>overrpiced; cheap ones are 2-3x times they were event 5 years ago>firmware backdoors from every single vendor>now come with bloat that constantly reinstalls itself no matter how much you try to remove it>quality control is considerable worse than a decade ago
>>103238173>now come with bloat that constantly reinstalls itself no matter how much you try to remove itnot the case on my Linux distribution I agree with every other point, fuck Mainboard manufacturers
>>103238173>actually useful features like error code displays, cmos reset button and bios flashback only on $400+ motherboards
GAYmers
>>103238262Pretty much every AM5 board has BIOS flashback, bar a few really cheap ones. Blame that fag Buildzoid for error code displays being locked to high-end boards now. He hyped them up as a killer feature that people should be looking for and this was the result.
>>103238173People started getting way too emotionally attached to the hardware industry at large.It's the same shit that has happened to the smartphone industry. There is this idea that everything a company does whether in their operations or products must be for your benefit. Any criticism is attacked or spun in such a way to try to make you agree with the idea that something is good.
>>103238286this is officially the first thread in 4chan(nel) history where OP isn't the biggest faggot in the thread
>>103238173disable armory crate from the BIOS
>>103238333And where am I wrong?If people weren't irrational and evaluated things based on functionality and value, the mobo market wouldn't be in the mess OP describes.IDK how many people have excused pricing of anything as just the cost of a hobby
>>103238467sorry I was shitposting from my phone and didn't read your post correctly your point is correct - the corpo loving consoomers are at fault
>>103238173Boards did go up in BOM because the ultra-fast I/O connectivity (PCIe 4/5, DDR5, USB 3.2 etc) necessitates the need for 6-8 layer PCB boards which used to only limited to workstation/server SKUs. You also have regular desktop CPUs that draw excess of 100W or more that requires more robust power delivery and cooling for it. The USD has weaken plus the massive trade trade deficit with Taiwan/China. The days of $99-149 motherboard SKU providing most of the essentials are gone. The floor is now ~$199. Most of the mark-up with $299+ SKUs are just motherboards vendors fishing out the whales who get them as status symbols. The epitome of this are $1K+ MSI MEG GODLIKE and ASUS ROG EXTREME SKUs.
>>103238173>>quality control is considerable worse than a decade agoWrong, quality control is actually very good. You no longer have to deal with the infamous capacity plague that impacted SKUs from 2000s. The power delivery on most SKUs are overengineered to a comical degree (Literately spec for suicide run-tier overclocking)
>>103238352but my rgb?
>>103238600Its so good Asus had to recall boards for a flipped capacitor that had the ability to catch fire.
>>103238284Nah, debug LED is mostly overkill outside of die-die tweakers/overclockers. That's why most SKU opt for the more simple LED fault (CPU, memory, video and boot) which works for vast majority of modern desktop builds.
>>103238716An outlier, QA was much worse over decade+ ago. You zoomers/generation alpha types have no clue at all.You have lost your composure back when you had to map a good number of settings via jumpers and DIP switches. You better save that manual for it.
>>103238577>ANUS ENEMA EXTREME GAPE GAYMER SUPREME X6969 ONLY 699.99$Yep now I feel like my build is complete.
>>103238173>Where the fuck did splitting 16x PCIE lanes to two 16x physical slots at 8 lanes each go?Why the fuck are motherboard companies now putting 2-4 physical 16x PCIE on the board but anything past the main CPU connected 16x slot is just wired to a 4x, or even 1x lane from the chipset?That also shares pcie lanes with either any 1x physical slots, SATA controler, and/or M.2 slots because every motherboard needs at least 4-5 M.2 slots now apparently.At least the 8x/8x split was usefull even if it wasn't always optimal for high throughput.
>>103238611You silly boy!Stop being a ricer, sweetie!
>>103238611openrgb
>>103239078thxrated useful
>>103238173Following NVIDIA pricing out partners with their Founders Edition con-job, the AIBs did price discovery and compensated with massive margins on motherboards.
