Hacking in progress edition>Tech News & Industry InsightsThe Register - https://www.theregister.com/TechCrunch - https://techcrunch.com/Hacker News - https://news.ycombinator.com/Fudzilla - https://fudzilla.com/newsZDNet - https://www.zdnet.com>Software Development & ProgrammingGitHub Trending - https://github.com/trendingDevDocs - https://devdocs.ioJavaScript, CSS, HTML sandbox - https://jsfiddle.netMDN Web Docs - https://developer.mozilla.orgStack Overflow Blog - https://stackoverflow.blogThe Missing Semester of Your CS Education - https://missing.csail.mit.edu>IT Operations & InfrastructureAWS Service Health Dashboard - https://status.aws.amazon.comCloudflare System Status - https://www.cloudflarestatus.comDownDetector - https://downdetector.comMicrosoft Azure Status - https://status.azure.comMicrosoft Office 365 Status - https://portal.office.com/servicestatus>Career AdviceWorkers of the Tech World, Unite! - https://utaw.tech/Interview Prep - https://www.wikihow.com/Calculate-Severance-PayBuilding a Resume - https://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/rants.htmSalary Stuff - https://benefits.va.gov/BENEFITS/Applying.aspEmotional Support - https://www.erowid.org/library/People who will be going to /utwg/ shortly - https://layoffs.fyiPrevious: >>109224961
Hi @anongood morning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIRnw8Fpq6o
>[5] Thank you for applying!
Anyone WANT to get laid off right now?>B-but it's a bad job marketYeah, I can take the year to two years off. I cannot handle all this AI nonense and I HATE the teams I support/work with. It's annoying since I overly spent and my company "HOLDS" our bonus/company match in some stupid retirement bullshit where you can't pull out the money unless you of course retire or leave the company. I sorta want to withdraw that shit and start putting it into some shit that would actually grow.
>>109238561You're gonna forfeit like 30% if you pull it out and don't put in another retirement bank.
>>109238561Don't bother pulling out of 401k you lose so much money its just free taxes to the government its unreal. If you already have 2 years in savings then you should dump what you would normally save into your own investments full tilt no bullshit anything that can make you money. Likewise if you already live in a house beyond even 12 months of savings/max 401k you would save an ass load of money paying it off early.
what do QA monkeys actually do all day
>>109238561>Yeah, I can take the year to two years off. I cannot handle all this AI nonense and I HATE the teams I support/work with.same, but I could take 5+ years no problem, cuz i got my own house (a shitty one... but it's all I need), though I'm trying to invest it so that I can recover at least 2x in the next 10 years or so.
>>109238587>>109238607meh I can make that back EASILY. it's stupid it getting locked in some stupid dogshit ETF. I live at home but I already got rid of the shame and fuck it man we're never buying a house. I want to get fired ASAP so I can book my trip to japan and return to some comfy EI NEETBUX and chill for a bit. Find some alternate income and go back into the market when it fucking chills the fuck up because right now my mindset REALLY hitting the fight club mentality.
>week 2 on vacationwhat did I miss, faggots?
am I the only one tired of that one "bait" anon who posts irrelevant webms to try and derail the general with whatever 'ism' that's trending? like damn grow some balls and at least put some real sigma shit or something.
recently quit teaching to work in a data center. shit is awesome
My CTO was “asked” to retire. It’s been indicated to me that I’m likely going to be asked to step into his role. I don’t want to but i worry my refusal would eventually lead to me being “asked” to leave. My CTO was my direct boss and shielded me from the executive BS and inter departmental politics. Wat do?
I LOVE CORPORATEhttps://www.instagram.com/reels/DaeoGk5PE5F/
>>109238770is this perchance a male
>>109238850leave with him, ask him how to avoid becoming the CTO or ask him to lay you off maybe?
oh no guy I'm receiving too many promotions ahoohoohoo
>Doesn't want to do CTOBut why anon its just work, get them to pay you 2.5x your current paycheck for that job easy.
>>109238943>trans porn ahead
>>109238943Even if that comes at the cost of my decent work life balance and relative peace?
Mom says it’s maybe time to think about entering seminary
mom said seminary isn't good for dogs
>>109238970Then you made up your mind already. Leave now or learn to handle the CTO position before moving somewhere else. Also never take a promotion without a pay raise.
>>10923842020 year old system for autocad?
you're a cad
>>109239065There would be a pay raise. My current CTO says i could realistically get about $45k/yr more
>>109239054>>109239031I would have entered seminary if my parents allowed me to.
>>109238961It took 2 hours for transgender people to be mentioned. Surprised it took this long.
>>109239115you missed one, brother>>109238861
I'm overworked, overstressed, underresourcedI'm burning outIf I can just get our operations to a good steady state, I just might end up in a strong salaried position for a good company forever. Or they could decide to can me in a downturn.I'm going to keep trudging
>>109238397people actually thought mega64 was funny
>>109238617Jack off day, and then ask for step-by-step instructions on the most mundane shit at 5pm
>>109239191*all dayI might be too braindead to type anything properly, I should knock myself out with a lethal dose of it
What do you do if you finish all your work before deadline? With claude code?
>>109239270what if i'm an ai engineer? can i be with the vibegods?
I really don't give a fuck about ongoing escalations caused by faggots offloading their work to our team
Just got an offer at $61k. Feels great finally making over six figures. Immediately called my mom to tell her the good news.
>>109239921Be careful with telling family you might end up paying them to shut up about the money you make. Had a friend dump 12k to pay off his little sisters car, then 5k for appliances to his mom and another 5k to his older sisters wedding.
>>109239984What country?>>109238561For me it would be beneficial, it would save me a few more weeks of misery while I find a new job.
>he thinks he would get a new job in 'a few weeks'
>>109240050US
>omg the new gen LLMs are SOOO GOOD bro>try them>the same shit as before, maybe slightly bigger context idkAm I retarded or are they retarded? It really feels like placebo effect to me, this shit is the same
>>109240103AI craze is the biggest jeet scam in history and there’s 2 billion of them
actually i want my girlfriend( i dont have one and im virgin with no social skills and erectile dysfunction)to be career girl and myself be male housewife
Just "embellished the truth" on most of the projects listed on my resume.
>>109240459We call it fluffing in the industry. I have saved billions of dollars worth of infrastructure that way.
