>generates electricity by running steam through turbinesWhy the fuck? Why don't they just extract the energy directly rather than use literal 300 year old technology?
>>102393905sir that's real retarded sir.
>extract the energy directlywhy yes, let me just get out my old God Console and write a script that will re-assign the pointers of all the energy scopes within this region to be pointed to my device instead of the Brownian motion dispersal queue they were previously allocated to
>>102393931Just extract the heat from it directly >>102393925kys jeet
The real question is why they don't reuse the heat to generate electricity too.
>>102393939How would you extract electricity from the heat, sir?
>>102393939directly? as in directionally? then I choose the direction perpendicular to my turbine blade
>>102393939>is such a newfag zoomer that zoom zoom doesn't remember the george zimmerman triali need to leave this shit hole
>>102393954Well, it's simple really. Instead of wasting all that energy turning water into steam just to spin turbines, we could directly harness the thermal energy using some kind of advanced material that converts heat into electricity—like a massive thermoelectric converter, but scaled up to an industrial level. Think of it as tapping directly into the chaotic motion of the particles from the heat source and channeling that into electric current, bypassing all the mechanical nonsense.>>102393967Exactly! You’re catching on. The idea is to orient the energy collection perpendicular to the heat gradient, or maybe even at an angle to maximize the capture of heat energy. The turbine blades? Obsolete! Instead, we redirect that energy flow straight into some kind of hyper-efficient converter that grabs all that thermal energy and pushes it right into the grid. No more converting heat to motion first—it’s direct energy capture.
>>102393972who the hell actually watched the zimmerman trials?>omg, this is like totally this generations OJ Simpsons trials, omg, everyone's watching>verdict happens>no one cares>this surprises no one but news addicts
There actually is a reactor deisgn that generates electricity directly from fusion without putting a steam engine in the middle its called helios or something
>>102393905We don't have a better way or harnessing the energy at this scale
the simplest and most efficient way to harness kinetic energy is through a linear pipe/rail/whatever. but since in order to do that for a arbitrarily large amount of energy requires an arbitrarily long line and it should be obvious why that work, instead you accept the inefficiencies by diverting that line into a circle that can feed back into it and continue harnessing energy forever. it's really not that complicatedwhy is steam the medium and not something else? well, despite the "crazy water monkeys" meme, the truth is it actually is something else most of the time.
>>102393991the amount of energy generated by turbines is much largeryoure not a genius
>>102394068because thermodynamics hasn't been patched or updated yet, we're still on 1.0 and probably will be foreversteam trains are no longer the pinnacle of locomotion, so that's something
>>102393991heat is kinetic energy, go back to school retarded zoomer
>>102393991>some kind of advanced material that converts heat into electricity—like a massive thermoelectric converteryeah, it's called water
>>102393939>Just extract the heat from it directlyIronically, direct thermal capture, like used in RTGs, is not as efficient as boiling water and using that steam to drive a turbine.It also degrades faster.
>>102394068>why is steam the mediumit's abundantit's non-toxicit's about as cheap as you can getit has a massive specific heat capacity for what it iswhat substance better than regular water?
>>102394176ironically, boiling the water and letting it move is direct energy capture
>>102393998great, now all that's left is to make a design for fusion that actually works
>>102393905>forced to shut down because waste heat will boil the fishes living in the river or lake they use for cooling waterwind and photovoltics do not have this problem.
>>102393991>Why don't we use something that's not invented, yet?Most likely because it's not invented, yet.
>>102394254>forced to shut down because angry cloud flew over my house
>>102393991>some kind of advanced material that converts heat into electricityyoure retarded and cant even google stuffstill, why would we use anything that convoluted if by Faraday's law, movement of a magnetic field generates electric current
>>102394181France had to shut down their nuclear reactors and import electricity from Germany of all places because they were running out of water.
>>102394307country living near an ocean running out of water is funniest thing I ever readThey have so many power plants they could pump out entire world's ocean in a century
>>102393905because nuclear fission reactors == steam punk
>>102394326You can't use sea water, that will fuck up the reactor with time.
>>102394357france sells most of its power to foreign countries, that power could be invested into desalination, France having water shortages is unironic non-white subhumn problem. The salt you get is free by the way.
>>102394374Nuclear plants need a retarded amount of water.And desalination needs a retarded amount of power.The reactor wouldn't be able to produce power for anything else anymore.
