So why exactly are Chinese and Norse lore so close? Three sacred beings, three heavens? Is it just the number three?
>>16798847>Three sacred beingsthere are dozens of sacred beings in heathenism>three heavens?there are as many heavens as there are gods, and then someSnorri Sturluson (the guy who wrote gylfaginning) was a christian who had no underlying familiarity with heathenism outside of what he read in eddic poetry. Meaning that if you read the poetic edda, you will know about as much about norse mythology as Snorri did. Why he numbered various heavens, and whether those heavens even exist, is not clear.
>good>bad>mid
>>16798956>there are dozens of sacred beings in heathenismThere are hundreds in Taoism. The Three Pure Ones and the Three High are in special positions.>there are as many heavens as there are gods, and then someAnd yet in both cases we see three set aside as special. Look again at the Pengu-Ymir and the Jade Emperor's story arc.
>>16798847>three produced all thingsErnest McClain made a compelling case that this statement was a reference to music theory (and this was a cosmology where ideas from music theory are the primary metaphor).Basically, it boils down to Pythagorean tuning, aka 3-limit tuning. The idea is the entire musical universe of notes and ratios is populated by the prime number 3.1/1 is the unison2/1 is the octave. Two notes in an octave relationship are the same note.3/2 is the perfect fifth.3/2 × 3/4 = 9/83/2 × 3/4 × 3/2 = 27/164/3 is the perfect fourth.4/3 × 4/3 = 16/94/3 × 4/3 × 2/3 = 32/27.Now you have all 7 diatonic notes (plus the octave), but you can keep going indefinitely just by multiplying with the prime number 3. Prime number 2 only gives us octaves, nothing new. Every musical note can be described by a power of 3/2 or 4/3.
>>16798847The Ancient North Eurasian pill is a hard one to swallow. Are you sure you wanna go down that path?
>>16799281Do you think music laws are subconscious or contributed consciously to other affairs like religion?>>16800016I'm in pretty deep. Show me what you got.
>>16799067>The Three Pure Ones and the Three High are in special positions.Not really, having three talking spirits seems like just a weird thing Snorri made up as part of his story. Also, as far as I'm aware, there is no reference to events in Snorri's gylfaginning in any other actual heathen source, meaning it could be a complete fanfic Snorri wrote, imitating dialog-based exposition dumps that show up in pagan poetry (see vafthruthnismal, alvissmal, fafnismal, etc.)>And yet in both cases we see three set aside as special.again, the "three heavens" thing is in all likelihood just fanfic. Snorri even butchers his description of the hall Gimle from voluspa, because he is transparently making shit up, and has no underlying familiarity with the source material.>Look again at the Pengu-YmirIt is interesting the overlap in how this Pangu figure's body was used to form the world like Ymir's, but I have to point out that the significance of Ymir's character is not that his body was used to create the world but that Odin was the one who did it. Ymir was born out of primordial chaos, and he himself was a creature of chaos. He asexually produced people from his body parts, which is highly transgressive of the natural order. It was Odin who took the formless chaos and imposed order on it.>Jade Emperor's story arc.I'm not familiar with who this is. Just from looking at your pic, it looks like you're likening him to Thor, and this demon who he fights to Surtr? To that I point out that Thor never fights Surtr, Freyr does, and loses, because he gave up his magical sword to woo a Jotunn woman. Thor is eager to fight the mithgarthsormar, and when he finally does, he kills it in only a single strike from his hammer, but drops dead of poisoning shortly thereafter. So he couldn't fight Surtr even if he wanted to.