I am only IT at company and they are looking at outside options - but they are charging a month what a new employee would cost a year..they never asked if we should hire someone else but they constantly ask if I am able to handle my work load...truth is I am a bit overwhelmed and would love to get help but I guess that would require me asking for raise and promotion? we spoke to a couple service providers already..I've been help desk for like 6 years here..does it make sense to try to say to make give me manager role and hire another it person? is that something you would be offered more likely or something that you sorta have to fight for..I'm fucking so shy as fuck..
>>109240590Do yourself a favor. Read books outload to improve you public speaking by acting out the characters. Then rehearse what you will say to whomever you intend to talk to in the workplace. It saved me a ton.
>still need to make it safely out of the office without anyone stopping me for extra quick call to fix something
>have little issue on some subject>call architect to clear it up>now held hostage for an hour while he tries to figure out how the tool is supposed to work with his limited knowledgeI could have asked the team responsible for the tool and gotten my answer immediately. Some people really need to learn to say "I don't know" and move on
so how come no one cares that everyone under 30 is being raped to death
>>109240854And what's the problem in not wanting to participate in the kiked housing market?
>>109240865why are boomers so retardedno one wants to be 30 and living with their parents. its miserable.
>>109240868The biggest surprise is white zoomer men being unemployed or a minimum pay wagie and say "racism bad" as they are getting replaced.
>>109240918Cool it with the anti-semitism.
>>109240103Everyone raves about Claude and it seems worse than Codex to me.
>>109240854because we're tired broeveryone except boomers and late x-ers have been getting raped for the last two decades
>>109240965I look forward to the next holocaust.
>>109240992Never Happened Goebbels was a jew. 100k troops in hitler's army was jews. Haavara Agreement was with jews to setup the modern state of Israel. They will get the hall of cost one day.
>>109240103>Am I retardedyes>>109240984fable>=5.6>5.5>opus>who cares
>>109241030>5.5>opusReally?
>>109241039yes. they're both a bit retarded tho.
>>109240992>>109240965They are self aware
>>109241057>muh inequalityThey just import a zillion immigrants then make you a slave for them and say they've fixed the problem. It's not the "inequality" we'll kill them for, it's the destruction and slavery.
>>109241072Their symbolism will be their downfall. They won't survive the pole shift aka next great flood when it happens. Some call it hubris i call it human instinct they simply cannot imagine a humanity without anything to lose.
>>109241010No one cares whether the last one was fake. We'll make sure this one is real.
>>109241215based
>>109241215holy chudlarpyou will do nothinggo ahead call me a jew
The last inch of interest I had in programming banished with the fucking AI craze.I'm not even going to look for another job in my field, I'm just going to stay here doing nothing until they fire me.
TGIF
>>109241485hope youve been practicing leetcode, boomeryoure going to need to be able to implement a sparse table in 10 minutes when you inevitably beg for your job back
>>109241591>just grind the one thing that makes absolutely no sense not to use AI forAre you genuinely retarded?
>>109241603>N-NOOO I HAVE 20 YOE I CAN CODE THIS WITH AI IN 30 SECONDS PLEASE I NEED THIS JOB THE BANK IS ABOUT TO FORECLOSE ON ME PLEASEgood luck with the interview
if you ever want some ragebait just look at r/managers
I can't really hide my bitterness anymore and I feel like I'm getting really unhinged. Any advice?Yes I keep work at work, I'm ONLY pissed off at work although the mentality has leaked in my personal but it's just more of fuck everyone else, keep the homies close tho but everyone else can drop dead fucking losers. I'm starting to say yes to a lot of shit especially shit outside my zone which is good I guess. Feels like a slippery slope to addiction to hardcore drugs tho lmfao. I don't even really feel hate except for a certain group/some people but it's more like "god get me away from these losers" rather than a curbstomp like anger.
>>109241662I honestly wish I had that level of ego and lack of self awareness, but alas I am cursed with being a sensetive little bitch.
>>109241314Worse, you're a baptist
>>109241662I actually find it funny that there's a meta thread calling that shit out right now lol. looks like r/antiwork is starting to leak.
Honestly in hindsight we probably should have seen that we were in a bubble when people could read 2 pages of react docs and get paid 6 figures for knowing how to use basic hooks
>>109240835>Some people really need to learn to say "I don't know" and move onNo. We will be curious, learn, adapt and improve while retards like you will be asking to be spoonfed.I performed another surgically precise pipeline today. I genuinely feel better about life. Get rekt no-passion normies.
>>109242011nta, but i also wish more people would just say>i don't know, can you help me out herespecifically the latter part. i do it more as i've gotten older and i wish i had always done it. just makes everything go faster.
>>109242011You're free to investigate on your own time but don't waste an hour of mine clumsily doing your research in front of me
>>109240835The thing I hate about my work so much is my boss constantly going:>Anon, what's Team X process on xyz?>"idfk, I'm on YOUR fucking team not theirs">Hmm, can you figure it out for me? Also you can't ask them directly because something something office politics go figure it out by looking into their work.??????????????????????????????????? God the way this company does things is so fucking retarded.
>>109242127Can't stand being asked to ask someone else something. Why don't you just ask yourself, retard? I'm not your secretary
>>109242117>doing your research in front of me>in front of lazy spoonfeed spoiled babyThat's the point. You're probably nepo baby too. Get the message to research on your own.
>>109242288It's like I'm being quizzed every day and they act like "well anon you should've known that since you worked on it" and I'm like motherfucker I just work on the components that correlate to me, IDGAF about the whole front and back. I hate this disorganization man, they try to pin it on you but it's so fucking retarded.
>ARE YOU A TRANNY>ARE YOU A CRIPPLE>ARE YOU A ZOGBOT>ARE YOU A BROWN
>>109240103>Am I retarded or are they retarded?It's literal shillbots who say that.>>109240459That's how you get jobs. You are retarded if you don't do that.>>109241057Why do you think they hated commies so much? They know people will behead them if they don't fix things. But they won't. They'd rather convince people that having no job and no house and no privacy is natural, and that capitalism is the natural state of humans. I'm sure being able to live whenever you wanted to without having to ask someone for permission because of muh private property and muh wealth of nations was natural some 3k years ago...
>prod environment shit the bed on a friday afternoonluckily i am a useless junior dev
How can I plan for my resignation to cause maximum damage?
>>109242781you got a kill switch yet?
>>109241708I think my problem is if something annoys me, I'll either challenge (fight) it or ignore it (and pretend it doesn't exist). Either doesn't work in corporate....