>>102394357of course you can, that's why most of nuclear power plants are near the sea
>>102394398build more reactors specifically for water generation, think about future nigger, nobody else uses nuclear power anyway, the one to do it first will be the superpower in new world order
>>102394357you need three loops then, first with pressurized reactor coolent, one with fresh water to run the turbines and another with salt water to cool the fresh water loop.
>>102394417Nope. Even nuclear subs literally submerged in sea water don't let any sea water inside the reactor and use a closed loop of purified water instead.
>>102394419Nuclear plants already struggle to pay back the construction cost. If you can't even sell most of the power and have to use it for water instead then you're just going to lose a lot of money on it.
>>102393905ALL power is turbines. Hydroelectric is water moving turbines. Coal is water moving turbines. Nuclear is water moving turbines. Reflected solar arrays are water moving turbines. When we get meaningful fusion power, it will be water moving turbines. Wind is just air moving a turbine. The only grid-scale power generation that doesn't use a turbine is photovoltaic solar
>>102394464>The only grid-scale power generation that doesn't use a turbine is photovoltaic solarAnd it's shit
>>102394433yes you don't use sea water for actual reactor but you use sea water to cool the whole nuclear power plantjust take a look where the nuclear plants are usually built
>>102394505>seawaterEnjoy corroding everything it comes in contact with
>>102394446so do taxes, build more reactors faggot
>>102394523Why? What's the point of building reactors that use all the power for themselves?
>>102394535uhh yeah nigger, all the drinkable water is actually wasted..
>>102394550That water is used by the plants too.
>>102394567and? it doesn't disappear anywhere, only cooling towers lose some
>>102394607Then you cycle around heated water from the plants, which gets too warm to be used for effective cooling.
>>102394639that's where seawater comes in that doesn't need to be desalinated, retard>hurr muh cooling tower corrosiondon't care, maintain it, important parts are safe, the only downside is high concentration of salt in sea near the plant, but that's also easily solvable if you're white
>>102393905How do you convert heat directly into usable electrical energy? Honest question. Thermocouples aren't that good.
>>102394663>shut down the plants for expensive repairs all the timeYeah, that's a great solution.Nuclear power is already extremely expensive.
>>102394687maybe the politicians can live modestly instead of buying yachts and then nuclear power plants being expensive on commoner's dime won't be a problem
>>102394696>bawww why don't politicians throw away even more billions for no good reasonAre you for real?
>>102394254At least people are starting to wake the fuck up on the problems of nuclear. Thank you for this post.
>>102393905How come they let precious water escape as vapor instead of capturing it? ?If submarines can do a closed loop why can't NPPs?
>>102394723>no reasonsorry for assuming that you are white just like myself, for a moment I thought that we could find common ground in a necessary part of life being worth paying for with taxes no matter how much it costs, but I guess private jets are more important
>>102394512don't be retardedwhy do you think almost all Chinese plants are built near the sea?
>>102394730because the heat energy produced from the chemical energy -> kinetic energy -> electrical energy process is waste, and other than something like small-scale local heating district heating systems, there's no benefit to be gained by doing so.
>>102394663you don't need cooling tower if you have access to the sea
>>102394753you do if you're white and care about not destroying local ecosystems, letting some water evaporate and releasing hypersaline water back into sea does a lot of harm, it should be one way street from sea to evaporation, salt should be used somewhere
>>102393905The number of people who think a nuclear plant is akin to a pair of giant jumper cables attached to a massive nuclear material obelisk or otherwise somehow directly converts radiation to electricity with no intermediary stage is genuinely staggering.
>>102394768wtf are you talking about?why would water by hypersaline?nuclear plants built near the sea don't need cooling towers, it's the same also in the westhow difficult it to understand? you take seawater and use it to cool steam that is running turbines in a separate loopseawater don't get contaminated in the process
>>102394683chemical energy (natural gas)burn the gas (heat energy)heat energy boils waterwater turns into steamsteam expands & turns a turbine (kinetic energy)turbine generates usable electricity.
>>102393991>we could directly harness the thermal energy using some kind of advanced material that converts heat into electricity—like a massive thermoelectric converterThose exist and are used on space crafts.Very reliable, compact and light, but less efficient than a steam turbine.Steam turbines are very efficient, something like 85% of what the 2nd law of thermodynamics allows.
>>102394788nuclear power plant seawater is at least x3 more saline than seawater, it's bad for any lifeform not adjusted to this
>>102394254>>forced to shut down because waste heat will boil the fishes living in the river or lake they use for cooling waterNope. They don't use stagnant ponds for cooling.
>>102394773that's because the talking heads on social media say it's the FUTURE, therefore things should be different because flying cars and a AI robit. Iphone
>>102394790That isn't thermoelectric like OP is implying exists.
