>>102415759
https://youtu.be/jIrMG10vge0?t=351
BASED

>>102415759
I don't use a single Electron app. They're all garbage.

Desktop Linux attracts neurodivergent people who are prone to whining about everything.

>>102415770
you use steam which is just web app

>>102415767
Good lord, this guy is practically everything wrong with the modern world.

>>102415779
I don't use Steam.

>>102415759
there are two types of anons, those who will endlessly theorize about the best and most efficient way to write a program (in rust), and those who finish it in one weekend in electron

>>102415767
>hurr durr the apps wouldnt exist
good, no one needs discord botnet app, world would be better without your shitty and useless electron apps that waste your time and energy

>>102415811
without discord you literally cannot exist in the modern world properly

>>102415836
your discord channel is literally everything except real world, touch grass

Webapps are based but they should just run in your browser.
Bundling them all with their own chromium build is some real flatpak doofus shit.

>>102415759
wtf is an 'app'?

>>102415913
It's short for application, like Lotus 1-2-3

electron should be a system dependency. it would improve app size but also performance and startup time because everything could be preloaded into memory already.

>>102415836
>without discord you literally cannot exist
go outside anon

>>102416123
imagine if electorn apps were distributed as just zip files with .electron extensions. that would be cool.

>>102416160
what if electron apps just used your existing browser (like a PWA but less shit)

>>102415913
corpo newspeak for retarded normies. even Jeetsoft stopped using "program".

>>102415759
Why people totally forgot about native applications?

>"only reason"
implying all these "electron apps" cant be opened on a browser, there is no necessity for a whole desktop bs

This guy just says provocative nonsense so people talk about it and give him more views

>>102416302
>Why people totally forgot about native applications?
because the point is that native apps wouldnt actually exist. Web apps are easier to develop, no one would bother otherwise

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>yeah bro install our bloat on your PC so you can get functionality you could get using a browser
>but it will be slower cuz we hire streetshitters only

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>>102415767
>blocked by jblow

>>102415836
Please be trolling

>>102415767
This is the same grifter faggot that sucks off to furrysoftware, (((his))) opinion is discarded.

>>102415759
Funny because I have 0 (zero) electron "apps" in my system.

>>102416318
They're not easier but cheaper to develop.

>>102416672
you do have steam though which is just the same shit

>>102416698
its way faster to do electron app than anything with qt

>>102416698
>not easier
have fun with gtk kiddo

>>102416702
No. I don't gaym.

>>102416613
0 finished furry software, what a hack

>>102415809
all the people i've seen complain about Electron or any other convenient/popular but arguably inefficient framework are just armchair arguers who can AT BEST conjure prototypes in <obscure thing that is more efficient than popular webdev/inefficient thing>

no elitist goes all the way

>>102415913
bait so bad it still got people replying and taking it seriously

>>102415759
Literally use WinForms or any other native UI component framework. They do the job and they do it well. There's no reason for Jewscord, Jewtify or any other mainstream consoomer products to be in Electron, other than to piss off their userbase by making them feel that their computer is too slow.

test
also i use 0 electron programs

>>102417024
you are proposing to maintain 3-5 different codebases instead of one.
Also in real world a designer gives you a design you need to implement. And most of native systems are not capable to do pixel perfect implementation of that design on all platforms. And in rare case that they do they all do it slightly differently with very specific bugs that you will have to maintain.

tldr fuck you

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>>102415759
>>102415767
>>102415786
>>102415811
I don't see any argument. Try arguing with this, niggers

>>102415759
what? discord, telegram, whatsapp, and most electron apps have a web frontend, why the fuck would you not use just that?

>>102416123
>electron should be a system dependency
No, fuck off back to using one of the 3000 not working troonix distros. The point of electron is that it just works. If you want to updoot every single day, you should keep using Arch.
>>102416180
They would break after a while. Browsers and JS runtimes change all the time.
With electron, you can have a bundle, and it JUST WORKS with no dependency hell.