>log in from my break>boss is looping me in to do something completely out of my responsibilitieshe does this constantly, it's really starting to annoy the shit outta me. it's always high visibility too. It's usually babysitting a client but then it's always constantly "ohhhhh make sure you keep an eye on it from start to end" when it's not even my shit. like what the fuck?
Just failed another interview award
>>109243058what type of interview was it>leetcode / live coding>technical questions>system design>behavioral>whiteboard / otherdont tell me... you failed the recruiter screening?
>working as frontend for 5 years>shit's boring as fuck>AI makes it even worse>consider learning backend>they will probably ask me for 5+ yoe then if I get the job I'll just use AI
Thoughts on power automate im not a tech bro but my manager won’t stop harping about something I built there to keep track/notify of incoming deliverables.
>>109242382>It's literal shillbots who say thatI know humans that say that too. To them every marginally better model that drops feels like a gpt3.5 to gpt4 jump if not bigger, for some reason. To them new models feel like new smartphones now. Sure, they're better, but it's not revolutionary anymore
I've been out of the game for 4 years, how the fuck do I prepare for interviews now?
>>109243174>To them new models feel like new smartphones nowto me*
>>109243182build a time machinde
>>109243173The only benefit is i’ve shown myself as the more tech literate person on the team so they let me go to a bunch of conferences to help improve systems and workflows. Going to Vegas this year.
https://x.com/izzatstatus/status/2075578468872392838
Again, why is this guy always hating on indians when he should REALLY be hating on the ones hiring indians. Like lmao? Why are you hating nature when you should be more mad at the ones bringing the beasts over here.
>>109243393+500 izzat
>>109243403you're brainless as fuck retard, this is why you get no bitches and stuck being trailer trash.
Finna apply to some QA.
>>109243411dodging this jugaad
i got my first payday today
>picking up leetcode again>actually having lots of fun, just do a couple hours of practice a day before work>really enjoying just doing computerscience shit instead of SaaS slop>realize that they took away the fun parts of computersam i retarded or it leecode not that bad if you take it slow
>>109243571its great. if you dont enjoy leetcode you unironically have no right to be an swe.
>I asked this question in /adv/, but someone suggested I post it here:Is help desk to sys/net admin to cybersecurity actually a viable career path for a 25 y/o career changer?I was retarded and got an art degree, and I wasn't able to make a career out of art. So now I don't have a relevant degree for most fields, and my only job experience is in customer service and delivery. Maybe one job that I could spin as "field technician".Now I'm trying to turn my life around and start a real white collar career.People say that help desk jobs are supposed to be easy to get with minimal requirements. So I thought maybe the help desk to cyber track might be the best path for me to having a real, high-paying career without a relevant degree or experience.But I've been applying to a shit-ton of "entry level" help desk jobs and haven't had any luck so far. I'm starting to wonder if I was sold a lie on how attainable this is.So be straight with me: Is this actually a viable path for me? Should I stick with it? Change my approach? Or look for a different path entirely (and if so, what)?I've started studying for an A+ cert, but I'm afraid I'll spend all this time and money on it, and then once I have it, it won't make a difference anyway. Most listings don't mention certs, and the ones that do list it as just a preference.Is it pretty much required for someone in my position to work at Geek Squad or some other consumer help desk role first, before moving up to enterprise help desk? Is that what I'm doing wrong? Would this genuinely help me get a real enterprise help desk role later? Cuz again, I'm afraid of wasting my time at Geek Squad and then it making no difference anyway.I've also heard that another viable path is starting as a data center technician and then working up to networking roles. Would this be more attainable for me, initially?What do you guys think?
>>109243571sameI will NOT bomb a leetcode easy againwagmi
>>109243653this nigga doesnt know what a set is
>>109243770stfu I just froze up
>>109243770list with no order and no duplicates, very very important
holy shit finally got an interview with google after they kept me 'warm" for 4 months in a rowgood news is google interviews are easybad news is they REALLY focus on the behavioral shit (filtering out spergs like me)
>>109241619I noticed you hang out in these threads a lot despite not having a job, "young" saar. Wouldn't /utwg/ be a better fit for you?
>quick call?
>>109243770why should anyone? you're literally arguing about vocabulary
>>109243613>'m starting to wonder if I was sold a lie on how attainable this is.>So be straight with me: Is this actually a viable path for me?It's attainable for people with tech skills. You haven't mentioned anything indicating YOUR skills in your post. Why work in tech and especially in security if you focus on everything but skills. Work in tech is even more intense than professional art - you will have to learn for the rest of your career. Try geek squad doesn't sound bad in your case. You are below baseline for most of people in these threads. Basically "artsy person who fails loomis because they have the art vibes".That's my honest opinion. >>109244080Yes, I do that. Looking for someone to talk with.
>>109242117Solve the shit yourself then, you entitled little bitch.
>>109243194unclear whether anon should use the time machine to go backward or forward in time. please advise.
>>109244166As someone with a PhD in youtube physics, going forward in time is doable in this universe while going backwards requires some loopholes in causality. Therefore I recommend going forward in time.
>Dad is a staff mechanical engineer with 10 years at a boomer corp>boomer corp keeps having software issues with all of their machines, tons of projects delayed or canceled because they can't get their shit running>meanwhile they keep bleeding senior engineers to competitors that get bought out and offer more money>entire IT department is 4 white guys, 2 blacks, a cuban, and a chinese guy. oh and a fucking truckload of jeets (80% of the IT department is in india)>dad has been vibe coding a bunch of shit himself in python (lol)>puts in a recommendation for me>they don't give me an interview because I don't have x years experience in embedded systems or plc programmingboomers are literal demons man holy fuck
I'm on parental leave, first time I've stopped working for so long in yearsI don't want to go back to work, I hate working with people and I hate coding with Claude
>>109244444
>>109244575Oh yeah forgot to mention the cherry on top>staff mechanical engineers are expected to vibe code the software for the machines they produce
>>109244606The best version of this is still Robby killing Sportacus.
>>109244611and people wonder why china is mogging us in every way
>>109244591There is no escape.
>>109244695Spain?
