79-page paper on how people who can't code took over the projects built by people who canhttps://files.catbox.moe/uezu4x.pdfDebian 2026 DPL election. One candidate. Diversity platform. Nobody else showed up. That's where the oldest community distro is now.GNOME hired a literal shaman who sold flavored water as Executive Director. Harvard degree, zero commits. Nine months later she quit and they started firing people. The guy who invented Timsort, the sorting algorithm inside Python and Java and Android, got suspended three months for saying CoC enforcement could ruin careers. LLVM lost 4,344 commits worth of contributor because he wouldn't sign a code of conduct. NixOS founder pushed out by a petition, then the moderators who replaced him resigned too.Ehmke claims $750K raised for her ethical source nonprofit. Open Collective shows $8,451. Her CV lists an Omidyar Group exec as personal reference. Same Omidyar that funds her org and picked her as a Luminary. The paper maps every node in the funding network.GitHub ran their open source survey in 2017 and 2024. In between 100K+ projects adopted codes of conduct. Every measured category of harassment went up. Every single one.22 theoretical frameworks including peer-reviewed studies showing narcissistic grandiosity correlates with progressive activism (r=0.19-0.21) while genuine altruism shows zero correlation. Bioleninism explaining why governance coalitions are so cohesive. Graeber's bullshit jobs taxonomy mapping perfectly onto Community Manager and DEI Director positions. Full counter-strategy playbook. Predictions through 2030 covering EU CRA, UK Online Safety Act, and AI-automated CoC enforcement.
Guys, is coffee bad for you???
>>108439680As if I needed a 79 page thesis on this to know CoCs are brown and foid coded shit.
already triggered nocoders whose only response is "delete this!!!!" >>108439680
weak men letting subhumans trample everything they spent their lives building because they're afraid of being called racist
not reading that school shooter manifesto, but you can fork the project, if you do not like it.
>>108439667Fucking BUMP NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>108439757This is beside the pointTake more HRT and spread legs.
You brought this onto yourselves.
>>108439735many such cases
>>108439757What's wrong with school shooting?
>>108439768i am not a tranny. i just feel like reading a manifesto on a topic i knew about is worthless. if anything i support the people in getting back their own projects. but you cannot do much but just label a lot of these lost. just look at one of the projects mentioned that is also probably the most used one : python - it is literally a language that still at some points mentions version 2 and still uses old versions. the debian project is also going down - like all of these software technologies are just history basically. instead of reading manifestos, just make your own and gatekeep.
Didn't read the paper but op is interesting. Many of these projects are posted up by Big tech... To much money and they start doing woke nonsense to spend it. Easy to see why so many devs have disdain for foss, even when benefiting from those projects... Imagine if ffmpeg wasn't foss
>>108439792..... i do not know if you are trolling or american... russians have some school shootings too....are you american, russian or troll? chinese have school stabbings so i know you are not chinese. anyway - it is retarded and i was making a joke. if you decided to be an incel chud student, stop being a retard and just play video games.
>>108439801libtards dont have the iq to think two moves ahead and realize they are activist cattle cheering for big tech. so they need a front like a foss project begging for money support and free promotion and defending it online from baddies while mozilla CEO makes 18M a year
>>108439667So what? If someone wants to be the leader they should step up and make it happen.
>>108439667It’s over. Competence crisis is coming and it will kill us all>linux was subverted by trannies and now retards are in charge>windows is being destroyed by jeets and vibeslop>apple is gay and indianStallman please save us
>>108439798>instead of reading manifestos, just make your own and gatekeep.The study includes a section on counterstrategies
>>108439884idk how to say it in a more simple way but 90% of people are like me: i want to use software, or make software, i do not want to read manifesto, prepare for ideological combat or even debate other people. i just want to code, or vibe or whatever. reading manistos is for soldiers and school shooters.
if your open source project even has positions other than "coder", your lost the plot
>>108439667kept lurking /g/ for 1h longer than planned and this shows up on my boardI don't think anyone is going to come up with a gem that tops this in 2026
>>108439898Open source is inherently political.
>>108439667ftfy
>>108439922do you think all people want to be political? some just do not want to deal with politics and shit. imagine your shock when i tell you that some people go to work to ... work.
>>108439898Fuck off, then?
>>108439667This actually looks like good reading.
>>108439947hmm yea, not the thread for me. but i root for you guys. i hope we get to a point where less politics are present in programming and software and the people pushing destructive politics need to go.
>>108439667It is extremely important for you to know that she is not the leader of Debian yet. They can reject her using a "NotA" (None of the Above) vote, which would mean that the entire process (including nominations) starts all over again. Will they do this? Who knows, but there is some pushback on the mailing lists. Otherwise I think this "parasitism" is a good thing to be studied.
this seems way too professional and academic for me to not fall asleep but I'll give it a readthanks for actually posting something high effort and not related to shit flinging and/or trannies (well... you get what I mean) on this god forsaken board
>>108439667>22 theoretical frameworks including peer-reviewed studies showing narcissistic grandiosity correlates with progressive activism (r=0.19-0.21) while genuine altruism shows zero correlationso the narcissists are the only worthy contributors, hehehe. always knew that
>>108439735sad but true
A high quality post? On this website? On the technology board? At this time of year?
>>108439667>she quit and they started firing peopleAfter she quit? Then who is responsible if not the diversity foid?
>>108440061you don't seem to understand the disease progressiononce one of these things is in a position of power they proceed the hire infinite copies of themselves until the entire organization collapses
>>108439667>Omidyar GroupI heard that name before.>https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/mystery-solved-left-wing-billionaire-pierre-omidyar-bankrolls-shadowy-anti-musk-group/Now I recognize it. Its a french communist billionaire
>>108440154what's the cure?
>>108440186All ideological push to get the commies to takeover the tech industry
>>108440189strong men
>>108440189
>>108440207define "strong" in this context
>>108440214if you have to ask then you are the problem
>>108440189There are no cures, only solutions.
>>108439667How do I keep my code out of the hands of these loons?The +N license?Are there other offensive licenses, or other means to make my stuff radioactive to these types?Also, I assume github only accepts kosher stuff, so is my only opion to host my stuff on a personal website? What abot sourceforge? What's their disposition towards all this?
>>108440214I would make it a requirement to have mandatory experience at a physical sport at the state level and to be physically fit. Mandatory medal at some sport competition, at the very least at a local level. Weeds out 90% of the troons, the pajeets, the women, the faggot nerds, the redditors, etc.
