>>8185071
Cheating doesn't involve the man that is being cheated on or at least he is never aware of the matter.
I don't think many netorare artist switch to vanilla because people rarely go from more extreme porn to less extreme porn.
And yes, the fetish is pretty popular because the Japs have even more sad sacks of shit in their society.
Filter the tags if you are bothered by it.

First let's define what Netorare is.
Netorare is essentially the "fetishization of having a loved one stolen away." And it comes in 4 general forms. Netorare classic, Netori, Netorase, and BSS.
Netorare and Cheating, while they might appear synonymous can differ quite a lot. The key factor is that netorare isn't inherently tied to romantic relationships. Almost any type of relationship can experience netorare, while cheating is specifically for affairs. That's how Mom NTR can exist. Or Father-daughter NTR, brother-sister, etc. You aren't dating your family and normally you shouldn't care all that much about who they date so long as they're happy and healthy, but that leads me to my next point.
Another key difference between netorare and cheating is that netorare focuses on the feelings of betrayal, loss, and other negative points while cheating does have to do that. The POV is either that of the cuck or woman, and the story really highlights the suffering, degradation, humiliation, and cruelty of what's happening. And the bulls are usually terrible people who use underhanded tricks or brute force to steal a woman away. All the same, cheating MIGHT do that. But really, things with the cheating tag will either treat the SO like an afterthought, minimize their presence, and generally have a less morbid tone. Sometimes the cheating is even framed as a positive, like women in loveless marriages meeting a guy who really cares for them and moving on.
As for the other variations, on the surface they're functionally the same, but with subtle differences.
BSS or "But I saw her first!" is basically netorare classic, but now the MC has no relationship with the woman, just unspoken romantic feelings. These stories tend to focus on pointing out how if the MC had made a move first, he could be the one fucking the girl, but he missed his chance.
Netorase is basically netorare with consent from all parties. The cuck in question knows his woman is sleeping around and is okay
1/?

>>8185524
With it, or actively encourages it. It's the traditional, ACTUAL definition of a cuckold.
And then theres Netori, which is netorare from the perspective of the bull. While it's identical to netorare conceptually and a lot of the story beats and tropes are the same, the general tone of the story is inverted.
While Netorare is all about creating a feeling of powerlessness, lacking control, or being unaware of the truth, netori is about wielding power, exerting control, and being the only one in the room who knows the truth. It's like night and day.

That all being said, my personal take.
Cheating's fine. Doesn't really bother me. It's like, vanilla with sprinkles.
Netorase I take on a case-by-case basis. Execution is key. Sometimes it's pretty hot. Other times not so much.
Netorare and BSS both make me sick. I don't care how good the art, how intense the sex, or how pretty the heroine is, by the end, she's always some sociopathic cunt who I'd sooner glass than grope.
Now in a hypocritical 180, I love netori. Being the one who steals is WAY hotter and so while I say I hate netorare, part of me also "gets it" in a way. Plus the vibe of the story, while still typically dark, is about triumph vs failure. That change in perspective does a lot.

>>8185177
>Cheating doesn't involve the man that is being cheated on or at least he is never aware of the matter

Many NTR is like that though?

>>8185612
NTR could be netorare, netorase or netori they are all NTR

>>8185573
I'd agree that cheating, if done to avoid the netorare vibe as much as possible, is generally fine. This should be done by minimizing the presence of the relationship partner. The most can be mentioned is to establish that infidelity is at play. None of that calling the husband/bf while having sex bullshit.

Netorase recently will just devolve into netorare anyway but consensual cucking where the cuck is actually happy is generally fine. None of that cuck telling himself being cucked feels good while bawling his eyes out.

Netori is only fine if it's established that the cuck really deserves it. Otherwise, I will abhor it anyway. Changes in perspective doesn't really do anything here. You are just switching from the pov of a cuck to an absolute asshole.

People that can enjoy hardcore netorare though, is interesting to say the least. Aside from actual cuck, the ability to turn off empathy for fictional characters at will is impressive to me. Not that I can't turn it off myself in many cases, such as netorare doujin of anime/manga. Original netorare still hurts though.