>>109244129Thanks for the honest response.You're right, I should've mentioned skills. One of the reasons I chose this over other paths is because I do have at least somewhat of an aptitude for tech. I've personally built and upgraded PCs over the years, I've used a desktop all my life and I'm pretty savvy with it, and I'm my family's go-to tech-support guy. And I do enjoy learning these things, and I like the idea of continually learning throughout my career. But I'm obviously not as technically skilled as you guys who have been in the field for a while and/or had formal education. And I do note these skills on my resume. But the problem is I'm not even getting any interviews, so I don't have any chances to demonstrate them. I think they just see "zero formal experience" and "no relevant degree" and instantly toss my resume in the garbage, or never even see it, even for roles that don't explicitly require those things (bc those ones get a gazillion applicants). >Basically "artsy person who fails loomis because they have the art vibes".Idk what you mean by that, can you explain it to me?
I got told to make a skill that can do my job, what do I do?
>>109244695 japan sus
>>109244758Vibecode a dicksucking machine.
>>109244772what next to no immigration does to a countryan aging population pyramid would normally be very good for young workers because they are in much higher demand, even as the economy shrinksbut importing a million bomalians nullifies this and you just end up with a shitty economy and worthless young workers
>>109244794Selfish benchod you want old people to suffer
>>109244807I want to blow the brains out of literally everyone over 40
>>109243770I don't know shit(but, I, did, know, this)
offer got delayed (again) award
>solving retarded puzzles is REAL programmingYou will never be a swe
>>109244988>hi, im your interviewer for this $200k a year job.>can you efficiently sort an array in nlogn time? do not use .sort()>>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THIS ISN'T REAL PROGRAMMING I WILL NEVER NEED TO USE THIS NOOOOOOOOOOO CLAUDE CAN DO THIS IN 30 SECONDS NOOOOOOOOOO
>>109245004This but unironically
>>109244611Is your dad saving money and/or looking for a new job?
>>109245135Nope. They pay him a lot. Plus my stepmom is a doctor so combined they earn like 400k a year.
>>109245004I would just sort it by hand
Okay I sent an email to the manager who interviewed me a few weeks ago, and he told me that he's still waiting to hear back from the higher ups on whether or not they should hire me. Is this a good or bad sign?
>>109245220As always, keep applying until you officially have the job.
>>109245220Probably means they're debating budget and whether or not to keep the position open
>>109245228I've been, but there are hardly any job listings that aren't asking for years of experience. Suspiciously, there are a lot of job postings at places like Northrup, though.
>>109245267why don't you apply?
>>109245311They're asking for experience, which I don't have, and I find it a little strange that they're offering 200K for an FPGA/hardware engineer, yet they still can't find anyone in the global economic hub that I live in. I think the purpose of those postings is to data mine resumes, but for what reason I don't know.
>get $10k bonus (pre tax) >feel nothing>just going to dump it into the market >market ath so it'll probably go down
>>109245373>get $10k raise >feel like I should have gotten more>just going to dump it into my girlfriend>she likes spending money so she'll probably go down on me
I had to be creative for work, to get my reading reps in. I refuse to explain what I mean.
>>109245413grim
>>109243571It's called autism.
>>109245413>Dumping ungodly amounts of money on womenGod that is horrific.
I'm getting pulled in two directions>women’s jew daycare tasks>actual technical workFaggot "ownership culture" means I'm supposed to balance both, but the former is an all consuming cancer. How am I supposed to deal with this?>talk to your managerKek might as well not have one. But instead of falling through the cracks everyone seems to rely on me.Fuck I am getting stressed out.At the beginning it was supposed to be>just balance both>best effort But now everyone has lost their minds. I'm paid well but should be getting much more for doing basically two roles.
>new software head joins>asks why the software part of the project is taking so long>lead tells him its because of scope creep>"Can you find out what's causing the scope creep?">"okay">Lead gives them document to explain scope creep>Head looks inside>mostly bug fixes>bugs caused while implementing items in scope>"Why are bug fixes considered scope creep?">"We didn't plan on having to fix bugs">his face when
I need help understanding the difference between a compositor and a WM. Does a compositor control the window decorations and effects such as fading when you close a window whereas a WM controls the placement of windows on screen?
I would hate tech interview online tests a billion times less if they actually told me how I did, completely useless for even me learning if you don't even give me the score
>>109245766Oh fuck, wrong thread
>>109245771I too browse the /DIY/ threads for real anwsers.
>get LinkedIn invite from some jeet I guess because he's incoming to the school I graduated from years ago>listed as ex member of technical staff at oracle on title>click profile>Indian institute of shit 2020-2024>oracle - intern - member of technical staff 2023Im tired
>>109245998This is either a troll or weirdly impressive. Yeah you may be an idiot savant, but if you could actually write that giant blob and not get confused about what the fuck you wrote, that's impressive
>>109245982LOVE AND RESPECT EVERY LINKEDIN INDIAN YOU HAVE EVER WORKED WITHthey will like and share all your posts every time and randomly confirm you are good at skills
>>109245998indians are so fucking stupid
>>109246012If you watch the video, it's just him hitting tab on his autocomplete over and over and narrating it with "and then we come in here and..."At the very end he opens up twitter and pretends it's what he made
>>109246261it always astonishes me how indians are willing to lie/cheat over the most mundane of things
>>109246275kinda like jews
>>109246305jews at least lie to get money or powerindians just lie for the sake of it or to gloat about basically nothing
>>109246406>jews at least lie to get money or powerthey lie even when it's not about either
>>109246406Jews can actually put in work to reach their goals. It takes like 10 indians to do any 1 persons job and they still manage to fuck it up.
>>109246417in your pic they're pretending to be white to gain power over you
>>109246461Theyre lying to be manipulative rats in general
Another week, another dollar. I almost feel bad for having a job I like enough to not have any severe complaints about.
>>109246652My job is extremely boring its a blessing and a curse after working to the bone for most of my career. I feel like this is a fate for majority of the specialized IT people.
>>109246668can only relate a little. I'm just IT support but at least it's somewhere "cool". and it was after only not making a free medal for "Non-Effective Service". And I don't have any wonts for money, and even materiel is mostly "I have (almost) all the tools I can use but need a good source of scrap metal"
I do wish, however, that I knew more about the >USE CASE. It does feel bad to do my own checks, then the group rolls in to do their thing, and something I didn't even miss is a problem. In my opinion, any supporter should have intimate knowledge of what they're supporting. If you're some spec ops bro, you would hope that your support structure has participated in a drive-by. If you're a pilot, you'd hope tech support at flight school knows what your various panels are actually supposed to read and not just that they're on at all.
