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LXQt is officially the best DE
>Standard desktop layout, familiar to Windows users, unlike GNOME
>So lightweight that it will run on a toaster
>Just works without krashes
>Allows for customisation if you want it

Desktop folders/shortcuts, or put everything in the Home folder and leave the desktop empty?

>>108203158
>no official wm, janky with all the third party wms
Biggest drawback.

>>108203166
LXQt + Openbox just works for me

>>108203158
lxqt made me test out openbox with tint2

>>108203158
KDE for me, but options are always good.

>>108203158
KDE Plasma is officially the best DE buddy, shipped on a commercial product that has sold millions.

Lightweight distro for AMD K7 CPU with 512MB of RAM? Slackware XFCE?

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What's the most/best way to get youtube thumbnail to turn into album cover when downloading from it?
>inb4 use FLAC
It's podcast series, the thumbnails are not squares like it should which trigger me a little.

>>108203257
I would stay away from xfce, it's not that light any longer. However I don't remember any recommendations about lightweight distros, maybe check older threads or check out the 'desktop' thread many there seem to use really small amounts of installed ram.

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>>108203141
cmd ln entry for downloading all pomf links in a page? please? so, dload all better call sal file?

>>108203250
don't beg people to use your desktop environment, it's unbecoming.
gnome btw.

I thought openSUSE was supposed to be the premier KDE distro.
But it doesn't come with the new Plasma 6.6 wallpapers?

>>108203337
why would you even think that?

>>108203370
It's all I hear about that OS. Anyway Plasma is grossing me out as expected so I'm probably gonna switch back to GNOME.

>gnome
lol
Plasma won, simple as.

>>108203377
arch is pretty much the only distro that doesn't fuck with upstream.

>>108203377
And I've never, ever heard that about it. I also never have heard it recommended as a distro for plasma.

>>108203388
opensuse is a solid alternative to arch if you want a rolling distro that wipes your ass.

Mint Cinnamon is actually really fucking good.

>>108203377
The only people who talk about OpenSUSE are Germans

hello fellas
I got a niche Chinese gayming wireless mouse and I'm sick of guessing its battery
I checked upower and HIDRAWs and there's nothing directly exposing its battery level
any way to write a simple indicator that won't take me a full weekend and have me playing around with bits and bytes and all that shit?

>>108203360
So, I made an udev rule to hide the zfs_member mount point. It worked.

>>108203435
ask GrokGPT

>>108203383
Yeah I ran Arch for ages, but I don't wanna deal with it anymore. AUR is a nightmare. And I like how TW has built in snapshot rollback. I'm gonna reinstall TW with GNOME and banish this KDE nonsense from my system for good.

>>108203257
Bodhi, Q4OS+Trinity, any distro with openbox or icewm

>>108203425
Even Germans don't talk about it

>>108203158
i did use it but after a few months of tiling WM use (sway) idgaf anymore
tiling wms are so quick to get shit done
just press buttons nigga

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noob here.
CachyOS was funky on install so I ended up with this.
Now if I understand correctly, the snapper thing is not versioning my user files (like in Download, which is great), but I'm still wondering: in case of a big fuckup, will this partition setup prevent me from reinstalling easily without loosing my files ? If so what should I do ?

>>108203450
Wondering now how would I boot a ZFS snapshot in case of emergency? Should I just configure daily snapshot cron job and then if shit hits the fan I just replace the zpool root with the snapshot, meaning I wouldn't have to do anything to the bootloader it would just work but it would destroy all data after the snapshot?

>>108203250
>shipped on a commercial product that has sold millions.
you've heard of MS windows? Shipping on a commercial product is no sign of quality whatsoever.

>>108203543
If your files are important you should have a backup of them on a different drive

>>108203543
You should have separate partitions
>root / (max 100GB)
>/home/ (50GB is plenty)
>and a separate 'work' partition if you will (everything else)
Having one gigantic / is not that wise. I don't know if you can resize btrfs safely or not. But do whatever you want to do.

>>108203558
>>108203565
ty. Should've done that from the start but I couldnt. how well.

>>108203579
Everything is fine as long you have all of your important files intact. So no damage done (yet).

>>108203565
>Having one gigantic / is not that wise.
Why?

>>108203588
reading a bit on that, it seems that nowadays with luks and btrfs, we can use subvolumes, which I have. I'm not sure how that tracks with "if I wanted to change distro without fucking up my other files" for examples.
Also I have backup for important files, it's more like a "I wouldn't want to loose my latest downloads and game saves" inconvenience I guess.

>>108203598
I don't argue with retards.

>>108203565
>/home/ (50GB is plenty)
are you serious? I have 3.0T in there.

>install plasma
>hideous animations
>install gnome
>can't tweak touchpad scroll speed
why is linux eternally like this

>>108203672
I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely asking because I'm a total beginner.

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>>108203684
maybe stop being autist

>>108203598
There is no problem whatsoever with it.

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>>108203141
Debian wins, but nowadays i prefer Kubuntu for desktop.

>>108203257
>Slackware + LXQt
FTFY

>>108203684
Imagine if there were desktop agnostic ways to configure your input devices and you weren't living in a Wayland hellscape...

>>108203730
Yeah that will be nice. I'm just going to have to get used to fast scrolling on GNOME because KDE is pure hell.

>>108203598
It's not. Don't listen to this retard >>108203565. There's no reason why you should have a separate /home partition and a limited root partition. You're just shooting yourself in the foot in the long run and you'll end up having to do gymnastics with partitioning or symbolic linking at some point.
It's the same reason why using a swap partition is not recommended over using a swap file. It's just a cumbersome way of doing things.

Just have everything in / aside from /boot. There's a reason why that is a default in every single distro.

>>108203752
>>108203598
If it's btrfs you only need to make subvolumes; making entire partitions is outdated

>>108203748
Unless you're on a bleeding edge distro where they'll be dropping support soon or something in your setup strongly benefits from Wayland you could just switch to X11 for now. Synaptics is also a much more configurable touchpad driver than libinput.

Is it safe to add a 'Plus' sign to folders and file names?
Examples:
>/home/anon/Documents/Linux+/TerminalCommands.pdf
>ReactionImage+.jpg
It seems to work on linux, but is there any risk of the data/contents getting corrupted in the future, or maybe this kind of format is unreadable on older operating systems or Windows? Reason I'm asking is because I want to distinguish a folder on my OS drive from a folder on my external storage drive, but I want to have the same name, but with a + sign to the version on the storage drive.

Are there any more codecs/packages i should install on fedora after enabling rpmfusion?

>>108203565
>>108203672
You don't understand BTRFS if you genuinely think that. You can treat the subvolumes like different partitions so even if you decide to dual boot multiple Linux distros you just simple install to a different root subvolume and mount your existing home subvolume.

>>108203901
should be safe on linux, I dunno about other OS
Generally, weird characters in filenames may trip up scripts and commands, which is the main issue you could face on linux.

>>108203543
That is normal, the tool you're using is not showing the actual disk layout.
BTRFS doesn't require partitions so there isn't much point in dividing the disk into many separate partitions. I don't know how you'd go about installing various distros with btrfs subvolumes (which is a pretty safe bet that you will have, given that you have snapper), it's pretty easy on Arch so I assume it'd be easy to mount your subvolumes correctly on other stuff too.

Going to install Debian later today
Should I use KDE or XFCE?

>>108203901
It's not one of

< > : " / \ | ? *

or a control character, so it shouldn't cause problems with Windows. Linux file names can be anything except NUL. The only thing you can do which might cause problems without typing escape sequences is have file names beginning with -

>>108204097
>>108204046
>>108203752
okay that actually made sense and convinced me and I also asked an AI, which can be retarded I know but fuck if it has helped me a lot with linux problems so far (and to learn too).

>>108203909
dnf list '*-freeworld'
and see if any of those are pertinent to things you have installed. Following the rpmfusion instructions should bring in most of what matters.

I'm trying to install Fedora KDE to try Linux but I'm unable to install it.
I have Windows 10 on a M2 SSD with its EFI partition on the same disk. I also have a separate SATA SSD I want to install Fedora on. I'm using Ventoy to load up Fedora's live USB.
I cleaned the SATA SSD and set the installer to install it as follows:
>root (/) on btrfs partition on SATA SSD
>EFI (/boot/EFI) on the same EFI partition of windows on the M2 SSD
> Boot (/boot) on ext4 partition on SATA SSD
When I proceed to install, it completes storage setup, software install and boot loader install but fails when trying to save initramfs and config files:
> The installer cannot continue did to a critical error: installation of the system failed: storing configuration files and kickstarts
>Error detail: org.fedoraprojecy.anaconda.error: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'path'
I've been using google, chatgpt and gemini to guide me but I'm stuck here. What should I do to solve this problem?
Also, now when selecting boot device I have a ghost Fedora boot beside Windows Boot Manager and USB's UEFI. It doesn't go away with "sudo efibootmgr -b <number> -B". How do I fix it?