>>8185177
>Filter the tags if you are bothered by it
Unfortunately, missing out on content is a bigger bother than all the bad tags. And yes, that's on me. So all I'm asking is for a better understanding of the genre so I can tolerate the fetish.

Also, Japan seems to not treat netorare and such as any different from other genres, considering they keep mixing in netorare with other stuff all the time. I seriously wonder if any japanese is bothered by NTR at all.

>>8185071
>Most importantly. how do you learn not to be bothered by NTR/cheating?
It's like asking someone into femdom or maledom how do they tolerate reading about being dominated, it's a weird question.
Because it's arousing to their brain?
I know somehow ntr is a meme nowadays, but it's just a fucking fetish like rape, incest, mind control, or whatever else... why search some esoteric explanation when the simplest is "it's hot to me".
You can be into it, not into it, or hate it, in the end it's a fetish and that's it.
Maybe if you like corruption you'd find it easier to approach by seeing it as a form of corruption (sex corruption and love corruption) ?

>>8185071
>Was there ever a trend of NTR artists switching to non-NTR like how we see vanilla/non-NTR artists start doing NTR?
Artists can draw whatever they like, some write pure love only, some have fun with rape then go back to pure love, it's the same with ntr.
Some go sfw (774) while their nsfw is well known.
I think it's healthy, keeps things varied.

>Is NTR popular in Japan compared to other genres?
It is popular.

>>8185656
You are right and yet I still can't help but think it's not that simple. Surely there are people that can read NTR, don't like it but don't also feel bad or mad about it? Some NTR do feel more hilarious than depressing to me but I think some artists try too hard to emphasize the pain and suffering. Are there some works that can put even NTR enjoyers off?

>>8185663
>Artists can draw whatever they like
Of course they can. I was just wondering why it seems the trend is mostly one way. But yes, nanashi did go from extreme to mild and even ankoman can release vanilla doujin once in a while.

>>8185688
>don't like it but don't also feel bad or mad about it?
Plenty people just enjoy it, I see usually 4 types of people reading ntr (as in netorare, netori has less heat) :
- the enjoyer, they think it's hot and that's it.
- the one who likes the art and enjoy the sex and doesn't care about it being ntr or not, sex is sex.
- the "complete meltdown in the comment", loud with """""psychology analysis""""" comments added sometime about people enjoying the fetish. I think it's more telling about them than anything.
- the "not my thing", the majority of people actually imo.

If you can't read it without feeling bad, just avoid the stories with ntr, it's no big deal, there are thousands of stories out there.

>>8185704
I wish I could just avoid the genre altogether. But as I said, missing out on the good stuff that will be blocked together with the NTR/cheating tags is worse than having to read NTR. I guess there are very few people like me so nobody can really help then.

>>8185728
I guess you can enjoy the art without reading the story.

>>8185649
Hi, I am the seemingly rare non-NTR loving Japanese person どうも初めまして

Don’t really get it either, I remember getting of to it when I was a teen (along with a bunch of other fucked up stuff) but nowadays I just go for vanilla and consensual free use stuff.

>>8186589
How do you feel when they put netorare and vanilla in the same book?

>>8186651
“Why the fuck would you ruin this?” Mostly

In games though it depends on if it’s skippable, if then I play normally, I usually play through games with a “guardian angel” perspective making sure the characters get their happy endings and oddly enough it feels way more satisfying knowing that I protected two young lovers from a bunch of assholes.

>>8186684
What if it's a game and there are routes for both vanilla and NTR, would you still play it for vanilla route alone?

>Strongly dislike Netorare doujins
>Strongly enjoy Netorare JAVs
Someone explain this to me. I think it's because a subconcious part of my brain knows that with real people, it's all just actors and that none of these people are in relationships.
It also probably helps that I can't understand a word they're saying.

i only hate BSS with `CF

>>8185071
>Question
is it still NTR if it's rape and blackmail?

>>8187569
I think that's normal. Netorare JAV is clearly just actresses, it's very obvious that it's not real and just acting. I also don't mind netorare doujin of non-NTR series because it is clearly just a parody.

I hate original work netorare. Why do I hate them even though they are fiction too? I honestly don't know.

Non-hentai vanilla work that suddenly turns netorare one day because the author feels like being edgy some random day bothers me too but I guess that one is understandable. So I guess it depends on how "canon" the NTR is?

