What if Basal Eurasians never existed?
>>16534775Proto-WHG????
>>16534790El Miron and Arene Candide aswell as tagliente are all signs of early "proto" WHG.
>>16534796Well, could you point me to an article, data or anything about the ramifications and origins of the Mesolithic people? mainly Europeans?I have a lot of difficulty.for example, what about the Solutreans?
>>16534807Magdalenians, Solutreants, Aurignacians etc are their own Cro-Magnon fournol/goyet related hunter gatherers. They would gradually mix with incoming WHGs after the last glacial maximum starting from as early as 19 000 BP. Today they are extinct but lives on in modern europeans through their WHG, but in very low %. Like less than 1% in most cases.
>>16534821This shows the timeline and ancestries.
>>16534775Basal Eurasian never existed.
>>16534826https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-05726-0The paper I got it from.
>>16534826Even Villabruna had ANE so this chart i somewhat missing.
>>16534775>no natufians>no farmers>no semites>no wops>no zoomalis
>>16534775why do we pretend Ust Ishim and Tianyuan, two guys further from East Eurasians than West Eurasians are, are somehow at the root of the east eurasian populations?
>>16534842Because Asian masculinity is something you can't take lightly chud.
>>16534840Villabruna MAN had ANE. The Villabruna cluster IE Italian WHGs didn't. Such as AC16.
>>16534849I wonder if chinks realize Tianyuan and Ust Ishim were large browed, proto armenoids with shaggy hair, narrow noses, and heavy beards.
>>16534857Villabruna Man was a part of the cluster obviously so I worded that weird. Not ALL Villabruna cluster samples had ANE, but Villabruna man did.
why were east eurasians in europe?
>>16534884because geneticists didnt expand their samples to include Northern and South Eurasian clades of Eurasians meaning you get odd things like Aurignacians being classified as Eastern and proto-Abos being classified as Western.
>>16534866Is that for 100% sure? I get the methods geneticists use for populations vs populations are sound, but on individual bases, having ANE show up in there, couldn't that just be like having a modern Euro get some trace Finnish and Basque % in commercial results? Know what I mean?
>>16534890are you knowledgeable on this stuff? who lived in europe before WHG and what happened to them? where'd they come from and where'd WHG come from?
>>16534897It is quite sure. Villabruna man had even R1b and excess ANE compared to Loschbour (pure af WHG).
>>16534821>>16534826Thank you!
>>16534898No he isn't and deeply retarded.
>>16534898>who lived in europe before WHG and what happened to them? See >>16534826There were Fournol/Goyetoids from Aurignacian Cro-Magnons and also Vestonice who disappeared. Goyetoids would mutt themselves to death with WHG.>where'd they come fromAurignacian migrants from West Asia back in the Upper Paleolithic >and where'd WHG come from?We don't know for sure, but Epigravettian-culture related folk post Last Glacial Maximum somewhere in Italy and the balkans is safest bet
>>16534909>We don't know for sure, but Epigravettian-culture related folk post Last Glacial Maximum somewhere in Italy and the balkans is safest betJust Italy.
>>16534905explain
>>16534901Where did the ANE come from and how did they enter Europe? this was clearly pre-yamnaya.
>>16534914Most inbred WHGs are south italian whilst the genetically diverse were northern. It is clear they spread north to south. So north Italy could be the Urheimat I guess.
>>16534919My guess, if it's a real thing in Villabruna, WHG fournol villabrunas came from a similar place in the world as Yamnayas came from not the balkans
>>16534909There were Fournol/Goyetoids from >Aurignacian Cro-Magnons and also Vestonice who disappeared. Goyetoids would mutt themselves to death with WHGSo the WHG didn't come from Cro-Magon populations?So who is your broader ancestor?
>>16534919See >>16534826End of LGM have ANE move more and more west. Probably kept moving until interaction with WHG. Honestly the ANE-WHG interaction is the most interesting by far in European genetics. How EHG and such formed and when? Where?
>>16534931>So the WHG didn't come from Cro-Magon populations?Nope, WHG is its own thing. >So who is your broader ancestor?Hypothetical ancient West Eurasian meta population.
>>16534929Sorry for the questions that may seem retarded, I really don't know ANYTHING about this friend.I read an article that said that the ANE are native to western Siberia and entered Europe in the lower Paleolithic and mixed with the WHG, since they did not become extinct until relatively modern times, as are the tarim mummies that everyone thought were IE .