Just wanted to says that after 32 years using windows (and Dos before that lol), with maybe twice trying to switch to ubuntu 15 years ago or something, finally having switched to linux for good for a week now feels fucking great, everything is smooth, everything is working as expected, I only had to input like 20 commands that I wasn't sure weren't gonna break the whole computer, only had to use 4 different package manager or whatever, Fusion is still half broken visually, VR is having random slowdowns, but OVERALL it's fucking greeaattt got damn, so polished, without all the windows shit, and sooooo much more configurable down to the tiniest preference. Thanks guys, I probably could've done it without you, in fact you didn't help much, but that's a good thing then, that means that it's kind of working out of the box yay !

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How do I update GRUB using Arch Live CD?

>>108204281
Mount your offline system's root and chroot into it, then just update the GRUB files with pacman.

>>108204205
Just to be clear, I've read the fedora forum post about deleting subvolumes but using storage editor of the installer, I can't delete the top-level subvolume of the btrfs partition so I'm assuming its core part of it.
Also, during Installation Method, I'm choosing Mount point assignment. Is this correct?

>>108204303
why are you doing any of that in the first place?
just use the default installation. give fedora the drive and let it do the rest.
fyi using ventoy can lead to issues, and some disk creators can lead to issues too. use balena etcher.

>>108204324
ventoy is a black box, running binary blobs. do not trust it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventoy#Concerns_over_software_security_and_validity_of_open_source_claim

>>108204375
he wants to keep his windows, you think he's worried about binary blobs?

>>108204324
>>108204375
Alright, switching to Etcher.
>why are you doing any of that in the first place?
Because I read somewhere that having two EFI partitions is not good when dual booting and that I should point Fedora's EFI to the existing one.
When running the installer, I select the M2 and SATA SSDs and get the option to "Share disk between operating system" but at the end, when reviewing options, it says it's going to format the EFI partition, so I stepped back before it potentially fucked Windows Boot Manager.
Should I instead point solely to the SATA SSD and select "use whole disk"?

>>108204404
>Should I instead point solely to the SATA SSD and select "use whole disk"?
pretty much.
then you can start whichever system you want with your bios's boot manager.
you can always install grub on both disks if you want too and use it to load windows.

Holy shit, I just switched from the pajeetware that is davfs2 to rclone mount and it's so much better it is absurd that some people still recommend davfs2.

>>108204447
Alright, I believe it worked. At least the installer says so. However, when I open the boot device selection, it has:
>Windows Boot Manager (M2 SSD)
>Fedora (SATA)
>Fedora (SATA)
>Fedora (M2) I believe this is the ghost boot left over the failed installation, it reappears even when I delete using efibootmgr.
Did I mess up or are the two Fedora options on the intended disk the same thing?

>>108204568
dunno. my best guess is that fedora itself to both disks so the M2 is actually not the leftover.

>>108203250
>>108203382
>*krashes*

>>108204603
Yeah, it's weird but I think the three options might point to the same thing. I selected the first one in the SATA, updated the system and restarted to install the updates but instead of selecting the same boot option, I selected the second one and it's now installing the updates normally. I'll try the one on M2 after it finishes the updates.
That said, is there some essential step I should do but I'm missing? I'm going to enable flatpak, rpm fusion and install snapper+btrfs assistant

>>108204641
>I'm going to enable flatpak, rpm fusion and install snapper+btrfs assistant
sounds like you're overprepared, make sure you install the non free ffpmeg codecs.
can't help you much further. i don't use kde.

>>108204665
>>108204641
sudo dnf swap ffmpeg-free ffmpeg --allowerasing
problem with fedora is by default they only ship FREE software which is problematic for codecs as it causes problems with shit like youtube.

using quickshell or any if the projects derived from it should be banned cause you just know some COMPLETE ASSHOLE is going to use it to make liquid glass and liquid glass SHOULD BE FUCKING ILLEGAL

>>108204615
Works on my machine :^)

>>108203257
Slackware + Fvwm.

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>>108203250
The only thing it's best at is being worse than gnome with UX by having nested submenus inside a hamburger menu button.

>>108203383
Sometimes defaults should be changed by downstream when the defaults really suck and upstream refuses to change them.

>gnometards still butt blasted at Plasma winning

>>108203262
yt-dlp has an option --embed-thumbnail but you might need some other packages installed
check the manpage and just do a search for --embed-thumbnail

>>108203684
Use one of the wlroots wayland compositors with dankshell or some other quickshell based config.

>>108204205
I don't know why its recommended to have a separate /boot partition when grub can read btrfs partitions perfectly fine.

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>>108205769
>Uses hamburger menu
>Complains about the hamburger instead of changing it to use a menubar
You are aware you don't have to use it that way, right?

>>108204375
>using wikipedia as a source
You know those binary blobs are just basic tools that have instructions on how to build them right?
https://github.com/ventoy/Ventoy/issues/3224

so i take it that more people own amd gpu than nvidia gpu in these threads?

>>108205818
I thought kde had good defaults ootb that didn't require any custom changes?

>>108204729
What are you talking about?

>>108205852
They changed to the hamburger menu because it's easier for touch screens. If you're not an iTouch fag trying to run Linux on your goonpad then a menubar is a much better default.

Is it fine to Ubuntu 16.04 in 2026? It has extended security for a few more months. I really don't like the newer kernel and nouveau regressions freezing the laptop.

>>108205848
More people own an AMD GPU than an nVidia GPU in general since AMD exists on integrated graphics too. Actually Intel is the most popular GPU vendor with around 66% of x86 devices using Intel iGPUs.

When will that network manager applet thing fix the bug where you are just about to select the wifi network but then it refreshes and closes the menu?

>>108205868
It's fine. Especially if you use Flatpak or some manual sandboxing. At least for your web browser since that's where you're most likely to get pwned.

>>108205882
Well snap install firefox brings in the latest Firefox from Mozilla. I think only version 88 is available via apt, which I thought they had covered everything in main/universe for security. Will have to upgrade to 18.04 soon.

>>108205858
The hamburger menu would be fine if settings wasnt split into its own submenu instead of the five options being merged into one window

>>108205882
The flatpak sandbox breaks the sandbox in chrome and firefox and there might be new kernel features that flatpak takes advantage of which don't exist in whatever 16.04 uses... which would be like... kernel 4.xx

>>108205906
They don't even ship Firefox via APT anymore in Ubuntu. The APT package is a fake package that downloads and installs the Snap.

You need to add Mozilla's APT repository:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-linux#w_install-firefox-deb-package-for-debian-based-distributions-recommended

Or use the Mozilla Team PPA if you want something maintained by the Ubuntu Firefox maintainers and built on top of Ubuntu with their compiler and toolchain, etc.
https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ubuntu/ppa

>>108205910
I'm pretty sure they have to split it in case someone has a screen where it would get cut off and then you have to scroll the menu which results in an even worse UX.

>>108205934
It would've just been extra tabs in the main configure window

>>108205925
It says the snap is maintained by Mozilla. Snaps are sandboxed I thought. Using their own repository means no sandboxing of the entire process.

>>108205982
The browser itself has sandboxing and you can also use an AppArmor profile so it's not entirely unsandboxed, but yes, isolating your browser from the rest of your filesystem is obviously going to result in better security.

>>108204568
In case someone finds it later, I used "sudo efibootmgr -v" to identify a shimx64.efi and a shim.efi0000424f file on the SATA, with another shim.efi0000424f on the M2.
Then I used:
>sudo mkdir -p /mnt/winefi
>sudo mount /dev/<volume identified using "lsblk -f">/mnt/winefi
Checking it with ls command I found "boot fedora microsoft". Then I deleted the fedora boot with:
>sudo rm -r /mnt/winefi/EFI/fedora
On the next reboot the Fedora (M2) was gone.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find a way to safely delete the shim.efi0000424f on SATA.

>>108205906
That's ok, use the Snap version then. Either Snap or Flatpak will be much better than using apt applications. If you have anything installed as an apt package that has access to internet replace it with a Snap/Flatpak version.

>>108205920
The browser sandbox is irrelevant to OS security. The idea isn't to protect your tab data from being hijacked by malicious websites, the idea is to not get your OS infected by a malicious website.
You can mitigate most in-browser risks by having uBlock Origin blocking malicious websites, by blocking JS by default and enabling it only on trusted websites, and by not storing your passwords in your web browser.

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Well I gave PikaOS a quick try because on paper having a gaming tweaked distro that focuses on ease of use but based on Debian instead of Arch/Fedora seems very neat and also the ratings on Distrowatch made it seem like almost everyone is happy with it. Right of the bat it was not saving some of my settings (I set up night light and mouse speed for example and they did not survive a reboot) and also when I try to remove kdeconnect which gives me massive problems so I remove it on every distro it wants to also removed this dumb ass metapackage which will likely break stuff so hard pass.