>>108439964Debian died when they rammed though systemd. Or maybe it's fairer to say it was the death blow and she's been running for a nice thicket to die in ever since.It was the last time I spent real brain calories following the project under the assumption of good faith only to find there was none. Reason I bring it up is because of what you posted. The easiest way to corral direct democracy is to manipulate the question being voted on. That's how they rammed through systemd. And surely you understand that someone running unopposed, a write in or a veto is not likely to succeed. Same shit different day.
>>108440241I don't think it would be too hard to host Gitea or something similar on your own VPS, although I've never had the need
>>108440241+"I stand with ICE"
>>108439667>Full counter-strategy playbook.Okay, you piqued my interest, fren, but not enough to read 79-pages explaining how the shit hit the fan when we watched it happen live here the past few years.Can you five a tl;dr on these strategies?
>>108440298Actually that's smart. No one would bat an eye at github censoring +NIGGER, but if you force them to commit increasingly extreme censorship of mundane things that trigger leftoids the mask falls off.
>>108440298>>108440315Not a bad idea.It's silly that this kind of strategy is necessary these days, but I guess this problem isn't going away any time soon.
>>108439898living is political, you are either with me or with my enemy. This apathy of yours serves my enemy, so you are my enemy.
>>108440214Willpower, agency, a sex bot gf at home.
>>108440241>How do I keep my code out of the hands of these loons?Proprietary & Closed Source Software (PCSS) is the remedy to the FOSS disease.
bump and i hope you plan to properly publish thisit doesn't even show on google searchalso some criticism: this paper subscribes to the jewish left-right dichotomy
>>108440809FOSS isn't itself bad.The pronoun lunatics are the problem.I just want to give my code away to the subset of humanity that doesn't include them.
>>108440809If closed source was synonym of quality Microsoft wouldn't be infested with indians and AI. They might be a different problem but both of these people don't know how to code and are there just to multiply like a cancer.
>>108439667I read through this post just to make sure NixOS was in it. Watching your OS distro implode was really depressing. They really fucked over a good project.
i kneel
like why the fuck does your foss project need non-programmers? why does a text editor need a president and a pr tranny?
>>108440186He's the guy that bankrolls Tayor Lorenz iirc.
I already knew all this, but I also wish you luck in your effort.
>>108441689>>108440186French commies are objectively evil. They even make Lenin seem reasonable. They go back to French Revolution larping instead. Not that much actual communism.
>>108439667>unmeritocratic system underperformsi am shockcoc rots projects because it becomes a weapon used by some maintainers against othersnonprofits suffer managerial bloat (see: mozilla, wikimedia) when they contract: those in managerial positions can defend their jobs more than othersthis has been common knowledge foreverdo you even watch lundkike?
>>108440241>Are there other offensive licenses, or other means to make my stuff radioactive to these types?the GPL in general
>>108442110Corporations hate Freedom, Libre is the way.
>>108439700the sad truth is that what is very obvious will never the less be completely ignored by the majority until something like this is released, i.e. "SOURCE???"also checked
>>108439667totally forgot about that coraline troon and that even the github faggots couldn't put up with him.
>>108439667>This is the “Cathedral” described by Curtis Yarvin: dropped
>The combined effect: by 2028–2030, any commercially significant FOSS project serving EUor UK markets will face a compliance matrix spanning CRA (product security), AI Act (AIcomponents), DSA (platform moderation), and OSA (content safety). Meeting these require-ments without a formal governance structure (foundation, steward, fiscal sponsor) will beeffectively impossible.>Prediction 1: By 2030, the EU/UK regulatory framework will have forced 60–80% of com-mercially significant FOSS projects into formalized governance structures (foundations, stew-ards, nonprofit sponsors), creating a historically unprecedented expansion of the institutionalniche available for capture by non-technical governance actors.Effectively FOSS is dead within the next decade, unless the EU dies as an organization. No single person will be able to do and respect all the legal technicalities just to do some dumb open sores project.
>>108439667The criticism that FOSS is being destroyed by Oligarchic assholes using equalitarian arguments as cover is valid but this whole text comes apart when you start to notice that the author is a terminally online and retarded Indian who spends his entire day dickriding other indians when larp as "Real American right-wingers" for elon bucks
>>108440189proper competition with a strong libre meritocratic mentality in devs, maintainers, distributors and contributing users i guess
>>108442465just have your project be illegal in the EU
>>108439667>how people who can't code took over the projects built by people who canwell thats the story of eveything from america online to microsoft, sun, netware, lotus,sinclair etc etc
>>108442727stop shitting on about the EU it's boring and irrelevent, the first places to introduce age verification laws were US states, Australia, the UK and Brazil. You sound really really stupid and brainwashed by dictatorsloppa from Russia where you can get vanned for anything.
>>108439667thanks OP a subject dear to my heart, by the way no different in corporates that were at the heart of creating personal computing like microsoft, sun, america online, compuserv, all hijacked by marketing drones from inside. People forget Bill Gates was forced to resign from his own company because he asked a staff member if she would like to go on a date.
>>108439667Sounds interesting, saved.
>>108440809>>How do I keep my code out of the hands of these loons?>Proprietary & Closed Source Software (PCSS) is the remedy to the FOSS disease.1000% BASEDOBFUSCIATED COMPILERS FOR THE WIN
>>108442429I think it's pretty dumb to refuse to read things authored by people you hate. A lot of people misrepresent the writings of people on 'the other side' on purpose.
>>108439667Its the same story everywhereIn small companies, there is the CEO and a team of engineers. The CEO gets the engineers whatever they need to do the job. The product is released, it makes money.When the company grows, HR, admin, finance, marketing and sales come in. Engineering voices get drowned out.That said, companies where finance and sales are dominant are always miserable places, but companies where marketing is dominant can have an 80% chance of being miserable but the rest 20% companies are pretty great places to work. Engineering led companies are rare because all the petty faggots can't survive without their tribal dominance bullshit
>>108442808I don't hate curtis yarvin he's just a brainlet who likes to spout a lot of history and then make the most ridiculous interpretations that serve his narratives
really good read actuallyfunnily enough I think the same is true of military institutions in peacetime
>>108440809Honestly, yes. FOSS was great when only a small number of mentally sound white men were involved, but a poor fit for the modern era. The only way to survive is by treating your project like a dictatorship while maintaining an iron grip on your source code. Any less and you will be harassed, demonized, and robbed.And it's only going to get worse, you're already seeing non-coding transsexuals using AI to rewrite source code with minimal changes and declaring it a new project with a different license.