>>16534939>How EHG and such formed and when? Where?Based on this, perhaps the EHG were formed from this mixture of ANE+WHG???
>>16534953Yeah, but when? And where? Oldest EHG we have is a karelian guy from 12700 BP. So we know that by this point EHG had already formed. Also, Karelia is a far place outside original WHG homeland so the mixing event is confusing where it took place. All that we know is that ANE was penetrating Europe by 14000 BP and that by 12700 BP EHGs were formed.
>>16534946>I read an article that said that the ANE are native to western Siberia and entered Europe in the lower Paleolithic and mixed with the WHG,This is true. Sidelkino cluster represents this here. >>16534826Oberkassel and Villabruna are WHGs.
>>16534775Imagine a world of only negroids and dravadian abos. VHG...Aliens would bow before humanity.
>>16534971I'm not an archaeologist, I just work as a fast food vendor at Burger King, but I have a fanfic LOLFirst we have to determine some geographic issues, as you said, Karelia was outside the territory of the WHG, but I don't think it's very "impossible" that they arrived in the territory, since they were hunter-gatherers and were not established farmers.Anyway, the ANE coming from Siberia makes geographical sense that their "stopping point" would be Eastern Europe. geographical proximity obviouslyand this is where I have a fanfic...I believe that the ANE were using the area for hunting and gradually WHG groups started to go there, and over time, they mixed to create the EHG. It's not too impossible to think about it, HG are very mobile. There is also the possibility that ANE entered the interior of Europe instead of WHG going to them.but I'm not sure if it was violent... we know that at least in the beginning, the ANF/WHG interactions were not very calm.but I don't know if the ANE ancestry is paternal or maternal, if it is paternal there was (maybe*) violence between them.the tribes of northern America always killed each other, maybe something similar.Dude, I'm going to sleep, tomorrow when I get home from work, I'll answer you
>>16535023>but I don't know if the ANE ancestry is paternal or maternalit's paternal since they were ane R and not whg I
>>16535023>There is also the possibility that ANE entered the interior of Europe instead of WHG going to them.This is more likely. As ANE enters WHG already in 14000 BP Italy. Also, my "questions" are more so thinking out loud lmao. I don't expect you to have to answer them.>but I'm not sure if it was violent... we know that at least in the beginning, the ANF/WHG interactions were not very calm.>but I don't know if the ANE ancestry is paternal or maternal, if it is paternal there was (maybe*) violence betweenIt was Paternal ANE men taking WHG women to form EHGs.
One of the reasons I think WHG was more spread out than Italy only is due to EHG formation/ethnogenesis. I think there were WHGs in the balkans and maybe even westernmost Ukraine. I think ethnogenesis of EHG happened in east Balkans around 14000 BP and then spread out all over to places like Karelia.
>>16534775Didn’t East Asian come south not north?
>>16534775Basal Eurasians are just a statistical artefact.
>>16534842Because AG3 couldn't handle her mare's milkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8vQolM_dRM
>>16534775Jōmon has leftover West Eurasian dna
>>16536960https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_huPUjKB19k
>>16534916>>16534905>>16534898I know what I am talking about yes, however there are a lot of brown people who take it as a personal affront when I correct them on ancient populations.Gravettians and Magdalenians lived in Europe prior to WHG, WHG itself is a subset of Gravettians from Northern Italy who underwent an extreme bottleneck but also have some outside admixture from Eastern Europe which is similar to Sunghir who were a cousin group to Gravettians.WHGs survived while Gravettians and Magdalenians did not. Its not totally known why.Maybe WHG wiped them out like for instance WHG survives a glacial period in North Italy, evolves into some spectacular hunter, and outcompetes or conquers everyone else in their region. But it is worth stating Magdalenians survived in Iberia for a very long time and WHGs in Iberia as late as 8k years ago had the equivalent of a Magdalenian grandfather one half Magdalenian grandmother.When did Magdalenians die off, unknown but they survived long enough that Magdalenians interbred with WHGs and Iberian WHGs (some) were 1/3 Magdalenian even as the Neolithic people spread into Iberia.Some spaniards today have paternal descent from Magdalenians.
>>16536975Jomon is interesting because their closest paternal relatives still live in Africa, but they are perhaps the oldest group of East Eurasians, predating Abos, and they have trace West Eurasian from Salkhit admixture.
>>16537006thanks mate
>>16537006>WHGs survived while Gravettians and Magdalenians did not. Its not totally known why.Goyet is Magdalenian and they did survive, retard.