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I need your help designing a script to gracefully crop audio from YouTube, with a fade out effect in the end so there isn't an ugly unnatural cut; I know if ffmpeg has the buffer it can do anything to it, but the afade filter requires reenconding THE WHOLE FILE, which isn't ideal since it rots the already low YouTube quality.
>use case? Just download albums from SS
There're many things no one else but YouTube has, like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-fvnllduBQ
If you pay attention, the thing loops around 36:08 but the video lasts 2 hours.
>use case? Just don't listen slop
Not every long YouTube video is AI slop. Also some AI slop works as background noise and is inexpensive to archive so why not. Anyways, this is the piece of shit I cobbled together:

#!/usr/bin/env bash
set -euo pipefail

STAMP=$(echo "$3" | awk -F: '{ total_sec = ($1 * 60 + $2) - 6; print total_sec }')
yt-dlp -f 'bestaudio' --external-downloader ffmpeg --external-downloader-args "ffmpeg_i:-ss $2"  --external-downloader-args "ffmpeg_o: -t "$3" -c:a libopus -b:a 96k -af 'afade=t=out:st=$STAMP:d=6' -f opus" -o "%(uploader)s - %(title)s [%(id)s].opus" "$1"

Any idea of how to achieve this?

>>108206193
PikaOS is a great name for a computer os in the pokemon world.

>>108206193
>and also when I try to remove kdeconnect which gives me massive problems so I remove it on every distro it wants to also removed this dumb ass metapackage which will likely break stuff so hard pass.
If pika-kde-desktop is a metapackage then removing it won't break anything, just make sure to remark the listed packages as manual so they don't get autoremoved.

Check what files are owned by the pika-kde-desktop package

apt-file list pika-kde-desktop

If it looks like few unimportant doc files then it's safe to remove. Mark its dependencies as manual then remove it:

sudo apt-mark manual libcamera0.4 libfakekey0 libkf6people-data libkf6people6 libkf6peoplebackend6 qml6-module-org-kde-people qml6-module-qtquick-particles sshfs
sudo apt remove kdeconnect pika-kde-connect

>>108206266
Save the output as flac so you don't have generational loss or use a player that takes ffmpeg directives.

>>108206266
>the afade filter requires reenconding THE WHOLE FILE
I don't know the specifics of ffmpeg, but have you tried:
Slicing the audio near the end to create two parts, applying the fade out filter to the part at the end, then joining the two parts again? It should only reencode the small part at the end that way, as long as slicing and joining don't reencode.

>>108206283
Alright, I will do that then.

>>108205785
i use KDE, but what did gnome lose? I know it LOOKS like an awful DE, but does it have have all the same functionality?

>>108206193
>>108206283
think my dad only uses pikman pikaman? for pikaos, their package manager. He never touches apt.

>>108205790
I know about it, but it save the thumbnail as is.
Not the same as cover album, since there are some rules about it.

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I'm using bottles to run an old game (plants vs zombies)
Is there a way to get 1080p or at least 16:9 aspect ratio?

>>108203158
You can take LXDE from my cold dead hands.

>>108206476
Use gamescope to upscale it

>>108206510
from bottles or lunch bottles with gamescope?
I'm using wayland and bottles is installed as flatpak.

i like how the tty looks. are there any .ttf fonts that emulate the tty?

>>108206518
Probably via Bottles if there is some launcher arguments you can override. No idea, I don't use Bottles.
You could run Bottles itself in gamescope of course but there's probably a better way than that.

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i'm moving from i3/kitty to dwm/st, i like their philosophy. gaming on i3 worked pretty much out of the box but in dwm games seem to bug out when tabbing out to another workspace, it goes back to normal if i click on the screen though but it was a bit annoyging so i found a package called gamescope made by valve that fixes it, and now i can even treat the game as just another panel without the resolution shitting the bed, i couldn't do that with i3.

anyway i downloaded dwm and st from the AUR to try them out, now i'm ready to modify the config.h files and rebuild but aparently you can do that straight from yay. no need to clone the repo from suckless, anyone has any idea how to do that?

>>108206399
There's a Pikman reference as well in PikaOS? I need to check this out.

>>108206323
I tried this, it was a pain in the ass as the encoder added milliseconds of silence during the concatenation for some reason. Maybe there's a way to avoid it. I know jack shit about ffmpeg I'm monkey patching like a retard.

>>108206193
>>108206283
I had that problem with it too. Really solid distro at a glance, but it nagged me with this thing.
Also, they have a simple few steps to add snapper and snapshots, but snapper rollback does not work from booted snapshots which kinda defeats the point a little bit?

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be careful with hardlinking bros.
I've run `hardlink -vc` over my entire home dir and it broke some wine prefixes and games.
I had a snaphot from before, but annoyingly rsync has no option to break hardlink on destination directory to match the source, so rsyncing the snapshot did not fix it.
I had to first break all the hardlinks (find + cp + mv) and only then rsync my data back from a snapshot.

https://www.mail-archive.com/kde-bugs-dist@kde.org/msg1141836.html
I think I hit this thing myself.
I have an xbox clone gamepad I'm connecting through bluetooth specifically. Polling rate on Windows seems ok (250hz) but on linux it's capped at 190hz and has some severe jitter.
I wonder, how could I properly test this out? Is this sort of thing in the kernel itself? The report seems to point at KDE plasma itself, but I'm not sure it's that related to the problem.

>>108207054
What gamepad? What Distro? What kernel (uname -a)?

From the link it sounds like an issue with the KDE bluetooth profile or connection, but a kernel update might have coincided with a KDE update and they might be confused as to the cause, because a kernel issue seems much more likely to me.

Try booting a liveUSB with GNOME, see if you get different results.

>>108205835
Its a frankenstein mystery meat of random binaries
>I started down the rabbit hole of what it would take. There are pieces pulled from different OSes like TinyLinux that would need to be rewritten to be included in Ventoy or build processes to build those OSes just for ventoy. The build image is based on CentOS 6, which is deprecated, the build chains would either need to be built from source with at least one of them where I cannot find the source. Then the EDK2 source is modified from a unique build from 2019 I can't seem to find within the EDK2 repo as it doesn't consider with a branch or tag. I didn't even get to the parts that are dependent on Windows and FreeBSD.

>>108203141
Any reason to run a headless linux os? Assume that headless doesn't mean that the gui is completely absent and will boot if needed for certain processes or if you type the gui command.

>>108207176
As I suspected it has little to do with KDE, I rebased to a gnome image (using Aurora). Might be something with the kernel.

>>108207243
>I think the only way to reasonably create a blob-free version of Ventoy is to start over with this intent.

>>108203141
Should I rice out my machine or should I instead try to simplify it as much as possible?

>>108207243
I won't attribute malice to what to me looks really fucking retarded

>>108207046
it should be safe to use reflinks for any purpose rather than hardlinks
the gotcha with hardlinks is that hardlinked files become the same file, like if you modify one then the other will also be modified. it's just the same file in two places. reflinks on the other hand continue to be separate files, in that if you modify one, then only that one will be modified
the hardlink command includes an option to use reflinks instead. not all filesystems support them, you need a modern filesystem like btrfs

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>>108203141
>debian
>truenas
nas stuff
>proxmox
virtualization stuff
>pikaos
gayming
>devuan
libre stuff? artix equivalent?

>fedora
>nobara
gayming
>ublue
bazzite bluefin etc
>ultramarine
surface laptops tablets

those that i can quickly recall

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>>108207342
>reflinks
good point, i'm on zfs so they are supported, i just got spooked by the initial reflink-related data corruption bug a while ago so i kinda forgot about them.
One annoyance i remember with reflinks is that afaik there's no per-file reflink metadata exposed to userspace.
With hardlinks you can easily tell how many copies of a given file exist on a filesystem just by looking at number of links in stat output. Similarly, if you want to check if two files are hardlinked, just check if their inodes match. Tools like `ncdu` use hardlink information to tell you how much unique and shared storage there is per each directory.
I've had a lot of success with hardlinks on my NAS, but that's all static archived data, and as you've said, if a program modifies a file in place without breaking the link, then the change will be visible everywhere, unlike reflinks.
Perhaps i should switch to reflinks on my PC/laptop while keep on using hardlinks on my NAS.

>>108207244
Less resource usage for when you don't need a GUI.