>>102417316
because browser apis are cucked to a very great extent.
There are many many things you are not able to do with them.
Like working with file system for example. This is the reason why obsidian and logseq are using electron.
working with protocols other than http. Imap ftp or whatever.
The list goes on.

>>102417325
>and it JUST WORKS
Doesn't even open on my Dell Inspiron 6400 laptop. Electron sucks

>>102417101
If your program fits in an Electron container, the proper place for it is in a web browser, as a PWA.
The designer will adapt themselves to the platform and limitations you're going to be working on. You're completely delusional if you think that "very specific bugs" don't exist only because you've adopted Electron; it's quite the opposite in the real world.

>>102415759
>"only reason why desktop Linux has any apps nowadays is because of electron"
>"the alternate for electron and web based apps is no apps for Linux"
all said "apps" need patches to work on Linux beacuse electron is not as cross platform as it claims to be. Also devs still love writing with windows specific shit, so it doesn't even run under wine because wine has shitload of issues with electron.

>>102417440
faggot. I develop apps both on electron and on native systems I know what I am talking about.

UI bugs in web are almost non existent and when they are it easy to debug. And they are all the same on all platforms. They are not different on each one.

As I said above >>102417349
There are very limited apis in the browser.
You are not even able to do full text search in there. Because your only storage solutions are indexdb and localstorage. There was websql but it was deprecated long ago.

and what about privacy concerns? You are not able to control what apps in your browser do. But in os you can block them with a firewall for example. All your data is stored on your machine.

>>102417440
browser is a very limited environment

>>102417325
>The point of electron is that it just works
so is java, python etc

imagine bundling entire python runtime with every python program

>>102415759
what a gay looking man

>>102417706
your app will be 100mb instead of 10. So what?

>>102415759
>ELECTRON IS BASED
... on javascript?

>>102417683
>java
Kind of, but I don't think people have Java installed anymore. You need the runtime for it to work.
>python
In 95% of the time, it's only the python scripts which are distributed. They are extremely far from just working. Dependency hell is a big problem with python. If you package the interpreter into one bundle, it just works.

>>102415805
Based, steamies deserve the rope

>>102417706
installing/maintaining python is a bad joke, news at 11

>>102417107
his daughter has a penis

>>102417812
either he's raising a boy as a girl or a girl as a boy

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>>102415759
FreeCAD is at 1.0RC right now. YOTLD is coming!

>>102415767
AIDS Clark Gable says gay stuff, more details at tonight 11.

>>102415759
Correct statement. Ad hominems from chuds aside, Electron is giving linux apps the ability to well, exist.

>>102416981
Except of course when they do and it causes a new framework to trend

>>102417593
>There are very limited apis in the browser.
I think most people agree that this is a problem. It's up to W3C/the standardization people to come up with a good solution to this problem.

>and what about privacy concerns? You are not able to control what apps in your browser do.
How is this even a question? What basic control do you have in the OS that you don't have in a browser context? What's preventing you from blocking the same host in the same firewall? The program authors choose whether to store data locally or on their side, it doesn't matter if you're running native or not.

>>102418391
the thing is. Back in the day browser apis were very powerful. But then google did something interesting they started paying ridiculous amounts of money to the white hackers (up to a million $ if I am no mistaken). They found a lot of security loopholes and we have less freedom of what we can do and how we can do it. For example we have to ask user and server for permissions to do some tasks now.

So for that reason I believe that some things will never be added.
They strategically limit what we can do in the browser.

There are a lot of apis we can use though
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API


yes you are probably right. But the difference is. Something that works in the browser is built to work with internet access. Many tasks are outsourced to some server. Electron apps are built with offline first approach.
So when you block some host with a firewall your browser app will stop working.
When you block your electron app with firewall you will not notice the difference.

