With recent findings suggesting their I2 haplogroups are from GAC rather than Yamnaya-related migrations, can we consider these a EEF continuation? Tollense battle victims too had I2 from GAC most likely, and their Stepp-WHG-ANF ratios were way out of left field compared to modern populations, indicating a high-WHG GAC holdout in Europe for thousands of years.
They were destroyed and wiped out. The I2 in Europe today is derived from the steppe and not WHG farmers.
>>16550458>They were destroyed and wiped out. The I2 in Europe today is derived from the steppe and not WHG farmers.This is news to me. Preprint said Don Yamnaya (I2 Yamnaya) didn't spread their genetics>The late 4th millennium BCE admixtures with European farmers and UNHG-admixed populations frame the Dnipro-Don region from west and east, providing another line of evidence for the formation of the Yamnaya within this region. Y chromosome haplogroup sharing—which traces the entirely male line and is of particular interest in societies that have patrilineal traditions—(Fig. 3) is less informative for tracing the origins of the Core Yamnaya, but proves continuity of the Don Yamnaya with their Serednii Stih ancestors. Haplogroup I-L699 was an important lineage in the Dnipro area since the Neolithic hunter-gatherer period, continued to be prevalent among the Serdenii Stih, and in the Don Yamnaya was dominant (17/20 instances).>It is interesting that after the Don Yamnaya formed they participated little or not at all in the Core Yamnaya expansion to either the Altai or SE Europe, and thus the Lower Don represented a cul-de-sac for the Yamnaya expansion.
>>16550458There are still many pockets of I2 that come from pre-IE peoples though.
>>16550466Don Yamnaya was raped by Core Yamnaya, but I2 haplogroups in the steppe are ancestral to modern European I2. The WHG subclades are practically extinct.
>>16550475Core Yamnaya had barely any I2 though.
>>16550477Core Yamnaya didn't have any I2 and they replaced Don Yamnaya.
>>16550472Where? Basques are R1b. Slavs have steppe I2. The only place where pre-IE I2 survived is Sardinian I2 which is 30% of Sardinians.
Tollense guys are dead ends seemingly. They are proof of extended EEF groups in Europe, though. They seem to be a Steppe + very high but variable WHG EEF. We already know late farmer groups were enriched in WHG and near pure WHG existed at least around 3000 BC
>>16550478Right.
>>16550481Britain and Ireland. Which makes sense since they're so far west.
>>16550481What is steppe I2 exactly?
>>16550446What is your point?
>>16550493EEF cultural influence on groups in Europe. If they have Y dna continuity surely something cultural too must be retained.
>>16550490>Britain and IrelandI2 there is on par with E1b1b and J1. I1 is more common and it only arrived in the Medieval.
>>16550446>With recent findings suggesting their I2 haplogroups are from GAC rather than Yamnaya-related migrations, can we consider these a EEF continuation?Yes.but this is not new, it was already said that I-2 comes from EEF rich in WHG, which reappeared in the bronze age. Even in the north, the Samara ancestry never really "replaced" Europe, it was assimilated on a large scale.
>>16550496And also how long EEF lasted. Tollense guys look to be result of a mixing of Steppe with another EEF group and this is young relatively.
>>16550496there is genetic and cultural continuity.related photo:
GAC and CWC traded women for centuries. This is because GAC were agropastoralists too, not like that of southern farmoids.
GAC were not subhuman like purer ANF. This is why CWC was fine with mixing with them. Some of the greatest Steppe groups like Sintashta were GAC admixed.
wait... do you still use /pol/ or do you frequent 2015 blogs about IE? Do you still start from the premise that the IE were literally attacking and conquering IE populations?varg is correct only in *SPECIFIC*.there was a lot of cultural assimilation on the IE, in addition to the EEF having massacred several IE populations in their conflicts. mainly in Saxony.
>>16550520They never traded women. Yamnaya raped GAC to produce CWC mutts. GAC didn't have Yamnaya ancestry.
>>16550531 you donkey. This is very simplistic, especially considering the isolating nature of EEF. It was more like the Angles and Saxons, they formed a single people, even with conflicts, and if that were the case, why are I-2 haplogroups common? you can only say that they were "friends" or more likely, that both sides lost and became one with time. Even Earl CWC already had almost 30% EEF ancestry.
>>16550537Early CWC was defeated by GAC groups seeing as CWC graves are found with battle wounds in central Europe. This earned CWC's respect so they went along with mating networks, giving rise to great groups such as Sintashta.
>>16550542See Unetice bro.>>16550547CWC was not so much friends with GAC as they were trading partners and rivals but respect was earned enough seen by admixture between them.
>>16550552>See Unetice bro.They're R1b.
>>16550548several articles said this indirectly.the CWC, coming from the yamnaya (which is not PIE) still used stone weapons and some copper, and bronze was already common among the EEF at least a thousand years before, what I mean is that the EEF had an advantage, mainly Due to its superior numbers and armaments, the CWC lost more than it actually gained.their mixing took place chronologically after the CWC tombs with various injuries, such as a cut neck, punctured abdomen, etc.
>>16550566I2 aswell. We see similar elsewhere with this northern Bell Beaker like population R1b and I2. Unetice spread to Scandinavia for example.
>>16550573Related photo
>>16550573>the CWC lost more than it actually gained.I agree with the rest but this is not the case. CWC did really well as Europe is 70% R1.
>>16550573>bronze was already common among the EEF at least a thousand years beforeOnly in the Balkans and Italy. >what I mean is that the EEF had an advantageThe WHG farmers used stone tools.>their mixing took place chronologically after the CWC tombs with various injuries, such as a cut neck, punctured abdomen, etc.Then why did their haplogroups die off?
>>16550552>>16550552That's exactly what I said, my dudeThey were not essentially enemies, they had contact with each other in addition to fighting and this was frequent, in fact.the conflicts were later and in the end they mixed.
>>16550582Only Western Europe is 70% R and that was done by the Bell Beakers.
>>16550573>the CWC, coming from the yamnaya (which is not PIE)Actually Latest study says Yamnaya is PIE>We identify the Yamnaya population as Proto-IE for several reasons. First, the Yamnaya were formed by admixture ∼4000 BCE and began their expansion during the middle of the 4th millennium BCE, corresponding to this linguistic split date between IE and Anatolian. Second, the Yamnaya were the source of the Afanasievo migration to the east62 a leading candidate for the split of the ancestral form of Tocharian, widely recognized as the second split after that of Anatolian.63 Third, the Yamnaya can be linked to the languages of Armenia45 via both autosomal and Y-chromosome ancestry after ∼2500 BCE, and to the languages of the Balkans13 such as Greek.45,47 Fourth, the Yamnaya can be linked indirectly to other IE speakers via the demographically and culturally transformative Corded Ware and Beaker archaeological cultures of the 3rd millennium BCE that postdate it by centuries. Most people of the Corded Ware culture of central-northern Europe had about three quarters of Yamnaya ancestry,2 a close connection within a few generations that can be traced to the late 4th millennium BCE. The Beaker archaeological culture of central-western Europe also shared a substantial amount of autosomal ancestry with the Yamnaya and were also linked to them by their possession of R-M269 Y-chromosomes.3 The impact of these derivative cultures in Europe leaves no doubt that they were linguistically Indo-European as most later Europeans were; the Corded Ware culture itself can also be tentatively linked via both autosomal ancestry and R-M417 Y-chromosomes with Indo-Iranian speakers via a long migratory route that included Fatyanovo20 and Sintashta4,22
>>16550591East Europe is R1a from CWC too. Bell Beakers also got R1b from CWC.