>>108207499
>One annoyance i remember with reflinks is that afaik there's no per-file reflink metadata exposed to userspace.
That's by design because they are not the same file they are in fact two distinct copies they just share extents internally in the filesystem and the filesystem will make a real copy if you modify it.

debian seems solid but I don't want old package
pikaOS looks really amateur from their wiki but if it's just debian with more packages on top it can't hurt right?
bazzite is amateur but the lead is microsoft
ublue is just a bunch of people there's a guy in youtube with a spanish name telling people how amazing these are
ultramarine is just fedora with catboys
nobara is ultramarine but breaks more often
cachyos is for people obsessed with performance
arch is for cachyos users
fedora is gay
opensuse is gay too don't use it
>>108207465

>>108207244
sometimes there's just no need to have a gui installed or running. my vps and home server are both headless, neither have a monitor attached to them, nor do i run any graphical software on them

>>108207563
>pikaOS looks really amateur from their wiki but if it's just debian with more packages on top it can't hurt right?
Depends what they do to it. It is very easy to break Debian if you're not careful.

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>>108203693
I can't help it lol

>>108203774
Until KDE gets better I prefer GNOME.
So X11 isn't really an option anymore.

>>108205809
>dankshell
Looks very interesting.
Thing is, I hate going rogue and installing software outside of the package manager unless absolutely necessary.

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>>108207563
>ultramarine is just fedora with catboys
Instantly picked up if true.

>>108207516
yeah, i wouldn't expect them to appear as the same file in UNIX metadata, but it would be nice for ZFS to provide some reflink-exclusive per-file metadata in some other channel (ioctl?) for additional visibility. Then application developers could use that bonus metadata the same way they use stat metadata to display unique/shared storage details like `ncdu` does with hardlinks.
But reflinks work on a block level, unlike hardlinks which work on whole files, so that's probably why such per-file metadata doesn't exist. It's just annoying that you can only get a per whole dataset insight on how much storage you've saved by reflinks, no per-directory information etc.

>>108207601
>It's just annoying that you can only get a per whole dataset insight on how much storage you've saved by reflinks, no per-directory information etc.
I don't think anyone has any use for this

>>108207601
>per whole dataset insight
scratch that, in ZFS there's only a per entire pool insight on reflink space saving

>>108207582
Honestly I just tapped out because I'm kind of afraid of that, precisely.
It seems ambitious but there's not a whole lot of a community outside their discord (as a few other distros really, kind of fucking annoying and infuriating) and they don't seem too verbose.
https://wiki.pika-os.com/en/faqs/pika-modifications

>>108207601
BTRFS has compsize maybe that works on ZFS too?

>>108207627
Heh:
>mkinitramfs replaced with booster.

That's a positive at least. The Debian initramfs scripts are such a piece of shit.

>>108207595
As a distro is quite solid, because it doesn't do too many modifications from fedora. It just adds what practically everyone and his mother does, and the terra repo by default because it's their thing. It has a single command to add the cachyos kernel copr and install it, which is... a very minor little nothing? what kind of person can't add a copr
But I suspect there's a lot of thai catboys in that discord server of theirs because whenever you get there it's all "kittens" so be careful you might catch the bug even if you're not chasing it

>>108207628
>compsize
right, from the manpage it sounds like exactly what i want, but as far as i'm aware it only supports btrfs by using btrfs-exclusive ioctls. I wonder if btrfs implements reflinks in a different way that makes such accounting easier compared to ZFS.
I'm sure you could use `zdb` on ZFS to implement something similar, but it's bound to be slow.

>>108207628
Ah, that's a shame. It doesn't work:

# compsize /usr
/usr/lib/snapper/installation-helper: Not btrfs (or SEARCH_V2 unsupported).

I think if ZFS implemented whatever this SEARCH_V2 thing is it'd allow accurate accounting for a directory with a bunch of reflinked files

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>set up my laptop with fedora and LUKS
>don't touch it for several weeks because I don't need my laptop often
>finally need it
>forgot my LUKS password
Not like I had anything on there, but now I'll have to do it all again.

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>>108205809
How have I not heard about Dank Linux before? People go on and on about COSMIC, but Dank already seems to have surpassed it? Why isn't this talked about more?

>>108207698
SEARCH_V2 or BTRFS_IOC_TREE_SEARCH_V2 is a btrfs feature, it's mentioned specifically only because the error is because this specific feature wasn't found, perhaps like if your btrfs volume or kernel is super old, not that it makes sense for other filesystems to support it (of which i have no idea)

>>108207752
Yes, I gathered that. This was my ZFS on root. I figured they might implement it since they do implement the BTRFS ioctl for reflinks but I guess not.

>>108207750
I went with noctalia, owls are cool. But yea, cosmic seems amateur hour. No night light.

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The only thing holding me back from using linux was that the default gtk file picker firefox uses by default. When i realized i can actually use the gnome file picker i switched.

>>108207814
teto-chaaan

>>108207750
>>108207804
Oh wait, there is no built-in file manager. I understand now why it isn't talked about more. Because it still relies on infrastructure from other environments.

>>108207752
>>108207761
i looked into `hardlink` source code and `--skip-reflinks` is implemented using FS_IOC_FIEMAP ioctl, which is generic and should work across filesystems.
So it seems that on ZFS it should at least be possible to check if two files are reflinked by using fiemap.

What's the virus landscape on Linux look like? Can you get a virus from downloading shady software? What can you do to protect yourself? Is there something like Linux antivirus software?

>>108208150
>What's the virus landscape on Linux look like?
Malware abounds.
>Can you get a virus from downloading shady software?
Yes, just like Windows. What's different is you have package managers filled with Free Software programs you SHOULD be able to trust. Don't install "free nitro" discord hacks or other stupid shit that little kids do.
>What can you do to protect yourself?
Common Sense, don't type your root password in unless you know something you trust NEEDS to edit system files
>Is there something like Linux antivirus software?
It exists, it's garbage. Staying within your default repositories, legitimate PPAs or AUR packages, installing legitimate software (stop pirating executables), or installing games from Steam or other reputable marketplaces will mean you'll be fine.

Just installed Arch on a Lenovo Ideapad 120S 14|AP. I cannot for the life of me get the trackpad working. Using Gnome (Wayland) if that helps.

Tried adding "i8042.nopnp=1 pci=nocrs" to limine bootloader.
Tried installing libinput

>>108208150
I'm going to be honest with you, most vulnerabilities are so minor you won't need an antivirus for them or they are so major that an antivirus cannot save you. Just look up shit like xz-utils backdoor or CVE-2025-49794

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In reference to my question in the previous thread >>108202704, is it possible to go wrong with any choice of network management implementation with respect to high-resource usage, or is it all the same thing more or less? I'm trying to put together a low-resource installation (Arch) for my X60. I've always just used iwd, but I'm curious if there's a better way to go about connecting to a network (wireless or ethernet); something that follows the UNIX philosophy of just managing one thing only.

If my choice of network manager doesn't make much of a difference (aside from convenience, e. g. having to manually manage network configurations), then what are some areas that do make a difference?

>>108208150
Anti viruses are a meme even on windows. The ways to infect your OS with one are the same. People running random stuff as sudo is often the main way to get buttfucked, be it right off the bat or later on, but there are other ways as well.
>What can you do to protect yourself?
Stick to reputable sources and obviously don't run shit that might be infected. Should be noted that community repositories such as AUR and copr aren't inherently trustworthy, neither are user repositories from randoms, so check what you're downloading.
Use sandboxes with no internet access and restricted file/folder permissions, see bubblewrap and firejail, maybe there's something else as well. There's also apparmor and selinux.

how do I forward all traffic going from a wifi hotspot on my laptop to the laptop's ethernet?

>>108208150
clamav exists, but mostly to scan email attachments for Windows clients. Antivirus is a bandaid you use to cover your boss' drinking buddy who compulsively double clicks every email attachment and elderly relatives with sundowners. It's no longer even the correct solution in those cases now that Chromebooks exist. If you fear you are this kind of person, buy a Chromebook. Not even trying to be a dick.

Sorry if this is a bit out of topic. Trying to connect to IRC. Do I need to connect once without SASL to register my nick?

>>108208715
Depends on the network, Rizon yes, EFnet doesn't have nick registration, others may be somewhere in between.

>>108208150
>What can you do to protect yourself?
linux is trash at security, switch to OpenBSD, it's secure out of the box

>>108208490
>Stick to reputable sources
Bro don't know about supply chain attacks
You aren't secure unless you decompile every binary you download

>>108208889
cuck license

>>108208982
no nigger.png?

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Does anyone know how to use bash keybinds in zsh?
I started using zsh yesterday, set up plugins to emulate fish and I have been enjoying it a ton so far.
I have to add them manually in .zshrc with bindkey.
I have emacs keybinds enabled with bindkey -e. I don't know what to do other than manually type up every keybind, most of which I don't know the specific names of to put in my .zshrc.
Thank you!

