Call me a Gnostic or not, but the more you look into all of the horrible and senseless misery and cruelty of this world, all of the agonies and tortures, the mutilation and sadism, with all of the slaughter and rape, children being abused and soldiers torn apart by drones, you will find the figure of Jesus Christ. And he is not the cause for all of this horror, it is the direct opposite.
>>16555071>He is not the cause of all horrorWhy do so many people commit atrocities in his name then?
>>16555072There are much stronger arguments you can bring up.
>>16555073What I described would fully include the horrors of the Thirty Years' War and all of that shit.
>>16555071Are you faggots coming from a discord or something? I'm so tired or reading the same rehashed trash over and over again.
>>16555093Nope although I guess other people use Discord. I posted about religion because I see people already posting about it all the time.
>>16555071>And he is not the cause for all of this horror, it is the direct opposite.The fact you had to add this is telling
>>16555071There's no hard evidence Jesus was a real person.
>>16555114>There's no hard evidence Jesus was a real person.Oh fuck you, all historians accept he was a real person. You are pretty much a history-denier at this point. This is why I know atheism is false, because you even deny the scholars who you tell us know everything. You are so invested in attacking Christ, you have to LIE and you know you're lying.
>>16555076Not too but I'll argue for him.There are no wars that are done purely for religion, it's just a justification. The thirty years war was about politics. The power of the Catholic church and the hapsburgs vs bourbons. There is a practical reason for every holy war. Just because they are doing something in Jesus's name doesn't mean Jesus would necessarily approve.>>16555093Gnosticism is classic 4chan. It's even on know your meme. It's Christians who are invading and shitting up the board with their incoherent religion.
>>16555121>Gnosticism is classic 4chan. It's even on know your meme. It's Christians who are invading and shitting up the board with their incoherent religion.Gnosticism was literally not talked about on here before Covid. Stop lying.
>>16555106Yes because this tends to be a very widespread view among other Christians.
>>16555121Well there's a mixture between political incentives and perverse/evil religious beliefs. For instance, the latter is shown in Early Modern Europe with all of these stake burnings, destruction of churches, people literally eating the mummified remains of the dead (look at the French Wars of Religion), etc.
>>16555120>fuck you, all historians accept he was a real person. You are pretty much a history-denier at this point. This is why I know atheism is false, because you even deny the scholars who you tell us know everything. You are so invested in attacking Christ, you have to LIE and you know you're lying.Your position is completly fallacious. You are a meme at this point, christcope faggot
>>16555142Not him but all serious historians understand Jesus of Nazareth to be a real person, even if they don't necessarily agree with his supernatural characteristics or view him as a failed apocalyptic preacher.
>>16555149>all serious historiansLol, learn what the word fallacious means. Continue coping and jerking off to bart ehrman or whatever
>>16555155This is not very convincing and you are arguing in bad faith.
>>16555157Project. Many jewish insurrectionists existed. None of them were magic wizards named Jesus and it's obvious to anyone arguing in good faith
>>16555149Yeshua was likely real. Rural teachers and mystics with a small following were a dime a dozen in Jerusalem at the time. His movement would've faded back into Judaism if it wasn't for Paul's innovation to focus so heavily on gentiles.
>>16555142>Your position is completly fallacious.My position is academic consensus, history-denier.
>>16555155>Lol, learn what the word fallacious means. Continue coping and jerking off to bart ehrman or whateverHow about you read a history book you anti-intellectual swin instead of regurgitating this plebbit fedora conspiracy theory that Jesus was made up?
>>16555149There's a lot of historical skepticism on Jesus' existence actually if you ever bothered leaving your Christian bubble. Jesus is just the Latin rendering of Joshua, which was a very common name in Judea. And its somewhat suspicious that we have no written accounts of him from when he was actually alive, with, Tacitus and Josephus' accounts and the Pauline epistles having been written decades after his supposed death. For such a vital figure, its odd nobody wrote about him when he was actually alive. Also, literary analysis suggests Paul wrote most if not all of the NT, which likely makes him the sole author.