>>16550588I agree. GAC was 25-33% in groups such as Sintashta, And Estonia_CordedWare. However Bell Beakers got extra farmer dna that was not as excellent nor good. Bell Beakers mixed with alpines in Northern Italy for example.
>>16550584>Only in the Balkans and Italy.It is not necessarily wrong, but the occurrence was not limited to such regions.and copper was very common, superior to stone.the same as above.>Then why did their haplogroups die off?Why has haplogroup I2 undergone resurgence several times? Why is the dominant haplogroup among Germanics i-2? and why were the Proto-Celts more EEF than IE? or false because southern Europe has an average of 20~30%? you can say the largest population, but places like Spain still don't reach that number.I can go further;Why did late IE cultures have more EEF components than IE? the bell beakers.
>>16550612I1 is unknown actually. We don't know if it's EEF.
This is the closest Pre-I1 found yet. It is found in a mixed Funnelbeaker EEF and WHG group.
>>16550594No.No, because Yamnaya spread all non-amatolian Proto-Indo-European-Anatolian languages.... Yamnaya and Anatolians both descend from CLV so I guess CLV is urheimat. The Urheimat ancestor is CLV which splits into Anatolian and PIE (Yamnaya) .CLV is PIE, not yamnaya.the same yamnaya, who ironically, had the same case as CWC; Yamna and CT cultures co-existed and engaged in trade for centuries with each other before the CT culture collapsed and due to deforestation and climate change related crop failures.Because the steppe pastoralists weren't totally reliant on agriculture, they survived the famine and expandeNot by le warrior of steppe
>>16550584Funnelbeakers had Copper Axes and metallurgy. Not sure about GAC.
>>16550637>>16550573Yes.
>>16550632I know the study, I know CLV is Urheimat but Yamnaya is said to be PIE or ancestor of all non-anatolian languages. CLV gave rise to both Yamnaya (PIE) and Anatolian.>The Yamnaya culture stands as the unifying factor of all attested Indo-European languages. Yet, the homogeneity of the Yamnaya patrilineal community was formed out of the admixture of diverse ancestors, via proximal ancestors from the Dnipro and CLV clines (Fig. 2e). Yamnaya and Anatolians share ancestry from the CLV Cline (Fig. 2e,f), and thus, if the earliest IA language speakers shared any genetic ancestry at all—the possibility of an early transfer of language without admixture must not be discounted—then the CLV Cline is where this ancestry must have come from. On the Anatolian side, we see that ancestry from the southern Caucasus Neolithic end of the CLV Cline was impactful during the Chalcolithic and Bronze Ages45 and Bronze Age Central Anatolians over the time span of Hittite presence there also had traces of Lower Volga-related ancestry which implies an origin north of the Caucasus (Fig. 2f; Extended Data Fig. 1).
>>16550648thanks. you agreed with me.
>>16550612>It is not necessarily wrong, but the occurrence was not limited to such regions.It was. Bronze isn't found outside the EEF in the Balkans and Italy. Copper had a bit more spread to other EEF areas like LBK.>and copper was very common, superior to stone.Copper wasn't known to most WHG farmers like the GAC and British EEF.>Why has haplogroup I2 undergone resurgence several times?It didn't. I2 is a small haplogroup and most of the surviving lineages are steppe ones.>Why is the dominant haplogroup among Germanics i-2? The most common haplogroups in Germanics are R1b, I1, and R1a. I2 is uncommon.
>>16550548>>16550608Aryans bros, cope or true?
>>16550669It is known since ages that Corded Ware mixed with GAC. Also, early Corded Ware did fight with GAC as seen by battle wound graves. Early CWC like PNL001 had died from wounds in Central Europe.
>>16550659Kek sure, but I always knew this, I was the one who posted the study texts in last thread lmao.I think people are confused about what PIE is. PIE is itself a descendant of Indo-Anatolian. Indo-Anatolian is CLV, which split into PIE and Anatolian (hittite)
>>16550661>It was. Bronze isn't found outside the EEF in the Balkans and Italy. Copper had a bit more spread to other EEF areas like LBK.>Copper wasn't known to most WHG farmers like the GAC and British EEF.literally someone posted a tool here.but I show you this, something copper
>>16550661>It didn't. I2 is a small haplogroup and most of the surviving lineages are steppe ones.let's ignore that the first CWC were almost 30% EEF, the cultural continuities, the various significant substrates, etc.>The most common haplogroups in Germanics are R1b, I1, and R1a. I2 is uncommon.Yes. I1, very IE, doesn't?
>>16550661I2 is not from Steppe. Don Yamnaya didn't spread anything as said by the study.>>16550466
>>16550681They lost in several battles, the tombs of Saxony are clear about this, and besides, those who were most mobile among the CWC were their women. interpret your mobility however you want
>>16550689>Yes. I1, very IE, doesn't?I1 is not found in IE but neither EEF. We don't know who founded it.
>>16550695Women are usually more mobile in patrilocal communities. This is seen as early as neanderthals.
>>16550696I1 first starts to appear in Scandinavia in notable frequency during the late Neolithic (or even the middle)
>>16550684Some shitty ornament they bought from Balkan EEF. GAC used stone tools and had no copper tools. The weapons GAC used were stone so they had no advantage over CWC stone tools. >>16550681Nope. Baden culture lived where PNL001 was killed. GAC did nothing.
>>16550699>>16550699We don't know whether Neanderthals were patriarchal or not. And I wasn't really talking about that, my friend, I was talking about how your mobility occurred, what were the premises for that, you answered that question.
>>16550700Yes, but it's not found in other CWC or EEF so it cannot be attributed to either. Most likely a local development that had no real grandesque origin.
>>16550689>let's ignore that the first CWC were almost 30% EEFOne sided rape and CWC was mostly Yamnaya.>the cultural continuitiesLike?>various significant substratesBesides Germanic?>16550693Cope and seethe.
>>16550706Actually we can guess Neanderthal social dynamics by interelatedness of its family units. Someone made a video about ithttps://youtu.be/I3gMqfqahf4?si=winYL6SqbK2LE7lzAlso, Patrilocal whilst usually patriarchal too denotes more so which part of the family moves where. In patrilocal communities, the wife moves to the husband's domain.
>>16550716My point here is that both GAC and CWC are patrilocal and thus traded wifes with one another.
>>16550704My mistake, but GAC is still the genetically most close to the EEF source in CWC and I2 is more common than Baden G2.
>>16550704>>16550704>Some shitty ornament they bought from Balkan EEFyou lost in the arguments... you are acting like a poltard.it did not come from the Balkans and I support your argumentative tactics;"some shit made with prehistoric material, related photo"
>>16550713>Cope and seetheIt's literally a new study with best yet coverages. Released a few days ago.