>>108442812marketing and hr always eat companies out from the insie like tumors until they turn into advertising agencies and contractor vendorsIn the military very often in peacetime those with zero expeience or apitude for warfare also tend to advance over those who do, until warfare occurs and it mecomes meritocracy by apitude through sheer necessity (and if this does not occur, defeat) only for the situation to immediately atrophy back during peacetime
people who have things to lose should never interact with people who have nothing to lose
>>108439667>her
>FOSS FOSS FOSSYou are a bunch of niggers.Nothing more than cucks that have given into the paradigm distracting from Free Software.You are part of the problem.
>>108439667What in the name of fuck is bioleninism?
>>108443121in short its basically a political confederation of the biologically inferior, read spandrell's work on this.
>>108439667>anonymous upload service PDF link on anonymous djungarian saddle making bulletin board
>>108443121its when plants and fish and shit glow in the dark
>>108439792reducing student headcounts reduces the municipal budget allocation for next year
>>108439667this is a microcosm of all of society and perhaps even human history
>>108439700This.You know I'm glad this place exists. It's a tiny pool of sanity in a desert of bullshit.
>>108439898Wake up soldier, we are in a war.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nTwBF7dM7g
>>108440756Plato said if you like politics you're a bad person.
>>108444281I hate politics. But between living as a hermit, being carried around by the will of others or genociding everyone else, I pick politics.
>>108439667AI slop
>>108440241just telling them no when they want to put gay flags in your project, or pronouns, or replace blacklist/master/etc. just letting them know you arent going to bend over to suck them off on demand is repellent enough to these types.
>>108444355How is it AI slop?
>>108439667if codetards are so good at managing projects, then why do they keep losing control of their projects?
>>108439700On paper just an agreement to say "don't be an asshole" in't a terrible thing, But CoCs seem to always seem to go beyond that.
>>108439667It's hard not to feel that the liberal willingness to be progressive is abused by hostile parties to kneecap and fragment groups who could be a problem for them in the future.
>>108440270>>108439964>Debian diedI thought that Debian was the go-to distro for servers...
>>108445490A dumb pajeeta will win the debain election and flood debian with more jeets (literally what she said). It's over
>>108439700The paper isn't for you.
Tech is basically the real engineers vs the MBAs and managers/suits right now, it's unreal
>>108439735Right.But weakness is also being too lazy to write, or at least read and promote highly literate, robust, well-researched and well-argued papers meant to fight the evil. Shitposting on 4chan is pissing in the wind.
>>108444281source?
>>108444813You think?Not to be rude but are you only just noticing this? Liberals have been systematically mindraped by "progressives" (ideological marxists) for decades. Modern feminism is not liberal and has been marxist since the 1970s at least. Socialists and outright communists were a problem since the early 20th century. They ALWAYS make fake appeals to liberal values.>>108439898Nobody wants to stand up for righteousness. They do it because they have to. They do it to defend their homes, their families, their way of life.You admit values, you admit what you want(good software, etc). But you are too blind to recognize a threat those values and not only won't you lift a finger to defend it, you complain and promote despair and apathy among people who would defend you.
>>108444281"a political mind is a troubled mind"?
>>108444281>Plato said
>>108444800>On paper just an agreement to say "don't be an asshole" in't a terrible thingWhy shouldn't you be able to be an asshole?Maybe the person deserved it.
>>108439667based. lucid writing and always good to see people making an effort to combat enshitification of everything. this is a ton of work to put together.I would keep any left/right dichotomy to a minimum as it can aggravate some people that would otherwise agree with the general goals here (obviously not talking about the crazies, their minds seldom change).An interesting perspective to explore is one regarding the eventual quality and capabilities of technological output. We see that these FOSS structures are fickle. The political ruling class only wants more control - gimme gimme gimme. Their goal is technologically disenfranchise the population and pull up the ladder. but there are other influential sectors that rely on technological prowess to accomplish (geopolitical) goals, MIC in particular. If the destruction of FOSS affects their capabilities, they would be more willing to support it.
>>108445574I swear I'm this close to thrown $200 to Claude to vibecode a package manager in Go and maintain a LFS from myself. I wouldn't even need thousands of packages, just the bare minimum for a desktop and some servers. I'm tired of all this shit.
>>108444800If CoC is based on spirits and vibes a dedicated SJW will stretch it to cover any behavior. If CoC is based on measurable rules a dedicated asshole will construct a way to go around them.The only wining move is not to play.
>>108445938what's MIC?
>>108446216Military Industrial Complex.
>>108439667>The guy who invented Timsort, the sorting algorithm inside Python and Java and Android, got suspended three months for saying CoC enforcement could ruin careers. LLVM lost 4,344 commits worth of contributor because he wouldn't sign a code of conduct. NixOS founder pushed out by a petition, then the moderators who replaced him resigned too.Source?
>>108446693They're in the pdf.
>>108439833>libtards dont have the iq to think two moves ahead and realize they are activist cattle cheering for big tech. so they need a front like a foss project begging for money support and free promotion and defending it online from baddies while mozilla CEO makes 18M a yearwhat are they doing that makes them cattle?
>>108446703>They're in the pdf.Which page?