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>>8187657
Yes.
Also, according to exhentai, as long as the cuck doesn't consent, it's always netorare. So by default, all cheating is netorare unless the cuck allows it or is clearly shown to not giving a fuck about it. And I agree with this defintion.

>>8185071
>pic related
That one is one cheating/ntr chapter out of all non-ntr/vanilla chapters. The opposite is that one Hanpera tankoubon with one vanilla story, two nts stories and the rest ntr/cheating.

>>8187657
NTR rape is the superior fetish. Particularly if it psychologically destroys the girl and or the cuck.

>>8187657
Yes, but I wouldn't hold it against the woman if she doesn't want it or if she's not under her own cognizance, so stuff like hypnosis or drugs.

Still not a fan.

>>8187531
Yeah just the Vanilla alone, I don’t really care for NTR so I just ignore it, it’s just not for me since I don’t like assholes getting their way same reason I don’t do evil routes in Games.

I guess it’s like how I play shotos in fighting games, I understand why others play different play styles but I prefer mine as is the most, so even if I don’t play the other archetypes I don’t feel like I’m missing out on something.

>>8185071
What I don't like most about NTR is how they mostly just shit on the normal, hard-working, law abiding guys. Like so many NTR isn't even about the women if you actually think about it. They are mostly about the cuck suffering or how he actually did nothing wrong but this is how the love of his life ends up. And if they try to portray the cuck as being "wrong", it is usually for the terrible crime of working his ass off to provide for his family and can't spend 24/7 dicking his wife like the NTR men obviously could.

Most NTR scenario would work just fine if they remove the cucking angle, which is IF they are meant to be about the women getting fucked/degraded/corrupted or whatever. But the focus on the cucks actually feels both forced and misandrist sometimes, like men can only either be cucks or assholes.

There are many analysises out there about why people like such a genre like it's for the corruption aspect? Or it is about free unrestrained masculinity or repressed society or some such? I don't know but I seriously don't get the need to shit on normal dudes, even in fiction. What's wrong with guys that just want to get by even if they are boring or whatever?

>>8188734
Even if it's rape/blackmail netorare, do we really need several pages showing cuck husband being a flawed but generally good husband and his monologue of how he loves his wife and trusts that nothing bad happens to her?

I know many people are into it otherwise netorare wouldn't be popular but I guess I can never understand their point of view. Not my cup of tea seriously.

>>8188734
You misunderstand. I'm not fantasizing about being a bull, I'm the cuck and a voyeur.

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>>8188734
>>8187766
>>8185071
vanillacucks and shotas are just fuel for NTR.
that's how it works in fiction and in real life.

>>8188734
>>8188753
i'm masochist and netorare is supposed to be a masochist fetish, so the cuck pov is a must. If you want what you described, there's netori for that.

I don't think people would have nearly as much a problem with it if it weren't so prevalent.
A lot of big name artists do it, artists who go on to make games and VNs with the stuff. It feels like you can't escape it. If half or even a quarter of it were being produced, people could comfortably ignore it, but it feels like it's everywhere, even though I know it's not.

>>8188734
>And if they try to portray the cuck as being "wrong", it is usually for the terrible crime of working his ass off to provide for his family and can't spend 24/7 dicking his wife like the NTR men obviously could.

I interpret this as the underlying theme of NTR. 'Cucks' exist to get taken for granted as workhorses so that women and 'Bulls' can party hardy with impunity. At least, that seems to be what a NTR based society would look like.

Question: Do the usual tropes in NTR like, for example, rapist blackmailing victim with video of the rape have any basis in reality?

>>8188756
>tachibana
>ntr
lol

>>8185728
>But as I said, missing out on the good stuff with the NTR/cheating tags
I think you like NTR, because if you didn't like NTR you'd realize that this is a massive paradox.

>>8190020
There is no paradox. You only think there is because you either deliberately interpret it as such by intentionally omitting part of the quote or you need to work on your reading comprehension.

>>8189924
You say that like it's not one of the most infamous instances of a story going from vanilla to NTR, completely turning off the initial fans and garnering a new fanbase.

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>>8189924
It's the quintessential NTR

>>8190029
>story revolves around concept I can't stand
>but I still think it's good though
How retarded do you have to be?