>>103238600>capacitor plagueHe said "a decade ago" not nearly thirty fucking years ago.
>>103239277Nah, it is just whales and their eCelebrities/influencers that start the price hiking. Zoomers and millennials with deep pockets that are getting these SKUs as status symbols.
>>103238746Nah, you're a fag. A POST code readout is extremely handy for even for extremely basic troubleshooting and memory overclocking (even enabling XMP on some kits). Single LEDs are one step removed from absolutely fucking useless. They cost next to nothing to add either. It's only a "premium" feature because retarded cumstains such as yourself have been successfully gaslit into believing they are.
>>103238173you are being way too generous with Asus about Armory CrateArmory Crate itself is just led bloat, the real problem is the rootkit added to your Windows installs that reminds you to install it, presenting itself as having first-party level integration, all just for telemetry collection
>>103239374POST code said the same thing as LED grid if you had the decoding chart. The POST code indicator was removed because they are overkill outside of debugging/QC. The LED grid does the same thing. It tells you where BIOS is stuck at (CPU, memory, video or boot media). I had SKUs with POST code before. Never thought they that big of a deal in the first place. The chart simply told you where the BIOS was stuck at. Only autistic spastics are losing their composure over its removal.
>>103238746It is insanely useful for ANYONE that has built a system and wondered why the fuck it won't POST, and attempted to reseat/replace every fucking component in an attempt to narrow down what the fault was.A two digit display is all you need, and I have had TWO bullshit computer cases break soldier joints on their power switches, leaving me with no option but to power my system through the on board power button.They're cheap. They're useful. I have gotten worlds more use of out both than I ever have from a second "16x" PCIE slot.
>>103238173oem prebuilt winning more and morestuff off the shelves either has too little or too much and it’s done on purpose since it’s so many brands competing for market share
>>103240462None of these symptoms need "POST code" indicator. You are greatly overestimating its utility.
>>103238173>firmware backdoors from every single vendorgive me a qrd on this
>>103239374It's not called xmp anymore boomer
>>103240621Just paranoid types thinking everything that isn't under GPL banner is laced with backdoors.
>>103240621gigabyte didn't even start checking if their update service(a glorified rootkit installs itself by default) was downloading signed files from their own servers until last yearMSI had the key leak making flashing compromised firmware trivial also keep in mind MSI secureboot was pretty much non-functional for years (said it was enabled but didn't actually block unsigned software)ASUS armory crate is even worse than Gigabytes app center, add a bunch of system services and telemetry and then dig its tendrils in making it nearly impossible to clean it out completely
>>103240871thats just a good thing. fuck this drm shit and fuck the security spook trannies too. you will now go to sleep knowing that there is still people using windows xp on their main pc
>>103238611It's gay and for retarded man children
>>103240871>a glorified rootkit installs itself by defaultNever seen it. l
>>103240871>Have you ever noticed that after a clean Windows installation, a program pops up offering to download the latest driver or firmware for you?No.>Eclypsium recommends users disable the "APP Center Download & Install" feature inside the motherboard's firmware. Wow it's fucking nothing. Once again you're a faggot and should kill yourself.
>>103238262The only people that uses it are engineers with jobs. 99% won’t be used when installing to the computer for the first time and won’t be touched until it’s required.
I want to know why they're getting so stingy with SATA ports. Modern chipsets support upwards of TWELVE by themselves but you're lucky if you even get four of them.
>>103241809It doesn't matter. it costs cents to add it
there's no bloatware on my asrock
>>103238716>when the new guy in through-hole doesn't know what polarity is
>>103241869It is because SATA is getting deprecated on modern desktop builds. Internal optical drive bays are practically gone and internal hard drive bays are starting to go away. Most desktop chassis only have two or three spots. Anybody who needs more than 4 SATA ports on modern build (DIY NAS) are going to get some kind of HBA anyway.