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>>108208563
Are you asking how to turn your Linux laptop into an access point - something that bridges the wired and wireless?
Lets presume your laptop's Wi-Fi chip can do access points to begin with and you are using systemd.
For starters you need a bridge for your Ethernet bridging purposes, lets call it local-bridge:

# /etc/systemd/network/00-local-bridge.netdev 
[NetDev]
Name=local-bridge
Kind=bridge
MACAddress=20:20:20:20:20:20

I pulled the 20:20:20:20:20:20 from my hat. Just so there's a recognisable and static MAC in that thing.
Then you give your local bridge an IP, let's assume it's using DHCP.

# /etc/systemd/network/00-local-bridge.network
[Match]
Name=local-bridge
[Network]
DHCP=true

Then you enslave your whatever wired Ethernet, the following picks up all wired Ethernet adapters:

# /etc/systemd/network/01-slaves.network 
[Match]
Kind=!*
Type=ether
[Network]
Bridge=local-bridge

aaaaand then you need to configure hostapd, you need to research that yourself and the settings vary on which frequency band you are going for and all that. Just so it bridges into that "local-bridge".
Also I think you can do all those systemd-networkd configurations with NetworkManager too, maybe. Haven't used NetworkManager for a while so idk.

>>108209161
thanks. I'll give it a shot

>>108209186
Having a bridge with some adapters is the easy part. The hard part is getting the physical access point up.

iw phy phy0 info

should give you the hardware capabilities, look for "Supported interface modes" on "AP".

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why does the task manager show much less memory being used by processes than is actually used?

>>108209057
This is my .zshrc and it works *exactly* like bash:

zstyle ':completion:*' completer _expand _complete _ignored _correct _approximate
zstyle ':completion:*' format 'Completing %d'
zstyle ':completion:*' list-colors ${(s.:.)LS_COLORS}
zstyle ':completion:*' list-prompt %SAt %p: Hit TAB for more, or the character to insert%s
zstyle ':completion:*' matcher-list '' 'm:{[:lower:]}={[:upper:]}'
zstyle ':completion:*' max-errors 2
zstyle :compinstall filename '/home/joe/.zshrc'

export ZCOMPDUMP="$HOME/.cache/zsh/.zcompdump"
mkdir -p "${ZCOMPDUMP:h}"

autoload -Uz compinit
compinit -d "$ZCOMPDUMP"

HISTFILE=~/.histfile
HISTSIZE=10000
SAVEHIST=10000
setopt SHARE_HISTORY

setopt autocd extendedglob nomatch notify
unsetopt beep

bindkey -e
bindkey "^[[3~" delete-char
# Fix Home/End keys in Konsole
bindkey '^[[H' beginning-of-line
bindkey '^[[F' end-of-line
autoload -U colors && colors

PROMPT='[%n@%m %F{green}%1~%f]%# '
source ~/.aliases

PATH="$HOME/.local/bin:$HOME/bin:$PATH"

precmd() {
  print -Pn "\e]1;%~\a"    # Tab title (directory)
  print -Pn "\e]0;%n@%m: %~\a"  # Window title
}
source /usr/share/zsh-syntax-highlighting/zsh-syntax-highlighting.zsh

>>108203598
I would keep my game installs, project files, music, etc. on another drive or partition. When you ever need to change OS it saves you some backup/restore trouble.

In general I'd recommend making image backups from Linux more often, especially before upgrading your system. When it fucks up your system you can easily roll back. I'd recommend good old Clonezilla for this. Timeshift or Btrfs aren't bulletproof.

And in this image backup-restore scenario, you don't constantly want to write/read TB's worth of game files, music, videos. Which is why having different drives or partitions is preferable.

>>108209319
The kernel itself uses at least 100 MB of memory, plus task manager doesn't show processes running as root.

>>108203684
You can disable the animations, Anon.

>>108204205
IIRC Windows default EFI partition is only 100 MB and too small for Fedora. Needs 1-2 GB I think.
I have a similar setup as you with dual boot on two drives but I created a new /boot partition on the Fedora drive so each OS is completely contained on its own drive.

>>108209595
Can you still fully disable them on Plasma 6? Another anon said not 100%.

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>>108209669
Setting animations to "Instant" disables them. Plasma 6 has had this for a long as I can remember.

>>108208476
Hm, it looks like the traditional minimal implementation is wpa supplicant and dhcpcd, but it looks like iwd has superseded that--instead of having two daemons running, I can just use iwd, or iwd and dhcpcd.

>>108209669
Setting them to instant turns them off, and Instant has been in Plasma 6 since release.

>>108209690
>>108209768
Thanks. I actually knew this. I must have been crashing out when I posted the greentext.

>>108207750
I tried dank linux on opensuse but it threw a bunch of errors on hyprland and I couldn't get hdr to work on niri and some of my windows like syeam looked like they were half the resolution, al pixelated
I liked it a lot, don't get me wrong. I'm just too retarded to deal with this

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>>108203141
I want to rice my linux desktop, I want it to basically look like the Matrix 2000-2010 era something like pic related but I'm on Xubuntu.
I'm willing to try or get recommendations on something different but I really like pic related.

Why is windows so fucking gay?
I wanted to test something out yesterday by installing it on a separate SSD to avoid bullshit with the bootloader. I tell Windows to install itself on the unallocated space on a separate SSD, and what do you think it does? It installs the bootloader on the EFI on my primary SSD. Now I have to manually install the bootloader from Windows on the separate drive just so my loonix EFI isn't polluted and if I decide to format my primary drive I don't lose access to Windows. For the longest time I can remember, easy to use distros usually create an EFI (much bigger than windows' to be fair) on the same fucking drive you tell them to by default if you use the entire drive. Why can't Windows just fucking do this? It's not even a thing against linux, if you had 2 drives and one already had windows on it, it does the same fucking thing? What the hell is wrong with these people?

>dnf automatic updates is a simple 1.4 kilobyte binary
>apt automatic updates is a horrific 16 kilobyte shell script
Lesson in there

>>108206476

flatpak install flathub org.freedesktop.Platform.VulkanLayer.gamescope

Then enable Gamescope in your Bottle which contains the game.

>>108210080
Tried that, didn't work.

Unfriendly GNU/Linux Thread

Does Ubuntu LTS have a similar update frequency to Debian? My friend hates updates and I'm unsure whether to install Debian on his PC today or wait for Kubuntu 26.04

>>108210191
>hates updates
>unsure whether to install Debian
lol

>>108210205
?

>>108210191
>kubuntu
spinoffs are only 3 years of support compared to the 5-15 years of regular ubuntu.

>>108210211
Meaning that Debian Stable is perfect for him

>>108210216
He's fine with upgrading to the next LTS version every 2 years. He just doesn't want to be inundated with updates like on Windows

>>108210222
then put him on fedora. snaps are arse.

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>>108210164
FUCK YOU!

>>108210191
Debian stable has fewer updates, but the "extra" updates you get on Ubuntu LTS go towards fixing bugs and security issues that Debian considers not worth sending out an update for. Additonally, Ubuntu LTS has HWE (Hardware Enablement) updates that generally coincide with new versions of Ubuntu, which update the kernel and graphics stack.

I think your friend is a typical Wintard babby who thinks updates add more unwanted shit ("Not again!") and not just useful feature and security stuff.

Does he want to game? Ubuntu LTS is going to be much better long term for this. It's also more widely supported and chances are any issue you encounter will have already been discussed online and hopefully a solution is presented.

>>108210230
>then put him on fedora
Lol. I use Fedora KDE and it has daily updates.
>snaps are arse
I'll make a custom iso without snaps or even snapd, plus some preinstalled apps/drivers

>>108210235
So stay on Fedora N-1 and you will get way less updates

>>108210235
just like anon said earlier. >>108210233 it's not updates that they mind, it's windows updates.
fedora does it silently when you reboot. you can always put him on mint that has less updates.

>>108210222
How’s your friend with computers, is he scared of the big black box called the terminal?

>>108210239
...
Then he'll hit "Update" in Discover and get moved to Fedora 43. Do you even use Fedora?

>>108210246
in my experience the upgrade from gui just fails to do anything and i have to drop down to command line to upgrade fedora.

>>108210244
He's not scared of CLI shit, but he also rightly finds it unfun. I am going to completely set up the iso to his preferences; I just wanna know what the update cadence is like on Ubuntu LTS.

>>108210254
updates are just a reality of software, tell your "friend" to swallow the bitter pill or move to Hannah Montana OS.

>>108210243
>install updates when you reboot
I loathe this model. I can see why it is "safer" because you're not running programs while updating them, but this has really never been an issue excepting maybe Firefox which makes you relaunch if you update in the background.

It's definitely more retard proof but I much prefer doing things in the command line while the system is running, manually restarting programs and services as needed, generally only rebooting for kernel updates. But I get that I'm not the typical normie that the "Restart and Install Updates" flow was made for.