>>8191128
are you pretending to be retarded on purpose?

>>8189904
Have you seen any Japanese blackmail videos circulating around the internet because the victim refused to submit to the threat? No. Because it 100% works.

>>8191152
>man I LOVE erotic stories unless they have cuckshit. I HATE cuckshit
>so filter out the cuckshit
>but what if I miss something good
OP makes zero sense and is, as usual, a faggot.

>>8191229
And how would you filter the cuckshit when they are mixed with other stuff, genius?

>>8191268
At the top of the page of sadpanda you should see a link for "My Tags". If you click it, you can go in and set different tags to either "Watched", or "Hidden". Hide whatever you don't like and you'll be able to browse freely without seeing anything you dislike.

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is reverse_netorare just NTR?

>>8191220
I'm sorry but I refuse to believe a woman would rather be raped than have a blackmail video of hers be put on the internet. It's usually some shitty blackmail anyway that no one would pay any mind to considering there's unironically tens of thousands of pieces of porn being uploaded to the internet every single day.

>>8191359
Technically, it's just a woman stealing a man from another woman.

>>8191460
There's no such thing as rape, it's only taking a dick inside a hole designed for taking dicks, make it akin to getting bit by a dog.

>>8191359
Yes and no. Technically, it is. But women can't never be cucked to the same extent as men.

I actually have a question about NTR/cheating. Why do most people seemingly want to be the guy that gets cheated on? I've always liked NTR but I always thought that getting in the headspace of the bull was the norm. It actually blew my mind a few years ago when I saw it discussed on /v/ and I noticed that most people into NTR seemingly wanted to be the guy who gets cucked. Just why?

>>8185071
Is NTR the Japanese red/blackpill? Or do they just like cuckshit?

>>8197113
Little of column A, little of column B.
Obviously a lot of them like it because they just like seeing a chick go crazy for sex, fucking up her body, mind, life, friends, family, and future because "The dick is JUST that good." Among various other reasons.

But I have no doubt Japan's more leinent stance on cheating, coupled with most men not wanting to even bother approaching women because they feel like it's pointless and a bunch of other reasons, they probably feel like netorare contains a certain realism. The idea that "there's always a bigger fish", and even if they managed to get a girlfriend, she'd probably leave them for someone better is a feeling they can't shake, so some probably look at NTR like that. An inevitability.

>>8196520

A lot of fetishes like this are motivated by repressed fears. Same reason a lot of erotic lit aimed at women features dubious consent/rape and that 4chan is constantly overrun with BBC/BNWO shit. They're exploring their anxieties in a safe space.

I'm with you though. I always identify with the bull. The MC in NTR manga are always such worms that its hard to be remotely sympathetic.

>>8196520
>I always thought that getting in the headspace of the bull was the norm.
if you actually use the term "bull" you are a cuck
that goes for you too >>8197309

>>8197333
Using the term "bull" at all has nothing to do with neither Netorare, netorase, swinging or cheating. It's delving more into the aspect of humiliation.

>>8197309
>>8196520
Not everyone even inserts as the characters. It's more about the story and the implied experience rather than the characters.

>>8191359
Assuming it's by default a thing women do to men, then yes Reverse would be the woman being the afflicted party.
I would rather name it F:Netorare instead of Reverse, as it can be confusing. Just like "orgasm" as a tag, who orgasms? The man, woman, both? So it would be F:Orgasm for a female orgasming, or F:Netorase. You get the point.

>>8191691
You are wrong.

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>>8196520
NTR is for self-inserting as the woman

>>8197333
>if you actually use the term "bull" you are a cuck
huh? Isn't that what its called in NTR/cheating tho? The one who does the fucking is the bull, the one that watches or gets cheated on is the cuck? I don't exactly know all the lingo but I'm pretty sure that was accurate.

>>8198747
>Isn't that what its called in NTR/cheating? The one who does the fucking is the bull, the one that watches or gets cheated on is the cuck?

Pretty much.

>>8198610
Why is phimosis an insult again? Most of the time it's used, the guy just has an uncut dick, not actual phimosis anyway.

>>8198747
>Isn't that what its called in NTR/cheating tho?
sure, but do you actually think anyone except the cuck calls the dude fucking his wife a bull?

