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I want to say a couple of things about a particular flavour of NTR which I find the most powerfully potent, and yet which is almost impossible to find.

In the meantime I'll post a couple of works by Dokuneko Noil. While their doujins don't align exactly with the type of NTR I'll be describing, I do like the art style, and I think that their work is quite innovative, for better or worse.
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>>8429240 (OP)
I do think that a lot of NTR enjoyers probably enjoy being cuckolded, which is not such a terrible thing. A smaller proportion will self-insert as the bull, which is not such a terrible thing either.

But I personally enjoy NTR because of something more abstract - the perception of things taking place above and behind the story.

We all know the rote NTR formula: a dissatisfied wife is assaulted by a man better endowed, better experienced, or more attractive than her husband. Her sex life is unsatisfactory. As a result, she will inevitably feel great pleasure during the encounter, and will return to the bull, at increasing intervals, until she has become a cock-hungry shadow of her former self, existing only for pleasure.
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>>8429250
For me, the key is an NTR setup where the woman DOES NOT ENJOY IT, not at any point; where the act itself is disgusting, repulsive, and humiliating for her; and all the psychological turmoil that follows as a result.

The key to it all is the sense of something pure being sullied, something white being stained forever. However, for this to occur in the proper manner, the woman must be -- MUST be -- of 'high quality' to begin with, 'pure' and 'white' (and I use the word white here in no way connected to race).
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>>8429261
The protagonist victims of so many NTR doujins may appear to be 'high-quality' on the surface, but their rapid descent into sluttery quickly disqualifies them.

Still, the type remains clear, and adheres to notions of high-quality women in reality: a faithful wife and devoted mother; not so young to be naive, not so old to be undesirable (a sweet spot being 30 - 40); generally kind, but not a fool; reasonably intelligent, but not waspish; attractive physically, in a pleasantly ordinary fashion (some extra pounds here and there for realism); perhaps with some kind of personal faith or spirituality.
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>>8429277
The great failure of NTR doujins by and large is that they diverge from reality so quickly, surrendering, again and again, the far more subtle and penetrating pleasures they might have won by maintaining verisimilitude.

We all know one such type of those high-quality women in real life -- a teacher, a neighbour, a friend of the family. We also know that these individuals would never fuck an ugly old man, or a child, at the most feeble insinuations of blackmail -- the risk of their son being expelled, at worst, or reprimanded for some petty crime.

We also understand that, psychologically, as I have said before, these high-quality women would in no way enjoy the experience of being fucked by someone in such a way, let alone be corrupted to the extent we see in most doujins.
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>>8429282
So where am I going with all this?

I've made this argument before -- the argument against pleasure on behalf of the protagonist-victim -- and have been referred by the NTR crowd to the rape fans, and by the rape fans back to NTR crowd, ultimately floating between both and belonging wholly to neither.

Because there is a crucial element to the ideal NTR story which one would think at first fundamentally incompatible with the notion of the experience being so traumatising: THE WOMAN HAS TO WILLINGLY ENTER IT.

I'll now sketch out the basic elements which I believe would result in a much finer, subtler, engaging story -- the high of heroin after a lifetime drunk on lager.
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>>8429285
A) The woman must be genuinely high-quality, as mentioned.

B) The woman must be extorted somehow by someone 'lower' than her. The more unnatural the pairing, the greater the capacity to convey and glean pleasure from the fall. (For an extreme example, think a beautiful A-list movie star having sex with a man with a serious learning disability, or a tall, elegant socialite being fucked by truckers in a dive bar.)

C) The extortion must be realistic. This necessitates the capacity for genuine, effective leverage. The list of possibilities are endless, but one has to tread a fine line, because too sordid a secret will diminish point A. Credit card debt seems tame enough, especially if racked up to cope with the psychological strain of a sick husband.

C1) If there is no pre-existing opportunity for leverage, the extorter must create one himself in a plausible and effective manner. Raping the woman and threatening her with footage is a no-go; any real woman would simply go to the police. Far better for a woman, with a sick husband, facing mounting bills and pressure to feed her young son, to receive a DM from a supposed stranger offering cash for feet pictures; for him to threaten spreading those pictures around the school, or hospital, or office where she works, unless she sends lingerie pictures; and so on from there.
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>>8429319
D) Whatever the system of leverage -- serious blackmail, or plausible threats, or offers of significant sums that appear, in her eyes, as a heated house, food on the table for her beloved child, medical treatment for her beloved son, and so on -- the woman must accept the terms of debasement willingly. Rape is a story that can be told, and with nuance, but if a woman is raped she doesn't 'FALL' in the manner pleasing to readers of NTR; she has kept her purity. She has to choose to debase herself, and...