>>108439667>https://files.catbox.moe/uezu4x.pdfI skimmed a few pages. >This is the “Cathedral” described by Curtis Yarvin: a decentralized ideological production system driven by convergent interests, in which each node, foundation, nonprofit, activist, media outlet, pursues its own rational self-interest, and the aggregate result is indistinguishable from coordinated action. The Cathedral does not conspire. It selects.Even without getting into the issues with Yarvin's ideas. If you want to refer to an idea mentioned by a person you NEED to cite it. If you can't even link to one of his free substack articles where he discusses the concept, then your essay isn't very good.Link to his article: https://graymirror.substack.com/p/a-brief-explanation-of-the-cathedral
>>108446734>Link to his article: https://graymirror.substack.com/p/a-brief-explanation-of-the-cathedralthere was an article i was thinking of that rebutes this, but i can't find it. and i dont remember much of it.I'm not going to tear apart every sentence in his substack post, but the idea of the cathedral is very flawed. Yarvin theorizes a lot of stuff but backs none of it up. For one he doesn't give any examples of how the institutions of the supposed cathedral are on the same page. He fails to address the argument that different groups might have the same ideas in other fields because they're obviously right after bringing it up in regards to mathOne of the things he theorizes is that underground ideas will be better than the mainstream and that's clearly not true. He gives the example where dissidents in an oppressive society will be more like to have good ideas than professors in a liberal society. Yarvin says:>Your intuitive answer is that you’ll get better, more premium content from Mundanan dissidents than Mutopian professors. Let’s look at why you’re right.And that's clearly bullshit. In the realms of scientific research, there's a lot of research that you can't conduct without funding or expensive machines. In general in regards to freedom of thought, broader than merely in regards to science, there's nothing preventing oppressive hierarchies from forming or bad ideas spreading inside the dissident groups in mundana. An example of this is hamas's poorly thought out attack on israel on october 7th. If dissidents were generally better at creating ideas, they wouldn't do something that stupid.
>>108440189Becoming "toxic."
>>108440214Men who tell women "no."
>>108439667page 11:>The GitHub Open Source Survey of 2017 (n=5,495) and its 2024 follow-up (n=8,452) pro-vide longitudinal data. Between 2017 and 2024, a period during which CoC adoption accel-erated dramatically, contributors reported a significant increase in interpersonal challenges, including threats of violence, impersonation, sustained harassment, stalking, and doxxing. The behavioral impact shifted: experiencing rudeness, stalking, and name-calling became more strongly associated with stopping contributions, adopting pseudonyms, and avoiding communities. Despite (or perhaps because of) mass CoC adoption, the problems CoCs were supposed to solve worsened.page 49:>Perhaps the most damaging empirical finding is the paradox revealed by the GitHub Open Source Surveys (2017 vs. 2024): despite massive CoC adoption during this period, interpersonal challenges in open source communities increased significantly. Contributors reported more threats of violence, harassment, and stalking in 2024 than in 2017.You need to link to the page where the survey is available.Anyways, This is not a paradox and it fails to understand that correlation is not causation. We don't know why more of those things were reported. Unless the survey only measured projects with codes of conduct, it doesn't tell us anything about codes of conduct.It doesn't isolate the cause, and it fails to determine if there were any other factors that could have caused an increase in conflict over that time period.
>>108447054page 40:>This finding does not prove that CoCs caused the deterio-ration (correlation does not imply causation), but it definitively falsifies the strong claim that mass CoC adoption improved community healthNo, it doesn't falsify that claim. The survey doesn't only measure communities that had CoC.It also doesn't check if more cases are being reported and people are more willing to talk about it, or just that more harassment is taking place.
page 28:>Seven primary cases were selected: Contributor Covenant/Ehmke complex (2014–2026), GNOME Foundation (2023–2024), NixOS (2024–2025), Python/Tim Peters (2024), LLVM/Espindola (2018), Debian DPL Elections (2026), and the philanthropic grant ecosys-tem. Three control cases were selected: OpenBSD (never adopted external CoC), PHP (re-jected Contributor Covenant), and Ruby (creator Matz rejected CoC imposition).This seems like a bad sample size.page 35:>The Peters case confirms that no level of technical contribution provides immu-nity from governance action.Why should being good at your job allow you to break whatever rules you want?
>>108447188>GNOME FoundationGnome was gone ten years before this.
>>108444599It is written by an AI.
>>108447188>Why should being good at your job allow you to break whatever rules you want?except he didnt break any rules, and he was banned purely because he criticized the cocsuckers.
Every "issue" a /pol/ troon screeches about is in 90% of cases self inflicted
>>108447316>except he didnt break any rules, and he was banned purely because he criticized the cocsuckers.then go into detail about that instead
>>108446994I'd find your argument more plausible if we weren't many years into a replication crisis.
>>108447397it did. there just isnt much to say about it.he participated in a conversation pointing out issues the coc and how its enforced, tried to explain his views and reach compromise with them, and as the other side was completely unwilling to discuss the topic in good faith they banned himif you need more you could try reading the original discussion thread.
>>108447462>if you need more you could try reading the original discussion thread.why wasn't that cited then?
>>108447446>I'd find your argument more plausible if we weren't many years into a replication crisis.Why is that relevant to his theory?
>>108439667BICHA FOR DPL 2026
>>108439667And what? You expect me to read?
>>108439667>movement gets taken over by identity politics >infighting destroys the movementwhere have I heard that before?
>>108447816smells like bs
>>108440214ur a faggot
>>108446994>For one he doesn't give any examples of how the institutions of the supposed cathedral are on the same page.You're a retard that seriously needs the liberal-progressive consensus explained to you? lmao
>>108439667>Ehmke claims $750K raised for her ethical source nonprofit. Open Collective shows $8,451.I'm sure this is actually true, it's just 741K went into her pocket or into the izzat of her caste.
>>108439735It's worse than that, they're afraid of being part of an out-group. They see that their group is being taken over and instead of standing up, they decide to lay down because at least they'll all be trampled together.>userswho cares, they didn't do this for their end-users in the first place.
>>108439898This is ultimately the problem: Techie people want to do techie things, they are introverts and find social combat with other people to be exhausting.Meanwhile the political types, they find it thrilling. Literally, it's all they live for is to go someplace peaceful and fuck it all up. So they see these open source projects which have been stable and peaceful for y ears and think "I think I can ruin this and get lots of clout on my resume" and then they go do it. Before, it was a requirement to be capable of coding to even join the IRC channels and mailing lists of the people who code. Now, literally anyone can fucking do it. I wouldn't be shocked if half of the people on the mailing lists are AI agents at this point just following orders from their boomer boss who can't make hello world in the terminal.
>>108447959>You're a retard that seriously needs the liberal-progressive consensus explained to you? lmaoIf you are trying to describe sociopolitical theories it helps to have examples rather than just "Dude trust me".He also doesn't really go into detail about what he considers "being on the same page". How different can something be before he considers it no longer "on the same page".
>>108445738>You admit values, you admit what you want(good software, etc). But you are too blind to recognize a threat those values and not only won't you lift a finger to defend it, you complain and promote despair and apathy among people who would defend you.This is like saying you're making the world a worse place because you're not out trying to gun pedos down in the streets. The question is the limit to how much you're willing to do to defend it. So far the limit that anybody can see is shitposting on mailing lists, those mailing lists are controlled by entities that have already made up their minds: you're not going to change them. Your option is to splinter it off to go be alone and forgotten or conform and try changing from the inside. But to change from the inside, you need to be the literal millionaires who are actuallyt changing things.
