...didn't sign Ribbentrop-Molotov and attacked France first?>Germany attacks France>Poland is surprised. The military is not mobilized and ready for war, which makes it less likely for them to attack Germany>uninterrupted and even better prepared, Germany beats France>Poland is faced with an ultimatum: either fight Germany, or join forces with them and Italy and attack the Soviets - they choose the later>because a German-Soviet pact wasn't signed, Japan doesn't align themselves with the Soviets and cooperates with Germany, Italy and Poland>Barbarossa goes better than it did in reality, due to Poland's cooperation and the front line at the start of the operation being closer to Moscow (on the Polish-Soviet border, instead of the Molotov Line)>Japan might be more willing to attack the Soviet far-east, being in an alliance with Germany, Poland and Italy, and seeing the success of Barbarossa >Stalingrad get's taken by the Axis, and the Soviet Union follows, due to destroyed morale and overwhelming attacking force (at this point Japan almost certainly attacks the far-east)>Moscow is taken, and the Soviet Union falls apartThe US is a wild card. Would they join the war, had Japan not attacked Pearl Harbor? The other Axis countries would most probably explained them that this attack is the most retarded idea in the universe.
>>16801175Here's the Molotov Line:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_LineThat's some big ass area, saves the Axis billions worth of resources, and soldiers.
>>16801175Earth would be a Nazi one world Gov.
>>16801175And here's how close were the Polish-Japanese relations right before WWII:If cards were played right by the European Axis countries, maybe they could sway Japan to abandon the southern expansion and to join them in attacking the Soviets from the very beginning.
>>16801175>Poland is surprised. The military is not mobilized and ready for war, which makes it less likely for them to attack GermanyThat's a huge gamble. Goebbels would have to asign a special unit to keep convincing the Poles that they don't want to attack them.
>>16801185All races would be extinct; Save and Except: the master race. World Peace
>>16801185The Alamo's Relics would be inside The Alamo and everyone would Remember The Alamo!
>>16801175The United States had stopped selling oil to Japan and requested that it withdraw from China and the European colonies to resume its sale, Japanese defeat was inevitable.
>>16801175Alamoposter wouldn't have to keep posting about the Alamo any longer.
>>16801253Yeah, that's a big issue. Maybe they could work out some agreament with the US that if they commit to attacking Russia and don't press forward in China, maybe the States would be willing to continue the trade. But even if they do the embargo, they still had some reserves. Maybe it would be enough just for Germany, Poland and Italy to take Moscow?
>>16801234What could have been.
>>16801188>Yes my Japanese friends. You must attack and move through the frozen hellhole that is Siberia instead of going after the resource-rich East Indies or the weakened Chinese ( which I am modernising militarily and hates the fuck out of you for taking Manchuria )
>>168013311. Japan recognized the USSR as the biggest enemy, why else would they sign the Anti-Comintern Pact?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Comintern_Pact2. Japan was aware of the natural resources in Russia, so that's another incentive. 3. They had already a plan to attack the Soviets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokushin-ron
>>16801185It already is
>>168013471) effectively useless after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact 2)China/Southeast Asia have more resources than the whole of Siberia itself offered 3)Effectively abandoned after they got bitchslapped in Khalkin Gol
Poland was a wannabe empire country that invaded soviet union after WW1, they wouldn't stand still after seeing germany borders wide open, and shit like danzig would make an alliance highly unstable.
Every nationalist is haunted by the belief that the past can be altered. He spends part of his time in a fantasy world in which things happen as they should – in which, for example, the Spanish Armada was a success or the Russian Revolution was crushed in 1918 – and he will transfer fragments of this world to the history books whenever possible.
>>16801388>1) effectively useless after the Molotov-Ribbentrop PactRead again the title and first sentence of this thread.>2)China/Southeast Asia have more resources than the whole of Siberia itself offered But again, the USSR is a political enemy, which sooner or later might attack them. SEA isn't. >3)Effectively abandoned after they got bitchslapped in Khalkin GolMore preparation, and cooperation with Germany, Italy and Poland would make the whole endeavour way more viable.
>>16801462>[Poland] invaded soviet union after WW1Russia was the aggressor. Poland had just established itself on the map. >they wouldn't stand still after seeing germany borders wide openGermany most probably would've kept some troops in the back, just like the Soviets kept a sizeable army close to Manchuria to keep the Japs in check.