>>102415759
99% of people who talk shit about electron is just parroting what the 1% fails to understand why electron is popular:

>it's as fast as java aka fast enough thanks to V8
>it's easy to write javascript/css and maintain
>it's the only cross-platform framework that is bearable to work with

electron solves the cross-plaform app problem by using the solution that already exists: browser engine, they solved this exact issue a decade ago.

people who only complain don't understand how deep this problem go.

>>102417718
>he doesn't know

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>>102415759
Theo is the ultimate webshitter archetype that has unfortunately infested programming. Loyal itoddler and any tech opinion that isn't about getting a career as a webshitter or how to use a bloated web dev framework is utterly worthless yet has job security and makes money. First off, mobile/web "apps" aren't even true applications half the time and can't hold a candle to most desktop programs. Second, Electron has only ever been used by lazy organizations or companies that primarily caters to a web or mobile audience and wants to port the app to desktops. Electron or any of the web to desk tools (https://github.com/Elanis/web-to-desktop-framework-comparison/) isn't even used in the majority of newer application on any desktop OS. .

WebView (Tauri) will replace Electron and then ya'll will have to find something other reason to bitch about web development like uh JS type coercion.

>>102419097
> Electron has only ever been used by lazy organizations or companies that primarily caters to a web or mobile audience and wants

do you know why discord exist? It was created after google released webrtc.
All the heavy lifting is done by it. Discord devs just made an interface for it.
Any nigger with half a brain can create his own discord if he feels like it. You can create a video / voice chat in less than an hour with it.
you have no idea how powerful web apis can be.

>>102417349
>>102417593
Agreed. Electron is kind of a meme, and it deserves some of the hate it gets, but the reality is that it makes things SO much easier to work on and fix. Writing code that takes advantage of the well tested and standardized Chromium base that will run on all platforms is such a godsend.

And I say this as a fossfag who would never install it on his own machines. For work related things, Electron is pretty amazing.

>>102419097
>Electron or any of the web to desk tools (https://github.com/Elanis/web-to-desktop-framework-comparison/) isn't even used in the majority of newer application on any desktop OS
Can you expand more on this or privode proof? What are companies using if not Electron? I am legitimately curious

>>102419297
I am not the guy you are asking but I can reply.

Companies prefer qt. it suck.
Flutter is getting really popular now. It is amazing.
https://flutter.dev/multi-platform

>>102418760
I don't...

>>102415759
I hate tech "influencers"

>>102415759
pleb.

>>102417929
1 is best.
4 is the shittiest one easily.
5 isn't much better.
2 and 3 are peak freetard design but I'm okay with that.

>>102415759
All of us Mac weenies have been arguing about this for years

>>102415759
kek, linux "apps" on life electron support

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>>102415779
steam doesn't even support 64b arch

Why cant people just Qt? Is the skill gap that high for someone to learn C++?

>>102415759
>electron is based
Didn't even read your post. I just want to say that I want you dead.

>>102417812
god I hope so

>>102423791
Cost.
Free version is bugs.

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>>102415759
nw.js mogs electron

>>102419494
fuck off Google shill

>>102415759
I use programs, not apps.

>>102415759
I use Obsidian and I had no idea it was an Electron app. It works incredibly well. I think Visual Studio Code also utilizes Electron.

I'm not opposed to the idea of things like Electron. I think Mozilla was going to release an OS with a desktop environment that was web-based. The demos were cool but it never really took off.

The idea of using HTML and CSS for all graphical shit is appealing. In practice, it kind of sucks. Whenever I inspect a website there's no uniformity anywhere. Some people are using frameworks and every single tag has a pseudo-class. Others are using React. All of these frameworks utilize JS in such different ways.

Ironically enough when I read C, its about 1000x times cleaner and easier to read.

>They literally owe their life to them.

>laughs in backend developer

This is delusional as fuck. We don't owe our lives to web devs. I still use shit like IRC. I don't need HTML5 and CSS to survive. If the web went underground and all I had was Gemini then I would be using Gemini.

>>102417107
This one is a good example of where the web worked as a programming environment. It would be attractive to children because things happen quickly and its made to be graphical. No kid would want to work with LISP and a REPL because they would just be staring at text and it would bore them to tears.