Frisian, stop seething you little muppet. Would CWC breed with subhumans? Unlikely. Bell Beakers maybe as they had alpine EEF ancestry, but GAC was pastoral.
>>16550713>>16550713>Beyond Germanic?basically almost all southern European languages> One-sided rape and CWC were mostly Yamnaya.It doesn't change what I said. Do I need to show you that the euros from the north have very close ancestry to EEF and Samara?? It's not like in the south where it's 60% to 20%. or 15%>I likeGermanic burials, bell beakers, practically all southern European, including names of deities, the name athena is not IE.
Frisian, you are half GAC. Why talk shit about your own ancestry? Europeans are equidistant between Yamnaya and GAC.
>>16550716I know everything you said. but being supposedly patrilineal is not synonymous with patriarchal, we will use the example of the NW Indians, who practiced patrilineality, but were not essentially patriarchal... or even the proto-Celts, however, on the contrary.
>>16550755My point is that both GAC and CWC trade women between each other.
>>16550695???another victory for women We are the ones who move to the land and not the men, anyway, we are the ones who colonize the places.Very women european
>>16550754Yes?
>>16550721They did not and GAC doesn't have Yamnaya.
>>16550729You lost. It's an ornament and not a tool or weapon. The weapons GAC used were stone so they had no advantage over CWC stone tools (this is what this argument is about and why you keep losing).
>>16550773why did the Cimmerians have such a high steppe if they came from the less steppe Andronovo and were R1a?
>>16550727Pre-IE I2 is less common in Europe than G2a. Steppe I2 is more common than both.
>>16550795There is no evidence yet that South Slavic I2 is of steppe origin.
>>16550804South Slavic I2 is not found in any WHG or EEF cultures. It's closer to the Don I2 samples.
>>16550809unetice R1a was z280, that is, Proto-Slavic, I2 probably too.
>>16550780>>16550780retarded? your argument was about GAC not having metals, which is false as me and another guy posted.
No one refuted OP
>>16550820I can tell you're retarded which is you had to shift goalposts again after losing again. Your argument was that GAC used bronze weapons and I proved that was false. Then you argued GAC used copper weapons and I proved that was false. I've beat you every time.
>>16550829What's next from this retard? Is retard going to claim GAC exchanged wives with CWC again? I proved that was false too.
>>16550829> I can say that you are retarded, that is, you had to change the goalposts again after losing again.I didn't "change" my position, you idiot. the argument was about "the GAC had no metals" which is false, and you got lost here... show me I said it in spades. my photo was about his idiotic way of arguing, where he belittled the artists and cope with being from the Balkans without evidence. did you understand?>Your argument was that the GAC used bronze weapons and I proved that to be false.never was. >So you argued that the GAC used copper weapons and I proved that to be false. I beat you every time.no. my argument was about metal in general. you lostyou are almost 40% GAC, by the way.
>>16550594NoPIE= CLV https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/09/is-yamnaya-overrated.html
>>16550854>I didn't "change" my positionYou lost.>the argument was about "the GAC had no metals" How can that be the original argument? That claim appeared for the first time.>never was.Yes it was Ahuwar you claimed "Due to its superior armaments, the CWC lost more than it actually gained" and "Early CWC was defeated by GAC groups". Neither of those are true. >no. my argument was about metal in generalNo you specified "superior armaments" that were bronze which never existed. GAC used stone tools and weapons.
>>16550867CLV is derived from SS EHG.
>>16550894No
>>16550907EHG rich Sredny migrates to Chechnya, mixes with churkas, gives rise to Progress eneolithic, reverse migration from the northern Caucasus gives rise to Yamnaya and early CWC.
>>16550894No.>>16550919Sredny is not EHG. You are retarded.
>>16550944early Sredny = +80% EHG.
>>16550458>>16550481Slav I2 isnt from the steppe.
>>16550949Early Sredny is 40% EHG 40% EEF and 20% WHG. That changed when Steppe populations conquered them.
>>16550458This isn't true. >>16550966This isn't true.
>>16550967retard, I already showed you these samples.https://pastebin.com/RVBaj3RT
>>16550967What evidence is there that Sredny was conquered? And by whomst on the Steppe?
>>16550842>I proved that was false tooHow so?
>>16550976You don't even know which country is which, retard.
>>16550980idiot, Srednestogovskaya literally translates to Sredny Stog from Russian.
>>16550708What does "grandesque"possibly imply in such a context? That's not even a real goddamn word.
>>16550566There was a paper that showed R1a at high levels later on. I2 common throughout.
>>16550992Serednii Stih was Ukrainian, orc.
"Migrations to the west (3) and south (4) ca. 4400-4000 BCE split PIA into the PIE languages and PA languages."CLV= PIE
>>16551011he's in the border areas, moron.if you want more samples, look here. https://www.nature.com/articles/nature25778https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/476135v2
>>16551038Correct.Captcha: MONYS
>>16551038churka no, the Caucasus was raped by the northerners.
>>16551042Retard. It's not from the border area, orc. It's 1000 km away in Mordor(ussia).
>>16551053Cretin.
>>16551067>Ukraine, where it was first locatedOrc.
>>16551072stupid churkas, there is only one example of the "Alexandria MBA", which is an early R1a M417, and it is much later than the Sredny.it is not one archaeological horizon.
this is not Sredny Stog idiot, this is not Sredny.he is younger than the Yamnaya, he is close to the samples of the Catacomb culture.
>>16550976These are from Lipetsk, 4th millennium BC.>>16550967This is the only reference to an early SS sample I know of, and it just has extremely high UKR_N.The actual preprint offered more than are shown in Anthony's old PCA, and the oldest SS samples in it are part of the SSmed cluster, which are cluster midway between Yamnaya and UKR_N.None of them have very high EEF/ANF admixture.
>>16551125For reference here is the newer, preprint PCA
>>16551125you have G25 samples for all this crap?
>>16551158No, you'll have to actually read the preprint and supplement.https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.04.17.589597v1.supplementary-material
>>16551167damn, anyway I have several samples from before and after the Yamnaya invasion of the Ukrainian Neolithic.
>>16550492I2a-l621, not a single one of it was found west of the Vistula and carpathanians before 500 ad. They weren’t steppe though; they lived in Belarus for most of the last 10,000 years when it formed. I2 definitely came from the steppe originally around 30-40,000 years ago.
>>16551227>30-40,000 years ago.There's a mistake here I guess.
>>16550594it still seems to imply that Yamnaya (similar) families, blessed with abundant abductable daughters, penetrated the marriage networks of the later Corded Ware to set this genetic transformation in motion. Unfortunately, archaeological evidence does not indicate that the Yamnaya culture penetrated subsequent Cord Ware territory beyond what would appear to be clearly defined and more recent contact zones where a later variant of the Cord Ware, such as the Middle Dnieper culture, entered. in direct contact. contact with Yamnaya culture (Telegin 2005). This led to the search for an earlier vector that may have stimulated the emergence of corded products, which were also genetically "Yamnaya-like
>>16550481There's I2 in Britain and Ireland, some came from Celts and Germanic migrations into the isles but some is of WHG origin. I have personally chatted with an I2 lad of this heritage. I don't know enough about Continental I2, but I was of the impression it was a mixed bag. Even some of the G2a in Europe has a Steppe origin rather than EEF, rare as it is. I2 would arguably have a better chance at being either considering they had a neolithic resurgence in Western Europe and a fairly strong presence in some Steppe groups.
