Either get practicing the grunt work with toy projects or get urself a team

>unsubscribed

>my problem is that I am a nocoder and let me tell you why people suck at programming

>>103234340
But people do suck at coding because they're lousy at abstraction. and I'm not, I have another problem.

>>103234311
>Most people struggle with baking because they can’t handle the complexity of creating a recipe from scratch. I’m fine with working with recipes and adapting them. I love the idea of experimenting and decorating the cake, coming up with creative ways to present it. But if you asked me to bake a cake entirely from scratch without a recipe, measuring flour, balancing sugar, and choosing the right ingredients, I’d get overwhelmed and lost in the details. I wouldn’t know how to make the perfect sponge, or even how to ensure it doesn’t collapse in the oven. If someone gave me pre-made cake layers, frosting, and decorations (like libraries in coding), I’d assemble something amazing. But creating each component myself? It’s a struggle. I feel like I could be a great pastry chef overseeing the process giving input on how the cake should look and guiding the team on the vision. But I’d struggle if I had to grind out the details of every step myself because I’m slow and get bogged down by the minutiae.

This is how you sound to sane people, OP.

>>103234311
Being good at abstractions is the minimum requirement for mid level - or grunt level devs. Wait until you find out how good Pajeets are at implementing AbstractLooFactory

>>103234374
Dude, this is literally me. I can't cook from scratch, I fail a billion times before I get it right.
but I always follow a recipe to a T and get it right.

>>103234389
successful programmers knowing how to do all (at least most) of working parts of the software from scratch, so they are aware of the projects state at all stages of development, when they become senior engineers.

>>103234402
>he thinks senior engineer in his company isn't a nocoder chad who just lied on his resume

>>103234311
Yeah, you're good at coding, but you suck ass at programming

>>103234311
The hard part for me is dealing with people. Like explaining anything very technical in layman's terms or explaining why we can't do something. Often the answer is "because we're not Google" but they don't like that. They think Google is one guy that just does a lot of leetcode. Or why anything will take longer than a day to complete.

>>103234774
Like "break it down into smaller chunks and estimate each one"
I don't think like that. I don't plan everything I'm going to do in the development process up front. I just figure it out as I go until it's done.

>>103234778
I'm the opposite, I need to preplan everything in advance, otherwise I write spaghetti duck taped software.

>>103234311
You are just a midwit

>>103234907
I just refactor my spaghetti after I figure out what I need in the first place. If I plan everything ahead I could plan not enough, or too much for what's really needed. Too much is fine because then I come in under estimate but project managers are so argumentative about estimates they usually want to plan on the cheapest, hacked together solution as possible and when we need more it's a battle to get time scheduled to do the needful.

>>103234363
>im not like the other girls
yes, you are
kys

>>103234374
>Food analogy
Ameri-kun...

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>>103234311
Gentlemen.
I love coding.

>>103234311
Most people are incapable of abstract thought. They have to have things happen to them literally in order for them to understand concepts.

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>>103235339

>>103235339
How do you retards watch this shit unironically? I looked this up because I was curious and this shit is retarded as fuck.

>>103235979
it requires 130IQ+ to enjoy

>>103234311
>Most people suck at coding because they can't deal with abstraction
wtf?
cope?
>my problem is that I suck at the details.
so if you told me to write a script that could something, so long as I have prewritten code snippets (libraries) where I can use these to build up the program then I'm good.
cope.
you lack visualization abilities
maybe bc you have been taught wrong, as in: starting from a high level approach
>I feel like I could be a good senior engineer because I do well when I can abstract freely, but I can't do the grunt work my self.
lol, no
you need to understand what youre asking from your subordinates, down to the tiniest detail, in order to be a good lead
step down from your cloud, you know half of what it takes to be a competent engineer, let alone a lead

>>103235279
but im not like other girls tho

>>103234311
>I don't want to work.
>I know about the world.
>If I had slaves I could live with only simple orders.
Stop dreaming and Do your job.

>>103234311
If you're so good at abstraction just do that heavily oop clean code shit and feel good about yourself

>>103234311
linus is a shitty coder tho

>>103235285
everyone eats food and poops (which is humiliating and therefore why it's funny)

>>103234311
How DARE you use his IMAGE on THIS DRIVEL?!?!?!?! Delete THIS!!!!!!1

>>103234311
>I feel like I could be a good senior engineer because I do well when I can abstract freely, but I can't do the grunt work my self
If only that were the job of senior engineers. Back in reality, seniors are FAR more likely to move freely between different layers of abstraction. This is required both for diagnosing issues and designing software in the first place.

>>103234311
Sounds like cope.

>>103234311
you're bad at coding
also you will never be a woman

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>>103236187
typical delulu troon
>I have such bright imagination
(maladaptive daydreaming and cope)
>therefore I'm really smart
>but I can't actually make my delusions happen
>but that's not my fault because of society

>>103234311
>I have no problem with abstractions what so ever.
oh yeah well why didn't you abstract "what so ever" into whatsoever
hrmm?

