary is seen as critical. These are further enshrined by the government as means to ensure free market thrives via honest means.
>>102348743>These violations are enforced at scale by society.sure, that could be a natural force in a free market.>These are further enshrined by the government as means to ensure free market thrives via honest means.yes, regulation could be used in an attempt to prevent an *even less free market* from emerging. that doesn't change the fact that such regulation itself is not a property of free markets
>>102348765No, its just unspoken principle made official without such it doesn't work out. Like in other aspects of virtues enshrined by our constitutions. Where we give people many rights except the right to deny other's rights. Basic local minima necessary to support and expand the virtues is part of the package of free market. Thats why most definition dont just say "unregulated" but rather "unregulated/with minimal regulation".
>>102324131>Instead, i only see 12-20TB HDDs.Where? I can only see 2-4TB harddrives in shops.
>>102324294You deserve what's coming.
>>102348804Your shops are outdated by 5 years. No one reasonably buys anythign less than 5TB. 5TB sits where 1TB sits from 5 years ago. And its only ~$50-60 for 5TB.
>>102348796>Basic local minima necessary to support and expand the virtues is part of the package of free market.an opinion, and not an unpopular one. still an opinion. and still not free markets by definition, just an opinion on how to achieve the most free market that can be achieved.>Thats why most definition dont just say "unregulated" but rather "unregulated/with minimal regulation".only when referring to the markets that actually exist in reality.
>>102348817I literally paid $140 for an external WD 5TB last month. It's the biggest I can find with small form factor. They also have a mini-cpu sized harddrive cases or whatever it is which can hold bigger harddrives but they are also expensive.
>>102324791anytime it has been tried it always results in a power filling the power vacuum, ending it. The free market is a self-destructing ideal, just like most good things. The closest we got to a long term free market was a "free" market with guaranteed property rights and certain monopolies by the government (the lasseiz faire model seen in various European countries and America), but that didn't really last long, ending after WW1 and the Great Depression.
>>102345117Anything that loses speed after it is half full, isn't an option for enterprises.Both modern consumer SSDs and SMR HDDs do that.
>>102348833You got conned. $140 price range is where 12-14TB price range sits.
>>102348837 (Me)in a non-real sense, the tech boom introduced various new and unregulated markets the last half century, biggest being the internet, that serve as a recent example of the self-destructing nature of free markets. Every one of those markets eventually centralized around great commercial empires, rather than remain free and diverse, without too significant government intervention.
>>102348840https://www.walmart.com/ip/WD-Easystore-WDBKUZ0050BBK-Hard-drive-5-TB-external-portable-USB-3-0-black/617118794Shieeeeet! They have increased the price. Now it's $189.
>>102348869https://www.amazon.com//dp/B09S9JCSNK$100. 12TB gaming drive
>>102348912Very interesting! Thanks.
>>102348912whaddafuk is a gaming drive
>>102344014If only they would be larger.If i split videos and music from the rest of my data, i can go down to 130 GB.That's the minimum i would need for a comfy backup that i could quickly restore from.Splitting into chunks is very uncomfy. I could backup single large folders per disk. But that would now be the opposite and throw away lots of available space. Like my projects folder for software development is 17 GB, the folder for 4chan memes is 14 GB.
>>102348912>used chink drives with SMART data wipedWhat could go wrong?
>>102343307That's such an arbitrary conclusion to jump to that I have to imagine this is a joke made just to get attention.Hope you feel better.
>>102343307no NAS, just two 6TB drives on my PCnow, can you give cheap drives so I can download more shit?
>>102349104>>102348912I was wondering how this is possible.
>>102344014>man buys dogshit ssd and performs zero backups>turns into schizophrenic that saves everything to read only media many such cases willing to bet he still only has one copy of everything
>>102325164had a situation like this a while ago. payfag buddy wants to watch some shows not available on his streaming service. I tell him how to torrent and where to find his shows, but he's scared of "getting caught" or catching a virus so he refuses to download it himself.because we wanted to watch the show together anyways he searched for some solution of me streaming it to him but those all don't work very well, or cost money, or take a lot of effort to set up yourself. ended up just bringing the files over to him with a stick and using syncplay to watch it together.
>>102325164If i want compression artifacts and 4k that looks like it is 420p, i watch youtube, you stupid shill
>>102349782Supply/Demand
>>102349970>here let me introduce you to the way boomers pirated thingsI can't fathom why people still use torrents in 2025 when we've gone through generations of better ways to pirate
>>102343508Anon, they allow you to buy any storage just because the audience isn't ready for thin clients and streaming services. But the war for disks is over it was over when all you bought was a steam key with steam installer on the disk.
>>102350006youtube isn't av1 encoded Retard.
