Im finishing up Greek history and literature, I was going to move onto the Romans, but now it feels kinda wrong knowing jack shit about anything that came before them aside some vague notion of Minoans and whatever we learn in the bible. What peoples/civilizations are worth studying in that time period, I also noticed the farther back you go everything is just referred to as "XYZ Culture" with virtually nothing to go off of. Any good stuff that goes over those types of areas?Anything on audio/video would be great as I have so much garbage in my reading backlog and I can only read for so much before ADHD starts drowning me. Esoteric WE WUZ stuff also welcome as I've been having fun reading some of that as well.
>>16533680>Esoteric WE WUZ stuff?
>>16533680>What peoples/civilizations are worth studying in that time period, I also noticed the farther back you go everything is just referred to as "XYZ Culture" with virtually nothing to go off of. Any good stuff that goes over those types of areas?Considering Greece was settled from Phoenicia, it's worth having a look at the Phoenicians.
>>16533897https://archive.org/details/aebhw25>>16533955Thanks them and etruscans came up a lot.
>>16533955>Considering Greece was settled from Phoenicia So you are providing the schizo wewuz stuff. At most they set up a small colony in Thasos and around that area and a commercial enclave in two Cretan ports during the Iron age
Its worth looking into late-paleolithic and bronze age in general.There have been great advances in archeology for the understanding of the bronze age in general over the last 50 years because of so many new findings.
>>16533989The Phoenicians established coastal settlements when they discovered Europe's southern coasts. The natives, many of them killed by the colonizers, had nothing to do with escaping the dark ages or establishing the city states. Ancient Greek is modified Phoenician, even Wikipedia admits as much.https://www.heritage-history.com/index.php?c=read&author=delmar&book=ancient&story=europe
>>16534059Greeks founded a colony at El-Mina in Phoenicia around the same time that the Phoenicians visited Greece; Greeks (Mycenaeans) also colonized Cyprus before the Phoenicians did and controlled 90% of it even after the Phoenicians started settling it; Greeks (Philistines) also colonized the Southern Levant neighbouring Phoenicia; Greek Ionian pirates terrorized Tyre itself as recorded by the Neoassyrians themselves.>even Wikipedia The wewuzer is a wikipedia whumper, who'd have thunk!>when they discovered Europe's southern coasts. Mycenaeans got there before the Phoenicians
>>16534059>Greek is modified Phoenician, even Wikipedia admits as much. That's the alphabet, not the language, 2 digit IQ post. For the record Minoans, the original inhabitants of Greece even before the Greeks appeared, came up with their own writing in 2000 BC, before the Phoenicians did come up with any writing system of their own.
>>16533988What is wrong with Germans why are they like this?
>>16534080>That's the alphabet, not the language, 2 digit IQ post. For the record Minoans, the original inhabitants of Greece even before the Greeks appeared, came up with their own writing in 2000 BC, before the Phoenicians did come up with any writing system of their own.And after that literacy was lost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Dark_Ages>During the Dark Ages of Greece, the old major settlements were abandoned (with the notable exception of Athens), and the population dropped dramatically. Within these three hundred years, the people of Greece lived in small groups that moved constantly in accordance with their new pastoral lifestyle and livestock needs, while they left no written record behind leading to the conclusion that they were illiterate. Thomas R. Martin, considers that later on (between 950 and 750 BC), the Greeks relearned how to write, but using the alphabet of the Phoenicians instead of the Linear B script used by the Mycenaeans, innovating in a fundamental way by introducing vowels as letters. "The Greek version of the alphabet eventually formed the base of the alphabet used for English today."This is basic wikipedia shit, not "schizo wewuz stuff", like you falsely claimed.
>>16534108You said language, retard. You spouted a lot of grossly uneducated stuff in your post that I've debunked.Greeks came up with urbanization on their own unlike Phoeniggers who were an Egyptian vassal colony during most of the Bronze age. Yes they suffered a set back in the BA collapsed and the Phoenicians recovered faster because there was a power gap in the Levant with the Egyptian Kingdom frammenting, this doesn't mean shit. Literal Greeks were living in the Levant when your precious Phoenicians showed up in Greece. Saying that the Phoenicians discovered Greece is pure non sense.
