>year 2024>99% of device components still use 12v DC are we forever stuck in this converter inefficiency? i bet atleast half of the world electricity is just lost to heat or inefficiency
What makes 12VDC so based?
>>103288003>inefficiencyAt least yuropoors can boil their water 30 seconds quicker with their 240V, which matters when your energy prices are through the roof.
my sperm is wasted because i have no gf
>>103288003>Proprietarism.Yeah. We should totally have 3.5, 4, 5, 6, 7.8, 8, 10 Volts, etc. with different amps as well. If you dare plugging in a voltage regulator in between good thing we don't tell you the amps cause we also use totally different resistors and capacitors inside! So your device will be destroyed slowly.
>>103288003Like the fucktard who keeps posting "hurr durr everything is just a steam turbine", you are completely free to invent something more efficient.If you won't (like the aforementioned fucktard), then sit down and shut the fuck up.
DC power delivered directly to the home
>itt: children with zero electrical or even physics knowledge quite predictably don't understand why power grids are high voltage ac
>>103288447Because Edison lost.
>>103288003Yes, just like we're forever stuck with boiling water for electricity generation.
>>103288003explain yourself why is 12v inefficient and what is the alternative going to be that will work with old devices?
>>103288003Anon, if we made everything 400V / 16A three phase by default, it would affect material/weight efficiency a lot even if energy efficiency might eventually be pretty good.
>>103288418>Milkman delivers batteries to you, instead of you delivering battery to the milkman for sleeping with your wife
Why isn't 24V more widespreadAnd why do laptop chargers use 19V
>>103289147>Why isn't 24V more widespreadit is widespread.cost
>>103288003>are we forever stuck in this converter inefficiency?converters are stupid efficient now>i bet atleast half of the world electricity is just lost to heat or inefficiencyway more is lost in kv towers than fucking household ac-dc smps>>103288096holy rent fucking free
>>103288003>i bet atleast half of the world electricity is just lost to heat or inefficiencyLast I looked it's around 75-80% of all electricity is lost before it is consumed. Transmission losses are a bitch.
>>103288418https://youtu.be/Zez2r1RPpWY
>>103288447Because it was easier to step up/down. That's it.
>>103288096>which matters when your energy prices are through the roofretard!
>>103288003>are we forever stuck in this converter inefficiency?maybe this would be a concern back in the day before everything started using switch mode power supplies
>>103288096how does boiling water faster have anything to do with energy prices?they boil twice as fast because they use twice as much power, the total energy used is the same
>>103289147>why 19VTo stay under some kind of law regulation that starts at 20V iirc.
>>103288003what I find really fucking stupid is having to convert energy from solar panels to AC to then convert back to DC in the device. why not make every device that actually uses DC have a DC power entry?
>>103291572Simplicity actually.Residental solar has standardized around 120V AC as a common bus voltage. Individual panels produce 120V AC with micro inverters, battery storage takes 120V AC in and outputs 120V ACAC wiring is well understood by most electricians, high voltage DC takes different considerations. It also allows easy expansion and replacements of components in the system with a common bus voltage.
>>103288096> which matters when your energy prices are through the roof.Retarded retard
>>103291572If a device has a switched mode power supply, you can feed it raw DC directly from the panels.
>>103288090Because it proves white people don't care about menial shit that doesn't matter and is clearly a distraction from other things that are more important.
>>103291572>why not make every device that actually uses DC have a DC power entry?because we live in a world of AC. you could have a direct DC connection but the cost of such a setup would be insane. it's far cheaper to just use an inverter to covert to AC and rely on devices to covert to DC if needed via their power supplies.
>>103291711>>103291772>>103291839I guess I got another, more definitive answer after thinking about it: according to some calculator, using the same cable, a #10 AWG, 30ft cable would lose like 5% of the energy when using DC current vs something like 0.2% when using AC.
>>103288003220V wires more expensive
>>10328800348v electronics will make their way from Tesla car, since they're moving towards that architecture.
>>103291572You want the government to build an entirely new alternate electric grid all over the country just for DC transmission?>>103293217That can't be right. DC is actually more efficient than AC when it comes to power transmission
>>103291369>To stay under some kind of law regulation that starts at 20V iirc.I'm not sure about 19v but I'm pretty sure that's true of 48v because osha deem anything over 50v a shock hazard.Solar stuff is largely 48v but gradually swapping to hundreds of volts, which makes sense since its closer matched to the power from the solar strings and doesn't require ultra thick cables around the batteries.
For anyone interested, there are is / are high voltage dc transmission links.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current
>>103289288>way more is lost in kv towers than fucking household ac-dc smps>>103289579>Last I looked it's around 75-80% of all electricity is lost before it is consumed. Transmission losses are a bitchTransmission lines only lose a few percent of the energy; something like 2%.Huge amounts are lost generating it due the physical limitations of the steam turbine process; regardless of which fuel is used to produce the steam. The same way all combustion engines are only about 50% fuel efficient maximum. The majority of cars convert more than 50% of the fuel burnt directly to waste heat.
>>103288003You think that's bad? Look at trailer/vehicle power. People buy DC->AC inverters just to plug in their AC appliances that convert it back to DC again.You can get away with straight DC->DC on small solar setups which can be kinda comfy but you'll never power a whole house on DC alone.