>>102394812but there are regulations on thermal waste and it affects ecosystems anyway, whitest solution is to evaporate seawater and dispose of salt like not a nigger
>>102394819i realised that after posting. still, that's largely how the grid-scale power generation process works, jsut change in different ways of producing the heat (gas, coal, ATOMS) or skipping straight to kinetic energy (wind, tidal, hydro)
>>102394730Subs have tiny reactors that produce a tiny amount of power and aren't economically viable.Their purpose is not to produce a lot of power for cheap to sell it, but to run a healthily funded military vessel.
>>102394751In France's case they need to conserve water so surely it would make sense to have some method to collect the steam and return it to the starting water source? I mean there are geothermal power plants so it can be done.
Morning /g/. Here's a dashboard, correct as of about ten minutes ago.
>>102394835France's problem was that the heatwaves heated up the water in the rivers too much to be used for cooling.
>>102394834the same should be done with electricity, electricity and water should be "free" to taxpayers, taxpayers money should fund vital infrastructure>inb4 paying taxes is communismrather communism than straight up theft as is done now
>>102393905Everything is energy.
>>102394844what a load of shit, if it's water and not steam it can be used for cooling
>>102394867Oh yeah then what about dark matter and quantum mechanics smart guy
this is the kind of thread I'd expect from schizophrenic (the cringe type of schizophrenia) redneck boomers on /pol/
>>102394946think about it, anon. if the water is relatively warm already, it's useless. like trying to dry yourself with a wet towel.
>>102394946Nope.The generator efficiency is higher the higher the temperature differences are. Cooler water -> more efficient power generation. Warmer water -> less efficient power generation.Additionally you can't run the nuclear power plant at full capacity when the water is too warm and the condenser pressure would exceed design limits.
>>102394805wtf? what is "nuclear power plant seawater"?pic related is French nuclear power plant built near the sea, where are the cooling towers?
>>102394464>meaningful fusion powerThat'll likely be the proton-boron reaction. Unlike the deuterium-tritium reaction, which releases most of its energy as fast neutrons, proton-boron fusion produces alpha particles. And moving charged particles is literally electricity.
>>102394995I worked out in 93% humidity yesterday in the evening, I could see the mist everywhere, my sweating was less efficient but if it didn't work I would be dead now because I jog for 2 hours straight.>>102395015french aren't white so of course they pollute
>>102395007and turning it off drops efficiency to 0
>>102395015That looks massive - how many people would be working there?
>>102395015The plant in the picture has never been in full operation and is a huge money pit with countless delays and is 5 times over budget already.
>>102394826There are regulations, yes. So what you do is pump water through quickly so it doesn't heat up very much.
>>102395015They pump in sea water, pump it through the cooling heat exchanger and pump it back out 2~3 degrees above what they pumped in.
>>102395089doesn't matter, few degree increase is enough, why do you think communal hot water has chemicals in it? It would be a bioweapon otherwise just because it's warm.
>>102395112exactlybut one schizo claims it's impossible or causes huge amount of "pollution"oh no, seawater will be 1-2 degrees warmer! all the fish will be boiled away
>>102395015Reminded me of Russian floating nuclear power plant.
>>102393998Because Fusion generation plasma and that's a lot closer to electricity than a hot bundle of rods.
>>102394512All reactors have on site desalination. They have a lot of energy.You don't cool a reactor directly with sea water unless everything's gone tits up and you're flooding containment like Fukushima.
just build a whole bunch of microwave power plants in the corner of the map until you unlock Fusion in 2050. not difficult>>102395169i don't think you know very much about marine ecology
>>102393952entropy
>>102394842...and an update, a few hours later.
>>102395217what the operators of nuclear power plants don't know?please enlighten use
>>102393905>why don't they just capture the energy of lightning boltsThe atmosphere generates infinite power for free and humans refuse to utilize it, can you believe it?
I want nuclear, district heating. Hook us right up to the cooling loop.For those of us too far from the plant, let's take some of that hot-decaying radioactive waste, bury it a few tens of metres underground, and treat it like bonus-geothermal.
>>102393905>Can't get into heat engines, let alone thermodynamics
>>102394144no it's not
>>102393991are you a flat earther by any chance..?
>>102394949>dark matter and quantum mechanicsyou mean meme physics?
>>102394867I can suggest an equation that has the potential to impact the future.
>>102393905Where's the CO2 tanks holding over a 1000t of gas?