>>8198815
Phimosis refers to an ill-prepared dick so by those words she's making you not a man.

>>8198815
She's doing the rare *defeat the cock* twist

>>8199348
>sure, but do you actually think anyone except the cuck calls the dude fucking his wife a bull?
Honestly I have no clue. I've only been with one girl who had a bf and I regret it to this day. I'll never do it again. Turns out that you can want to bang someone's gf fictionally but actually doing it will make you sick with guilt.

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The only acceptable NTR is the ones where the cucks actually have their revenge.

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>>8200215
bros, how vanilla cock goes from being the weakest to the strongest !?

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>>8185071

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why are most of the NTR bulls always so UGLY? like can't they look like chads or fuckboys, can't the MC get cuck by someone looking more sexy/manly.

>>8188734
This is the entire point. NTR is enjoyed most by those who are spirtually cucked rule followers. These types of men keenly feel that they've given up their real authentic selves because they're afraid of other people or because other people forced them to. This is why the antagonists in NTR are often some kind of archetype that doesn't need to follow the rules of society (ugly bastard, male gyaru, bratty shota, black guy, douchebag jock etc) and can get away with expressing their raw masculine desires which are validated by the women in the story. These stories are perverse forms of wish fulfillment, where the wish is to fetishize the triumph of "real" masculinity over the suppressed, herbivore man. The NTR enjoyer keenly resents that his authentic self has been taken away (regardless of how true this actually is), and so views the subversion with the societally more offensive masculine man fucking the woman he desires as enjoyment.

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>>8203577
Some of them even looks like Eldritch abomination.

>>8203875
Can't say I quite understand the thought process here (if what you say is true). Is it similar to the mental gymnastic of those self-hating feminist males?

>>8185071
>How do you learn to not be bothered by NTR/cheating?
I self insert as the guy doing the cucking. Which is usually some older man, so it makes things really easy.
Sometimes I imagine the MC is the younger me, and deserves what he gets for being a pussy.
Most of the time I'm just imagining stealing some naive young dude's girl though.

>>8203938
Well, as long as you don't do that shit irl, I can understand it. Personally it's not for me though, I can't really enjoy imagining myself hurting some random dudes that did nothing wrong even in fiction. Well, I can if they are just pure NPC with no thoughts. But I feel like too many NTR go out of their way to make you feel bad for the cucks rather than just have them be some background NPCs.

>>8203941
>As long as you don't do it IRL
My GF in high school never put out after six months of dating, thought I was going to marry her, then went off and sucked one of my best friends cocks, then fucked and became the GF of another.
When I visited another state, I decided it was my turn to be the asshole and steal a younger kid's girl. Got her number and was fingerbanging her in a dairy fridge the next day.
So I guess I do have some RL experience to draw on for NTR.
Really though, it's a good idea to learn that the best way to not get cheated on, is to not be a low T bitch.

>>8203943
I hope you you don't equate not being low T to being an absolute asshole and that you at least tipped off the kid about his girl being a whore.

>>8203959
She broke up with him for me soon after we started fooling around. Within like two or three days.
I saw it as a lesson that no woman will stay with a soft bitch if pursued by a direct, daring, funny, fit, and handsome asshole.
My experiences with women since then, both personally and observed, have not dissuaded me from this notion.
Especially because I lost all those features and became a fat bitch again for a while, and I was right back to being treated the same way by women as before I got fit.
They are all fucking shallow creatures.
If you come off as too weak to do anything about it, expect that those around you will take what they want from you.

>>8203966
>She broke up with him for me soon after we started fooling around. Within like two or three days.
At least you helped a bro realizing what a whore he was dating so he can move on to a better one, if he can find one that is.
But yes, learning about women can be quite a blackpill experience. Though oftenly vastly exaggerated, NTR stories can serve as cautionary tales I guess.
Basically, men have to do all the work. Women can just sit back and go with the winner after the men are done slaughtering each other, either physically or mentally.
Now, I'd like to think good women exist, though I'd estimate their number to be only around 25% of all women.