>>103288003What the hell are you on about? Components generally use 3V3 while devices usually just do USB-PD nowadays where 12V is only an optional option (for example the iPhone will do 9V and the Steam Deck will do 15V)
>>103294016I looked it up. The 20Vdc apparently is from the European power supply safety standard IEC60950-1. But i don't have the paper so can't confirm further.
you cabt even name an electronic appliance that uses 12 volts without lookibg it up. stick to foobar.
Constant Voltage is cringe, be it alternating or direct. That's why when I built my off grid home I wired everything to supply/receive DC constant 1A current at whatever voltage is needed by device to get it to 1A. Works way better because now low power things are too low voltage to shock you.But craziest thing is 12A 240V AC @ no 60Hz but 600Hz it too fast to affect myocyte depolarization, or in laymen's terms, technical debt kills 100s of people a year for no reason.
>>103294165It's like 40% for petrol, 50% for diesel, and you can get over 60% with gas turbines and really good diesels. Really good diesels are still the most efficient, but they dont scale as well as a turbine.
>>103293796Yes, DC is more efficient. AC spends some amount of time at 0V after all. Voltage-matched, DC is better.
>>103293796>You want the government to build an entirely new alternate electric grid all over the country just for DC transmission?no, you retard. I want devices to have two inputs: the one for AC that all devices already have, and another one that takes DC from solar panels (at some standard voltage. like, 12V, 20V or something)>That can't be right. DC is actually more efficient than AC when it comes to power transmissionI might have used the calculator wrongly, maybe. I used 8A as input current, and I don't remember the voltage I used for DC but for AC I used 220V
>>103294831It's not the zero crossings. The AC rms voltage is the same as for DC so the power transfer is also the same.But AC has the skin effect which reduces the effective conductor thickness so it has more resistance so less power transfer.
>>103293796>DC is actually more efficient than ACit's not. this is part of the reason why edison's DC system in US got BTFO.
>>103294897>and another one that takes DC from solar panels to power what exactly? every device i can think of that uses electricity and needs DC will use a power supply to convert from AC. we solved these problems over a century ago yet here you are still thinking it's the 1800s.
>>103294976No. Back then you could not distribute DC over large distances, only local. With AC you can transform up and down to overcome distances. This is why it won.
>>103294976Common misconception, it's the up/down voltage converters that had differences in efficiency, not the power itself. 10,000V DC -> 10V DC was hard to do (in the 60s) but with AC it was easy. Now-a-days it's all easy.
>>103294993TVs, laptops, computers, LED bulbs... anything that doesn't require too much power or takes advantage of AC
>>103291711>Individual panels produce 120V AC with micro invertersi've never heard of thismy recent solar roof installation has ~380VDC coming down from the panels into an inverter
>>103293563actually it's the other way around, given the same power, higher voltage wires cost /less/, because they require less copperhigher voltage needs more insulation (plastic), while higher amps needs more conductor (copper), copper is more expensive than plasticto reduce the amps needed for a particular power, you increase the voltagegiven the same gauge wire, my 240v system can deliver twice the power as a 120v system. like 1200W at 120V is 10A, while 2400W at 240W is also 10A, both require the same wire that can handle 10A
>>103288090Most ships use 24 VDC for most of the components (GMDSS, diesel engine requires it to turn the starters, etc). So every ship has extra battery banks for it, each battery being a 12VDC battery. Also, they are quite heavy and it's a pain to move then from and to tugboats.
>>103289147>Why isn't 24V more widespreadThey are. Literally every diesel engine ship have banks of 24VDC (which is a pair of 2 12 VDC battery in series).
>>103288102i eat mine to recycle the nutrientsi learned it from chris chan and i think it's one of her more intelligent ideas
>>103291572Just wait a few more years. Thanks to advance of power system, it keeps getting cheaper for transmission lines to be DC (the expensive part is converting from and to AC, look how much area it covers and how many filters it needs to remove all those harmonics).
>>103288096are you genuinely this retarded or just pretending to be?
>>103293217The biggest problem in transmission lines is inductance. With AC you have self inductance and mutual inductance (one phase creates inductance to itself and also to other phases). Since the middle cable suffer more mutual inductance, cables are transposed every few kms. See pic related.
>>103294950>it has more resistanceNot the problem for transmission lines. They can use even 8 cables in parallels per phase (which is something you can find) since resistance goes down in parallel or even increase the cable's diameter. The real problem is inductance.
>>103295131It would need a DC-DC converter too, though. Just because it uses DC inside it doesn't mean any value of DC.
>>103288003Moron.>>103288300Advanced moronism.>>103288447/thread
>>103294776>Muh 1A constant current the everythingThat's not how electronics / electrical appliances work.
>>103294776>no 60Hz but 600Hzyea ok we'll just spin turbines at 36,000RPM instead of 3,600RPM
I wish we had 48v DC mains. That would be based.
>>103289588dank
>>103297121for a small off-grid system like a caravan that would do well enough, but that would really limit how much power you can deliver, for several reasons, such as needing much thicker wire, losing more power over the same distance of cable due to voltage drop, etcideally you want to keep the voltage as high as you can until the last moment, which is what we already do, it keep transmission losses and wire sizes down
>>10328800312V is a compromise between copper losses and being close enough to destination voltages they can be efficiently bucked.
>>103297595>ideally you want to keep the voltage as high as you can until the last momentThen you start needing transformers for conversion. Getting high efficiency and fast response is harder with transformers.