>>16534077>Greeks (Who were Phoenician colonists) founded a colony in PhoeniciaNo shit sherlock. Starting to get it?
>>16534120Greeks weren't Phoenician colony, Greek is Indoeuropean and Phoenicians spoke a Semitic language. They're as related as Japanese and Hindu. Either you're retarded or a troll, probably both.
>>16534118>GreeksThe people you think of as Greeks were people from Asia seeking liberty on the European coasts, very similar to how American and Australian colonies started
>>16534127This also explains why people in Lazio have genetics similar to "Greeks", as Etruria was another Phoenician colony.
>>16534127>>16534134Ok, you're a troll. Filtered. Bye.
>>16533955Yeah take a look at their vast literature like:"Today I sacrificied (my son) to you Baal Hammon, thank you for curing my illness!" stele # number 129That's a master piece
>>16534143For those wondering the source:>Following these earlier adventurers came regular colonists. Both Greece and Etruria were settled from Phoenicia. These colonists partook to some extent of the character of the discoverers and adventurers who had preceded them. They retained their mining character, they spurned agriculture, and preferred buying their supplies of food in Egypt to raising it themselves. They were brave, reckless, adventurous, and cruel; they fought one another with ferocity; they imperilled their lives for the most trifling advantages; they pushed their way into the forests and explored the newly found continent from the Mediterranean to the Alps; they forced the natives into their mines and slew them without remorse. On the other hand, they had their own women with them, which their predecessors had not; they reared legitimate offspring; they built permanent homes, and they introduced the social influence of the mechanic arts and the refining effects of letters.From: >>16534059
You guys got any reccomendations to read/watch/listen or just going to have a thread about pheonicians actually or not actually being proto greeks?This is worse than brits larping as the line of zara
>>16533955Greece was "settled" thousands of years before Tyre was a concept in someone's mind, by European Neolithic farmers.
>>16534232Talent type LARPers have become some of the most insufferable on the Internet. It's a rather shocking downward spiral.
>>16534389>Talent*Taleb
>>16534355So was the American continent. Doesn't mean any colonies there were a myth.
>>16534392Show me where Taleb cited Alexander Del Mar, now I'm interested.
>>16534232>You guys got any reccomendations to read/watch/listen or just going to have a thread about pheonicians actually or not actually being proto greeks?You asked for audiobooks, unfortunately many of the relevant books don't have audiobook versions, but I found a video covering the Phoenicians.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POrAzLxb6Ck
>>16534404I'm sure some proto-semitic and Semitic colonies existed there and elsewhere, but saying Greece "was settled by Phoenicians" implies it was an event like what happened to America, with Phoenicians being like the Anglos or Spaniards. Didn't happen like that. Cretan and Aegean civilization sprung up from EEF almost exclusively.
>>16534389And yet you haven't recommended a single thing to the OP. You're part of the downward spiral.
>>16534419>I'm sure some proto-semitic and Semitic colonies existed there and elsewhere, but saying Greece "was settled by Phoenicians" implies it was an event like what happened to America, with Phoenicians being like the Anglos or Spaniards. Didn't happen like that. Cretan and Aegean civilization sprung up from EEF almost exclusively.There indeed was such an event. You just haven't read anything brought up in this thread. Citing again because you're slow:>There is every reason to believe that the discovery and colonization of Europe occurred in nearly the same way as afterwards did that of America.>Twenty centuries before the Christian era much of the continent of Europe was covered with primeval forests, which man had not as yet learnt to cut down and convert to his use. On the borders of these woods, on the sea shores, the lake shores, and the river banks, roamed tribes of savages similar to those who, thirty centuries later, were found in America, and who, like them, lived on mast and wild animals, painted themselves, scalped one another, and worshipped the devil. Upon the prairie lands, and in regions where the natural clearings were of ample extent, there dwelt a more settled population, whose occupation was pasturage and agriculture, chiefly the former.
