Athens:>creates a democracy in 508 BCRome: >"nuh-uh, we did it first. We founded the Republic in...uh...509 BC!">this is accepted by historians as the actual founding date of the RepublicWhy?
Nobody actually knows.You would have to actually know the actual reigns of the kings of rome to do the calculations.And no one knows the exact years.
This is why:>The early Roman Republic (509–264 BCE) and the preceding regal period (753–509 BCE) are the most poorly documented periods of Roman history. Historical writing in Rome did not begin until the late 3rd century BCE, when Rome had already completed its conquest of Italy.So basically no one knows, and they just go with the 509 BC date because it's the established date.
>>16536026The Roman archive got burned by the Gauls in 390 BC, all the episodes before that, including the so called treaty with Carthage in 509 BC ------- which makes zero sense historically since neighbouring Caere was the main power in the area at the time, so it makes more sense that if such a treaty was signed it was between the maritme powers of Caere and Carthage, not Rome and Carthage --------- are in all likelihood for the most part fabrications and legends sometimes vaguely based on a faint memory of real events
The annals probably had that information.>Annals are a year-by-year arrangement of historical writing. In Roman historiography, annals generally begin at the founding of Rome. Proper annals include whatever events were of importance for each year, as well as other information such as the names of that year's consuls, which was the basis by which Romans generally identified years. The annals seem originally to have been used by the priesthood to keep track of omens and portents.But they got burned by the Senones in their sack of rome in 390 BC.
They aren't even the same so why do you think this is a competition? Also what even is the end date for the athenian democracy? Philip II? This part is never talked about even though its not lost to the mists of the past.
>>16536147>Also what even is the end date for the athenian democracy?Probably 404 BC when Spartans took over Athens.
>>16536147>Philip IIFair enough, that or Sulla's sack. Either way Athens remained a democracy (but not like the 'radical democracy' of the peloponnesian war time) and retained the right to assemble its own militia all the way to the third century crisis when it did so like a bunch of other greek cities when a gothic fleet (probably hijacked the roman fleet stationed in the client kingdom of bosphorus since forever) ransacked the entire region in the 3rd century
>>16536159Thirty tyrants were not spartan.
>>16536163They were pro-Spartan oligarchs, so what's the difference?
>>16536163no, they were _appointed_ by Sparta before the latter fucked off, which is arguably worse since they had little supervision and went on to commit atrocities to stay in power
>>16536165they were ousted and democracy restored after? this happened once during the war w/ Sparta even