>>103241895It actually costs a dollar or so to implement, assuming you have enough real estate space on the motherboard for it.
>>103242562>Anybody who needs more than 4 SATA ports on modern build (DIY NAS) are going to get some kind of HBA anyway.Yeah, because they give you fuck all SATA ports now. I've got 6 SATA drives in my build. For mATX/mITX, or bargain bin boards I get it, but there's no reason for ATX boards to not still have at least 6 SATA ports.
>>103240871Are you saying mobos update firmware automatically now, or is this only if you install their software on your OS? I have an ancient build so I don't know what modern shit does.
>>103238173>covid allowed companies to raise prices only to never lower them again>firmware backdoors have always been a problem>bloat reinstalls itself on OS that is entirely bloat>quality control is fucked by DEI hiresThe answer, as per usual, is jewish behavior.
>>103242576I'd gladly give up RGBT in exchange
My z690 ud4 is dogshit no buttons no flashback absolutely poo it was basically free with my 13600k used otherwise I wouldn't have bought it piss poor platform overall
>>103238600>The power delivery on most SKUs are overengineered to a comical degree (Literately spec for suicide run-tier overclocking)I remember when we first started getting 8 and 10 core chips from intel though and even 16 core chips from amd. There were a lot of "high end" Z and X series boards that would flat out crash due to shit vrms even without overclocking a 10900k or 3950x. It was insanely bad. Nowadays it's not like that anymore, motherboard vendors wised up. Can't go wrong with any high end board power delivery wise
>>103238173Retarded "gamers" destroyed everything including computers.
>>103240871>keep in mind MSI secureboot was pretty much non-functional for years (said it was enabled but didn't actually block unsigned software)was this fixed? have a roughly year old nas using an msi board, though it's pretty sparse, so probably doesn't matter
>>103243745msi secure boot blocks ventoy so i assume it works as intended
>>103243475specs
>>103242562You're confusing cause with effect again, anon.
>>103245157Wrong, the DIY and OEM markets aren't getting internal HDDs anymore for their desktop builds. They have been opting for solid-state media and prefer it in the M.2 form factor. More and more internal HDD volume is coming from HPC/datacenter customers which are using non-desktop chassis for their needs.
>>103244631gamers basically made everything 50% because they don't care if they're ripped off as long as things look cool, and by gamers, I mean social media faggots who take pictures of their overpriced computers for cred instead of basement dwelling nerds that actually care
>>103242606There's finite bandwidth on PCHs on either platform. It is being allocated for more USB ports or M.2 slot.This isn't the 2000s into early 2010s anymore. Internal HDD bays have been downsizing on most desktop chassis. A few SKUs forgo them completely. It is flowing the same pattern what befell 5 1/4" bays once internal optical drives became obsolete for most use cases.
>>103238173i want a coreboot mainboard with a sane look not those toddler toy looking boardsthey'll never exist
>>103242691>>quality control is fucked by DEI hiresDidn't occur, as vast majority of your motherboards are made in China/Taiwan. QC is actually more consistent now on the hardware side. OTOH the QC on the BIOS/firmware is still a mixed bag.
>>103246365They exist anon, you are just looking in the wrong section.
>>103238173The removal of features from the mid range is insane, over the years I've had 3 strix motherboards paired with>I7 920>I7-4790k>5900xIt's crazy how the quality went down, the amount of extra stuff in the box went from plenty to zero and even the on board feature went down. The first mobo had two la ports and a code display for errors. The last one is a joke. To reach the same amount of features I have to get the very best for over $1000.
>>103238173I do not know the exact reason. EVGA boards used to be considered ridiculously overbuilt and overpriced. Once they left the market every single board manufacturer raised prices but not build quality. it is almost as if EVGA kept some sort of influence on the market.
>>103242688There's an option in the motherboard BIOS that automatically downloads the latest board-related drivers from the manufacturer's servers.This BIOS option is almost always enabled by default on newer boards.