>>108439831Oof... Yikes...I literally cannot with the chuds on this board, fellow redditor
>>108446171>>108444800It's because CoCs are never made with the intention on keeping everyone polite. notice how these communities functioned just fine, better in fact, when no such thing was in place? The only reason people would want to codify it is because they want to game the rules but understand that if the rules aren't strict and are in fact flexible and based on what people consider to be a sniff test: people would out their sociopathic behavior immediately. So instead, they make CoCs which always have clauses in them to let them say "Anyone who opposes me needs to shut up, I'm the only one with a voice and I make all decisions unilaterally". We can see it happening with Arch and Age Verification now where CoC is being used to shut down any negative discussion, technical or not, of age verification or its implementation. This was the end-goal of CoCs all along: allow fascism, oppress democracy.
>>108447959>You're a retard that seriously needs the liberal-progressive consensus explained to you? lmaoTo elaborate on this post:>>108448019>He also doesn't really go into detail about what he considers "being on the same page". How different can something be before he considers it no longer "on the same page".Yarvin clearly considers media and colleges part of this "cathedral" as he says "For instance: in 2021, Harvard, Yale, the Times and the Post are on the same page." There's clearly plenty of stuff that the groups are not on the same page on. And even more stuff if we include democrat politicans in this group, For instance beating kids. Pretty much every one with a relevant degree agrees that spanking is bad for children, yet democrats are not going to ban it. They dislike it more than republicans do, but they aren't close to banning it.
>>108448054thats not what fascism is.>notice how these communities functioned just fine, better in fact, when no such thing was in place?There's no evidence presented that this is the cause.
>>108448054>>108446171The clauses in CoCs that are basically "THIS DISCUSSION IS TOO HEATED" without mentioning: who decides if something is too heated? Someone who is particularly fragile things anyone saying "no" is too much for them. If someone is able to decide that something is too heated to discuss, then they're functionally the only person who can speak. Anyone else gets the equivalent to a Gulag sentence because Dear Leader felt they were being a little too 'heated'.
>>108448019>>108448064>Orange man bad (and raped kids)>Capitalism le heckin evil>Billionaires bad (and murdering them is a good thing chud)>Heckin support Ukraine >Heckin support Palestine and dismantle le illegitimate apartheid state>Support trannies and DEI>Reverse racism doesn't exist chud>Minorities doing bad in society is racism and if you disagree, well heh you just proved yourself racist>Le american imperialism>Irrational blind russophobia and conspiracytardismOther shit I can't be bothered to riff on right now (i mean seriously? how are you not aware of what the party line and accepted consensus of the left is)I can't even believe you brought up "spanking kids" as a point here like that has any fucking relevancy to the political zeitgeist
>>108448082>If someone is able to decide that something is too heated to discuss, then they're functionally the only person who can speak. Anyone else gets the equivalent to a Gulag sentence because Dear Leader felt they were being a little too 'heated'.That was the case even before a Code of conduct was added to what ever project you talk about. If the admins dont like your discussion they always could have done that.
>>108448071>thats not what fascism is.That is what fascism is. By definition:https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism>2. a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial controlThe problem is: You don't want to admit that your actions strongly resemble a dictator, deciding who gets to speak and not speak while oppressing actual democratic discussion.>There's no evidence presented that this is the cause.There's tons of evidence that this was the case back when CoCs were first being pushed:https://shujisado.org/2025/09/30/why-heavy-codes-of-conduct-are-unnecessary-for-most-open-source-projects/There's even research that they've caused more harm than good:https://conf.researchr.org/details/icse-2026/icse-2026-research-track/226/Beyond-Adoption-Examining-the-Evolution-and-Impact-of-Codes-of-Conduct-on-Open-Sourc>revious research has explored the motivations behind CoC adoption and the content changes made, but it remains unclear how different communities are using and maintaining CoCs over time after the initial adoption and how the presence of a CoC impacts a community>Oftentimes, the initial addition of a code of conduct does not involve much community participation and input. However, a controversial moderation act is capable of inciting mass community feedback and backlash.But again: You are a fascist, so you do not want to listen to any of the opposition or any of the evidence, your mind is made up and all evidence to the contrary need to either be diminished to shut down, like your kind has done before: >>108448082
So when are we going to develop NiggerOS to make FOSS computing free from CoC faggotry?
>>108448094I look at some of these examples and it feels like you have no idea what you are talking about. the left does not agree on all this.
>>108448097>don't believe your lying eyes Shut up you fucking retard. If you wanted to have a community discussion, you could have a community discussion before, and the community could agree to it like a democracy could. Having one person being able to shut it down because "SHUT UP, COC CONCERNS" is the other way of power tripping with "SHUT UP, I DON'T WANT YOU TO SPEAK". Here's proof of that: You're on 4chan where you're not allowed to shut anyone up. You could be talking about this on your home, at reddit, where dozens of mods would gladly shut everyone up so you could be the last word on everything: You don't. You come here instead because even YOU know these systems are broken.
>>108448114>https://conf.researchr.org/details/icse-2026/icse-2026-research-track/226/Beyond-Adoption-Examining-the-Evolution-and-Impact-of-Codes-of-Conduct-on-Open-SourcThis page also says CoCs are good:>Our results show that OSS communities with a CoC attract more new contributors and decrease the number of existing contributors disengaging from the community in the long term.
>>108448123>the left does not agree on all this.whatever retard. ill keep observing reality and you'll keep living in some fantasy world
>>108448128>Shut up you fucking retard. If you wanted to have a community discussion, you could have a community discussion before, and the community could agree to it like a democracy could. Having one person being able to shut it down because "SHUT UP, COC CONCERNS" is the other way of power tripping with "SHUT UP, I DON'T WANT YOU TO SPEAK".What prevented an admin from banning you because you said something they disliked before formal CoCs?
>>108448120>I'm going to argue with the merriam webster dictionary instead of your postOdd concession but I'll take it.>>108448130>This page also says CoCs are good:Keep reading idiot. It says CoCs are prone to abuse and adoption rarely involves community input. AKA all of the things that are wrong with dictatorships.