>>103234311
Sorry, but coding includes all the details. If you can't build it from scratch then you're just plumbing.

>>103244765
plumbers know what they're doing unlike this nocoder humiliation thread

>>103234311
Stallman wouldn't have banned people based on their nationality.

>>103234945
Is it just you spamming 'midwit' over and over on this board or is this a meme now? I say this because its not a modern word and I seem to only see it used on image boards. Is this the new way for zoomers to signal that they think everyone is beneath them? Or simply one try hard with a limited vocabulary.

>>103244774
True, I get the feeling that OP is in some mildly technical role and now is trying to justify why he's also on the same level as devs even though it seems like he doesn't care to learn the bullshit. Unfortunately the reason devs get paid over 100k is because they learned and can work with all those little details that make normies feel like they're fucking a blender.

>>103244800
demon screams out in pain as you call its true name

>>103244774
>plumbers know what they're doing
yeah but they're just plumbing

>>103244800
midwit has been around 4chan for longer than zoomers have been a significant amount of the userbase

>>103234416
no way a programmer gets to senior level in a company without being at least decently knowledgeable. he would have to go highlander mode on every single programmer under him when they figure out he doesn't know shit and can't write code

that said you can probably slip through the cracks and become some kind of useless middle management email type with 0 marketable skills. unlike senior programmers, no one expects anything out of them and they have very little oversight

>>103234311
You don't even understand what abstraction is

>>103244842
>he thinks HR department is full of people who know how to program and can filter nocoders from senior positions

>>103234311
You cant write blender because blender has, what, 1.000.000.000 lines of code?

>>103244830
?

>>103244841
I've only seen it posted for 2 years. The bigger one I said is 'retard.'

>>103244865
midwit

>>103244865
midwit isn't a retard, tho. a midwit is someone of middling intelligence. Unremarkable, but not stupid compared to the general population

>>103234311
you don't have problems with abstraction because you don't do it. when you use a library, the abstraction is already thought out for you. you can't do big projects because "it requires too many working parts" for which you'd actually need to build abstractions for. but you can't.

>>103244856
even if you get through 3+ interview rounds, programmers are pretty good at sniffing out incompetence. being a senior programmer with 0 skills and getting away with it would involve a lot of people looking the other way or not caring that you are pulling a 200k salary despite evidently providing 0 value or help to anyone. that or everyone is just as incompetent as you are

>>103244871
I'm not the OP. I am just a random curious about your language choice.

>>103244865
>>103244876
also it's definitely older than two years

Unrelated but what do you guys think of that 'over employed' shit? Is that all an elaborate troll. Because I'm very good at getting remote jobs but I can't imagine anyone would be able to do multiple full-time coding gigs at once. Usually it takes me all day to get anything done and by the time its over I'm ready to stop. These people claim they can competently work multiple jobs. Are they just doing some low skilled sys admin shit or trolling?

>>103244907
i thought that meme was specifically referring to people who were able to have multiple remote jobs but didn't actually do much work for one (or either) of them

>>103234311
>I have no problem with abstractions what so ever.
>my problem is that I suck at the details.
>so if you told me to write a script that could something, so long as I have prewritten code snippets (libraries) where I can use these to build up the program then I'm good.
libraries are abstractions that simplify details
someone who writes a good software library has both an intimate understanding of the details of a problem, and the ability to create an interface (abstraction) for other programmers that is simple enough that using it is preferable to trying to understand the details themselves
you can't actually create abstractions (because you're not good at details), but you can use other people's abstractions to write programs that don't have
>too many working parts
so you can't create abstractions, but you can use them, and you think that qualifies you to be the boss of people who can both create and use them

>>103244895
>curious
curious enough to not be a dimwit, too obtuse and defensive to not be a midwit, yes it's a midwit

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>>103234311
Anyone can become an engineer but not a software engineer. That stuff is like witchcraft. Imagine taking a book from a library and it's filled with 500 pages of c++ code and yuo need tosfind the mistake. You can't even visualize it in 3d with all of your senses and instantly see if there's a bug somewhere. Einstein used t say if I can't picture it I can't understand it I think that's very deep and profound. You cant picture a law of thermodynamcs. You can't picture a gazillion grains of sand scattered all accreoss the universe

>>103244757
to emphasize

>>103244961
I can create and isolate things in order to use them later, but im too lazy for that shit.

>>103245155
>too lazy
classic cope. you just don't have what it takes

>>103245155
kill yourself faggot

>>103245204
not problem wagie, you do the coding, and I'll overseer the project.

>>103245249
I put "nigger" in my code, what now?

>>103234311
>I feel like I could be a good senior engineer, but I can't do the grunt work my self.
Many such cases.