>>103246385huh, it doesonly one exists tho, msi pro z690
>>103238577>>103238600>>103246377This is true, board build quality has never been better, a modest B650M HDV-M.2 can handle Ryzen 9 CPUs at AMD's specified stock performance.Issues arise from a few production batches, but it's not a deliberate attempt to screw over customers.The cost has risen because these manufacturers have figured out people a long time ago. They know how to milk early adopters dry.If you're patient and don't need immediate performance improvements, you can wait until the higher-end boards are significantly discounted.This doesn't apply to high-end SKUs with limited production.
>>103246334That "bandwidth" can only go to sata ports or a handful of pcie lanes that they aren't going to utilized anyway.That's honestly why people are questioning the decision when it comes to sata. The only boards that expose or make use of all the available resources on a given platform are $500-600, anything cheaper leaves a lot of stuff unused. They aren't in dire need of those few pcie lanes from sacrificing sata, there is no harm in adding those ports beyond the cost of the ports and you cannot tell me those ports are such a financial burden.>inb4 muh average gaymer usecase doesn't use sataThat was never the point of DIY is to fit squarely into one use case
>>103246520Don't buy GAYMER boards if you're going to bitch about their features.
>>103246549Damn near all boards are marketed to gamers.That's not supposed to matter anyway, your kind specifically told everyone to ignore the branding when everything was being rebranded in some fashion to appeal to gaymers, that it would have no affect on motherboard features.
>>103239039>Where the fuck did splitting 16x PCIE lanes to two 16x physical slots at 8 lanes each go?It's still a thing on some mobos, my X670E board can split lanes to 2 PCIe 5.0 8x slots. I think this feature in particular isn't common anymore because there's not much use for it. Back in the olden days this was potentially useful for the (still rare even then) SLI/CF setups that used 2 graphics cards, so at least the "better" mobos wanted to have support for that stuff. Nowadays SLI and CF no longer exist, so what use case do consumer products have for 2 PCIe 8x cards? The only thing that really needs that much bandwidth is the graphics card but again, there's no real reason to have 2 of those. You could say it's useful for storage, but mobos tend to come with enough m.2 slots for consumers anyway so that's not really a thing either.
>>103246583>Damn near all boards are marketed to gamers.>That's not supposed to matter anywayBuy a proper workstation board and stfu about features literally most gamers don't give a fuck about.Post code LEDs and clear CMOS buttons matter more for these boards than MUH MORE SAETAH.It's 2024.
prease understandu, inflation you know
>>103246520SATA isn't being used widely anymore in the vast majority of current desktop builds. Most and more DIY-types are forging internal HDDs are just opting to get some kind of NAS for that or an external HDD enclosure using USB or something as fancy as thunderbolt.Time changes and vendors are going with the wind. It isn't like a dedicated HBA is that expenisve there plenty of lightly used decommissioned SAS units (can use SATA BTW) out on the market.
>>103246621A workstation board is unnecessaryI won't concede this until Intel and AMD drop sata from chipsets but until then IDK why industry defenders see exposing all sata available as such a huge deal.Asrock put 8 sata on a fucking LN2 OCing board and an insane amount of PCIe slots as it otherwise didn't take away from its use as an OCing board and made it more useful outside of its use case.For some reason this philosophy because "reasons"
>>103246417Nah, it remain the same. The difference is the pricing. Everything simply has gone up plus you have whales driving up meme-tier SKUs.
>>103246800There is a finite amount bandwidth and I/O connectivity on the PCH on desktop platform. You want more SATA ports, USB ports, other peripherals and M.2 slots with that finite pool? The issue that SATA is being depreciated en mass on the DYI/OEM market. Most users these days who opt for more than four SATA devices are building a NAS they are likely getting some kind of dedicated HBA for that.
>>103246800>I won't concede thisBoard manufacturers literally couldn't give less of a fuck about people like you.They don't need your "business", which is probably a sub $400 board that will last 6~8 years.Keep deluding yourself that your preference matters enough in a mass-production good.