>>108448147>>I'm going to argue with the merriam webster dictionary instead of your postI didn't finish reading your post or the context I thought you were a leftist calling something fascist which is why I sperged
>>108448144>What prevented an admin from banning you because you said something they disliked before formal CoCs?Because that admin only had power because of the community's consensus before. If someone was being a power tripping sperg, out they went and out their access went. Now it's just "I don't need to argue with you, COC concerns, topic closed" and there's proof it's being abused this way: >>108448082 this is from the archinstall PRs.
>>108448123are you still talking about mainstream left leaning organizations, are you including fringe lefty internet communities when you talk about the left.id probably leave out the capitalism/billionaire bits myself, since most of them are huge corporate bootlickers as long as they fly rainbow flags and worship diversity.
>>108448130>cherrypickingIt's giving the good with the bad. The good is: More contributors, the bad is: Those installed members are impossible to remove and the community's input no longer matters.
>>108448094>Other shit I can't be bothered to riff on right now (i mean seriously? how are you not aware of what the party line and accepted consensus of the left is)>I can't even believe you brought up "spanking kids" as a point here like that has any fucking relevancy to the political zeitgeistHow are these supposed to be examples of institutional capture? A lot of these are barely related to colleges at all, so how are they supposed to tie into the idea of the cathedral? Even moving past that, Yarvin doesn't address the issue that different groups might all agree on something because it's obviously correct (as he brings up about math).Let's look at a few of them you bring up.>>Orange man bad (and raped kids)Since when does harvard publish research papers about trump molesting kids? >>Capitalism le heckin evil>>Billionaires bad (and murdering them is a good thing chud)Washington post is owned by a billionaire. Harvard and yale give out MBAs. Them and a lot of prestigious colleges have got billion dollar endowments. The new york times is literally a publicly traded company. $NYT>>Heckin support Palestine and dismantle le illegitimate apartheid stateThis is clearly not unanimous on the american left wing.example: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/biden-administration-notifies-congress-of-planned-8-billion-weapons-sale-to-israel>>Minorities doing bad in society is racism and if you disagree, well heh you just proved yourself racistWhat would it be then?>>Le american imperialismWhat are you even saying here?
>>108448130>more "don't believe your lying eyes"jump off a bridge you useless vermin. we have real proof happening right now that these were only put into place so all open source becomes a dictatorship with one person running everything.
>>108448156>Because that admin only had power because of the community's consensus before. Not true though.Someone has to pay server bills. Someone has to be admin of the computer the project files or the forums are hosted on. Someone is in charge of the GIT (or whatever version control you use), and chooses which commits are applied or not.
>>108439667Reading just because I'm curious what "bioleninism" is
>>108448185Coalition of foids and browns, basically.
>>108439667just posting to say that this is an excellent paper that summarized a lot of the rot that has crept into FOSS and tech in generalit really does seem like computing in general has completely gone down the shitter both because of jeetcode and techbros but also because of the rampant politicization and takeover by people who literally, physically, cannot see anything unless it is through some left-right lens
>>108448170I wrote a post and it got deleted somehow and im upset and phoneposting>How are these supposed to be examples of institutional capture?It wasn't I was just listing the party lines of the progressive left since you're somehow ignorant of the political zeitgeist and it's developments>Yarvin doesn't address the issue that different groups might all agree on something because it's obviously correctLeftist liberal-progressivism is the furthest possible thing from being "obviously correct">Washington post is owned by a billionaire. Harvard and yale give out MBAs. Them and a lot of prestigious colleges have got billion dollar endowments.>The new york times is literally a publicly traded company. $NYTAnd yet strangely it doesn't seem stop tenured professors from writing marxist academia wordslop about intersectionality and how capitalism is so fucking bad and awful i mean come on guys are we really still doing this? are we really still doing capitalism? don't you fucking know better by now? why can't we all just be DECENT FUCKING HUMAN BEINGS. try reading the wikipedia page for elite overproduction >This is clearly not unanimous on the american left wing.Politicians are not actually representative of the consensus of the politically awakened masses. The only reason any politician is in power is because of historical accident and coincidence>What are you even saying here?Again, are you somehow unaware of leftist talking points?Read nick land
>>108448256>And yet strangely it doesn't seem stop tenured professors from writing marxist academia wordslop about intersectionality and how capitalism is so fucking bad and awful i mean come on guys are we really still doing this? are we really still doing capitalism? don't you fucking know better by now? why can't we all just be DECENT FUCKING HUMAN BEINGS.And there's tenured professors at harvard arguing for capitalism as well. This fails to show ideological institutional capture.>Politicians are not actually representative of the consensus of the politically awakened masses. The only reason any politician is in power is because of historical accident and coincidenceA large amount of the masses on the right also dislike israel:https://www.brookings.edu/articles/support-for-israel-continues-to-deteriorate-especially-among-democrats-and-young-people/But we aren't talking about the masses, we are talking about yarvins hypothetical cathedral. We are talking about institutions.
>>108439667When will you faggots understand that the people working on the FOSS foundations are getting hired to run the foundations and not the programming parts. They are literally there to handle money.
>>108448280>And there's tenured professors at harvard arguing for capitalism as well.Name one that isn't getting screamed and yelled at by protesting students for being a chud racist or something>A large amount of the masses on the right also dislike israel:I'm well aware, it's very sad that groypertards are fracturing the right over some retarded desert war in what might as well be africa>we are talking about yarvins hypothetical cathedral. We are talking about institutions.Yes and if you are somehow unaware that the greatest spreaders and propagandists of modern liberal-progressive marxist universalism is the academic system and college professors then you are living in some alternative reality bubble and have never seriously engaged with trying to understand and tackle the roots of political leftism in the west.
>>108448337https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_TangI have always known never to touch raku
>>108442011https://dev.to/2colours/raku-community-in-2026-how-my-permanent-ban-came-to-be-89j>>108448347>AudreyYep, but at least he was the one doing the hard work and afaik, not banning people.
>>108448297>Name one that isn't getting screamed and yelled at by protesting students for being a chud racist or somethingmaybe Jason Furman.https://reason.com/2025/06/21/the-lonely-neoliberal/https://www.businessinsider.com/jason-furman-bill-ackman-two-wrongs-dont-make-a-right-2023-10
>>108448297>Yes and if you are somehow unaware that the greatest spreaders and propagandists of modern liberal-progressive marxist universalism is the academic system and college professors then you are living in some alternative reality bubble and have never seriously engaged with trying to understand and tackle the roots of political leftism in the west.That's a separate thing from ideological capture.