>>102417101
>you are proposing to maintain 3-5 different codebases instead of one.

When software developers write code in somthing like C, they make sure that its a single cross-platform codebase. Not multiple codebases. You've exposed yourself as a LARPer.


>>102417325
> With electron, you can have a bundle, and it JUST WORKS with no dependency hell.
This sounds like an attractive prospect but it just seems completely retarded to bundle a fucking psuedo-web browser with my software. Don't web devs realize that entire teams of real programmers (TM) coded their beloved environment?

>>102415759
As if OpenBSD is any different. You dont have to use web apps on Linux. I use purely GTK and Qt applications.

Why do we even have Linux just write the kernel in electron.

>>102424366
>This sounds like an attractive prospect but it just seems completely retarded to bundle a fucking psuedo-web browser with my software. Don't web devs realize that entire teams of real programmers (TM) coded their beloved environment?
It sounds as if you were compensating for something here.
Why would it be retarded to bundle the runtime environment with the application to guarantee it runs on the end user's machine? Linux dependencies are a colossal dumpster fire. Anyone who denies this is straight-out lying to themselves. When you make user applications, making sure it works is essential. This is what sets apart the philosophies of Windows and Mac (which "just work") and Linux (which doesn't).

>>102415759
I don't care about apps.

>>102415836
I don't use discord and function just fine faggot.

>>102425550
you can't really normalfag without discord for the times when you wanna be in a voice call with multiple people or if yku wanna VC during vidya gaem sessions. are you really functioning "just fine"?

>>102423931
It is not my fault they are doing great job in this specific case.

>>102424366
>When software developers write code in somthing like C, they make sure that its a single cross-platform codebase. Not multiple codebases. You've exposed yourself as a LARPer.

nobody uses c for ui development these days. C++ maybe. But my head starts to spin when I think of how complex it would be. Imagine we have to support 5 platforms: Android, Ios, Mac, Windows, Linux. Choosing a compiler and creating cmake for this project would take quite some time. And the anon above was not suggesting some crossplatfrom framework. He wanted to use something native for each platform. Like windows forms for windows, swift ui for mac ios etc
Also I have never heard of a modern crossplatfrom ui framework for c++. Juice maybe?

I am sincerely interested what exactly you are suggesting here.
So please enlighten me.

>>102426252
now when I think of it qt would work here. As much as I hate it. Just checked v6 supports both android and ios.

SO yes I guess you are right.

>>102423913
it always did. I mean electron was created after node webkit.
The fact that you can use browser extension apis is incredible.

But it never got really popular. Maybe because they changed their name after electron became a thing. Maybe because github was behind it.

today there are hundreds of electron killers
https://github.com/sudhakar3697/awesome-electron-alternatives

>>102415786
Theo is a massive, smarmy faggot.
>"Chat what do you think, chat?"
> "Chat, is this real?"
> "Oh, my god. Chat is *really* mad at me, chat"

Has anyone here worked with Avaolnia? How hard would it be to write a folder directory system with Avaolnia compared to Electron? I have decent experience with C#

>>102427461
Is this who people mean when they say "theo"? I assumed they were talking about de raadt. Can we reserve "theo" for the guy who actually knows something about technology and call this guy something else? Same goes for that tech tips faggot btw.

>>102415759
Arm or aarch64 support? Oh right, can you keep your chromeonly shit webapps to yourself, it's a plague on linux world just like flatpaks/snaps and other shortcut bs, die in a fire

What's an app

>>102429124
Apparently for nodejs devs something that needs a full chrome to parse, nodejs/deno forget it, I need you to run full chrome so I don't have to bother rewriting, the laziest of devs, just run chrome engine so you can parse my js kek

>>102429149
same thing could be said about docker.
It is for lazy back end devs and devops who do not want to configure their environment properly. So they launch a vm with ENTIRE LINUX inside just to run some shitty service.