E) SHE CANNOT ENJOY ANY PART OF IT. When the ugly old neighbour, or the fat school bully, or the nerd who wanted her in high school and now creeps into her house to install spy cameras, eventually fucks her, she must be revolted to her core; crying; wishing herself elsewhere; desperate for it to be over. Perhaps she vomits. Likely she scrubs herself in the shower for a long time afterwards. Certainly the psychological impact, and the residual guilt, is colossal, and more plausible given that she has RETAINED her moral system throughout the ordeal, and has willingly CHOSEN to circumvent it out of LOVE for another, not attraction to the extorter.

Love, duty, devotion -- all the traits that make her a high-quality woman -- should be the very traits that impel her to debase herself; her husband, child parent, whoever, should be more important to her than herself; the protection of them more pressing than the torture of being defiled.
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>>8429261
>where the woman DOES NOT ENJOY IT, not at any point; where the act itself is disgusting, repulsive, and humiliating for her

That is just rape.
There are blackmail stories of women getting raped.
You might enjoy those.
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>>8429329
and, finally,

F) THE TRANSITION.

There is limitless potential to protract the suffering of the protagonist-victim by other means, as the extorter grows tired of having her to himself. Certainly her participation in whatever deal was pitched has resulted in genuine, critical blackmail material, in videos and pictures of her being unfaithful. These should then be used to utterly consolidate control of her, and to use those fine traits of love and devotion to compel her to further acts of degradation and humiliation.

You see, where the first act of blackmail, extortion, coercion, or whichever device the storyteller uses, was predicated upon a fear that harm should befall her loved ones if she does not comply (or that some crucial good should be obtained for them if she does), the 'stick' utilised by the extorters, once they have possession of sex tapes and the like, should remain largely the same.

Her compliance with the extorters is not -- and should NEVER be -- because she has 'gained a liking' for debauchery. It should be for the same reasons she debased herself (with great and continuing misery) in the first place. The release of this material will destroy her family; her husband, badly sick, may die from the shock, her son may kill himself; she will be ruined forever. What is almost as bad is that the world at large, seeing those tapes, will believe her to be precisely the sort of woman commonly portrayed in NTR: the slut, the corrupted whore. She sees herself as a sacrifice offered for her family, and by doing so she retains, deep down, a sense of integrity, which she would die before seeing anyone think her without it.
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>>8429345

This is the great fear. The story can then go in almost any direction. Perhaps the extorter, being scum from the gutter, is a vigilante of sorts, and sets her a series of challenges designed to debase her further and reward those of his own sort. Perhaps she is sent to a dive bar and ordered to sleep with whoever approaches her first. Perhaps she is ordered to go hang around outside a parole office and do the same. Perhaps she is sent to the house of a newly-released murderer, or told to walk through parks and alleys at night and take whatever happens to her.

If anyone ahs any suggestions for stories which align with these principles I would hear them gladly. A good example is the first chapter of Sacrifical Mother, though even that it quite implausible, and once the son gets involved, and a basket full of toys, I tend to lose interest. I also prefer when the women aren't anatomically disfigured with breasts the size of small cars -- reasonable accurate human anatomy is a plus.
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>>8429351
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>>8429333
Realistic, well-drawn blackmail doujins where the woman doesn't enjoy it at any point are hard to come by. Even Mashiraga Aki tends to show his women blushing and moaning. If you know of any good ones I would gladly hear them.
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>>8429357
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>>8429359
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>>8429412
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>>8429420
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>>8429428
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bump
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>>8429444
I love pregnancy.
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Nobody has any blackmail NTR where the woman doesn’t enjoy it at any point? Does such a thing even exist?
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>>8429357
>If you know of any good ones I would gladly hear them.

