>amazon is a retarded out of touch micromanaging company for forcing workers back to the office>amazon is genius and knows what they're doing; forcing people to quit rather than laying them offwhich one do you believe? or neither?
>>102431612It's the second one but it doesn't make them geniuses, it's been done before.
Easiest way to get people to voluntarily quit, Occupy the offices they are paying, find which are the desperate ones to be used as a future sacrifice. I wouldn't be surprised the elite that quit will probably become consultants.
>>102431612it's not that simple. or rather, it can be that simple. most of the time, it's out of control and out of money.
>>102431751counterpoint: it is that simple.
WFH is immoral and once you fall into that lifestyle you will ultimately lack any discipline. People worked 5 days a week in the office before the pandemic hoax of 2020. Why are they crying about having to do something they had to do for all of time up until then? The market for remote jobs will be extremely competitive now anyway, so unless you're truly special (you aren't) you will have to return to the office.
>>102431612They could've just stuck to e-commerce and held the company together with like 10 devs but noooo they had to make the echo and prime video and audible and they had to put prime video on every model of smart TV and platform possible so they have to hire an entire team for each of them, and they had to make the Kindle with its own operating system so there's another team there separate from the Kindle app team, and then you need an entire managerial hierarchy above that to hold everything together ontop of the PM (cis f) and Scrumm master (out of touch boomer) making $200k each for every team
>>102431612it's both. they want to micromanage AND they need to reduce some of their workforce.
>>102431856>Why are they crying about having to do something they had to do for all of time up until then?because it was pointless back then toothe difference now is that the past few years provided hard proof that it's pointless because everyone was doing it and it was fine, but boomers are still digging in their heels because they don't want their office space to crash in value
>>102432027>AND they need to reduce some of their workforce.I think this part is just people being superstitious.
Amazon has been known to be a worse place to work than the rest of FAGMAN, less pay, harder work, worse benefits.It's both, not that WFH is always bad but tons of people just slack off, and they probably made the calculation that making them quit this way is profitable.You can expect this to happen in most companies now that there is a larger supply of workers than jobs. Only the very skilled will be allowed WFH.
>>102431856>WFH is immoralYou invested in commercial real estate? What a moron! lol
>>102431612Why cant it be both in that it is retarded for forcing people back into the office and forcing people who cant/wont to quit? Why does a company like Amazon who makes so much money NEED to do any of this when they are such a "success"?
>>102431707>Occupy the offices they are payingWhy not just get out of the leases or use/sell the properties for better purposes? Why would they desperately want to keep paying money for otherwise useless offices?
>>102433636funny how when the average person takes losses, we should accept it, but when a rich person has to, suddenly it's immoral and wrong.
>>102431856>Why are they crying about having to do something they had to do for all of time up until then?Not having to spend time and gas commuting, more time to do other things, more flexibility with their schedules and what they could do. WFH was a huge game changer for most people and that pandoras box that tech companies cant be closed. Its too late, every millenial and zoomer will make sure it comes back at any cost possible
>>102431612I would come work in an amazon office for half of what these remote niggers make, but they won't hire me so I don't really care what happens to their business because of this
>>102431612They do the same thing to reduce headcount in the warehouses. They assign mandatory overtime and start micromanaging the low performers.
>>102433781Im already changing jobs to full remote cause my job been pushing for three days a week. the commute sucks and its such a waste of time being there when I easily do everything here at my home.
>>102431856I've been WFH for 13 years and I get more done now than I ever did at the office. If I could get rid of about half of the meaningless meetings created by officefag middle managers I could get even more done.I don't need meetings 3x/wk where you talk about your California fag life, tell the same stories over and over, and reiterate what you already told me about what the project is and what you want. Heard you the first time. I'm ahead of schedule, as usual. Like I told you Monday and last Friday. Go bitch at the jeets, they're the ones behind.
>>102433744They have a certain appraised/book value they can't recoup now. Commercial real estate is in the shitter. And will be worse when the bottom drops and people start selling at fire sale prices out of necessity.