>>109246703>>109246768You could stop being a furfag. Get a real job and end the nigger spam you give us. In addition the solution to all of your problems relies on you reading certification books. You won't do it since you state all you need to be successful is a dremel. Worthless waste of space to remain this ignorant at the job and still spam nigger shit about getting caught and fired for being horrible at the job you claim to have.
>>109246901>Get a real jobi have one THOUGH>Worthless waste of space to remain this ignorant at the jobi know you're trolling but that was my actual complaint -- that I am in a job supporting a system that I don't really know how to use properly and does not have very good publicly accessible documentation on the overall thing that it is trying to simulateturns out sea surface combat is really complicated and air-to-subsurface combat is basically impenetrable, and my experience with sea stuff was all mine warfare that my current job does seem to interact with (but it might, for all I know)
>>109246948If any of that was real that you just posted then their are in fact documents you can read. At minimum you can look up documents on model numbers for each device. You can infer how tech works from random certs. If you don't have access to the documents that your entire job was built off of then you need to shut the fuck up and ask your boss for support to get you those documents. I worked at an airfield and had access to wayyy more shit than i was actually responsible for due to manning reasons.
>>109246984>their are in fact documents you can read.my onboarding consisted of this and was just menu maps to do normal functions and did not even include basic troubleshooting let alone what normal output looks like for known types of targets again, i know you're trolling, but it feels bad to say>Well it passed BIT, all the fake things passing in data report as OK, and I see colors on the plot. I don't know what's wrong here. I don't know what it's supposed to look like.Maybe I should report back into my navy unit in the new year that I want to go on an air force course. My CO has seen me on the wrong base before.
>>109247011>again, i know you're trollingKYS faggot
>>109247031Killing you is a job for the enemy. There is no sense working for free.
I think I'm not very good at my job.
>>109247466I know for a fact I'm not good at my jobI write great code but am very bad with peopleThis used to work out, but now that managers ask that we write as much code as we can with Claude, I'm just an overpaid autist who writes the same code as everyone else
>>109247587this fully this Claude can code 100% of every app if you arent using Claude you are FULLY behind fully and foreverially
>>109247599I don't think that's trueBut even if it is, it just makes our job uninteresting
>>109239921>$61k. Feels great finally making over six figures.That's not what six figures means
>>109243571>am i retarded or it leecode not that bad if you take it slowProblem solving is pretty much the only enjoyable part of this job. Or at least it was before AI.
>>109238397UNATCO?
hey /twg/, im a NET (aka a student) just graduating aside from the whole "its over, forever underclass, no jobs for juniors" blablabla thing, i wanted to askhow is work different now in these times of AI? is manual coding dead? is the job basically talking to a chat bot and yelling at it until it solves the problem? reading constantly its output? is it basically running an agentic loop until it finds the problem or it fucks itself?more worrisome for me than not finding a job, it looks like it has become a miserable experience to work with software. looks like the job is just arguing with a chatbot until it finally does what you wanti didnt use much AI for coding, and when i did i used the "weak" models (those free, claude 4.5, haiku, whatever openai gives) and i just found the experience miserable, i usually lost 1 hour arguing with it until i implemented in 30 minsis this what coding is now? looks horrible
The retarded zoomer at my job gave our employer what they want: do in a day what it takes us a week. Now they will ask him (and probably the rest of us too) to do the same over and over again.I'm hopeful I'll get fired soon. This industry is fucked. Thanks OpenAI, Anthropic, Microsoft and nvidia. I wish those companies their worst, most miserable, painful death.
I asked my boss if I can join his podcast and he said no :(
>>109248644>you must deliver more cause the chatbot>you must still read and understand every line and don't make any mistakes>yes we still expect you to work faster thoughIt's the same as it ever was, the AI tools work pretty good but still make mistakes. I prefer them for most for understanding code (massive bloated code bases), then for code that doesn't matter, and cautiously for code that does matter.We get the paid top models at work and they are really good desu it has totally changed the way I think and interact with the problem to solve.Wasn't the beginning of most projects cloning something similar or some scaffolding (even your own code from the past)?
>>109249039Comb through hours of audio for a racism or sexism and report him
>>109249134you look ugly as fuck
>>109249241maybe things arent as bleak as they seem, i think i fell too deep in the hype train since a lot of tech media is centered around itthanks for your answer!
>>109249134Nice breasts, although men would prefer beautiful mids like picrel.
>>109249332>slav>no tits>thinGOOOOD yes i bet her tummy looks and feels heavenly
>>109249241The problem with the massive bloated code bases is that often they're massive and bloated for a reason. You will still need to get the context, find the right people to educate you why things are done a certain way to touch it. AI sometimes can get you some context but not everything. I like AI the most for SQL stuff as a lot of SQL writing is just repeating and copy pasta stuff. > top modelsI have not noticed a difference except for the length of replies that it can spit out. The top models also make a lot of errors, maybe a bit less than the cheaper ones but I'm not sure about that. Most of the ''wrong'' answers also have to do with the user of these LLMs asking the question in a wrong way or not giving enough input. A direct advantage though is that the premium models can easily spit out 500-1000 lines of SQL code in a bit over a minute while a non premium model doesn't do that. >>109248644> is manual coding dead?It is nice to know where to change, what to change and why something has to be changed. That matters for the queries you ask the LLM. But manually coding without any AI tool, I don't think anyone is doing that anymore.> is the work talking to a chat botA lot of tech work is getting business requirements, defining them, navigating their architecture, making sure that what you're implementing is actually also what is being asked. This has nothing to do with writing code but will be an essential part of a modern dev job. Jobs that are just *only* writing code and nothing else are getting canned, but those jobs were already moved to India. The vast majority of jobs out there expect you to be more proactive and understand the business problems nowadays rather than just the technical problem. I think jobs where you only sit down and write code are dying out though.
> join a /g/ tech server> unemployed everywhere> troons are mods > troonmods typically are unemployed or have some giga autistic wfh job doing obscure Linux shit.
>>109249382Discord btw* That platform rly became full of trannies and insufferable homos.
>>109249388It's platform created by diaper furries to share their cub 'art' because they couldn't do so on SA, what did you expect?