>>16551378Dude? Is WHG Not steppe
>>16550446EEF? Nah, I'd say it was more a Hybrid WHG/EEF culture that swinged more WHG dominant.
>>16550446European G2a backstory leaked.>InB4 Source?Divine revelation.>>16551378>Even some of the G2a in Europe has a Steppe origin rather than EEFMeds.
>>16551378The I2 in the Britain is entirely from the native WHG farmers. Continental I2 is steppe derived.
>>16550531Pure eef weren't suhuman, south farmers were more civilized and rich than north farmers
>>16551556They were superior if anything. Subhuman WHG admixture literally made northern EEF retarded.
>>16551565Truth is farmers couldn't take on noble WHGs without significant numerical advantages. That's why they couldn't deal with them so far north on the frontiers and why WHG became elites in their cultures, several times. We should all be grateful the Steppe chads wiped the farmer dalits out.
>>16551606Farmers wiped out most of the retarded WHG subhumans. Farming didn't work in the north, so Steppe chads wiped out the last WHG.
>>16550789theyre half catacomb half srubnaya
>>16551612>Farming didn't work in the northIt did akshually, and it was much warmer then. Prime real estate. Farmers couldn't hold onto it. Couldn't even hold onto their women lol
>>16551565True. Pure ANF colonized far away Med islands including Cyprus (where the first domesticated cat and the first well were discovered) and Lampedusa and brought all sorts of animals there including cattle and even deer; they made the first gold objects in the Balkans, the first wheel and acle in Slovenia (Lubjana marshes), set up the first maritme networks for goods like obsidian and sicilian amber (which reached even Iberia) in the Mediterranean, crossed over from Sicily to Tunisia where they brough agriculture and Cardium pottery, made the first known boats with tenone and mortise joints (La Marmotta) and likely sails, Catalhoyuk with some of the first known mirrors (made of Obsidian), some of the earliest water canals discovered in West Anatolia recently, first two storeyed stonehouses (Bulgaria early Neolithic), earliest tin bronze (Neolithic Serbia), some of the first depiction of chairs (Karanovo culture Bulgaria), first looms in Europe, some of the oldest known copper axes that they mass produced in the BalkansOnly a seething tard would say that muh steppecavemen or even worse, whgroids, were smarter
>>16551618Farming didn't work or else WHG women would've flocked to farmer men like they did in Southern Europe. Instead farming failed so most EEF stayed in Southern Europe only exiling criminals and slaves to the north. Then Steppe chads came and raped WHG.
>>16551626Funny that you mention it, the last hunter-gatherer in Scandinavia found was from 2350 BC. That means he got to watch the last farmoid left ACK'd and his wives and daughters taken, he probably even got one as a plaything. That's why all our Y-DNA comes from WSH and hunters, while most of the mtDNA comes from farmer women anon. Just so you know, not sure if anyone explained this to you before. Birds and the bees, etc.
>>16551639Yes the last hunter-gatherers were in northern Europe the first place the Steppe chads invaded. The Steppe men were genociding WHG and raping their women.
>>16550531https://youtube.com/watch?v=XU7gnMSzf_c>>16550579>disgusting, pointlessly murderous and gay culture chokes on its own filth and disease>gets replaced by tall, milk drinking herders with actual human languages and a respectable lifestyleI see no problem here either way. Conquest by default or by war is fine. All is well in the world now that the farmer is gone. I only wish similar events would have happened in other parts of the world in prehistoric times at this level of total replacement.
>>16551642No no anon you're confused. CWC lived side by side with hunters for many centuries and integrated their material culture to form Battle Axe chads. But they did not suffer the farmoid male. Only his most beautiful women would be tolerated (farmoids had terrible taste).
>>16551659You're confused since the Yamnaya totally slaughtered all the hunter gatherers of northern Europe. WHG went extinct because of how bad Yamnaya raped them.
>>16551625It's mind boggling that all of these accomplishments happened in Anatolia, Balkans, and Italy which were the places with the least WHGroid admixture. There was so much in the rest of Europe but it produced nothing. Why were WHGroids so subhuman and retarded?
>>16551666>Yamnaya totally slaughtered all the hunter gatherers of Northern EuropeYamgaya would never. They never even set foot here. It was all Cordeds. >WHG went extinctAll hunter-gatherers either introgress or die out. It's the way of the world. You can do that nobly like WHG or you can go the way of the farmer, crushed under the wheels of a greater people for eternity. Sad, many such cases.
>>16551679Yamnaya totally slaughtered all the hunter gatherers of Northern Europe. Corded was descended from Yamnaya. Today WHG and SHG are extinct, but EEF live on.
>>16551688>Yamnaya totally slaughtered all the hunter gatherers of Northern EuropeAnachronistic headcanon, dalit cope, typically though really. >but EEF live onNot true. All EEF are dead. And most importantly, we should be grateful they're gone anon.
>>16551696>Anachronistic headcanonSeething. Yamnaya slaughtered the WHG and made them go extinct. WHG are extinct and EEF are alive.>All EEF are deadSardinians are still around and the same as many EEF populations.
>>16551606>>16551618Lol.....Rome, greece etc
>>16551639Werent Saami mostly hunters? Reindeer herding was only a percentage of the population.
>>16551728Saami came afterwards and raped the hunter-gatherers. They were originally Turkics until they fucked too much northern European hunter-gatherer pussy. Many such cases.
>>16551734Retard
>>16551737Seethe and cope.
This is the richest Yamnaya tomb of all time.>Figure 13.9 Utyevka Cemetery I, kurgan 1, grave 1, between 2800 and 2500 BC, central Volga region. The richest burial and among the largest kurgans (more than 100 m in diameter) of the Yamnaya-Poltavka horizon. Gold rings with grained decoration, ceramic vase, copper axe, copper dagger, copper pin with iron head, copper flat axe, copper awl and stone pestle. After Vasiliev 1980.It's ridiculous that people compare them to real civilizations. The Egyptians were already building pyramids when this man was buried.
>>16551741Saami arent even 30% nganassan
>>16551742Wood is a natural insulator due to air pockets within its cellular structure, which means that it is 15 times better than masonry
>>16551744They are 20% so they fucked too much northern European hunter-gatherer pussy. Many such cases.
>>16551742>richest Indo EuropeanZ2103 btw.
>>16551746Mostly Yamnaya thoughThey just have Nganassan instead of EEF
>>16551745>>16551745not necessarily.it depends more on the climate and its availability, since we are talking about yamnaya, its main area (Ukrainian steppe) was not formed by taigas or European dark forests, this would not really be useful. Compare with their neighbors to the south, Maykop where they had more elaborate artifacts and pieces, even with their lower availability of resources than Yamnaya. Kurgans, on the other hand, are essentially the same thing as some Mississippi tombs
>>16551753No they have too much northern European hunter-gatherer pussy. Too much WHG and SHG pussy.