>>16534419>>16534427>About the seventeenth or eighteenth century B.C., the southern and south-western shores of the continent were first coasted by some Phoenician Eric or Columbus, and settlements were afterwards made in Greece, Etruria, Gaul, and Spain, with the object, not of colonization, but of conquest and trade. Like that of the later Spanish settlements in America, this trade was chiefly for the precious metals, which, in the days of Phoenician empire, meant gold, silver, copper, and tin, and we may reasonably surmise that in their acquisition the Phoenicians paid as little regard to the rights of nature or humanity as the Spaniards afterwards paid to them in America. Forests were hewn or burnt down, rivers were turned or filled with mining gravel, and the land was torn up and ransacked in every direction. Peaceable natives were conquered and entombed alive in their own mines, others were slain while defending their homes against the newcomers, and others again captured and led away to a distant and cruel slavery.>Following these earlier adventurers came regular colonists. Both Greece and Etruria were settled from Phoenicia. These colonists partook to some extent of the character of the discoverers and adventurers who had preceded them. They retained their mining character, they spurned agriculture, and preferred buying their supplies of food in Egypt to raising it themselves. They were brave, reckless, adventurous, and cruel; they fought one another with ferocity; they imperilled their lives for the most trifling advantages; they pushed their way into the forests and explored the newly found continent from the Mediterranean to the Alps; they forced the natives into their mines and slew them without remorse. On the other hand, they had their own women with them, which their predecessors had not; they reared legitimate offspring; they built permanent homes, and they introduced the social influence of the mechanic arts and the refining effects of letters.
>>16534419>>16534427>>16534431>These Phoenician colonists had been slaves in their own country, for such was then the condition of all the peoples of Asia; they were slaves to nobles and priests—just as the people of India remain to-day. The motive of their voyages to Europe, and of their subsequent settlement therein, was not alone wealth; it included liberty. Like the Spaniards who flocked to America in the sixteenth century, they had been either slaves or vassals in the old country; in the new one they were freemen and lords. With the advancement of agriculture in the new settlements came a more orderly state of affairs, and one that conformed more nearly to that which the colonists had left behind them in Phoenicia. Yet wages were higher, land was much more easily acquired, and exceptional fortunes more frequently made than in the mother country.>Whilst Phoenicia was founding colonies in Europe, she was trading by sea and land with India. She exchanged her Spanish silver for Indian gold in Babylon, and with this merchandise went the tale of its origin—a tale that, by exciting the cupidity of the Tartars, Indians, and other nations, to whom northern Europe was accessible by land, led to the conquest of the new continent from that direction, and eventually to the subversion of Phoenicia itself.>[..] The same remarkable difference that afterwards distinguished the southern and northern colonists of America, distinguished those of Europe. The southern colonists were adventurers and miners, the northern were conquerors and agriculturists, and while it was the policy of the former to enslave the native races and of the latter to destroy them, precisely opposite effects followed—enslavement ended in destruction and the attempt to destroy in amalgamation.
>>16534420I'm not contributing to the MENA LARP, so that can't be true. >>16534427>>16534431Del Mar has all the authority to me of a schizo WordPress blog from 2005. Please stop shitting up the thread with your nonsense. Minoan language wasn't Semitic. Greek is Indo-European.
>>16534416I'll take books too I just prefer audio for when I go on walks. ADHD sucks and I refuse to be a medicated zombie.
>>16534436>I'm not contributing to the MENA LARP, so that can't be true.You are. You're illiterate, you don't provide sources, you spread lies and falsehoods, you use fallacies, and you derail the thread (Mena LARP is not the subject of this thread)
>>16533680Sir Arthur Evans excavated the palace at Knossos and is one of the greatest sources on Minoan Civilization. He wrote several books iirc but I've only skimmed though one years ago.