This is the reason I am active in this thread. I do not care much about js or electron.
But I wasted a lot of time learning "the proper way" of writing software just to learn that it sucks.

Do not listen to those niggers. If you like web it is light years ahead of anything those niggers can offer you.

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>>102415767
>this shirt
>this mustache
>this hair
Confirmed 100% faggot

>>102415770
This. Been using gentoo since 2012. There's no electron on my system.

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>>102415767
Linux-fags btfo

>>102415759
>Linux
>apps
I want to distinguish myself from jeets, jeets-like for the record.

>>102415805
reggiNigger

>>102429708
You do not understand Docker.
You do not understand Docker usecases.
You are dumb.

>>102430740
I’ve been working with it for a very long time.

you just write something like "you are dumb".
Where exactly I am wrong.
Can you elaborate?

>>102430740
kek. also
You do not understand Electron.
You do not understand Electron usecases.
you are dumb.

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>>102423913
>nw.js
>Compass points northeast
What did they mean by this?

>>102430740
nothing? you would not try to say something about orchestration or scalability?
how you could build your apps with it for multiple platforms?

I mean I am not an expert.
I’ve been using this for many years http://devilbox.org/
Very rarely I have to write or edit a docker file and once I had to create my own docker image.

with that said. I want you to explain something to me.
You niggers like building complex microservices architectures don't you? So to create one app you build 3-10 docker containers. One for storage some postgress monga or whatever one for some service on go etc etc
How is it better than building an electron app?
RUNNING 3-10 LINUXES for a single app.
such a bloat. Oh but we need that bloat. If something fails or there is too much traffic we can simply add more containers.
It is so simple and repeatable.

kek.

same thing can be said about js frameworks this >>102424366 nigger mentioned.
You have so many languages that solves tasks in so many different ways but ultimately trying to solve the same problems.
It is like you reinventing the wheel over and over again just for some syntactic sugar you must have.

I refuse to listen to anything this faggots says

>Slack and Discord

>>102431315
You can run aarch64/arm docker images easily, how's that fucking chrome for arm64 coming electron trannies

>>102429708
>So they launch a vm with ENTIRE LINUX inside just to run some shitty service
docker isn't a vm (though in some ways it's similar, and i guess on mac/windows it might actually be a vm)
docker shares the linux kernel of the host machine, which is why it is so light on resources
docker is a straight up godsend if you don't need a vm and just need to get something up and running quickly

>>102415759
>baseddev larper pic
>webshitter opinion
Opinion disregarded

>>102415809
The second type should ropemaxx so that we can start getting good and efficient software again, made with actual passion and responsibility and not just for "getting da bag"

>>102431225
Working with something for a long time and not understanding it is embarrassing.

>>102431315
Not a rebuttal.

>>102431738
You still don't understand Docker. You still don't know most of its usecases.

>>102415759
people like to shit on rust and go but then have no problem with python or electron or typescript. wtf is wrong with people?

>>102415759
proton is the same shit
>no one wants to write native games for linux
>instead we're building a layer on top of wine to run windows games on linux

>>102415759
>Why are Linux people so delusional and shit on web based apps and web devs in general?

I don't think they do that tho. Web dev is pretty much the only thing you can do on Linux.

>>102432734
you still do not prove that you do.
in fact all you have written is some white noise.

>>102432481
I think I heard something about it.
But I never wondered how exactly it works. I know that you can run a windows in a container so I assumed that it is a vm.
I always assumed that it is not light on resources. Mainly because I tried to run some docker apps on local machine like this one
https://github.com/RD17/ambar
long long time ago. It was so fucking slow and resource heavy to run.

in any case good to know - thank you.

>>102432968
>prove
>assume
>assume
>assume
You do not know how Docker works. Your opinions are based on incorrect information. Go learn.

>>102433024
as far as I can tell you do not know anything.
You just pointing fingers.