>>109249506Piss take, must be an 'Only Indians need apply' company
>>109249241>Wasn't the beginning of most projects cloning something similar or some scaffolding (even your own code from the past)?My snippets though were a consistent starting point, not random garbage to sort through
>>109249346>>slav>>no tits>>thinShe'll probably sprout some given a western diet instead of a starving eastern european parsnips and turnips one
>>109249370thank you for your insight :)
>got contacted by a recruiter>nigga is chopped as hellI know he's going to fight tooth and nail to get me this job
>>109249574Nuh uh, i will be moving in with her. she will not live in the densely populated western hellhole
>>109249524i make 24k a year in germany, that wage would mean the difference between homeless and not
>>109248644I'd say it depends. A lot of times AI gets it right but sometimes it frustrates me too much and I write the code myself. I actually like AI because it does away with writing tests for me and no one who is not autistic likes writing tests by hand.
>>109249288Good luck anon. I don't think it's more bleak than in the past. Just be open minded.>>109249370Yes I think the context is really important. It can give two right answers, but one answer is more right than the other, that takes human intelligence.For me a big shift was telling it the end goal, whitelisting all commands, and then letting it go. Yes I'm prepared for it to nuke my system, I don't care. A sandbox or something would be best though.
>>109249600Probably the better decision, enjoy your lithe elf (at least until blackrock floods the country with ugo bugos and durka dhurkas because all the ukrainian men are dead)
is 'Hello World' slopcode?
>>109249633>(at least until blackrock floods the country with ugo bugos and durka dhurkas because all the ukrainian men are dead)Ngl is there realistically any country immune to this? Maybe Iceland? Atp it's just about how long you can avoid having to live amongst brown subhumans and hope that you can avoid it until you die.
>>10924963310 Russian men die for every Ukrainian man. Try to deny it all you want but in WW2 Germany lost 10m men fighting everyone vs 30m Sovietards.
>>109249613Coverage tests is definitely one of the things its useful for and requires less tard wrangling from what I've noticed, probably because its got your code to work with.Its probably not good for TDD though
>>109249657TDD is the most retarded thing ever invented in SE. Whoever invented it (probably a jew) needs to be gassed.
>>109249650Yes yes, you're dying more efficiently, bully for you
>>109249674Russian women no longer produce any babies due to feminism, urbanization and tiktok. The only sustainable solution for Putin would be to open Russia to all of Africa and India.
>>109249683Ukraine has the 9th lowest birth rate in the world, at 1 child/woman. Russia is at 1.47, which is roughly the average for wealthy countriesThe retarded shit people will spout in this general with complete confidence, I swear to god
>>109249506I've heard of the diaper fury admins. I think they've replaced those with AI systems that are heavily abused (i.e. mass report someone you don't like to get his account deleted). >>109249623I have never considered whitelisting commands. Typically I try to word my question like a stackoverflow one but then bigger. I'm not shy to copy paste 1000 lines and ask the LLM to make the changes requested. Then I review and test it. Yes this can be dangerous for prod databases esp since code review is dead. If I pass something onto code review I'm 99% sure that the engineer reviewing it is going to paste it into the LLM and run tests that are less thorough than the ones I performed. Thankfully the better paid western European and USA devs will not be out of a job any time soon. Since those jobs often required significantly more human contact than the stuff that was send to jeets. >>109249640> Ngl is there realistically any country immune to this?North Korea lmao. >>109249633There are a lot of other slavic countries that are better than total complete shithole Ukraine (worst country in Europe even BEFORE the war).
>>109249743Russia has the same problem as Turkey in that the only people reproducing are the ones replacing you. Muslims are already 20% of the Russian population and the regions where they are overrepresented have the highest birth rates.
notice the names are never "Daniel Smith" or "Cody Peters"
>>109249766That's every western country on the planet, imbecile
>>109249786
>>109249798That's the US only and whites are actually somewhat maintaining their share as % of births. It is immigration causing higher levels of non-whites.
>>109249640Icelanders are naive people and have been duped into believing that if they don't bring in foreigners they'll all become inbredAnd because they've been an isolated population they lack a strong in-group defence mechanism (aka racism)Chinese have a superiority complex and recently are having a surge of antisemitism.China has its own issues of course, but they might be the ones to avoid brown rot>>109249666It was Kent BeckTbf I've never found a use for TDD either.BDD can be useful because you're just checking your end result. But TDD I've never managed to get into because it requires you to know what your implementation is before you've done it>>109249683If I was a russian woman I wouldn't want to breed with a goblin eitherThe sexual dimorphism of the Rusoid is very peculiar...
>tired of my job>Keep getting passed up for promotions>Update my resume and put out feelers for a new position>Get an interview>Also get word from my manager that I've gotten the promotion I wanted>100k boost in TC >Now I don't care to do these other interviews that would have been a pay cut even at my previous levelFuck these golden handcuffs!Inb4 some salty brokie tells me it's a larp. Pic related
>>109249802based. fuck Apple
>>109249826Please send me money good saar I am overheating here in Europe.
>>109249802Oh wow, if only Apple had some way to deauth stolen hardware
>>109249844>>109249875you could just say you're poor
>>109249826this is a screenshot of a third party salary estimator
I spent all my life working and thinking what I am doing matters, It will help people, I am building and contributing something. Now I look back laughing myself, bunch of mba monkeys are making us work harder doing 10 person’s work with less money while ripping all benefits with lies and scams(AI auroboros and gurus looking at you), we have to sacrifice our nights and social life’s, humiliation ceremonies under interviews, stupid sprint tasks maintaining garbages, meaningless discussions like what we do matters, CS is a mockery profession no regulation, no standardization, role playing toxic work. We building and maintaining Facebook/X like places to scam elderly, put children hands of pedophiles, help Epstein class spread misinformation and hate/, and rip already stressed people, really thinking we serve the evil, maintain the evil and feed and grow the evil. All for nothing. All my life I am in a point can not stop thinking, I waste my life, become part of a joke.
>>109250077Yeah no shit. But I work at the company and know the other levels are accurate. Most of the boost comes from bonus and equity but it's still a few extra thousand a month in base every month.
>>109238551dont put yourself in a situation where they have power over you, dont let people lesser than yourself dictate your fate & hurt you. Get away, get out from under
Over the past three months I found myself applying to a few “design engineer” roles. To me it looked like frontend, but judging by my success rate it may be different.How is this role different from a frontend engineer?