>>103238577>The USD has weaken plus the massive trade trade deficit with Taiwan/China.Hope you're all going to enjoy getting another 20%-60% slapped on the prices once the tariffs kick in : (
>>103240871Jesus christ, which boards can I buy these days? I miss the good old days.
>>103246512^^^^ThisJust look at the flood for affordable Z690 boards that can drive any Alder Lake/Raptor Lake SKU out there.B650 boards are about to undergo the same thing once B860 SKUs start appearing in 2025.
>>103246838The IO that sata takes can only go to sata or 2 pcie lanes, most boards don't use every drop of what's available to need those 2 lanes for anything, they squander then most of the time.>>103246848They don't give a fuck about you yet here you are
>>103246919I'm not the one acting like a child for not having access to 8 SATA ports in a low/mid tier GAYMEN motherboard. Know your place.
>>103238173I don't know, but when I built my current PC last year and found out Assrock is good now and ASUS boards explode I was like oh shit how did that happen lmao
>>103246919They use the bandwidth for more USB ports on the back or front-panel ports.There finite amount of bandwidth and wiring for it plus real estate space on the board itself. Modern SKUs often put in some kind of "EZ-release" latches in its place since SATA tend to stand right front of main PCIe slot which house massive GPU boards that tend to be PITA to removed from just using the normal PCIe slot clip.
>>103246948You have no place to talk down lolPut up or shut up>>103246953To use the bandwidth for USB requires a USB chipset to do so.Its not as simple as reconfiguring pins to be USB instead of SATA
>>103246948>not having access to 8 SATA ports in a low/mid tier GAYMEN motherboardOriginal anon here. I wasn't talking about budget boards, but there's zero reason a $300+ ATX board shouldn't have at least 6. You're all acting like 2.5" SSD aren't still incredibly common. Even most SFF cases can fit 3-4 of them.
>>103247063>Put up or shut upFollow your own advice you dumb fuck moron.Board manufacturers started adding postcodes and clear CMOS buttons to cheaper boards ahead of your little needs.Most of the kids never even need those two features. That's how low-priority of an issue this is.>>103247093People like you and the other guy don't move the needle, it's that simple.The cost savings, however little per unit on a mass production board, is worth losing the business of the likes of yours.Considering the expected duration ownership, board manufacturers don't even see a $40 annualized profit per unit on most of these SKUs.
>>103246621gamers fucking up the prices by buying everything on credit (and not giving a fuck about how good or bad shit is) fucked the pricing on every computer componentit is the destruction of the commons by retards
>>103247148>People like you and the other guy don't move the needle, it's that simple.I know friend, I know. That post was mainly me screaming into the void after seeing a $1300 motherboard with 4 SATA ports.
>>103247148>don't even see a $40 annualized profit per unit on most of these SKUsAnd you know this how?If your on the inside and dealing with an actual industry shill that would explain a lot of the fervor of your posts
>>103247377Because you don't just consider the BOM when factoring in the overall cost and investment needed to produce and support a motherboard.Some B350 and X370 boards are still getting BIOS & driver updates, which costs development & testing time.Board manufacturers aren't selling $300~400 models at a 50% margin all things considered. If they were, the likes of EVGA and many other AIBs would be competing in this segment.It doesn't take a brite lite to do the math to arrive at the less than $40 annualized unit margin if the consumer is expected to own the product for the next 6~8 years.You're the exception.The longer ownership & support period is also a reason why motherboard prices have risen over time. The extended support cycle is priced in.
>>103247504So it's even worseLiteral ass pulling and your not even being paid.Anons' come in here hoping for some actual inside baseball and all of it is heresy nonsense from people who apparently don't have a stake in the industry but is willing to guess finances of said industry to try to prove no one is being screwed and margins are just so low.This doesn't help your case really. Either you know something and there is some truth or your making shit up which makes people more suspicious of these companies.