>>108210222
openSUSE Leap 16 then

>>108210243
>fedora does it silently when you reboot
Fedora Atomic might. On Fedora KDE you have to press "Update" in Discover; nothing silent about that.

Bazzite zoomer here, what should I use to stream games from my PC to my Android phone? Also, is there a way for such a streamed game to run on a virtual workspace/desktop/monitor so it doesn't interfere with another person using the computer at the same time?

>>108210265
it's "safer" for plenty of reasons. you should always reboot your pc if you're updating your pc.

>>108210267
Packman is a shitshow

>>108210269
fedora workstation does it this way, the kde spin is a toy.

>>108210265
There are methods of doing partial automatic updates upon reboot. As in, flag certain packages so that they only install through that specific method. Meaning you could put in a list things like what you said, kernel updates, and everything else is up for normal updates you don't have to restart for.

>>108210279
Fedora KDE is no longer a spin but a co-flagship edition alongside Fedora Workstation.

You can’t have both ways of something being easy to use and have no updates.

>>108210279
So if friend over there needs rpmfusion for the codecs and shit goes out of sync, how do silent updates deal with this?

>>108210287
Windows managed that just fine before Windows 10. Debian 13 manages that too.
>>108210293
RPM Fusion never goes out of sync because it's a legal loophole maintained by Red Hat/Fedora Project members; RPM Fusion updates are coordinated with Fedora updates.

>>108210286
the community kept whining about it. lmk when redhat starts working on kde.

>>108210287
It's more like this.
You can't have stability and updates. You cannot have current hardware and hardware feature support, alongside with newer software support, without updates. But you cannot rely on newer updates always. In fact some people even with newer hardware tend to stick to LTS.
The only way an automatic hassle free silent method of updates works is if:
1. There's very little if no access to third party repositories that could introduce any sort of stability
2. The distro provides everything that is needed from the official repositories well maintained and not severely out of date
3. There's a reliable rollback system in the event that a system update fails to apply itself and there's no partial updating process

I'm updating to Ubuntu 25.10 today!

>>108210286
Apparently that "upgrade" changes nothing functionally - it is just marketing.

>>108210336
What would it have to change, functionally? Fedora KDE just werks.

>>108210324
I'm on Ubuntu Unity 26.04 already, doing some testing AND running on "production" - will this come back to haunt me? Oh well I have Ventoy loaded with ISOs if it totally borks.

>>108210337
Nothing, but >>108210286 implies that somehow KDE werks better under Fedora now because it is no longer a spin

>>108210346
It would imply that it's proven itself to not be a "toy"

>>108210352
That's not the case, either. KDE predates GNOME and it the only real Linux DE besides GNOME. Fedora KDE is just marketing.

>>108210356
So what makes Fedora KDE a "toy" as opposed to a solid operating system that just werks?

>>108210297
>RPM Fusion never goes out of sync because it's a legal loophole maintained by Red Hat/Fedora Project members; RPM Fusion updates are coordinated with Fedora updates.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/1qwj09o/fedora_update_mesa_drivers/
Seems like it's still an issue, even if it's just waiting a couple of hours.
Manually there's no issue at all sure, but if it's an automatic process that is not supposed to be aware of this delay, what does it do? Does it ignore the package conflicts? Does it update the rest? What does it silently specifically do?

>>108210359
I'm not saying it's a toy. I'm saying the transition from "Fedora, KDE spin" to "Fedora KDE" is pure marketing. There is no material change.

>>108210363
Should've used Discover

>>108210365
>I'm not saying it's a toy. I'm saying the transition from "Fedora, KDE spin" to "Fedora KDE" is pure marketing. There is no material change.
As someone who's tried every single major version of Fedora since 37 I cannot agree with this shit.
Fedora used to be the anti-KDE distro. It was a pain in the ass. I would always, always see reports of Krashes that only happened in fucking Fedora of all places. It's like they were actively sabotaging this shit. I've used arch for an extended period of time as well with KDE Plasma and had next to none of the issues I had with it.
But recently that's changed, I've used Plasma on Fedora and it's actually fucking usable.

>>108210373
Ok, how does Discover deal with this then?
I always saw Discover as more of a flatpak installer (and a sluggish one to boot). How does it time updates and how does it deal with these conflicts?

>>108210386
>I always saw Discover as more of a flatpak installer
How long have you been using Linux?

>>108210400
Since 2002 when I've discovered knoppix, why?
Generally speaking I had trouble with discover and native packages for the longest time on different distros.

>>108210408
Yeah well that probably explains it. Longtime users stopped learning new things about Linux after 2009

>>108210410
I just had trouble with discover on debian, opensuse and arch (well on arch it's just not recommended period) for anything but flatpaks, so I don't know if fedora actually handles it well.
I haven't bothered with fedora KDE because I would always have problems with it enough to stay well away from it.

>>108210420
Discover has worked on Debian and OpenSUSE just fine since, I don't know, when haven't they worked? Arch's maintainers don't care about AppStream metadata, thus Discover and PackageKit for that matter don't even work on Arch.

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Installing Debian right now
Do I pick KDE Plasma or XFCE or GNOME as my DE?
I have a new laptop that's decently strong

>>108210442
If you like the UX of Windows 7 onwards, pick Plasma.

>>108210442
If it's a new laptop it probably has HDR, VRR, or HiDPI, in which case you can rule out Xfce if any of the above are true.

>>108210191
The frequency of updates pushed by your distro is irrelevant when nobody is forcing you to update anyway. Snaps auto-update but that's a thing exclusive to official Ubuntu flavors.

>>108210235
The difference is Fedora doesn't forcefully update your OS every day. I haven't updated my Fedora system in over a month. And unlike Snaps, Flatpaks don't forcefully auto-update themselves.

>>108210480
>The frequency of updates pushed by your distro is irrelevant when nobody is forcing you to update anyway
That is not true. If you have to read the update list to mentally decide whether it's worth updating, then there is a cognitive load that doesn't exist on Debian where you know for a FACT that each Discover notification actually matters.

>>108210442
Plasma is the only serious DE. GNOME is a distant 2nd. Everything else is not even comparable to those two.

>>108210442
You should use Plasma

>>108210484
If you don't give a fuck about the changes from the updates it doesn't matter if you do it (or rather don't do it) once per day, once per week, once per month or at whatever intervals.

>>108207243
They're not random binaries, they're clearly stated what they are and how they're obtained/built. Like the other anon said its just retardation and poor planning more than actual malice.
People also say that its supposed to be malware but never explain how the malware from the random binaries are supposed to work then the majority of them never get loaded during iso booting.

>>108207590
>I hate going rogue and installing software outside of the package manager unless absolutely necessary.
The software it relies on called quickshell should be in every repo the only thing those projects really provide is just a config file to load the rice.

>>108210484
>If you have to read the update list to mentally decide whether it's worth updating
Why would you ever care about this? If you're not updating then you're not updating.
>Discover notification
Is disabling a single notification too complicated? If you don't want to be bothered by disabling a notification then you can use one of the ublue images since they strip out Discover entirely.

I mean, the fuck am I reading here? If you're not a chronic updooter then you'd disable update notifications and only manually update whenever you feel like it. Which could just be never if you want.

I have 3 Fedora machines. One hasn't been updated in almost a month. One hasn't been updated in 2 months. And the 3rd one is still on Fedora 42 because it's an offline machine. I have never had any cognitive load thinking about updates on any of these.

>>108210506
>>108210524
You are not understanding.
If the

firefox

package gets an update, I want that shit. However, I don't care about

libcap-ng-python3

; I don't even know what that is. If an update actually matters (eg a Firefox update), I want it. Unfortunately on Fedora, 99% of updates are gigabytes of completely superfluous crap for irrelevant packages that I do not care about, and I don't like having to read the list of updatable packages to check whether any of them actually matter. I've made a habit on Fedora of skipping updates for days and days because I'll read the package list on Discover and find zero packages I care about, but I also don't like _having_ to read the package lists in the chance there _is_ a package I care about, like

firefox

.

Meanwhile on Debian, you know for a fact that every time you get a Discover notification, you don't have to think about whether the updates matter because they always do.

>>108210532
You do realize this problem is entirely solved by just using Flatpaks, Snaps and Appimages for your applications instead of still living like a caveman pulling packages from a distro repository?

any way to globally enable menu bars on kde?

>>108210532
This is true. I use the firefox tarball which updates independently of the system but if you find updates annoying then Debian is the better pick over Fedora.

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>>108210535
>You do realize that update churn is entirely solved by FlatPaks and Snaps, which give you update churn ASAP

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This is annoying me. I used the add button to import an icon theme, then didn't like it, so deleted it...now it is stuck like this. I'm sure the blue one, fourth down is meant to be the Adwaita default icon theme but it shows the name of the old icon theme. Any ideas?