precursor to Judaism in the form of goysloptianity. they could have adopted the chad and originalpilled dharmic path
>>16800131>Not reallyThey seem to be. They both show up in their respective story elements to interact with another figure through didactics. >having three talking spirits seems like just a weird thing Snorri made up as part of his story>Also, as far as I'm aware, there is no reference to events in Snorri's gylfaginning in any other actual heathen sourceSnorri insisted he did not. His sources are also explicitly given, so much so that you could not have missed over all of them if you had actually read the thing. It's like all those people complaining that Herodotus just accepted whatever people told him when every five pages or so he expresses doubt on something someone told him. The sources include the Sibyl's Prophecy, the Haleygjatal ("This son was named Saeming, and Norway’s kings, as well as its jarls and other important men of the kingdom, trace their descent to him, as it is told in Haleygjatal."- actual quote), quotes Bragi the Old, and several others. If you had even glanced at the material you'd see it is one of the most thoroughly cited of the period by far. It beats out even many classical sources. >imitating dialog-based exposition dumps that show up in pagan poetry (see vafthruthnismal, alvissmal, fafnismal, etc.)If you were going to cite anything else, that just makes it more apparent that this is probably authentic since it lines up with other sources.>Snorri even butchers his description of the hall Gimle from voluspa, because he is transparently making shit upWhat do you mean here? Which parts did you have beef with?
>but I have to point out that the significance of Ymir's character is not that his body was used to create the world but that Odin was the one who did itWell, if you read the picture you would see that the Jade Emperor did exactly what Odin did. He fashions the world out of Pangu in the same way Odin fashions from Ymir. The other similarity is that they both hide themselves away in a cave to gain wisdom to fight their future battles.>Just from looking at your pic, it looks like you're likening him to Thor, and this demon who he fights to Surtr? To that I point out that Thor never fights Surtr, Freyr does, and losesThis is the part about the story that is both confusing and yet lines up well. None of the Gods can defeat the demon that stirs against the heavens until the Jade Emperor shows up and kicks his ass. Now this cannot be Odin because Odin dies in the Norse poems- unless the Norse sources are mistaken on this point. Many suggest that Tyr was supposed to be the main overall deity, in this case Surtr kills Tyr and Odin (if he were the Jade Emperor) would simply kill Surtr and save the heavens using his wisdom. This would actually fit Odin's modus operandi better.
>>16800106Musical laws of the type under discussion are by no means subconscious. They require the active development and appreciation of some degree of formal music theory and the associated arithmetic.
>>16800256>If you had even glanced at the material you'd see it is one of the most thoroughly cited of the period by far.Sorry, I'm not referring generally to the historicity of King Gylfi, just the specific story where he travels to asgard, and is tricked by the gods.>If you were going to cite anything else, that just makes it more apparent that this is probably authentic since it lines up with other sources.No, no, what I'm saying is the actual format of gylfaginning as a dialog between Gylfi and the three spirits is an imitation of poems like fafnismal, which are explanations of aspects of norse mythology framed as being a dialog between two characters. Snorri drew information from lots of pagan poetry (voluspa most prominently) when writing gylfaginning, but he did not have any special insight into it that we in the 21st century reading those same poems do not. This feeds into my next point>What do you mean here? Which parts did you have beef with?He describes Gimle as the greatest level of heaven, and as being a structure thatched with gold, but voluspa, the source he is drawing from in saying this, explicitly says that there is a golden thatched hall, and that this hall is located in a region called gimle. The hall itself is never given a name. He blatantly just misread the second to last stanza of voluspa. He also makes a reference to gimle being inhabited by "light elves." Elves, for all intents and purposes, appear to be venerable ancestors. He's either confusing gimle with valhol, or he is knowingly asserting that they are one and the same. But gimle cannot be valhol, because voluspa tells us it becomes repopulated with living men after ragnarok, which means it has to be in midgard, not the heavens
>>16800288>He describes Gimle as the greatest level of heaven, and as being a structure thatched with gold, but voluspa, the source he is drawing from in saying this, explicitly says that there is a golden thatched hall, and that this hall is located in a region called gimle.Oh sure, yeah. He does a similar turnabout with his characters in the Prose Edda over in Heimskringla, which strips a lot of the mysticism out and makes Odin a central Asian warlord in the times of Rome which is much later than he implies in Prose Edda (although he sticks with central Asia as his base). >He blatantly just misread the second to last stanza of voluspa.Yes I see what you're saying, thank you.>But gimle cannot be valhol, because voluspa tells us it becomes repopulated with living men after ragnarok, which means it has to be in midgard, not the heavensI have to go back and read now but I thought the upper layers of heaven would be safe from Ragnarok and the elves survive along with Baldr and his brother in Hel, to rule with Thor's sons after the whole thing blows over. I could be fucking up here. It does explicitly say that they will rule over a new Midgard like you say, that I do recall more clearly.