>>8203985
Getting a good woman that is also attractive is the hard part. And those that are have high as fuck standards, or they pair up or marry in high school for life.
Really, your best bet is to find an average and down to earth woman, who isn't very sexually motivated, and has other passions.
But even then, when women go through the same body transformations as I did, they usually turn into massive whores, even if they were good women before.
If anyone becomes attractive, and starts getting the attraction of other attractive people, they will take opportunities the vast majority of the time.

Cheating is not hot, it’s a huge turnoff on its own. NTR is at its best when its true focus is on the transformation of a chaste/normal woman into a crazy slut.

The relationships in the story, then, are just storytelling devices to provide some sexual tension and stakes in the story.

It’s also better when the guys have it coming - like if they rake up loads of gambling debt and the Yakuza have to slowly turn his girl into their plaything as collateral. Or if a dude makes a massive mistake at work and the girl has to work as the boss’ private secretary. Or if a bunch of mistreated workers kidnap the CEO’s wife and get payback.

The nude photoshoot JAVs are particularly good because of their focus on tension before big sexual releases.

It’s why stories with no cheating at all can still have a similar appeal - police investigators / criminal lawyers getting turned into sex slaves by gangs has a similar appeal due to the element of the girl being stolen and there being some sort of tension that pushes against the girl slutting out (before ultimately losing)

I think the key thing is the tension, then. Does anyone else agree with this sort of view?

>>8204013
Also, I should add that the majority of these stories have anti-social themes, but just like a Tarantino movie, things that would be horrific as fuck in real life are different in fiction. Nothing you see in NTR movies or manga should apply to the way you view women in real life.

I just want MILF vanilla but those are rare as fuck. NTR takes all the good MILF hentai.

>>8204013
Cheating is wrong irl but most people can separate reality from fiction.

>>8203577
>why are most of the NTR bulls always so UGLY?
so troons(the majority of the ntr demographic) can self insert as the bull

>>8198610
Unironically not losing to the cock.

bummp

>>8204013
majority of people don't really care about plots or stories on porn

>>8215312
That would be true for porn that clearly only uses "story" as the setup/premise for a specific fetish. Many NTR hentai, however, elaborate a bit too much on the story. Now that doesn't mean their stories are good or believable but they don't need to be to elicit reactions from readers. Dumb stories can still easily make people mad.

>>8204084
Yes, most people can. But empathy/sympathy isn't a thing people can easily turn off even when it comes to fiction. In fact, if people don't feel anything from fiction they we wouldn't have any fictional entertainment at all. My point is that you can understand something is not real while still feeling bad seeing it "happens". This applies not only to NTR, of course.

>>8185071
bump

>>8185071
>how do you learn not to be bothered by NTR/cheating
It's not real nigga

I like harem NTR because I hate harem protagonists.
Especially isekai harem protagonists.
God, it's such a cathartic feeling when they lose the people they took for granted.

>>8224939
Why do you hate them? I don't remember hating one that much that I like seeing them get cucked. But all the SAO Asuna NTR is funny (and hot) ngl.

I've seen quite a few NTR where the cuck sees his crush getting deflowered in front of his eyes and all he needed to do to stop that from happening was speaking up. But the cuck didn't.
And that's among the worst NTR tropes I've ever seen. It's just so pathetic.

Is this actually a thing IRL or just another make up convenient NTR plot like magical penis that turns women into evil sluts?

>>8223827
>why are you bothered by this doujin all about shit and the characters getting forced to eat shit? it's not real it doesn't smell like real shirt nigga
smartest cuck argument

>>8188734
>They are mostly about the cuck suffering or how he actually did nothing wrong but this is how the love of his life ends up. And if they try to portray the cuck as being "wrong", it is usually for the terrible crime of working his ass off to provide for his family and can't spend 24/7 dicking his wife like the NTR men obviously could.
That's symbolism for the everyday struggles of the common person. You can do everything right, and still be wronged in life.

>>8203577
>>8203917
>>8204189
Originally NTR artists made the bull ikemen so that the reader wouldn't associate with him. Readers then began to associate with the bulls so NTR artists decided to make their bulls ugly abominations to disgust the reader. This lead to some readers identifying with the bull and now we're back to normal and plain looking bulls alongside ikemen.

>>8185071
bump

Men can go sexless for a long time as necessary. Women in NTR act like they are gonna die if they don't have sex.