>>103245004
For millions of years the simple insult of 'retard' has been enough. It takes a true faggot to decide that they're special and seek out a new way to signal their superiority. As if to say 'such crass language is beneath my academic sensitives.' When in fact you're posting on a site filled with paedophiles and retarded zoomers. It goes without saying that such claims here are meaningless. So I can't help imagine anyone but a grating neckbeard doing this.

>>103245298
ok midwit

>>103245263
You get fired and I have HR hire a nearly identical replacement for you

>>103245321
But I don't even work here, I'm just here for free coffee?

>>103245155
What you're saying is still valuable but let me put it like this. The bare minimum that good engineers need to be is capable enough to use others work, right. It means they can do web shit, CRUD apps, and what ever else bullshit. This also takes the least skill though so there's more people doing it. More supply means lower salary, more competition, and less job security.

Companies are motivated to cut costs are software engineers are still a massive cost. To companies they have always viewed IT as just some inconvenient expense. If an IT department exists to keep the businesses rats nest obsolete dog shit running. Then as long as it does the business thinks the department is 'doing nothing.' Yet when something bad happens 'its the IT departments fault.' Managers have the attitude that devs are egg heads, over-paid, and will replace them the moment opportunity allows. That's just the reality.

Yet as long as you're using your skills to innovate you're always on the cutting edge. Your skills are never obsolete because when companies launch around tech that you specialize in you're ready. But you have to be the one inventing it. Thinking of the concepts and executing them. Ideas are worthless. Currently this can still be done without grad level math. But IMO: even the window for that is closing.

>>103245306
I thought you would post that. Do you know why? Because the profile I have of you in my head is someone that's insecure, an under achiever, yet also lazy. I thought your reply would just be 'midwit' but close enough.

>>103244765
>you're just plumbing
not OP here, I sjre am, on that note, go ahead build me an alexa, and don't use any libraries, I'll wait

>>103245362
sorry, dont work on legacy shit

>>103235979
>gorgeous art
>slick animation
>booba
>hit and miss jokes, they're so quick and detached from everything else they don't really ruin it when they miss
>outlandishly cool character designs
>constant stream of chuuni bullshit chants and speeches
>funny anime nazis

Kino, Hellsing will never happen again

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>>103235979
_____nazi catboy_____
your argument is invalid

In the end they ship garbage https://michael.orlitzky.com/articles/charmbypass_pt._2%3A_analysis.xhtml

>>103234311
If the library doesn't quite exist yet ask copilot/another LLM to write it with some quickcheck tests. Then you get to play the senior role with a exceptionally retarded junior.

>>103234311
tldr you suck at programming. Nice.

>>103236160
you forgot the severe mental illness and/or autism part

>>103234311
Abstraction is bullshit and largely contends with problems that dont exist. the only valid abstraction is done to provide ease of the details your currently contending with, and doesn't mean anything unless your implementing it. ergo if you suck at the details your abstractions are likely meaningless. Especially in the era of script kiddie slop- the days of the cathedral architecture is over

>>103250195
haha the amount of auto sliding on this board from my IP/MAC is hilarious

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>>103234311
jesus christ this is so cringe it made me feel uneasy reading it
you are just a nocoder with extreme dunning-kruger

abstraction is easy af to *design*, and hard *to make work*
picking the right level of it, enough to avoid comical repetition but not so much that the result is just unnecessarily more complex can only be measured in practice
that's what people mean when they say abstraction is hard, not that people are too dumb to understand vague ideas

you're not lazy, you're just incapable, without achievements, and think yourself unique while you're only uniquely arrogant because you don't realize this is nothing extraordinary, and you're boasting about the trivial shit
as linus said "show me the code" and gtfo otherwise you CS101 cringelord

>>103234311
>people suck at coding because they can't deal with abstraction
what no. this is just some weird cope you have to trick yourself into believe you're not trash lol

>>103234374
fucking kek put me in the screen cap

>>103252149
You sound mad for a troll post.

>REEEEE YOU'RE A NO CODER
most of you here can hardly write a backend server. hell, I'd be impressed to see a functioning frontend. same as OP.

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>>103252824
Backends are security black holes

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>>103252779
I'll take that any day over writing shit as embarrassing as OP did before pretending it's just ironic
picrel

>>103250195
Abstraction is taxonomy. Good abstraction just means you've named the right parts. A good name lets you use it without thinking about the details of the definition.
For example a Haskell value with type

Lens' s a

is a setter/getter gets used with several other functions. I don't have to think about

type Lens' s a = forall f. Functor f => (a -> f a) -> (s -> f a)

to synthesize or decide

over (traversed._1) (2+)

is a function that adds two to the first element of every tuple in the supplied collection. It's easier to think about a specialization of function composition

(.) :: Traversal' a b -> Lens' b c -> Traversal a c

than to inline the type aliases and end up with a type that has 11 ->

>>103234311
> they can't deal with abstraction
a CPU isn't abstract at all, retard

>>103234311
>good at code
>doesn't know only a fool would fail to pick a woman to reproduce with

Just get Claude to write you the snippets you need.