>>102325448>american government pumping a shit-ton of money into rebuilding europe counts as a win for the free market
>>102350006>>102349970>>102345765>>102343307>>102326067You're replying to Daiz who is behind every AVIF shill post. He's a world famous shill and because he shills so much, he became schizophrenic.His sock puppets are pixdaiz and fixlives.If you shill for AVIF, then you're a retarded newfag who were groomed by Daiz and you should therefore not get mad when someone calls you Daiz.He stopped using his trip code after someone looked into an archive and discovered that he's behind every AVIF shill post, something that he genuinely didn't expect anyone to do because 4chan is full of newfags who don't know what an archive is or can't do any research.Expect lots of samefagging from the narcissist.Also, he's probably not getting paid by Google.Before he got called out:https://desuarchive.org/_/search/text/avif/end/2024-02-24/Getting called out:https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/99167108Aftermath:https://desuarchive.org/_/search/text/avif/start/2024-02-25/The reason he responds so quickly is because he uses a bot to notify him and ChatGPT or something similar to automatically spam threads. There are posts on /a/ posted well over a decade ago mentioning how creepy he is:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20PwaJYcnukhttps://desuarchive.org/_/search/text/daiz%20summoning/order/asc/
Fuck HDD noise, HDD grindingFuck having a nice build that's just dragged down by this slow, bulky and noisy piece of trash
>>102351066Anon, I bought an $80 PC case and even it has a tray for HDD with rubber spacers
>>102351444Mine is on the /pcbg/ sticky as a recommendation and it doesn't.It does include spacers for 2.5'' drives, that's it. I don't think I'll switch to a 2.5'' HDD anytime soon.
>>102324131polishing a platter to get something that yields millisecond latency storage vs polishing wafers that yield microsecond latency storage at a much higher density. sorry, there is no competition here. fuck HDDs.
>>102350388The 4k youtube videos that look like they are 420p, are indeed AV1 encoded.
>>102351852How much did you pay for your 16 TB of SSD?
>>102324944Micron has been selling 4TB NVMes for some time
>>102351895fucking nobody needs 16 TB hard drives. if you need to store that much data, you go tape you fucking moron.
>>102348408>Not free market when there's collusion in NAND chip makersfree market means everyone can do what they want without regulationsif they want to collude and monopolize and embezzle and defraud and dump toxic waste everywhere that's their right.
>>102351968How much is a tape reader again?
>>102351993maybe read the reply next chain before opining your retarded faggot opinion.
>>102352005a lot. but I thought you wanted to store a lot of data?
>>102352057I read it but all I saw was you being wrong over and over
>>102352005You can't even use modern tape drives without building a clean room for them. It's a pretty serious infrastructure investment. Like middle 6 figs minimum.
>>102351066>dragged downDo gaymers think it's 2001 where their storage bus is dictated by the slowest drive in the chain?
>>102324854>>102324131this reminds me... I've had good experiences with refurbished SSDs. can one buy the high capacity ones for cheap? if so, how cheap?
>>102352416A good year ago, you could swipe older U.2 SSDs either new or used for cheaper than the lowest end consumer M.2 or SATAThey otherwise don't really refurb SSDs like they do with HDDs
>>102352646if by refurbishing you mean putting zeros on the device then I'll rather take that BBC up the ass than to buy that shit
>>102352684by refurb I mean used ones.I assume high capacity used SSDs are way better than used ("refurbished") HDDs. HDDs are a literal russian roulette. even new HDDs are... SSDs OTOH have improved with time.
>>102352738SSD wear out the same. you can't beat physics.
>>102352738Refurb for HDDs also mean used.Pretty much all the big HDDs "refurbishers" that aren't WD or Seagate themselves don't do anything to the drive but write and scan them, they don't usually wipe SMART data. They otherwise don't have the means to open these drives being completely sealed."Recertifed" HDDs by WD or Seagate may have been reworked by the manufacturers themselves and had smart data reset as your supposed to treat them like new drives.
>>102350148What better ways? Usenet?
>>102350148Such as?
If I get multiple 5+TB hdds in my pc, can I connect them somehow to increase speed? I don't want to wait an eternity just for thumbnails for load.
>>102353270yes
>>102353270that's RAID 0
>>102353310Is that the shit that deletes everything when just one one of them dies?
>>102353446not a problem if you back up your data
>>102353515what's backup?
>>102353562icloud
>>102353679sorry, retard here. what's icloud?
Movies encoded with CRF 40 AV1 look pretty okay and only take up a few GBs. I don't really have that much of an urgent need for more than a 500GB SSD + couple of 128GB flash drives desu senpai. I feel like it makes backing up stuff easier/safer to because flash drive #2 gets documents, flash drive #3 gets music, and so on and so on.
>>102324791Actually real free markets are always tried. it's just greedy jews or assholes come in trying to control it so everyone else cant get valuable shit. they always want to hoard it.
>>10232413110 years ago 5TB hdd was no where near the norm never mind the most popular. Wtf are you smoking retard.