>>108448366>Furman has also served as the deputy director of the U.S. National Economic Council,[4] which followed his role as an advisor for the Barack Obama 2008 presidential campaign.1-800-COME-ON-NOW
>>108448378What's wrong with my example? He's not some marxist anti-capitalist.
>>108448375I don't know why you keep bringing up the term ideological capture. The media and academia (what is called "the cathedral") is not FOSS projects and is not the subject of the OP paper. They did not need to be captured, cathedralist universalism is a mutation and evolution of American puritanical protestantism that dropped the god memeplex. Irregardless you should be able to (noticing) the fact that outside of universally derided pet-opposition things like fox news and the occasional rightwing "maybe this woke thing is going a little too far" university professor that ends up having to leave the profession because of protesting students harassing them and calling them a racist chud, its kind of obvious that the media-academia complex has been trending towards the singularity-schelling point of gay race communism ever since black marxist professors became hip and cool in the 60s and then leftists who did terrorist bombings get tenured teaching roles and end up brushing shoulders with obama. It all follows one road - I seriously suggest just actually properly reading a Moldbug work (perhaps "how dickens got pwned" for a genealogical understanding of the left) instead of trying to grasp the constructed-theory of NRx philosophy from a substack post, a paper that mentions yarvin and the cathedral in a single paragraph, and shitposter(s) who can barely stay coherent and are phoneposting >>108448406>He worked for Obama what do you mean you don't think he's dissident of the left
>>108448410>dickensi meant dawkins loli have stuff to do im gonna stop poasting have fun
>>108448410>>He worked for Obama what do you mean you don't think he's dissident of the leftim not calling him a dissident of the left. if you read the posts im replying to, im saying that academia is obviously not solely composed of marxists.
>>108445749>>108444281Dude man, these are terrible misrepesentations. Ive read almost the entire corpus of Plato and am now moving on to aristotle. However, I can say that in Aristotles politics he claimed that man is a political animal, and the higher up and broader of rule you get, the "purer" the decisions become. It makes sense. I mean, how are humans to rule anything without making decisions on how to rule it? And when you get on fundamental questions that impact more people, you have to be purer in you decisions in order to have the best, yet broad effect.Platos forms was about getting to the root meanings of things, because the same words can mean different things. But what _exactly_ is that thing being discusssed? Think about contracts and legal documents defining terms like "we" or "the company". Any serious discussion of matters will need a clearly defined form in order to make any legitimate claim about it.Now, think about how you learn a new thing. At some point, you just "get it" and that slave example really does showcase the mystery of understanding. Is all understanding devine revelation? It certainly seemed like it in that example. I cant say precisely how understanding comes about in people, as Ive only done cursory research in the topic. (3 neuroscience courses, some philosophy books, and anecdotal experience) but I can say for certainty that neuroplasticity alone (and by extension modern AI) does not lead to understanding, and the fundamental question of conciousness remains unanswered.
>LLVM lost 4,344 commits worth of contributor because he wouldn't sign a Code of Conduct.Holy Fuck.
>>108449011Based
>>108440809AGPL is poison for corporations.
>>108439876https://www.palladiummag.com/2023/06/01/complex-systems-wont-survive-the-competence-crisis/
>>108440207>strong menthey do create good times...
>>108443104I now just make the explicit distinction between Open Source and Freedom Software.
>>108439667this is just not technology but almost all western sectors, it has been subverted with a special caste of ideologues retards that will obey the most insane shit for corporate interest
>>108445653>Shitposting on 4chan is pissing in the wind.Actually its pissing in an ocean of piss. /lit/ is down the hall if you want fine writing.
>>108449011Elaborate por favor?
>>108446734>aggregate result is indistinguishable from coordinated actionLike, say, an Invisible Hand?
>>108439667tech projects are a soft target for these kinds of people because generally tech nerds just want to code and be left alone; they collaborate because they must in order to achieve technical goals, but they generally hate that end of things, and when people who supposedly have the social and administrative skills they lack show up and offer to help with nocoder stuff, the techie's response is often "great, here are the keys and the passwords, now i can get back to coding">>108439898 is typical of this attitudethat said, i'm not sure who this essay is for; the Cluster B fucks who've taken over so many projects will either reject it as reeeeeeee fascist Nazi bar-ism or already know and celebrate the situation (depending on their level of self-awareness), the techies already know and hate the situation to the extent that their autism permits, and nobody outside of the bizarre world of working your ass off for free cares>Linux? isn't that that virus my sissy grandson tried to install on my computer????anyway, what an unproductive use of 1000 hours
His counter strategy for 5 (Grant Money) is by far the weakest. Even examples like openbsd are quite small organizations. Not every project can be a lean mean fighting machine by way of the scope of the project. >Diversified micro-funding>Reject conditional grants>Build reserves>Commercial sustainabilityI have to reject outright the magical thinking behind micro funding and 'just don't take the money with the strings' proposals for larger projects again for the scale reasons I mentioned. This really only leaves potential commercialization as a source of independence because to deprive large projects of their capital is to render then unfit for purpose. Whether your contributor's all DIE'd or you can't pay your core infrastructure costs / personnel it doesn't really matter they're different mechanism driving at the same sort of failure.
>>108439667I had resolved myself not to provide the increasingly hostile owners of this website my e-mail address even if that meant I couldn't post, but this post was so interesting to me that I had to respond.Firstly, this is very well-written, but I feel that my commendation is misplaced. It's simply unbelievable - and not in the metaphorical way - that an anonymous human author would dedicate the amount of effort required to produce a thesis of this magnitude. The lack of human attribution on the title page was very suspicious, combined with the fact that the paper is hosted on Catbox. These lead me to suspect that this document was AI-generated. I don't mind AI-generated content when it's sensible and useful - as it is here - but I would've appreciated a disclaimer.This leads me to my second point. Regardless of whether this was AI-generated, the contents within the document are useful enough to be disseminated via more official and respected venues. I fear that link rot will render it effectively inaccessible in no less than 10 years. Please host it on GitHub or elsewhere.