>>102415759
>>102415767
Massive webshit baseddev shill to make pajeets and incompetent retards feel better about their bloatware. I hate these fucking holier-than-thou e-celeb techbros I see every day on JewTube so much as if they want to be seen as masters of CS, grand gurus, computer wizards, etc. and everyone should regurgitate their shitty opinions and praise them unconditionally in their comment section. I would never install Discord (spyware) so that's a weird excuse to make about Electron. Sublime Text is still better than now-deprecated Atom. The only reason why Adobe Flash and Java applets died out is because they weren't FOSS. I don't even have Electron or (((Facebook's))) React Native apps on my phone because it takes up too much storage and RAM.

I forgot 4chan converts "s 0 y" to "based" because of trannies who run it.

>>102415759
>the alternate for electron and web based apps is no apps for Linux
no it isnt??????????????????? another alternative is just man up and write native apps?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

the new generation has a special kind of cancer.

>>102433124
>just man up and write native apps
Yeah, you first. App/frontend developers are the most retarded of the whole IT field, and they simply won't do Linux apps. Real developers don't care about this shit. It's unironically a good thing to coallesce all app/frontend development, just that Electron is kinda a piece of shit (though it works).

Why can't we have something like Electron, Python or Java, but in a compiled language? Where the language has underlying libraries and functions for each OS, you write single code base and compile instead of going through 9001 interpreters and virtual environments?

>>102433233
you're retarded, gc

>>102433100
>>102433124
>>102433233
those points are as bad as my docker analogy above. which was the point of it.

I am going to try to explain to you why electron is not good for certain things.

There is never a need for a webdev to manage memory when he is building a website. So most of those who develop electron apps do not even think about it.
Because in most cases they never learn how to do it properly in js.

In most cases it works ok. But if you build a chat app or rss client or anything that works with a lot of information it is not.
if you are not careful you will use way more resources than you should.

For that very reason I barely use any electron apps myself. Only logseq and obsidian. And logseq is very poorly written.

other than that you people do not know what you are talking about.

>>102433346
ok let's see the native apps you wrote
>>102433361
I'm not sure why you call my point bad then roughly agree with me

>>102433430
I am telling you specifically what is wrong with electron instead of calling developers retarded and saying that it is a piece of shit.

I do it because I believe electron is an amazing and very powerful thing.
It just needs to be taught properly.

think of it.
just the fact that you can build your own browser complete free from google brave firefox niggers is a beautiful thing.

>>102433285
https://wails.io
https://tauri.app

Never really understood why electron is still so hated since it makes cross platform programs much easier and quicker to develop
>hurrrrr but it's le bloated!!!
I got 32gb of DDR5 ram for $80. unironically stop being poor/autistic

>>102433475
Sort of agree but anyone doing frontend is retarded and couldn't handle real software. Simple as.

>>102433664
We got to the point of requiring 32 GB of RAM specifically because of shit like Electron

>>102428970
Theo is a shitlib webdev. He doesn't know "something about technology."

>>102430560
Theo is a legit homosexual.

>>102433921
And? Ram is cheap. Use something other than your gay 20 year old thinkpad and you won't have to worry about resource management

>>102433124
>expects web companies to write gtk apps
holy shit you are delusional

>>102434128
>expects web companies to write gtk apps
yes

>>102434112
>stop complaing and consoom more
Shut the fuck up nigger, I have 32 GB of RAM myself and I hate the fact that I actually need it in 2024 and not even for professional tasks.

>>102434613
unused ram is wasted ram
resource and optimization is a valid concern for server software or vidya but just basic desktop applications you're being a pedantic faggot parroting problems from the past decade

>>102434862
Shut the fuck up nigger. I shouldn't have to buy more RAM or even a new computer to use a web browser and a communicator. There's no reason for everyday software other than video games to require more than a Raspberry Pi.

>>102434004
....I was obviously referring to de raadt

the only 'electron' programs i use are discord (which i hate, but it's what my roommates use) and steam (which was better before they did that, now it's slow and janky, like the menu buttons don't work unless i hold ctrl for who fucking knows what reason)