>>16551754How did Maykop have less resources, Yamnaya lived on literal steppe
>>16551706you have been destroyed and now you resort to crying and coping but no one cares because we have exposed the reality on this matter, yamnaya were mongrels formed in the western steppe, dependent since the beginning of the ukrine N dna; Eastern steppe progress and waste continued to exist in the Caucasus until the Early Bronze Age, when the CWC expanded eastward and created the yamnay by violating further progress.Nikitin mentioned that Sredni Stog (and by extension, Suvorovo, Usatovo, Yamnaya) has EEF, in contradiction to the suggestion that it is actually Levantine.
>>16551769You were destroyed and had to change the subject. Yamnaya slaughtered the WHG and made them go extinct. WHG are extinct and EEF are alive.
>>16551775??I m not the guy above.You lost, and remember: youe yamnaya gods WERE NOT IE.
>>16551778You are which is why you're crying. I only care about EEF. PIE Yamnaya cavemen don't matter to me.
Another schizo thread where retards ramble about a WHG-rich Sredny Stog which contributed 0% to any IE populationIt looks like Orlovka IE sweeped from the Volga Delta or between Volga Delta and the lower Don
>>16551780Based.
IMO PIE is an ANE language. It has the look and feel of Amerindian languages. It's possible that EHG spoke languages with a WHG substrate which didn't make it to the Russia/Kazakhstan border area.
>>16551783Orlovka was not IE, dumb
Yamnaya were not IE
>>16551799Alternative are peripheral quasi-Sredny Stog from the lower Don with zero ancestry from the west and some ancestry from the east even before they became buried in Orlovka DNA leading to the Yamnaya/Corded Ware genotype.Every way you look at it the result is the same.
>>16551803I m not he.Who's :Orlovka"
Bererzhnovka and Progress lived on the opposite ends of Orlovka cultural horizon and had identical genotypes so Progress=Orlovka is canon now. This genotype was not restricted to the Caucasian foothills as previously thought but had a robust base from which it spread north for example Khvalynsk and west to the Don.Remontnoye were a half-Neolithic Caucasian-Anatolia_N intrusion which amounted to nothing in the end but they too were half Orlovka. The Neolithic Caucasian-Anatolia_Ns got cucked btw so even these guys could have in theory just imported wives for some reason.Orlovka still makes up 60-70% in Yamnaya and original Corded Ware while Sredny Stog Ukraine is at 0%. The second biggest component is something EHG-ish but it can not precisely be said it's from the Don since there is nothing specific which binds it to the local quasi-Sredny Stog with zero Sredny Stog admixture. Use your brains people.
>>16551828>This genotype was not restricted to the Caucasian foothills as previously thoughtOnly complete retards thought that these last six years. It's obvious to anyone with a brain they dominated the steppe and Yamnaya were descendants of them.
>>16551828calm down dude. I discovered what yamnaya were today. I do not know anything. I don't know if I understand your explanation, but I'll do more research later, thank you
>>16551828Btw the paper fucked up the model for Yamnaya. They have no Neolithic Caucasian admixture we've known that for years now. Since they brute-forced it in, the Iran_N in it causes a counter-reaction in WHG-rich pseudo-admixture from the Dnieper. It's a really tragic fuck-up since it will keep alive several incorrect theories.
>>16551845I'm going to explain to you;Yamnaya was a group of people whose ancestors exchanged wives until they formed a genetic group. They looked like the rock actor and used flint stone weapons. and that's basically it. They didn't have interesting clothes, they didn't practice music, they didn't have horses or agriculture. research early european farmers, they were incredible people who created europe, roman greeks were early european farmers.
>>16551850Ok? Thank so much, again:D>>16551854Hum nice.I'll research them later. What are those graphics with different colors and names that you can see here all the time? Does it have anything to do with DNA? How do you guys know that?
>>16551838Yes. The real PIE.
>>16551865It is genetic calculators. they basically show which people X have Y amount of ancestry and which people are close to another.but note that sometimes, distances like 0.5 are considerably a bit far and cannot be considered direct descent, as the barbarians north of the alps do. 0.1,2 and even 3, it's good.
>>16551850It's the opposite, you moron. People are complaining they didn't use Iran_N to model Yamnaya which caused a depression in EHG levels and spiked the Neolithic Caucasian. Try to understand what you're reading next time.
>>16551889Yes, the IE is actually iranian história
>>16551889>People are complaining they didn't use Iran_N to model YamnayaWhich people? Kurds? Pakistanis? Indians?Their Southern Arc hypothesis was always about Neolithic Armenian ancestry which does include some Iran_N and a tiny bit of CHG even on an Anatolian base. While it is interesting that this kind of ancestry was present relatively far up north, there has been no evidence presented it ties into Yamnaya. Even their shitty model assigns some of it to the WHG of Sredny Stog which makes no sense. In their model a combination of EEF and CHG causes a confusion with their Armenia_N component.
>>16551901*to the most WHG of Sredny Stog
>>16551900Retarded.>>16551901>Which peopleNo retard, wignats who believe in the steppe hypothesis. They didn't like IE coming from the Caucasus and they didn't like that Iran_N wasn't used in the calculations.
>>16551914https://youtu.be/zKOLp-UgaO8?si=xP9qW0JvMhla1goe
>>16551914Okay sure maybe it would have been ideal if they stuck to pure components like Iran_N, CHG, ANF etc instead of weird hybrids from Armenia which cluster near Ashkenazi Jews.However none of it changes the fact that Iran_N was completely absent from almost all the samples from the steppe. The results should have therefore been mostly the same if it was or wasn't used if the study was performed correctly.
>>16551914Yeah Wignats feel a strong connection to Iran_n zagrosians true
>>16551922Armenian Neolithic is CHG + EEF. Wignats are unhappy that Iran_N wasn't used in the calculations they think it would increase EHG levels. You are retarded.
FACT: IE is deeply european and connected to whites. Brown people don't like this so they try attribute it to southerlings like the weird aknashen natufians>t-they have no natuf-NATUFIANS. Sub-saharans. Weird semites and relatives with no connection to our very sibero-european language.
>>16551933what is the problem? do Iranians want to be yamnaya? Well, let's be friends with others. let them be yamnaya.
>>16551941Wignats are seething online that the Caucasus is the homeland of IE.
>>16551934It is always iranians and indians doing it too. They can't stand the fact they speak the language of their nordic elite upper class they don't even remotely resemble.
>>16551934>IE is deeply europeanHow?
>>16551943Iranjeets are the only ones believing irrelevant west asians spawned our nordic language.
>>16551933Armenian Neolithic has more Iran_N than CHG.You know what I really don't care what these imaginary wignats inside your head think about it. Did you know that in formal stats(F3) CHG is closer to Germans than Iranians because of the extremely deep drift which separates it from Iran_N and Iran_HG? Well now you know. CHG is a European component and only homosexual activists would promote for components typical for Pashtun.