>>108210535
>>108210541
Also, what about my drivers? What about my desktop environment? Shit that actually fucking matters that's part of the base system; when I get a Discover notification on Fedora, I click on it, hoping it's an update for one of these things, and 99% of the time it isn't because it's another update for

libcap-ng-python3

and other stupid shit; gigabytes of worth of this crap daily. I don't want to think about

libcap-ng-python3

. I don't like getting Discover notifications if there's a less than 100% likelihood that the updatable packages will be shit that actually matters; this is why the next time I get a new SSD, I'll be putting Debian on it, which is gonna be a fucking wait because I have a good SSD that probably won't grow sluggish for another 10 years.

>>108210532
>I don't even know what that is.
> If an update actually matters (eg a Firefox update), I want it
How do you know if the update actually matters if you don't even know what it is?

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It's been nearly a week since Firefox ESR 140.7.1 released fixing two high security issues. Yet there is no security update in Debian. Why?

>>108210585
Because I've not felt any difference from these superfluous packages after like 7 months of using Fedora? Meanwhile, I know Firefox matters, I know my drivers matter, and I know my desktop environment matters.

>>108210586
Why are you not using the mozilla repo for debian? If they don't have it, the question should be why mozilla is so slow.

>>108210567
If your DE works fine then you have no reason to update. If you're on Debian you're not getting any relevant DE updates anyway. So this is an entirely bullshit and nonsensical argument.

>>108210600
Plasma 6.6 has tangible improvements that are obvious to end users. What do you mean I had no reason to update?

>>108210532
What I do is remove anything that has an update that I feel my system doesn't need. Eventually you get a lean system. Obviously some things are critical though, so you should use dnf to show the description of the package(s).

Things like os-prober (multiboot), usbmuxd (iphones) are not necessary at all but often get installed...even in minimal installs.

>>108210600
>>108210606
Also,
>If you're on Debian you're not getting any relevant DE updates anyway
Sure, but you are getting security updates for other system packages, and you can be guaranteed that these actually matter.

I am myself a bit of a chronic updooter. Whenever I see some form of progress I want it as soon as I can. Even recently, for instance. Kernel 6.19 might have fixed some crashes with my GPU, and Plasma 6.6 fixed a problem I had for quite a while with VRR on fullscreen applications that didn't need to have it (which I needed to blacklist through window rules before). As another example, Mesa 26 seems to introduce at least something I want as well. This is perhaps why I use rolling release distros and have to deal with the rough edges.

Any good mail clients that look like Apple's Mail?
Specifically the 3 column layout (account|mail|message).

>>108210593
If you have to have such a tight grip on what gets updated on your system and what is "superfluous"...you need to be using something like Slackware, Gentoo, or go all the way with Linux from Scratch. Otherwise, deal with the concept that the people making the distro have a valid reason for updating said packages, and dont get your panties twisted about it.

>>108210597
I try to use only Debian's repository. They keep Firefox up to date on the past three Debian releases. Mozilla has updated it but Debian is still on 140.7.0. I hate using snap and flatpaks.

>>108210618
>if you want updates to matter, just compile every binary from source like a retard, instead of just installing Debian and setting it and forgetting it like a normal person
Go fuck yourself. You're such an idiot.

>>108210629
That doesn't work. Some day Debian will decide to deprecate some superfluous package like Sysvinit (for good reasons of course, but maybe you think otherwise) and then you're left with the choice of accepting their updates that replace it with Systemd or fucking the entire fucking distribution like Devuan did.

If you want control over your distribution to that degree then ultimately you do want to be using a distribution that will allow you to compile from source if you want to or need to and does so without getting in the way or you needing to fight the distribution and potentially break it in the process.

>>108210606
Not him, but right now, how would you deal with this on Debian? Plasma 6.6 has meaninful improvements like you said. Do you use a different repository? Do you change update channels? Wait endlessly?

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>>108210586
oh boy, it's time to recompile firefox again...

You don't need deb-src in your sources file. Stop wasting bandwidth unless you compile from source (you don't).

>>108210535
>using your distro's package manager is caveman behavior
Let me guess, your favorite linux distro is android?

>>108210629
>normal person
so you want other to make and package updates for you, but then only provide them in the exact way that you want. How very "normal" of you. If you want it done exactly your way, do it yourself.

>>108210651
See you tomoorrow

>>108210649
You wait endlessly or circumvent the debian stability idea by migrating anything you want to get updates to flatpacks or whatever.

>>108210657
He could have compiled Firefox multiple times and Debian still wouldn't have updated their Firefox.

$ qlop -Hv www-client/firefox | tail
2026-02-15T22:26:56 >>> www-client/firefox-99999999: 1 hour, 27 minutes, 45 seconds
2026-02-16T12:17:11 >>> www-client/firefox-99999999: 1 hour, 17 minutes, 14 seconds
2026-02-16T17:57:50 >>> www-client/firefox-99999999: 1 hour, 30 minutes, 52 seconds
2026-02-17T15:55:19 >>> www-client/firefox-99999999: 1 hour, 10 minutes, 40 seconds
2026-02-18T11:12:03 >>> www-client/firefox-99999999: 1 hour, 21 minutes, 46 seconds
2026-02-19T09:18:16 >>> www-client/firefox-99999999: 1 hour, 17 minutes, 17 seconds
2026-02-19T15:32:54 >>> www-client/firefox-99999999: 1 hour, 47 minutes, 55 seconds
2026-02-21T03:33:23 >>> www-client/firefox-99999999: 1 hour, 37 minutes, 51 seconds
2026-02-21T17:11:02 >>> www-client/firefox-99999999: 1 hour, 40 minutes, 12 seconds
2026-02-21T22:33:54 >>> www-client/firefox-99999999: 1 hour, 24 minutes, 16 seconds

(Yes, that's a live ebuild of Firefox Nightly I compile myself)

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Trying to verify Arch ISO
Is this good or bad...?

>>108210665
You could also use the tarball and get the updates instantly without compiling it for hours.

>>108210642
>If you want control over your distribution to that degree
That's not what I said. I didn't say anything about control. What I said is that I don't want to pay attention to package lists. I don't want to get an update notification then have to contemplate whether it's even worth installing; Debian satisfies this social contract. I put Debian on my laptop about a month ago and I've never once delayed an update because it's only EVER been important shit.
>>108210649
If I really truly need the latest Plasma binaries on Debian, I can get them on my own. Otherwise, 6.3.5 is good enough that I can wait for Debian 14.

>>108210667
Well you'd have to approach Pierre and ask "does this belong to you" then mark as trusted.

>>108210661
See that's the tradeoff.
Eventually whether we like it or not (a lot of us don't) we'll suck on that flatdik until our teeth fall out.

>>108210617
nevermind, betterbird has this option...fuck me didn't realize this for nearly a year.

>>108210674
>I didnt say anything about control
>I only want to install packages that I personally think are important
Come on anon

>>108210665
Debian did fix libvpx so I guess the Firefox doesn't need to be recompiled in sync with its current version number.

>>108210691
If you think I have such a lust for control, then what do you think makes Debian appeal to me? Because Debian 13 is not a DIY distro, at least the KDE ISO isn't. The fact is that I don't want to waste brain power deciding whether I give a shit about an update, because Debian promises you that every time you get an update notification, it's because it's something I (maybe not you, but _me_) will give a shit about.

>>108210694
That's correct, yes. If it's using system libraries instead of bundled libvpx then Firefox never needed an update in the first place and the other anon doesn't know what he's talking about and thinks it's outdated just because the version number isn't the latest.

>>108210705
>promises
How do you know if an update is important or not, without evaluating them? You are essentially blindly trusting the Debian maintainers. What makes them different from the maintainers of Fedora? Other than that they apparently have so far made update decisions that you agree with? What happens when Debian pushes an update you dont like? Will you even know? You "dont waste brain power thinking about updates" Hell, with that attitude you could just use Windows.

>>108210678
It solves a problem that distros like Debian introduced themselves by being allergic to updates.
On a rolling distro such a problem just doesn't exist.

>>108210705
Can you explain the process by which these notifications notify you of what you actually give a fuck about? I'm having some trouble here with this concept of "superfluous updates". If you have to check what's superfluous, isn't that already wasting time on reading that shit?
Like what the fuck do you even mean? "this kernel got support for 4 new bluetooth dongles but because I don't have them, I don't get a notification for that"? I struggle to see the reasoning here.
The only thing I see reasonable is looking for a system of updates that's so reliable that you can say "I don't have to even read anything, I know that if I hit updates right now, nothing will break and I might actually get some improvements".

>>108210751
Debian mostly only pushes important security updates. With Fedora it's easy to start ignoring updates because you get so many and miss an important one. Not so with Debian since you know it's important.