>>16800106>I'm in pretty deep. Show me what you got.Between 40,000 and 30,000 years ago, there lived an Aurignacian group related to the ones found at Goyet/Sunghir/Kostënki, and an east Asian group related to Tianyuan Man. These populations shared about 10% of each other's ancestry, implying that they were descended from the same root population that diverged into European and East Asian hunter-gatherers. These Aurignacians migrated eastward and mixed with various tribes along the way. Around 24,000 years ago, the group to which the Mal'ta-Buret/Afontova Gora/Yana people belonged had consolidated into a unique population. Their ancestry was 70-80% Aurignacian-related and 20-30% Tianyuan-related, and these people, known as the Ancient North Eurasians occupied what's now known as Mongolia and south-central Siberia. Since they lived in the far north at the height of the ice age, I affectionately call them the Hyperboreans.During the Last Glacial Maximum, the dominant Aurignacian-related patrilineages associated with this group (C1) went extinct and were replaced by Tianyuan-related patrilineages (R and Q). The Ancient North Eurasians eventually diverged into three major populations, with some choosing to migrate westward, some choosing to stay put, and some choosing to migrate eastward. Eventually, after thousands of years of separation, these populations had developed into the Indo-Europeans, the Proto-Turks, and the Native Americans.Now that you know this, go read up on Indo-European, Turkic, and Native American mythology and see if you start noticing things. I'll give you some pointers to start off with; the "sky father" trope, the "thunder god slaying a giant serpent" trope, and the "hellhound that guides the dead to the underworld" trope are all present in the pagan mythos of these peoples, and there's a ton of disturbing similarities between the individual myths in question.
>>16801182>disturbing similaritiesdisturbing? how do they disturb you?
>>16801202Every culture has its own myths that address the question of how the world came to be, how mankind came to be, what happens after you die, etc. If you pay attention to the literary motifs in the mythology of all the peoples descended from the Ancient North Eurasians - specifically, the Indo-Europeans, the Altaic Turks, the Plains Indians (Iroquois, etc), and the Aztecs, among others - you'll notice that they share a ton of literary motifs. I won't spoonfeed you because that takes the fun out of comparative mythology. However, the most disturbing part is how the Altaic Turks have a creation myth that's eerily similar to that of the Sumerians.If all of these stories really are related, then chances are, a lot of the mythology in Eurasia and the Americas was inspired by that of a single group of people who lived in Siberia at the height of the ice age.
>Three sacred beingsWhich ones? Ymir, Auðumbla, Buri, Borr, Bestla, Odin, Vili, Vé, Norðri, Suðri, Austri, Vestri, Sól, Máni, Nótt, Dagr, Dellingr, Rán, Ægir, Blóðughadda, Bylgja, Dröfn, Dúfa, Hefring, Himinglæva, Hrönn, Kólga, Uðr, Niðhöggr, Dáinn, Dvalinn, Duneyrr, Duraþhrór, Vafþrúðnir, Loki, Hel, Baldr, Bragi, Forseti, Freyr, Heimdallr, Hermóðr, Hœnir, Lóðurr, Móði, Magni, Máni, Mimir, Meili, Njörðr, Oðr, Thor, Týr, Ullr, Váli, Viðarr, Bil, Beyla, Dís, Eir, Frigg, Fulla, Gefjun, Gersemi, Gerðr, Gná, Gullveig, Hlín, Hnoss, Idis, Ilmr, Iðunn, Irpa, Lofn, Nanna, Njörun, Urðr, Verðandi, Skuld, Rán, Rindr, Sága, Sif, Sigyn, Sjöfn, Snotra, Syn, Þrúðr, Þorgerðr Hölgabrúðr, Vár or Vör?>three heavens?Which ones? Álfheimr, Ásgarðr, Miðgarðr, Jötunheimr, Múspellsheimr, Svartálfaheimr, Niflheimr or Vanaheimr?