>>16551945Are you retarded? Its origin is in Europe by european HGs.
>>16551949Wait??? CHG european??? Really?
>>16551949He's a worthless iranjeet lmao. He's eternally buckbroken by the fact that his people are a natural servant caste.
>>16551949Wrong again Armenian Neolithic has more CHG than Iran_N. Wignats like you are seething in this thread.
>>16551955CHG stems from the same haplogroup IJ population in which the gene for blue eyes originated in. It was mixed into some shit from Iran through maternal lineages however even that connection is so remote that there is a very strong distinction between them. CHG is inarguably a White component as it's carriers had European phenotypes regardless if it can be classified as properly European or not.
>>16551952How?
>same haplogroup IJ population in which the gene for blue eyes originated inAbsolute retardation. Aurignacians and Gravettians with the oldest I2 didn't have blue eyes.
The constantly confused sardinian girl typing ??? Variations all last week is cute.
>>16551966What imaginary Gravettians had I2?
>>16551962were they then another type of EHG? I didn't know they were a European component.so those shitty reconstructions about yamnaya orcs are false and retarded.I wonder how much the ancestors of the yamnaya (progress) and themselves had Iran_HG. where do the iran_HG come from?? were very different from the iran_N? the Caucasus region was once European. wow. (almost)
>>16551966Genetic diversity in Europe was high before the LGM and no one would expect Aurignacians with haplogroup C to have blue eyes. Gravettians probably had the gene already but WHG underwent a bottleneck in which all carriers of brown eyes went extinct.
>haplogroups having an affect on eye coloration
>>16551966retarded? the first ChG had rs7495174 alleles, research it for yourself
This thread is full of retards.
>>16551945>>16551967This one:>>16551964
>>16551977Aurignacians ended the diversity long before the LGM by killing off most Europeans. Aurignacians and Gravettians were the pre-LGM population of European. WHG were post-LGM mutant midgets made of poop.
Peer reviewed reconstruction of the original Indo-Anatolian speakers just dropped.
>>16551988What the fuck is this monkey babbling about? Aurignacians were Europeans themselves. And they didn't kill off shit. Vestonice died off on its own.
>>16551999Cope.
>>16551988>WHG were post-LGM mutant midgets made of poop.WHGs were Gods actually, ANF worshipped them as God-Kings.
>>16552003Also, don't talk shit about WHG. Their features were Royal and noble in EEF societies
Lol>CHG european>steppe 100% european>Yamnaya chads pure>insults about iran and dravidians>we wuz vedics nordicz
Euro-HG's truly moghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usP1VFtZvQM
>>16552012Oh hey Ranjeet
>>16552016Ok nordlarp
>>16552005The megalithic inbreds were majority ANF like everyone else in the society.
>>16552024Yes? What is your point little man?
>>16552012das rite indo wuz yuropeein n shieeeeet mofugga
>>16552027I2 worshipped ANF as God-Kings.
>>16552020Sardinian, enough.>>16552028Indo-Europeans are from Europe. This is agreed upon by the study too.
>>16552032It's literally the opposite, you mongoloid, the ANF suffered cultural assimilation by the natives, to the point of having their language replaced and their women assimilated
>>16552034Indo-Europeans are from Armenia and Turkey. This is agreed upon by the study too.
>>16552039I meant lineage, sorry.
>>16552039Why did I2 worship their ANF rulers as God-Kings? I2 made huge rocks to honor their ANF Gods.
>>16552032It's funny how ANF selected for their Grandpa's royal features to the point of inbreeding to achieve it. ANF were mentally ill in britain.>>16552040Not even. Study just throws a ball to the armenian iranjeet side as a sort of participation award. Truth is, the CLV "cline" is by en large unneeded. Progress or Lower Volga CLV is all that's needed.
>>16552045What even is this Sardinian? Go back to bed already. You make little sense.
>>16552040Yes. Armenia, Iran, Georgia, and Turkey the Indo-European homeland as the study said.
>>16552034Now you accuse me of being part of your imaginary mongrel war? Friend, read carefully what I'm going to say, I don't care about your precious "Aryans" (only North India and Iran have such rights) or the shitty farmers. Who cares about a continent as useless as yours that the Greeks themselves said their knowledge was Egyptian?
>>16552055She is mentally ill.
>>16552055Loool cope. Europe, a worthless continent? Then the rest of the fucking world doesn't even exist. Egyptians had even European elites with R1b too looool
>>16552058Who "she"?
Those were contaminated samples. They were actually E1b1b.
>>16552070Face it Joseph, europeans are pretty fucking cool and you beig all contrarian is mere foolishness and a clear attempt at appealing to the underlings view of history.
>>16552066Why are you like this?>European CHG>Persians wuz white>le vedic ancestry>Egyptians were ehiteYou know that Egyptian r1b is literally Mesolithic, don't you know? the Egyptians were MENA with fat noses who created something that Europe (named after a Phoenician princess) stole
>>16552072E1b1b created the world. Farming, civilization, Nazism, nuclear weapons, etc. Your ancestors did nothing but live in some eastern european hovel as a peasant.
>>16552074Egyptian R1b is bell beaker actually and I don't care about persians, only find it funmy how they larp as Sintashtans despite being not related at all. Also, I'm not the CHG guy either.
>>16552080Joseph, anything your ancestors "invented" was improved by Europeans.
>>16552082no. we have Mesolithic r1b in several places, some in Africa. Get out of 1990, you asshole, and we won't turn into syntashta. we have been the same since the final bronze age
>>16552082It's contamination. It's not Bell Beaker it's Italian.
>>16552085Oh I know you're not sintashta all right... Also why you larping as an iranian, Sardinian girl?
>>16552087Frisian, stop hating on italians already.
>>16552088wait for you to read how your disgusting continent lost wars with groups you consider "abnormal", the crusades, the Ottoman rape and so on. What are you talking about,you animal? Who cares which farmer killed which 5'7" idiot who was riding a horse.Calling me a woman is not an insult at 33 years old, it's more barbaric creativity from the gray and disgusting continent
Pic rel is how the average CHADTALIAN ROMAN BVLL looks like.
>>16552096Once again, calling Europe barbaric and shit just makes everything else seem even worse. You're just some scorned monkey man. Maybe you're actually iranian. What did we even do to that shithole? Aren't you more worried about your islamic shithole republic?
>>16552103Why do you use an insult with every word? You have dementia my dear hans. Let's play a game, show me any civilized structure in your country that has pre-Roman contact. challenge is given. What a Westerner knows about international politics is a mystery
>>16552112They had some poo huts and caves in the low countries.
>>16552115Lol
>>16552112>>16552115>>16552122Oldest city ever in Ukraine. And this is despite climate challenges we face.
>>16552126Oldest city is from the Natufians.
>>16552126are you Ukrainian? Typila Ugly wasn't really a city for major reasons; it did not have the main premises of a real city, a settlement and the population is calculated based on the number of structures, which was lower than that of Mesopotamia. what is the next? any structure?