>>102393954Peltier effect
>>102393905>>102393991Is it pseud day on /g/ today? Trick question, that's every day. Hey OP, maybe finish undergrad before you start pitching your genius ideas.>what about muh piezoelectric superconductor!?Smarter people than you already tried this.
>>102399150If you know what that term means then you probably also know why it isn't used.
>>102399229ywnbaw
so that if it explodes, it explodes beautifully
>>102399253I do, but people claiming it's impossible to harvest electricity directly from thermal differentials are brainlets.
>>102396499Temperature is directly related to the kinetic energy (velocity) of the molecules. Its what you are measuring with a thermometer. Is why pressure rises in a closed container of gas when you raise the temperature.
>>102395169Why don't they use the remaining heat to heat hot houses or preheat water for hot water tanks?
>>102399696perhaps in that sense, but thermal energy (thing hot/cold!!) and kinetic energy (thing move!!) are different concepts in the context of power generation, where you make thing hot to make other thing move
>>102399723because of stupid regulations that don't allow nuclear power plants to be built near the citiesbut there are some projects where the cooling water is to be used for heating
>>102395630>not energy independent>90% of your nuclear power output set to close by 2028Is your nation even trying?
>>102393931Kek
>>102399150Those things can only suck dick
>>102394795This. Thermoelectric is only ~10% efficient. There's also thermophotovoltaic generation, but that's still an emerging technology and only ~40% efficient.
>>102394254>wind>forced to shut down because a bird flew into it
how viable is home scale wind -> compressed air?
>>102399963Most cities/municipalities don't have the spare water to handle localized power generation in general. It is not just nuclear plants (BWR/PWR) that have this problem.
>>102393905it works.you arent a scientist or engineer who knows anything about this so let it be
>>102394795Thanks for answering OP's stuff with a good answer. Actually learned something.
>>102393905not tech, off topiconce you get past 3rd grade they'll teach you these kind of thingsuntil then stay the fuck off 4chan you child
>>102393905Nobody here knows how to look stuff up. This technology actually exists and is in use in spacecraft. Russia actually has a bunch of these Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators (RTGs), mostly in remote locations. The problem is you need to have a lump of something hot and very radioactive to produce a meaningful amount of electricity. the russian ones used strontium 90 and were engineered to last about 10 years. the ones we put in space use plutonium which lasts 80 years.
>>102401623RTGs are not efficient either. They only make sense if you need low-power output that will slowly diminish for long periods of time.
>>102393991>just use unobtanium bro
>>102393993trying too hard zoomie
>>102393931>reality is... LE COMPUTATIONi hate computers so much it's unreal
practical magnetohydrodynamic converters don't exist
>>102399877Holy shit did you even complete high school? This level of knowledge is middle school at most
Converting heat directly to electric energy is not possible, you could use Peltier effect but it's about the difference of heat insteadHeat is too entropic to be useful without some middleman like a piston expanding or a turbine movingYou can't turn "@¥@*×*(29#€#,××*×*£@£@*iwijsjkswiissjsjkskw9qp*#**" into text, unless you grab that mess and shape it like letters
>>102394307So if they ran out of water despite having literal oceans of it, what do you think would happen much sooner if they used a less abundant liquid?
>>102393991>tapping directly into the chaotic motion of the particles from the heat source and channeling that into electric currentAnd how do you reorder molecules without consuming energy dumbass, by letting them freely move into a container
>>102401975what's the most viable method of harvesting energy from hot sibling sex?
>>102402036Pregnancy
>>102401975Why don't they make a real life maxwell's engine then
Even if OP wasn't fucking retarded, how would you convert the extracted energy into high voltage AC?
>>102399696>is directly relatedholy goalpost movingi'm not good at physics but i'm fairly certain potential energy is also directly related to it
>>102402060Pretty much, even a maxwell engine would be more viable, as it's just about separating molecules compared to make them somehow be ordered enough for electric current
>>102402062Probably the same way photovoltaics do it? I think they make DC. Everything else I can think of uses turbines so it'll make AC directly.
>>102402205NTA but photovoltaic converts low entropy energy (light waves) into DCLight is like aAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAa, heat is like 929kako1o9@¥(×*+89!NIGGER9QQKKAK
>>102394258it is invented, but kinda sucks. thermoelectric generators have an efficiency of maybe 8% tops and steam is a bit over 50%
>>102402205Inverter technology is not there yet. We would need GaN or SiC inverters to have about 500x more W/mm2 to make it work.