>>108210612
>but you are getting security updates for other system package
Not really, no. You're only getting security updates for open source packages which attach a CVE to the commits/PRs addressing a security vulnerability. Outside of packages used by servers there's very few that do this. On average you're actually much more secure if you use Arch compared to Debian.
Besides, arguing about security and yet saying "no I won't use Flatpak" is hilarious. Keeping your system updated is only one of many things you need to do to secure your OS.

>>108210674
>If I really truly need the latest Plasma binaries on Debian, I can get them on my own. Otherwise, 6.3.5 is good enough that I can wait for Debian 14.
You do realize you're making circular arguments which completely defeat themselves? I'm assuming you're >>108210567, >>108210532 and >>108210629. So, again, read: >>108210600. You're spewing nonsense here.
If you're using Debian, you're not getting these feature updates until the next major version. If you want the latest version of a DE, you need to compile it from source. If you want the latest version of Firefox, you need to use a Flatpak/Appimage/.tar. There is no way around this.

If you "want the latest updates" anyway then arguing against other libraries updating along your system is retarded in the first place. You're the one who opted to use apt/dnf to install Firefox which means it's tied to your system updates.
Again, if you want a "stable OS" with your apps being separated from the system so that they can get updated individually whenever you want, then you should use Flatpak or something similar. In the worst case scenario an appimage or a distrobox container if you have autism regarding Flatpak permissions. Your only other option is compiling from source, which doesn't look like an option to you.

>>108210758
>On a rolling distro such a problem just doesn't exist.
What's the difference between arch and fedora then?
Gentoo is just pure retardation IMO.

thinking about using arch but i'm too lazy

>>108210758
It introduces other problems, like bubblewrapping everything up and forcing people to poke holes into that. And shifting trust to flatpak maintainers. Not that I'm against it, I do use flatpaks out of convenience sometimes. But if the native package works better I won't use a flatpak for that just to adapt.

>>108210767
Fedora is a point release distro, I dunno how exactly they handle updates. Never used it, not going to do it either.

>>108210774
That's why Endeavour and Cachy exist. A full Arch install but for lazy people.

>>108210767
>What's the difference between arch and fedora then?
Fedora moves slower than Arch (except in Rawhide)
Arch is more similar to Gentoo (always rolling, although the comparison breaks down a bit because Gentoo does have a stable version). If Gentoo is retarded then so is Arch.

>>108210763
I'm not aware of Debian ever allowing a serious CVE linger for months in the way that Fedora did with openh264.

>>108210762
Debian and Fedora are not equivalent distos, they have different goals. "You know its important" Every distro pushes updates the maintainers think are important within the scope of the distro. For example, if you used Debian Sid you would get a lot more updates...all of which are "important" to Sid but not for Stable

>>108210777
That's a different aspect, and I avoid them as much as I can due to that, and the one time I had to try it the experience was horrible.

>>108210794
That was Cisco's fault. Openh264 is a special package because they handle the licensing for it.

>>108210774
I heard archinstall these days is not as buggy anymore.
Honestly after all the headaches I've had in the last few months I think arch is the only sensible choice in this day and age. I'm not even fucking kidding.

>>108210751
>You are essentially blindly trusting the Debian maintainers
That's right.
>What makes them different from the maintainers of Fedora?
Because Fedora maintainers give me daily multi-gigabyte updates for

libcap-ng-python3

et al and ONLY

libcap-ng-python3

et al. Every once in a blue moon they give me an update for something OTHER than

libcap-ng-python3

et al, but if that's the case, I would prefer to only receive update notifications when this occurs.
>What happens when Debian pushes an update you dont like?
Debian updates are pretty smooth, but sure, I'm willing to tinker with Debian once every two years, as opposed to perusing Fedora update lists daily.
>Hell, with that attitude you could just use Windows.
Hah. Windows breaks more than Arch these days.
>>108210761
>Can you explain the process by which these notifications notify you of what you actually give a fuck about? I
I'd prefer to only get notified if there's updates to applications, drivers, the kernel, the desktop environment, or if there's an urgent security patch; the multi-gigabyte updates you get for Fedora daily are none of the above and I simply don't like perusing the update lists in the off chance that at least one of the above is present in today's update list.
>>108210763
You do realize you're making circular arguments which completely defeat themselves?
I'm not. I'm not saying I want Debian to be a bleeding edge distribution. I'm not saying I need the latest version of Plasma, or any particular app. What I'm saying is that whenever Debian DOES push an update, and push updates it does, it doesn't force me to evaluate whether it's worth installing; Fedora does.
>If you want the latest version of Firefox, you need to use a Flatpak/Appimage/.tar. There is no way around this.
This is not true; Mozilla have a .deb repository for non-ESR Firefox.

Is it really that important to verify the Arch Linux ISO if I torrented it from the official website?

>>108210822
>I'd prefer to only get notified if there's updates to applications, drivers, the kernel, the desktop environment, or if there's an urgent security patch; the multi-gigabyte updates you get for Fedora daily are none of the above and I simply don't like perusing the update lists in the off chance that at least one of the above is present in today's update list.
This ignores the fact that your applications and desktop environment has a bunch of indirect dependencies that affect it.

People constantly make this mistake all of the time.

The way I see Fedora myself is an attempt to be both stable and somewhat fresh. Problem is in practice, I've seen it not being all that more stable than arch for as long as I've used both, and they have some really stale packages which pushed me to go with multiple copr / flatpak. What I've seen mostly is that the biggest issue Fedora users have with Arch is the AUR.

>>108210794
they apparently did with CVE-2023-28531

>>108210833
You probably should verify it all the time because their servers could be compromised. In practice the server is fine, it didn't get hacked and there's probably nothing wrong with your torrent.

>>108210833
Yes, the torrent could be fake.

>>108210795
Yeah I agree. It's a matter of preference. But if you're not someone who updates regularly out of habit then Fedora might not be the best pick. Realistically probably nothing will happen, but maybe you'll miss some apocalyptic codec CVE that pwns you instantly with a png if you go a long time between updates.

>>108210833
There would be news reports everywhere if it was found that the ISO link was hijacked. It's never happened before.

>>108210833
Think about it for a bit, maybe you'll get the answer yourself.

>>108210834
>This ignores the fact that your applications and desktop environment has a bunch of indirect dependencies that affect it.
I agree, and I obviously want to install these updates _alongside_ application and DE updates. The problem is that Fedora will push daily updates for irrelevant crap even when there are no updates available for applications themselves.

>>108210783
which would you recommend out of those two?
>>108210803
what's the opinion on cachy and endeavour?

>>108210839
>their servers could be compromised
so, they can also change the hash on the website.

>>108210761
There is no reasoning behind his posts. He has no idea what he wants and is constantly contradicting himself.

>>108210767
>What's the difference between arch and fedora then?
Different versions of libraries which makes binaries incompatible and thus still requires Flatpak/Appimage for an easier cross-platform software distribution.
Fedora is a point release distro like Debian, except it makes a release every 6 months instead of 2 years. The only thing that's rolling on Fedora is the kernel itself, desktop environments (at least Plasma and Gnome) and web browsers.

>>108210777
I would honestly rather deal with bubblewrapping being an issue once in a blue moon than use outdated packages provided by Debian. But sure, on an Arch-based distro there isn't much of an advantage of using Flatpak outside of the security benefits.
As for the pivot of trust, there's still no difference between a Debian maintainer unofficially managing an application vs a Flatpak maintainer unofficially managing an application. At least with Flatpak it tells you if it's verified or not.

>>108210822
>if there's an urgent security patch
>it doesn't force me to evaluate whether it's worth installing
How is a rolling or semi-rolling release distro supposed to notify you if an update is a security update? Most security issues get randomly fixed without developers even knowing they fixed them as a part of a regular bug fix or a code change. That's why Debian isn't as secure as you think, most packages don't give a shit if a certain pull request fixes a security issue. Not because they don't care about security, but because they haven't even detected a security issue to begin with, or they considered what they're handling a "general bug" instead of a security issue.

>>108210838
Seems it's cause they deemed it a nothingburger. While the Fedora people did not consider the openh264 one a nothingburger, but weren't able to do anything about it.

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/MU3IKREOMSVS6RRAJEV7EGQKTHLCFYKH/

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Think I'm gonna do this install on my thinkpad this evening, it seems like everything is working. I have no courage to do the same on my desktop PC though, I'll see how stable it is over upgrades over time on my laptop first. I don't like BTRFS, it seems immature when compared to how ZFS is designed and how ZFS just works like magic once you've set it up properly. Also I've read that BTRFS in RAID(x) may eat your data even today.

>>108210835
why would fedora users have an issue with the aur?

>>108210850
Yes, but that update doesn't exist in a vacuum. If an application or your desktop environment depends on it as a dependency then that update may fix a bug that would otherwise cause your app or desktop to be buggy.
>>108210855
They can't change the GPG signing key which you hopefully obtained from a different key server and already knew which key is the authentic real key to compare against.