>>109248644>is manual coding deadyes, completely dead>>109248644>is the job basically talking to a chat bot and yelling at it until it solves the problemright now you need go give to agent some info (like specification in .md file) and then agent will do everything for you in one shot (usually)>>109248644>how is work different now in these times of AI?basically reviewing slop.but usually I don't waste time for such a miserable thing and just approve PRs without looking. if prod will explode after release - i don't give a shit. but slop not only in code, slop also in specifications. ADR, PDR, TDR and all other DRs are just a .md files with AI-generated shit inside. no one reads and discusses it anymore.
>be me>did 1 year college program for AI and used AI non stop for personal projects>get vibe coding job a month after grad>open reddit>filled with people with master's whining they haven't been able to get a job for the past 2-3 years and whining about AIfeels damn good
>>109250153That's my case.I have master's degree in CS (with honors) from top 3 uni in my europoor contry.My job was taken by AI and now I'm doing janitor work. >>109250153>did 1 year college program for AI and used AI non stop for personal projectsDo you know how to code? Like do you know fundamentals? Algorithms, data structures, OOP, functional programming, concurrency & parallelism? Or did you just vibe code all the time and never went deep into the code?
you can see who works on actual projects and who doesn't itt by the way they talk about AI
>>109250184Yes, I do know. But I would be lying if most of it hasn't been abstracted by AI, like you won't see me talking about algorithms, data structures, OOP, and the other things you mention. I will aim for an output and iterate until I get it. I have made a couple of Rust apps for our clients, and I don't know a lick of Rust. I do, however, know how to bug hunt, though.
>>109250185Got any examples? I use AI all the time but that's because my company gives us unlimited access to cursor. It's only decent at understanding the full problem but if you understand the problem yourself and can explain it correctly it's great at implementing a solution.
>whats your debugging process when you notice there's a data race?>"well first I start putting print statements and breakpoints everywhere">interviewer immediately gives me a look of disapprovalwas I supposed to lie here
>>109250569You were supposed to say you need to raise a JIRA ticket for the user story... or something
>>109241485I don't understand people like this. AI rivived my excitement with computers.First it convinced me pytorch is worth learning and it turns out ML itself is a lot of fun even if it's very different from programming otherwise.Second it meant I no longer spend tons of time dealing with other people's retarded ideas; I can have the machine reimplement the parts of libraries I need without all the other crap or figure out the interface for me while I focus on the parts of the program I care about.
>>109246261That has to be satire.
>>109250094>really thinking we serve the evil, maintain the evil and feed and grow the evil.you just realized? we are all making the rich richer, and they change policy however it fits them to fuck us all in the ass, no matter how well paid we are. welcome to capitalisminb4>shut up commie!!it's all the same.to help people you have to do things by and for yourself, but if you don't have the resources, you are fucked. even then, you have to be careful, because opportunists, scammers and crazy people exist. such is the current state of the world...
>>109250094Lol that's a bummer, I work on software that goes into industrial devices which actually does matter.
>>109250898ML and Computer Vision are pretty interesting, because they're concrete prediction models.LLMs are fuzzy crap that requires tard wrangling, they're overhyped, but because it outputs stuff the laymen managers can understand they've fallen for it. And because of the push for it, especially in dev processes, it's causing a lot of fatigue.I like writing code, I like making things. I don't like telling something to do the work for me. Its the same reason why developers hate becoming managers.Even with content creation people are starting to get fed up with because all its doing is producing a lot content that is very average and generic.
>>109240103Unironically skill issue. If you're writing code in 2026, you're a snailcat. I don't care what you're doing. There is zero usecase for coding in modern development.
>>109251225It doesn't matter what you like to do. I like to jerk off to bbw milfs, but nobody is going to pay me 100k a year to do that. You need to stop taking work personally, the industry doesn't care about how developers feel (and why should it?). My manager actually declined hiring a guy recently because the guy said he doesn't use a lot of AI.>hurr the man is trying to bring us down!No. It's because it's retarded to write code. It's a waste of time.
>>109251225>they're overhypedI think they're weirdly overhyped and underhyped. They're not going to solve all our problems and bring about "AGI" (whatever that's defined to be this quarter.) But they've also made natural prose into more than just an opaque object which opens up an enterily new frontier for us. >I like writing code, I like making things. I don't like telling something to do the work for me. Its the same reason why developers hate becoming managers.It's tricky to use it effectively as a coding tool. It's really only good for interface glue and even then you have to be conservative. I think the only reason it hasn't run away from me is that I insist on using agents via a kind of recreation of the older "email patch" git workflow where I run the agent under its own user account and then when the session is done it sends me a patch that I manually review and apply. I think if I used this the way it was intended it would run away and completely fuck the project up.
>>109251230You still do have to manually write a lot of code. Otherwise your codebase gets shat up by "clean code" singleton wrappers around singleton wrappers for error handling or whatever.
>>109241591>hope youve been practicing leetcode, boomerwhat's the point of leetcode in the era of AI?seriously, we don't write code anymore. why should companies still do leetcode interview? I understand that leetcode used to be used as nothing more than a candidate filter. But back then, they at least tried to explain it by saying we were checking "how a candidate can handle corner cases," "how a candidate can write code and think," and so on. Now, even such weak arguments can't be made, because all of that is simply a thing of the past.We might as well ask candidates to juggle three tennis balls during interviews and show it on video - that would also be a filter. Leetcode today is just as useless a filter as this.
>>109251254>It doesn't matter what you like to do. I like to jerk off to bbw milfs, but nobody is going to pay me 100k a year to do that. You need to stop taking work personally, the industry doesn't care about how developers feelyeah, I guess people shouldn't like the stuff they do and use it as motivation to keep going and enduring the stress and shittiness of the job and the whole industryget the fuck out of this general, you unemployed, useless retard. you obviously don't work in tech.
>>109246012There's a type of idea, and this anon's post is like it. The idea is where you look at partisan idea, and try to analyze it at it's own terms rather than how the idea is in reality.This anon thinks this video demonstrates shitty code that works, and the "debate" of whether that's a meaningful tradeoff.What he did not see is that he is creating a giant console.log statement, just to fill time in.Picrel is the vision, over 20 minutes in.(by the way, of course he leaked his API keys in. No I won't say where)He never demonstrates his twitter clone by the way.>>109246261>At the very end he opens up twitter and pretends it's what he madeYou presupposed retards are capable of even knowing they're lying. I am 80% sure he genuinely believes he did it, and it's connected to twitter.You can say I'm insane but most humans do not use reality as evidence to inform their world view, they use reality to justify their world view. In this case, I'm sure that he thinks wasting 3 hours creating console.log statements means he made a twitter clone.