>>108448564You have no idea what you're talking about, pseud>devineLmao
>>108439941More like the agebt provocateurs of the illumimati understand that exporting culture is nore profitable than exporting sugar, firearms, or even women, drugs and slaves. If you can control how people value you control what they value thus prices- cornering the market on everything. They make it political as they ise the legislator to advance their fiat deeper into the temple
>>108448054>>108448082CoCs have been a hilariously effective corporate weapon against FOSS because the devs are social retards who are easily tricked. It's literally just an organizational backdoor, you install it it give a corporation veto power over your decision making. The faggots always fall for it because they tend to have milquetoast leftist political beliefs as well as a craving for acceptance, and the trannies/women pushing the CoC down their throat always couch it in flowery rhetoric.The CoC activists are power hungry narcissists who seek out influence anywhere they can, and microjeet who funds most of them is laughing all the way to be bank.Sadly, people who have a personality capable of telling moralizing CoC activists to fuck off are also not likely to run a successful public-facing FOSS project.
>>108449746It goes well with graebers bs jobs, as it revealed many of these jobs were defined not by the factor input prodiced by the wage labour, but the behavioural and economic profile the fake job instilled as habit. The pencil pushing was useless but the 'useless eater' is distracted 9-5 and has little time but to watch ads after the commute in their mortgaged apartment. Open source stole time back from the bankers so devs could write their own culture (just feel like writing and sharing what they like) angering the banks
>>108439667Read your paper OP; it was alright, though I prefer insightful articles.My main critque is unless this copy is shorter than your intended final version, I would have cut some of the frameworks listed specifically the disident right ones. Not that I disagree with them, but the problem with your included examples were novel terms to elaborate observed patterns to give their audience a morale tecnology to frame modern ills; to cut to the quick they are distracting to remember and they only have a couple payoffs near the end and the reason they were profound are the articles that introduced them rather than your short summaries. They also give the retards who have no intent on reading this an excuse to screech "neon yahtzee!!!" Also Carl Schmit isn't a dissident source, he is a brilliant jurist whom dissidents like to examine as his thoughts exist outside of a neo liberal world order.I would refrain from such casual use of abbreviations, with the sheer amount of refered concepts unless the term comes up repeatedly most of the needed at least one GNAA (Gay Nigger Association of America) reminder text. I found this article hard to follow at times unless I am familiar with the topic so you should cut some redundant concepts to add in more filler text to explain stuff in your analyzied events.
>>108439680no, it's good for youI found a coffee shop accessible via ssh:$ ssh terminal.shop
$ ssh terminal.shop
>>108439667Wow, that's a tour de autism. Very impressive. Citing it is academic suicide of course, could just as well be full 1488.
Why do eunuchs want to control everything on behalf of the government though?
>>108449956Academic suicide sounds like a good move since 2020. Thank you for being suicidal.
Which distros are still maintained by straight white european men?
>>108439667@grok can u summarise this pls
>>108440241You? You don't since you're not making anything with enough value for them to bother. OP shows the interplay between quiet dudes that want to code and the faggot socialites that want to talk to people. The 1st group willingly give up their project to the 2nd because it lets them focus on what they like more. The fact that you want to prevent it means you're not part of 1st group
>>108439667Say no to cockshttps://nocodeofconduct.com/
>>108447188Nobody said it's a sample size. It's not a statistical study.
>>108448253GG2.1.103
>>108449956>could just as well be full 1488.>couldWhat ahead of you there, pal.
>>108439667Aka how vibe coders took over projects built by actual coders.
>>108450815*Way ahead of you there, pal.
>>108450815I searched for 1488/jews/judaism in case I missed something, but I don't see anything.
>>108439700The paper isn't for you, it's for the sort of people who will never read it.
>>108448071>thats not what fascism is.Because it's just an anarcho-tyranny, soft despotism and longhouse and it is described in paper
>>108440809I can definitely imagine a near future where coders invest more time in solo or private-group-developed projects.Especially with growing use of note-taking tools and AI.
>>108439667I will give this a read the abstract is alright, but is there any source on the author? Is it you OP or some other anonymous author? Usually helps to have some credentials.Also skimming through the text some parapraphs sound at least partly written by AI.For example this "It's not Poop. It's Shit." line followed by a cursory summation is almost guaranteed written by a chatbot, it's a classic LLM pattern. So I don't really know much of it is independent thought
>>108440266>I would make it a requirement to have mandatory experience at a physical sport at the state level and to be physically fit. Mandatory medal at some sport competition, at the very least at a local level. you are retarded, just hire actual geeks like in the 90s. everyone is in tech nowadays and actual autistic nerds dont have anything to say because normies make everything globohomo, software and games were better when normalnoids weren't in the industry yet
>>108440241https://plusnigger.com/
>>108442429>mistakes ESR for fucking yidvingo back to winslop and never return you miserable worm
>>108440266Retard.
>>108451641>when you are in a License Threat Group competition and your opponent is Nigger+
>>108450833any criticism of progressive no matter how reasonable or well evidenced will have you treated like literally hitler progressives cannot be reasoned with. they are all insane tribalistic lunatics.
>>108439898>90% of people are like me:let's assume that is true.you have to go through an O(1) process in order to facilitate you references:1) crowd funding 2) legal counsel3) ???4) win
>>108449380>Like, say, an Invisible Hand?more like signaling theory
>>108442808I think Yarvin is not particularly intelligent because I've read anti-democratic liberals like pic related who is clearly a fucking galaxybrain whether I agree with him or not. But yeah the paper's BDFL as defense against the unwashed masses is a really an old line of thought back to Plato. I think it works particularly well for open source because we're looking at a single person's life worth of time in the sample. There's no room for succession to ruin fucking everything like we see in history, not yet not in the sort of sample the paper is looking at. How's openbsd going to do when de Raat buys the farm? I think not well.
>>108446160>vibecode a package manager in Goanother anon is ahead of youhttps://github.com/sauzerOS/hokuto
>>108445811the soft generation of programmers, everyone needs to be coddled and told they're great and never make mistakes, hell I was there at some point in the beginning and got the long end of the stick for years, it hardened my perception and made me consider more factors down the line
>>108449631I don't see how any project can follow all 5 steps at any one time. Maybe step 5 could be feasible for smaller scale projects, but are those projects also going to follow step 3, heavily documenting their code and be ready to fork at any time? The paper does a good job profiling the types of people who try to undermine FOSS. I guess counter strategies are going to involve wishful thinking when when the government is throwing endless monopoly at your enemies.