The second one is stupid but that doesn't mean they're not motivated by it. Who is most likely to quit? Those who have other options. Who are the people with the greatest number of other employment options? The most talented employees. So option two runs off the most talented employees and leaves behind the really shitty ones who wouldn't dare quit because they know they couldn't get hired on anywhere else.
>>102436003My company went to mostly remote work a few years before the pandemic and the main thing I noticed is that I rarely needed to take sick days anymore. Not only was I not catching colds and flus from other people in the office, if I was sick, I didn't have to decide if I was going to go into the office and infect a bunch of people there. Plus if I don't have to get dressed and commute, it's easier to work when I'm feeling marginal. Also my dentist and family doctor are both in my area so if I need to see either of them, it's not as time consuming as when I had to come back from the office downtown.
I know I am seeing a lot of back-and-forth on this topic, but I really need to push back and raise some red flags here. Having an on-site office presence is foundational to our ability to drive efficiencies in a corporate landscape. It is in our DNA. Sure, there is no 'one size fits all' or silver bullet and some are just boilerplate solutions, leveraged to the hilt and really only keeping us at a 30,000-foot-view of things. Being on-site, however, really allow us to get better granularity, find better directional-indicators, or loop back and dive deep into some critical issues on a go-forward basis.I think if you all start spending more time in the office again, you'll find yourself trending toward the positive, but you'll have to keep an eye on the puck. Gut through it, reduce thrash, and let's stay in lock-step on this. Yes, we will synergize!What's the root cause of the hatred of Corporate office spaces? I'll put my layman's hat on and guess that it comes from movies such as Office Space and Dilbert cartoons. But we all know that these are fictional spaces, and real office spaces allow us to touch base in a much more efficient manner.I have to time-box this comment, as I have a hard-stop in a moment when I will have to jump onto a call. So, just one more point that I want to cover-off on: let's socialize the idea of having more office presence and loop back to see whether we're being more impactful. From a management standpoint, I think that we can get the traction to do it.So, net/net, ignore the naysayers, sidebar the folks that are stuck in the weeds, and don't waste cycles or bandwidth on folks that don't align strongly with this mission. Try it out, and we'll have another touch point in a little while to see if we've moved the needle. Remember, our north star hasn't changed. We're still championing our core values remotely and we will only do it better in person.If you need me, I will be online again in a bit.
>>102436345delicious pastaand every middle manager to a T
>>102431856>WFH is immoral and once you fall into that lifestyle you will ultimately lack any discipline.this is massive projection lmao. i would know because i personally am a huge unproductive piece of shit when i WFH too. but i acknowledge that a lot of people are more-or-equivalently productive from home. so let them work from home.what i really hate is the WFH cult people who come at me when i say i prefer working in office. different strokes for different folks.
>>102436283And your sex life?
>>102436430I completely get why some people prefer the office. I really wish my office was local so I could have the option and pop in once a month or so to do some in person meetings, do an after-work whiteboard plan with some co-workers, catch lunch with some guys in other departments, a happy hour with the boss, that kind of thing. So much informal communication can happen when you're in closer proximity. But I'm more productive now that my job is more siloed and that isn't my life every day.
>>102431612I don't mind working from home, working at the office no longer makes sense to me, but I understand why they want us to go back. For everyone like me who actually works hard there are like 40 lazy motherfuckers who ruin it for everyone who buy shit like automouse movers, who would rather smoke weed and giggle at tiktok than do the tasks set out before them in an unstructured setting. People need this structure or nothing gets done. People are really fucking lazy. Until we fix laziness, get your ass in some proper clothing, get in your disgusting cars and get your asses to work.
>>102431612Just go to office and don't do shit as an engineer. Introduce hard to spot bugs etc. Make your solutions complex on purpose. And then switch to another company with WFH and with 2 days notice period. Fuck them back anon, it's the only way to do it. Every Amazon employee can switch companies easily.
>>102436345This post triggered me
>>102431612really valuable employees will be granted a pass by their direct managers. So it's really to just dust the shelves and get undesirables to voluntarily quit.
>>102436345what does your company do
>>102431612>micromanagingThey're cutting management positions, though.
>our company only wants AAA+ 10x engineers who are passionate about our mission>also we'll treat you like dogshit just like we do our warehouse staff