>>16801501Japan distanced itseld from the Anti-Comintern Pact ( which was signed in the first place because they perceived it as an alliance against the USSR ) after Germany decided to enter into an aprochement with the USSR. Soit was effectively useless. Even more so after they replaced it with the Tripartite Act which put their enemy no.1 as the United States than the USSR.>but m-muh Soviet Union takes precedence No amount of anti-Sovietfaggotry is going to replace the fact that Japan already have their eyes set on China than the fucking USSR considering that China had more to offer than whatever the fuck Siberia has to offer. If anything, part ofnthe reason why the Anti-Comintern Pact kind off failed was because of that.>Muh preparation/cooperationMeans fuck all when the Imperial Japanese Army barely fielded tanks and resources needed to modernize their army was effectively split between the Army and the Navy ( who have their own personal goals over where Japan should go ). You may as well pretend that Germany had the industrial capability to conduct their own version of the lend lease that the USA has.
>>16801175>retarded fanfiction posts not bannedSomeone needs to cut the pay of jannies again.
>>16801648>retarded fanfiction posts not bannedRite, we need more threads about the genetics of Iberians.
>>16801175I just had this thought. There were around 6 million Russians in the far east. If Japan took over those lands, they could relocate a big portion of those people (1,2, maybe even 3 million) to Japan. They could for a white Japanese elite in various fields (industry, sports, science, politics), or create some beautiful hapas.
>>16801567Preparation includes synthetic oil production and improvement on tank and other equipment's quality.I know they had their eyes set on China, but if they don't destroy the Soviets, it is a matter of time when they come after Japan, and I'm sure they understood that. China was an open wound that had to be dealt with.
>>16801175The biggest obstables are these:>Poland can backstab Germany while they are dealing with the French >The US can cut Japan's oil supply, like they did in reality The first one can be dealt with easily - keep some forces behind on the border. Also, I don't know how much the Polish population wanted/didn't want war.The second one is a gamble. The jews would probably force FDR to impose the embargo, sooner or later.
>>16802008>Synthetic OilJapan already has the know-how to make synthetic oil. They couldn't generate enough because 1) they skipped out on transitioning from small scale production to large scale production and 2) The materials and chemicals needed to create such a transition can only come from the US ( their enemy ) and Germany ( their ally from another side of the contient who is going to be blockaded by the British ). Do you see the problem now?>Muh Tanks and EquipmentJapan's Tank Doctrine was that of infantry support which is why they were lightly armed and armored in the first place. And considering that the navy won in the end and got what they wanted, their research into mechanized warfare on land slowed down terribly. Heavier tanks would be a nightmare to be fed because your logistics can only be so stretched, especially in Asia and the Pacific.
>>16802122>Do you see the problem now?That problem could be solved by having more time. And trading those materials from Germany is not a problem, because they could've done it before the war in Europe starting.The tank doctrine could also have been adjusted, if the cooperation between Germany and Japan was closer before start of the war.And stop using this "muh" expression. The mocking attempt doesn't work and you're just making yourself look like a teenager.
>>16801249folks won't remember the alamo no matter what is there
>>16802941the fuck is this nazi
>>16802918I don't respect you. You're a faggoty armchair general and I don't give a fuck about what you think of me. For all I care, you're just some retard who's really angsty over how Germany and Japan didn't fuck each other hard enough before spitroasting the USSR.Honestly, I accept your concession. Next time, do some actual research on wikipedia or on fucking reddit before pushing your retarded fanfic here.
>>16801175Poland not attacking might work. Many people don't know why they decided to ally themselves with France and UK, despite the great German-Polish relations.When Piłsudski died, Józef Beck took over the foreign policy.His reasoning was that if Germany is encircled between Britain, France and Poland, he won't start the war.Did he forget about the Soviets? No, he got fale reports from Tadeusz Kobylański, who was a Soviet spy, who told him that the USSR won't attack Poland.
>>16802972Lmao look at this sperg chimping out. You're either a jew or a sensitive leftist who's seething from hearing anything vaguely positive about Hitler and Germany of that period.
>>16803225NTA but kill yourself you thirdie fuck. Ywnbw.
>>16802982>>16801175So in other words, Poland completely fucked the Axis's position in the war, and it was all for nothing.Good job! At least you're not speaking German.
>>16804342Both Poland and Germany. The first one miscalculated, and Hitler was a terrible polititan. If your victory condition is an alliance with a weaker country, you do everything you can to make the alliance happen.The september campaign was a huge waste of resources, didn't need to happen.
>>16801175The German army wasn't really ready for France in 1939. The technical improvements and combat experience from Poland were big factors in what was already an amazingly unlikely victory for them.
>>16801175the double surprise retard maneuverinteresting
>>16804468>what was already an amazingly unlikely victory for themThe Germans had logistical problems already there, didn't they?
>>16801175Dude, all of your third reich fanfics can only end in one of three ways. >Soviets invade and occupy all of Europe, turning the Cold War into a much nastier thing than it was in RL>In 1946 the USAAF carpet nukes every German city and preforms tactical strikes on all German military bases>Both of the aboveAlways remember, your favourite HOI4 mod/campaign is not a historical source.