>>109251342I've noticed that the people most excited about AI and gloat about it don't even have jobs so they "work" all day on their private projects they hope can get them money. But still, AI is still useful in a professional setting for many use cases so don't sleep on it either.
>>109251376it sure is useful. the problem is that companies bought the narrative and think it will do magic and replace 90% of us, and we all know that's false and a damaging logic. we and the industry as a whole have been through this many times already. we know that "magical" solutions end in huge crises, but the people responsible for them don't ever pay the price.
>>109251339Take your lumps. It takes like 2 months of practice to get good at LC + system design. Most people wish they had such clear hiring requirements for such a salary boost.
>supervisor makes this face at me every time I ask a questionIs it over?
>>109251396Constant FUD helps turn away competition from the industry.
>>109251430well, FUD or not, I'm trying to leave this shit industry because, at least in my experience, it IS being destroyed by people who seem to hate both workers AND technology.
I love getting agents to do my job for meI can run circles around tards who don't use them even though the company pays for itManager congratulated me for burning through the tokens lol, he's probably telling the CEO how great I am at leveraging AI or some shit
>>109251450>Manager congratulated me for burning through the tokens lol, he's probably telling the CEO how great I am at leveraging AI or some shitAre you serious? What kind of company tells people to senselessly burn tokens? I could probably burn through a million dollars worth of tokens in a month with what I want to do with the project.
>>109251484It was more that I was the top userI don't think he was aware we ran out of tokens (it was nearly the end of the month anyway)
>>109250569I mean, that is what I would do, too. Interviewer can fuck himself. Very important if youre doing multithreading processes.
>>109250569>>109251596Console logs are underrated af when it comes to race conditions.
> every time you think to yourself to give a good reference or help someone out with getting a job it turns out the person is an utter and complete cunt Not going to help other ''people'' again. >>109251339> what's the point of leetcode in the era of AI?Honestly it was only for jeets to get into these big tech places during 2018-2022. Hiring was mad during that period. And any company continuing to do the leetcode assessments after LLMs was mad. In my area (Data engineering) I just simply ask questions related to data modelling, how you'd structure tables for XX problem, data quality problems, process problems etc. I'm just curious how someone would design a solution. LLMs can get you very far in answering all of this but I want to hear it from someone in an interview. So I know that the person knows what he/she is doing and can use the LLM as something to enhance their work rather than the LLM being the entirety of their work and therefore they'll likely be inadequate for the job.
>>109250569data breakpoint on memory write maybe?
Do you guys bother scrutinising linkedin connection requests or just accept everyone?I used to, but it's not like I read the feed because its shit anyway, and I guess the bigger my network is the more recruiters and the like get to see meI just don't bother accepting foreigns because they're useless nodes on my network
Got a tech job and now I dont have time to work out
Just got my technically second IT job doing data wipes and refurbishment for an ITAD company. Only pays $19.75 an hr but at least its guaranteed full time and M-F and I don't have to work in restaurants anymore. I studied for 6 months for the CompTIA A+ just for this because I'm generally a useless faggot that never went to college. Hopefully I can get something a little better after some time.
>>109252122congrats anon. I hope things improve for you in the future.
>swe experience doesn't qualify you for helpdesk garbage
>>109252280your job market on infinity indians
Why the fucking hell did I get a cybersecurity degree without having been in the military for a clearance? I'm going to die in helpdesk. >>109252122Keep on the IT grind bro, AI can't replace physically handing technical illiterates devices.
>>109252280I got rejected prescreener for an application support role, despite having both it support (including hell desk) and development experience, simply because I didn't have the words application support specifically on my CV.I looked up the TA after, former waitress and bartender.That's the type of people blocking you
>>109252122From my experience A+ was the one that takes the most time to study for. Net+ will actually be the hardest test for you to take. Sec+ will be easiest test of the 2 by a large mile especially since content builds upon itself. All 3 gave me like 45% of the content of CCNA which apparently it used to give you 0% but since comptia's new management came around they have made it more relevant to the workspace than just memorizing pinouts for HDMI cables. If you have a good company that pays for college/IT certs then consider the value it provides and stay there to rack up a MS degree and a handful of higher level certs. My current company offers ass for that but some others give unlimited funding for it so people burn company money on bootcamps & college degrees.
>>109253006Where is the bed at?
>>109253011You buy a sleeping mat and figure that out.
>>109238770this one is definitely a trannoid
>>109243370white guys cannot get away with shit like thisi really hate white women for allowing this behavior
>>109252122congrats
how im going to be moving once I get that new job
>>109252427It's always people on a power trip.
>>109253292Cheap retatrutide and growing out his hair did this. His hairline is still bad and hidden behind long bangs.
>>109253292he looks creepy as fuck lmao wtf
someone bake UTWG now!!!!
>Sunday already >I just mostly sleep and finish chores and it's time to go to work again
>>109252122>>109253006>comptia A+I just looked up practice questions (https://www.comptia.org/en-us/certifications/a/core-1-v15/practice-questions/) and nailed all of them at a glance. Like srsly these are for babies. There is no way this is what the real test is like right? You studied 6 months for this? Pretty sure any basic /g/tard who's assembled a computer can answer these. Even my mom can get half of these right.And they charge $300 to take a test that's scored automatically by a computer? Sounds like a scam.
>>109238607love me some deenzeven got my picky 5 year old to eat them. he even requested them over a cheeseburger the other day. made me tear up a little
>>109254228I don't think the professor's skin colour matters here
contemplating making utwg myself because there's an 80% chance th enext thread op will be terrible and I can't endure that for another 4 days
>>109254674>making utwg>utwgok?
can we connect?
>>109254228Bring back blue book exams. Illiterate retards don't belong in college.>>109254451lol
>I’m supposed to set up the 3 new starters on their laptops tomorrow>their accounts haven’t actually been created yetI’m scared, bros
>>109254156The actual test bank and questions asked is so varied its bullshit. Not to mention they have their homebrewed lab shit built in that fucks everything up. I passed A+ first try in 3 months of constant memorization. Net+ was even bigger bullshit failed 2 times compared to the 1 time i failed with CCNA. Sec+ is easy as shit by comparison. It's more of a volume issue in addition to how they word these questions.
we need a new thread. someone make one please
>>109257045ok, I'll bake...
new>>109257123new>>109257123new>>109257123new>>109257123