>>16555186There was a peasant preacher in Judaea named Yehoshua or whatever and people didn't write anything down when he was alive... how implausible...
>>16555194Was he a peasant preacher, or was he a religious leader whose crucifixion was highly publicized? Which one is it?
>>16555186>Also, literary analysis suggests Paul wrote most if not all of the NT, which likely makes him the sole author.This is so wrong I'm laughing out loud. Are you suggesting he wrote the gospels too? Are you nuts?
>>16555197>Was he a peasant preacher, or was he a religious leader whose crucifixion was highly publicized? Which one is it?How many people did the Romans crucify a year? Were the all highly publicized by the Romans? lol
>>16555114That applies to a good majority of ancient/medieval figures that weren't kings who stamped coins and were buried in well guarded tombs. We only know Socrates was real because of single spoken line of dialogue from an ancient play and it would be weird to make a quip like that about an entirely fictional character for example.
That's actually basically the problem of evil
>>16555120Do you even know what evidence is put forth for and against the historical existence of Jesus?
>>16555093>Are you faggots coming from a discord or something? I'm so tired or reading the same rehashed trash over and over again.People have been making these same arguments for thousands of years you fruit cake lol.Christianity hasn't changed much in 2000 years so the criticisms of it haven't changed much either.Like, what in the fuck do you expect you illogical abrahamic moron.Also, please don't larp as a Christian on Discord anon. That's stupid too.
>>16555114>There's no hard evidence Jesus was a real person.You have multiple different possibilities.He most likely existed, and the miracles were obviously fake.That doesn't at all legitimize Christianity as a religion.Same argument goes for Muhammad and Abraham.
>>16555450>He most likely existedOn what grounds?
>>16555458>On what grounds?People that hated him acknowledging his existence not long after his death. His life story fitting in with the demographics of the area at the time.Everything makes logical sense.I'm not religious at all but honestly there is more evidence of him existing than many other historical figures that definitely existed.With Jesus it's more the case of many small details that complement each other.
>>16555076hot take but i dont think random mercenary armies raping and pillaging and the leaders who hired them where indulging in anything but their own personal secular interests
>>16555477>People that hated him acknowledging his existence not long after his death.Such as? >His life story fitting in with the demographics of the area at the time.Well yes, Jesus resembles the people who invented him.>I'm not religious at all but honestly there is more evidence of him existing than many other historical figures that definitely existed.The exact same kind of evidence that supports the real existence of John Frum, Tom Navy, and Ned Ludd is the kind of evidence that exists for Jesus. The first indisputable Christian texts are the epistles of Paul, and those come A) after he allegedly died and B) are highly mythic texts that mention nothing about an earthly life of Jesus and in fact refute it's existence.
>>16555486>hot take but i dont think random mercenary armies raping and pillaging and the leaders who hired them where indulging in anything but their own personal secular interestsIt was literally a religious conflict between Catholics and Protestants lol.No different From the Israelites killing all the Midianites in Numbers 31.
>>16555487>Such as?The Jewish tradition surrounding Jesus is the best example.Jesus even quotes the Talmud before it was even written down.>>16555487>Well yes, Jesus resembles the people who invented him.Well no, he doesn't. You've already forgotten that the teachings of Jesus were written down long after his death. So the fact that his description fits in with the demographics of HIS era over a hundred years prior points to him being a historical figure. On the other hand Joseph Smith's claim about native Americans being the descendants of the Israelites is just complete bullshit pulled out of thin air.