>>16801933That would've been dope.
>16804488>tripfag>has nothing meaningful to say and just makes garbage postsevery fucking time
>implying OP has either
>>16801648>>16804599You aren't good at history if you never contemplate alternate scenarios.
Nazi alt history fanfics never make any sense
>>16805683>t. can only look at past events through hindsight
>they wouldve won if they just had... more prep timeSounds like batman shit.
>>16802982>great German-Polish relations Kek. When? 1000 years before? Poland has been allied with France since Napoleon. And after WW1 it was their main ally.
>>16805891>When?When Pilsudski was around. Have you even heard this name?
>>16805651Exactly. Alternative history is fun and creative. Fuck all those who blindly seethe at it.
>>16801175The reality of the situation is that German proposed peace and a Polish state with Britain and France multiple times but they denied him.They wanted blood, they declared war on Germany.
>>16801933Total Japanese Hapanisation - the ultimate eugenics program.
>>16806586Germany wanted Gdansk I believe. Or a highway to it, or something. Can someone shine some light onto the Polish-German pre-war negotiations?
>>16801175You’re an idiot. Poland was ready for war and would have attacked.
>>16801523>Russia was the aggressor. Poland had just established itself on the map.The Soviet union was empirically not the aggressor. This is like when Turkey pretends they were the victims of the "Turkish war of independence".
>>16801175>and attacked France first?Probably would have gotten clobbered by the French. People take it for granted that the French surrendered very fast, but it really was the perfect storm. The Panzer corps were still in development and Germany had fewer tanks than France. If they had even less than they did the French might have been able to put up a decent fight.
>>16806989See: >>16802982Poland had just established themselves on the map, they wanted to avoid war.
>>16807020The Bolsheviks wanted to spread communism, Poland wanted to be left alone.
>>16807020>empiricallynot how you use that word, dumbass
>>16805765>dude....what if.....Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan weren't Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan!?!?!?!?!
>>16806851Sure.>Hey poleshits>Wanna have like an alliance or something? In return for Danzig, which you don't event own and can't legally give over, and an exterritorial highway which'd cut you off from your only window to the world through which all your trade flows thus turning you into a vassal state of ours>In return you can have some worthless lands in the east full of starving hohols. That is if we even go to war with the Soviets with whom we've been having fruitful relations for years but ignore that, we're totally against the communists!>You can trust us bro, just ignore what just happened with Czechoslovakia where we promised to leave them alone then promptly annexed the entire country after threatening their PM with a bombing of their capital city if they didn't accept which caused him to have a heart attack>Also ignore the fact that we've broken basically every word we've previously given and broke every international treaty we've previously signed>DO FUCKING NOT read the bible-tier book our glorious leader wrote (where his escapades in Münich of 1919 are missing for totally no reason, don't look into it!) where he calls you subhumans all the time and clearly stated he wants to take over your country, genocide 90% of the population and turn the remaining 10% into illiterate slaves, colonize your lands with the germans, steal your art and even children so we can germanize them>Just forget we've been relentlessly waging a trade war against your country for the past couple of years>Ignore all the literal 5th column terrorist activities the german minority is currently doing>Ignore the fact that our economy is a giant meme, we're set to go bankrupt in early 1940 and literally the only way out is war>If you accept our offer we totally won't come back in a month and ask you for the rest of Silesia, next week for the rest of Prussia, next day for Posen, next hour for the rest of your country>DUDE WHY WONT YOU ALLY WITH US WHAT THE FUCK?!
>>16808312>Hey poleshitsCome on, you can get more creative than that.And also, didn't read.
>>16808131idk what if they weren't? how do you think events would have played out differently in '39 if Hitler had not seized power and Japan never invaded China?>bro who the fuck cares bro that's not what happened you fucking nerd just talk about something real bro like [sportsball] why do you make shit up bro?ok retard
>>16808593Worthless seethepost
>>16808312>(where his escapades in Münich of 1919 are missing for totally no reason, don't look into it!)what did H-man get up to here?
>>16808794Communist political commissar who worked under three jewish communists and a member of the Bavarian Red Army in which he fought against the incoming right wing Freikorps.Now you know why the entirety of 1919 is missing from Mein Kampf.
>>16805651>>16805978Alt history can be fun. The problem is that YOU are bad at history, and your alt-scenarios are full of childlike ignorance.
>>16808059>>16802982This was written by an idiot. Poland wanted war, Poland goaded Germany into war, and Poland thought they could win a war. Poland itself was gearing up to attack Germany in 1940, and was hoping to draw France and Britain into an entente.
>>16808312>the bible-tier book our glorious leader wrote>where he calls you subhumans all the time and clearly stated he wants to take over your country, genocide 90% of the population and turn the remaining 10% into illiterate slavesLmao Mein Kampf does not say any of that anywhere. Are you schizophrenic?