>>16534461I made a recommendation in another post. Please quit being fucking weird just because no one believes you or your LARP.
>>16534463Didn't he get caught planting shit?
>>16534452AI should be getting to a point where any book you want can be read by whoever you want. Just need some autist to make it, because theres no money in something that would shit all over copyright laws etc. and big audiobook would die overnight so audible et al will be fighting tooth and nail to shut it down.
>>16534466>I made a recommendation in another post. Please quit being fucking weird just because no one believes you or your LARP.Still doesn't cancel all your other lies, illiteracy, and scheming (numbers confirm)
>>16534478He played politics, he wasn't out to steal or deceive or make a quick buck. He purchased some items for his wife long before she died and was able to locate the remaining fragments from he ruins Knossos, then did some shady shit to get his foot in the door to excavate. But not a bad man overall and mostly honest.
>>16533680find an old archived android version of GreaCon, its really helpful to learn about history in a visual way.
>>16534498Where's the lie?
>>16534504actually nvm they finally after years fixed their websitehttp://geacron.com/home-en/
>>16534507>Greeks weren't Phoenician colony, Greek is Indoeuropean and Phoenicians spoke a Semitic language. They're as related as Japanese and Hindu.
>>16534509where are the Phoenicians shill?
>>16534518>3000 BC>Phoenicianscome on now
>>16534516>Greeks weren't Phoenician colonyFact>Greek is IndoeuropeanFact>Phoenicians spoke a Semitic languageAlso fact>They're as related as Japanese and HinduNever said this once.
>>16534518As was already established, the local population was illiterate before the Greek city states were founded by the Phoenician colonists.The Minoans have as little to do with the Greek city states as the native American tribes have to do with the American government or the founding of New Amsterdam.
>>16534526>Never said this once.Illiterate retard confirmed. You don't even recall your own posts.
> Minoans and then Mycenaean started GreeceNo lmao they got raped into submission by BSC and amounted to nothing but slave cattle for the entire time Greece was relevant. The only good thing they did was stop Sparta from chimping out and destroying Athens every time they had a revolt.
>>16534542No you're just confusing anons because you're a schizo LARPer. I never mentioned the Japanese or jeets once. Note how that's what you attack in that post because of of how delusional everything else you've posted as once. You may as well post Newton's schizo writings on alchemy on /sci/ to post Del Mar on /his/ threads about ancient Greece just lmao.
Reminder who actually settled and conquered greek lands
>>16534518Hate images like this. Not only was Sumer not the first civilization, it's also highly misleading because you'd think nobody lived anywhere else.
>>16534552unironically makes more sense than Phoenicians
>>16534552Where is that from?>>16534550>No you're just confusing anons because you're a schizo LARPer.Stop derailing the thread with lies and fallacies.>I never mentioned the Japanese or jeets once.You have >>16534123>Greeks weren't Phoenician colony, Greek is Indoeuropean and Phoenicians spoke a Semitic language. They're as related as Japanese and Hindu.
>>16534555its not an image, its an interactive map, go to the website. I guess its TECHNICALLY an image, but you get the point.
>>16534556A great deal of Phoenicians converted to judaism
>>16534552the greatest WE WUZ image I've seen to date, bravo!
>>16534560>lies and fallaciesNone of those are mine, nor was that post you added mine. He's not wrong about you being a retard or a troll though.
>>16534570>gets called out on their lies>it wasn't me I swear!Classic.
>>16534574You aren't very clever anon.
I'd appreciate all these bumps if /his/ wasn't one of the slowests boards on the site.
>>16534599Slowest mentally or slowest in post rate? Or both?
>>16534600/his/ is at least a step up from /pol/ if only because tourists and shills don't know it exists or think it's some homo board
>>16534584I'm clever, just not very clever?Thank you
>>16534232the line of zara? what? who?
>>16533955>Considering Greece was settled from Phoenicia"Black Athena"-ass bullshit.