>>16552126Why are you trying to wewuz ANF settlements, chimp? You hate us. You don't get to steal our stuff.
>>16552126I think I know this barbaric mule, from the insults and the same type of arguments, I assume he's an idiot Swede who posts on /pol/ about Aryans with ugly paint collages.
>>16552137Xir claims to be dutch here.
>>16552131Natufians were hunter gatherers.>>16552134>usAlso, kek at the italian siding with literal pajeets.>>16552137Fool>>16552143>you're a trans XDDone.
Natufians built the first settlement.
>>16552155A shart favela.
>>16552112
You shall respect the Nordic Cordeds. Simple as.
TL;DR this thread>Iranians and Jeets are BTFO by new genetic evidence which permanently refutes the South Caucasus homeland hypothesis>WHG were irrelevant as usual even in their 1/3 form by the Dnieper>Farmers are still cucks
>>16552165Basically.
South Caucasus homeland was confirmed by the study.
>>16552171No Anatolia_N was found in PIE that didn't come from women in southwestern UkraineZero Iran_N was found in PIE
>>16552174Nope. The Caucasus component cannot be modeled as CHG alone.
>>16552180Yeah I get it, this is the fantasy of all the people from Morocco to Bangladesh but it nothing connecting it to the real world. IF Remontnoye contributed a tiny percentage to PIE through their women getting raided before they were erased from this earth it would still not contribute much Iran_N since they were Giga-Anatolian anyway. It's a really weak scenario for the transmission of PIE and still doesn't involve meaningful quantities of Iran_N beyond maybe 1%.
>>16552190Retard, I am talking about the Caucasus component in Yamnaya.
>>16552196Try to pay attention to the discussion you mental midget. The old Progress-Bererzhnovka component from the Southern Russian Steppe has CHG admixture alone and it's ancient. Nothing to do with Iran. That matter is settled and undisputed.Remontnoye is a northern expansion of Neolithic Caucasus ancestry mixed 50% with local Progress-Berezhovka admixture, chiefly paternal which co-existed with their pure cousins in an adjacent space.All scenarios about Caucasus Neolithic ancestry in Yamnaya hinge on Remontnoye and a tiny percentage of it at that. Definitely not enough to elevate Iran_N since Iran_N was already at a low ratio against Anatolian and CHG in Remontnoye.It's pretty simple but your agenda makes it unlikely for you to understand it.
>>16552205Caucasus Neolithic is CHG + EEF, retard. The Iran_N component is too big to have been brought by the Caucasus Neolithic with little Iran_N.
>>16552229Target: Armenia_Aknashen_NDistance: 4.0109% / 0.0401089040.2 Turkey_N33.0 Iran_Wezmeh_N.SG26.8 Georgia_Kotias.SGTarget: Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic:PG2004Distance: 5.2637% / 0.0526372642.8 Russia_Sidelkino_HG.SG34.8 Georgia_Kotias.SG15.6 Russia_AfontovaGora36.8 Iran_Wezmeh_N.SGMind you, that's a sample from the North Caucasus foothills which did not contribute to Yamnaya or probably anyone.
>>16552229Also Anatolian Neolithic are not EEF but ANF.
>>16552250This is what Caucasus Neolithic looks like.Target: Armenia_MasisBlur_NDistance: 4.1540% / 0.0415402431.2 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG29.8 Israel_PPNB26.8 Georgia_Kotias.SG12.2 Iran_GanjDareh_NThe Iran_N component is minor and can't explain the Iran_N ancestry in steppe populations. There's a bigger Anatolian and Levantine component in them which are missing in the earliest steppe samples. These guys cannot be a source of Iran_N in them.
>>16552266MasisBlur is not the Caucasus component they relate to Remontnoye. They designate a different color for it entirely.See >>16551828Also Yamnaya is best modeled with zero Iran_NTarget: Russia_Samara_EBA_YamnayaDistance: 5.8130% / 0.0581297155.0 Russia_Karelia_HG36.6 Georgia_Kotias.SG8.4 Ukraine_VertebaCave_MLTrypillia0.0 Iran_Wezmeh_N.SG0.0 Russia_AfontovaGora30.0 Russia_Vologda_Veretye_Mesolithic.SG0.0 Turkey_N0.0 Ukraine_Eneolithic_Trypillia0.0 Ukraine_Mesolithic
>>16552250It's easy to make a better model than the trash you're shitting out.Target: Russia_Steppe_EneolithicDistance: 4.9057% / 0.0490570650.8 Russia_Sidelkino_HG.SG35.2 Georgia_Kotias.SG14.0 Iran_GanjDareh_N
>>16552271This average includes Vonyuchka which has elevated Caucasus Neolithic admixture compared to the Progress samples. Refusing to use AfontovaGora is sketchy considering the origin of this genotype near the Volga Delta where ANE-rich ancestry persisted. Sidelkino is WHG-shifted by EHG standards and should be disqualified for that.
>>16552271Iran_N is still detectable in Yamnaya this model is better than >>16552269 btw.Target: Russia_Samara_EBA_YamnayaDistance: 5.7665% / 0.0576653359.0 Russia_Samara_HG30.6 Georgia_Kotias.SG8.2 Ukraine_Eneolithic_Trypillia2.2 Iran_GanjDareh_N
>>16552275>This average includes Vonyuchka which has elevated Caucasus Neolithic admixture compared to the Progress samplesVonyuchka doesn't have any Caucasus Neolithic admixture, retard. It has no Anatolian and Levantine ancestry.>Refusing to use AfontovaGora is sketchy Far too removed in time to be sensible.>Sidelkino is WHG-shiftedVery slightly.
>>16552283>Vonyuchka doesn't have any Caucasus Neolithic admixture, retard. It has no Anatolian and Levantine ancestry.Whatever it is that it has, it stands as an outlier and doesn't pick up ANE as much like the Progress do. It should be forgotten about as irrelevant.>Far too removed in time to be sensible.But should be used regardless since there's no alternative if we want an accurately model this mix from the border of Kazakhstan. WSHG usually have too much East Asian admixture.>Very slightly.Too muchAnyway, I'm only getting 1.2% Iran_N in Yamnaya with Wezmeh. This could come from a 6% Remontnoye contribution or it could be total noise. It's hard to say either way but anyone who thinks a 6% component that comes from women getting fucked would be source of PIE is a certified retard.
>>16552297>Whatever it is that it hasWhich is not Caucasus Neolithic you retard.>But should be used regardlessNo it should not be used that makes no sense.>Too muchIt's a 1% difference you spastic retard.
>>16552302>No it should not be used that makes no senseAnd what if Pre-PIE stems from an almost pure AfontovaGora3-like people before they mixed with EHG and CHG at the Volga Delta?Contrary to what people think EHG aren't that important and have no cosmic significance in any of this. There is no reasonable assumption that they are even native to southern Russian Steppe where Swiderian influence from Poland was absent unlike the Russian forest zone.It's true that Yamnaya can be modeled with EHG alone but it's because they have ancestry which is both more eastern and more western than EHG so it averages out as that.>It's a 1% difference you spastic retard.Yeah and if taken as fact it is the difference between 12% Remontnoye and 6% which is a big difference since the former would cut down Trypillian by a lot more. None the less I think time will tell us that the true number is zero.