>>16801375Ah yes, the nazi one world gov importing millions of brown people into the west to replace the white population.
>>16810224i'm not OP
>>16808822interesting, thanks for the QRD
this is for gramps
>>16808746Do you even know why or how Hitler got into power in the first place or why Japan became the shitshow it was prior to 1936? Or are you giving us further proof of your retardation and showing us why Alt-His fags have the iq of a room temperature? Do you even understand why they eventually went on to do what they did or do you just enjoy being a retarded cock gobbling faggot who gets his sources from pop-history circlejerks or Paradox Memes? The problem with alt-his retards like you is that you never ground your stupid fanfic in the actual reality that was happening during that point and just shit out crap you think fulfills your condition to necessiate your scenario and expect us to validate it. You want to be accepted here so badly but you never even put as much work as haplofags and actual posters who put effort into being historyfags, more or less into your fanfics to make them actually viable. Go fuck yourself, you're part of the reason why this board has gone into shit.
>>16810224Whenever someone critisizes other theories without explained why they're wrong, those comments can be full ignored. >You don't understand how x works >You have no idea about xJust shut up.
>>16802049>Also, I don't know how much the Polish population wanted/didn't want warPoles very much didn't want war. They had just reestabilished themselves as an independent country only 2 decades prior and have barely repelled a Soviet invasion immediately after that. They were also still having a shitload of internal political and economic problems. That being said, both the dislike towards the Germans and nationalistic tendencies were strong, so who can say what would happen Polish government at the time was generally very much aware that it exists in a very fragile position between two more powerful countries with imperialistic tendencies and that clearly aligning themselves with either of them would result in making the other hostile. The plan was to try balancing between them, keeping the relations as peaceful as possible without harm to Polish national interests. This obviously not only didn't work out, but strongly backfired, resulting in Ribbentrop-Molotov, i.e. both countries ganging up on Poland before going for each other's throats
>>16811860>The plan was to try balancing between them, keeping the relations as peaceful as possible without harm to Polish national interests. This obviously not only didn't work out, but strongly backfired, resulting in Ribbentrop-Molotov,The plan to balance the 2 powers was good, obvious even. The execution was horrible.What they should have done was signing non-agression pacts, or neutrality pacts. By definition, no hostile intentions could have been drawn from those actions. Poland however decided to enter the Entente, which had to be taken by the Germans as hostile towards them. Because of that, Ribbentrop-Molotov happened.That was the crucial, deadly mistake that Poland made.
>>16811964>the EntenteI mean the Allied powers.
>>16811964There is truth to that, but do you really think that both Soviets and Germans would just allow Poland to exist unbothered as a neutral nation, especially with the heavily expansionist politics that both powers had? I think even in best scenario Poles would sooner or later be forced to either ally with one of them or be invaded. And with the geopolitical position that Poland has, it would also likely become a frontline of the war, taking the majority of collateral damage So yeah, I agree that joining the Allies was reckless and could have been seen as an act of hostility, but then again I fully understand why Poles preferred to seek alliances rather than staying neutral and hoping for the best, especially given their history of conflict with and occupation by both Germans and Russians
>>16801175Spain should had been incorporated to the III Reich. Spain has right now a huge dysgenic problem and needs an eugenic solution.
>>16811655>Do you even know why or how Hitler got into power in the first place or why Japan became the shitshow it was prior to 1936?I have a casual knowledge of one and prior to this thread absolutely no idea on the other.>everything elsesorry what-if's trigger your 'tisms, but you should try to go outside sometimes, sounds like you have problems talking to people without seething uncontrollablynot OP btw, just an anon (previously) lurking in an interesting thread
>>16812040>do you really think that both Soviets and Germans would just allow Poland to exist unbothered as a neutral nation,At The start of the war, yes. The USSR's army wasn't mobilized and ready for war, and Hitler had his eyes on France.Later thou, yes, Poland would probably have to join someone, most probably Germany. But it would happen as an ally, not a vasal state.
>>16812313NTA >>16811655 has a point too. Most Alt-Hist autists just rely on pop history-tier knowledge of WW2 and just pretend that there wasn't anything preventing their desired fantasy from happening. The worst part about it is that no one challenges them and you end up with retardation not grounded in reality.
>>16801175Even nationalist China fight both Soviet and Japan
>>16801347Correct >>16801331You forgot frozen bite contribute red army casualties
>>16807020>After stealing Hungarian landYes, Turkey did nothing wrong
>>16808312
>>16805891>Saxony (German)>French puppetDuchy of Poland different from dictator rulers a Polish Republic.
>>16812356Get out of here with your low IQ bait chimpouts. This is a thread for educated people.