Since you asked politely

Memory of Insult
[Deep Purple '72]
https://nhentai.net/g/12424/
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>>8431835
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>>8431837
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>>8431840
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>>8429240 (OP)
>NTR
dokuneko isn't a ntr-artist
it's a rape-artist
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>>8431586
That's not how female bodies work
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>>8431586
It's called rape?
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>>8432793
Not only a "rape artist", but potentially an all around terrible person and frankly. A sexual predator in the making. Why else does the guy always focuses his artwork around rape and sexual assault? I mean look at this garbage:
>>8429250
>>8429261
>>8429277
>>8429282
>>8429319
>>8429329
>>8429345
>>8429351
>>8429353

Tell me a person who draws this and only this as a "hobby and passion" isn't just a sexist woman-hating piece of shit, but secretly is am all around terrible person who shouldn't be around women and girls in real life, at all. The fact people like him draw this type of trash and only that as their characteristic and brand image pretty much just outs them as hidden covert wannabe rapist or just around potential predator wishing he can rape and assault women en-masse and get away with it like they fantasize and draw. "Fiction and fetishes are not real" my asshole. At least not anymore in this day and age where mental health, morality and any principles and standards are down the toilet. What you draw or write no matter how fictional and "not real" it is. IS indicative and a reflection of your character, what goes in your mind and who you truly are as a person.
>>
You're the kind of person that genuinely needs Jesus
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>>8433326
>Calling out and pointing out certain individuals and "artists who peddle and normalize degeneracy and particular types of violence and assault towards defenseless women in "art form" as morally bankrupt and dubious person of questionable morality and likelihood of toxic masculinity and degeneracy
>Yet for some fucking reason I; Me, the person who is criticizing such artists and creators for promoting such degeneracy that WILL affect reality and even real life laws and policy is the worst one. Is the weirdo one, not the rape fetishist "artist" who has clear and obvious deep seated hatred towards women and likelihood of wishing they can commit the same types of sexual violence the same way they draw and fantasize and get away with it.
>"Noooooo, please leave the poor little artist alone! He's probably starving and has Patreon and we should give him more money to promote cultural degeneracy because I just want to masturbate!!!"

Not like ANY OF YOU care or give a damn about Freedom of Expression and being "pro-porn". Y'all only defend and sympathize with these degenerate artists not because of principles but because you just don't like the negative optics of being called a normie or "lame vanilla weakling." The moment the same type of pornography and degeneracy you advocate for and defend on grounds of Freedom of Speech and Expression starts negatively affecting you, giving you a bad reputation that negatively affects your relationships with others and your public face. You all will guaranteed start being anti-porn or finally start criticizing and scrutinizing these porn artists who've been getting way too much praise and positivity than they ever deserve. (Which many of whom never deserve or earned it.)
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>>8429444
God this is such a shitty doujin.
Most of the time the Girl seems too drunk, drugged sleepy or whatever to really notice what it's happening. Where's the fun in that?
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>>8433506
>>8433310
>>8433123
Let’s not pretend that NTR isn’t inherently closely related to rape. Hell, the majority of NTR doujins I’ve read have started out with rape that becomes pleasurable. Sometimes it become pleasurable almost immediately, other times not until the last panel.

Its clearly a nebulous subject, so please let’s not play high and fuckin’ mighty, patting yourselves on the back for being slightly lesser of two evils.

Netorare (literally ‘寝取られ’, to be ‘taken away’) is ill-defined. There’s a reason for the separate cheating tag. NTR is more than that - it’s specifically designed and intended ‘to arouse feelings of loss, shame, distress’ in the reader. The whole point is an emotional response.

Rape could then be considered an especially potent form of NTR in itself. But seeing as I’m the only one whose bothered to read through OP’s boring monologue, what he actually wants is something in between: not ‘all-out rape’, like pulling a woman into a dark alley, or assaulting drugged women like what dokuneko noil is drawing, but a kind of coercive exchange, where the woman assents, but feels bad about it. This isn’t splitting hairs - there’s a big difference between a woman getting attacked in an alley and prostituting herself to save her loved ones. It’s the difference between Irreversible or I Spit On Your Grave and 300 or Forrest Gump.