>>16552314>And what if Pre-PIE stems from an almost pure AfontovaGora3-like people before they mixed with EHG and CHG at the Volga Delta?At best the closest thing to this would be WSHG. There are no samples of anything but WSHG around and to the east of the Volga.>There is no reasonable assumption that they are even native to southern Russian Steppe where Swiderian influence from Poland was absent unlike the Russian forest zone.So where are they supposed to be from? The steppe clearly had them around.>It's true that Yamnaya can be modeled with EHG alone but it's because they have ancestry which is both more eastern and more western than EHG so it averages out as that.If that was true it would be possible to detect this ancestry. It's not true.
>>16552325>At best the closest thing to this would be WSHG. There are no samples of anything but WSHG around and to the east of the Volga.WSHG genotype originated further east and at a later point. The ANE I'm talking about are the ANE component in EHG but without Swiderian admixture which seemingly made it quite far east in the Boreal zone which of course was much more like Central and Eastern Europe but colder, entirely different to the Steppe. It's not so complex or radical.>So where are they supposed to be from? The steppe clearly had them around.There's no samples.>If that was true it would be possible to detect this ancestry. It's not true.And it is possible, simply model Yamnaya with Bererzhnovka when it's available(assuming it works better than Progress) and eastern Sredny Stog with a tiny excess of WHG which however is still enough to convert the ANE in Bererzhnovka into EHG.
Yamnaya appeared as a result of the rape of CHG females by EHG rich Sredny Stog mens.no amount of brown MENA fantasy will change that.
>>16552348This admixture at the Volga Delta happened long before there was such a meaningless Eneolithic cultural complex as Sredny Stog. We're talking 13000-6000 BC mainly.
>>16552360this admixture is really ancient and has no relation to the Caucasian Neolithic.but apparently it was captured in the North Caucasus region.
>>16552343>WSHG genotype originated further eastImmediate border of the Volga.>The ANE I'm talking about are the ANE component in EHGWSHG has far more of it than EHG.>without Swiderian admixture This is speculation, but WSHG is what you're looking for and actually exists.>It's not so complex or radical.Nothing supports that.>There's no samples.I don't see why they wouldn't be EHG and WSHG that lived around the area. There's nothing indicating a totally different population.>simply model Yamnaya with Bererzhnovka when it's availableIt wouldn't work.
>>16552385WSHG is a mix of East Asian ancestry and ANE which happened way out east somewhere near Lake Baikal. It entered Europe with Steppe Maykop around 4000 BC.You're being far too confident here despite not understanding the genetics involved and I suspect you have some gay motif about Pashtun pedophilia being normal and traditional.
>>16552408>WSHG is a mix of East Asian ancestry and ANENo brainlet, WSHG is more ANE than EHG.>which happened way out east somewhere near Lake Baikal.You are retarded.>It entered Europe with Steppe Maykop around 4000 BC.Steppe Maykop didn't exist in 4000 BC you retard.>You're being far too confident hereBecause I know more than you. I'll take it as a concession since you couldn't figure out how to respond to any of the other points.
this is Progress eneolithic doing this shit with my GEDmatch?
>>16552416>No brainlet, WSHG is more ANE than EHG.Yes by a small amount and so what?>You are retarded.You think full East Asians were present in Western Siberia that early? okay dude>Steppe Maykop didn't exist in 4000 BC you retard.The Steppe Maykop samples are from a few centuries after that. They are a mix of local Progress-Bererzhnovka and WSHG and chances are this means the WSHG had to enter before that point. Case closed.>Because I know more than you. I'll take it as a concession since you couldn't figure out how to respond to any of the other pointsYou can't even figure out the basics.Face the facts, Iran_N is not even a red herring.
>>16552416WSHG had an East Asian admixture that the Yamnaya lacked.
>>16552428>Yes by a small amount and so what?It's a big amount. WSHG has a lot more.>You think full East Asians were present in Western Siberia that early? No, they admixed a little bit early on.>The Steppe Maykop samples are from a few centuries after that.No, almost 1000 years after that. You don't know the basics about this subject.>chances are this means the WSHG had to enter before that point.Based on nothing since you are retarded. Case closed.
>>16550486>near pure WHG existed at least around 3000 BCDo you have any more info on this anon?So far as I know the last known pure WHG found in northern Norway on an island (Senja?) and was alive somewhere around 2400 BC. Do you know anything about that individual?
how does one get into haplogroups? any books you guys recommend
>>165524081. CHG are not close to Europeans.2. they are closer to the HG Iranians than any European, so he is not necessarily wrong.3. you don't know what Iran HG and Zagrosian farmers are
>>16550478How did very late Yamnaya have I2 then?
>>16552163>>16552165Always has been true. Always will be.
>>16552080>NazismYour only redeeming quality.
>>16551988>>16552003What kind of autism must one have to be a... Aurignacian shill? All evidence points to them getting drastically overturned by Vestonice and then the two of them emerging in small numbers because somehow all those who went into Iberia survived. It was the LGM that killed off almost both groups, Vestonice just had better fertility and adaptability than them for a few 10k years there beforehand. But they both contributed to Azilian along with WHG.
>>16552080E1bucks didnt create NatSoc.I1 and R1b created NatSoc with the Thulean society and the German labor party.Ironically the offshoots of the Thule Society and Labor party still exist while the E1b element of National Socialism is the hated portion.
what does GAC stand for? I can't remember all the autism
>>16553182Globular Amphora
>>16551742>UGA BUGA, BUT WHAT ABOUT MY GOD-KINGS???>WHY HAVEN'T THESE BARBARIANS KEKED THEMSELVES AND FUNNELED EVERYTHING VALUABLE INTO A PIT WITH SOME DEAD GUY???
>>16553193Isn't that just Funnel Beaker potatoes swimming in a CWC soup?
>>16551742>civilizationThey were a powerful culture full of Vrill, not urban. That's actually why I love them more than gaygypt and their dumb block monuments.
>>16553234Yes, yes I believe you're right.
how does no one connect kurgans, catalhoyuk underground homes and modern jew tunnels, west asians have thoroughly been running circles around euros kek
>ANE rapes CHG women before migrating across Eurasia>Muh 'Southern Arc'>ANE and WHG join forces to subjugate EEF in Southern Europe>CHG mops up the remnants in the Middle East>Africanized Semitic women act as if their men were always drawn from these lineagesLife as a medcel is the epitome of mindbroken
>>16555325You literally visualize all of human history as a contest between genetic clusters from the Mesolithic.
>>16550971He's right, Slavic I2 (Din) has a basal finding in Meso. Sweden (Motala), and Neo. Norway (Steigen)
>>16555514What kind of thread did you think this was before you clicked on it exactly?
>>16555577I don't know, I wasn't thinking. And next I'm looking, thread is garbage.I guess I'm just a stupid Anon.
>>16555561No it doesn't, retard.
>>16555847No worries anon, E is still around, they were driven back to north Africa mostly and replaced sub-Saharan men's lines too.