>>16555509>The Jewish tradition surrounding Jesus is the best example.Actually the "tradition" of Jesus predates his "birth" by a pretty long time. Jesus just so happens to fit all the mythical beliefs about a coming messiah and "firstborn of creation" that preceded his alleged birth.That should be a clue that he's not a real person.>Jesus even quotes the Talmud before it was even written down. The Talmud is a commentary on the tanakh.> You've already forgotten that the teachings of Jesus were written down long after his death.He never died. So the first (indisputable) texts written about him would be the Pauline Epistles(written before the first Jewish Roman War). Notice how the Epistles don't actually mention all the materials you find in the Gospels? In fact, Paul goes out of his way to say "Jesus didn't die on Earth, no one was there to see him die, he was killed by Satan and his demons" and goes on to somehow omit every single Earthly detail of Jesus' life?Now until you start bringing specific evidence to the table, I'm gonna leave it at that.
>>16555441gnosticism has been a dead heressy since about 400 AD, you cock sucking faggot, the idea that it is suddenly being pushed here is normal is retarded, but then again, discord faggots like yourself should just go back to talking about how you want to chop off your dick
>>16555487imagine being this butt hurt that the existence of a historical figure is widely accepted among historians because him being mythical is a better own to your parents you're eternally mad at like a forever man-child
>>16555521>Actually the "tradition" of Jesus predates his "birth" by a pretty long time. Jesus just so happens to fit all the mythical beliefs about a coming messiah and "firstborn of creation" that preceded his alleged birth.>That should be a clue that he's not a real person.Are you such a dumbass you don't know there are more messiah claimants than Jesus in the historical record? How fucking uneducated are you that even this idea is so novel it must not be real? Where did you learn about history, r/politics?
>>16555071Gnosticism is just Zoroastrianism (le good god vs le bad god) with a Christian coat of paint
>>16555071I mean, it's pretty obvious that God does not directly intervene in this world. Providence can only work for spiritual salvation. Material salvation is postponed to the universal judgement.
>>16555600>you disagree with me, therefore you are mad>>16555608Yes, but Jesus differs from these, insofar as, in the earliest Christian texts, he was affirmed to only appear in visions and revelation. It was LATER that he was historicized by the Gospels, a classic case of Euhemerization. Whereas the other messiah claimants who WERE real people did not begin as mythical beings.You DID study comparative religions of the near and 1st century, right anon?
>>16555207That's completely false. https://youtu.be/8zpV4hcTwYE?si=_TtzU7V763fDnfex&t=3422Timestamped at relevant section.
>>16555071Opium for the people, in other words
>>16555071This is for you: https://youtu.be/8K6Akk1Yiiw
>>16555071The Gnostics did not like the material world just because it was evil, but a cyclical imperfection, You see how people in these threads will try to refute you by saying that nature is beautiful but they forget to say that it is also decadent, nature live, reproduce but in the end always rots, wither and die. Not to mention the food chain. Adam was supposedly a being created in the likeness of Yahweh, but he needed to eat the fruit of the tree of life to remain immortal, how can a being similar to Yahweh need food if Yahweh doesn't eat? It is because he is not perferct, but also an imperfect being like Adam. When the serpent spoke to Eve, he said that if she and Adam ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, they would be like Yahweh, Gods, knowing good and evil, and so it was. When Yahweh realized this he himself admitted "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil" and expelled them from his Garden of Eden because he did not want divine competition since he is a selfish who wants to be the only God himself, while Serpent wants may we all be Gods.
>>16555071>Call me a GnosticI'm going to call you a retard. Gnosticism is lost to time.
>>16555627That makes Gnosticism awesome then
>>16556517Looking at the world today it would appear that God made the right calling booting us out, seeing how messed up humans are.I thank God I'm not God because Lord knows I'd be doing a poor job.
>>16555071XDddEbin drooll
>>16555071>all of the horrible and senseless misery and cruelty of this world, all of the agonies and tortures, the mutilation and sadism, with all of the slaughter and rape, children being abused and soldiers torn apart by dronesDon't forget the countless lies, deceptions and manipulations that go on daily. Just as bad, if not worse.