/sci/ tier thread desu
>>102401026I'm talking about cities where district heating is used, hooking that to nuclear power plant wouldn't require extra water
Atoms are made of energy right? Why don't scientists just take random objects and convert them into raw energy to use? Are they stupid?
geothermal energy already exists dumbass
>>102393905>Why the fuck? Why don't they just extract the energy directly rather than use literal 300 year old technology?Look up Nikola Tesla v. The Galactic Council of Nelbo where the Honorable Supreme Court of Sector D-93689 upheld the Second Law of Thermodynamics as enshrined in the Universal Simulation Charter. What part of "Shall not be infringed" do you not understand you pink skinned meatsacks?
>thing bad because it's oldWhen are they going to replace wheels with something else like triangles
>>102393905Why do germanic people hate those?
>>102402834Because they want no Jew magic near them.
>>102393954Take an Air Conditioner and run it in reverse like you would with a DC motor, turning it into a Dynamo that takes in hot air, extracts the energy in the form of electricity, then blows out the cool air.
>>102403190How would you move air?
>>102393939You can't use heat energy like that. God I wish CS people had to take actual physics classes.
Converting thermal energy to electrical energy is a non-trivial task
>>102393991>why convert the thermal energy @ 40% efficiency when we could convert it @ 12% efficiency for 10x the price?!?Zoom zooms were a mistake.
>>102394773The Simpsons is the #1 reason why people think nuclear energy is dangerous.
>>102394307They didn't run out of water, they're just lazy frogs that couldn't be bothered to install a larger pipe
>>102401301https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/moon-mars/a43700416/stirling-power-converter-china/CHYNA is using them.
>>102394398Desalination can be powered from low grade waste heat, you are clearly brown, kindly fuck off
>>102393931>Brownian motion dispersal queue
>>102394500>And it's shitWe've driven the cost so low it doesn't matter that it's shit
>>102393931>Brownian motionlol diarrhea*pfffhfhfhsshhfshsssshhhrhrrrrttt*cha-cha-cha!! haha :D
>>102394512>building things that need to last 30+ years out of materials that can't be exposed to water, air, or saltShoo shoo goblin
>>102394742Because that's where the population is?
>>102393905>Mining fuelsWhy don't they just pay some guys to push the turbine directly, rather than use literal millennia old technology
>>102394805>3xFucking nothing. Total area effected is meaningless. You are brown. Kindly kill yourself. Thx
>>102401899>i hate computers so much it's unrealwhy are you on /g/ay then? go outside look at the sky or read a book
>>102404455HahahaA humorous post, friend. ;D
>>102404671because i'm a terminally online fa/g/got
>>102399253'Peltier effect' isn't a 'term' retard. Kill yourself, unironically
>>102404716there's your problem, find a solution to that
>>102393905electromagnetic induction is the most efficient way compared to any other method like photovoltaic, thermoelectric or piezoelectricFusion reactors will spin a turbine and extract energy using electromagnetic induction like hydro and nuclear reactors
>>102393905Thermoelectric converters are not easily scalable and aren't as efficient at converting energy compared to steam turbines.For example RTGs do this but they're a more specific usecase where lifetime is the most important thing.
>>102402750Wheels have no sides, we should replace them in something with infinite sides!
mmm hot rock
>>102404236Doing it with half-decent efficiency is a royal PITA.
>>102393905Because the smart people who actually designed and built these things ran the numbers and found that literal 300 year old technology was the best solutionDo you not know how engineering works? This shit isn't arbitrary. If you have a better idea you're welcome to build something, though I kinda get the feeling your input won't be required at any level of the engineering process.
>>102393905our only 'energy' is electricity. our ideas about electricity emerged from Maxwell and his formulas about electromagnetism. all electricity requires magnets to generate. turbines move magnets around really fast.
>>102403478Magnets
>>102393905>Containment buildingno use case
>>102393991I thought you were baiting holy shit man life's gotta be hard with a sub 2 digit IQ
>>102407354it's to keep the chinks out. Or to keep the nuclear radiation in. I don't know. I'm not legally required to look it up.
>>102393905why do I see a soijak in this picture
>>102407540because you have terminal brainrot and what's worse, it's the lame anti-humor kind
>>102405967>If you have a better idea you're welcome to build something, though I kinda get the feeling your input won't be required at any level of the engineering process.That doesn't really make sense anon.
>>102393905>Why don't they just extract the energy directlyReal life is not like Star Trek. Then again, maybe we will have the tech to do that by 2400.
>>>102407540>because you have terminal brainrot and what's worse, it's the lame anti-humor kind
>>102393931top kek
>>102394742because all their cities are also built near the Sea?