In any case, OP’s posts alone have aroused such a visceral emotional response in you that it’s clear it would make an effectively potent subject matter for serious NTR enjoyers. Just don’t be faggots and make moral judgements around lines sketched on a page. For all you know OP identifies as the cucked husband still, or the woman herself, rather than the guy coercing her.
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>>8433775
Looks like I showed y’all pussies.
>>8433377
>>8433310
>>
One thing is "rape", another thing is "NTR" another thing is "moral corruption".
There is a lot of stories where the female character seduced by a douchebag is morally corrupted through and ends the story as a sex slave for the douchebag character, and they do not have "rape" or "NTR".
These are all different fetishes and the authors mix different fetishes to create a story.
People are capable of undestanding this intellectually but have some irrational fantasy for some fetish and want to put that fetish in everything.
People say that NTR equals corruption. Rape equals corruption. Something that do not even make logical sense.
The only explanation that I have is that people confuse the 2 things on purpose to generate a reaction from of people
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>>8436091
Trying saying out loud in person or publicly announce physically or broadcast yourself live saying you ot only defend pornography. But also defend and advocate for the most vile, most degenerate and most unhinge porn imaginable that contains rape, sexual violence with blood and gore, scat, beastiality, gangrape, cheating in general and NTR. Say that with your name and face live and in public or broadcasted live, will you ever do such a thing when given the opportunity out of principles and values of Freedom of Expression and Artistic Freedoms?

Or no? People like you who're all "pro-porn and horny posting, even the disgusting porn I don't like" out of principle for Freedom of Speech and Expression. Are NEVER EVER going to say that out loud in public, in a public platform or when you are broadcasted live. Nearly ALL OF YOU, never will the moment you no longer have a computer screen or online anonymity to hide behind. Because turns out and most likely that if you do indeed say out loud physically and or through live broadcasting or through public platforms that you defend such degenerate and nasty porn. It'll end up negatively affecting your own public image, your own reputation and even real.life relationships with people you care about and or matter to you.

All of you all only say you defend pornography and R34 simply because you have internet anonymity to hide behind. But the moment it's time to express those values in real life, physically with your face and name shown. None of you will out of shame and embarrassment and a lack of internet anonymity to hide behind.

So fuck off you so called defenders and advocates of Freedom of Artistic Expression.
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>>8437009
>>8437009
where's the blood and gore? Where's the scat? Where's the beastiality? I'm not into any of that. Sounds like strawman to me.

Weird that you also lump 'cheating in general' and 'ntr' in with those tags.

Your entire post is extremely hypocritical because you yourself are on this board. You are never ever going to say out loud in public that you manipulate your penis to achieve orgasm while looking at lines and colours people have drawn to look like women. That's sad and pathetic in its own right, and we're all in the same boat as far as that's concerned. Any disagreement in genre preference is a difference in type, not kind. You and me are both in the gutter together
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saved!
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>>8433310
Bruh, you're a cuck. You view women as retarded animalist sex objects that become 1000% loyal to any man with a big dick. That is the entire fetish. The rienforcement of the concept that women have no real agency and only exist to be fucked and follow the whims and commands of a strong male.

Don't even pretend to take the high ground for even a moment.
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>>8429240 (OP)
I love the one of his where the girl is so blackout drunk but lucid enough to kind of have an idea that she shouldn't be getting fucked by someone who isn't her bf
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>>8429240 (OP)
The only reason I readyjrm is cause of the Mitsuki doujin and how intimate they draw. That Chiaki one in OP is disgusting but that saliva trail makes me diamonds. The Fern ones kissing is so hot. I hate how the best doujins are always particularly depraved
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>>8459569
>Mitsuki
Misaki
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>>8429351
Kill yourself
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>>8433775
>started out with rape that becomes pleasurable.
It's still rape. It doesn't stop being rape just because the woman enjoys it. Even if the woman stops the struggle it is still rape. Women in real life also find rape pleasurable, you naive weirdo.
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>>8459820
I don't know if you're replying to the wrong guy but you're confirming my point.

The first poster was arguing that there was a huge distinction between NTR, which may start as rape but ends up highly pleasurable for the woman (and, usually, leads to a moral corruption as she seeks out further encounters with her assaulter of her own volition) and rape where the women does not enjoy it, and treats it as a traumatic experience.

I was arguing that NTR and rape in general are much more closely intertwined than he supposes, because, as you say, even if the woman enjoys it, it's still rape, and this is the key inciting incident for the the majority of NTR doujins.
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>>8462779
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Toys that never break are fun, OP. It's why I enjoy Shinozuka Yuuji's stories so much. Sure, the girls end up enjoying it a bit but they never lose themselves in the end.
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